Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[PikaScrewChu]

Genuine question. How are they doing harm by sending Israel to public school?

Proper schooling is one of the reasons the Jeubs weren't able to keep all their children in the fold.

[Suzn]

29 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

Genuine question. How are they doing harm by sending Israel to public school?

Proper schooling is one of the reasons the Jeubs weren't able to keep all their children in the fold.

The harm is not in sending Israel to school.  The harm is believing that they have changed their views in any significant way.  They still want to limit the rights of others.

[lascuba]

43 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

Genuine question. How are they doing harm by sending Israel to public school?

Proper schooling is one of the reasons the Jeubs weren't able to keep all their children in the fold.

Err, I didn't say sending him to school was doing harm. I'm saying sending him to public school doesn't change the fact that they are doing harm. Derick grew up going to public school. So did Michelle, for that matter.

[JoanArc]

13 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

Whatever you or I may think of it, the SBC is a mainstream church attended by millions of people, including divorced people and people who use birth control and women who work and people who go on dates. It is far more mainstream than a church in Kendra’s dad’s garage attended by

 I’m really glad my post provoked a lot of really good discussion. My semester is killing me so I wish I could write something more substantial in response.  I didn’t mean my time to sound accusatory toward you. I will agree that Southern Baptists are more main stream, but my exposure to attending their churches and meeting new people is there’s a lot of winking and nodding and admiration for people that live like fundamentalists do. Even Jim Bob has a relationship with the pastor of Cross Church, who, if I am not wrong, is the head of the SBC.  It’s also interesting every Baptist Church in my area has changed their name taking the word Baptist out and Calling it some neutral name on par with cross church.

 I understand that breaking away is a process and honestly we do tear up Jill for every little thing.  She and Derreck both  invite this by sharing every little aspect of their lives online. I wish her therapist would focus on teaching Jill to maybe get some privacy while she is going through major changes and just not post everything, or anything at all. 

What does breaking away actually look like to me? She may actually totally leave religion altogether, many people in worse situations and worse religions have left, and make Jill’s struggles look like child’s play.  I agree with the posters who say the Dillards are still basically assholes, because they are.  I will consider Jill to a broken away when she is able to hold a conversation like an adult, and not like a brainwashed 13-year-old girl. With critical thinking and opinions of her own.  She will be broken away when she is able to hold down some kind of job, responsibilities, or simply wake up in the morning with a freaking alarm clock on a consistent basis.  She will be broken away with the grifting stops.  She will be broken away when she is actually able to verbalize her emotions, and make choices for herself, and honestly express herself, like maybe the number of children she wants to have. Or her feelings for children in general. 

 She will be broken away when she is a whole person.  I think she will get there, eventually.  I think her boys will, which is more than we can say for any of these other kids. 

He’s a whole person, just a horribly bitter person. I get the feeling he wants to take revenge on some of the slights of his life and is going to use being a Jude or lawyer to do it. I wonder how empty he is going to feel after his first victory and there’s nothing left. 

[PikaScrewChu]

I'm doubtful anyone here is salivating over the fact the Dillards have sent their kids to public school and that means everything is forgiven.

Plenty of hateful people have gone to public school. Plenty of perfectly pleasant people have gone to public school. At least Israel has the chance to be exposed to new ideals and not be doomed to 100% buy into what his parents are selling like the rest of his cousins. That's how the fundie cycle starts to break down.

People are going a bit overboard on Twitter, yes. But I see this as a net positive for the kid. If nothing else, at least they made the right decision for Izzy for once. Derick and Jill may be a lost cause but the boys aren't (yet).

[crazy8s]

I never thought Derick and Jill had really changed all that much on any of their beliefs and will be shocked if Jill does well dealing with school and schedule.

I am just so happy for Izzy that he can get out of the house, meet new kids, play at recess, hear a non bible story, maybe learn something about art and science. He seems a bright child. His apparent joy in the signing up for school video made me happy for him for those reasons.

[SMama]

At a minimum Izzy will get answers to many questions. Anyone remember the video where Izzy asked why they could see the moon in daytime and Jill completely ignored him? It wasn’t rocket science and homeschool teacher Jill was stumped.

