Hollywood History: The Real-Life "Feud" and More

[Growsonwalls]

In the bad parenting sweepstakes there's also Natalie Wood's mom, who encouraged the underaged Natalie to go on "dates" with Hollywood VIP's. Natalie was raped by a Hollywood VIP who is very much alive today.

An interesting thing about Gary Merrill: after his divorce from Bette he became the lover for the alcoholic hot mess that was Rita Hayworth. Now Rita Hayworth, that's a Hollywood story that will break your heart.

[Mannahatta]

On 3/20/2017 at 10:40 AM, wings707 said:

I have googled but came up empty.  I want to know if the restaurant set is a replica of a famous restaurant in that era.  The peach banquets Look expensive so it seems they must be significant.  Many restaurants back then were not that elaborate and easier to replicate.  

I think the restaurant is supposed to be Perinos. It was known for it's chandeliers and pink and peach color theme. Here's a 1940 photo of Joan Crawford taken in Perinos:   https://www.joancrawfordbest.com/40perinoscafebevhills.htm

Here's another link about the now closed Perinos:  http://www.iamnotastalker.com/2012/08/14/perinos-restaurant/  A scene from "Mommie Dearest" had also been filmed there.

Yep. It was definitely Perino's. Here's a link about the set design that includes this quote: "Since many of the era’s hotspots sadly no longer exist, Becker and her team recreated locations such as Perino’s restaurant." http://www.architecturaldigest.com/gallery/ryan-murphy-feud-set-design/all

Edited March 21, 2017 by Mannahatta
Because it helps to have the name of the restaurant spelled correctly.

[TigerLynx]

2 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

Runner up?  Charlotte Shelby, Mary Miles Minter's pushy mother, who changed her daughter's identity and age in order that the young Juliet Mills could be rechristened Mary Miles Minter (a dead relative) and work to support the family.  She also acted as her daughter's manager/agent, signing her to lucrative contracts and then finding loopholes to get her out and move on to another lucrative contract.  If you're at all familiar with Shelby/Minter, you'll recognize that Minter was one of director William Desmond Taylor's leading ladies and Shelby has long been suspected of being his killer (out of jealousy that Taylor was having a romantic relationship with Minter and would take her out of the business; unlikely as Taylor was secretly gay.)  

There was also speculation that Mary Miles Minter killed him because he rejected her.  Taylor also had a wife and daughter he abandoned.  He changed his name and moved to California.  A few years later Taylor's brother left his wife and children, and eventually ended up in California.  Taylor's sister-in-law moved to California, and Taylor sent her checks to help her out.  One of Taylor's employees stole money from him, and was a suspect.  Mabel Normand was a friend of Taylor's and a drug addict.  She was ruled out as a suspect, but she was probably the last person to see Taylor alive.

It's ironic that Hollywood didn't seem to realize the talent that was right in front of them.  They spent so much time trying to glamorize Bette Davis, and make sure Crawford stuck to playing a certain type of role.  Bette Davis was known for being difficult, but the people who worked with her said she was almost always right when it came to her character, and the way the movie should go.

[ThatsDarling]

Bette and Joan's debate over the 1950 Best Actress Oscar race got me thinking about how the result of that contest subtly underscores a major theme of Feud: how women lose their value in Hollywood once they pass a certain age.

51-year-old Gloria Swanson and 42-year-old Bette Davis--nominated for Sunset Boulevard and All About Eve respectively--lost out to 29-year-old Judy Holliday in Born Yesterday.  Holliday was wonderful and would have been a deserving winner in almost any other year, but Swanson and Davis gave two of the most iconic performances in film history. It was mind-boggling to me that neither of them won, until I started thinking about the political aspects of the Oscars.

By 1950, Davis's days as the leading lady of Hollywood were behind her, and Sunset Boulevard was Swanson's first film in nearly a decade. Neither actress had ties with any particular movie studio at this time, so no studio was invested in them winning (the studios often voted in blocs). Judy Holliday, on the other hand, had just signed a contract with Columbia, and Born Yesterday was a big hit. To Academy members voting in 1950, she probably looked like the future of Hollywood cinema, while Swanson and Davis were the past.

