S08.E21: Reunion Part 1

[Yours Truly]

I wonder why we have this need to regulate just how overt a person wants to display, what they feel are their life accomplishments, or what they feel is a very significant part of their lives and honor it through some outward and visible means. We wouldn't dream of stripping a women of their Widow's title if they so chose to introduce themselves as such. We wouldn't dream of reacting badly of a veteran asserting their past roles in the military and Veterans are know to don many, many items that make it clear they are representing their military connection regularly. Is it that it's only with things that aren't considered noble or selfless that we need to put limits on how overtly that particular pride is displayed? There is some perceived negativity assigned to  displays and in reality, unless someone is sending you to randomly fetch something or serve them I don't understand what true punishable act has been committed. Sure it can grate but I don't get why it's considered true asshole behavior.  I consider asshole behavior as something that negatively affects someone else by deliberate means. Not just behavior that only affects my mood due to my own perceptions of someone elses behavior. Sure we get annoyed with people. Not saying that doesn't happen but I don't understand why I'm any less pompous than the Dr. who corrects someone who addressed them as Mr. instead of Dr. if I find it necessary to be offended by their rather innocuous act.  And not only feel this way but to also feel it's my right to speak out on it like it's some crime that needs correcting just cause it bothers me.  Who am I to dictate how people display their pride in themselves? Hell we will YAAAAAASSSSS the hell out of a Drag Queen all day long. Is it because those are things that "matter" while other acts of self pride is too close to shoving privilege or authority down anothers throat? The only things that can be worn as a cape are things of an oppressed or struggled nature and not if it's as "vapid" as material or superficial? There's pride to be had in all walks of life. I hate this approach, especially from Carole that there are only certain things you should be allowed to scream from the rooftops about, but what doesn't make that list is:

-Being a stay a home mom

-Being a Countess

-Having traveled the world

-Battling a disease and succeeding (Jules is succeeding for the simple fact that she ain't dead yet)

I get it. I really do. But I hate the overall message of stifling self praise. Yes, yes, extreme cases can be mindnumbing but I would expect that average cases of it on a regular basis should be at the very least tolerable enough that you aren't sent into an absolute spin of hatred. My God. Annnnddddd if that's not possible I really wish people would just own it and say something like.

Carole: "yeah, there really is no reason for me to have an opinion on it but I can't stand Lu so I AM THERE popcorn in hand to watch and ready to throw some barbs." and when asked why "Cause at this point I just don't like Lu so yeah, I probably don't have anything more than petty grievances at this point but tell ya what, it is what it is"

Beth: "Lu pisses me off cause she bounces in bounces out like she's all that and like her shit don't stink and it bugs me, that's all I got".

All this reaching for some solid points to be made to justify the hatred. Just stop already. It's embarrassing.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Yours Truly]

33 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I don't recall Luann ever insisting anyone call her Countess.  I remember she asked to be introduced as Mrs. de Lesseps.  The first shot fired in the eight year war.  She did refer to Alex as The Count. I don't know if it was out of habit, or the producers did not want Alex de Lesseps and Alex McCord being confused.  My guess is the former.

I use the continental style of eating as an example of other countries customs and habits.  My brother eats continental style as he lived overseas for about 15 years.  The first time he "corrected" my dad. there was a colorful exchange.  I remember Luann and her table manners session with some young ladies-advising someone not to cut all their meat at one time as it is considered what one does for a child.  The same could be said for people who go out for Asian food and ask for a knife and fork.  It may not be disrespecting the Asian cultures just an inability to navigate the chopsticks. 

There is something that really bothers Bethenny about Luann adopting European customs, pronunciations, she brought it up Season 2 and said Luann's upbringing did not give her the proper background to write her book, and she did it again with the explanation of Luann's pronunciation of Radziwll, by making a fall flat joke about Luann being from Berlin, Connecticut.  It is as if Bethenny wants to erase the European living years from Luann. 

This is the part that really grates me. It's like they want Lu to be the version THEY think she should be based on the bits and pieces THEY know of her. Being castmates on this show and their very slim "friendships" none of there are in a position to pull that whole "bitch I knew you when you was a puffy haired tomboy living in Conneticut" card. The kind I might pull but don't even on my best friend who I grew up with since the age of 9 when she like to act like she was such "rule breaker" in high school and in her teens meanwhile she never broke curfew, cut school, drank or smoked weed. I mean she could hang and we had fun but girl stop tryna represent a lifestyle you weren't that down with. However I try not to cause when all is said and done she did run the same streets with us (up until curfew, LOL) she did manuever some of the same obstacles as a spanish girl in the BX and had the same adversities we all had so I can't really take any of that away. But I do rag her about how she tries represent herself a little more hardcore than she really was. Now I'm her friend with all the goods so yeah I can do that. But none of these ladies really know all there is to know and for them to constantly demand that she not pursue what they claim to be a "persona" pisses me off. It's like they think they can tell her who to be and because she refuses to behave as they want her to they attack. Who are they to say she isn't exactly what she presents. Sometimes, private, sometimes open, sometimes discreet and other times more inviting into her personal business. How is that not being who you are? Basically they hate Lu's whole time and place way of life and consider that being fake. Well that's their opinion. They can't force her to comply with what THEIR opinions of how she should be for this occasion or in that situation. It's been happening for seasons now and I'm so fucking over it. Just let her live for crying out loud. Not once aside from the whole Adam Carole thing have I seen Lu really compromise or interject on someone else living their lives to the point of hindering their longterm happiness.

For me it goes back to what you said before. In my book if you lived it then you should be able to talk about it.

[shoegal]

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

-Beth was the only one to believe that Lu was trying to take credit for Skinny Girl. She turned it into something for the rumor mill and therefore viola now it's fact that Lu was trying to take credit. Pulllleeezzzeee. Made up grievance #1

-Take Beth down, old news. Goes to show it's about she bugs NOW. Using 500 year old missteps is the point I'm referring to. That's just recycled bullshit.  Old News (therefore "made up" for this season) Grievance #2. Also, in what world is it okay for someone you had a conflict with to bubble over and have ridiculous outburst because the site of you invokes such dislike that they scrap their brain for dead and buried grievances as some sort of new reason to justify a random onslaught of pure evil where they start throwing everything from lies to exaggeration to shit that's none of their busines as insults cause well The Countess is in the room and has disturbed her delicate sensibilities just by claiming to have mentored Sonja? I mean that whole berserk insane unhinged attack wasn't provoked IN THE LEAST. But okay, that whole "I'd rather be introduced as Mrs. DeLesseps" from a million years is really a solid basis for the constant, constant, constant, ridiculousness the was spewed all over the season.

-Pedophile... hmmmmmmm not her fight. Bullshit Grievance #3. Sure hate her for it but as a bases for her own attack on Lu? Also, Zzzzzzzzzzzzz again old news and old grievances. So she doesn't like these things about Lu? I don't like certain things about people I know doesn't mean that when they enter the room and proceed to be their benign yet annoying self I start screaming WHORE, SLUTBAG, FUCKDOLL. Same with a coworker I personal don't get along with. Somehow going bat shit crazy doesn't seem to be the appropriate response to someone that irks. LOL. Where are the legitimate reasons for the onslaught THIS YEAR??????? Going over old news doesn't make it new again. Being triggered by old shit just doesn't cut it.