Edited February 28, 2020 by SMama

[Jynnan tonnix]

2 hours ago, JoanArc said:

 I’m really glad my post provoked a lot of really good discussion. My semester is killing me so I wish I could write something more substantial in response.  I didn’t mean my time to sound accusatory toward you. I will agree that Southern Baptists are more main stream, but my exposure to attending their churches and meeting new people is there’s a lot of winking and nodding and admiration for people that live like fundamentalists do. Even Jim Bob has a relationship with the pastor of Cross Church, who, if I am not wrong, is the head of the SBC.  It’s also interesting every Baptist Church in my area has changed their name taking the word Baptist out and Calling it some neutral name on par with cross church.

 I understand that breaking away is a process and honestly we do tear up Jill for every little thing.  She and Derreck both  invite this by sharing every little aspect of their lives online. I wish her therapist would focus on teaching Jill to maybe get some privacy while she is going through major changes and just not post everything, or anything at all. 

What does breaking away actually look like to me? She may actually totally leave religion altogether, many people in worse situations and worse religions have left, and make Jill’s struggles look like child’s play.  I agree with the posters who say the Dillards are still basically assholes, because they are.  I will consider Jill to a broken away when she is able to hold a conversation like an adult, and not like a brainwashed 13-year-old girl. With critical thinking and opinions of her own.  She will be broken away when she is able to hold down some kind of job, responsibilities, or simply wake up in the morning with a freaking alarm clock on a consistent basis.  She will be broken away with the grifting stops.  She will be broken away when she is actually able to verbalize her emotions, and make choices for herself, and honestly express herself, like maybe the number of children she wants to have. Or her feelings for children in general. 

 She will be broken away when she is a whole person.  I think she will get there, eventually.  I think her boys will, which is more than we can say for any of these other kids. 

He’s a whole person, just a horribly bitter person. I get the feeling he wants to take revenge on some of the slights of his life and is going to use being a Jude or lawyer to do it. I wonder how empty he is going to feel after his first victory and there’s nothing left. 

Great post. I'd just add one caveat to the breaking away; when it comes to children, if she ever comes to the conclusion that motherhood was not for her, and that she resented having to take that route in life, I hope she does not pass that on to the kids. I would hope that she could simply state that two children was quite enough without implying that it was more than she wanted. 

If course, I hope that she does NOT come to a conclusion that she would have been happier without her children, but just in case...

[hathorlive]

2 hours ago, SMama said:

At a minimum Izzy will get answers to many questions. Anyone remember the video where Izzy asked why they could see the moon in daytime and Jill completely ignored him? It wasn’t rocket science and homeschool teacher Jill was stumped.

This!  None of us think Jill and Derrick are changed for the better because of sending their kids to public school.  We just think they'll be able to conjugate verbs correctly, know the difference between gone and went, and not say "anyways".  It means they may go to college, earn a paycheck and stop the dependence on the TLC JB gravy train.  Education is the way for many who are trapped in a myriad of bad circumstances.  By not being taught by a badly educated mom, the two boys may have a chance to have a normal life where they don't have to play by JB's rules.  And that is indeed freedom.

[Oldernowiser]

Education = options.

That’s why cult leaders fear it and avoid it.

[Oldernowiser]

There’s another reason I hope Izzy stays in school. He strikes me as a child who needs approval and having other ways to succeed other than trying to figure out his inconsistent parents could really help his self-confidence.

[JustRosie]

Real question...what kind of science were the Duggar kids taught at Duggar Academy?  Actual real science, creationism, something else etc. Thanks!

[Sew Sumi]

Something definitely ceeationist-based. Remember, these are Young Earthers. 

[JoanArc]

4 minutes ago, Namaste said:

Real question...what kind of science were the Duggar kids taught at Duggar Academy?  Actual real science, creationism, something else etc. Thanks!

 Creationism, with pretty much no actual science. 

Jessa’s hot take on evolution

 Jenna was film for the show  when I went to the creation Museum saying evolution made sense but her programming suddenly kicked in and she said it couldn’t possibly be real anyway. 

 There are many such examples out there. 

[JustRosie]

4 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 Creationism, with pretty much no actual science. 

Jessa’s hot take on evolution

 Jenna was film for the show  when I went to the creation Museum saying evolution made sense but her programming suddenly kicked in and she said it couldn’t possibly be real anyway. 

 There are many such examples out there. 

Thank you!