I find Swanson's loss especially unfortunate because, unlike Davis, she never won before and this was the Academy's final chance to honor her contribution to film. She had been working in motion pictures since the early days of the medium, and by the 1920s her star power was such that she received 10,000 fan letters a week. Hollywood profited immensely from her likeness, then lost interest and seemed to forget about her for years. 

The fact that the Academy never recognized her work--not even with an Honorary Oscar between the time of Sunset Boulevard and her death in 1983--remains an egregious oversight and a testament to the industry's disrespect of women. 

Edited March 20, 2017 by ThatsDarling
Spelling.

[merylinkid]

Bringing over the conversation about Hedda Hopper from the show thread.   I knew she was a gossip monger of the worst sort.   Because sleaze paid then as it pays now.   No wants to hear the Joan and Bette are getting along famously on the set of Baby Jane.   They want "feud."   I did not know she ratted out people to HUAC.   There is a special place in Hell reserved for those who played along with McCarthy.    Right with the people who talk in movie theaters.

[Growsonwalls]

48 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Bringing over the conversation about Hedda Hopper from the show thread.   I knew she was a gossip monger of the worst sort.   Because sleaze paid then as it pays now.   No wants to hear the Joan and Bette are getting along famously on the set of Baby Jane.   They want "feud."   I did not know she ratted out people to HUAC.   There is a special place in Hell reserved for those who played along with McCarthy.    Right with the people who talk in movie theaters.

A lot of the most "beloved" figures of Hollywood were sadly totally weasel chickenshits when it came time to sell their colleagues and friends down the river. We all know about Elia Kazan, but there's also Ed Sullivan, Jerome Robbins, Robert Taylor, Ronald Reagan, Ginger Rogers, Jack Warner (ew), the list goes on ... Here's a good article about how so much of Hollywood weaseled out. 

Thankfully Joan and Bette were not among those who sold their souls to the HUAC. So they might have been objectionable in a million other ways, but neither of them got involved in that horror.

[Lorna Mae]

Guess what I found on the local library's discard sale rack -- My Mother's Keeper. Yes, I bought it. Not because I thought it would give me insight into Bette Davis; only because I wanted to get a handle on daughter B.D. And I sure did: O. M. G., what a bitchy bratty brat bitch. Detractors of Christina Crawford/Mommie Dearest usually say "Well, you're only getting Christina's side of the story; the flip side is that she talked back, acted out and was generally difficult." That may or may not be true, but, B.D.'s side of her own story shows B.D. talking back, acting out, and generally being difficult! I'm only halfway through, but already I'm convinced that B.D. would have delivered that speech from episode 2; probably not in such an articulate manner, but certainly with as much venom. Many of her comebacks in MMK boil down to "Mother, I can't help it if I'm gorgeous and you're old!" I don't blame Bette for wanting to send her to Exile Farm; I'm not surprised that seeing B.D. flirting with crewmembers would set off alarm bells. And this quote cracks me up: "If you want to leave [this party]...you don't have to worry about me; I have a date with Danny Milland to go to another party in Malibu." She must have been a Kardashian before the Kardashians. 

That said, if Gary Merrill was as she described him, I can cut her some slack (without entirely excusing snottiness and disrespect). I specifically hope the scene with the horse was made up, or greatly exaggerated. It made me cry, and I rarely cry for animals.  

[TigerLynx]

11 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

A lot of the most "beloved" figures of Hollywood were sadly totally weasel chickenshits when it came time to sell their colleagues and friends down the river. We all know about Elia Kazan, but there's also Ed Sullivan, Jerome Robbins, Robert Taylor, Ronald Reagan, Ginger Rogers, Jack Warner (ew), the list goes on ... Here's a good article about how so much of Hollywood weaseled out. 

Thankfully Joan and Bette were not among those who sold their souls to the HUAC. So they might have been objectionable in a million other ways, but neither of them got involved in that horror.

It's sad to see that some of the people in Hollywood who initially stood up to the idiots in Washington ended up backing down.

Lana Turner stupidly getting involved with Johnny Stompanato caused all sorts of problems for her daughter Cheryl.

It seems Ava Gardner was the smart one of the group.  Frank Sinatra wanted to have children when they were married, and she told him people like them should not have children.  Frank's response was he already had children, and Ava replied, "No, Nancy (Frank's ex-wife) has children."

