Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[goodolmom]

Perhaps the molestation had been so glossed over and ignored by her parents she spent years feeling that it really wasn't that important.  It was only after the word got out and she realized that outside the Duggar bubble it was, indeed, a big deal.  No, molestation is not common in all families.  Now realizing that, I wonder if she is finally experiencing the trauma that has been shrugged off for years.  

[MamaMax]

30 minutes ago, goodolmom said:

Perhaps the molestation had been so glossed over and ignored by her parents she spent years feeling that it really wasn't that important.  It was only after the word got out and she realized that outside the Duggar bubble it was, indeed, a big deal.  No, molestation is not common in all families.  Now realizing that, I wonder if she is finally experiencing the trauma that has been shrugged off for years.  

Trying to have a normal sexual relationship with her husband may have opened her eyes a bit.

Having a child of her own may have as well.

[toodles]

Jb sold his family to TLC.  Lock, stock and barrel.  I'm fuzzy on the timeline with Joshgate, to the best of my knowledge it happened prior to TLC.  How he lives with himself knowing the pain he caused his family is beyond me.  He trotted out Jill and jessa when the shit hit the fan with the same regard for their feelings as I'm sure he had at the time all this happened. Which is none. They were trained just like show dogs for the fox interview.  As long as he can keep the money rolling in, he couldn't care less as to how it affects his family.

But to keep sort of on topic, I'm no fan of Jilly muffin.  She is a childish,  self-righteous air head.  But she is also a product of her f***d up childhood.  What a mess.

Edited April 1, 2017 by toodles

[Churchhoney]

12 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I agree that survivors of trauma can suffer greatly and many for the rest of their lives. And I have worked with a great many where the impact was minimal and some who can move forward rather quickly. I also have learned how hard it is for survivors to work on their traumas, one on one with a trusted therapist.  One of the most common themes I see with survivors is their need for privacy and control in regard to their traumas. Maybe this is mostly where I'm coming from. I guess I'm feeling the need to protect Jill & Jessa in the same way I would be protecting the many folks I have worked with over 20+ years.

The thing that mostly disturbs me about the Duggar situation, though, is that I'm absolutely certain that none of the kids involved, including Josh, were given any space, time, privacy, control, understanding, love or intelligent assistance and counsel or, in fact, anything at all that would have been of value to them in dealing with the trauma. Instead, they were immediately and permanently keelhauled into a state of extreme cover-up and denial engineered by their supremely selfish and supremely stupid and ignorant parents.

That being the case, I expect that they're not just the victims (or perpetrators, in Josh's case) of the molestation. They're also the victims of having all their perceptions and memories and judgments of the mess battered and banged into the shape that the would-be senator-then-teevee-star and his evil bride thought best for them -- while pretending it was all on Christ's orders, of course. And, therefore, any response that any of the kids has had to the traumatic events since doesn't represent any true response that that individual would have had but a response they were ordered to have on pain of ejection from their parents' -- and God's -- good graces.

So -- when they say it was nothing and they're over it, yeah, I believe that that's how they're feeling and portraying it to themselves now.

But although I wouldn't tell them so, I also believe there's a damn good chance that one or more of them hasn't actually healed from or dealt with or actually moved on from anything.

Seems to me extremely likely that all they've really done is just continue, forever, to bury their own thoughts and feelings about what was obviously a pretty big and confusing event deeper and deeper under the mess of treacle and poison that their parents have been stuffing their ears with from day one until the present. Do you ever really heal if you never really deal? I'm sure that happens sometimes. But I expect that, in that situation, it probably still leaves a fairly big scar somewhere, even if you refuse to look at the scar forever.

Everybody's really happy to blame Jill, for instance, for being a terrible jerk who refuses to look at the true situation of the people she's supposedly missioning to and who doesn't do anything to help them. Arrogant fool, we all say. But isn't that pretty much exactly what happened to her in the Josh situation, when she was a young girl? And Jessa's a controlling bitch. Well, that's probably the personality she was born with to some degree. But even if I slept through it, after I heard that my brother was messing with me in the night, I expect I'd very much want to control everything I could. Especially if what I was actually required to do was forgive him and pretend for tv cameras that we were the happiest family on earth. So could there be some connection there? Maybe not, but maybe so, too, seems to me.

