Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I've ways wondered what Michelle meant by that ... is she saying fruit doesn't last because no one eats it and it lays around and just goes bad, or does she mean fruit doesn't last because the kids eat it so quickly? Because if the kids are eating it I'd think that would be a good thing and she'd want to encourage it. And I know as kids we loved fresh fruit. It never hung around long enough to spoil and go to waste in our home. Is that a thing that actually happens?  I dont understand what she is talking about.

I suspect what she really means is fresh fruit is too expensive to supply for all those kids and keeping a supply around would require frequent shopping which she doesn't want to deal with, even if she was willing to spend the money.

I hope that between the influence of Derick and her time in Central America, Jill has developed more of an appreciation for fresh fruits and vegetables than her mother instilled in her. Although the canned green bean French fries aren't very encouraging. Maybe they are just something from her childhood she developed a taste for. But she should consider steaming up some fresh beans and using those.  They'd have to taste better. Although she comes from a crew who didn't know how to make mashed potatoes, so steaming beans may be beyond her capabilities.

I expect it's this one. Seems to me I've heard of some filmed incidents in which the kids were practically inhaling some fresh fruit that showed up. (could be a hallucination on my part, though, cause it's just hearsay.)   

Anyway, though, I'm betting on this one because, as you say, kids (and adults!) tend to love fresh fruit, and I do think I remember hearing about them eating it. ........

And....because this is Michelle we're talking about. She couldn't have them quickly eating and getting a taste for non-storable items, since the next time she ran out of them no J-slave might be available for a store run because they were all too busy feeding, dressing, managing, laundering and educating the dozens of children who are her frigging badge of honor. And somebody might suggest that she, the matriarch of the ages, go and shop for them herself. So -- No fruit for you!

[Minivanessa]

Not everybody grows up in a home where fresh fruit is a thing - regardless of the number of kids in the house. I don't know why, but we had very little fresh fruit in the house when I was a kid. I remember being surprised when my college boyfriend reached into a lunch sack saying he was looking forward to the treat - and he pulled out an apple. My idea of a "treat" was a piece of candy or a cookie. 

I can believe that for MEchelle, keeping enough fresh fruit on hand for that household, would be too much work and perhaps too much expense. (Never mind how much they'd save if they cut out all the styrofoam dishes and plastic utensils, and actually USED those commercial grade dishwashers that TLC installed in their kitchen. Can't believe the cost of running them would be greater than the pallets of landfill fodder they must use up every year just for regular meals.) Processed food - consisting largely of cheap starch and sugars - is cheaper to buy and easier to store.

Those canned green beans that Jilly finds such a treat, may be the healthiest thing in the TTH pantry.

It's possible that Michelle and/or JB as kids never particularly liked fresh fruit, so it's not a priority for them as parents. Or they liked it but the cost/effort was too much when it comes to feeding their kids. 

Edited September 11, 2016 by Jeeves
Sorry if this is a little OT, realized after posting this is the Dillard topic.

[riverblue22]

When Michelle says fresh fruit she's probably thinking of grapes which kids do love and would probably disappear the minute they were brought into the house.  Has anyone ever seen fresh fruit in that house?  The closest I can think of are bags of lettuce probably topped with some tomato.

ETA:  Was that industrial kitchen given to them? It's not something they seem to care at all about except for show.  They were probably using (and re-using) paper plates in the tiny church house.

Edited September 11, 2016 by riverblue22

[ginger90]

It would seem the camera person wanted to make sure we saw Izzy was standing on a window air conditioner. That child is going to get hurt one of these days. He stood up and turned around in the high chair while they were eating too. Jill and Derek didn't seem to know they could remove their butts from their own chairs....

Jill wants to have another child so that he knows the world doesn't "revolve around him"???  WTH?

[Defrauder]

I think Michelle and the fresh fruit story was just her excuse not to have to go to the trouble of buying/washing/cutting and feeding children fresh fruit.  Simply put it was just too much trouble for her.  Much easier to open a can of peas and grab a plastic spoon or pour some milk over fruit flavored cereal.  Real dishes are too much work for them.  I mean they've got commercial grade dishwashers.  Give me a break.  No way are those kids getting fresh fruit.