Personally, I think that when people believe it's their right to be nasty, mean and horrible to another person based on personality conflicts (some derived from past grievances) then to me that's bully behavior. When basically it just boils down to the fact that you aren't happy about the persons existence or their close proximity to you and you lash out because you resent having your space "compromised". That isn't any reason to be abusing people. They believe that they are being inconvenienced because they need to keep negative reactions (that are brought on by silly little nit picking triggers) in check so therefore they have some sort of right for the crazy nasty and vile behavior they've displayed. That's some disturbing logic right there and as I said above to me that is straight BULLY Behavior.. YUCK!!

Have a altercation based on something real not something recycled, imagined, DOESN'T AFFECT YOU or childish like "OhMaGawwwddd, Lu is suuuuccccchhh a conceited bitch and a whore"... Come the fuck on please. They really need to grow up. Have a reason beyond the 3rd grade level. Geeeezzzzz!

-Actually, others believed it as well, most notably Ramona, who schooled Lu in the kitchen at the Berkshires that she heard LuAnn try to take credit.  Second would be Heather, who previously had thought LuAnn deserved a car or something for helping to name Skinnygirl.  So, the idea that it was only Bethenny believed this and it's a "made up grievance" is bogus, and Bethenny is the only one who should be offended by this anyway, as Lu is taking credit for what Bethenny created. 

-The take Bethenny down was revived over the summer hiatus according to B, so not "old news" either.  As to what world is it OK for the sight of someone to send you into a tailspin of fighting and screaming?  The world of the Real Housewives.  It's pretty much SOP at this point. 

-Pedophile, not Bethenny's fight, but Carole's fight, whom we also were discussing having grievances against LuAnn.  Perhaps Bethenny just needs to send Lu an insincered 'apology' text that says "Sorry I called you a fuckdoll" with a giggle and all will be forgiven. 

Both Carole and Bethenny have claims of things that LuAnn has done to them AND claims of things about her personality they do not like.  I think personality conflicts are pretty universal, not just limited to the third grade set.  In fact, I'd venture to say the entire concept of the real housewives is based on personality conflicts.  Everybody is bitchy, everybody fights, there are teams and sides and there are unhinged attacks....and it's not just limited to the HW's.  LOL.

[mwell345]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

I don't recall Luann ever insisting anyone call her Countess.  I remember she asked to be introduced as Mrs. de Lesseps.  The first shot fired in the eight year war.  She did refer to Alex as The Count. I don't know if it was out of habit, or the producers did not want Alex de Lesseps and Alex McCord being confused.  My guess is the former.

 I recall a scene from season 1 or 2 where Bethenny and LuAnn got into a car and Bethenny introduced LuAnn to the driver as "LuAnn".  LuAnn promptly corrected her and said she should be introduced as "Countess DeLesseps" or maybe it was "Mrs Delesseps" - I can't remember which - anyone?

[ZaldamoWilder]

3 minutes ago, mwell345 said:

 I recall a scene from season 1 or 2 where Bethenny and LuAnn got into a car and Bethenny introduced LuAnn to the driver as "LuAnn".  LuAnn promptly corrected her and said she should be introduced as "Countess DeLesseps" or maybe it was "Mrs Delesseps" - I can't remember which - anyone?

She said to, like drivers and *people like that*, she should be introduced as Mrs. Delesseps.     I don't recall if she said service people or just people but the idea was don't introduce me to the help by my first name.     Her right and privilege.  And my lasting impression of Lu.

[QuinnM]

Quote

 I recall a scene from season 1 or 2 where Bethenny and LuAnn got into a car and Bethenny introduced LuAnn to the driver as "LuAnn".  LuAnn promptly corrected her and said she should be introduced as "Countess DeLesseps" or maybe it was "Mrs Delesseps" - I can't remember which - anyone?

That was Mrs Delesseps.  She did allude to Countess as not being necessary in that instance.  Bethenny did a talking head explaining that the driver was a friend doing her a favor so the whole servant/employer thing didn't really register with her.  But lets not forget forums spent years going on about Luanns Countess stick up her butt.  It does prove that it only takes one season to redeem oneself.  Countess was a good time last season and so this season everyone is totally ok with the friggin 'I'm getting married neener neener neener" act. 

I for one never cared for her and still don't care for her.  So Sonja can say whatever she wants.  Bethenny can scream whatever she wants.  And I can't wait to see this fabulous marriage.  Oh wait Tom says we will never see it.  Luann is a episode by episode player.  She wants a contract.  A good one just like Bethenny's.  Well Lu - you might have a problem.  Bravo is going to say, You want a contract?  Give us your wedding.  Can't wait.  Can't wait.

[zoeysmom]

31 minutes ago, Knuckles said:

This. And clearly Bethy wants to erase the porno films she made in LA in her twenties. Or the expensive boarding school she attended. And a great deal else. She's created a narrative for herself that is heavily edited, and by omission, dishonest.

When Bethenny came on she was very scrappy and independent.  I remember her being with a group of her fathers contemporaries and her dropping Sidney Frank's name (the architect of the 2 billion dollar sale of Grey Goose to Bacardi) as someone her father knew.  So there was always a little back and forth with the privelege she enjoyed and her self proclaimed orphan.  The first season was rough, Jill and Luann had no negative issues with their family, Ramona and Bethenny had family issues (later the great excuse for Ramona's misbehavior).  So I think it is important for Bethenny to continually revisit Luann's far less affluent upbringing.  Just because one is raised in a one bathroom house for nine people, doesn't mean they aren't taught manners. 

7 minutes ago, mwell345 said:

 I recall a scene from season 1 or 2 where Bethenny and LuAnn got into a car and Bethenny introduced LuAnn to the driver as "LuAnn".  LuAnn promptly corrected her and said she should be introduced as "Countess DeLesseps" or maybe it was "Mrs Delesseps" - I can't remember which - anyone?

It was Mrs. de Lesseps.  Luann cited it was the way she was brought up.

[Yours Truly]

13 minutes ago, shoegal said:

-Actually, others believed it as well, most notably Ramona, who schooled Lu in the kitchen at the Berkshires that she heard LuAnn try to take credit.  Second would be Heather, who previously had thought LuAnn deserved a car or something for helping to name Skinnygirl.  So, the idea that it was only Bethenny believed this and it's a "made up grievance" is bogus, and Bethenny is the only one who should be offended by this anyway, as Lu is taking credit for what Bethenny created. 

-The take Bethenny down was revived over the summer hiatus according to B, so not "old news" either.  As to what world is it OK for the sight of someone to send you into a tailspin of fighting and screaming?  The world of the Real Housewives.  It's pretty much SOP at this point. 

-Pedophile, not Bethenny's fight, but Carole's fight, whom we also were discussing having grievances against LuAnn.  Perhaps Bethenny just needs to send Lu an insincered 'apology' text that says "Sorry I called you a fuckdoll" with a giggle and all will be forgiven. 

