S04.E07: For Better Or Worse

[Snarklepuss]

8 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I don't like the train wrecks. Derek and Heather are depressing as hell, and I felt awful for Vanessa last season when she got her heart broken. That wasn't entertaining to me. My BA is in psychology and I find this experiment fascinating from a human behavior standpoint, which is why I watch (I've only seen this season and last so I've only seen failures). The entire experiment is about figuring out what should work on paper and putting them together, but we don't live on paper (and this season, they didn't even do that. A dog lover with someone who is afraid of dogs is not a good match). I like trying to figure out how the couples can relate better, if it's a lost cause (which Heather and Derek are, IMO), what makes people tick, why a couple could work, why they didn't work, etc. If a couple isn't working, it's fun for me to imagine what kind of person would be a good match for each person.

I have an M.S. in Counseling Psych., so I relate to what you're saying.  I find the dynamics of human relationships (especially romantic ones) fascinating and I watch for all the same reasons you do.  Even the failures teach us something about how relationships can work better, so for me even the train wrecks have value.  The combined wisdom on this board is phenomenal, and I find myself agreeing with a lot of the analysis and theories.  I also like to think of what makes each participant similar to people I've known and what has worked for them.  I think the experts sometimes use methods that are too simplistic or cut and dried, which is why they don't work in the real world so well.  I think the best matchmakers have to use "seat of their pants" common sense and intuition, which can't be found on any questionnaire.  I often think this board would be better at matching people than this show.  Then again we often wonder if they deliberately match some of these people to create drama.

[Enero]

1 hour ago, Nowhere said:

She also needs to stop saying she's terrified of dogs. If the producers want us to believe that bullshit, they shouldn't show her petting the dog while she's saying in her TH that she's deathly afraid of dogs. 

She's not saying this over and over though. The producers are just replaying her confessional from previous episodes over and over again to create the illusion that she's going on and on about being terrified of dogs. 

They're doing the same thing with regards to her wanting affection from Nick. They are just replaying the talking head she had from several episodes ago and as a result people are preceiving it as her constantly whining about not knowing if Nick likes her.

I noticed this when watching the new episode from Tuesday night. There really wasn't much new that was said by Sonia and Nick, it was mostly the producers replaying footage or sound bites from THs in a previous episode.

[love2lovebadtv]

7 hours ago, ethalfrida said:

Believe it or not, there would be a lot of very interesting moments in the lives of couples who got married without ever seeing, meeting or knowing of each other. 

I think it's an interesting concept. I remember Neil from last season feeling like it was a totally viable way to find a spouse and part of his family did so as a cultural practice that was totally the norm. It's too bad this show makes a mockery of it for entertainment value. 

[ethalfrida]

8 minutes ago, love2lovebadtv said:

I think it's an interesting concept. I remember Neil from last season feeling like it was a totally viable way to find a spouse and part of his family did so as a cultural practice that was totally the norm. It's too bad this show makes a mockery of it for entertainment value. 

So agreeing to that :)

[Passthepopcorn]

5 hours ago, Nowhere said:

Sonia doesn't act like a woman who gets a lot of attention from men. If she was used to a lot of attention, she would feel pretty confident that she could make some sort of move to arouse her husband. She wouldn't have to ask. She just needs to go for it and see how he responds.  She doesn't act confident at all and that's not exactly attractive. 

Before the wedding when she was all dolled up, she said in her TH that she was expecting her new husband to think "She is hot!!", first thing. She knew she looked hot. If you are not confident, you don't expect people to find you hot. She got crickets from Nick. Nothing. From the get go she started loosing confidence that this man in particular felt any attraction to her at all. And after that, every time she said something remotely sexy (like "I like you") he told her to hold her horses.  I think she is used to and needs the man to make the first move. 

Plus different men find attraction in different attitudes. Not all men like the "go for it girl". Some men like the "shy, I'm not so sure" type. Or so many other types.

Quote

 

Edited September 9, 2016 by Passthepopcorn

[Drogo]

Once again:

This forum is for Married at First Sight, the US version.  Please do not post about the Australian Married at First Sight in these threads. 

If anyone would like to request a new show forum for the Australian version, please visit the New Show Forum Requests page.

[LennieBriscoe]

Sonia has said she fears dogs, and gave the reason. To deny that and to say she simply isn't "a dog person" is, IMO, grossly unfair to her.

If her behavior was as aloof and her speech as hesitant as Nick's and he was the one wondering what the deal was, I'd at least ask WTH was she doing and thinking, getting married? Just go date----again. Would I opine that she is gay? Maybe, if she said something like, "I don't want to touch your man-boob!" If she blurted out, apropos to nothing, "I'm not in love with you," I'd wonder, again, at least what she thought she would accomplish by that.

And IMO, the reason Sonia mentions only "funny" and not "adorable" or "handsome" to Nick is: She has given Nick enough signals, and he to her, zero. It's his time to step up, not hers to buck him up.

[Nurah]

11 hours ago, Enero said:

She's not saying this over and over though. The producers are just replaying her confessional from previous episodes over and over again to create the illusion that she's going on and on about being terrified of dogs. 

They're doing the same thing with regards to her wanting affection from Nick. They are just replaying the talking head she had from several episodes ago and as a result people are preceiving it as her constantly whining about not knowing if Nick likes her.

I noticed this when watching the new episode from Tuesday night. There really wasn't much new that was said by Sonia and Nick, it was mostly the producers replaying footage or sound bites from THs in a previous episode.

Ding ding ding! ?? Exactly my thoughts! The producers were simply replaying the footage from the early episodes, which is so frustrating..I felt they were moving (ever so) slowly in the right direction but then we have to watch their confessions put in from the post wedding/honeymoon episode. Just another way to get us hooked because we keep on wanting to know what will happen eventhough the editing is TERRIBLE!

[okerry]

19 hours ago, ethalfrida said:

Believe it or not, there would be a lot of very interesting moments in the lives of couples who got married without ever seeing, meeting or knowing of each other. 