[Defrauder]

7 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

It would seem the camera person wanted to make sure we saw Izzy was standing on a window air conditioner. That child is going to get hurt one of these days. He stood up and turned around in the high chair while they were eating too. Jill and Derek didn't seem to know they could remove their butts from their own chairs....

Jill wants to have another child so that he knows the world doesn't "revolve around him"???  WTH?

Yeah that's horrible.  I mean he's only a year old he should feel loved.  I can't stand Jill.  She can't wait to impress on Izzy that the world actually revolves around HER.

[Rabbittron]

Next on Counting On  fresh fruit. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

3 minutes ago, Rabbittron said:

Next on Counting On  fresh fruit. 

I called that FU already. Maybe I did it here or on another board..LOL When it comes to this messed up family, I have zero fucks to give anymore.

My SIL insists that my 2 nieces "get their fresh fruit" every day.  Most children love fruit.

I truly think that anything that requires effort is just not done by this family, unless it's a selfie or a Starbucks run.

[Defrauder]

I don't think Jill has a heart for children.

[GeeGolly]

When you're a stay-at-home mom of one, your kid is the center of his universe, cuz that's how it rolls for 1 year olds.

And most parents, when they're pregnant with their second child, feel bad for their first born's universe, because they know they'll feel torn dividing up their time and attention.

Edited September 11, 2016 by GeeGolly

[Arwen Evenstar]

9 minutes ago, Defrauder said:

I don't think Jill has a heart for children.

No, she clearly doesn't....and she really wasn't prepared to be a mother.  She thought motherhood guaranteed her a string of minions just like Mama had. When that didn't happen, she didn't put on her big girl panties. 

Izzy deserves to be wanted, not just to be bred cuz "that's what Duggars do!" And she "wants" another one.....has she lost her mind? 

[Defrauder]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

When you're a stay-at-home mom of one, your kid is the center of his universe, cuz that's how it rolls for 1 year olds.

And most parents, when they're pregnant with their second child, feel bad that their first born's universe, because they know they'll feel torn dividing up their time and attention.

Agree. And it's good for 1 year olds - they need that bonding, the knowing that they are loved and have someone consistent.  It's imperative that they feel that bond.  When siblings come along if they are secure in that bonding and love to begin with it's easier for them.  If they don't - then there is more rivalry.   The future siblings learn that love and bonding is possible in an environment with siblings from the start but the first born naturally has to have a strong bond to feel secure for future kids that come along.  Jill wants to 'teach' him- he's not all that.  Wrong approach - more rivalry that way and jealousy and bad idea.  Jill apparently is looking forward to showing Izzy he's not #1 in her life.

[Defrauder]

8 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

No, she clearly doesn't....and she really wasn't prepared to be a mother.  She thought motherhood guaranteed her a string of minions just like Mama had. When that didn't happen, she didn't put on her big girl panties. 

Izzy deserves to be wanted, not just to be bred cuz "that's what Duggars do!" And she "wants" another one.....has she lost her mind? 

No, JB and Michelle threw it out for her years before. She just never found it.

[BitterApple]

I agree with the above comments. Jill can't handle one kid, so her solution is to have another. That way Izzy can get the message that it's not all about him. Duggar logic at its' finest.

[lascuba]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

I agree with the above comments. Jill can't handle one kid, so her solution is to have another. That way Izzy can get the message that it's not all about him. Duggar logic at its' finest.

When you put it that way, it makes a strange sort of sense to me. I think Jill is good at the grunt work of caring for a bunch of people--the cooking, cleaning, diaper changing, potty training, homeschooling etc. for a lot of people at the same time makes it really easy to have hard and fast rules and not take individual considerations into account...you just can't logistically. But one kid? She actually has to notice his personality and adjust her practices accordingly, because she has all the time in the world to notice. And that's harder, emotionally. It's not a coincidence that the siblings Jill is closest to are the ones that she had authority over because she was their caretaker. She's closer to Jessa now (assuming that's not all for show)because they have motherhood in common, but before that she clearly wasn't close to Jana, Jessa, Jinger or the brothers closest to her in age. She's too stuck on following the rules and holding people accountable to be able to deal with close, personal relationships except her husband. Having multiple children to care for would put her right back in her comfort zone, in thoughtless drill sergeant mode. 