[ennui]

On 3/20/2017 at 8:22 AM, wings707 said:

No, I was talking about the restaurant with the peach, booth/banquet we have seen several times. 

The Polo Lounge is also done in peachy-pink booths.

5 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

It seems Ava Gardner was the smart one of the group.

I never liked her. I guess that's an UO. Beautiful to look at, certainly.

Edited March 21, 2017 by ennui

[Blakeston]

The race for Best Actress of 1950 was absurdly overstuffed with talent. I think Judy Holliday was a perfectly reasonable choice. I would have gone with Davis, personally - but with Baxter in the mix, I can see why she didn't win.

[CraftyHazel]

2 hours ago, ennui said:

The Polo Lounge is also done in peachy-pink booths.

I never liked her. I guess that's an UO. Beautiful to look at, certainly.

My first introduction to Ava Gardner was 1974's cheesy "Earthquake".  It was not a good first impression, and she never really overcame it, for me.

[NutMeg]

You know,  the more I think about it, the more it seems ok to embrace the actress while not liking her as a person, as most of my favorite artists ( actors, directors, painters, sculptors, musicians, etc.) are/were often deeply flawed people, and most often than not huge narcissistic personalities, who had no compassion for their fellow beings.

I see Joan Crawford as such, a very talented person who only knew seduction as a way to relate to others. Bette had a great relation with her mom and expected the same with her kids, Joan had a bad relation with hers and seem to have waited for the other shoe to drop even when things were going well. She couldn't take typical teenage  rebellion because she was more a star than a mom. Faced with antagonism, she reacted with aggression, which helped her well (maybe?) in her professional life, less so in her private life and definitely not at all as regards to her kids. It's too bad, because Christina (sorry I misspelled her name in an earlier post) was more like her than she knew, she really was her daughter. But Joan's ego was so fragile that she thought she had to cut the cord when she stopped getting unconditional love from her daughter because her logic didn't provide for a mother giving to, rather than expecting, unconditional love from her daughter. If Joan Crawford had been the mother of star xxx, without being known herself, we'd all be saying how horrible a mother she was and how strong xxx was to have overcome such a horrible dynamic while growing up.    

[psychoticstate]

Love these pics of Joan and Bette, "dueling" in hats.

[ennui]

I like that we see Joan wearing simple ivory earrings during the day. Back then, diamonds were only appropriate for evening wear. When we see Joan out in the evenings, that's when the sparkle came out. 

[enoughcats]

7 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

 

Love these pics of Joan and Bette, "dueling" in hats.

 

AND dueling eyebrows

[Chaos Theory]

22 hours ago, NutMeg said:

You know,  the more I think about it, the more it seems ok to embrace the actress while not liking her as a person, as most of my favorite artists ( actors, directors, painters, sculptors, musicians, etc.) are/were often deeply flawed people, and most often than not huge narcissistic personalities, who had no compassion for their fellow beings.

I see Joan Crawford as such, a very talented person who only knew seduction as a way to relate to others. Bette had a great relation with her mom and expected the same with her kids, Joan had a bad relation with hers and seem to have waited for the other shoe to drop even when things were going well. She couldn't take typical teenage  rebellion because she was more a star than a mom. Faced with antagonism, she reacted with aggression, which helped her well (maybe?) in her professional life, less so in her private life and definitely not at all as regards to her kids. It's too bad, because Christina (sorry I misspelled her name in an earlier post) was more like her than she knew, she really was her daughter. But Joan's ego was so fragile that she thought she had to cut the cord when she stopped getting unconditional love from her daughter because her logic didn't provide for a mother giving to, rather than expecting, unconditional love from her daughter. If Joan Crawford had been the mother of star xxx, without being known herself, we'd all be saying how horrible a mother she was and how strong xxx was to have overcome such a horrible dynamic while growing up.    

It's probably why usually don't give a crap about an entertainers personal life.  I find it interesting that Joan Crawford might or might not have been a craptastic mother.  Celebrities personal lives run hot for a short window with me then I simply don't care if I enjoy their movies/tv/movies.  Since I didn't know about BD and Bette I find them fascinating (then again I also like Bettes movies more then Joan's) but that will probably only last until the series ends and I will go back to interesting but don't care.

