All Episodes Talk: Lorelai and Rory and the People They Love

[Taryn74]

51 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

That is quite possible. I never thought of it that way. I'm going to have to pay more attention to that!

It was only after many viewings of the series as a whole (well, minus multiple viewings past S4, especially of S6 and S7, because train wreck) that I really started to notice this. I think Mrs. Kim having the band over for New Year and then arranging the band tour was what really got me to thinking about it, and that's when I really started paying attention to how she responded to things vs. how Lane assumed she would respond to things. It's quite eye opening and adds a fascinating layer to their relationship.

[readster]

10 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

It was only after many viewings of the series as a whole (well, minus multiple viewings past S4, especially of S6 and S7, because train wreck) that I really started to notice this. I think Mrs. Kim having the band over for New Year and then arranging the band tour was what really got me to thinking about it, and that's when I really started paying attention to how she responded to things vs. how Lane assumed she would respond to things. It's quite eye opening and adds a fascinating layer to their relationship.

True, but also when you look how she treated customers and other people around town. How did she stay in business? She was not approachable, everyone in town wanted to avoid her unless they "needed" to talk to her about something. I think the biggest eye opener was when Lane saw that her mother hid her current life from her grandmother. Showing that Lane was not really that much different from her. What got Lane was just how much Mrs. Kim's rules got to her or even how Lane said: "You didn't want me to watch Sesame Street because you thought Cookie Monster was the form of gluteny." Which at that moment, Mrs. Kim realized she had gone too far at times. 

  I can see why Mrs. Kim didn't want to tell her mother about her life. I mean you are raised Buddhist and then converted to 7th Day Advent. I mean, lightning would have  come down the hills. However, what was Mrs or even Mr. Kim's move to go 7th Day Advent? If anything, they would have just gone none direct Christian and still held the same values. Of course, AS-P just thought it would be different to have someone be 7th Day and then do ZERO research on it. 

[Guiltypleasure25]

On 11/6/2019 at 9:04 PM, Taryn74 said:

I don't know if you feel this way or not (I certainly do), but there seems to be such a bizarre disconnect with how we're told via the characters we're supposed to see Rory, and who Rory actually is. Especially with how her character ends up by the time of the Revival. I can't think of how to word it well, but it's like I've spent 8 years (show-wise, almost 20 years IRL LOL) trying to figure out who ASP thinks Rory is and I still don't know. Does that make sense? 

Like, you say in the quote above that you believe ASP intended for Rory to basically be a failure at adult life from the beginning, yet for SEVEN. FREAKING. YEARS it's crammed down our throats that she's this amazing, wonderful, angelic creature whom we should borderline worship. And then in the Revival we get the rug pulled out from under us like HA HA HA SUCKERS! GOTCHA! Like, what are we supposed to be feeling here? About Rory and about life in general? 

I seriously don't get it.

Yessss.  I’m still so confused why Rory went from an angel-girl in the original series to a complete mess of an adult in the revival.  Like, did Alexis Bledel get into  a fight with ASP or something??

[peacheslatour]

2 hours ago, Guiltypleasure25 said:

Yessss.  I’m still so confused why Rory went from an angel-girl in the original series to a complete mess of an adult in the revival.  Like, did Alexis Bledel get into  a fight with ASP or something??

Well, there was the whole yacht stealing incident but everyone glossed that over and blamed everything BUT Rory for her crime. And moving into the pool house and refusing to speak to Lorelai was also glossed over. The town thought Rory was perfect but the show betrayed that delusion.

[ghoulina]

3 hours ago, Guiltypleasure25 said:

Yessss.  I’m still so confused why Rory went from an angel-girl in the original series to a complete mess of an adult in the revival.  Like, did Alexis Bledel get into  a fight with ASP or something??

I think Rory flourished well in settings with a lot of structure and clear parameters. When you take all of that away, and she has to think more out of the box and figure things out for herself, when she has no one telling her what to do, she flounders. 

[chitowngirl]

And those are such good qualities for a investigative reporter/foreign correspondent  journalist!

[Taryn74]

3 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

And those are such good qualities for a investigative reporter/foreign correspondent  journalist!

Wow, you know what literally just occurred to me for the first time? Rachel would have been a great person for Rory to talk to about what it takes to actually be a foreign correspondent. And yet there was never even a hint of Rory even being intrigued by Rachel doing exactly what Rory [pretended she] wanted to do with her life.

I wonder if that was deliberate, or if ASP just thought to herself, what would be something really cool for Luke's ex-girlfriend to do? and then just ran with it without another thought?

[Guiltypleasure25]

9 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I think Rory flourished well in settings with a lot of structure and clear parameters. When you take all of that away, and she has to think more out of the box and figure things out for herself, when she has no one telling her what to do, she flounders. 

That makes sense to a degree but Rory was in her 30s already by the time of the revival and was just floundering in all areas.  That just wasn’t who she was in the original, and didn’t ring true for someone with her background and connections IMO.

[clack]

99% of the bright, charming, attractive, promising teenagers go on to lead ordinary lives with ordinary careers. Because Rory, in the end, doesn't amount to much as a journalist, does that make her a permanent failure at life?

If, say, her memoir is published and she gets a job teaching at Chilton and raising her daughter in Stars Hollow, I'd say she had done well in life.

[WhoaWhoKnew]

I'm more concerned about Rory turning out to be a serial adulterer/side chick and possible soon-to-be outside baby mama. 

Edited December 4, 2019 by WhoaWhoKnew

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, clack said:

99% of the bright, charming, attractive, promising teenagers go on to lead ordinary lives with ordinary careers. Because Rory, in the end, doesn't amount to much as a journalist, does that make her a permanent failure at life?

If, say, her memoir is published and she gets a job teaching at Chilton and raising her daughter in Stars Hollow, I'd say she had done well in life.

My issue is not so much that she "didn't amount to much as a journalist" -- it's that she was in her damn 30's by the Revival and still just kind of aimlessly living off everyone else's money and whining because she couldn't continue to live off the praise of her one successful article or whatever it was. She was not doing anything with her life other than jet setting around to f#ck her richie rich secret boyfriend. And nobody seemed to care. Not her mother (who by the same age was running a very successful business and was about to start up her own), not her grandmother, not Luke, not Lane, not Paris, not the Townies, certainly not Logan and the LDB crowd.