[NewDigs]

I think Jill needs professional help. With a therapist.

She seems to always look at loose ends and disconnected. PPD?

Dunno. I'm not a professional and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. But her eyes... Sad.

[Churchhoney]

3 hours ago, Defrauder said:

Yeah that's horrible.  I mean he's only a year old he should feel loved.  I can't stand Jill.  She can't wait to impress on Izzy that the world actually revolves around HER.

replying to Ginger90, who said --"It would seem the camera person wanted to make sure we saw Izzy was standing on a window air conditioner. That child is going to get hurt one of these days. He stood up and turned around in the high chair while they were eating too. Jill and Derek didn't seem to know they could remove their butts from their own chairs....

Jill wants to have another child so that he knows the world doesn't "revolve around him"???  WTH?"

 

From my perspective, though, it's important to remember that not one of the Duggar kids has ever been loved. The only way they've ever gotten to have the world revolve around them is by making it revolve around them by themselves. Every single one of them, even the ones accounted "favorites," has been utterly unloved always, because they've only existed for the greater glory of their parents. Their models for life have been severely warped from the very beginning and are going to play out in ways that normal people will find horrifying.

So while it's easy to say, "Well, they've had kids now; so it's time for them to snap out of it and be good parents," I judge that, from my own experience, close to impossible to do. Their personalities, even their physical brains have been entirely formed by a lifetime of having none of the things that even puppies and baby monkeys are supposed to have to grow up in decent health and to GET PAST the infantile developmental stages and to actually turn into functional adults. They've each developed their own ways of coping with that, of trying to provide for themselves what they need -- and all of those ways are different, but they're all sad and warped. And all their different ways of coping will get seriously in the way of their being able to love partners and children and anybody else in the way that normal people expect.

Frankly, somebody who's had equivalently sick and twisted childhood and has gotten past it on their own to love in a normal fashion is about the only person from whom I think criticism of the Duggar's love styles is really warranted. But I've never met such a person, although I'm sure there are some out there. I had an equivalently warped childhood, although I also had many many more outlets and opportunities to learn things than they have, and despite my much greater advantages I'm every bit as warped as they are, despite living away from my family, therapy and decades of actual efforts to change.

So I'm afraid we're expecting way too much of Muffy. Or Jessa. Or Jinger. Or Josh. Or any of the rest of them. As far as I've been able to tell, you can only come a small way toward a recovery from being systematically destroyed from the moment of your birth onward. What happens to you in a situation like that primarily affects your relationships with others. And unfortunately, if you're unaware enough and fertile enough to produce a new generation, you pass on a lot of your warping to them, albeit in a somewhat different form, depending on what crazy coping strategy your particular child mind came up with.

[Platypus]

1 hour ago, Defrauder said:

Jill wants to 'teach' him- he's not all that.  Wrong approach - more rivalry that way and jealousy and bad idea.  Jill apparently is looking forward to showing Izzy he's not #1 in her life.

I don't think Jill has any clue the parent child relationship can be like that.  Michelle and JB are her main parenting models.  She's not very intuitive so I don't think she'd readily pick up on a different dynamic in other families.  I was the "Jill" in my family and that's how I started out parenting my oldest.  Thank goodness for the internet and mommy boards, that's how I learned better

[Arwen Evenstar]

@Churchhoney--Bravo! You really should consider writing a book!

Every point you've made has been excellent.  There are times I feel like I'm too hard on them, though most of my dismay and snark is more of a FU to Boob and Chelle than to any of the kids.

The Duggar Family is a social experiment gone wrong on all levels from Josh all the way to poor little Josie. I'm surprised books are not already being written about this train wreck. 

