S04.E08: To Have and To Hold

[Drogo]

The three couples who met and married as strangers tackle emotional and physical intimacy issues effecting their marriages. Lillian and Tom meet with relationship expert Rachel DeAlto; Nick and Sonia visit a tantric healer; Heather and Derek evaluate the future.

[Drogo]

This is an episode thread for discussing things that happened in this episode.  Many posters in the episode threads prefer to remain unspoiled re: social media posts, Unfiltered, Confessions, etc.   This is not a lot to ask, so please follow the rules.  

If you want to post any reference to something you heard outside of the actual episode, please take it to the appropriate thread.  

[Neurochick]

Damn Heather.  

But I feel for her though, because the way this was presented, the pressure was all on her.

I also feel for Lily; a good friend went through a health issue recently and her husband, who she's been with for years, didn't want to deal with her.  

Nick needs to send his dogs to obedience school.  What if he were with a woman who loved dogs, but then they had a baby and his wife worried about the baby being around the dogs?  No, Nick shouldn't get rid of the dogs, but obedience school isn't a bad idea IMO.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Neurochick

[Enero]

Heather asked for a divorce. I'm stunned. NOT. I'm glad she ended it. There was no point in continuing with that fiasco of a marriage. That said why did we have to get shots of them at home after the decision was made? It was pointless. 

The "conversation" between Sonia and Nick about their fight was just odd. Actually it wasn't a conversation at all just a bunch of stuff edited out only leaving in a few "um" "yeahs", awkward shots of Nick and Sonia before finally ending the conversation with Nick and Sonia saying they're still learning about each other. Oook. Unfortunately the audience hasn't learned anything about what they learned about each other. All we saw were a bunch of weird edits in an attempt to create drama that wasn't there. 

All that said Nick and Sonia are PAINFUL to watch. He pretty much said in his conversation with Rachel that he's not attracted to Sonia. I was baffled when Rachel told Sonia there's a spark with Nick.

Lastly, I don't believe for one second that Sonia is actually attracted enough to Nick to want sex from him.  I think she mainly wants him to be attracted to her, desperately, even if she's not really attracted to him. Anything else would be humiliating to her. 

I can't believe I'm going to say this but I actually liked the work that Rachel did with Tom and Lily. If the show was truly about real marriage instead of staged drama it would be interesting. Surprisingly I think these two MIGHT have a shot. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by Enero

[Neurochick]

Why are we seeing Heather getting ready for work and Derek in bed?  Who cares at this point?  They're talking like they were together for decades not two weeks.  

I wonder though, if they weren't allowed to say they'd divorced.  Damn, that must have been weird.  I wonder how they managed that?

[WichitaStateShock]

3 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Why are we seeing Heather getting ready for work and Derek in bed?  Who cares at this point?  They're talking like they were together for decades not two weeks.  

I wonder though, if they weren't allowed to say they'd divorced.  Damn, that must have been weird.  I wonder how they managed that?

I don't think they are allowed to spill it. That would be soooooo awkward. However, I don't understand why they are still following them. I haven't learned anything new. It's all rehashed things. 

[deannanikki]

Oh boy, I haven't posted here in awhile.

Heather and Derek: I'm so glad they called it quits. There was no way I could see them moving in together. I read the comments from people live-tweeting on Twitter and I was put off by how many people were blindly defending Derek. Heather is far from perfect, but damn. I found the shots of them after the decision were unnecessary as well. 

I also hate all of you that pointed out Lillian's "Me and Tom" tic. It's hard for me to ignore it now. Haha

Edited September 14, 2016 by deannanikki

[Gem 10]

Wow!  What a surprise .. NOT !  Those experts really did a good job matching Heather & Derek.  She was done on Day 2.   I think it was something more than the smoking.  She couldn't stand him; it was so obvious.  I'd like to see the questions on the applications.