[Future Cat Lady]

I see people talking about Jill seeing a therapist. Did I miss something? I don't think it was ever confirmed that she was seeing someone. She seems to read some self-help books, but it doesn't mean she's actually going to a real therapist.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Future Cat Lady

[Sew Sumi]

No, it's never been confirmed that she's in therapy.

[GeeGolly]

I think if Jill was to move from Super Fundy to Fundy-lite it would be an improvement. I think Izzy going to school is awesome.

But Izzy going to school doesn't mean Derick has changed.

[Churchhoney]

54 minutes ago, Namaste said:

Real question...what kind of science were the Duggar kids taught at Duggar Academy?  Actual real science, creationism, something else etc. Thanks!

I don't know exactly what they used in addition to the ATI "wisdom booklets." But they did use those to some extent -- and the ATI stuff  "taught" "science" that pretends to be real but is basically scientific lingo twisted for the purpose of convincing people of Gothard's ideas about how to live and, according to some people, confusing everybody including the parents to the point that they give up and just take Gothard's word for stuff instead of ever trying to understand and think for themselves.......Wouldn't be surprising if that were true -- that's pretty much what Scientology "teachings" do, too. 

Here's some analysis of the "science" portions of the ATI "curriculum" from a critic, at Patheos...

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2016/07/examining-ati-wisdom-booklets-booklet-1-science-portion-how-eyes-work/

It shows how they put in stuff that, at first blush, looks like science but actually is just a bunch of sophistry in "scientific" terms created to prove Gothard-y "principles." .... Very similar to the famous "lessons" about "bankruptcy law" and so on in those books. 

(Some more links to the same writer's commentary on other wisdom' booklets' science stuff -- and text from the booklets themselves -- are at this url       http://whencowsandkidscollide.blogspot.com/p/ati-wisdom-booklet-debunked.html       )

Edited February 29, 2020 by Churchhoney

[Sew Sumi]

Gothard's eye lesson is notorious. And it's about all the "science" there is.

[JustRosie]

5 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I don't know exactly what they used in addition to the ATI "wisdom booklets." But they did use those to some extent -- and the ATI stuff  "taught" "science" that pretends to be real but is basically scientific lingo twisted for the purpose of convincing people of Gothard's ideas about how to live and, according to some people, confusing everybody including the parents to the point that they give up and just take Gothard's word for stuff instead of ever trying to understand and think for themselves.......Wouldn't be surprising if that were true -- that's pretty much what Scientology "teachings" do, too. 

Here's some analysis of the "science" portions of the ATI "curriculum" from a critic, at Patheos...

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2016/07/examining-ati-wisdom-booklets-booklet-1-science-portion-how-eyes-work/

It shows how they put in stuff that, at first blush, looks like science but actually is just a bunch of sophistry in "scientific" terms created to prove Gothard-y "principles." .... Very similar to the famous "lessons" about "bankruptcy law" and so on in those books. 

 

Thank you!

[Churchhoney]

8 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Gothard's eye lesson is notorious. And it's about all the "science" there is.

Have they ever said what other publisher of school materials -- if any -- they've used? 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Churchhoney

[JustRosie]

Bin taught a science class in an episode last season. I wonder what scholarly research he based that lesson on?

[Sew Sumi]

8 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Have they other said what other publisher of school materials -- if any -- they've used? 

Jill mentioned her curriculum, but I don't recall what it was. It was NOT ATI. 

Jessa is using the Charlotte Mason method.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Sew Sumi

[Churchhoney]

4 minutes ago, Namaste said:

Bin taught a science class in an episode last season. I wonder what scholarly research he based that lesson on?

Well, Bin being Bin, I have a feeling that he probably actually tried to base his lesson on something decent (according to his lights)....I think Bin means well.....But....Bin's intentions and Bin's knowledge and ability ... uh....kinda...diverge.....

Edited February 29, 2020 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

18 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Jill mentioned her curriculum, but I don't recall what it was. It was NOT ATI. 

Well, that's another big point for Jill! ....and Jessa -- My goodness. Curriculum created by an Anglican! .... I wonder who convinced her to be that broad-minded?!!!! Amazing. Wonder how far she'll go with it. 

I'd assume, actually, that it's quite likely none of the kids will use the ATI curriculum...or at least won't rely on it in anyway.....I mean, it's old news, I'm  sure it's very little used anywhere today,.....