I'm rooting for all of them to wake up and smell the tater tot caserole and get deprogrammed as soon as possible.  There's a show on one of the networks about rescuing women from polygamist cults.  Even those who loathe the Duggars  would happily watch Breaking Duggar. These kids are going to have a lot of issues. Out of respect for their dignity, it's not going to be good television to watch them break down on camera. 

I would like to see them get some of the following:

• visit brick and mortar trade schools/schools/college
• Littles given intensive catch up schooling and socialized for proper school behavior
• Kidult girls and boys sent to finishing school to learn to speak and proper table manners
• preparation to enter the work force
• Josie caught up
• Extensive therapy for Josh and his victims that actually helps them

is TLC reading this?

[GeeGolly]

47 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

replying to Ginger90, who said --"It would seem the camera person wanted to make sure we saw Izzy was standing on a window air conditioner. That child is going to get hurt one of these days. He stood up and turned around in the high chair while they were eating too. Jill and Derek didn't seem to know they could remove their butts from their own chairs....

Jill wants to have another child so that he knows the world doesn't "revolve around him"???  WTH?"

 

From my perspective, though, it's important to remember that not one of the Duggar kids has ever been loved. The only way they've ever gotten to have the world revolve around them is by making it revolve around them by themselves. Every single one of them, even the ones accounted "favorites," has been utterly unloved always, because they've only existed for the greater glory of their parents. Their models for life have been severely warped from the very beginning and are going to play out in ways that normal people will find horrifying.

So while it's easy to say, "Well, they've had kids now; so it's time for them to snap out of it and be good parents," I judge that, from my own experience, close to impossible to do. Their personalities, even their physical brains have been entirely formed by a lifetime of having none of the things that even puppies and baby monkeys are supposed to have to grow up in decent health and to GET PAST the infantile developmental stages and to actually turn into functional adults. They've each developed their own ways of coping with that, of trying to provide for themselves what they need -- and all of those ways are different, but they're all sad and warped. And all their different ways of coping will get seriously in the way of their being able to love partners and children and anybody else in the way that normal people expect.

Frankly, somebody who's had equivalently sick and twisted childhood and has gotten past it on their own to love in a normal fashion is about the only person from whom I think criticism of the Duggar's love styles is really warranted. But I've never met such a person, although I'm sure there are some out there. I had an equivalently warped childhood, although I also had many many more outlets and opportunities to learn things than they have, and despite my much greater advantages I'm every bit as warped as they are, despite living away from my family, therapy and decades of actual efforts to change.

So I'm afraid we're expecting way too much of Muffy. Or Jessa. Or Jinger. Or Josh. Or any of the rest of them. As far as I've been able to tell, you can only come a small way toward a recovery from being systematically destroyed from the moment of your birth onward. What happens to you in a situation like that primarily affects your relationships with others. And unfortunately, if you're unaware enough and fertile enough to produce a new generation, you pass on a lot of your warping to them, albeit in a somewhat different form, depending on what crazy coping strategy your particular child mind came up with.

Churchie, you may have had a similar childhood, but your posts reveal a person nothing like the Duggars. You show kindness, understanding, humor, and incredible intelligence.

We are all warped in our own ways, and certainly carry with us our histories, but most of us see ourselves in a much harsher light than others see us.

[bigskygirl]

In my opinion, no one is stopping the older kids from getting an education and having a normal live. They are the ones who are preventing it, and TLC should not be responsible for their lack of success in the real world. The older kids can get education and the skills needed in today's workforce. Yes, Michelle and JB, and in a round about way TLC, should take part of the blame, but not all of it. Do I feel bad for them, yes in a way I do, but if they are not happy especially Jill, then she needs to grow up and take some responsibility. In a way, Jill using her family like Linus from the Peanuts comic strip uses his security blanket. He falls apart when someone takes it away from him, and he goes through some major withdrawal and plots to get the blanket back. Jill is the same way when it comes to the Duggars, she cannot stand to be alone and clings to Derick like a tick on a hound dog on a hot sweaty summer day. Derick needs to take off his blinders because he is also shunting Jill's emotional growth just like JB has shunted Michelle's emotional growth. And the sad fact is there is a third generation of Duggars who will become narcissistic, narrow minded, clingy, and unable to deal with the real world because of the mistakes their parents and grandparents had and will keep making. Blaming the devil and evilness is all fine and dandy, but it will come back and bite you in the behind.