[MsTree]

On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 6:35 AM, TigerLynx said:

Jack Nicholson's mother was actually his grandmother to.  He didn't find out until both his mother and grandmother were dead.  His response was it wasn't that traumatic a reveal, and, "Name me two other broads who could take a secret like that to their graves."

Similar situation with Bobby Darin. His sister was his mother...and who he thought was his mother was his grandmother. I don't recall his reaction when he found out.

[larapu2000]

6 hours ago, MsTree said:

Similar situation with Bobby Darin. His sister was his mother...and who he thought was his mother was his grandmother. I don't recall his reaction when he found out.

Same situation with Ted Bundy, and we all know how that turned out as well.

[hippielamb]

On 3/20/2017 at 9:35 AM, TigerLynx said:

To add to the story, Merle Oberon's mother was actually her grandmother.  She knew her real mother as her sister.

Jack Nicholson's mother was actually his grandmother to.  He didn't find out until both his mother and grandmother were dead.  His response was it wasn't that traumatic a reveal, and, "Name me two other broads who could take a secret like that to their graves."

I read up on her after reading that. The mother/granddaughter switch doesn't surprise me that much. 

I think it was well, not common but not unheard for a family to do that. My eldest daughter was born just before I turned 18, and my relatives were concerned about appearances. It was suggested my aunt raise her and I go along with calling her a cousin. And this was in the late 80's! Some cultures are still very conscious of keeping up appearances, and I imagine it was much worse in the 40s and 50s. What shocks me about the Merle Oberon story is abandoning her heritage just to pass as white. It seems like it would be a very lonely existence. 

On 3/20/2017 at 10:44 AM, Growsonwalls said:

To add to the creepiness of the story, after her mother's death Merle destroyed all pictures of her mother and then had a portrait painted of her mother as a completely white woman and hung it up in her house. 

It sounds so sad to me. To be that wrapped up in her public persona and going to such lengths to protect a lie. Not to mention the disrespect of her mother's memory. 

[ennui]

Hollywood wasn't always kind to the men, either. I was scanning the plot of Hush, Hush Sweet Charlotte, and thinking about Joseph Cotten. His later years were also horror and disaster films and tv guest appearances.

[GreekGeek]

The intro to tonight's episode includes this line: "Pauline tries to break gender barriers..." Who is Pauline? The only one I can think of is film critic Pauline Kael, and I don't see her playing a part in the Bette and Joan story.

[editorgrrl]

35 minutes ago, GreekGeek said:

The intro to tonight's episode includes this line: "Pauline tries to break gender barriers..." Who is Pauline? The only one I can think of is film critic Pauline Kael, and I don't see her playing a part in the Bette and Joan story.

Pauline Jameson (assistant to director Bob Aldrich), played by Alison Wright: http://feud.wikia.com/wiki/Pauline_Jameson

Edited March 26, 2017 by editorgrrl

[GreekGeek]

2 hours ago, editorgrrl said:

Pauline Jameson (assistant to director Bob Aldrich), played by Alison Wright: http://feud.wikia.com/wiki/Pauline_Jameson

Thank you!

[enoughcats]

I hadn't seen the Feud wiki and that led to their wiki for Mamacita's actress.  Ever since her first appearance, after I told myself that Ruth Buzzi probably wasn't playing it, I'd wondered.

Here's her wiki.http://feud.wikia.com/wiki/Jackie_Hoffman

I also checked on Ruth Buzzi who is now 80 and her character on Laugh In was Gladys Ormphby in case your memories are as undependable as mine.

[Growsonwalls]

On 3/25/2017 at 0:02 PM, hippielamb said:

It sounds so sad to me. To be that wrapped up in her public persona and going to such lengths to protect a lie. Not to mention the disrespect of her mother's memory. 

I actually have a hard time watching Merle Oberon movies because I find what she did so false and disrespectful to her mother, who made a lot of sacrifices so Merle could become a Hollywood star. The ironic thing was Merle's mother/grandmother was probably very beautiful. Merle didn't get her looks from nowhere.

Speaking of movie star mother/daughter I found this picture of Gladys Monroe, Marilyn's mother. You can definitely see where her daughter got her beauty. 

Unfortunately the mental instability of Gladys also went straight to her daughter. 