Oh, absolutely. Wasn't the original premise of the show the fact that since these couples are legally married, they have to find ways to work through their differences and can't just walk away?

That would have been interesting. Except that they do just walk away.

I think most folks who like this show enjoyed the first season the most. One actual success, one that we thought was a success (though most think that's a business arrangement,) and one failure - though even the failure showed an attempt to make it work and we could understand why it didn't.

(psst - hey, Show - match Vaughn with Vanessa! That could work, and what an attractive couple!)

I which the producers could get it through their heads that for MAFS, the fans DO want to see romance and happy endings. Drama is fine Trauma is not.

When we want trauma, disasters, and trainwrecks, we watch 90-Day Fiance. It's clear from the start that those folks deserve what they get for trying to buy hot partners instead of looking for genuine love close to home, even if the wrapping might not be as fancy.

But we'd like to think that the people on MAFS are sincere, and that's why trainwrecks there are just depressing. Come on, Show! You found Jason & Cortney. Surely you can find us a few more!

Ya know what? Maybe I've been watching UnReal for too long, but if I was a producer on MAFS I'd throw a few ringers in there and swear them to secrecy. People who have been dating and feel some attraction, but haven't gotten engaged yet. You'd still have the same situation and we'd have the sweet little show we liked so much at first. Pay them and their friends to keep quiet about it. The ratings would make it worth it!

Edited September 9, 2016 by okerry

[okerry]

21 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I guess I could buy Nick being shy if I didn't hear him say he wouldn't initiate physical contact because he doesn't want to lead her on. To me this means he has no desire for a romantic relationship. I have heard guys say that before and it always means " I would have sex with her but she might think I'm her boyfriend" and the guy doesn't want that. I think Sona has shown she is attracted to him and he does not reciprocate. 

This. 100% This. And it's even worse here: She might think he's her HUSBAND. I think he's attracted enough, but with as nervous and clingy as Sonia is he knows that will only intensify to the max if they actually have sex.

IMHO, that's one of the few reasons a man will turn down sex: If he thinks the woman will get emotionally involved and strongly attached to him, and then he can't get rid of her. This is Nick x 1000 right now, when it comes to Sonia.

[Neurochick]

13 hours ago, KateHearts said:

I don't see how anyone could deduce this.  At all.  Unless Heather said, "my ideal guy is black/hispanic/Asian/Middle Eastern..."

The original guy they were going to match Heather with, I believe was a POC, not sure if he was black or not.

Quote

When we want trauma, disasters, and trainwrecks, we watch 90-Day Fiance. It's clear from the start that those folks deserve what they get for trying to buy hot partners instead of looking for genuine love close to home, even if the wrapping might not be as fancy.

Well that's what we, here on this board think.  One thing I have realized is that, in a lot of cases, this board doesn't always reflect what the viewing public wants to see, but you're right about 90 Day Fiance and train wrecks. 

If people didn't want to watch train wrecks, half these reality shows would have been cancelled years ago.

I don't think the experts are at fault, because human beings aren't machines and matchmaking isn't an exact science today.  It might have been decades ago, when the matchmaker and everybody else was from the same town and were the same race and religion.  Today it's harder, this is a more transient society.  You can put two people together who have a lot of similarities, and it doesn't work; you can put two people together who have a lot of differences and it does work; we humans aren't machines.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Neurochick

[love2lovebadtv]

2 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

The original guy they were going to match Heather with, I believe was a POC, not sure if he was black or not.

Yes, the original match was a black guy. If I recall correctly, he wanted someone exotic. I don't know what his definition of exotic is but I'm pretty sure Heather isn't it. 

[KateHearts]

6 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

The original guy they were going to match Heather with, I believe was a POC, not sure if he was black or not.

Do you think it was because she specifically stated persons of color as a preference? I just don't get how someone would think that was her preference based on the fact that she appears disinterested in Derek.

[love2lovebadtv]

9 minutes ago, KateHearts said:

Do you think it was because she specifically stated persons of color as a preference? I just don't get how someone would think that was her preference based on the fact that she appears disinterested in Derek.

For the whole time I've been watching this show, Vanessa is the only person I recall stating a preference for a particular race.

[Madding crowd]

Perhaps she said she was open to other races. I think most people would not state a particular race preference, but could use things like "exotic" to kind of insinuate that. I don't think Derek's race or coloring are what the problem is here. I wonder if Heather and Derek will ever speak out fully to the issues, it could be that they just don't like each other. Heather is getting most of the grief, but she has not said anything about Derek's look or age and he has said some nasty things about her. 

[LennieBriscoe]

Derek Schwartz  is not a "person of color."

[love2lovebadtv]

7 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Derek Schwartz  is not a "person of color."

Yea but I think he could be any color and they'd still have problems.  Her issues with him go beyond race and physical appearance. She actually said he had a nice face. 

Just now, love2lovebadtv said:

Yea but I think he could be any color and they'd still have problems. 

 

15 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Perhaps she said she was open to other races. I think most people would not state a particular race preference, but could use things like "exotic" to kind of insinuate that. I don't think Derek's race or coloring are what the problem is here. I wonder if Heather and Derek will ever speak out fully to the issues, it could be that they just don't like each other. Heather is getting most of the grief, but she has not said anything about Derek's look or age and he has said some nasty things about her. 

Yea, he's insulted her. But Derek is probably more into her than she's into him, though. He seemed happier with the match than she ever was. 

Edited September 9, 2016 by love2lovebadtv

[Nowhere]

8 hours ago, Passthepopcorn said:

Before the wedding when she was all dolled up, she said in her TH that she was expecting her new husband to think "She is hot!!", first thing. She knew she looked hot. If you are not confident, you don't expect people to find you hot. She got crickets from Nick. Nothing. From the get go she started loosing confidence that this man in particular felt any attraction to her at all. And after that, every time she said something remotely sexy (like "I like you") he told her to hold her horses.  I think she is used to and needs the man to make the first move. 