Both Carole and Bethenny have claims of things that LuAnn has done to them AND claims of things about her personality they do not like.  I think personality conflicts are pretty universal, not just limited to the third grade set.  In fact, I'd venture to say the entire concept of the real housewives is based on personality conflicts.  Everybody is bitchy, everybody fights, there are teams and sides and there are unhinged attacks....and it's not just limited to the HW's.  LOL.

Yeah cause Beth turned it into the rumor that became true by sheer repeating.

I'm talking about from what was shown on the show all of Lu's references to that particular topic there was no inclination that Lu was trying to steal credit away. Also, that innocent display  and obvious joke (or maybe misunderstanding) made by Heather was a direct result of what WE SAW  shown on the show which was Lu's very simple and truthful description of what Beth inscription was about. This is the basis for Beth's continuous rant about Lu trying to take credit. That's why I don't put much stock in all the hearsay that came afterwards. We SAW what Lu ACTUALLY did.

How long are these boring issues supposed to be relevant?

Personality conflicts are common yes but using to justify "YOU'REAWHORESLUTBAGFUCKDOLL" reaction..?????? That is some real simple, lowbrow, scummy shit. I have to say. Can't figure out how it's anything but...

Edited September 7, 2016 by Yours Truly

[WireWrap]

7 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

That was Mrs Delesseps.  She did allude to Countess as not being necessary in that instance.  Bethenny did a talking head explaining that the driver was a friend doing her a favor so the whole servant/employer thing didn't really register with her.  But lets not forget forums spent years going on about Luanns Countess stick up her butt.  It does prove that it only takes one season to redeem oneself.  Countess was a good time last season and so this season everyone is totally ok with the friggin 'I'm getting married neener neener neener" act. 

I for one never cared for her and still don't care for her.  So Sonja can say whatever she wants.  Bethenny can scream whatever she wants.  And I can't wait to see this fabulous marriage.  Oh wait Tom says we will never see it.  Luann is a episode by episode player.  She wants a contract.  A good one just like Bethenny's.  Well Lu - you might have a problem.  Bravo is going to say, You want a contract?  Give us your wedding.  Can't wait.  Can't wait.

The driver was her then BF, Jason, driver, he was not Bethenny's friend and he was certainly not Luann's friend. Manners are taught at a young age and I guess the wolf parents never taught Bethenny manners or social graces ))eye roll((

Luann made the turn to a more relaxed Luann the season after Jill was fired and has gotten more down to earth each season since. That equates to 1/2 of the total seasons the show has been on the air.

Edited September 7, 2016 by WireWrap

[shoegal]

4 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Yeah cause Beth turned it into the rumor that became true by sheer repeating.

I'm talking about from what was shown on the show all of Lu's references to that particular topic there was no inclination that Lu was trying to steal credit away. Also, that innocent display  and obvious joke (or maybe misunderstanding) made by Heather was a direct result of what WE SAW  shown on the show which was Lu's very simple and truthful description of what Beth inscription was about. This is the basis for Beth's continuous rant about Lu trying to take credit. That's why I don't put much stock in all the hearsay that came afterwards. We SAW what Lu ACTUALLY did.

How long are these boring issues supposed to be relevant?

Personality conflicts are common yes but using to justify "YOU'REAWHORESLUTBAGFUCKDOLL" reaction..?????? That is some real simple, lowbrow, scummy shit. I have to say. Can't figure out how it's anything but...

We can't really say what Bethenny "turned into a rumor" because we are not privy to the entire lives of these women, what happens off season, what gets said to whom and who is saying what.  Just like the pedophile comment, it happened off season and LuAnn apparently screamed it at Carole across the room at a charity event.  What was shown on the show obviously indicated that LuAnn was trying to take some credit, why else would Heather tell Bethenny that she owes LuAnn a car for her contribution??  In the Berkshires, we hear LuAnn hedge around that "we were together", which insinuates that LuAnn had some involvement, which seems to be the line that LuAnn is pushing.  You may think these are boring or irrelevant issues, but clearly Bethenny and Carole do not. 

[motorcitymom65]

4 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

That was Mrs Delesseps.  She did allude to Countess as not being necessary in that instance.  Bethenny did a talking head explaining that the driver was a friend doing her a favor so the whole servant/employer thing didn't really register with her.  But lets not forget forums spent years going on about Luanns Countess stick up her butt.  It does prove that it only takes one season to redeem oneself.  Countess was a good time last season and so this season everyone is totally ok with the friggin 'I'm getting married neener neener neener" act. 

I for one never cared for her and still don't care for her.  So Sonja can say whatever she wants.  Bethenny can scream whatever she wants.  And I can't wait to see this fabulous marriage.  Oh wait Tom says we will never see it.  Luann is a episode by episode player.  She wants a contract.  A good one just like Bethenny's.  Well Lu - you might have a problem.  Bravo is going to say, You want a contract?  Give us your wedding.  Can't wait.  Can't wait.

This. Especially the part in bold. I am mystified by folks thinking that this all just happened out of thin air. It did not. I'm not talking about how the other gals react to her; I'm talking about how the audience reacted to Lu in those early seasons. She was not well liked by most and was hammered away at on all forums I use to read. The deal with the driver, the way she seemed to have little/no interest in her children, appearing to many more interested in the social scene than staying at home with her kids. The thing with her kids overtook Lu's narrative in the early seasons. She was endlessly mocked for not being an involved or interested mother and for letting the nanny do most of the child rearing. The way she tutored those young girls in the fine art of having manners, and how she seemed to think Beth had the whole dating thing wrong. By and large, folks didn't like the Countess back then, and impressions stick for many. She did change, IMO, and I think that everyone liked the new/improved/single Lu more than they ever did the Countess. The Countess was fake, snobby, and easy to not like. The charge this year is that she is morphing back into that person. 

[shoegal]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

I don't recall Luann ever insisting anyone call her Countess.  I remember she asked to be introduced as Mrs. de Lesseps.  The first shot fired in the eight year war.  She did refer to Alex as The Count. I don't know if it was out of habit, or the producers did not want Alex de Lesseps and Alex McCord being confused.  My guess is the former.

I use the continental style of eating as an example of other countries customs and habits.  My brother eats continental style as he lived overseas for about 15 years.  The first time he "corrected" my dad. there was a colorful exchange.  I remember Luann and her table manners session with some young ladies-advising someone not to cut all their meat at one time as it is considered what one does for a child.  The same could be said for people who go out for Asian food and ask for a knife and fork.  It may not be disrespecting the Asian cultures just an inability to navigate the chopsticks. 

There is something that really bothers Bethenny about Luann adopting European customs, pronunciations, she brought it up Season 2 and said Luann's upbringing did not give her the proper background to write her book, and she did it again with the explanation of Luann's pronunciation of Radziwll, by making a fall flat joke about Luann being from Berlin, Connecticut.  It is as if Bethenny wants to erase the European living years from Luann. 