Sonia - Men "HATE" confrontation.  They cringe when they have to talk about "feelings."  Most of the time when they apologize, they don't even know for what.  If Nick isn't at least a little affectionate now, will he ever be?  Three weeks in and nothing.  Weird for a guy .. No?  But the again, he did say he didn't pick her the

usual way with attraction, so I guess he has to learn to like or even love her.  I love Sonia, but I wish she would not end her sentences with that question voice.

After 3 weeks, Lily should not be focusing on children yet.  Don't scare the guy off .. He's still getting to know you.  Calm down.

These exercises are a joke.  These experts are a joke.  

[okerry]

"Where's the strangest place you've ever had sex?"

Nick: (immediately) "In the restroom of a public pool."

Oh, my. Nick, Nick, Nick . . . 

[Straycat80]

Not surprise Heather did not want to stay married. It was pointless to keep showing Derek and Heather after they decided to get divorced. And I don't know why they acted so heartbroken, they were only together for two whole weeks and on a reality show to boot! I also don't like how it was edited to make it look like it was Heathers fault that the marriage didn't work out. 

Nick acts like he's a virgin. Or he's just not into Sonia physically, he just wants to be friends. They are awkward together. No spark. That game they played was painful to watch, he seemed to be just going through the motions. If Sonia gets to the point where she really, really wants sex I think she's just going to have to jump him. 

Lily seemed really insecure this episode. Tom is acting like he cares for her, even loves her already , he said he'd stand by her when she has her surgery,  I don't know what else Lily wants him to do or say. 

[Straycat80]

Why is the tantric sex therapist talking sooooo slooooow? 

[Empress1]

Heather & Derek. That "OK, bye" at the end of their meeting with Pastor Calvin pretty much sums it up. If this weren't on TV, I bet Heather wouldn't even tell people she's been married before - she looks like she wants to wash her hands of this completely. They will never speak again. I felt sad for both of them, particularly when they each were talking about how they hoped to find love eventually. When Derek said maybe he just was the type of person who's meant to be alone, I cringed in sympathy. The scenes of them at home were a little much though, just extraneous. Are we going to see the aftermath with them in future eps? I'm not interested.

They all kept saying "I haven't seen you since the wedding." So ... two weeks. It's not unusual for me to go two weeks without seeing friends - and they were all out of town for half that time.

It irks me when the dumper asks the other person if they're going to be ok seconds after they do the dumping. It feels like they're looking for absolution.

I thought Sonia looked great in her red, white & blue dress she wore to the wine tasting (hold the glass by the stem, Sonia!). The sunflower was sweet and they looked like they had some fun at the tasting. 

11 minutes ago, Enero said:

[Nick] pretty much said in his conversation with Rachel that he's not attracted to her. 

He did. Or at least that he's not as attracted to her as he has been to women in his past. At least he acknowledged that he likes her curves though. She's just going to have to make a clear first move. Slip him some tongue and grope him a little, Sonia.

Tom and Lily do seem happy. 

A lot of drinking this ep. I think both the couples had wine in every scene.

[deannanikki]

Tom and Lily: Oh please, let this couple work out....

Nick and Sonia: I think they'll work out.......as friends. I cringe whenever I watch them.

[wovenloaf]

Episode 8 and it's only week 3 of the marriage? Yeesh, this is dragging. 

Nick isn't into Sonia at all... he basically told the expert he's trying to force himself to be attracted to her. 

Lily annoys me. I can't really explain... Almost like she's always trying too hard to say and do the things she thinks a "grown ass woman" would. 

[Enero]

25 minutes ago, okerry said:

"Where's the strangest place you've ever had sex?"

Nick: (immediately) "In the restroom of a public pool."

Oh, my. Nick, Nick, Nick . . . 

I know right! I immediately thought if true, this was with a man a prostitute or both.

24 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

Nick acts like he's a virgin. Or he's just not into Sonia physically, he just wants to be friends. They are awkward together. No spark. That game they played was painful to watch, he seemed to be just going through the motions. If Sonia gets to the point where she really, really wants sex I think she's just going to have to jump him. 