[slf]

I don't believe that ASP ended up writing what she meant the show to be at the start. I know that there are people who think it was all intended but I agree with people who have pointed out that how she wrote Rory contradicts how she had virtually every character respond to her. I personally think she meant to write a twinkly-lit show about a hard-working single mom and her intelligent, high-achieving daughter who, while of course suffering setbacks, was ultimately supposed to be successful. But I think some issues snowballed and we ended up with what we got.

ASP as a writer has a few blind spots. For one, she's willing to have characters act incredibly stupid for the sake of creating conflict because she believes that conflict drives drama. Examples include the one that starts the show off: Lorelai somehow being taken by surprise by Chilton costing an arm and a leg and having no idea how she's gonna pay for it. Like...maybe she should have thought about that before trying to get Rory in? Saved up some money? But if Lorelai had behaved remotely rationally or exhibited any common sense, no drama. Same with Rory having no idea that good grades aren't enough to get into Harvard. That makes no sense if she's been obsessed with getting in since she was a kid. Another blind spot is that ASP does not seem to think actions reflect on the characters the way fans do because their actions were just a plot device. This, imo, is the one that really snowballed and worked against the characters.

Edited December 4, 2019 by slf

[Taryn74]

5 minutes ago, slf said:

ASP as a writer has a few blind spots.

Yes, yes, yes. ASP is almost manic-depressive with her writing.....or something. I don't know. One minute the characters are brilliantly witty, charming, funny.....and then the next you can't imagine such a social retard getting along in polite society. (See: Luke physically throwing people out of the diner after breaking up with Lorelai the first time.)

I know IRL people have "off" days and you can't always judge someone by how they occasionally act, but onscreen it can be very jarring, and it's even more jarring when you take into account ASP's bizarre obsessiveness with not allowing the actors to change even one word of their dialogue, etc. Everything that made it to screen was so intentional, I think that's what makes it worse.

[Eeksquire]

Quote

She was not doing anything with her life other than jet setting around to f#ck her richie rich secret boyfriend. And nobody seemed to care. Not her mother (who by the same age was running a very successful business and was about to start up her own), not her grandmother, not Luke, not Lane, not Paris, not the Townies, certainly not Logan and the LDB crowd.

I think part of the issue in the Revival is that Rory was pretending to everyone (including herself!) that everything was fine and this is just how it goes for freelance journalists and everyone couch surfs and blah blah blah, faux-bohemian-cakes. Personally, I think it would have been a great thing for her to take the job at Chilton - she never seemed to really love journalism, but she did really love school.

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

My issue is not so much that she "didn't amount to much as a journalist" -- it's that she was in her damn 30's by the Revival and still just kind of aimlessly living off everyone else's money and whining because she couldn't continue to live off the praise of her one successful article or whatever it was. She was not doing anything with her life other than jet setting around to f#ck her richie rich secret boyfriend. And nobody seemed to care. Not her mother (who by the same age was running a very successful business and was about to start up her own), not her grandmother, not Luke, not Lane, not Paris, not the Townies, certainly not Logan and the LDB crowd.

Mine too. Its one thing to go out in the world and really try and it not work out. That happens. But we never get any sense or sign that Rory even tried. They tell us very little about her career except for two articles she wrote. That's it. Rory's not even really trying any point in the Revival. They show her being so completely unprofessional all the time. She agrees to write the biography for that woman who Rory keeps trashing and making fun of to anyone she talks to and is shocked it got back to the woman who fired her? Then she goes into that interview and is shocked, shocked when they ask her what ideas she has on stories. Why is she so shocked by that? She's a journalist. She's being hired as a journalist, of course their going to want to know what stories she has. Instead of coming up with answers all she can say is she's wearing the wrong dress. She spent all her time looking for the right dress rather then bother to prepare for the interview. Then when she finds out she's not getting the job on that phone call she is absolutely rude and nasty. She finally gets an article to write. Interviewing people waiting in line. How hard can that be? Well, if your Rory. You ask a couple questions, sleep with a Wookie and quit. Because its not interesting. Not only that. They show us Rory interview people. She's crappy at it. Lorelai did a much better job and she's not a journalist. Rory just quits and walks away from the article. That's three different jobs that Rory blows and all because she can't be bother to try. To suck it up and work on the book, to come up with stories, or even do a very simple easy article. Where in any of that is Rory actually trying? Where is she sucking it up to do her job? Her career is barely a career because of Rory.  

We never see Rory sick with worry over money, over her career, struggling or anything. She acts exactly the same why she did in college that she should get all praise and be handed any article she thinks is interesting. They never once show us her actually trying.  Or do anything but jetting off to Logan.

And yes it makes no sense that everyone else is okay with that. Lorelai is fine with a daughter who doesn't do anything? She worked her way up, went back to college, and opened her own inn. But she's okay with a daughter who does nothing? Emily's okay with that? Lane? No one talks to Rory about it. Their all okay with Rory keeping her stuff at their homes? Lane who has a husband and two sons who needs all the space she can get. She's totally okay with her barely working trust fund friend keeping stuff at her house? They all act like its normal and fine. There's not even anyone pretending or talking to each other. Lorelai never talks with Luke or Sookie about Rory's lack of working? We're get to watch Rory and Lorelai making fun of the 30 year old still living at home even though from what they've shown us Rory isn't any different or actually worse because we don't see any signs that Rory's actually tried. As far as we know the other group actually has and are out of work due to lay offs, downsizing or jobs that don't pay a lot.