Plus different men find attraction in different attitudes. Not all men like the "go for it girl". Some men like the "shy, I'm not so sure" type. Or so many other types.

I did not say that she didn't like how she looked at the wedding. I also didn't say that she doesn't believe she's a pretty woman. I said she doesn't act very confident in herself and I don't believe that men are throwing themselves at her. If she had the pick of the litter, she wouldn't have done this show and she would definitely be secure enough within herself to speak up already. The little girl act is tiring.

She isn't exactly making any moves toward Nick so I don't know why it's all on him anyway. I can see that maybe she has lost confidence in her relationship with Nick because he is obviously not attracted to her. But that's no reason to lose all confidence whatsoever. Nick doesn't have to like the "go for it" woman nor does Sonia have to be that woman in order to "go for it" in some way. If Nick likes the "shy, I'm not so sure" type, he's not exactly showing it. I wasn't thinking she had to jump on his dick, but what Sonia is currently doing is not working so, unless she wants to at least speak to him openly about their lack of chemistry, she has no business whining about it. And anyway, this isn't all about Nick and what Nick likes. The fact that she tip-toes around him trying not to offend, won't even speak up about the dogs, won't initiate any contact with him physically just proves my point. She should grow a backbone and realize she is in this too and maybe it can be about what SHE wants sometimes.

When they were on the hammock and he said he wasn't in love with her, why didn't she tell him right then that she's not in love with him either? Instead she walked away, complained about it, and told Dr. Pepper that she didn't want to seem like a nagging wife. She is insecure even when it comes to her own feelings and she is finding it very hard to be assertive enough to express herself to her husband. How you can see confidence in that is beyond me.

[KateHearts]

17 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Derek Schwartz  is not a "person of color."

uhh, no one ever said he was.

[Neurochick]

The original man Heather was paired with (who said HE wanted someone more exotic looking), was  POC.

Also, the original woman Thomas was paired with was a POC; she was part black, part Hispanic and had her own salon and sold hair.  I remember they thought she would not be open to the bus.

[love2lovebadtv]

21 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

The original man Heather was paired with (who said HE wanted someone more exotic looking), was  POC.

Also, the original woman Thomas was paired with was a POC; she was part black, part Hispanic and had her own salon and sold hair.  I remember they thought she would not be open to the bus.

I remember the guy Heather was originally paired with. And I remember the hair entrepreneur. Didn't realize she was paired with Tom, though. 

I wonder how they determine what woman would be OK with the bus.  If anyone, I would have thought a realtor wouldn't be comfortable with it. 

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

The original guy they were going to match Heather with, I believe was a POC, not sure if he was black or not.

Well that's what we, here on this board think.  One thing I have realized is that, in a lot of cases, this board doesn't always reflect what the viewing public wants to see, but you're right about 90 Day Fiance and train wrecks. 

If people didn't want to watch train wrecks, half these reality shows would have been cancelled years ago.

I don't think the experts are at fault, because human beings aren't machines and matchmaking isn't an exact science today.  It might have been decades ago, when the matchmaker and everybody else was from the same town and were the same race and religion.  Today it's harder, this is a more transient society.  You can put two people together who have a lot of similarities, and it doesn't work; you can put two people together who have a lot of differences and it does work; we humans aren't machines.

Also, people did not expect as much from a marriage as they do now.  Modern people want their partner to "complete" them in a manner that set ups some very high expectations.

Often you were matched with a life partner by family and/or friends.  If you did not hate each other and produced many babies, it was a success.

I read an article that said that even though the modern divorce rate is high, the marriages that do last are some of the strongest marriages ever, because the spouses have a very solid bond, that was not necessarily a part of marriages in the distant past.

Heck, if anyone watches Mad Men, it was very difficult for Betty to divorce Don in 1960's New York, even though Don had lied and betrayed her many times.

This is another factor...women have more options in life.

In old Dear Abbey articles, there are many infamous times were "Abbey" advised a woman to stay in an abusive or harmful relationship...to try and "work it out" with her husband.  This was not because Abbey was a heartless shrew, it was because back in the day people thought a divorced woman would be shunned and destitute, without a man to support her (even more so if she had kids).

This is not the case now (thank goodness) and is one of the reasons matchmaking does not have a great success rate.

However, this still does not excuse some of the mistakes the so called "experts" have made on this show.

[Neurochick]

7 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Also, people did not expect as much from a marriage as they do now.  Modern people want their partner to "complete" them in a manner that set ups some very high expectations.

Often you were matched with a life partner by family and/or friends.  If you did not hate each other and produced many babies, it was a success.

I read an article that said that even though the modern divorce rate is high, the marriages that do last are some of the strongest marriages ever, because the spouses have a very solid bond, that was not necessarily a part of marriages in the distant past.

Heck, if anyone watches Mad Men, it was very difficult for Betty to divorce Don in 1960's New York, even though Don had lied and betrayed her many times.

This is another factor...women have more options in life.

In old Dear Abbey articles, there are many infamous times were "Abbey" advised a woman to stay in an abusive or harmful relationship...to try and "work it out" with her husband.  This was not because Abbey was a heartless shrew, it was because back in the day people thought a divorced woman would be shunned and destitute, without a man to support her (even more so if she had kids).

This is not the case now (thank goodness) and is one of the reasons matchmaking does not have a great success rate.

However, this still does not excuse some of the mistakes the so called "experts" have made on this show.

Very true.  Today people want a soulmate.  The purpose of marriage, decades ago was to have children and plenty of them, to keep the species going.  If two people had very different interests, that was fine; men had their friends and women had theirs.  Today it seems that couples want to be each others everything and I can imagine that's hard for matchmakers, how to you pair two people who are looking for soul mates?

I can't even fault the experts, because I don't know what these people wrote on their questionnaires.  Did Heather say she was okay with smoking?  Did Derek say he smoked often?  Did Sonia say she was afraid of dogs?  Did Nick say he was in love with his dogs? 