 

I really don't think Nick has any sexual experience but is also not attracted to Sonia. The tantric exercise showed that Sonia is a sexual being and at least has some experience, Nick not so much. Listen to what the therapist said when Nick asked about his energy. She stopped short of telling him that he had no energy unlike Sonia who was smoldering. 

Quote

 

Lily seemed really insecure this episode. Tom is acting like he cares for her, even loves her already , he said he'd stand by her when she has her surgery,  I don't know what else Lily wants him to do or say.

I think it's very easy for Lily to be sexual with Tom and embrace their physical connection but building an emotional connection is more difficult for her. To connect to him in that way means that she's putting herself at great risk to be hurt. Like she said they've only known each other for a couple of weeks and now she has to have major surgery that might require him to take care of her. She didn't know how he would take that and even though he said he would be there, that's difficult to believe from someone you just met who you know nothing about. I think the only thing Tom can do at this point is prove his words through his actions by supporting and taking care of her before, during and after the surgery. He does that and Lily's insecurities will begin to fade. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by Enero

[Nowhere]

I feel like the tantra woman should have told them what to do and then let them do it instead of putting herself in the mix. She did the gazing with Sonia, turned Her lesbian lol, and then she faced Nick and did something with him. Even when she let them do an exercise together she was still right behind them touching them. I don't know much about it but I thought the point was to let Sonia and Nick get more intimate, not teach them how to have a threesome. I didn't like it. I wouldn't mind tantra myself but not with another woman involved. 

[humbleopinion]

Do you think Nick had a slip of the tongue(pun intended) when he revealed the strangest place he had sex?

The strangest place for Nick to have sex...a vagina.

Edited September 14, 2016 by humbleopinion
spelling

[Nowhere]

Lily seemed very uncomfortable talking to her friend. She says they grew up together and her opinion is important but it seemed like she was actually intimidated by her or maybe embarrassed about the relationship with Tom. It was a very weird interaction. Put it this way, if my friend was talking to me like Sonia was talking to her friend, I'd feel like she was lying, and I know Sonia isn't lying. She and Tom are happy right now so why was she so closed off when talking to her best friend? Maybe she was expecting ridicule. It makes me wonder how good of friends they actually are.

[Adeejay]

I find Lily’s thought process rather interesting.  She claims she is afraid of opening up to Tom, because she is scared of getting hurt.  However, she doesn’t seem to have a problem sleeping with him. 

I hope they don't intend to treat us to Heather’s soliloquies and Derek’s moping for the remainder of the season. 

[Enero]

10 minutes ago, Adeejay said:

I find Lily’s thought process rather interesting.  She claims she is afraid of opening up to Tom, because she is scared of getting hurt.  However, she doesn’t seem to have a problem sleeping with him. 

 

Well sex doesn't always mean love or opening up emotionally. Sometimes sex is just sex. I do find it interesting though to hear that type of compartmentalization coming from a woman. It's been my experience from friends and my own relationships that women oftentimes equate sex with love while men are more like sex is just sex nothing more. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by Enero

[jamblastx]

Heather/Grandmaster Whine - Oh what a shock...please FYI....no matter how long you teased and even amping up the dramatic music to 11, there is not one person who was even remotely surprised at Heather's decision.  Pastor McJudgy is the worst...acting as if this sham reality TV show marriage was something that was being hastily thrown away and reiterating time and time again that the divorce will be on their permanent record.  Webster's will now have these two as a definition for annulment.  And Derek, if you cannot even look at yourself in the mirror with your blazed red eyes and not take into account as to why she would want to get divorced, then yes you are correct, you are destined to be alone.  And stop bitching that she made a 'hasty' decision because you know what was an even hastier decision?  The two of you saying 'yes' at the altar three seconds after meeting one another.  There was no need to go on

Tom/Lily -   I would be shocked at this point if they don't stay together as the seemingly are saying all the right things that a 'normal' couple would be doing.  I still get a non-genuine creepy vibe from him but I don't know, maybe I was wrong about him and he is a genuinely good guy.  OK was Lily's meeting with her friend, the most awkward and staged conversation ever?  And why would Lily be upset that this friend thought that getting into an arranged marriage for television a bad idea?  What friend in their right mind would tell them that this was a completely sound decision especially given the show's track record.