Edited December 4, 2019 by andromeda331

[scarynikki12]

In the pilot they have Lorelai taken by surprise by Chilton sending her an additional bill (for an enrollment fee I think) and her line is "there are a lot of zeroes after that five", implying it's at least $5000. That's what she takes to Richard and Emily and, in the pilot at least, is her only financial worry. The rest of the series they're paying the entire tuition. I really, really wish they'd have Emily and/or Richard, before bringing up Friday Night Dinners, offer to pay all of Rory's tuition rather than just the last minute fee because it would: 1) be the kind of offer that Lorelai would find too tempting to pass up, 2) explain how she was able to pay for Rory's fancy computer mere weeks later (she used some of the funds that were already set aside to pay for Chilton) and, 3) doesn't make Lorelai look stupid for not planning for tuition. One line in the pilot about how the grandparents are paying for the whole thing rather than a surprise fee and all of these discrepancies go away.

Typing all of that reminded me of the termite episode. I really wish the issue Lorelai faced was getting a bad offer from the bank rather than no offer at all. I can buy that she'd want to keep looking for solutions if her bank gave her a bad offer, which then leads to the solution of Emily using her connections to get Lorelai a better offer, but I can't buy that exactly no one would be willing to offer Lorelai the money outside of Luke. Even if the Stars Hollow bank employees are the only ones around who don't think the sun shines out of her ass, she's a well liked and involved member of the town. She had a steady income and did her job well. Rejecting her loan applications to set up more strings from Emily doesn't work but making her a bad offer does. They shouldn't have done the termite thing to begin with as it added nothing to the overall story but, since it did, it should have been done better.

[andromeda331]

16 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

In the pilot they have Lorelai taken by surprise by Chilton sending her an additional bill (for an enrollment fee I think) and her line is "there are a lot of zeroes after that five", implying it's at least $5000. That's what she takes to Richard and Emily and, in the pilot at least, is her only financial worry. The rest of the series they're paying the entire tuition. I really, really wish they'd have Emily and/or Richard, before bringing up Friday Night Dinners, offer to pay all of Rory's tuition rather than just the last minute fee because it would: 1) be the kind of offer that Lorelai would find too tempting to pass up, 2) explain how she was able to pay for Rory's fancy computer mere weeks later (she used some of the funds that were already set aside to pay for Chilton) and, 3) doesn't make Lorelai look stupid for not planning for tuition. One line in the pilot about how the grandparents are paying for the whole thing rather than a surprise fee and all of these discrepancies go away.

Typing all of that reminded me of the termite episode. I really wish the issue Lorelai faced was getting a bad offer from the bank rather than no offer at all. I can buy that she'd want to keep looking for solutions if her bank gave her a bad offer, which then leads to the solution of Emily using her connections to get Lorelai a better offer, but I can't buy that exactly no one would be willing to offer Lorelai the money outside of Luke. Even if the Stars Hollow bank employees are the only ones around who don't think the sun shines out of her ass, she's a well liked and involved member of the town. She had a steady income and did her job well. Rejecting her loan applications to set up more strings from Emily doesn't work but making her a bad offer does. They shouldn't have done the termite thing to begin with as it added nothing to the overall story but, since it did, it should have been done better.

Yeah neither one ever made any sense. Lorelai would have known she'd have to pay for Chilton. Considering they were working towards it she would have had been saving for years for it. Or they could have a some unexpected bill come up that Lorelai had to sacrifice the money for like roof or new engine in the car. Lorelai would still have to go to her parents but also be ticked off in general that after all her hard work and trying she still had to ask them. Then have her immediately start saving up for Harvard.  She's able to buy the computer and then we learn later that Lorelai and Sookie have even saving up for to buy the inn. 

The termite was stupid too. Lorelai had been employed at the same place for fifteen years and for the last few years ran the inn. Her application should have been approved with no problem. 

[Taryn74]

Totally agree with everything in the last three posts!

28 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

One line in the pilot about how the grandparents are paying for the whole thing rather than a surprise fee and all of these discrepancies go away.

Yep. Or even - I think I mentioned this a while back - have Lorelai have been counting on Rory getting a scholarship to Chilton (in the episode where Lorelai meets Max for the first time one of the Chilton parents snarks that Rory is probably one of 'those scholarship kids') but then the scholarship doesn't come through because Rory is a Gilmore and the school knows full well the elder Gilmores can pay the tuition, and the scholarships are need-based rather than purely merit-based.

Either of those scenarios would have made the plotline of the entire freaking show move so much more smoothly and not left Lorelai looking like an unprepared moron.

[clack]

13 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

My issue is not so much that she "didn't amount to much as a journalist" -- it's that she was in her damn 30's by the Revival and still just kind of aimlessly living off everyone else's money and whining because she couldn't continue to live off the praise of her one successful article or whatever it was. She was not doing anything with her life other than jet setting around to f#ck her richie rich secret boyfriend. And nobody seemed to care. Not her mother (who by the same age was running a very successful business and was about to start up her own), not her grandmother, not Luke, not Lane, not Paris, not the Townies, certainly not Logan and the LDB crowd.

Lorelai at Rory's age was managing an inn -- an ordinary occupation. Her love life was a mess, ditching a fiance, still in half in love with an old boyfriend.

Rory has hitched her star to a dying profession : journalism. And like her mother at her age, her love life too is a mess. 

Rory is at a low point in the revival. But I think we're meant to believe, by the end, that Rory's fortunes had turned in a more hopeful direction. She's pregnant and writing a memoir. A possible happy ending is offered to us, if we want to take it.

[junienmomo]

Without being able to quote ASP, I have the impression we are supposed to believe that Rory and Lorelai are these strong independent women.

By the end of the original series, I didn’t even like either of them much. 

Rory’s turnarounds consisted of someone else telling her to change (Lorelai and the study tree, Jess and back to school, Logan and jumping). Then she took one step, something miraculous occurred like she got back into Yale or she’s inexplicably made editor. Not buying it.

Lorelai shops far more than she saves after having 18 years to save for her dreams of Harvard for Rory and independence for herself. She does a strong thing in turning Christopher down in S1, but runs away from Max without showing us if she was a coward or treated him with dignity. Then she either plays passive e.g. not asking Luke out or tries to joke or lie her way out of trouble spots.

They didn’t do a very good job of changing that impression in the revival.

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, junienmomo said:

Without being able to quote ASP, I have the impression we are supposed to believe that Rory and Lorelai are these strong independent women.