[Portia]

Late to the fresh fruit conversation. I seem to recall in one of the  early specials, a family  mealtime was shown and each person had an orange. I recall  thinking that  the  orange looked like the  healthiest part of the  meal because everything else looked starchy.

[louannems]

Also, on the very earliest specials, large fresh fruit platters were shown.  I always had the impression that the platters were provided courtesy of TLC, since they did seem out of place with the canned vegetables and cream of slop casseroles.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Cream of slop casseroles!  LOL

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, louannems said:

Also, on the very earliest specials, large fresh fruit platters were shown.  I always had the impression that the platters were provided courtesy of TLC, since they did seem out of place with the canned vegetables and cream of slop casseroles.

I was thinking the same. Those big fruit platters can get pricey, and the early specials were filmed before the gravy train rolled in to town. Every time I've seen a Duggar kid eat fruit, they act like it's a novelty, so I don't think fresh food is or was a regular part of their diet.

[Malvina]

[Missy Vixen]

20 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

is TLC reading this?

 

My opinion: TLC is reading this. They're not interested in any of the above. That would cost money, and they're into the cheapest production costs they can get away with. Any network that was actually interested in casting normal, functional people on reality TV shows would invest in pre-offer background checks and a visit to a psychologist for everyone involved. TLC has gotten burned four times in the past, what -- three years now? They don't learn because crazy makes big ratings TV. I'm sure Nancy and her minions are patting each other on the back whenever they get the latest report on what's being discussed here and on other websites. People are talking, so it must be great!!11!!!!

Jilly Muffin's comment re: having another baby so the Big White Baby will know the "world does not revolve around him"? I get Churchhoney's point. At the same time, I apologize to those I may offend by the following.

Fuck you, Jilly Muffin. Your son should be the center of your universe. If he isn't, do everyone involved a favor and don't have any more children. There are a hundred thousand other women who would give everything they have to make every day special for a son or daughter of their own.

14 minutes ago, Malvina said:

 

That's when you get out another apple and let your baby have a few more slices if he'd like.

IMHO of course.

[GeeGolly]

The sad thing is I doubt Izzy is pushing other kids out of the way to get on a swing or grabbing toys out of other kids' hands. Jill is probably basing her opinion on him wanting attention and to be played with and maybe whining for mommy while she is doing the dishes. All things a 17 month old should be doing. Children's worlds are themselves and whoever happens to be in the room with them. 

What they should not be doing is staying on a blanket with fear of being hit.   

Edited September 12, 2016 by GeeGolly

[NewDigs]

58 minutes ago, Malvina said:

That styro container in the trash looks like a filet-o-fish box. Apple core my ass.

Fruit has become astonishingly expensive. But no excuses for not offering children fruit. Some frozen fruits are actually more nutritious than fresh 'cuz they're picked at prime ripeness not weeks early for shipping. And they're cheaper.

No excuses, Duggars!

[Missy Vixen]

18 minutes ago, NewDigs said:

That styro container in the trash looks like a filet-o-fish box. Apple core my ass.

Fruit has become astonishingly expensive. But no excuses for not offering children fruit. Some frozen fruits are actually more nutritious than fresh 'cuz they're picked at prime ripeness not weeks early for shipping. And they're cheaper.

No excuses, Duggars!

 

She's getting paid to be on a TV show and she (and her husband) are grifting from that show's viewers for their "missions". She can afford another apple.

[GeeGolly]

Is a kid standing at the trash really a picture worthy moment? Even in the day & age of constant access to a phone/camera?