Nickzzzzz/Sonia? - holy crap these two are boring...'maybe it was the Jack Daniels talking but I said boobs and booty to my wife'....whooooaaaaa.....hardcore!!!  Let's face it, his comments about that he did not choose her which is why the attraction has been slow is really 'I am just not sexually attracted to her at all'.  These two could be good friends but that's it.  And her self-doubt and clear uncomfortableness is not helping in the attraction either.  And please Sonia...for the love of god please stop saying the phrase 'I am deathly afraid of dogs'....we get it...you told us...but even a runaway freight train has to stop at some point.

[Lily247]

11 minutes ago, Adeejay said:

I find Lily’s thought process rather interesting.  She claims she is afraid of opening up to Tom, because she is scared of getting hurt.  However, she doesn’t seem to have a problem sleeping with him. 

 

I think some people have the ability to compartmentalize (sp?) sex. Like they can have sex with someone without much emotions. For example, some couples have "hate sex." I think they waited like 2 days after meeting to have sex. I'm not sure about anyone else but I dont think you can develop an emotional bond with your whole heart and soul after 2 days. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by Matias130

[humbleopinion]

Lily may not have married her Mr. Right...but she's okay with having sex with Mr. Right Now, especially since she is Mrs. Right Now.

Married with benefits... wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

Edited September 14, 2016 by humbleopinion
more nonsense

[BeatrixK]

Anyone else think the Tantric Coach and Derek should hook up -- because, she clearly...uh...'smokes' too.  That girl was baked!

[Madding crowd]

I thought Lilly was acting like she found out she had cancer or something. I've had two shoulder surgeries and of course no one wants to have a surgery at all but it's not a major surgery. I would consider major surgery to be on an organ. And she appears to be able to lift her arms so I'm thinking maybe it will be arthroscopic surgery. I can see why she wouldn't want to be a burden, but you are usually home the same day and just have to do therapy. Just seemed way too dramatic.

I think the show wants to 'punish' Heather because she refused to continue on with the sham marriage. They were showing Derek in a much more favorable light. I wish we knew what went on there but we probably never will.

They done the tantric  thing on the Bachelor show and it involves the two people, not two people plus an extra. I thought it was weird that the woman was insisting on Sonia looking deep into her eyes-its not about you lady! Tom still seems like he has zero interest in Sonia and I also wondered about the public restroom thing (at a pool-yuk). He keeps putting on a persona of not wanting to hurt her feelings but who goes into marriage sure they are going to hurt the other person? He seems to be saying he has no intention of having a regular marriage with Sonia and is waiting out the six weeks. Sonia still seems really nice and friendly to me. 

[EverybodyIsACritic]

51 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

Do you think Nick had a slip of the tongue(pun intended) when he revealed the strangest place he had sex?

The strangest place for Nick to have sex...a vagina.

How am I supposed to explain the wine sprayed all over my iPad and the surrounding area?  Vagina, indeed!

Derek's friend John Pierre seems to be the only one of "us" that is surprised about the divorce.  I can see Heather on the job, never giving a full can of soda to any passenger.  I was very uncomfortable with Derek at times-I think that Schwaggy has a temper.

If Sonia ever wants another orgasm, she probably needs to stick with the tantric thing.  If anyone wants to get high, the instructor sounded like she was on The Good Shit.

[humbleopinion]

Nick was the willing participant of the pool toilet liaison.

[Evil Queen]

1 minute ago, EverybodyIsACritic said:

How am I supposed to explain the wine sprayed all over my iPad and the surrounding area?  Vagina, indeed!

Derek's friend John Pierre seems to be the only one of "us" that is surprised about the divorce.  I can see Heather on the job, never giving a full can of soda to any passenger.  I was very uncomfortable with Derek at times-I think that Schwaggy has a temper.