By the end of the original series, I didn’t even like either of them much. 

Rory’s turnarounds consisted of someone else telling her to change (Lorelai and the study tree, Jess and back to school, Logan and jumping). Then she took one step, something miraculous occurred like she got back into Yale or she’s inexplicably made editor. Not buying it.

Lorelai shops far more than she saves after having 18 years to save for her dreams of Harvard for Rory and independence for herself. She does a strong thing in turning Christopher down in S1, but runs away from Max without showing us if she was a coward or treated him with dignity. Then she either plays passive e.g. not asking Luke out or tries to joke or lie her way out of trouble spots.

They didn’t do a very good job of changing that impression in the revival.

And the constant eating out and ordering pizza, Chinese, etc. That's a ticket for the poorhouse right there. You'd think a young woman with a child to raise would have learned to cook the way Lorelai learned to sew. But when you look at their living conditions at the Independence, when they were living in the gardeners shack, there was no kitchen. So, maybe her learning to cook was delayed by that, she still moved into a house when Rory was eleven, you'd think at that point, for the sake of her child she would want to make healthy, home cooked meals. It would have been an important life skill for Rory to learn too.

[Taryn74]

4 hours ago, clack said:

Rory is at a low point in the revival. But I think we're meant to believe, by the end, that Rory's fortunes had turned in a more hopeful direction. She's pregnant and writing a memoir. A possible happy ending is offered to us, if we want to take it.

Oh, I like that way of looking at it!

Sometimes I have to remind myself I really do love this show, heh, so having a reason to not hate the Revival with a flaming passion is a good thing, so thank you for that.

[ghoulina]

On 12/4/2019 at 7:29 AM, Eeksquire said:

I think part of the issue in the Revival is that Rory was pretending to everyone (including herself!) that everything was fine and this is just how it goes for freelance journalists and everyone couch surfs and blah blah blah, faux-bohemian-cakes. Personally, I think it would have been a great thing for her to take the job at Chilton - she never seemed to really love journalism, but she did really love school.

YES! I think Rory would have made an excellent teacher. But she strikes me as the type of singularly-minded person who sets her heart on this one goal and won't admit that it's not working for her. 

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

YES! I think Rory would have made an excellent teacher. But she strikes me as the type of singularly-minded person who sets her heart on this one goal and won't admit that it's not working for her. 

Lorelai sure didn't help in that regard. You watch your child grow up and you can see their strong points and where they need work. It was blatantly obvious that Rory didn't have the passion and drive for reporting that someone like Lucinda Franks has. Lorelai should have given Rory better guidance.

[scarynikki12]

I think Lorelai saw that Rory was a talented writer, was interested in world events, and admired the work of Amanpour and made the mistake of thinking that's all she would need to pursue journalism. The Rory Gilmore shine was so strong that Lorelai, Emily, Richard, Lane, various boyfriends, the town, etc., all missed that she wasn't suited for the job. Then, when Mitchum revealed himself to be the only person who didn't fall for that shine, exactly no one took a moment to consider if he was right (he was). Nope, they all immediately assumed he was an evil man out to get Rory and ruin her life.

Which brings me to Rory's decision to take time off from Yale. Now, in general, I don't think taking a semester or year off is a bad thing. Mitchum's criticism wrecked her world and how she saw herself so I get why she would want to put things on hold to reassess and make sure the path she was on was truly what she wanted not what she used to want but continued to pursue because it had always been the plan. Rory had also just committed a felony and had no idea what was going to happen next (jail? more community service than she received?) so putting Yale on hold to focus on that fallout also makes sense. But my issue goes back to how the creative team didn't see the Rory that ended up on screen. I would have loved to see Rory tell Lorelai something along the lines of: "Mom, I need this time off. Mitchum gave me some criticism and I stole a boat! Who does that? There was a time in my life when I would have taken that criticism and shown him what I can really do* and instead I committed a felony! If this is all it takes for me to have a complete meltdown then how can I possibly succeed as a journalist? It's better that I put Yale on hold while I figure things out because I don't want to graduate with a degree in something that it turns out I'm not suited for." Just with ASP type dialogue. I know the point of all of this was to set up the mother daughter rift but I'd rather that have come from Rory's increasing comfort with the Gilmore world and shift from a shy, thoughtful, and kind girl to a spoiled and self-centered brat.

This is a long winded way of saying that I will always agree that Rory wasn't cut out for journalism and would have been better suited for something like teaching. At a school like Chilton she would even be encouraged to continue to hone her writing talents and they'd be all over it if she wrote books in addition to the requirements of her job. The revival was far more honest about who she really was but it's a shame we didn't get that level of awareness during the series. It would have been really interesting to see Rory's Yale journey include a realization that her passion was in the great work that journalists do but wasn't actually something she wanted to pursue. Lorelai didn't know right away that she wanted to own her own inn but came to that realization as she worked her way up at the Independence. Rory's story could have paralleled that nicely.

*Thinking of the Chilton years and how Rory improved in her studies in response to that D she got.

[junienmomo]

On 12/4/2019 at 10:04 PM, Taryn74 said:

Sometimes I have to remind myself I really do love this show, heh, so having a reason to not hate the Revival with a flaming passion is a good thing, so thank you for that.

Same here, although I found the Revival to be meh and simply wrong in some things. It still wasn’t as bad as the dead-to-me second half of S6.

I have to deliberately turn away from criticizing too much. It is more heartening for me to relive and discuss the fun stuff. That’s what makes the Elimination Game so much fun.

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, junienmomo said:

I have to deliberately turn away from criticizing too much. It is more heartening for me to relive and discuss the fun stuff. That’s what makes the Elimination Game so much fun.

Same!

[andromeda331]

14 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I think Lorelai saw that Rory was a talented writer, was interested in world events, and admired the work of Amanpour and made the mistake of thinking that's all she would need to pursue journalism. The Rory Gilmore shine was so strong that Lorelai, Emily, Richard, Lane, various boyfriends, the town, etc., all missed that she wasn't suited for the job. Then, when Mitchum revealed himself to be the only person who didn't fall for that shine, exactly no one took a moment to consider if he was right (he was). Nope, they all immediately assumed he was an evil man out to get Rory and ruin her life.

