Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[mythoughtis]

10 hours ago, Triple P said:

I just read an excerpt from the book, and apparently Josh was sitting just off camera during the entire Megyn Kelly interview, which served to increase the trauma for Jill. Her breakdown during the interview, while completely understandable before, is unequivocally understandable with that knowledge.

Yet another way Jill and Jessa were being manipulated and pressured into giving JBs version of events rather than their own.  
It’s also another group of people that catered to JB’s  wishes.  Megan Kelly failed at her job.  No way Josh should have been present in the room for that.  He wasn’t even interviewed.  
 

As to the contract - JB knew exactly what he was doing.  The week  or day of the wedding is not the time to sign legal contracts.  Especially without sitting Jill down and going over every line of that contract with her.  Derick too- because this affected him.  He was going to be filmed for the next five years too.  Neither of them knew anything about these types of contracts 

Edited September 12, 2023 by mythoughtis

[quarks]

30 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

 No way Josh should have been present in the room for that.  He wasn’t even interviewed.  

My guess is that Josh was there in the hopes of being allowed to "tell his side of the story" - it's even possible that Megyn Kelly did interview him (either before or after the Jill/Jessa interview) but that some Fox producer/executive had the common sense to realize that airing that interview would be a really bad idea.

Which doesn't justify having Josh in the same room during the Jill/Jessa interview. And just - even leaving aside the massive ethical/journalistic failures there (not that we should), did Megyn Kelly just.....not realize that she could have gotten a much better interview from both Jill and Jessa if Josh had simply been asked to wait in another room?

[Zella]

11 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

Someone said she described the traumatic Sam birth in the book. I am curious what happened.

 

On reddit I read some thing from the book and it really looks like she told a lot 

Per the recaps I've seen on Reddit, her uterus ruptured and she nearly bled to death. Sam was also born with a brain bleed. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Zella

[Guest]

3 hours ago, DeeReynolds said:

Some highlights from People

https://people.com/jill-duggar-dillard-memoir-counting-the-cost-biggest-bombshells-7968156

This part annoys me a little - 

Quote

She also claims once she made it clear a camera crew couldn't tag along, production allegedly told her they would not help pay for it either.

I'm highly sympathetic to Jill, but you tell them they can't film your honeymoon (which really was the right decision, I think) but then mention they won't pay for it if they can't film it? Why would they pay for it?

[Turquoise]

10 minutes ago, deaja said:

This part annoys me a little - 

I'm highly sympathetic to Jill, but you tell them they can't film your honeymoon (which really was the right decision, I think) but then mention they won't pay for it if they can't film it? Why would they pay for it?

The phrasing is weird, but I thought what Jill was trying to say was production thought if they held a paid-for honeymoon over their heads they would cave and allow filming. It didn't work.

I know there had been speculation for some time why Jill had a more modest honeymoon than her siblings. This would be why.

[GeeGolly]

I'm finding the excerpts very interesting so far. But... lying Derick is never far from my mind and of course even for Jill (and everyone) time, ego and in this case money, can skew memories. I going to believe the gist of everything is true but maybe infused with some slants.

In other words... If this was asshole JB writing a tell-all about sweet-but-Duggar Jill I would feel the book would be filled with lies. But just because sweet-but-Duggar Jill is writing about asshole JB doesn't mean I'm going to take everything as 100% accurate.

[Panopticon]

Me: I am not going to buy this book, even if there is a waiting list of 6 months and almost 150 people at my local library (which generally buys extra copies if the list gets that long).

Also Me: But I bet it hurts Jim Bob's feelings every time someone buys a copy. I bet he thinks he won't allow it!

Still Me: ::hands over credit card::

[Heathen]

On 9/10/2023 at 4:38 PM, AstridM said:

I’m 259th in line for the book from my library. There seems to be quite a bit of interest. I had zero interest in reading Jinger’s PR piece for McArthur. 