[louannems]

IIt's just so strange to post that photo, even to take that photo, and whine about an apple core?

[Defrauder]

I suppose Izzy knows that the world doesn't revolve around him when his own mother won't even share her apple and she takes a picture of him trying to get into the garbage to get the core.   Jill wanting to take the picture - is like screw you kid.  Michelle's daughter.   Jill probably had to check out the garbage as a kid and she's going to make sure Izzy learns it's all about Mom and Dad not about him.

[JoanArc]

Green Beans! Apples! Look, we're healthy! What a strange jag for Jill to off on when she'd fresh off the plane. Bitch, you posted smiling selfies of pickles, Papa Johns, and other assorted junk for a year in Central America. You eat the SAD. Deal.With.It.

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎9‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 6:54 PM, NewDigs said:

I think Jill needs professional help. With a therapist.

She seems to always look at loose ends and disconnected. PPD?

Dunno. I'm not a professional and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. But her eyes... Sad.

I agree.  Plus whatever buried emotions she was forced to deal with regarding Josh.  She couldn't keep it together in the interview she did with Jessa.  That's enough to set some people off without potential PPD.

[Missy Vixen]

27 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Green Beans! Apples! Look, we're healthy! What a strange jag for Jill to off on when she'd fresh off the plane. Bitch, you posted smiling selfies of pickles, Papa Johns, and other assorted junk for a year in Central America. You eat the SAD. Deal.With.It.

 

She's PG. Seriously. She's going to show everyone how healthily they eat these days. Allegedly.

41 minutes ago, Defrauder said:

 Jill wanting to take the picture - is like screw you kid.  Michelle's daughter.   Jill probably had to check out the garbage as a kid and she's going to make sure Izzy learns it's all about Mom and Dad not about him.

 

One has to wonder if Jilly Muffin remembers her mother making that exact comment about Precious Miracle Josie on-camera before: "She needs to learn that the world does not revolve around her."

J-Chelle must be SO proud.

[JoanArc]

Quote

J-Chelle must be SO proud.

Of course. It must be weird being  a narcissist, but subservient to your parents (or cult leader) at the same time.

[Arwen Evenstar]

5 hours ago, Missy Vixen said:

 

Jilly Muffin's comment re: having another baby so the Big White Baby will know the "world does not revolve around him"? I get Churchhoney's point. At the same time, I apologize to those I may offend by the following.

Fuck you, Jilly Muffin. Your son should be the center of your universe. If he isn't, do everyone involved a favor and don't have any more children. There are a hundred thousand other women who would give everything they have to make every day special for a son or daughter of their own.

That's when you get out another apple and let your baby have a few more slices if he'd like.

IMHO of course.

Or if there was only ONE Apple, you'd let your baby have it if he/she wanted it. It's called being a mom, Muffy! 

Children should be allowed to have all the fresh fruit they want!

[GeeGolly]

"When your 17 month old thinks that throwing away an apple core is mommy choosing not to share the last few bites. #upsetbaby #hewantedthecore"

 

Well okay then, have another baby so Izzy will know he is not the only one you won't share with. #cluelessmommy #noshirtoffback

Edited September 13, 2016 by GeeGolly
to add #s

[queenanne]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Is a kid standing at the trash really a picture worthy moment? Even in the day & age of constant access to a phone/camera?

I dunno, it does double duty as the stated mission and also shows mutely and sweetly how tall he is.  Probably an unintentional compositional burst of luck but I like it.  Or I would, if I wasn't afraid he was going to run his head into the edge of the disposal cabinet.

[Churchhoney]

15 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Is a kid standing at the trash really a picture worthy moment? Even in the day & age of constant access to a phone/camera?

 

In the day and age of constant access to a phone/camera, everything has become a picture-worthy moment, hasn't it? And now with instagram and so on, all those pictures have also become caption-requiring moments. That leads to a ton of daily stupidity not just from Jill and other Duggars but from pretty much everyone, seems to me. I know I'd inadvertently say a lot of things people would take exception to if I somehow felt compelled to send out the bazillions of nothing photographs and commentary that's now spewing continually from phones around the globe.