Which brings me to Rory's decision to take time off from Yale. Now, in general, I don't think taking a semester or year off is a bad thing. Mitchum's criticism wrecked her world and how she saw herself so I get why she would want to put things on hold to reassess and make sure the path she was on was truly what she wanted not what she used to want but continued to pursue because it had always been the plan. Rory had also just committed a felony and had no idea what was going to happen next (jail? more community service than she received?) so putting Yale on hold to focus on that fallout also makes sense. But my issue goes back to how the creative team didn't see the Rory that ended up on screen. I would have loved to see Rory tell Lorelai something along the lines of: "Mom, I need this time off. Mitchum gave me some criticism and I stole a boat! Who does that? There was a time in my life when I would have taken that criticism and shown him what I can really do* and instead I committed a felony! If this is all it takes for me to have a complete meltdown then how can I possibly succeed as a journalist? It's better that I put Yale on hold while I figure things out because I don't want to graduate with a degree in something that it turns out I'm not suited for." Just with ASP type dialogue. I know the point of all of this was to set up the mother daughter rift but I'd rather that have come from Rory's increasing comfort with the Gilmore world and shift from a shy, thoughtful, and kind girl to a spoiled and self-centered brat.

This is a long winded way of saying that I will always agree that Rory wasn't cut out for journalism and would have been better suited for something like teaching. At a school like Chilton she would even be encouraged to continue to hone her writing talents and they'd be all over it if she wrote books in addition to the requirements of her job. The revival was far more honest about who she really was but it's a shame we didn't get that level of awareness during the series. It would have been really interesting to see Rory's Yale journey include a realization that her passion was in the great work that journalists do but wasn't actually something she wanted to pursue. Lorelai didn't know right away that she wanted to own her own inn but came to that realization as she worked her way up at the Independence. Rory's story could have paralleled that nicely.

*Thinking of the Chilton years and how Rory improved in her studies in response to that D she got.

That would have made so much sense. As much as I don't like how it happened. What really stinks is they end up doing nothing with it. Rory doesn't explore different careers, try different jobs or anything. That could have been great and interesting. Have her realizing she never considered any other job. Maybe she finds something she likes. Maybe teaching? She loved school. Maybe something in research. She would be an excellent assistant or maybe fundraising. The way she worked on the DAR fundraiser. She did a good job and really seemed to enjoy it. Or something completely else. Show her really questioning journalism. She doesn't have any of the skills she needs. To go out there, walk the pavement and find stories. Going into warzones and stuff. Really thinking about her skills. Her strengths and weaknesses. 

They also don't show her deciding to go back to journalism. She did love writing. Show her looking at her old articles or books. Maybe deciding a different position in writing or deciding to be better. She has all these months off to exploring different careers and herself and she doesn't. Nope she parties and waste time before going back to Yale and newspaper as if nothing happened. There ended up being no point to it. Even if the partying could have been a distraction, blowing off steam, thinking maybe she missed out on stuff, or something. Nope nothing. 

The split was stupid. I get why Lorelai was ticked off at first at Weston's when she tried to talk some sense into her daughter and Richard and Emily going back on their plan. But her asking Richard about his plan, was stupid. What was your plan Lorelai? It would make more sense for Lorelai to be worrying that Rory won't go back to school knowing how easy that is to happen, worrying Rory was throwing away a college degree she knows how hard it can be without one, worrying she put too much pressure on her daughter even if she didn't mean too, or just worried that Rory who loved school and writing, just stole a boat and dropped out of school. Having Emily and Richard worried too about Rory. They didn't have a plan. No one ever really talks to her when she drops out except Logan but that's in the beginning. They both seem oddly fine until Richard starts having a problem after Lorelai asks him about their plan. Why wasn't he talking to her? Or trying to? She's been in the house for months. He never tried to ask her what happen or ask about the job? Emily's the one who gets her a job. That really only seems to happen after Emily catches Rory talking with the maid. Why are they so happy to let Rory bum around at their house? It would be one thing if we heard them talking about it, wondering if they made the wrong decision. They were hard on Lorelai and she bailed, they tried not to be hard on Rory but wondering if maybe this time they should? If they didn't believe Lorelai, then what do they think happened? Why is no one try to talk to Rory or talk sense into her?  It could have been a really good storyline for all Gilmores and it didn't. In the end nothing happened.

[Katy M]

11 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

That would have made so much sense. As much as I don't like how it happened. What really stinks is they end up doing nothing with it. Rory doesn't explore different careers, try different jobs or anything. That could have been great and interesting. Have her realizing she never considered any other job. Maybe she finds something she likes. Maybe teaching? She loved school. Maybe something in research. She would be an excellent assistant or maybe fundraising. The way she worked on the DAR fundraiser. She did a good job and really seemed to enjoy it. Or something completely else. Show her really questioning journalism. She doesn't have any of the skills she needs. To go out there, walk the pavement and find stories. Going into warzones and stuff. Really thinking about her skills. Her strengths and weaknesses. 

They also don't show her deciding to go back to journalism. She did love writing. Show her looking at her old articles or books. Maybe deciding a different position in writing or deciding to be better. She has all these months off to exploring different careers and herself and she doesn't. Nope she parties and waste time before going back to Yale and newspaper as if nothing happened. There ended up being no point to it. Even if the partying could have been a distraction, blowing off steam, thinking maybe she missed out on stuff, or something. Nope nothing. 