I'm first in line at my library. I guess there are not many interested in it here. I'm waiting for it to come in. 

[Madtown]

Reading snippets of the book people are posting on Reddit, I can't blame Derick one bit for going after JB for money they were owed. I'm not sure if some of the stuff I'm reading was ever mentioned here, I can't recall that it was, but I would've went after JB with everything I had after reading these snippits. I can totally see why he went to law school.

I'm going to have to get this book.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Turquoise said:

The phrasing is weird, but I thought what Jill was trying to say was production thought if they held a paid-for honeymoon over their heads they would cave and allow filming. It didn't work.

I know there had been speculation for some time why Jill had a more modest honeymoon than her siblings. This would be why.

That makes sense. I'll see how it is portrayed in the book - I had an audible credit to burn before I could cancel! 

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm finding the excerpts very interesting so far. But... lying Derick is never far from my mind and of course even for Jill (and everyone) time, ego and in this case money, can skew memories. I going to believe the gist of everything is true but maybe infused with some slants.

In other words... If this was asshole JB writing a tell-all about sweet-but-Duggar Jill I would feel the book would be filled with lies. But just because sweet-but-Duggar Jill is writing about asshole JB doesn't mean I'm going to take everything as 100% accurate.

Yeah, I believe broad strokes of what is said but as she's going on about what a people pleaser she's always been, a small part of me wonders if some of this is her being a people pleaser - she gets a ton of positive attention for "breaking free."  I don't know. This type of thing is a process. I hope she eventually (if she hasn't already) finds her true self instead of going from trying to please her family to trying to please people in general.

[Panopticon]

Perhaps the saddest part of the book is the passage about little Jilly Muffin running around with her nurse playset asking her siblings in turn if they felt sick and whether she could help. Maybe if Jill had had access to a proper education, she still would have chosen to marry young and stay home with her babies. And that's a totally valid choice, of course. But it seems like she had a genuine calling to the medical field, too, and she never had a real chance to see how far she might have gone with it.

Super creepy passage about how Jana was the only J'Slave invited to be one of Gothard's Girls because she was the blonde. I know that's nothing we didn't already know, but it lands with an even more sickening thud coming from Jill.

Speaking of Jana, there's a passing mention of young Jill trying to out-good her siblings while either set of twins was "wrestling for the best position on the couch." Jana and JD were allowed to wrestle each other pre-Josh scandal? That's... also incredibly sad, considering what was taken away from the various subsets of siblings post-Josh.

Ugh to Jim Bob explicitly sending nasty messages to Jill through her siblings. Also something we already knew; also lands really hard coming from Jill. I wonder which sib was the one who snuck out and snitched that "Pops is telling everyone that if we don't stand against you, then we're standing against him."

I would love to know what happened between Jim Bob and Michelle before Michelle left the infamous contract at Jill's door in the middle of the night.

Quote

He read online that Derick had been seen drinking a beer. Pops had made contact soon after and offered to send Derick to the same rehab facility Josh had been to, in the hope of curing Derick's clearly raging alcoholism.

Ha! Jill (or her ghost writer) better be careful with that snark, or else she'll end up hanging out here with us.

Seriously, though, Jill/the ghost writer did a great job making Jill's love for her parents palpable even while she skewered them. And while she was explicit about adoring her buddies and taking pride in building the TTH, she was equally clear about being devastated that Jim Bob didn't choose to protect her over the show.

[BetyBee]

I just finished reading Jill's book. I finished in about 4-5 hours and really enjoyed it. I've always had a soft spot for Jill. I've been a people pleaser too. I think it's a well written, honest and open telling of Jill's unusual life. She loves her parents, especially her Mom. I think the most surprising thing in the book was that Michelle showed up late at night and delivered the contract from Mad Productions that Jill and Derick had asked for many times through their attorney. JB turned a deaf ear to their request and I'm left to wonder if Michelle decided on her own to deliver it and did so impulsively and against JB's wishes. That made me have a bit more respect for Michelle. 