In fact, if I were one of the photo&caption spewers, I can easily imagine writing a caption exactly like the one Jill did here. I would have said to Izzy -- "Honey, everything there was to eat on that apple was already gone. That was just the core." And then I would have said something like "Let's go over to the counter and we'll get you another apple (or a banana, or something if all the apples are gone)." 

And how the hell do we know that she didn't do just exactly that? How the hell do we know that, because she accurately described the kids' response, she didn't follow up the incident by giving him some food -- not the apple core, which wasn't edible in any case. But being 17 months old, he thought it was.

Frankly, I have no idea how everybody jumped from what she wrote to concluding that she doesn't feed the child or that she hogs food that she should be giving to him or that she deprives him of fruit. Have you seen this kid? He's gigantic. Strong. Tall. Looks pretty clear to me that she feeds him plenty.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Arwen Evenstar]

3 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

 

In the day and age of constant access to a phone/camera, everything has become a picture-worthy moment, hasn't it? And now with instagram and so on, all those pictures have also become caption-requiring moments. That leads to a ton of daily stupidity not just from Jill and other Duggars but from pretty much everyone, seems to me. I know I'd inadvertently say a lot of things people would take exception to if I somehow felt compelled to send out the bazillions of nothing photographs and commentary that's now spewing continually from phones around the globe.

No doubt, something to offend damn near anyone, when one broadcasts to the world. You could take the most innocuous image and be ripped a new one by anybody. At one time, a private life was just that, private.

Jilly Muffin was at times unfairly eviscerated on SM for no good reason, and other times, rightly so. Dirty Giant White Baby in Undersized Unstable Bumbo, plus the one I called "The Screaming Grub" (too tightly swaddled and uncomfortable Izzy crying) made this childless woman's ovaries hurt for weeks. All new mommies have likely done dumb things, they just know better not yo post anything other than Clean, Happy Baby; nor are they so completely narcissistic that they find it necessary to tweet, post, snapchat EVERY bloody time they eat, shit, or go to Starbucks. 

[Defrauder]

By the time Jill was 5 years old she had 6 siblings so she was never the center of her parents world.  She probably views only children and children with just a couple of siblings as spoiled.  She has no clue.

[Arwen Evenstar]

14 minutes ago, Defrauder said:

By the time Jill was 5 years old she had 6 siblings so she was never the center of her parents world.  She probably views only children and children with just a couple of siblings as spoiled.  She has no clue.

Just found it so disturbing she wants another kid "so Izzy can learn that the world doesn't revolve around him". Someone pointed out that Michelle had said that about Josie on the show. I remember that as well, though at the time, Josie was acting bratty. Precious Miwacle Snowflake got more "mommy time" than any of the kids got, except maybe the elders when the family was manageable (until mommy and resources had to be split). 

Just like Muffy is annoyed at Izzy constantly clamoring for attention, it seems that Michelle got annoyed with Josie. A child with delicate health, who has been assumed by most people who've ever watched the show, to have special needs and/or developmental or cognitive delays, is by default going to NEED extra attention, not be cast by the wayside once her mother is done weaning her. The Duggar Family is simply deplorable in neglecting a sick child and the Littles like they do.

[MichaelaRae]

Yeah, I have a lot of concerns about Jill as a mother, but that photo isn't one of them. It struck me as the kind of thing many of my friends who are mothers of little ones have posted showing the amusing logic of toddlers. He can still see the apple core, therefore there must still be some food on it. (Which makes sense in toddler world - most of the food they eat is gone when it disappears - Cheerios, food on a plate, etc.)

Think "Reasons My Son Is Crying" or this: http://www.sunnyskyz.com/blog/119/36-Reasons-My-Kid-Is-Crying-Temper-Tantrums-You-Can-t-Help-But-Laugh-At 

Edited September 13, 2016 by MichaelaRae

[Churchhoney]

39 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Just found it so disturbing she wants another kid "so Izzy can learn that the world doesn't revolve around him".