LOL, I seem to recall LuAnn making sure the pizza guy knew "Countess de Lesseps!!!" was ordering her pizza.  This idea that LuAnn has not insisted on being called the Countess is super funny to me, because as has been established, LuAnn has created her entire persona/brand around the fake ass courtesy "Countess" title (of which the Count divorced her ass 5 years ago!!).  Class with the Countess.  The Countess Collection.  Countess LuAnn singing "This is the Countess speaking...."  I mean, that woman has taken the Countess and wrapped herself up in it like she's a toddler with a security blanket.  She won't even give it up when she marries a "commoner" and has to "give up her title"!!!  She's fucking delusional.  She's bordering on Sonja JP Morgan delusional. 

Edited September 7, 2016 by shoegal

[WireWrap]

18 minutes ago, shoegal said:

-Actually, others believed it as well, most notably Ramona, who schooled Lu in the kitchen at the Berkshires that she heard LuAnn try to take credit.  Second would be Heather, who previously had thought LuAnn deserved a car or something for helping to name Skinnygirl.  So, the idea that it was only Bethenny believed this and it's a "made up grievance" is bogus, and Bethenny is the only one who should be offended by this anyway, as Lu is taking credit for what Bethenny created. 

-The take Bethenny down was revived over the summer hiatus according to B, so not "old news" either.  As to what world is it OK for the sight of someone to send you into a tailspin of fighting and screaming?  The world of the Real Housewives.  It's pretty much SOP at this point. 

-Pedophile, not Bethenny's fight, but Carole's fight, whom we also were discussing having grievances against LuAnn.  Perhaps Bethenny just needs to send Lu an insincered 'apology' text that says "Sorry I called you a fuckdoll" with a giggle and all will be forgiven. 

Both Carole and Bethenny have claims of things that LuAnn has done to them AND claims of things about her personality they do not like.  I think personality conflicts are pretty universal, not just limited to the third grade set.  In fact, I'd venture to say the entire concept of the real housewives is based on personality conflicts.  Everybody is bitchy, everybody fights, there are teams and sides and there are unhinged attacks....and it's not just limited to the HW's.  LOL.

No, Ramona was repeating what Bethenny told her and she pretty much said just that. Heather went by what Bethenny, herself, wrote to Luann in that book, not by anything Luann told her. So, again, this all stems from Bethenny but not Luann.

As for the rumored "take down" again, it was a rumor that Bethenny claimed, no one else agreed with her.

Bethenny will never apologize, insincere or not, she is never wrong, she "knows it all" even when she doesn't.

Most of Bethenny's claims are things that Luann has apologized for in the past or are rumors/secondhand info and according to Bethenny, no one is allowed to use secondhand info. 

Yes, Carole had a legit gripe/problem with Luann and she made Luann squirm until she got a sincere apology, which she accepted, so move on at this point. They don't have to be close/friends but stop beating the long dead and buried horse for pity's sake. 

3 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

This. Especially the part in bold. I am mystified by folks thinking that this all just happened out of thin air. It did not. I'm not talking about how the other gals react to her; I'm talking about how the audience reacted to Lu in those early seasons. She was not well liked by most and was hammered away at on all forums I use to read. The deal with the driver, the way she seemed to have little/no interest in her children, appearing to many more interested in the social scene than staying at home with her kids. The thing with her kids overtook Lu's narrative in the early seasons. She was endlessly mocked for not being an involved or interested mother and for letting the nanny do most of the child rearing. The way she tutored those young girls in the fine art of having manners, and how she seemed to think Beth had the whole dating thing wrong. By and large, folks didn't like the Countess back then, and impressions stick for many. She did change, IMO, and I think that everyone liked the new/improved/single Lu more than they ever did the Countess. The Countess was fake, snobby, and easy to not like. The charge this year is that she is morphing back into that person. 

Yes, Luann was pretentious the first 3 - 4 seasons on the show but has been different since Jill was fired 4 years ago and even more so when she was demoted to FOH 3 years ago. Can she still act that way, sure but she has shown growth/maturity, more so than Ramona, Sonja or Bethenny combined IMO.

[QuinnM]

Quote

Bethenny will never apologize, insincere or not, she is never wrong, she "knows it all" even when she doesn't.

She did apologize to Luann at the Berkshires.  So there are times she apologizes.

I think one of the best was with John at her party.  Both she and John apologized to each other.  Agreed that they were never going to be besties but that they both loved Dorinda and that their feud was only hurting Dorinda.  So they agreed to be adults and just be okay because neither of them wanted to hurt Dorinda.  That was really classy on both Bethenny and John's part.  It was one my favorite moments in the season.

[Yours Truly]

17 minutes ago, shoegal said:

We can't really say what Bethenny "turned into a rumor" because we are not privy to the entire lives of these women, what happens off season, what gets said to whom and who is saying what.  Just like the pedophile comment, it happened off season and LuAnn apparently screamed it at Carole across the room at a charity event.  What was shown on the show obviously indicated that LuAnn was trying to take some credit, why else would Heather tell Bethenny that she owes LuAnn a car for her contribution??  In the Berkshires, we hear LuAnn hedge around that "we were together", which insinuates that LuAnn had some involvement, which seems to be the line that LuAnn is pushing.  You may think these are boring or irrelevant issues, but clearly Bethenny and Carole do not. 

That was a joke.

Plus I think Heather did think there was more to it than just Lu being there with Beth when it was first brought on camera as a PRODUCT but that's because Beth's joking inscription suggested there was. I think Lu's explanation along with Beth's inscription that actually pushed that angle more than Lu's take is what prompted Heather to make that joke and even assume Lu had a more involved role. It played right out on screen.

I don't believe that there are any other instances besides this one and the only other talk of it happens when someone decides they want to revisit that particular exchange  (Lu, Heather, Carole then Heather joking with Beth) whether it's with Lu or Beth therefore making it a "new" attempt at taking credit. Yawn....

I do believe after the millionth unjustified melt down by Beth Lu does like to chap Beth's ass by not letting her completely rewrite history and why should she let her anyway? That's when Lu reminds Beth that she was present. Beth now acts like she was across town sealing the deal with Jim Bean way before she sat down at that table with Lu and ordered it on camera for the first time.  Those little digs I don't mind cause Beth's asking for 'em.. LOL

Edited September 7, 2016 by Yours Truly

[shoegal]

Just now, WireWrap said:

No, Ramona was repeating what Bethenny told her and she pretty much said just that. Heather went by what Bethenny, herself, wrote to Luann in that book, not by anything Luann told her. So, again, this all stems from Bethenny but not Luann.

As for the rumored "take down" again, it was a rumor that Bethenny claimed, no one else agreed with her.

Bethenny will never apologize, insincere or not, she is never wrong, she "knows it all" even when she doesn't.

Most of Bethenny's claims are things that Luann has apologized for in the past or are rumors/secondhand info and according to Bethenny, no one is allowed to use secondhand info. 

Yes, Carole had a legit gripe/problem with Luann and she made Luann squirm until she got a sincere apology, which she accepted, so move on at this point. They don't have to be close/friends but stop beating the long dead and buried horse for pity's sake. 

Ramona said 'I was there, I heard it', she was not repeating what Bethenny said, she was backing up that Bethenny was right to be offended by what LuAnn was saying.  IIRC, the conversation about the car first happened between Heather and LuAnn (maybe off camera) because Heather repeats it to Bethenny something like 'I was telling Lu you owe her a car for naming SkinnyGirl!'.....it sounds like LuAnn did not correct Heather and Heather was left with the impression that LuAnn did help name SG.