[lascuba]

Quote

To those who have been harmed in the name of “religion.”

There is no fallacy more infuriating to me than the "No true Scotsman" fallacy. It's a religion Jill. It's the same exact religion you believe in minus a few minutiae.

[JennyMominFL]

So, let me get this right, Jill found out Jim Bob claimed, on her taxes , that Jill received money that she never got. Jill confronted him about it. Jim Bob then sent Jill an itemized bill for her "expenses". He than said she was going to inherit 1/19th of his inheritance one day but than he said something like, "if you cause trouble that amount will change.

1/19th

So I guess Josh's trouble is not as bad as Jill's

Edited September 12, 2023 by JennyMominFL

[Minivanessa]

I've just finished reading the book. I have a lot of thoughts and will likely share them here over the next few days.

I agree with @Panopticon and @BetyBee - I think it's well written and manages to tell the story of Jill's life with grace. 

Random list of some things I learned:

I always thought that Derick didn't get hired by the International Missions Board because Jill couldn't cut the mustard for spousal education. Nope. I was wrong. Jill relates that while they had accepted SOS Ministries' offer to work for them in El Salvador, they had also been going through the IMB application process. The IMB was interested but needed to have clear documentation that if they sent the Dillards out into the field, they would be free of any obligations to TLC or the production company. So their work wouldn't be interrupted by show filming like their SOS work had been. The failure of JB and his guy Chad to cooperate and provide contract documents and clear information, ultimately killed their opportunity with IMB.

We may laugh about the falling towel rack incident, but El Salvador was plagued by gang-related violence.

I ran a search of the Kindle book. The word "cousin" does not appear. Neither does "Amy." Her Aunt Deanna was mentioned as one of those who pitched in and helped after Samuel's birth.

Sam's birth: wow. She suffered a large uterine rupture and lost about half her blood volume. Samuel had been unresponsive at birth and had swallowed some mecomium. He'd been rushed to a NICU in a different hospital than the one where the birth had taken place. A scan showed evidence of a brain bleed. They had no idea, when they took him home, if he would have developmental delays or other issues from the brain bleed. He was on oxygen for awhile after coming home. Fortunately, the first follow up scan (IIRC he was six months old), prompted the neurologist who read it to call them and say, it's pretty miraculous but there is absolutely no indication of a problem. 

She didn't complain about her honeymoon. Au contraire, she noped out of a TLC-paid honeymoon in favor of a low-key self-funded five day trip to the beach in North Carolina. She thought the show had done a bad edit on the footage from Josh and Anna's honeymoon, which TLC had funded and filmed, making them unfairly look like rubes from the country or something. Jill said:

Quote

I was always clear our honeymoon would not be on the show. It was private and it was precious, and it was absolutely not something that I was willing to sell for an all-expenses-paid honeymoon vacation.

     ---Duggar, Jill. Counting the Cost (p. 91). Gallery Books. Kindle Edition. 

In 2018, Jill received a letter from the IRS. That led them to discover that over the years, JB's CPA had been filing returns/reports with the IRS stating that Jill had been paid money - when she hadn't. To the tune of $130,000. 

There's lots about JB's financial shenanigans. Here's a bottom line calculation from when they finally got some meaningful contract documents and info:

Quote

We did the numbers. Over the years there had been well over three hundred shows, for which we estimated that TLC had paid Mad Family Inc. over $8,000,000 total. Our wedding alone had netted well over $100,000 for Pops, and Israel’s birth had been the focus of two special episodes, earning Pops another six-figure sum. Yet when we’d asked him to cover our $10,000 deductible and out-of-pocket expenses from the hospital stay [for Israel's birth], he’d pushed back.

       --Duggar, Jill. Counting the Cost (p. 226). Gallery Books. Kindle Edition. 