She constantly heard that in the WOMB, most likely, and certainly throughout her infancy and childhood. And, like all the Duggars, she's not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree, nor has she had the slightest encouragement from anywhere to be a reflective person or question any word that her hideous parents have ever said. Even very bright and thoughtful people have crap like that buried in their brains, if that's the crap they've been repeatedly told -- and in some cases, like this one, had beaten into them -- as babies and children. And bright and thoughtful people express it, too, sometimes, not just dull parrots like the Duggars.

Once I was in some casual-dining restaurant with one of the sweet and downtrodden members of my family, a mom who was a very good mom, who in fact made efforts to be the best mom she could be -- and was -- considering the hideous way she had been treated and was still being treated, and some work colleagues of hers. A baby started crying on the other side of the room, and I could see my near relation's face getting tight. After about 30 seconds of the crying, she literally screamed in a strangled furious voice, "I'd KILL that kid!" I'll never forget the frozen shock on our tablemates and everybody around us. The people who knew her clearly never imagined that she could say or even think such a thing and they had no idea what was going on with her. Everybody else clearly thought she was insane. She didn't say anything else, and luckily nobody tried to throw us out of the joint, or I would probably have clocked them with the nearest heavy object for increasing the poor thing's agony.

She got triggered and was beside herself. That was how she'd been treated. and it was down in her brain and, I would wager, could never be removed, although it could be buried further. She was, like everybody else in my family, Danger: UXB!    But the overwhelming majority of the time, and especially outside the house, nobody had any idea. And those who did get the idea, I will tell you, really could not understand. Unless they came from a very similar background. I know because I've spent my whole life trying to explain this to people, and everybody still comes back with -- But everyone can change! .... Not so fucking easy. And, in my opinion, quite often literally impossible.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Absolom]

As I learned again this weekend, even if people change/veneer over things, as you get older it can come back out again especially if it was only veneered over.

Some change is possible for some people.  Not everything undesirable about a person can be changed for all people.  

One of the major life lessons I have learned.  There are three kinds of people in the world.

Those who never learn. (I would put Jim Bob in that category. Jill seems currently there.)  Those who learn from their mistakes.  (Gil Bates)  And those who learn from other peoples' mistakes.  (Most likely Church Honey, I know I do, and it seems probably quite a few posters here.) 

It's frequently difficult for people to understand people who are in the other categories.  After all doesn't everyone else think just like I do? 

Another way to describe it is type 1:  rabbit stuck in a box.  Type 2:  rabbit who stands up and looks out of the box.  Type 3:  rabbit who realizes it's a box and jumps out.  

[Arwen Evenstar]

19 Rabbits Stuck in a Box and Counting

[Marigold]

I agree Absolom.

Arwen, that's a hysterical image!  

[Churchhoney]

21 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

19 Rabbits Stuck in a Box and Counting

Love this.

I have to add something, though. (surprise! surprise!) I get a lot of credit around here because I was able to jump some way out of my box due to certain traits I have. But in fact it's not in any way to my credit that I jumped. Because I have those traits. I was born with them. They were in my genes.

The people in my family who were not able to jump simply did not have my advantages. They have every bit as much good will -- more, in some cases -- and positive intentions as I do, but they didn't have the rebel genes, the insanely critical thought genes and so on that I did. In addition, they didn't have the identical experiences that opened little doors for me.

The Duggar kids don't have my traits or my lucky experiences either.

I'm not so stuck in the box because of facets of who I am that I have never had any control over. I have those facets by sheer luck. Not to my credit that I'm a lucky Type 3 rabbit. Not at all. And my experience tells me absolutely that at least for the most part it's not the fault of my family members -- or Duggars -- that they're the very unlucky Type 1 rabbits.

I know we humans all think we're spending our days shaping our own destinies. But to me it seems pretty clear that we're capable of much less destiny-shaping than we imagine. But because it's nearly impossible for us to really see things from somebody else's perspective -- as Absolom notes -- that's very difficult for us to realize.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Churchhoney