The split was stupid. I get why Lorelai was ticked off at first at Weston's when she tried to talk some sense into her daughter and Richard and Emily going back on their plan. But her asking Richard about his plan, was stupid. What was your plan Lorelai? It would make more sense for Lorelai to be worrying that Rory won't go back to school knowing how easy that is to happen, worrying Rory was throwing away a college degree she knows how hard it can be without one, worrying she put too much pressure on her daughter even if she didn't mean too, or just worried that Rory who loved school and writing, just stole a boat and dropped out of school. Having Emily and Richard worried too about Rory. They didn't have a plan. No one ever really talks to her when she drops out except Logan but that's in the beginning. They both seem oddly fine until Richard starts having a problem after Lorelai asks him about their plan. Why wasn't he talking to her? Or trying to? She's been in the house for months. He never tried to ask her what happen or ask about the job? Emily's the one who gets her a job. That really only seems to happen after Emily catches Rory talking with the maid. Why are they so happy to let Rory bum around at their house? It would be one thing if we heard them talking about it, wondering if they made the wrong decision. They were hard on Lorelai and she bailed, they tried not to be hard on Rory but wondering if maybe this time they should? If they didn't believe Lorelai, then what do they think happened? Why is no one try to talk to Rory or talk sense into her?  It could have been a really good storyline for all Gilmores and it didn't. In the end nothing happened.

I think it would have been great if she had found some passionate interest that came out of her community service.  Probably not the picking up trash at the side of the road one, but something.  If we go back to the teaching idea, she could have done some community service with at-risk youth.  Decide she wants to teach at low-income schools.  She obviously wouldn't get rich, but she would have been making a difference and she does have a trust fund to fall back on.  Emily and Richard, but especially Emily, would have had a cow and it would have made for some great drama and character growth.  And, she could still work on writing books on the side and during the summers.  There was nothing to indicate that Rory wasn't a good writer, just not an assertive, outgoing reporter type.

[andromeda331]

6 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I think it would have been great if she had found some passionate interest that came out of her community service.  Probably not the picking up trash at the side of the road one, but something.  If we go back to the teaching idea, she could have done some community service with at-risk youth.  Decide she wants to teach at low-income schools.  She obviously wouldn't get rich, but she would have been making a difference and she does have a trust fund to fall back on.  Emily and Richard, but especially Emily, would have had a cow and it would have made for some great drama and character growth.  And, she could still work on writing books on the side and during the summers.  There was nothing to indicate that Rory wasn't a good writer, just not an assertive, outgoing reporter type.

That would have been great and fit Rory perfectly. She loved school, classes and learning. Going into teaching would have been great. At risk youth or low income where she could really make a difference. True while she didn't have what it took to be a journalist she was good a writing she could have choose a different field. Maybe writing for publications on books or something. She probably would be a good at writing books.

[Taryn74]

I love all of these ideas so much! Can we just have a do-over of the Revival, please, and incorporate ideas from people who actually get the characters?

Damn it all. #stillbitter

[Kohola3]

2 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

Damn it all. #stillbitter

Can we hear an hallelujah!  A thousand from me.  Not one single redeeming minute of content in that atrocity,

[Taryn74]

35 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Can we hear an hallelujah!  A thousand from me.  Not one single redeeming minute of content in that atrocity,

It's even worse this time of year (well, two or three weeks ago) because my FB memories pop up and I was sooooo excited for the Revival, and the trailer made it look like it was actually going to be good, and my daughter and my friends and I were all so excited to see it, and ......... nope.

[Taryn74]

My daughter cracks me up so much. She'll send me random messages as she's rewatching GG. I love that she enjoys this show as much as I do. And I started watching it when she was barely in kindergarten! Blows my mind.

[slf]

I would have preferred Rory becoming more assertive and learning what she needed to be to become a reporter. I think that would have been more interesting than Rory staying in her shell and becoming a teacher. Such a huge part of Rory's relationships with her mom and grandparents was how passive she was, always going along with what they wanted. Something a lot of posters have said here over the years is that that part of Rory's personality is why she and Lorelai were so close and it would have been interesting, and telling, to see Lorelai have to parent a child as strong-willed as she was. And I agree. I think Rory evolving into someone a more assertive and confident - not extroverted and hyper like Lorelai, because plenty of reporters are personally more reserved and introverted - could have thrown a wrench into her relationship with the others. I would have rather watched that than what we got.

[sara416]

On 12/4/2019 at 7:39 AM, andromeda331 said:

Mine too. Its one thing to go out in the world and really try and it not work out. That happens. But we never get any sense or sign that Rory even tried. They tell us very little about her career except for two articles she wrote. That's it. Rory's not even really trying any point in the Revival. They show her being so completely unprofessional all the time. She agrees to write the biography for that woman who Rory keeps trashing and making fun of to anyone she talks to and is shocked it got back to the woman who fired her? Then she goes into that interview and is shocked, shocked when they ask her what ideas she has on stories. Why is she so shocked by that? She's a journalist. She's being hired as a journalist, of course their going to want to know what stories she has. Instead of coming up with answers all she can say is she's wearing the wrong dress. She spent all her time looking for the right dress rather then bother to prepare for the interview. Then when she finds out she's not getting the job on that phone call she is absolutely rude and nasty. She finally gets an article to write. Interviewing people waiting in line. How hard can that be? Well, if your Rory. You ask a couple questions, sleep with a Wookie and quit. Because its not interesting. Not only that. They show us Rory interview people. She's crappy at it. Lorelai did a much better job and she's not a journalist. Rory just quits and walks away from the article. That's three different jobs that Rory blows and all because she can't be bother to try. To suck it up and work on the book, to come up with stories, or even do a very simple easy article. Where in any of that is Rory actually trying? Where is she sucking it up to do her job? Her career is barely a career because of Rory.  

We never see Rory sick with worry over money, over her career, struggling or anything. She acts exactly the same why she did in college that she should get all praise and be handed any article she thinks is interesting. They never once show us her actually trying.  Or do anything but jetting off to Logan.

And yes it makes no sense that everyone else is okay with that. Lorelai is fine with a daughter who doesn't do anything? She worked her way up, went back to college, and opened her own inn. But she's okay with a daughter who does nothing? Emily's okay with that? Lane? No one talks to Rory about it. Their all okay with Rory keeping her stuff at their homes? Lane who has a husband and two sons who needs all the space she can get. She's totally okay with her barely working trust fund friend keeping stuff at her house? They all act like its normal and fine. There's not even anyone pretending or talking to each other. Lorelai never talks with Luke or Sookie about Rory's lack of working? We're get to watch Rory and Lorelai making fun of the 30 year old still living at home even though from what they've shown us Rory isn't any different or actually worse because we don't see any signs that Rory's actually tried. As far as we know the other group actually has and are out of work due to lay offs, downsizing or jobs that don't pay a lot.