I had not realized, back in the day, that Derick's mother was in such a tenuous medical condition just before the wedding. Apparently it was doubtful whether she could even go. She'd been rushed to the hospital and had remained there, I think it was a bad reaction to chemotherapy, but whatever it was, it was seriously bad. I know, I'm not a fan of hers, but at that point it was not unlikely that she might not survive at all, much less attend the wedding. Wow. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Jeeves

[satrunrose]

Oh, so all Derrick's complaints about medical bills were about JB not TLC. That makes sense.

[quickjessie]

On 9/11/2023 at 7:07 AM, GeeGolly said:

Prince Harry's book (which I didn't read) seemed less about setting the record straight, but more about him being the innocent victim/hero. Harry, much like Derick were neither innocent victims nor heroes. They may have had legitimate grievances, navigated through shitty circumstances and dealt with assholes who held more power than any person should, but airing dirty laundry in the way Harry did in his book and Derick has done on SM is a tad immature, IMO. 

I must object to your description of Prince Harry.  I DID read the book and you should too, especially if you want to comment on the guy.  Harry's book was about his life, in his words, up to that moment in time.  He was a kid who, as a man, realizes he needed therapy to deal with his mother's death and didn't get it.  He freely admits he made many wrong choices while trying to pretend his mother never died.  I have more empathy for a kid, and yes, he was a kid when he was traumatized, than it seems many people wish to give this man.  A loving parent dead, and ice-cold family...still...who gave the child in their family no support whatsoever.  In anything.  As a middle child myself who definitely was raised with the "middle child syndrome", I can't imagine how your life goes when you're considered a "spare" from day one.  He didn't air dirty laundry, he wrote about himself.  If some came off looking shitty because of that, maybe it's because they are shitty people.

[Minivanessa]

30 minutes ago, satrunrose said:

Oh, so all Derrick's complaints about medical bills were about JB not TLC. That makes sense.

I think that's where it ended up. IIRC, maybe from Shiny Happy People, that for some time after they married, Jill and Derick were under the impression that their appearances on the show were voluntary, part of the family ministry. Jill had objected to her labor/delivery being filmed for the show, not wanting her own version of Anna's infamous toilet birth out there anywhere. They got pushback from the producer, and finally negotiated that Jana and I think Meech would have videocams for the labor/delivery but no TLC crew would be there.

During all of that, especially after the complications leading to the C-section delivery of Israel, Jill and Derick began to question what their obligations were and why, to the show. I think Derick asked TLC about compensation for their out of pocket costs for the birth, which had been featured bigtime on the show. That's when TLC told him, "We've paid for that. You need to talk to Jim Bob about it."  I think that's when they learned that JB was raking in money and started to question what the heck was really going on. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Jeeves
Spelling.

[Kiss my mutt]

The news about the uterine rupture was scary. If she had a hole that big, wouldn’t it be hard to carry again? 
I didn’t read Jinger’s fluff piece but this sounds pretty interesting. I’m on the fence especially since thing are discussed so we’ll here, though I’d like for her book to make more than Jingers. 

[Salacious Kitty]

I remember reports of Duggars crying at the hospital after Sam's birth. Now I know why. I'm surprised Jill was able to have another. Hopefully, her last.

[Absolom]

Before Jill delivered Sam we did discuss the risk of uterine rupture with trying a VBAC and didn't Jill start out at home?  I can't remember how long she labored before going to the hospital.  I'm not blaming Jill, but her abysmal midwife training and family pressure.

[Salacious Kitty]

5 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Before Jill delivered Sam we did discuss the risk of uterine rupture with trying a VBAC and didn't Jill start out at home?  I can't remember how long she labored before going to the hospital.  I'm not blaming Jill, but her abysmal midwife training and family pressure.

I thought Jill knew she had to go to the hospital. Lay midwives in AR can't oversee VBACs. 

[Guest]

Keep the thread on the topic of Jill and Derick; unless you are comparing this book to another book about the subject of the Duggar family (such as Jinger’s book or similar), your post is off topic and will be removed.