The one thing they got totally wrong IMO was Lily and Tom, because of the bus, but so far they are the only couple who seem into each other. 

[Evil Queen]

1 hour ago, Nowhere said:

 

When they were on the hammock and he said he wasn't in love with her, why didn't she tell him right then that she's not in love with him either? Instead she walked away, complained about it, and told Dr. Pepper that she didn't want to seem like a nagging wife. She is insecure even when it comes to her own feelings and she is finding it very hard to be assertive enough to express herself to her husband. How you can see confidence in that is beyond me.

While she didn't say she it, the fact is that Nick saying it was so out of left field. It was a complete WTF are you talking about moment and probably shocked her so she wasn't sure if she how to say she didn't love him either without it coming out in a bad way. She did say some things to him about not opening up but he is coming off like its her fault he doesn't open up. Sometimes its best to walk away and take a breather before saying something you might not want to. The fact is though he isn't in to her and its why he won't open up. So instead he is coming off like a cold bitch. He is more open with his dogs and rather his dogs sleep in the room than her. He lied to Pepper about the dog issue. Sonia told him she was scared of dogs and even said she didn't want them sleeping on the bed (maybe even in the room...can't remember but know bed for sure). Yet what does he do? Nothing to help ease the dog issue but let's them jump and get in her face. Then has them in the bed. He makes snide remarks with his smirk on his face. I didn't think he was a jerk from the get go but the more that has gone on, the more he has shown how much of one he is IMO. I don't think not being into her makes him one but his behaviors towards her is. The whole boob thing was so childish and more so when he was telling her to not make him touch her boob. SMH she wasn't trying to get him to feel her up. Which in turn why on earth would they be told to do that kind of "exercise" when its clear he isn't wanting to touch her if he doesn't have to. Yet again with the shirt and if that place they are in is one of his rentals, I would bet he will make sure to add that in to his ad for it and how it was seen on MAFS. *rollseyes* 

Sorry but Derek didn't smoking..he was high in so many scenes after his supposed "quiting". Then even more on ones in this last episode. Derek is so back and forth on what he is saying about Heather. Dude can't keep it straight. First he doesn't care and is done and now he is I want to try again and cares. He just doesn't want to come off looking like more of an ass than he does and thinks this will help. Yet if they were smart they will just be done and move on with their lives. The stupid "experts" need to stop pushing them to keep going when its over and done. Did they ever even say why these 2 were supposedly a good match? All I hear is they were matched for a reason or how they think Heather and Derek are still a good match for each other but never why they think/thought that way. Yet no matter what its obvious they were not a good match to those of us watching. I wouldn't be surprised if they are dragging things out with them because its over sooner than the show had wanted so they have to make it seem like it was longer. Heck even the mention of weeks and how long they have been married seems off with what is said in other scenes or episodes before it...its hard to keep it straight on what day they are into of this crock of a marriage. LOL Editing of it makes it even worse. 

Tom with the ahole comment on toddlers...WTF??? That just comes off in bad light saying things like that. 

Edited September 9, 2016 by Evil Queen

[Enero]

29 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Very true.  Today people want a soulmate.  The purpose of marriage, decades ago was to have children and plenty of them, to keep the species going.  If two people had very different interests, that was fine; men had their friends and women had theirs.  Today it seems that couples want to be each others everything and I can imagine that's hard for matchmakers, how to you pair two people who are looking for soul mates?

 

Actually it was to keep the livelihood going ( which ultimate leads to the species I guess. Lol). Many families that were farmers and sharecroppers needed the extra hands to help work the land. So the more children, the better. Also birth control was of course not prevalent especially amongst the poor as a result women didn't have much choice but to have lots of children. 

I can't even fault the experts, because I don't know what these people wrote on their questionnaires.  Did Heather say she was okay with smoking?  Did Derek say he smoked often?  Did Sonia say she was afraid of dogs?  Did Nick say he was in love with his dogs?

Agreed. 

[lh25]

Quote

 It might have been decades ago, when the matchmaker and everybody else was from the same town and were the same race and religion. 

And the matchmakers knew the families involved, and probably had known the bride and groom from their childhoods.  They had way more information then these experts have.

 

Quote

Very true.  Today people want a soulmate.  The purpose of marriage, decades ago was to have children and plenty of them, to keep the species going.  If two people had very different interests, that was fine; men had their friends and women had theirs.

Reminds of the song "Do you love me" from Fiddler on the Roof.  

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, Evil Queen said:

Tom with the ahole comment on toddlers...WTF??? That just comes off in bad light saying things like that. 

Maybe that's what he thinks of kids.  Nothing wrong with that; not everybody likes or wants to have kids.

But, as I said, no one knows what these people put on the questionnaires.  I don't know what Derek said about smoking, or what Heather thought of it; I don't know if Nick said he's in love with his dogs, or that Sonia is scared of dogs.  Did Tom say the bus was very important to him?  Did he say he wanted children?  Did Lilly say she wants to have kids now?

I can't really fault the experts unless I know how these people answered the questions.  Sometimes  people lie when they're asked personality questions, because they want to appear cool, with it, and hip. 

[princelina]

4 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

For the whole time I've been watching this show, Vanessa is the only person I recall stating a preference for a particular race.

And Davina said no Indian men :)

[love2lovebadtv]

14 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Maybe that's what he thinks of kids.  Nothing wrong with that; not everybody likes or wants to have kids.

But, as I said, no one knows what these people put on the questionnaires.  I don't know what Derek said about smoking, or what Heather thought of it; I don't know if Nick said he's in love with his dogs, or that Sonia is scared of dogs.  Did Tom say the bus was very important to him?  Did he say he wanted children?  Did Lilly say she wants to have kids now?

I can't really fault the experts unless I know how these people answered the questions.  Sometimes  people lie when they're asked personality questions, because they want to appear cool, with it, and hip. 