Hoping that's not just more of my wishful thinking....

Edited February 29, 2020 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

16 minutes ago, Namaste said:

Thank you!

If you ever want to see what the ATI wisdom booklets are like, there's an archive here of page by page pdfs of them. Only one of the 54 books is currently missing from this archive -- 

https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2015/05/31/wisdom-booklet-archive-index/

You don't have to read much to see how they take legitimate topics and weave all kinds of sophistry and obfuscating weirdness through them so that they couldn't actually end up teaching anybody anything, in the sense of schooling. And why they claim they "teach" all kinds of school-type subjects ... Pretty much every possible subject gets twisted....

Brainwashing through confusion, though, yeah.....They've got that down. 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Churchhoney

[Sew Sumi]

I would bet you that Anna uses it. That one is steeped in Gothard Kool Aid, and her BIL David Waller is the current President of ATI. 

[Churchhoney]

Just now, Sew Sumi said:

I would bet you that Anna uses it. That one is steeped in Gothard Kool Aid, and her BIL David Waller is the current President of ATI. 

Yeah, I completely agree. I forgot about Anna. 

I try to forget about Anna (and company). Glad to see that sometimes works for me. 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Churchhoney

[fonfereksglen]

5 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, Bin being Bin, I have a feeling that he probably actually tried to base his lesson on something decent (according to his lights)....I think Bin means well.....But....Bin's intentions and Bin's knowledge and ability ... uh....kinda...diverge.....

Yes,  he continues to be the least educated person ever who supposedly holds a two year degree.  In my world,  that is a ticket to a bright future.

Yet, Bin is so ridiculous that he allows his wife to post videos of his haircut for our perpetual derision.

 

 

[lascuba]

2 hours ago, hathorlive said:

This!  None of us think Jill and Derrick are changed for the better because of sending their kids to public school.  We just think they'll be able to conjugate verbs correctly, know the difference between gone and went, and not say "anyways".  It means they may go to college, earn a paycheck and stop the dependence on the TLC JB gravy train.  Education is the way for many who are trapped in a myriad of bad circumstances.  By not being taught by a badly educated mom, the two boys may have a chance to have a normal life where they don't have to play by JB's rules.  And that is indeed freedom.

There have been a lot of posts about how much better than JB Derick is and how good he's been for Jill. But yes, I agree that it's certainly better that Israel will be going to Kindergarten (at least) instead of being homeschooled by Jill. Whether it makes any difference in his beliefs remains to be seen, but if nothing else he'll be better educated. 

1 hour ago, JoanArc said:

 Creationism, with pretty much no actual science. 

Jessa’s hot take on evolution

 Jenna was film for the show  when I went to the creation Museum saying evolution made sense but her programming suddenly kicked in and she said it couldn’t possibly be real anyway. 

 There are many such examples out there. 

I always read that comment as another creationist talking about. Like, "Sure, those heathens make evolution *sound* logical, but don't be fooled."

[Zella]

FWIW, Charlotte Mason is kind of trendy with Christian homeschoolers now. I don't think a lot of them are going full Charlotte Mason or reading Charlotte Mason, though. Her program, if followed as she envisioned it, can be pretty intense in its own way. There are curriculums that do a watered-down Charlotte Mason-ish thing from a Christian perspective. I would be surprised if Jill or Jessa, if questioned about Charlotte Mason, could tell you a damn thing about her or what she actually said versus what some curriculum publisher has interpreted her as saying. 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Zella

[mynextmistake]

12 hours ago, JoanArc said:

 I’m really glad my post provoked a lot of really good discussion. My semester is killing me so I wish I could write something more substantial in response.  I didn’t mean my time to sound accusatory toward you. I will agree that Southern Baptists are more main stream, but my exposure to attending their churches and meeting new people is there’s a lot of winking and nodding and admiration for people that live like fundamentalists do. Even Jim Bob has a relationship with the pastor of Cross Church, who, if I am not wrong, is the head of the SBC.  It’s also interesting every Baptist Church in my area has changed their name taking the word Baptist out and Calling it some neutral name on par with cross church.

 I understand that breaking away is a process and honestly we do tear up Jill for every little thing.  She and Derreck both  invite this by sharing every little aspect of their lives online. I wish her therapist would focus on teaching Jill to maybe get some privacy while she is going through major changes and just not post everything, or anything at all. 