[CraftyHazel]

Here is an interesting little photo story from 1956 on Joan and Christina.  Things that make me go hmmmmm...

[Inquisitionist]

13 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I actually have a hard time watching Merle Oberon movies because I find what she did so false and disrespectful to her mother, who made a lot of sacrifices so Merle could become a Hollywood star. The ironic thing was Merle's mother/grandmother was probably very beautiful. Merle didn't get her looks from nowhere.

From the little I know of it, Merle Oberon's story is very complicated.  When your upbringing begins with the fiction that your actual grandmother is your "mother" and that your actual mother is your "sister," and you are scorned for your "mixed parentage," I can understand wanting to create another equally false but professionally advantageous back-story. 

[Arynm]

Didn't the mother is actually the grandmother start with Merle's mother? Are we even sure that the grandmother and mother didn't want to perpetuate the story for the good of the family? I have no idea and I did look briefly to see if anything was mentioned. It could be possible that the family decided this way was best for her career and were ok with it.

It totally sucks, don't get me wrong, and it really is too bad that she had to deny her heritage because of the racism of the day.

I will say that her having a picture painted of her mother as white, after she had died is a little beyond the pale, no pun intended.

[enoughcats]

25 minutes ago, Arynm said:

a little beyond the pale, no pun intended.

Pun, although unintended, appreciated, nonetheless.

[ghoulina]

I didn't want to get too much into it in the episode thread, but as someone who used to have a big crush on Sinatra (as much as one can who is a teenager when the guy died), I was wondering how accurate that portrayal was. I know little and less about him as a person. Was he just a bit difficult? Or a truly horrible person?

[Growsonwalls]

16 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I didn't want to get too much into it in the episode thread, but as someone who used to have a big crush on Sinatra (as much as one can who is a teenager when the guy died), I was wondering how accurate that portrayal was. I know little and less about him as a person. Was he just a bit difficult? Or a truly horrible person?

He was sort of an odd number. He could be a very generous person and helped a lot of people in need. But he was also a nasty drunk, an incorrigible womanizer, had mob connections, and was known to be personally very cold and spiteful. He reminds me a lot of descriptions of Johnny Carson.

I think Sinatra was one of those people whose only real relation was with his adoring audiences. It was said that the only person he ever truly loved was Ava Gardner and he did help her financially long after they divorced. But yeah, on a day to day basis, a nasty man.

[psychoticstate]

Given Sinatra being in this week's episode, kind of ironic that I was in Palm Springs on Saturday and visited his final resting place.  Someone, likely a fan, left behind a small mostly empty bottle of Jack Daniels and a cigarette, ostensibly for Ol' Blue Eyes. 

I do think Sinatra was likely a very difficult person to work with and deal with.  He was crazy about Ava Gardner, as @Growsonwalls stated, but the two didn't have the healthiest of relationships - - both were drinkers and could be belligerent. He was a gifted singer, certainly, and could be kind and generous but I think his fame, combined with his drinking, made his assholery more pronounced.  

This most recent episode indicates how prevalent drinking was, male and female, in the industry.  

[wetmoregal]

My jaw dropped when they portrayed Sinatra's behavior.  Then I shook my head and chuckled.  Aldrich didn't want to be pigeon-holed into directing horror films with aging actresses after WHTBJ.  In my mind, he got much worse with Sinatra.  At least Davis and Crawford never threatened to have him killed.

[enoughcats]

2 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

It was said that the only person he ever truly loved was Ava Gardner and he did help her financially long after they divorced

There was another person who was very important to FS and that was his Mother.  IIRC she died in a plane crash on the way to Las Vegas for one of his shows.  I was in grad school at the time and I remember that death being a really big thing, and that surprised me because most stars' family tragedies didn't get much, if any, publicity.

This link talks about his Mother's death and more that you may care to know about his career in Las Vegas.

https://lasvegassun.com/news/1998/may/15/sinatra-spent-anxiously-hopeful-moments-in-las-veg/

[TigerLynx]

Frank Sinatra was a jerk.  He could be a good friend.  When Frank, Dean Martin, Sami Davis, Peter Lawford, Joey Bishop (the "Rat Pack") were performing together (Las Vegas, doing movies, etc.), they wouldn't stay or perform at places that wouldn't let Sami Davis stay there.  However, when Frank and Sami had a falling out, Frank took Sami's part in a movie they were going to do together, and gave it to someone else.  He did the same thing to Lawford.  Frank and Sami eventually made up, and Frank and Lawford never did. 