[Absolom]

10 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I thought Jill knew she had to go to the hospital. Lay midwives in AR can't oversee VBACs. 

We knew that and what a risk it was and the person who was allegedly helping her denied being there.  

[Salacious Kitty]

6 minutes ago, Absolom said:

We knew that and what a risk it was and the person who was allegedly helping her denied being there.  

So she labored at home for the majority of her trial? My god, how stupid! 

[Absolom]

15 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

So she labored at home for the majority of her trial? My god, how stupid! 

Exactly.  She labored at home for at least 40 hours from articles still available.  I think at first Derick said it was even longer than that.

[Salacious Kitty]

6 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Exactly.  She labored at home for at least 40 hours from articles still available.  I think at first Derick said it was even longer than that.

I remember her laboring at home that long with Izzy. I had no memory of her doing the same attempting a VBAC. smh

Edited September 13, 2023 by Salacious Kitty

[lascuba]

1 hour ago, satrunrose said:

Oh, so all Derrick's complaints about medical bills were about JB not TLC. That makes sense.

It makes me wonder about his social media ranting about TLC. Was that general lashing out because he couldn't criticize JB publicly or did he hold TLC equally responsible? I don't expect the book covers any of of their own bad behavior?

19 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

So she labored at home for the majority of her trial? My god, how stupid! 

Very, and from what I've read not uncommon among the lay midwives and the homebirth set. It doesn't matter what they're legally allowed to do...a lot people are desperate for to give birth at home and their are plenty of unscrupulous "midwives" happy to cash those checks. 

[GeeGolly]

This was the Dillard announcement for Sam.

“We are excited to finally announce the arrival of Samuel Scott Dillard,” the family said. “The newest addition to our family arrived on Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 1:02pm. He weighs 9lb 10oz and is 22” long. After 40 hours of labor, he was delivered via C-section at the hospital. Jul 10, 2017

[ChicksDigScars]

I didn't think I'd order the book, but now knowing how hard JB is working to deflect and distract, from marching one of the Duggar boys (Jason, I believe) out on Sunday to speechify at the pulpit about forgiveness, to making sure that obedient little robot Jessa held in until yesterday, the "news" that she's knocked up again. Fuck off, Jim Bob. Not only am I willing to help Jill out by buying this book, knowing that you must be absolutely seething as you watch it climb up the best seller list, makes me want to buy it even more. I hope she makes a ton of cash off this, and you fucking suffer. Piece of shit. 

And Derick may have stuck his foot in his mouth on more than one occasion, but he seems to have grown up a little bit. And he seems to be wiling to go to the mat for his wife. I can't think badly of him for all that. Plus, anyone willing to question JB's authority and stand up to that skeevy prick...high five, Dillard. 

I think I now know someone that I possibly detest more than Kody Brown....well, maybe not. He and JB are tied. 

[GeeGolly]

2 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

I think I now know someone that I possibly detest more than Kody Brown....well, maybe not. He and JB are tied. 

Oh goodness, they are both vile, aren't they?! I think it depends on the moment and the circumstances where they edge each other out. I'll give JB one point in the plus column though - I don't think JB intended to be an asshole but turned into one. I think Kody was an asshole from the get go.

[MsJamieDornan]

2 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Fuck off, Jim Bob. Not only am I willing to help Jill out by buying this book, knowing that you must be absolutely seething as you watch it climb up the best seller list, makes me want to buy it even more. I hope she makes a ton of cash off this, and you fucking suffer. Piece of shit. 

Yes ! I might buy more than one copy,,,and hope that ugly, gross, piece of shit Jboob's head explodes when its at the top of the best seller list.

 

2 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Derick may have stuck his foot in his mouth on more than one occasion, but he seems to have grown up a little bit. And he seems to be wiling to go to the mat for his wife. I can't think badly of him for all that. Plus, anyone willing to question JB's authority and stand up to that skeevy prick...high five, Dillard. 