What does breaking away actually look like to me? She may actually totally leave religion altogether, many people in worse situations and worse religions have left, and make Jill’s struggles look like child’s play.  I agree with the posters who say the Dillards are still basically assholes, because they are.  I will consider Jill to a broken away when she is able to hold a conversation like an adult, and not like a brainwashed 13-year-old girl. With critical thinking and opinions of her own.  She will be broken away when she is able to hold down some kind of job, responsibilities, or simply wake up in the morning with a freaking alarm clock on a consistent basis.  She will be broken away with the grifting stops.  She will be broken away when she is actually able to verbalize her emotions, and make choices for herself, and honestly express herself, like maybe the number of children she wants to have. Or her feelings for children in general. 

 She will be broken away when she is a whole person.  I think she will get there, eventually.  I think her boys will, which is more than we can say for any of these other kids. 

He’s a whole person, just a horribly bitter person. I get the feeling he wants to take revenge on some of the slights of his life and is going to use being a Jude or lawyer to do it. I wonder how empty he is going to feel after his first victory and there’s nothing left. 

No, I owe you an apology. My post came off as way more defensive than I meant it to. We lost a close family member last week and my preschooler is having a really hard time coping, so nobody in our house is getting much sleep. I’m sorry I was sharp tongued. 

I guess I also feel like some people are misinterpreting my original post. I was just trying to explain why I thought Izzy was being allowed to go to public school (because Derick isn’t fundie) and why I thought Izzy going to school was a good thing. I don’t think that I or anyone who posted similar comments were suggesting that being more mainstream made Derick a better person. I guess I thought that was clear, but maybe it wasn’t. Regardless, I still think Derick is an asshole, but I also think being allowed to go to public school will be great for Izzy. Those two things aren’t mutually exclusive. Derick can be an asshole who occasionally makes  good decisions.

Like you, I wish Jill could develop her confidence and critical thinking skills. Izzy and Sam will both be in school in a couple of years, and unless they have another child by then Jill would presumably be able to take a part-time job or some kind of volunteer gig where maybe she will meet people who will challenge her views. That would also require her to keep to a schedule. She has been shown reading books about boundaries and has talked about listening to self help podcasts, which are a step in the right direction. I hope she keeps taking those steps and eventually learns to be a competent adult. 

[xwordfanatik]

14 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

If you ever want to see what the ATI wisdom booklets are like, there's an archive here of page by page pdfs of them. Only one of the 54 books is currently missing from this archive -- 

https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2015/05/31/wisdom-booklet-archive-index/

You don't have to read much to see how they take legitimate topics and weave all kinds of sophistry and obfuscating weirdness through them so that they couldn't actually end up teaching anybody anything, in the sense of schooling. And why they claim they "teach" all kinds of school-type subjects ... Pretty much every possible subject gets twisted....

Brainwashing through confusion, though, yeah.....They've got that down. 

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.  

Don't bother them with truth...they've got no use for it.  Pretty damn sad.

[Churchhoney]

6 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.  

Don't bother them with truth...they've got no use for it.  Pretty damn sad.

Very sad.

And it's amazing to me that quite a few parents fell for that crap and force fed it to their kids for years and years.....Gothard has tended to attract fairly educated parents too, it seems. .... So obviously education provides little defense against falling for crap like this. And it is such crap. 

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, Zella said:

FWIW, Charlotte Mason is kind of trendy with Christian homeschoolers now. I don't think a lot of them are going full Charlotte Mason or reading Charlotte Mason, though. Her program, if followed as she envisioned it, can be pretty intense in its own way. There are curriculums that do a watered-down Charlotte Mason-ish thing from a Christian perspective. I would be surprised if Jill or Jessa, if questioned about Charlotte Mason, could tell you a damn thing about her or what she actually said versus what some curriculum publisher has interpreted her as saying. 

And, actually, now that I think of it, I can see how you might twist Mason's ideas into an excuse to be kind of lazy and anti-intellectual, if you're a Duggar.......(even though she didn't intended the opposite..) .......Still, I hope it at least means that they'll keep the wisdom books at bay....

Edited February 29, 2020 by Churchhoney

[Zella]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

And, actually, now that I think of it, I can see how you might twist Mason's ideas into an excuse to be kind of lazy and anti-intellectual, if you're a Duggar.......(even though she didn't intended the opposite..) .......Still, I hope it at least means that they'll keep the wisdom books at bay....