I get not liking or wanting to have kids but referring to them as assholes is harsh and unnecessary. Tom is upfront, though, so Lily probably has a better sense of what she's dealing with than the other two. 

I think Heather said she was OK with an occasional smoker. I think that had something to do with their pairing. I remember them saying that made it difficult to match him. 

15 minutes ago, princelina said:

And Davina said no Indian men :)

Ahhh, ok. I didn't know that. 

[Evil Queen]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Maybe that's what he thinks of kids.  Nothing wrong with that; not everybody likes or wants to have kids.

But, as I said, no one knows what these people put on the questionnaires.  I don't know what Derek said about smoking, or what Heather thought of it; I don't know if Nick said he's in love with his dogs, or that Sonia is scared of dogs.  Did Tom say the bus was very important to him?  Did he say he wanted children?  Did Lilly say she wants to have kids now?

I can't really fault the experts unless I know how these people answered the questions.  Sometimes  people lie when they're asked personality questions, because they want to appear cool, with it, and hip. 

1 hour ago, love2lovebadtv said:

I get not liking or wanting to have kids but referring to them as assholes is harsh and unnecessary. Tom is upfront, though, so Lily probably has a better sense of what she's dealing with than the other two. 

I think Heather said she was OK with an occasional smoker. I think that had something to do with their pairing. I remember them saying that made it difficult to match him. 

 

While I agree its not for all but it was harsh to refer to them in such a manner. Especially from someone that says they want kids at some point or thinks they do...I also get that certain ages/stages of kids is not for all. I think if Tom had said he didn't care for the toddler phase in kids it would have been different. As a parent or anyone around kids during those ages knows it can be hard with some and easier with others but they aren't assholes. Brats at times maybe but not assholes. Now what I want to know is if he told Lily that because what we saw was a TH of his. LOL

And yes Heather said she was ok with occasional smoking. Which I am sure meant cigarettes. I would bet if it had just been that it wouldn't have been a big deal but it was more than cigarettes. I doubt they ask about if they are ok with being with a pot smoker though. I wouldn't be surprised if they ask if they have pets, what kind and how many. You couldn't put someone allergic with in that situation. Of course I wouldn't put it past the "experts" to do so though. Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if they knew Sonia was afraid of dogs and put her in this situation. Looking at the past seasons and how they match, it is always something where it would be to "fix" issues someone might have. Considering Tom and his bus, he was found on FB so I would imagine his bus is probably pictured on it and how he lives in it. Which could have been what caught their eye and they thought would up some drama for tv. With that though do they ask them about if they want kids....that is a questions that should be asked if they are not. 

[Empress1]

4 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

Tom with the ahole comment on toddlers...WTF??? That just comes off in bad light saying things like that. 

I mean, I love toddlers, but ... they kind of are assholes. There's a child development book called "Toddlers are Assholes: It's Not Your Fault." They act the way they do because they don't know any better and it's up to the adults in their lives to teach them, but it's often assholish behavior. One of my best friends has three nephews and the youngest is three. He's my little buddy. She texted me once after a long day of babysitting him and she was like, "Your little boyfriend was a pain in my ass today" - and she ADORES all her nephews, particularly that one because she sees him all the time (the other two live out of state). 

And I think everyone has stages of development they prefer. I don't like babies until they're walking; I'll take a kid in the throes of the terrible twos or a hormonal middle schooler (I've worked with groups of both) over a three-month-old.

Basically, that's totally the kind of thing people I know would say and have said, so it didn't faze me. I get being offended by it though; it IS a harsh thing to say, particularly since when my friends say it there's love behind it - we love the kids in our lives, assholishness and all. Tom doesn't seem to interact much with kids so there's no love behind the statement.

[nlkm9]

6 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

Yea but I think he could be any color and they'd still have problems.  Her issues with him go beyond race and physical appearance. She actually said he had a nice face. 

 

Yea, he's insulted her. But Derek is probably more into her than she's into him, though. He seemed happier with the match than she ever was. 

Derek is that immature guy that insults someone who rejects him. Oh "no spring chicken" but I bet you anything if she cuddled with him he would sing a whole different tune. he's pissed and lashes out and is a dirty fighter...this early in the game-no good imo.

[ciaoformeow]

On 9/8/2016 at 5:55 PM, KateHearts said:

I don't see how anyone could deduce this.  At all.  Unless Heather said, "my ideal guy is black/hispanic/Asian/Middle Eastern..."

Thays the beauty of it being my opinion from my own experience with women like her.

Only time will tell but it doesn't mean I'm wrong simply because YOU can't understand how I would come to that idea. 

?

[Evil Queen]

5 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I mean, I love toddlers, but ... they kind of are assholes. There's a child development book called "Toddlers are Assholes: It's Not Your Fault." They act the way they do because they don't know any better and it's up to the adults in their lives to teach them, but it's often assholish behavior. One of my best friends has three nephews and the youngest is three. He's my little buddy. She texted me once after a long day of babysitting him and she was like, "Your little boyfriend was a pain in my ass today" - and she ADORES all her nephews, particularly that one because she sees him all the time (the other two live out of state). 

And I think everyone has stages of development they prefer. I don't like babies until they're walking; I'll take a kid in the throes of the terrible twos or a hormonal middle schooler (I've worked with groups of both) over a three-month-old.

Basically, that's totally the kind of thing people I know would say and have said, so it didn't faze me. I get being offended by it though; it IS a harsh thing to say, particularly since when my friends say it there's love behind it - we love the kids in our lives, assholishness and all. Tom doesn't seem to interact much with kids so there's no love behind the statement.