👍 Very well said.

[Absolom]

11 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I remember her laboring at home that long with Izzy. I had no memory of her doing the same attempting a VBAC. smh

She labored way longer than 40 hours at home with Israel if their posts and the story told in the show are to be believed.  She "labored" through going out with Derick to get pedicures!  

This was based on Derick's second version of Sam's birth where he had shortened the labor at home time.

https://cafemom.com/entertainment/209947-jill-duggar-son-sam-birth/211664-whatever_happened_when_sam_made

11 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

This was the Dillard announcement for Sam.

“We are excited to finally announce the arrival of Samuel Scott Dillard,” the family said. “The newest addition to our family arrived on Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 1:02pm. He weighs 9lb 10oz and is 22” long. After 40 hours of labor, he was delivered via C-section at the hospital. Jul 10, 2017

That was Derick's second version.  He deleted the more accurate first version that alluded to some issues.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Absolom

[BetyBee]

I believe they decided to keep Sam's health private until they knew what they were dealing with. Fortunately his brain bleed corrected and he is developing normally. 

Didn't Jill also have her gall bladder out after delivering Sam? I don't think that made it into the book. Maybe they decided to be more circumspect about Jill's health too? Or they just decided it wasn't relevant to the story they were telling? 

[dariafan]

The show became Jill and Jessa counting on.   Why was Jim boob getting the money for it ?  I mean I know why , but why didn’t tlc ask some questions ???

[ChicksDigScars]

9 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Oh goodness, they are both vile, aren't they?! I think it depends on the moment and the circumstances where they edge each other out. I'll give JB one point in the plus column though - I don't think JB intended to be an asshole but turned into one. I think Kody was an asshole from the get go.

Jesus. They both suck so much. Both treat their children like pawns to serve the headship, Kodouche giving zero fucks when his teenage daughter had SPINAL SURGERY, and being a horn dog and courting potential Wifey 4 while Wifey 3 was in the hospital, giving birth to his child, to JimBlob's abusive and neglectful behavior toward his daughters,  siding, supporting and enabling the son that molested them, and bogarting all the cash that his kids earned by having their childhood's filmed and broadcast to the masses. Hell, at least Kate Gosselin, as vile as she is, had trusts set up for her kids, and they are getting first class educations (if they choose) because of it. Jim Blob...NOTHING. Education? Oh, hell no! Trust funds? Nope. You'll get our money when we die, kids. Fuck him sideways with a plugged in curling iron (sorry for the visual). Kodouche is certainly not funding any college educations. Those kids are on their own with government grants and loans if they want to attend college. Except Day-unn. Kodouche MAY be paying for Sobbyn's golden children. 

Those two "men" have to be pretty shitty excuses for human beings to make Kate and Jon look like shiny examples. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, dariafan said:

The show became Jill and Jessa counting on.   Why was Jim boob getting the money for it ?  I mean I know why , but why didn’t tlc ask some questions ???

I don't think TLC could care less. I think they only changed the name so they could keep their ratings from the Duggars while appearing to distance themselves from the problematic parents - Jessa and Jill were pretty sympathetic in the public eye in the immediate aftermath of the Fox interview. 

Jim Bob is definitely the bad guy here, but the producers at TLC are pretty villainous themselves, I think.  

[Absolom]

TLC just changed the name of the show not the underlying contract.  Rather duplicitous, no?

[ginger90]

7 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

Didn't Jill also have her gall bladder out after delivering Sam?

No, it was a few weeks after Frederick “Freddy” was born. 

[BetyBee]

Just now, ginger90 said:

No, it was a few weeks after Frederick “Freddy” was born. 

Oh duh! I got my Dillard kids mixed up. But it still didn't make it into the book, unless I'm remembering that wrong too!