If Sonia ever wants another orgasm, she probably needs to stick with the tantric thing.  If anyone wants to get high, the instructor sounded like she was on The Good Shit.

LMAO 

I can imagine Derek was spinning "stories" left and right about what happened. I wouldn't doubt he has a temper of some kind....especially when he hasn't had his morning high. SMH

Since I just read along and will watch tomorrow, WOW on the Nick thing. Sorry but if that is what he said and he had sex in a public pool bathroom...first eeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwww and second, it is very telling right there about him IMO. 

[Snarklepuss]

1 hour ago, humbleopinion said:

Do you think Nick had a slip of the tongue(pun intended) when he revealed the strangest place he had sex?

The strangest place for Nick to have sex...a vagina.

Yeah, when I heard Nick say "The rest room at a public pool" I finished the sentence with "At the YMCA".

[EverybodyIsACritic]

1 minute ago, Snarklepuss said:

Yeah, when I heard Nick say "The rest room at a public pool" I finished the sentence with "At the YMCA".

I will now come clean and admit that I finished the sentence... "With George Michael!"

[Kareem]

Laughing my hiney off here at the comments.  

The only surprise tonight was turtle head Tom of the creepy vibe fame was very nice to Lily, I thought.   This guy, in a new relationship, very fond of a big ole bus, not fond of pooping babies and what not  managed to say clearly and convincingly that he was there for her for her surgery and in this for the long-haul. I was impressed with both his kindness and his commitment.  

[Zanne505]

I can't believe Heather bailed. She didnt even try. Short of her feeling like she was in danger in some way, i think its shitty.  The ENTIRE premise of the show is to give it a shot even if the beginning is hard. She has ruined the show because everyone now knows they can bail. 

Lol on the Nick joke! Had high hopes for nick/sonia, but sadly nothing there.

Is it really that hard for a bunch of experts with tests galore to find compatible couples commited to try and be on TV? Really? I'm surprised... like I've said before i wish they had to give up their own places and truly live together.

[Evil Queen]

1 minute ago, Kareem said:

Laughing my hiney off here at the comments.  

The only surprise tonight was turtle head Tom of the creepy vibe fame was very nice to Lily, I thought.   This guy, in a new relationship, very fond of a big ole bus, not fond of pooping babies and what not  managed to say clearly and convincingly that he was there for her for her surgery and in this for the long-haul. I was impressed with both his kindness and his commitment.  

While I don't care for him much myself, he isn't the douche that the other 2 are at all. He has said a few stupid things and editing was stupid on the kids thing but so far he hasn't been a cold bitch or stoned face whiny bitch.

[Snarklepuss]

What straight guy looks at another guy's mustache and calls it "the most awesomest ever"?

Counselor Rachel:  "Nick, what do you think's holding you back?"

Mr. Snarklepuss as Nick:  "That you don't have a penis."

Nick: " I don't want to say it's been superficial (subtext: but it was) but in the past it was with someone I chose up front (subtext: meaning someone I found attractive, as in a MAN, i.e. SOMEONE I found attractive right away).

Me:  Seriously this guy said "someone" so many times like why couldn't he just say "a woman"?  Maybe because it wasn't???

Counselor Rachel:  "It's all about the vibe you put into this"

Nick:  (Petrified deer in headlights look on his face)  Crickets

Counselor:  "Sonia wants to know where you're at".

Nick:  "I want to grow.......I don't know exactly how to say"  (subtext: I wish my penis would get hard)

Me:  But dude, if your dick isn't getting hard by now, you're just not into her!!!

Re: the Tantric exercises - Apparently they can make Sonia momentarily gay but they can't even make Nick straight for 2 minutes even with two attractive women in the room!!!

[BunnySlippers]

10 minutes ago, Kareem said:

Laughing my hiney off here at the comments.  