Frank constantly cheated on his first wife, and he missed all three of his children's births.  It seems the only people who stood up to Frank in his personal life were Dean Martin and Ava Gardner.  Ava Gardner was a bit of a contradiction.  She was a very strong willed independent woman, but she was involved with more than one man who knocked her around.

[Lorna Mae]

Brought over from the Episode 3 thread:

anniemarieko: Myrna Loy, an actress I really admire, was a friend of Joan's and said the only time she was happy that she couldn't have children was when she saw Christina Crawford.  She said Joan never complained or  said anything negative about her children, though Loy thought Christina was an awful, impossible girl.  Loy worked with Christina on stage and said that she had talent but simply refused to do what the director asked of her, caused problems for everyone else and therefore didn't go anywhere in the industry.

Well, that explains something Christina talked about in MD. At a memorial service for Joan, Christina walked in, George Cukor asked who she was, and at her reply, pandemonium ensued. "Myrna Loy got up and left the room. She left her drink, her speech and her mink coat right where they had been a moment before."

Christina got crossways with Elvis once, also. She had a small role in one of his films, and was invited to, maybe not Graceland, but one of his houses. At any rate, Elvis pulled out a cigar, and one of his crew started to light it for him. Christina grabbed it and broke it in half. (It would have been a Hav-a-Tampa or Rum Crook, not a real cigar, but still.) "Don't do that." Elvis pulls out another cigar; Christina does the same thing. "I've asked you nicely." "Well, he shouldn't have to light your cigars." Third time, he goes off on her verbally; she throws a drink in his face. Elvis pulls her out of the room by her hair and sends her out the door with his foot in her ass. Later, Christina comes back to apologize. Reason given was "she resented seeing her mother treat everybody who worked for her the same way."

[holly4755]

the whole adopted children should be grateful does not hold water. In the days of old hollywood these adoptions were basically stealing children from loving parents and selling them to Hollywood, much like dogs are adopted today, since there are laws about adoptions now like providing a fit home.  Have you ever noticed that Kardashians get a lot of new puppies get their picture taken with them and they disappear after that, hopefully to a shelter.  Children were supposed to fix what ever your problem was, give you endless love without responsibility (dogs ARE really better for that). 

This Georgia Tann is where many of the children were purchased from. No inspections, you are a star, be it drunk or what ever, you can buy anything. 

We are talking about people who didn't "have" children for the most part, they outright bought them, so the odds were their expectations are different, the odds are bonding was not there from the start.  Definitely not like adoptions today. NO kid is perfect, When I got older, I was shocked at how many people hate their parents, many with excellent reason to hate them, Looking back in retrospect, I see now how many of my cousins were abused - an only child beaten with a cat o nine tails when 8 for "talking back"? basically, that time she did not want to turn down her record player because  we were visiting, it was not that loud, she was never really bad. Then they killed her pet duck and had it stuffed for her because it was too noisy. Why did they buy her a duck? heck why did my parent buy me a chick that grew into a rooster - that was too loud!  ha ha . Not everyone should be a parent. 

[psychoticstate]

Christina was quite full of herself, wasn't she?  Whether her mother treated people like that or not doesn't give her the right to be an ass. 

I've always felt that she believed she could slide by on the Crawford name and by way of her mother's success, be handed a stellar career.  When that didn't happen (because Christina did not have her mother's drive, ambition or talent) she grew resentful of her mother and her mother's success. 

[qtpye]

I feel like Christina and Joan were like Lorelai and Emily Gilmore.  Two extremely strong willed females that were rather competitive.  This probably broke down on any real bonding.  Christina probably did think she could easily become a star and it burns at her that she was an utter failure, while her mom was sort of a legend.  Then again, I do believe that she grew up in an environment that was toxic for someone with her strong willed natural tendencies.

We do see that Joan looks at anything but utter obedience as a threat.  Heck, the movie is doing well and she is utterly miserable because she felt that she has been outshone (and this is supposed to be a sympathetic portrayal).  I can believe that about Joan.  Also, the mamacita character would be someone Joan would bond with, because the lowly, homely servant will never be a threat.  It seemed like the real Joan always had to be an Alpha and that was probably the cause of a lot of her problems.