Yes, and that goes beyond the Duggars too. My familiarity with Charlotte Mason comes from a homeschool curriculum editing project I worked on a couple of years ago. I had to research Mason's methods but also poke around and see how people were using them now to see if what the author was doing was a) actually Charlotte Mason and b) marketable.

And from what I could tell, in incompetent or lazy hands, it descends pretty easily into people just doing low-key stuff like sketching and oral narration and avoiding anything too rigorous. They'll even just half-ass the "living books" aspect, depriving the student of one of the best aspects of the method (in my opinion.) I could easily see the Duggar kids who are dabbling in Charlotte Mason to homeschool their own kids being attracted to the surface-level aspects without it significantly challenging them or their own kids. 

One of the things that actually intrigued me the most about Mason's methods was her fluency in foreign languages and the immersion techniques she used on her students with teaching them French and German (among others). I don't see Jill or Jessa pulling that one off, either, but I also noticed most discussions of Charlotte Mason in modern Christian homeschooling circles skip right over that. 

Though to be fair, I don't think many Americans could handle that aspect of Charlotte Mason's pedagogy. I'd like to think I'm fairly well-educated and well-read, but on a scale of 1 to 5, my foreign language ability is . . . Brad Pitt "speaking" "Italian" in Inglourious Basterds, so -5. 😉

🤣

Edited February 29, 2020 by Zella

[Sew Sumi]

Looks like Jill got invited to this girls' outing. Abbie is also there. I guess this is the one they didn't film.

 

[mimionthebeach]

On 2/23/2020 at 10:56 PM, farmgal4 said:

I’d like to believe that one of the primary reasons why Israel is going to a real school is because Jill has realized how woefully uneducated she truly is, and she wants better for her sons.  I may be wrong; Jill may not possess that much self-awareness.

Jill is the only Duggar daughter thus far who's shown any real interest in education. As a teenager, she wanted to study nursing. She actually asked her parents if she could go to school. They "prayed on it" and decided it wasn't God's (JB and M's) "plan for her" probably because penises and JB's need for his children's achievements to fall short of his own. They approved of the midwifery because no penises and poor Jana had to tag along (pretending to be training to be a doula). But at least Jill persisted in obtaining the education she was allowed. We've also seen evidence that she's taken some "post secondary" course(s). That's more than any of the older girls have done. Jill actually wanted to be something, to learn something. It may have come as a shock to both Jill and Derick that her education was so lacking. 

Derick clearly values education. He grew up in a family that valued education, evidenced at least by his mother's multiple degrees. I'm not surprised that they've made the decision to enroll Israel in school. 

I find their views and values abhorrent, don't get me wrong. But Derick's not the worst of them.  I also think that Jill and Derick's marriage is more of a partnership than a headship/submissive one. I don't think he's an authoritarian because I don't think that's the way marriage was modeled by his parents. I think he's been supportive of Jill and that they're working well as a unit pulling away from the Cult of Duggar. It's a process. 

And while I'm on a roll, set me a table for one.  I believe Derick's attacks on Jazz were the result of a falling out with TLC and Papa Duggar, not the cause. I see his anger at TLC taken out on Jazz. Maybe along the lines of why are they willing to deal with that "weird and abusive" family (his view,  not mine) but not deal with an upstanding Christian like me? Anyway, his bizarre Twitter rants always seemed reactionary to me, almost not about Jazz at all. 🤷‍♀️

On 2/24/2020 at 6:24 PM, Temperance said:

Austin is certainly more likable and better-looking, but he's easily the most conservative. He has shown through his words and actions that he is just like his in-laws and parents. 

The only reason Austin comes across as less conservative is because he's not active on social media. 

On 2/25/2020 at 10:39 AM, Zella said:

Nvm

 

On 2/27/2020 at 9:07 AM, PuffinFizz said:

How did Joy rebel exactly? 

She had an inkling of a thought that may have been her own. Joe fixed her. 

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Looks like Jill got invited to this girls' outing. Abbie is also there. I guess this is the one they didn't film.

 

That's very interesting! I wonder how awkward that was. . . . 

[JustRosie]

5 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Looks like Jill got invited to this girls' outing. Abbie is also there. I guess this is the one they didn't film.