The only surprise tonight was turtle head Tom of the creepy vibe fame was very nice to Lily, I thought.   This guy, in a new relationship, very fond of a big ole bus, not fond of pooping babies and what not  managed to say clearly and convincingly that he was there for her for her surgery and in this for the long-haul. I was impressed with both his kindness and his commitment.  

I agree. I was pleasantly surprised at how supportive and comforting Tom was. That was nice.

[izabella]

When Tom was talking about Lily's job and how she worked so many hours, I wondered how many hours he works.  Are we going to see him at his yacht interior specialist job?

I'm now on board the "Nick is not attracted to Sonia" train.  I gave him the benefit of the doubt for being shy and awkward for a while, but he pretty much spelled it out to Rachel. 

Tantra lady needed to step. back.  Wow, I would have hated that.

[Zanne505]

3 hours ago, VanSensei said:

Holy shit! That's all imma say about it. More at 9PM CST. In spoilers for the West Coast/MST/Alaska & Hawaii. 

Are you referring to the Nick segment where he is in a powder blue shirt - open up open up open up open up open up...

Man, Nick loses it and does a jekyl hyde! CRAZY!

[zxy556575]

Besides admitting he's not attracted to Sonia, Nick's statement that previous sexual relationships were more casual gave me a Madonna/whore vibe. I was a little surprised at this point that Nick has even had sex before. The tantric lady saying she felt his guardedness but also some emotion under that -- pfft. Way, WAY under.

11 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I thought Lilly was acting like she found out she had cancer or something. I've had two shoulder surgeries and of course no one wants to have a surgery at all but it's not a major surgery.

I had to keep reminding myself how young she is because yeesh. Sounds like she basically walked out and was so distressed she wouldn't even return Tom's calls. He was very patient with her.

Edited September 14, 2016 by lordonia

[CindyK]

Based on this week's revelations, Nick's comment (last week) that the marriage was at an 8-9 seems pretty phony.

[Negritude]

Tom looks like Jeff Gordon the race car driver. If someone's already pointed that out, my bad.

[Zanne505]

2 minutes ago, CindyK said:

Based on this week's revelations, Nick's comment (last week) that the marriage was at an 8-9 seems pretty phony.

After watching some teasers tonight I think ALL OF NICK IS PHONY!

(Maybe he thought he could pull off 'perfect quiet shy guy' for 6 weeks and sell some shirts and properties - looks like he cracks instead)

[Snarklepuss]

1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

I thought Lilly was acting like she found out she had cancer or something. I've had two shoulder surgeries and of course no one wants to have a surgery at all but it's not a major surgery. I would consider major surgery to be on an organ. And she appears to be able to lift her arms so I'm thinking maybe it will be arthroscopic surgery. I can see why she wouldn't want to be a burden, but you are usually home the same day and just have to do therapy. Just seemed way too dramatic.

Actually I feel for her.  She admitted to being under a lot of stress right then.  I think being on the show, marrying someone like that and so much happening so soon creates stress.  Even good stress is still stress and it can make dealing with other stressful things that much more difficult.  Plus she's feeling particularly vulnerable and hoping Tom is true to his word about caring about her that much right away.  It is a lot to hope of someone after only a couple of weeks.  I think her insecurities are unfounded with him.  As douchey as he seems I think his heart's in the right place with her.  But I can see from her POV it being a lot to process in a short amount of time and her feeling a bit insecure.

Plus, as I can attest from my own life, the prospect of surgery affects people differently.  For some people it's easy, for others (like me) it's practically a phobia.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[ChristmasJones]

I don't like the way the show seemed to put the burden on Heather.  That is lame. 

[ChristmasJones]

Its like they are saying its the woman's responsibility to make it work. Its the woman's responsibility to just take the shit dished out at her and live with it.  That is just completely sexist bullcrap. And its completely transparent in this situation.  Why not ask Derek how he could have acted differently?  Ask him if he can think of anything he did or said that contributed to this problem. From the stuff we saw on camera, I can see why she didn't want to stay with him. He seemed extremely immature when dealing with his feelings.