[Arynm]

2 hours ago, holly4755 said:

 

This Georgia Tann is where many of the children were purchased from. No inspections, you are a star, be it drunk or what ever, you can buy anything. 

 

This is probably terrible, but I was adopted from Memphis TN and I always used to ask my mother how much I cost/where she stole me from. I was adopted in the 70's so long after the home was shut down, so I was just being a brat and my mom knew it was a joke.

[GATenn]

Even Christina admitted in MD that she was a difficult person when she was young, which is understandable given her upbringing.

According to MD (especially the unabridged version), if Christina was hired for a role, and the same studio had hired Joan for one, Joan would back out. Also, Joan was so off the rails with her drinking by that time that she would call her friends drunk and screaming about Christina in the middle of the night. Between Joan blacklisting Christina and the "night raids" on the phone, no one wanted to piss Joan off or be associated with that insanity, so the offers stopped coming in.

Then there was the whole Secret Storm debacle. Christina had an active role in the CBS soap opera, and when she fell ill (it was life-threatening), Joan took her place. Joan was a 60-something woman playing a 28 year-old character, and if that wasn't bad enough, she was so drunk through most of it that they had to splice takes together to make it coherent. Christina said that Joan took her part almost literally over her dead body. She also predicted that since her character no longer had any credibility, that she would be written out soon. She was.

Of course, Christina could have been a mediocre actress anyway. 

 

[qtpye]

20 hours ago, Arynm said:

This Georgia Tann is where many of the children were purchased from. No inspections, you are a star, be it drunk or what ever, you can buy anything. 

I hope there is a special place in hell for people like this.  I can not even imagine the countless lives they have destroyed.

[ennui]

23 hours ago, holly4755 said:

the whole adopted children should be grateful does not hold water. In the days of old hollywood these adoptions were basically stealing children from loving parents and selling them to Hollywood

The children that Madonna adopts from Malawi have parents, and no one thinks anything of it. I think David's father put up a fight to keep his son.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I may be one of the very few classic movie buffs who don't particularly care for Garbo.

I never liked her either, especially when she tried to be funny. I saw a really early one of her movies and there was something very modern and refreshing about her looks at the time. Maybe that was part of her charm.

[caracas1914]

From TWP's recap of the last episode:

Geeze, Joan knew how to do full HW movie queen glamour, didn't she?

[psychoticstate]

Very insightful article on Joan and her warped legacy here.  

I appreciate that the author chose not to take sides insofar as Christina's allegations but instead focused on Joan's work and her skills as an actor. 

[ennui]

1 hour ago, caracas1914 said:

From TWP's recap of the last episode:

Geeze, Joan knew how to do full HW movie queen glamour, didn't she?

The photo looks like a WHTBJ press promo, and Joan played the movie star to Jane's vaudeville child star. Why else the car?

[Growsonwalls]

Well look what I found of Merle Oberon.

After her death Merle had her repainted as a Victorian white woman:

Also this rare color picture of Merle shows her actual skin tone.

This is an actual photo of Merle's mother/grandmother. She looks a lot like Merle. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by Growsonwalls

[enoughcats]

1 hour ago, ennui said:

 

2 hours ago, caracas1914 said:

From TWP's recap of the last episode:

Geeze, Joan knew how to do full HW movie queen glamour, didn't she?

The photo looks like a WHTBJ press promo, and Joan played the movie star to Jane's vaudeville child star. Why else the car?

 

Had Bette had a stroke or TIA on her right side before this photo above was taken?

Looking at this later one, her right side seems to have a problem. Especially different in the eyes' openings.

Not that WEHTBJ couldn't have contributed to stress.

[AgentRXS]

Quote

rom TWP's recap of the last episode:

Geeze, Joan knew how to do full HW movie queen glamour, didn't she?

Wow, to think that they were only in their 50s during that shoot. Joan looks late 60s to me, and Bette looks mid-70s. I guess that is what smoking, drinking, and aging naturally looks like.

If they were around now, I could see Joan going for every plastic surgery procedure available. Bette seems like the type that wouldn't go for plastic surgery unless it was very minimal and would help her get more roles.