I get it. I have 3 (18, 14 and almost 10). Older ones are boys and youngest is the princess. They each are very different. We have had trying times in each at different stages. I have never called them assholes though. Pains in my butt sure. That they were driving me crazy on some days...oh yeah. I have called my own and many other kids brats. The worse I have probably said is that certain bratty kids needed a smack on the face but I always say their parents do too since they are the reason for the kid that ends up a bratty child. I just think when on something like this its one of those things that you shouldn't just spew out. LOL As I said if it had been worded different it might have not come off so harsh like it did. But either way, I still don't see him as the worse man on this show at this point. LOL

[Snarklepuss]

14 hours ago, okerry said:

Ya know what? Maybe I've been watching UnReal for too long, but if I was a producer on MAFS I'd throw a few ringers in there and swear them to secrecy. People who have been dating and feel some attraction, but haven't gotten engaged yet. You'd still have the same situation and we'd have the sweet little show we liked so much at first. Pay them and their friends to keep quiet about it. The ratings would make it worth it!

You know, I had that same thought.  At least have them date the other person first and know they want to continue before marrying them.  A mutual attraction and at least some intention of wanting to pursue a relationship would be a great head start.  Or maybe giving them the option of meeting the person once first and have them decide if they want to continue with the marriage.

11 hours ago, lh25 said:

And the matchmakers knew the families involved, and probably had known the bride and groom from their childhoods.  They had way more information then these experts have.

I know, and that's why they were probably more successful at matchmaking.  I've made the point again and again that the methods these "experts" are using aren't good enough.  First hand information is so much better.  If their questionnaires don't even specify how often "occasionally" means, they're not very good, IMHO.  I get it that they don't have that kind of time but maybe they should change things around so they DO have more time and opportunity to observe these people before matching them.

[Passthepopcorn]

On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 9:55 AM, KateHearts said:

Do you think it was because she specifically stated persons of color as a preference? I just don't get how someone would think that was her preference based on the fact that she appears disinterested in Derek.

They were going to match Heather with a guy (black I think with a tattoo on his neck) who wanted someone exotic. They thought they would work together but decided against it because of her typical white American girl looks. So then they picked Derek for her and the other guy was eliminated. But I don't think anything was said about her race/looks preferences in a man.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Passthepopcorn

[Passthepopcorn]

23 hours ago, Nowhere said:

I did not say that she didn't like how she looked at the wedding. I also didn't say that she doesn't believe she's a pretty woman. I said she doesn't act very confident in herself and I don't believe that men are throwing themselves at her. If she had the pick of the litter, she wouldn't have done this show and she would definitely be secure enough within herself to speak up already. The little girl act is tiring.

She isn't exactly making any moves toward Nick so I don't know why it's all on him anyway. I can see that maybe she has lost confidence in her relationship with Nick because he is obviously not attracted to her. But that's no reason to lose all confidence whatsoever. Nick doesn't have to like the "go for it" woman nor does Sonia have to be that woman in order to "go for it" in some way. If Nick likes the "shy, I'm not so sure" type, he's not exactly showing it. I wasn't thinking she had to jump on his dick, but what Sonia is currently doing is not working so, unless she wants to at least speak to him openly about their lack of chemistry, she has no business whining about it. And anyway, this isn't all about Nick and what Nick likes. The fact that she tip-toes around him trying not to offend, won't even speak up about the dogs, won't initiate any contact with him physically just proves my point. She should grow a backbone and realize she is in this too and maybe it can be about what SHE wants sometimes.

When they were on the hammock and he said he wasn't in love with her, why didn't she tell him right then that she's not in love with him either? Instead she walked away, complained about it, and told Dr. Pepper that she didn't want to seem like a nagging wife. She is insecure even when it comes to her own feelings and she is finding it very hard to be assertive enough to express herself to her husband. How you can see confidence in that is beyond me.

No, no. I agree that she looks nervous and afraid to talk to Nick. The point of the original post was that the ideal for her would be that the man shows that he is attracted naturally, without her having to initiate a conversation about how appalled she is starting to feel about that. I think she has gotten that attention from men she has been with in pass relationships.

I'm not saying that men follow her in the street. She looks good for her age, but she is not Jessica Rabbit. My idea is that with the men she's been with she has experienced being pursued physically, that she was expecting Nick to show that he wants to touch her at some point (even if they decide to wait), but show that he is getting sweaty and impatient being a foot away from her every night, something. You know, having a hard time (lol). Since she hasn't gotten that, she lost that "take it for granted" confidence that "this is what happens when I'm that close to a male". This is new and she wonders if he likes her at all which makes her retreat instead of making her feel playful/seductive.

Maybe she doesn't want to make a move because, being so emotional, if she gets upset when he says something, imagine if she gets physically rejected. Devastating.

All in all, it is only been two weeks. Not enough time to have meaningful sex, like they want.

[Nowhere]

28 minutes ago, Passthepopcorn said:

No, no. I agree that she looks nervous and afraid to talk to Nick. The point of the original post was that the ideal for her would be that the man shows that he is attracted naturally, without her having to initiate a conversation about how appalled she is starting to feel about that. I think she has gotten that attention from men she has been with in pass relationships.

I'm not saying that men follow her in the street. She looks good for her age, but she is not Jessica Rabbit. My idea is that with the men she's been with she has experienced being pursued physically, that she was expecting Nick to show that he wants to touch her at some point (even if they decide to wait), but show that he is getting sweaty and impatient being a foot away from her every night, something. You know, having a hard time (lol). Since she hasn't gotten that, she lost that "take it for granted" confidence that "this is what happens when I'm that close to a male". This is new and she wonders if he likes her at all which makes her retreat instead of making her feel playful/seductive.

Maybe she doesn't want to make a move because, being so emotional, if she gets upset when he says something, imagine if she gets physically rejected. Devastating.

All in all, it is only been two weeks. Not enough time to have meaningful sex, like they want.