[Jade Foxx]

1 hour ago, lordonia said:

Besides admitting he's not attracted to Sonia, Nick mentioning that his other relationships were "casual" gave off a definite Madonna/whore vibe as well. I was a little surprised at this point that Nick has even had sex before. The tantric lady saying she felt his guardedness but also some emotion under that -- pfft. Way, WAY under.

I had to keep reminding myself how young she is because yeesh. Sounds like she basically walked out and was so distressed she wouldn't even return Tom's calls. He was very patient with her.

Lily is so fucking dramatic. Not just because of the surgery reveal, but she's an undercover whiner as well. And the hang dog, puppy eyes look and little girl lip pout...hope she grows up some before spitting out those chillren. 

She really irked me this ep, lol!

[Enero]

3 hours ago, jamblastx said:

  And please Sonia...for the love of god please stop saying the phrase 'I am deathly afraid of dogs'....we get it...you told us...but even a runaway freight train has to stop at some point.

I feel the same about Nick. If I had a glass of wine for every time he says  "I'm a painfully shy person" I'd be three sheets to the wind. What's crazy is that's a complete lie. If he was that shy he never would've signed up for this show. 

[mamadrama]

2 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

Actually I feel for her.  She admitted to being under a lot of stress right then.  I think being on the show, marrying someone like that and so much happening so soon creates stress.  Even good stress is still stress and it can make dealing with other stressful things that much more difficult.  Plus she's feeling particularly vulnerable and hoping Tom is true to his word about caring about her that much right away.  It is a lot to hope of someone after only a couple of weeks. 

I agree with all of this. I have a progressive, and ultimately terminal, medical condition that has necessitated dozens of surgeries. They never get easier. In fact, I've had brain surgery and 3 organs rupture and have to be removed (gallbladder, appendix, & uterus) and yet one of the most difficult surgeries I've had is one I actually had last week-on a TOOTH. That surgery has given me a deep bone infection, dry socket, and a host of other problems. Most of the past 10 days has been filled with hospital visits and strong pain medication. And again, it was a TOOTH. :-)

I don't swing that way but, hell, I think Sonia's hot. I wouldn't have a problem getting to know that. You know, if I liked the ladies. (But who knows, that might just be the narcotics talking.)

I was laughing at the way they were talking about the "divorce" being such a big deal. I mean, it's more a pain in the ass than anything. They were only together for two weeks. I am sure the embarrassment and inconvenience was worse than any heartbreak they felt. I used to be a travel writer. I once took a secretary with me on a 2-week assignment. We totally bonded but, at the end of the trip, we were fine to go our separate ways. I looked at this as just being one long vacation for them. Still, I figured she'd hang in there. I thought there might be a payment contingency that would keep them together. At the same time, I am not sure they need a divorce. They might qualify for an annulment. I don't think they had sex (unless I missed something). And Heather might be able to claim "fraud" or whatever you can claim for an annulment, if Derek really WAS smoking pot. 

[TRex77]

Rank of worst forecasters:

@55 Monkey throwing dart to pick stocks

56- Madame Lenomard, the fortune teller, and the great tarot reader

57- Dude with the crystal ball

58- Me, shaking the 8 ball

59- Stock analyst

60- Meteorologists

61- GW Bush on Iraq war

1,000,000 and absolute last - the three therapists on this show (regardless of who they are)

[moonbunnychan]

I really feel like Derek was much more of an ass then they showed.  His rant on their honeymoon where he talked about her in dog years was pretty telling.  I don't know that I would have put up with him a second longer either.  I'm guessing they're still following them for contractual agreements and the need to fill air time.

Edited September 14, 2016 by moonbunnychan
Typo

[candall]

7 hours ago, BunnySlippers said:

 I was pleasantly surprised at how supportive and comforting Tom was. That was nice.

True enough--a MAFS spouse faced a situation without looking sour and did not say "Give me a call when you're back at 100."  Yay!

Hee, we have such a low bar for these people.