Bethenny did apologize to LuAnn, and her apology was about as sincere as LuAnn's apologies to Bethenny and Carole about the SG/pedophile comments. 

As far as LuAnn and Carole, it seemed Carole did get over the hurt that LuAnn caused her and was genuinely happy for Lu and nice to her....because LuAnn is embarrassed that Tom HER SOULMATE got outed as a big old cheater/loser, LuAnn is now on a rampage and Carole is getting caught in the wake.  I guess LuAnn quickly forgot the only one that was happy for her out of all the other "bitches" was Carole.

[ryebread]

Why did Beth declare Lu a snake in season 3?  I can't remember their issue then. Seems like, from this clip, Luann felt that Beth thought she was a skanky cheater way back then, too.  Her hatred is long lasting and deep seated.

Had to laugh at Bethenny's, "You're talking about me and I'm right here."  Well, she was right - that's not very Countessy, Lulu.  But Bethenny has done the exact same thing several times this season.  SkinnyHippo Crit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eHKIQ0GVG0

[zoeysmom]

2 minutes ago, shoegal said:

LOL, I seem to recall LuAnn making sure the pizza guy knew "Countess de Lesseps!!!" was ordering her pizza.  This idea that LuAnn has not insisted on being called the Countess is super funny to me, because as has been established, LuAnn has created her entire persona/brand around the fake ass courtesy "Countess" title (of which the Count divorced her ass 5 years ago!!).  Class with the Countess.  The Countess Collection.  Countess LuAnn singing "This is the Countess speaking...."  I mean, that woman has taken the Countess and wrapped herself up in it like she's a toddler with a security blanket.  She won't even give it up when she marries a "commoner" and has to "give up her title"!!!  She's fucking delulsional.  She's bordering on Sonja JP Morgan delusional. 

Luann was ordering pizza and first said Mrs. de Lesseps and then said, "Countess de Lesseps,"  turned to her mother and started laughing. 

So there is once, to a person on the telephone-who I am sure got a bigger laugh out of it then Luann and her mom.

It really isn't a fake ass courtesy title-it is recognized in Europe.

There is a huge difference between calling oneself the Countess and demanding others address you the same way.  Andy constantly calls her Countess, he even referred to her when asking Hugh Grant about having dinner with her.

She is giving up the title but not the moniker.  Just as Ivana Trump uses her ex-ex husband's last name.  Some names people identify with.

4 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

She did apologize to Luann at the Berkshires.  So there are times she apologizes.

I think one of the best was with John at her party.  Both she and John apologized to each other.  Agreed that they were never going to be besties but that they both loved Dorinda and that their feud was only hurting Dorinda.  So they agreed to be adults and just be okay because neither of them wanted to hurt Dorinda.  That was really classy on both Bethenny and John's part.  It was one my favorite moments in the season.

Actually Bethenny apologized about Luann making her go there.  There was no apology-just justification.  Since she has continually repeated the behavior I would say it was insincere, or in her words being a liar and a hypocrite.

[Yours Truly]

1 minute ago, ryebread said:

Why did Beth declare Lu a snake in season 3?  I can't remember their issue then. Seems like, from this clip, Luann felt that Beth thought she was a skanky cheater way back then, too.  Her hatred is long lasting and deep seated.

Had to laugh at Bethenny's, "You're talking about me and I'm right here."  Well, she was right - that's not very Countessy, Lulu.  But Bethenny has done the exact same thing several times this season.  SkinnyHippo Crit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eHKIQ0GVG0

Dude I have no idea what so ever why Beth had that melt down either. I recall the fashion show exchange where Lu said something about Beth's attendance and Beth reacting negatively to it and for the life of me I don't even know what was the conniving little barb Lu was supposed to be hinting at with that one.

I know it's off topic but since Beth sited 8 years of built up grievances and that exchange displayed some of it so could anyone quickly explain what Lu actually said and what Beth took it to mean. I'm still unsure why Countess showing confusion at some detail (I'm still not clear about) was supposed to be such an insult.

[shoegal]

5 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Luann was ordering pizza and first said Mrs. de Lesseps and then said, "Countess de Lesseps,"  turned to her mother and started laughing. 

So there is once, to a person on the telephone-who I am sure got a bigger laugh out of it then Luann and her mom.

It really isn't a fake ass courtesy title-it is recognized in Europe.

There is a huge difference between calling oneself the Countess and demanding others address you the same way.  Andy constantly calls her Countess, he even referred to her when asking Hugh Grant about having dinner with her.

She is giving up the title but not the moniker.  Just as Ivana Trump uses her ex-ex husband's last name.  Some names people identify with.

Actually Bethenny apologized about Luann making her go there.  There was no apology-just justification.  Since she has continually repeated the behavior I would say it was insincere, or in her words being a liar and a hypocrite.

There is no longer a French monarchy.  It's a courtesy at this point, with no privileges.  LuAnn is not granting land grants (although you know that bitch would if she could!)  "Giving up the title"!!!  Seriously.  Delusional.  Sonja JP Morgan delusional. 

[Yours Truly]

10 minutes ago, shoegal said:

There is no longer a French monarchy.  It's a courtesy at this point, with no privileges.  LuAnn is not granting land grants (although you know that bitch would if she could!)  "Giving up the title"!!!  Seriously.  Delusional.  Sonja JP Morgan delusional. 

Ya know it does happen to still be impressive to some people.

No amount of Beth's yelling or Carole's condescending changes that.

It's not everyone's cup of tea but it's still a relevant detail to others. Lu isn't wrong because she's aware of this and chooses to delight in that very real and true detail. It's not like she's imagining it. She knows some turn down their nose, some are indifferent and others lap that shit up.

Basically there's still use for it. She would rather hold on to a piece of it. And it hurts nobody. So there you have it. What on earth is the Big?

Edited September 7, 2016 by Yours Truly

[shoegal]

I'm still giggling at the idea that LuAnn has to "give up her title". 

LuAnn, Princess Elsa (she's a real princess!) has a message for you:  Let it go......LET IT GO!!!...

[motorcitymom65]

8 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Ya know it does happen to still be impressive to some people.

No amount of Beth's yelling or Carole's condescending changes that.

It's not everyone's cup of tea but it's still a relevant detail to others. Lu isn't wrong because she's aware of this and chooses to delight in that very real and true detail. It's not like she's imagining it. She knows some turn down their nose, some are indifferent and others lap that shit up.

Basically there's still use for it. She would rather hold on to a piece of it. And it hurts nobody. So there you have it. What on earth is the Big?

Personally I don't think it would be a "thing" at all if they liked her or thought she was a nice person. They don't, and she isn't, so it makes the list of things that make her ridiculous amd delusional. Yes, Sonja JP Morgan delusional (thanks Shoegal). It exemplifies all the reasons they think she is fake and snobby. If she was a good person, it would just be kind of eccentric. Kind of funny and perhaps endearing. Since she is not a particularly good person, it just seems elitist and wrong. 