[Minivanessa]

A couple of incidents have stuck in my mind after reading Jill's book yesterday. They indicate to me that although she was a people pleaser, and thoroughly indoctrinated by her parents with the IBLP authoritarian "instant obedience" mindset, Jill's got some strength of character at her core. And IMO that strength served her well.

The first thing was that trip to Nepal where she met Derick in person after phone calls etc. (all duly monitored by at least one of her parents, of course). The backstory she told is that JB tried to get her interested in Derick for awhile but she kept blowing it off, had too much to do at home, was studying midwifery, etc. She sat in on some calls between Derick and JB (JB put his phone on speaker) but it took JB finally handing her his phone with Derick on the other end, and leaving it to them to talk. There was a spark there and soon Jill and Derick were talking and she really liked him. TLC arranged a trip to Nepal for JB and Jill, of course to shoot show footage. Jill and Derick understood that if they met and decided not to pursue a courtship, that footage would be on the show anyway. (Cringey, but this was their only real chance to meet in person until his time in Nepal would be over.)

The plan was for JB, Jill, and the TLC crew to spend two weeks there. But then the producer said, oops, we can't spend two weeks there after all, we only have five days. Jill put her foot down.

Quote

“Excuse me?” I said. “You go for five days if you want, but if I’m going to decide whether this guy is someone I want to spend the rest of my life with, I need two weeks. I’ll do whatever you want. We can film a pretend goodbye scene and I’ll turn on the tears for you, but I’m not doing this in five days. I just can’t.”

That time, I won. . . .

I was so thankful for that extra week we got to spend together without the film crew. We were able to get to know each other better, and over the days there were little snatched moments when Pops gave us space and our feelings grew.

      -- Duggar, Jill. Counting the Cost (pp. 77-79). Gallery Books. Kindle Edition. 

The other incident, is one I mentioned upthread. Jill would not accept a TLC-funded, and TLC-filmed, honeymoon. She said that was precious, and private, and she wasn't going to sell it out for an expenses-paid trip for the show. They paid for their own five days at the beach and she didn't regret it.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Jeeves

[GeeGolly]

So if TLC left Nepal early, was the scene when Derick asked Jill to be in a courtship fake? Or did they know within the first 5 days and the scene was real?

[quarks]

13 minutes ago, dariafan said:

The show became Jill and Jessa counting on.   Why was Jim boob getting the money for it ?  I mean I know why , but why didn’t tlc ask some questions ???

For a number of reasons, Hollywood studios usually don't negotiate directly with talent, but through agency/management companies.

What went very wrong here, among other things, is that Jim Bob and Michelle seem to have decided to act as their own agency/management/production company, giving us great examples of just why none of this is a good idea.

TLC may very well have had questions, but....in general it's considered mildly to extremely unethical for a studio to tell talent "Hey, we have some qualms about your manager/agency." So TLC could use that practice to just, not ask questions. 

[Zella]

38 minutes ago, dariafan said:

 I mean I know why , but why didn’t tlc ask some questions ???

I've long thought TLC was a quiet villain in all this that doesn't get enough criticism. I think they've made it clear time and again that they really don't care as long as they were getting what they wanted. They didn't ask questions because they didn't care about the answers. 

 

[GeeGolly]

So it seems the one courtship JB pushed was the one that bit him in the butt. That feels very satisfying.

[Minivanessa]

25 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

So if TLC left Nepal early, was the scene when Derick asked Jill to be in a courtship fake? Or did they know within the first 5 days and the scene was real?

It was real. Jill wrote:

Quote

Just before we faked our goodbyes for the show, Derick asked me on-camera if I would be willing to start an official courtship. My yes was 100 percent straight from the heart.

   -- Duggar, Jill. Counting the Cost (p. 78). Gallery Books. Kindle Edition. 

So the courtship acceptance was genuine, and they just performed a goodbye scene for the cameras after that.