I get that. If I were her I would be offended enough to call it a day. If he was very religious or saving himself for that special someone, I may give him some leeway. But even in those cases, men show interest by being somewhat flirtatious. It's in the eyes, facial expressions, "accidental" touching lol, and talking. You know what I mean. Men aren't hard to read when it comes to sex and it's not hard to make them want to. A lot of men have one night stands and sometimes they're not even all that attracted to the women they sleep with. That's why there are beer goggles haha. Nick is not acting like a man. Certainly not a man that wants his woman. I don't believe that this guy cares that much about meaningful sex. That's an excuse and anyway, why can't it be meaningful? They're married and they've been together day and night for two weeks. They are way past the third date rule or whatever the rule is today. If he cared about her he'd want to express that and it could be fun and meaningful. No, there's something wrong with Nick. He's definitely not sexually attracted to Sonia. We've established that however he knew what he was getting into when he married her. Sex is involved in a marriage. So he needs to get wasted and fuck her already. But he won't even touch her or flirt with her. I just wish she had the confidence to speak up and say this is how it is, we need to know if we are compatible in this area, I'm willing, if you can't or won't then we should go our separate ways because it probably won't change. It's ok if she gets turned down because she needs to know. If he doesn't want her, another man will who's more deserving and she can leave Nick to French his dogs.

[Nowhere]

And plus I think they cut out A LOT of the conversation between Nick and his mother's boyfriend. I'm pretty sure he gave a lot of very telling information in that conversation and we didn't get to hear it. 

Nick keeps referring to Sonia as "a cool girl" and other friend zone terminology. The way he talks about her in his TH's is so friend zoneish every single time. He says the relationship is a nine on a one to ten scale but there's no sex. Sounds like he's trying to convince the audience that he's soooo happy and not doing this to promote Section 8. I don't believe you, Nick. 

[Stillhoping]

I think Tom was just trying to be funny and also put a little slow down to Lillys baby drama. I really like this couple and am amazed at all the put downs.

They seem like they are having fun. They compromise. They are affectionate...great! Sweet littleEmma and sweet little Zeus both seem to really like Tom. 

My take Heather and Dereck...I think he has just turned her off. Maybe high and acting silly...over affectionate...I think she realized he would not fit in with her friends and family.   He could be really annoying .

My guess is that they are both Jewish maybe not real religious. Frankly Derek seems like a loser. Account Executive in S Florida can mean telemarketer or the guy at the cellphone kiosk at the Mall.

[Empress1]

24 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

And plus I think they cut out A LOT of the conversation between Nick and his mother's boyfriend. I'm pretty sure he gave a lot of very telling information in that conversation and we didn't get to hear it. 

Nick keeps referring to Sonia as "a cool girl" and other friend zone terminology. The way he talks about her in his TH's is so friend zoneish every single time. He says the relationship is a nine on a one to ten scale but there's no sex. Sounds like he's trying to convince the audience that he's soooo happy and not doing this to promote Section 8. I don't believe you, Nick. 

I have to say, if I were going to go on TV solely to promote a business, this is absolutely the last show I would pick to do it.  I mean, I would never do this show anyway, but for promotion's sake I just don't think it makes sense. I guess it's possible that Nick applied to be on a lot of reality TV shows and this is just the only one that would have him, but I'd think being on this show would be way more trouble than it's worth - in general and for promotional purposes. I can understand throwing on a shirt (I just noticed the shirts for the first time this episode so his efforts are wasted on me, heh) once you realized you were going to be on TV, but applying for this particular show solely to promote your business strikes me as weird. "I need to promote my rental business, let me go on Married at First Sight" doesn't line up for me strategically.

[Evil Queen]

36 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

And plus I think they cut out A LOT of the conversation between Nick and his mother's boyfriend. I'm pretty sure he gave a lot of very telling information in that conversation and we didn't get to hear it. 

Nick keeps referring to Sonia as "a cool girl" and other friend zone terminology. The way he talks about her in his TH's is so friend zoneish every single time. He says the relationship is a nine on a one to ten scale but there's no sex. Sounds like he's trying to convince the audience that he's soooo happy and not doing this to promote Section 8. I don't believe you, Nick. 

He also is always telling her she is awesome. Which just the way he says these things doesn't come off as he means it. LOL It would be great if she just said something like "I'm sorry but are you sure I am awesome? The way you are saying it says otherwise". Just something to tell him he is being an ass. 

35 minutes ago, Stillhoping said:

I think Tom was just trying to be funny and also put a little slow down to Lillys baby drama. I really like this couple and am amazed at all the put downs.

 

I don't even know where there was drama with the baby subject. She didn't want them right now. She wanted to wait for 5 yrs. Which really isn't a bad idea consider she is only 24 and seems she hasn't been doing real estate to long. On top of it this marriage is new and it would give them that time to get to know each other more IF they make it past 6 weeks/6 months or whatever. I think the baby talk was producer driven though. My only issue with Tom in this was the asshole comment. That was just harsh and came off really bad. But no matter what its not a bad thing to discuss kids and if your new spouse even wants them at some point down the road. With having 6 weeks to figure out if they want to stay married or not they do have to kind of try to discuss many things that most couples have time to talk about over the years and not right off the bat like that. 

 

4 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I have to say, if I were going to go on TV solely to promote a business, this is absolutely the last show I would pick to do it.  I mean, I would never do this show anyway, but for promotion's sake I just don't think it makes sense. I guess it's possible that Nick applied to be on a lot of reality TV shows and this is just the only one that would have him, but I'd think being on this show would be way more trouble than it's worth - in general and for promotional purposes. I can understand throwing on a shirt (I just noticed the shirts for the first time this episode so his efforts are wasted on me, heh) once you realized you were going to be on TV, but applying for this particular show solely to promote your business strikes me as weird. "I need to promote my rental business, let me go on Married at First Sight" doesn't line up for me strategically.

I wouldn't be surprised honestly. Some may feel its worth the hassle in the long run. If they are staying in his rental he can promote it as seen on MAFS. Which at this point I have a feeling it is his rental. But he is also trying to get a clothing line off and running that he keeps wearing as well. Which can be promoted as well with the as seen on MAFS. When Arranged was on there was the couple from Newport Beach, CA and its ALL they did. It was beyond obvious that they were pushing how they worked in real estate and where since they name dropped it almost every episode, and her clothing store. Which they showed the name of that store too a few times. Plus all there drama was over work. No matter what in this case Nick is not into Sonia at all. Hell isn't he promoting his rental and stuff on his SM accts used for this show? That right there would be a HUGE sign that he is using it to get free promotion for his businesses and could care less about anything else. 