 

At least there were no goofy black hats. 

[JoanArc]

12 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

No, I owe you an apology. My post came off as way more defensive than I meant it to. We lost a close family member last week and my preschooler is having a really hard time coping, so nobody in our house is getting much sleep. I’m sorry I was sharp tongued. 

 Not at all, I think  you gave my flippant response to good run for it’s money. Hopefully whatever you’re going through will pass quickly. 

 

 I also forgot to add that group picture must be for pregnancy announcement. Jingle doesn’t just fly to Arkansas’s for anything. I’m sure she wouldn’t even set foot there if she wasn’t contractually obligated 

Edited February 29, 2020 by JoanArc

[Minivanessa]

12 minutes ago, mimionthebeach said:

And while I'm on a roll, set me a table for one.  I believe Derick's attacks on Jazz were the result of a falling out with TLC and Papa Duggar, not the cause. I see his anger at TLC taken out on Jazz. Maybe along the lines of why are they willing to deal with that "weird and abusive" family (his view,  not mine) but not deal with an upstanding Christian like me? Anyway, his bizarre Twitter rants always seemed reactionary to me, almost not about Jazz at all.

That's a very interesting idea, and it makes sense to me. 

I posted upthread my speculations about the dynamics between Derick and JB. Derick's late father - who apparently Derick loved very much and misses dearly - was a career law enforcement officer. He functioned successfully in an organization with a chain of command, in a job with assigned shifts and which required him to deal, every day, with all sorts of people.

OTOH, JB is a fast-talking wheeler-dealer, lord of his own realm, used to running his family and his businesses, on his own terms, on his own schedule of "Duggar Time," and being the Big Cheese at whom his wife looks adoringly at all times (at least when out in public).

I've wondered if Derick started giving JB the side-eye, the more he got to know him and watch him in action. Throw in whatever JB's financial shenanigans as to the Dillards' TLC gigs were, and the Joshgate revelations? Enough to take the shine off that relationship, I would think. And if Derick was left frustrated by TLC as well, I can see him losing it and lashing out. 

Note to JB: next time you think you're getting a submissive young Jesus freak to marry one of your daughters, one you can control and roll over at will? Be sure he doesn't have a bachelor's degree in accounting. Even those really Jesus-y accountants know about looking at the receipts and can add up numbers. Just saying.

[Soaper410]

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

Looks like Jill got invited to this girls' outing. Abbie is also there. I guess this is the one they didn't film.

 

Michelle's hair is all I can see, its so dang tragic. 

[dargosmydaddy]

I wonder where Johannah was?

Interesting that Joy rather than Lauren is holding Bella.

Aw, Jenni got to stand next to her real mom... wonder how long it was since she last got to see Jill?

[PikaScrewChu]

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

Looks like Jill got invited to this girls' outing. Abbie is also there. I guess this is the one they didn't film.

 

"Ok everyone smile and say cheese"

Sam: "No"

[hathorlive]

20 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

I wonder where Johannah was?

Interesting that Joy rather than Lauren is holding Bella.

Aw, Jenni got to stand next to her real mom... wonder how long it was since she last got to see Jill?

It will be interesting to see if JB/Meech post anything for Jill's birthday.   I know it won't be the glowing "godly example of Jesus's grace that is Josh" worthy, but will she get anything more than "and on this day Heathen Jill came into the world to contaminate our household with public education".   It's telling we've not seen a picture of Jill and her mom since last summer.

I'm totally on Team Jill now.  And if that means dragging Derrick along, I can do that.

[galaxychaser]

Felicity looks so bored/I’m over it mom. I love it.

[mynextmistake]

2 hours ago, Zella said:

That's very interesting! I wonder how awkward that was. . . . 

Look at the body language. All the adult women are standing grouped together on either side of the group. Jill is by herself with Jenny (?) to one side and a big space between her and Jana/Jessa on the other side. Also, that is the fakest smile i’ve ever seen on Jill. I’m guessing she was only invited because JB knows there’s talk of a rift and wants to quash it, but nobody really wanted her there and she knew it. She probably only went because that’s the only chance she gets to see her nieces/nephews/little sisters anymore.

[Sew Sumi]

Who knows when the last time Jill saw Joy or Jenni was. At least they're standing together as "buddies."

Edited February 29, 2020 by Sew Sumi