Based on what she wrote, I don't think she would have faked accepting a courtship. In setting up the trip, she and Derick had both agreed that if their meeting didn't result in a courtship, that would be made known in the episode, as awkward as that would have been.  I suppose if they hadn't clicked, Derick wouldn't have asked her to court for the cameras. And in that case, whatever their goodbye scene looked like would have been consistent with the "nice try, but this didn't work out" situation. 

ETA: I left this bit out in my post above because it was getting long. But I gotta share. During that week in Nepal after the film crew left, she mentioned moments when JB gave them space "and our feelings grew."  Here's what I want to share. So much for the courtship rules when the headship falls asleep on his bed, LOL:

Quote

Like the evening when Pops was chaperoning us in the room that he and I were sharing, but he ended up falling asleep. Derick and I sat on the end of the bed eating hot chicken fried rice out of makeshift tinfoil bowls that Derick had grabbed from a street vendor. We talked about everything and nothing, and when it was time to go, Derick looked at me.

"Goodnight,” he said. “I love you.”

“Goodnight,” I said. “I love you too.”

 --- Duggar, Jill. Counting the Cost (p. 79). Gallery Books. Kindle Edition. 

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Jeeves

[quarks]

18 minutes ago, Zella said:

I've long thought TLC was a quiet villain in all this that doesn't get enough criticism. I think they've made it clear time and again that they really don't care as long as they were getting what they wanted. They didn't ask questions because they didn't care about the answers. 

 

Yeah. I want to be clear that I'm by no means excusing TLC's role in this - the very best, kindest interpretation of their role here was that they were underpaying the entire group and exploiting their ignorance of entertainment law and practices, and that, again, is the very best, kindest, interpretation.

But a studio saying, "Hey, Talent, I think you might want to seek alternative representation/management" is, most of the time, wildly unethical/a real red flag, so on that tiny point I'm willing to cut TLC a break here. 

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, quarks said:

 

But a studio saying, "Hey, Talent, I think you might want to seek alternative representation/management" is, most of the time, wildly unethical/a real red flag, so on that tiny point I'm willing to cut TLC a break here. 

I wasn't really responding to that part of the conversation. I am talking about TLC's role in general. Time and again, they quietly stood by and waited until the last minute to cancel the Duggars because they clearly didn't want to and only had to do so when they realized the public opinion backlash was too much. I am sure they saw much more incriminating shit than Jim Bob being a greedy asshole, and they didn't care. 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Zella

[quarks]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

I wasn't really responding to that part of the conversation. I am talking about TLC's role in general. Time and again, they quietly stood by and waited until the last minute to cancel the Duggars because they clearly didn't want to and only had to do so when they realized the public opinion backlash was too much. I am sure they saw much more incriminating shit than Jim Bob being a greedy asshole, and they didn't care. 

(nods)

100% agreed. I was just responding to the person who wanted to know why TLC wasn't asking questions, and noting that in general, studios do not discuss agency/management choices with talent.

But as far as I can tell, TLC did see enough to justify contacting the IRS, at the very least. That would not have involved speaking directly to talent about their management, and would not have been unethical or unheard of. But I've seen no evidence that anyone at TLC reached out to the IRS or any other legal authority, which strongly suggests that, as you say, they didn't care. 

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, quarks said:

But as far as I can tell, TLC did see enough to justify contacting the IRS, at the very least. That would not have involved speaking directly to talent about their management, and would not have been unethical or unheard of. But I've seen no evidence that anyone at TLC reached out to the IRS or any other legal authority, which strongly suggests that, as you say, they didn't care. 

If the end result of this memoir is Jim Bob getting the Al Capone treatment (I mean the building time due to tax evasion charges not the syphilis LOL), that's some very wonderful karma. And I say that as someone who still side-eyes Derrick a lot. 

I would love to know what conversation Jill had with the ghost writer about the discussion around the tax stuff. I don't think that would have been published if they weren't both very aware of the potential legal implications for Jim Bob if someone were interested in following up on that.