[Yours Truly]

13 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Personally I don't think it would be a "thing" at all if they liked her or thought she was a nice person. They don't, and she isn't, so it makes the list of things that make her ridiculous amd delusional. Yes, Sonja JP Morgan delusional (thanks Shoegal). It exemplifies all the reasons they think she is fake and snobby. If she was a good person, it would just be kind of eccentric. Kind of funny and perhaps endearing. Since she is not a particularly good person, it just seems elitist and wrong. 

That's the thing according to THEM.

Not according to me. I think its endearing. Love. Love. Love it.

Not according to some people in her life. They find it fun.

Not according to Andy. He like's the charm AND scandal of it all and that's it's attached to one of his precious franchises

Not according to her deals. They like the branding.

Point being just because some don't like it doesn't mean there isn't a valid reason for her to continue playing with it. Or cherishing it. Or holding it dear. Oh promoting it. Or referring to it.

As long is there are positive reasons for it to continue hovering around her life and people who indeed get a kick out of it then I don't see why the made up, ridiculous, hair up asses reasons from the rest of the cast should deter her from utilizing it any way she pleases.

Wasted energy I think. Some of these women need fairy dust in their lives.. LOL.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Yours Truly

[shoegal]

19 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Personally I don't think it would be a "thing" at all if they liked her or thought she was a nice person. They don't, and she isn't, so it makes the list of things that make her ridiculous amd delusional. Yes, Sonja JP Morgan delusional (thanks Shoegal). It exemplifies all the reasons they think she is fake and snobby. If she was a good person, it would just be kind of eccentric. Kind of funny and perhaps endearing. Since she is not a particularly good person, it just seems elitist and wrong. 

You are welcome!  :)  LuAnn clings to her fake and snobby "title" like Sonja clings to P Diddy on her yacht.  Both of those ships have sailed, ladies.  Brings me to my favorite Kristin moment.......DE-LU-SIONAL! 

Edited September 7, 2016 by shoegal

[sasha206]

I should probably post this elsewhere, but can I just say how much I enjoy everyone here?  Even if we don't agree, it's fun to spend endless hours talking about these idiots!  And so many of you make me giggle in your witty remarks.  Helps pass the time (especially as someone who works at home and lacks social hour!)

[jinjer]

I think it's more like Dr.  Doctors introduce themselves all the time as Dr. so and so.  They are the real pretentious ones.  Don't even get me started on the Ph.D. doctors. hahaha.

[Nanny pants]

Let's see...someone tries to take credit for a business idea of mine.  That COMPLETELY justifies me calling her a "fuckdoll" on national television.  Good lord, Bethenny.  Get a grip.

[HunterHunted]

12 minutes ago, shoegal said:

You are welcome!  :)  LuAnn clings to her fake and snobby "title" like Sonja clings to P Diddy on her yacht.  Both of those ships have sailed, ladies.  Brings me to my favorite Kristin moment.......DE-LU-SIONAL! 

This is off topic, but related. People who know me know how Maya Angelou's insistence that she be addressed as Dr. Angelou despite never having earned a doctorate degree irritates the shit out of me. Earning a doctorate degree is hard work. You can't just walk around and demand that people call you doctor when the degree is honorary.

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, shoegal said:

Ramona said 'I was there, I heard it', she was not repeating what Bethenny said, she was backing up that Bethenny was right to be offended by what LuAnn was saying.  IIRC, the conversation about the car first happened between Heather and LuAnn (maybe off camera) because Heather repeats it to Bethenny something like 'I was telling Lu you owe her a car for naming SkinnyGirl!'.....it sounds like LuAnn did not correct Heather and Heather was left with the impression that LuAnn did help name SG.

Bethenny did apologize to LuAnn, and her apology was about as sincere as LuAnn's apologies to Bethenny and Carole about the SG/pedophile comments. 

As far as LuAnn and Carole, it seemed Carole did get over the hurt that LuAnn caused her and was genuinely happy for Lu and nice to her....because LuAnn is embarrassed that Tom HER SOULMATE got outed as a big old cheater/loser, LuAnn is now on a rampage and Carole is getting caught in the wake.  I guess LuAnn quickly forgot the only one that was happy for her out of all the other "bitches" was Carole.

No, Ramona heard Bethenny repeat it at the table earlier then advised Luann to just go ahead and apologize anyway even though Luann told her she never claimed she "started" SKG, which is what Bethenny claims Luann said.

Heather read a hand written Thank You that Bethenny, herself, wrote in a book she gave Luann. Bethenny Thanked Luann for "helping her" with SKG. They all talked about it last season and Bethenny admitted to writing it, hence Heather saying/teasing that Bethenny should buy Luann a car.

No, she didn't apologize to Luann, she said it to Carole when they were alone in their bedroom.

Yes, Carole did support Luann initially then she went down the Bethenny rabbit hole and has stayed there since. Both Bethenny and Carole have been ranting about Luann/Tom since filming ended, even before the reunion was filmed. They blast them in interviews, SM and on Bethenny's radio show. Sadly, Carole has been a willing participant in Bethenny's rage against all things Luann and Tom.

1 hour ago, QuinnM said:

She did apologize to Luann at the Berkshires.  So there are times she apologizes.

I think one of the best was with John at her party.  Both she and John apologized to each other.  Agreed that they were never going to be besties but that they both loved Dorinda and that their feud was only hurting Dorinda.  So they agreed to be adults and just be okay because neither of them wanted to hurt Dorinda.  That was really classy on both Bethenny and John's part.  It was one my favorite moments in the season.

No, she said she was sorry about going there/getting like that to Carole, not Luann.

[Yours Truly]

3 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

No, Ramona heard Bethenny repeat it at the table earlier then advised Luann to just go ahead and apologize anyway even though Luann told her she never claimed she "started" SKG, which is what Bethenny claims Luann said.

Heather read a hand written Thank You that Bethenny, herself, wrote in a book she gave Luann. Bethenny Thanked Luann for "helping her" with SKG. They all talked about it last season and Bethenny admitted to writing it, hence Heather saying/teasing that Bethenny should buy Luann a car.

No, she didn't apologize to Luann, she said it to Carole when they were alone in their bedroom.

Yes, Carole did support Luann initially then she went down the Bethenny rabbit hole and has stayed there since. Both Bethenny and Carole have been ranting about Luann/Tom since filming ended, even before the reunion was filmed. They blast them in interviews, SM and on Bethenny's radio show. Sadly, Carole has been a willing participant in Bethenny's rage against all things Luann and Tom.

Sexual tension maybe? If Adam's energy in the bedroom is the same limp noodle presence he shows when he's in the same room with her...... What better way than joining twisted sister Beth in letting off some skinny girl steam.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Otherkate]

I don't take issue with Lu hanging on to Countess. I think it is her "brand" so whatever. But, I think I'm also in the Andy camp with regards to Countess. It's amusing to me and kind of charming in a ridiculous way. 

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, QuinnM said:

She did apologize to Luann at the Berkshires.  So there are times she apologizes.