All of this is because the revival was supposed to be Season 7. All of Rory's characteristics, the cloundering, the not having money, the directionlessness, are all totally appropriate for a 23 year old. But they are not appropriate for someone in their 30s. But because ASP didn't get her season 7, they just made the revival the same as it would have been. 

[Taryn74]

2 minutes ago, sara416 said:

But because ASP didn't get her season 7, they just made the revival the same as it would have been. 

Which is utterly, utterly ridiculous. Even if her highness wanted to insist on keeping the storyline she had in mind the same, she should have just pretended as though the Revival occurred right after the S7 we got rather than following chronological time. Who cares if the actors were 10 years older, it would have been far better and easier to handwave that away, than fans who love this show having to deal with Rory in her 30s floundering like a 23 - 24 yo who's never really had to make it on her own might be expected to.

It just makes me sick, and the more I think about it the sicker I get. And it's been a year! LOL. I should really get a life.

[clack]

It could have been an easy fix. Have Rory enjoy a successful journalist career, and then begin to flounder only as paying journalism jobs disappear.

Then ASP might then have fixed the Logan situation. Rory hasn't seen Logan in 10 years, her career is going into a tailspin, Logan reappears and seemingly offers a life raft. When she finds out Logan is engaged, we could see her struggle with a moral quandary.

[chitowngirl]

On 12/16/2019 at 5:22 PM, clack said:

It could have been an easy fix. Have Rory enjoy a successful journalist career, and then begin to flounder only as paying journalism jobs disappear.

Then ASP might then have fixed the Logan situation. Rory hasn't seen Logan in 10 years, her career is going into a tailspin, Logan reappears and seemingly offers a life raft. When she finds out Logan is engaged, we could see her struggle with a moral quandary.

I would watch that!

[FictionLover]

I’m not sure if this should be on this thread or unpopular opinions. I never felt that “best friends” plot of the show. At least the feelings coming from Rory to her mom. She most often kept big stuff from her, like getting a “D” on a paper, why she and Dean broke up, kissing Jess, being named valedictorian, not getting the fellowship and other things that I can’t remember off hand.  The friendship relationship was way more one-sided coming from Lorelai in this viewer’s eyes. It seemed like a close mom-daughter relationship, but best friends just never rang true to me.

 

[marineg]

I think the biggest lie came from Lorelai who told her mom in There's The Rub (2x16) "[Rory and I] are best friends first and mother and daughter second, and you and I are mother and daughter always."

I agree with you: it never felt like best friends, even coming from Lorelai. Lorelai had Rory at 16, so she was very close with her. No matter how close you are with your kid, as long as you are a good parent -and whatever we may think about Lorelai, she was a good parent- you can't be their best friends. Best friends are there when you make mistakes, they confide in you about everything, they stand by you even when they think you are going down the wrong path. That was Lane. Parents guide you, support you, pick you up when you fall, teach you right from wrong. That's Lorelai. 

When Lane dyed her hair purple, Rory helped her, no matter what she thought. Do you think Lorelai would have done the same for Rory if she had asked?
When Rory needed to talk about sex, she always, always, always went to Lane (about her 1st time with Dean and when Logan was in London).
When Rory needed to drop out, no matter the stupid reason, Lorelai was judgmental and trying to set her on the right path. Lane accepted it, like she accepted it when Rory went back. 

Lane was always someone Rory could talk to, and who would have her back. Lorelai had her back, but no matter what, she would try to educate and guide Rory. As she should. She was always a mother, never a best friend.

Edited January 2, 2020 by marineg

[andromeda331]

I love all interactions between Gypsy and Jess so much in Nag Hammadi Is Where They Found the Gnostic Gospel. She's so awesome. Starting with her refusing to go to where his car was and making him bring it to her. And he did. I know he wanted to get out of town. But it was still so awesome that she refused to budge and Jess had to given. While he's being his usual ass while Gypsy's checking out his car she has awesome comebacks forever thing he says especially "I've seen dumber things talk." and telling him to bring a lot of money because she's going to over charge him like he's never been over charged before. Jess makes a snot comment about her saying that to all the guys and Gypsy immediately starts saying maybe she'll close early tonight shutting him up. I don't think we ever see anyone deal with Jess the way Gypsy does. It was awesome. She makes him bring the car to her, when he smarts off one too many times she's starts talking about closing early. You know she'd do it to. It makes no difference to her.

Here's the exchange

Jess: Well?

Gypsy: Still looking. 

Jess: What's the matter with it?

Gypsy: Still looking.

Jess: You've been circling that thing|for 15 minutes. You waiting for it|to tell you where it hurts?

Gypsy: I've seen dumber things talk.

Jess: Just tell me what's wrong with the car.

Gypsy: You need a carburetor.

Jess: So how long till it's fixed? 

Gypsy: Not sure.

Jess: It has to be today. I have to get out of this half-mile four-block freak hole of a medical experiment.

Gypsy: You are delightful. I'll have you out of here tonight. Go away and come back at closing. And bring a lot of money,because I'm going to overcharge you like you've never been overcharged before.

Jess: I bet you say that to all the guys.

Gypsy: On second thought, maybe I'm closing early tonight.

Jess: I'm going.

Edited January 17, 2020 by andromeda331

[blueray]

On 1/2/2020 at 6:40 PM, marineg said:

When Lane dyed her hair purple, Rory helped her, no matter what she thought. Do you think Lorelai would have done the same for Rory if she had asked?

I think she would have actually. Lorelai would have totally been into that especially if it was before a Friday night dinner.

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, blueray said:

I think she would have actually. Lorelai would have totally been into that especially if it was before a Friday night dinner.

And wear a tube top with a penis on it.