[Waterlilly]

When I rewatched, when they went to see each other's place that Nick said, this one and the one next door are my rentals. I don't know about the one they moved into, but I wouldn't be surprised. Maybe that is why the amount of the rent didn't bother him. 

[Jack Sampson]

1 hour ago, Nowhere said:

Sex is involved in a marriage. So he needs to get wasted and fuck her already. But he won't even touch her or flirt with her. I just wish she had the confidence to speak up and say this is how it is, we need to know if we are compatible in this area,...

People would have a meltdown if he had sex then dumped her on decision day - accuse him of just using her.  It wouldn't matter how much she wanted, or even pushed for sex, Nick would be seen as the big bad wolf.

If Sonia wants sex, she should put on (or take off?) her big girl pants and say so.  Or start one night in bed and make him say no.  Or just wear something to bed other than her "no sex tonight, dear" outfit.  The point is, other than complaining in her THs, she hasn't given Nick a lot of feedback.

[Nowhere]

^^ I agree with Evil Queen. Reality shows are a damn good way to become a millionaire. I forget how long they have to stay married but it's not that long. If you go in knowing that you don't really want to be married, you act incompatible, and get the divorce when its decision time. You do your best to be friends with the spouse so that he/she doesn't hate you and neither do the viewers. No harm done to anybody and you just got free hour long commercials for a few weeks. The herd mentality fans will buy Nick's shit just because. I'm sure sales increased as soon as the show started. Lily has probably sold millions of dollars worth of houses by now. And if you do luck into finding "the one", not only did you just gain tons of business, but there's always that possibility of a spin-off show like The First Year. Shit, I'd do it if I was the type that wanted the attention or at least didn't mind it.  What's the worst that could happen? Somebody gets their feelings hurt? 

[humbleopinion]

Derek is not a POC "person of color" but his upper arms are a 96 Crayon box set with built in sharpener.

Edited September 10, 2016 by humbleopinion

[lazylou]

On September 7, 2016 at 1:54 PM, brilliantbreakfast said:

These "experts" are doing this deliberately -- creating these trainwrecks out of people who just want to find someone to spend their lives with -- all for the cameras. It's sick, sick, sick, and every week I hate myself for watching.

I agree.  Thus the very low success rate!  And, as for "matchmakers" in the past...they were dealing with people from the same culture with the same expectations and who had no sense they could easily walk away from the arranged marriage.

Look how much trouble "Arranged" on the same network seems to have had even finding anyone who was actually "arranged."  Only the Roma couple (Christian and Maria) seemed to have fit the bill, and, thinking about that, remember that the brother (Peter) of the groom expressed a deisre to find his own bride and the sister of the bride had actually run off with a Romani boy.  And on American Gypsies, there was a lot of talk about arranging marriages, but none of the young men seemed to have been matched with a complete stranger by his family, and the marriages of the middle aged generation seemed to have been disastrous.

Edited September 10, 2016 by lazylou

[Nowhere]

1 hour ago, Jack Sampson said:

People would have a meltdown if he had sex then dumped her on decision day - accuse him of just using her.  It wouldn't matter how much she wanted, or even pushed for sex, Nick would be seen as the big bad wolf.

If Sonia wants sex, she should put on (or take off?) her big girl pants and say so.  Or start one night in bed and make him say no.  Or just wear something to bed other than her "no sex tonight, dear" outfit.  The point is, other than complaining in her THs, she hasn't given Nick a lot of feedback.

Good point. I didn't think of it but you're right. The public would have an absolute conniption if he had sex with his wife and then decided they were incompatible. Hate to tell everybody to get with the times but people really should get with the times. It's ok to explore an intimate relationship. Perhaps they would have more successful couples if more of them had sex. 

Like I've said before, this is not all Nick's fault. Sonia hasn't made any moves either. Although, she was bending over messing with something on the end table at one point, ass in the air on the bed while Nick was laying next to her, facing her way btw, and he didn't even glance. And I mean she was in doggy style for a minute, not just a second and we all know Nick likes doggy style hehe. He still didnt care to look. Did anybody else notice that? It happened at the end of the last episode. So maybe she is trying to get attention and we're not seeing it. 

[Blissfool]

1 hour ago, humbleopinion said:

Derek is not a POC "person of color" but his upper arms are a 96 Crayon box set with built in sharpener.

So THAT'S what POC means!

[Lily247]

On 9/9/2016 at 9:41 AM, Neurochick said:

Very true.  Today people want a soulmate.  The purpose of marriage, decades ago was to have children and plenty of them, to keep the species going.  If two people had very different interests, that was fine; men had their friends and women had theirs.  Today it seems that couples want to be each others everything and I can imagine that's hard for matchmakers, how to you pair two people who are looking for soul mates?

I can't even fault the experts, because I don't know what these people wrote on their questionnaires.  Did Heather say she was okay with smoking?  Did Derek say he smoked often?  Did Sonia say she was afraid of dogs?  Did Nick say he was in love with his dogs? 

The one thing they got totally wrong IMO was Lily and Tom, because of the bus, but so far they are the only couple who seem into each other. 

I agree 100%. I don't think its healthy to expect your spouse to be your everything. It is sooooooo important to spend time with friends and have interests outside of the marriage. This can also keep things from drying up and boredom. 

I don't even think all of these data could match people up, because the experts cant foresee chemistry. Look at Heather and Derek - I thought they would be sexual right away but they never even touch. And Sonia and ... Nick who can't really put sentences together well or make eye contact, and is afraid to put his hand near her boob after 2 weeks. OTOH, Tom and Lily on paper dont seem right, but apparantly (AS WE CAN SEE OVER AND OVER AGAIN) they are into each other.