I think one of the best was with John at her party.  Both she and John apologized to each other.  Agreed that they were never going to be besties but that they both loved Dorinda and that their feud was only hurting Dorinda.  So they agreed to be adults and just be okay because neither of them wanted to hurt Dorinda.  That was really classy on both Bethenny and John's part.  It was one my favorite moments in the season.

No, she told Luann she was "sorry that Luann made her go there"! That is not an apology, it is a justification! LOL

[WireWrap]

2 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Sexual tension maybe? If Adam's energy in the bedroom is the same limp noodle presence he shows when he's in the same room with her...... What better way than joining twisted sister Beth in letting off some skinny girl steam.

Ouch! LOL

No, I think Carole is a ride or die kind of friend, even when she disagrees with her friends. She could counsel Heather to rethink things she said/did without fear of Heather getting mad at her (and visa versa) but IMO, she know that Bethenny will never allow that in their friendship so she goes along with whatever and adopts the same thoughts to the friend she knows Bethenny wants/demands.  Bethenny demands total loyalty no matter what so Carole does just that. Notice that Carole is a different person when Bethenny is not around, she laughs more and looks more relaxed IMO.

[izabella]

47 minutes ago, shoegal said:

You are welcome!  :)  LuAnn clings to her fake and snobby "title" like Sonja clings to P Diddy on her yacht.  Both of those ships have sailed, ladies.  Brings me to my favorite Kristin moment.......DE-LU-SIONAL! 

The thing is, she has a clothing line that is generating revenue, and the line is called the Countess Collection or some such.  Countess is a brand, like Skinnycrap, and it's a money-maker for her so she isn't going to drop that brand name just because she doesn't hold the "official" title, whatever that is or isn't, or just because it bugs Bethy and Carole. Countess.  Why should she stop using the Countess brand?   It's hers to use as she will to make money, and she doesn't expect anyone to call her Countess, so it's ridiculous that this is even a thing.  It's her product brand name.

Edited September 7, 2016 by izabella

[breezy424]

4 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

I get this, but their point might be that she's not a Countess anymore and even when she was, being addressed as such was only of significance to her.   It was a rare occasion on which one of the other hws called her Countess and usually at her insistence.   By that logic Carole really should be able to comfortably be Princess Radziwill.   I don't think they're being dismissive of Lu's right to use and be proud of the title so much as how much of a screwball she sounds using it in an everyday context.   Lawyers are their name followed by *, Esq.*    Nobody in the history of attorneydom has ever introduced themselves or been introduced as John Q. Smith, Esquire, pleased to meet you.  When they could, as they've legitimately earned the title.   The self inflatedness of a doctor wearing scrubs on their day off or a cop pulling somebody over in their personal car.  That.  Like.  {{shrug}} sure you can, but it's an obnoxious dick move really.

But that ain't even what I wanted to bother you about lol, what is this American vs. European fork and knife?  I didn't know this was a thing.   Whenever I watch four weddings it bugs the shit out of me to see the brides at the reception hold their cutlery and I'd sound crazy trying to articulate why, but it's not "down" facing the food, they look like they're about to start fencing with their knife and fork.  It looks wrong.     I need more words about it please  ;)

I don't recall Lu ever insisting that anyone call her 'Countess'.

Here's a wiki on continental versus American style of using a fork and knife:

http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Fork-and-Knife

[shoegal]

14 minutes ago, izabella said:

The thing is, she has a clothing line that is generating revenue, and the line is called the Countess Collection or some such.  Countess is a brand, like Skinnycrap, and it's a money-maker for her so she isn't going to drop that brand name just because she doesn't hold the "official" title, whatever that is or isn't, or just because it bugs Bethy and Carole. Countess.  Why should she stop using the Countess brand?   It's hers to use as she will to make money, and she doesn't expect anyone to call her Countess, so it's ridiculous that this is even a thing.  It's her product brand name.

The point is that LuAnn has branded herself The Countess, she's going to cling to that fake ass courtesy title for all she's worth, because ALLS I know is THE COUNTESS DOES NOT DRINK BEER FROM A BOTTLE, Y'all. 

Poor noble Lu, now she's going to have to "give up the title" and marry a commoner, like she's Princess Di.  LOL

Edited September 7, 2016 by shoegal

[Ki-in]

The real problem isn't Countess vs Princess with their dead, worthless titles, it is that Luann was beauty Queen. She didn't even know there was going to be a beauty pageant and she won, twice (once here and once in Italy).  Carole and Bethenny couldn't even win honorable mention at Westminster and it eats them up with their hatred and it shows in thier faces. Luann has a joie de vivre that those two old hags never had and never will

[KungFuBunny]

On 9/5/2016 at 1:43 PM, RedheadZombie said:

To win a slander suit, don't you have to prove the accusation was false and the accuser knew it?  Beth could call Sonja's big mouth to the stand, and she'll happily spill. Plus, suing draws more attention to it.   Personally, I could care less if the owner of my dry cleaner used cocaine.  I understand being upset at the accusation, but it's opening a can of worms to go for slander.   There's a reason celebrities ignore most tabloids. 

Yes, the first thing the plaintiff (John & Dorinda) would have to do is PROVE the statement made was false. The best and most accurate way would be the hair drug test.

I have a feeling if there are pictures (which don't prove what substance it is) they implicate Jules. I say this because Bethenny said she doesn't want to ruin families.

[kassa]

The "American" way of using the knife and fork is actually the way people in England used the knife and fork back when the colonies were settled. Well, posh folk, anyway.  It's the older, more traditional and formal way of eating.   

So no need to feel inferior about switching hands.  It's the Europeans who developed a shortcut to shoveling the food to the mouth faster, not the Americans who overcomplicated things unnecesssarily.

[KungFuBunny]

4 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanisław_Albrecht_Radziwiłł

I didn't see anything about relinquishing, but if wikipedia can ever be relied upon, it seems it was bestowed by courtesy.  Either way you're right about it, I'm sorry, he was not, in fact a crowned Prince.    I don't wanna muddle, I know Luann was an actual Countess, my point isn't that she wasn't.  It's that her insistence of use (if/when she insists) of a courtesy title is as pretentious as the examples I cited above.   But if we're gonna stick to the significance of titles, Carole's courtesy tiara beats Lu's courtesy sash all day. 

eta:  sorry, not to address the other celebs in your post.   Those were all nicknames (excluding Countess Vaughn, that's her actual name), no minimizing but that's apples and oranges.

Princess Di had a number of titles taken away from her when Charles divorced her. Princess Di was royalty. The Count and Countess titles are nobility – so I don’t know what the rules are.

On a side note, did you know John is nobility? John is the Earl of Body Sandwiches.

[HunterHunted]

17 minutes ago, Ki-in said:

The real problem isn't Countess vs Princess with their dead, worthless titles, it is that Luann was beauty Queen. She didn't even know there was going to be a beauty pageant and she won, twice (once here and once in Italy).  Carole and Bethenny couldn't even win honorable mention at Westminster and it eats them up with their hatred and it shows in thier faces. Luann has a joie de vivre that those two old hags never had and never will

In your opinion. I've always been perplexed by all the insistence that LuAnn is some great beauty. I don't see it and I've never seen it. Nor have I  thought that she has this amazing sense of style. Beyond that, I've never thought that beauty or lack of it is something to use to demean or denigrate others.