[readster]

On 12/11/2019 at 6:05 PM, sara416 said:

All of this is because the revival was supposed to be Season 7. All of Rory's characteristics, the cloundering, the not having money, the directionlessness, are all totally appropriate for a 23 year old. But they are not appropriate for someone in their 30s. But because ASP didn't get her season 7, they just made the revival the same as it would have been. 

I also how AS-P and her husband still depicted "higher society" even with the former Dr. Corday on the show. They had her basically stealing people's food because she could. Never thinking those people might want their meals or have some where to get to by a certain time. I didn't have a problem with Rory saying "she's a drunk" however it was very unprofessional how she talked about her and never THOUGHT it get back to her. However, just like with Emily calling bullshit on the DAR screening process. It made everyone come across like they could do or say whatever they wanted and it never got back to them. AS-P and her husband's writing, seriously has become crap. Thinking they could do "whatever" they wanted and everyone would worship the ground they walked on. Which proved to be the opposite yet they still go: "Well, it was my vision of how I wanted the series to go." Instead of: "you look like a bunch of armatures with too much money."

[junienmomo]

19 hours ago, readster said:

I also how AS-P and her husband still depicted "higher society" even with the former Dr. Corday on the show. They had her basically stealing people's food because she could. Never thinking those people might want their meals or have some where to get to by a certain time. I didn't have a problem with Rory saying "she's a drunk" however it was very unprofessional how she talked about her and never THOUGHT it get back to her. However, just like with Emily calling bullshit on the DAR screening process. It made everyone come across like they could do or say whatever they wanted and it never got back to them. AS-P and her husband's writing, seriously has become crap. Thinking they could do "whatever" they wanted and everyone would worship the ground they walked on. Which proved to be the opposite yet they still go: "Well, it was my vision of how I wanted the series to go." Instead of: "you look like a bunch of armatures with too much money."

Well said, Readster. 

I wish the Palladinos had flounced at the end of season 5. 

David Rosenthal and a couple of other writers (and a good editor!) would have made a couple more seasons with perhaps fewer witticisms, but a more satisfied viewership.

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, junienmomo said:

Well said, Readster. 

I wish the Palladinos had flounced at the end of season 5. 

David Rosenthal and a couple of other writers (and a good editor!) would have made a couple more seasons with perhaps fewer witticisms, but a more satisfied viewership.

You know he might have. I actually liked Rory and Logan in season 7. No one was more surprised then me. Him dropping everything to be with Rory when Richard had a heart attack and not freaking out when Rory was freaking out over a crush. We got a scene where Lorelai actually talked about her problem with Logan to Logan. How nice was that? They ended the talk well and had pie and ice cream. It wasn't perfect the 13 episodes with Christopher and Lorelai dating and getting married were just all around bad, they were boring together, they weren't funny or interesting and of course zero focus on Christopher and Rory's relationship or any of their problems. When ever he wasn't around and the second he was gone the scenes got better.  And of course throwing Jackson under the bus that never should have happen. But I liked more in season 7 then I did in season 5 and 6. 

[readster]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

You know he might have. I actually liked Rory and Logan in season 7. No one was more surprised then me. Him dropping everything to be with Rory when Richard had a heart attack and not freaking out when Rory was freaking out over a crush. We got a scene where Lorelai actually talked about her problem with Logan to Logan. How nice was that? They ended the talk well and had pie and ice cream. It wasn't perfect the 13 episodes with Christopher and Lorelai dating and getting married were just all around bad, they were boring together, they weren't funny or interesting and of course zero focus on Christopher and Rory's relationship or any of their problems. When ever he wasn't around and the second he was gone the scenes got better.  And of course throwing Jackson under the bus that never should have happen. But I liked more in season 7 then I did in season 5 and 6. 

Right, it was like Rosethal was: "ok, let's get everyone's Lorelai and Christopher out of their systems for good." Of course, but didn't do ANY focus on Chris's relationship with Rory or hell even Rory and Georgia's relationship. It just painted Christopher as: "I just like banging Lorelai more than being a father." "But hey, I'm attractive!" Other wise, the character work on everyone else was great and you know, MADE SENSE. Instead of AS-P coming back and going: "God! Who the hell you think you were writing MY CHARACTERS!" "Here is how they SHOULD BE!" Just no. 

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, readster said:

Right, it was like Rosethal was: "ok, let's get everyone's Lorelai and Christopher out of their systems for good." Of course, but didn't do ANY focus on Chris's relationship with Rory or hell even Rory and Georgia's relationship. It just painted Christopher as: "I just like banging Lorelai more than being a father." "But hey, I'm attractive!" Other wise, the character work on everyone else was great and you know, MADE SENSE. Instead of AS-P coming back and going: "God! Who the hell you think you were writing MY CHARACTERS!" "Here is how they SHOULD BE!" Just no. 

Exactly, he got it done and finally made them move on. I didn't like because there was no focus on Christopher and Rory, Rory and Georgia, Lorelai and Christopher never talking about their past, him never doing anything or co-parenting Georgia. Rory should have been pissed that her parents married without her and at her mother who told her way back in season one why she wouldn't marry her dad and now it happened when she was a senior in college or her dad being around now given how many times he bailed on her. It should have finally broken and ended Emily's and Richard's always wanting the two to marriage and see why it was a bad idea and never would have worked. Rory should have been pissed as hell that Christopher had no problem letting his mother babysit Georgia when given she's done nothing for Rory. Shoot they should have brought Francine back for an episode or something her son married Lorelai. There should have been a dust up. But it put Rosenthal put an end to it for good and moved on once and for all.

[andromeda331]

As embarrassing as it is to watch I love how awkward Rory is around Dean in Cinnamon's Wake and how tongue tied she is. Pretty much everything that comes out of her mouth when she speaks or tries to speak to him was bad. But I like that they did it. She's someone who's never dated so it makes complete sense. I do like Dean's confused and at the end thinks it means she's not interested.

How bad is it though that watching the pilot when Rory suddenly doesn't want to go to Chilton after meeting Dean and think wow here's Rory's first dumb decision based on a boy and not even the dumbest one she'll make with Dean? Although I guess if she's ready to blow off a school she's wanted to get into over a boy she just met I guess its not surprising the dumb stuff she does later?