Aside from her appearance and her bullshit title, LuAnn has lived an interesting life that is compelling enough for her to brag about it on the show. But I also think Carole and Bethenny have lived interesting lives too. In fact, I find Carole's life so interesting because she was not only creatively and professionally fulfilled, but her work as a journalist impacted people in the US and around the globe. That's something to be proud of and it's something to aspire to. Bethenny has lived an interesting life, but it's enough of a horror show that I'm not the least bit envious.

Carole and Bethenny have their own reasons to not like LuAnn that have nothing to do with looks or her ability to snag a man. Furthermore, I feel like arguments that posit that Carole and Bethenny don't like LuAnn because of jealousy over looks and men to be hilariously retrograde and frankly a bit misogynistic.

Just like I feel that Sonja's sourness over LuAnn and Tom's engagement has less to do with wanting a relationship with Tom and more to do with her wistfulness and melancholy about her previous relationships and how she's screwed her reputation up so badly that she can't get the kind of relationship and wealth that she longs for. I think she's slowly coming to the realization that if she wants the kind of lifestyle she used to have, she needs get her act together and do it herself.

[jaync]

If Bethany can call herself a black woman, then Luann can call herself a countess.

[film noire]

1 minute ago, jaync said:

If Bethany can call herself a black woman, then Luann can call herself a countess.

LOL!

[Otherkate]

5 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Carole and Bethenny have their own reasons to not like LuAnn that have nothing to do with looks or her ability to snag a man. Furthermore, I feel like arguments that posit that Carole and Bethenny don't like LuAnn because of jealousy over looks and men to be hilariously retrograde and frankly a bit misogynistic.

 

Totally agree with this. Not enough likes in the world for it.

That said, I once walked by Lu on the street and she is fucking gorgeous. Smaller than I would have expected. She was smiling up a storm. The Countess does seem like she'd be fun. 

[Ki-in]

They may not be jealous of her looks but her attitude and the fact that she does radiate a certain quality (charisma) that those two wet blankets just don't have. And Lu seems to roll with the punches and land on her feet while those two are mired in their own misery and hate and take grudge holding to epic proportions.

[ZaldamoWilder]

1 hour ago, KungFuBunny said:

Princess Di had a number of titles taken away from her when Charles divorced her. Princess Di was royalty. The Count and Countess titles are nobility – so I don’t know what the rules are.

On a side note, did you know John is nobility? John is the Earl of Body Sandwiches.

Just one.  The sitting monarch of the country the nobleman/woman is from makes the rules.   She retained Princess and was stripped of ever again being referred to as her royal highness.   Officially, it's not like somebody would've gone to Queen Jail or something if they'd slipped up and called her highness.   She was born a royal and then became a crowned Princess, so I guess the idea is it's possible to be stripped of your title, but not your nobility. 

30 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

In your opinion. I've always been perplexed by all the insistence that LuAnn is some great beauty. I don't see it and I've never seen it. Nor have I  thought that she has this amazing sense of style. Beyond that, I've never thought that beauty or lack of it is something to use to demean or denigrate others.

Aside from her appearance and her bullshit title, LuAnn has lived an interesting life that is compelling enough for her to brag about it on the show. But I also think Carole and Bethenny have lived interesting lives too. In fact, I find Carole's life so interesting because she was not only creatively and professionally fulfilled, but her work as a journalist impacted people in the US and around the globe. That's something to be proud of and it's something to aspire to. Bethenny has lived an interesting life, but it's enough of a horror show that I'm not the least bit envious.

Carole and Bethenny have their own reasons to not like LuAnn that have nothing to do with looks or her ability to snag a man. Furthermore, I feel like arguments that posit that Carole and Bethenny don't like LuAnn because of jealousy over looks and men to be hilariously retrograde and frankly a bit misogynistic.

Just like I feel that Sonja's sourness over LuAnn and Tom's engagement has less to do with wanting a relationship with Tom and more to do with her wistfulness and melancholy about her previous relationships and how she's screwed her reputation up so badly that she can't get the kind of relationship and wealth that she longs for. I think she's slowly coming to the realization that if she wants the kind of lifestyle she used to have, she needs get her act together and do it herself.

{{turns to waiter}} I'll have 13 of these please.    I was like, wait what? Now that Carole's bullshit title beats Luann's bullshit title the new argument is ok well then she's jealous of her looks?   k.

Edited September 7, 2016 by ZaldamoWilder
fingers faster than brain...switching to decaf

[izabella]

30 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Aside from her appearance and her bullshit title, LuAnn has lived an interesting life that is compelling enough for her to brag about it on the show. But I also think Carole and Bethenny have lived interesting lives too. In fact, I find Carole's life so interesting because she was not only creatively and professionally fulfilled, but her work as a journalist impacted people in the US and around the globe. That's something to be proud of and it's something to aspire to. Bethenny has lived an interesting life, but it's enough of a horror show that I'm not the least bit envious.

It's too bad they don't bring anything interesting of their lives to the show.  Adam certainly isn't it, nor Carole's drug-laced gummy bears and throwing up on people's shoes, and the less said about Bethy's fibroids and Skinnycrap, the better.

Edited September 7, 2016 by izabella

[HunterHunted]

That's the funniest thing about all of these ho'wives. They are all so tiny so when LuAnn gambols up to the other women, you think "damn jolly lace giant." But it's because Ramona is like 5 foot 3 inches and a size 2, but LuAnn is like 5 foot 9 inches and maybe a 4.

10 minutes ago, Ki-in said:

They may not be jealous of her looks but her attitude and the fact that she does radiate a certain quality (charisma) that those two wet blankets just don't have. And Lu seems to roll with the punches and land on her feet while those two are mired in their own misery and hate and take grudge holding to epic proportions.

Maybe, but I don't think so. Increasingly, this cast is operating exactly like how Sonja has always been. This is a workplace. They'll interact for work, but as soon as the camera stops rolling they have nothing to do with each other.

There are some assholes that I work with. Most of the time, I can be civil with them. But every once in a while, they can push me beyond the limits of my civility. Once my boss' boss decided that we were going to have a project update meeting in a bar/restaurant at happy hour. The big boss showed up to the meeting almost 2 hours late. The 20 of us who were waiting for her to show so we could give our updates were too nervous to get a drink because we were afraid we'd be sloshed by the time she showed and would mess up the project updates. If you had seen my face, you would have seen one sour sober mug and there was nothing that I was going to do to hide it.

I just sense that these women who aren't really friends have situations when they have reached the limits of their tolerance of each other. Sonja who has been sober this season has been spitting straight acid. I'm sure that all of their real friends would describe them as funny and lovely. The cast doesn't see that because they are not really friends.

[ZaldamoWilder]

1 hour ago, breezy424 said:

I don't recall Lu ever insisting that anyone call her 'Countess'.

Here's a wiki on continental versus American style of using a fork and knife:

http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Fork-and-Knife

better memories than mine have recalled the instances.

thank you!  this, the "pen-like" hold is what drives me crazy.   Now I can stop thinking it's weird lol.