Being "over it" doesn't necessarily mean you're entirely "over it," seems to me. Especially when you never really got any space at all to deal with it. And they didn't. This is just one more thing regarding which I feel very sorry for the Duggar girls. At the same time as I want to smack them upside the head.

Don't have 19 children and treat them like paper dolls.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

The thing that mostly disturbs me about the Duggar situation, though, is that I'm absolutely certain that none of the kids involved, including Josh, were given any space, time, privacy, control, understanding, love or intelligent assistance and counsel or, in fact, anything at all that would have been of value to them in dealing with the trauma. Instead, they were immediately and permanently keelhauled into a state of extreme cover-up and denial engineered by their supremely selfish and supremely stupid and ignorant parents.

That being the case, I expect that they're not just the victims (or perpetrators, in Josh's case) of the molestation. They're also the victims of having all their perceptions and memories and judgments of the mess battered and banged into the shape that the would-be senator-then-teevee-star and his evil bride thought best for them -- while pretending it was all on Christ's orders, of course. And, therefore, any response that any of the kids has had to the traumatic events since doesn't represent any true response that that individual would have had but a response they were ordered to have on pain of ejection from their parents' -- and God's -- good graces.

So -- when they say it was nothing and they're over it, yeah, I believe that that's how they're feeling and portraying it to themselves now.

But although I wouldn't tell them so, I also believe there's a damn good chance that one or more of them hasn't actually healed from or dealt with or actually moved on from anything.

Seems to me extremely likely that all they've really done is just continue, forever, to bury their own thoughts and feelings about what was obviously a pretty big and confusing event deeper and deeper under the mess of treacle and poison that their parents have been stuffing their ears with from day one until the present. Do you ever really heal if you never really deal? I'm sure that happens sometimes. But I expect that, in that situation, it probably still leaves a fairly big scar somewhere, even if you refuse to look at the scar forever.

Everybody's really happy to blame Jill, for instance, for being a terrible jerk who refuses to look at the true situation of the people she's supposedly missioning to and who doesn't do anything to help them. Arrogant fool, we all say. But isn't that pretty much exactly what happened to her in the Josh situation, when she was a young girl? And Jessa's a controlling bitch. Well, that's probably the personality she was born with to some degree. But even if I slept through it, after I heard that my brother was messing with me in the night, I expect I'd very much want to control everything I could. Especially if what I was actually required to do was forgive him and pretend for tv cameras that we were the happiest family on earth. So could there be some connection there? Maybe not, but maybe so, too, seems to me.

Being "over it" doesn't necessarily mean you're entirely "over it," seems to me. Especially when you never really got any space at all to deal with it. And they didn't. This is just one more thing regarding which I feel very sorry for the Duggar girls. At the same time as I want to smack them upside the head.

Don't have 19 children and treat them like paper dolls.

There can be a zillion different theories and thoughts about the matter. I choose to believe what Jill has said until she says anything differently.

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

There can be a zillion different theories and thoughts about the matter. I choose to believe what Jill has said until she says anything differently.

Absolutely true. 

I wouldn't say what I'm saying here to Jill either. ...

However, I doubt that the Duggar household is a very good environment in which to manage anything or heal from anything, just as it isn't a good environment in which to learn anything or to mature!  Living in a crowd in which you're besieged day and night by people aiming to brainwash you for their own purposes probably makes everything more difficult. 

And I do also think that the Duggar environment and history give the Duggar kidults more excuses for a lot of their dumb behavior than many other people have. I'm more willing to give them a pass on a lot of things because, even though they persist in saying that their whole upbringing was perfect, I think their upbringing was horrible, crippling and very very influential in shaping their behavior right now! 

It's not just that I'm a bit skeptical of their judgment that they weren't affected at all by the whole Joshley mess. I am a bit skeptical, but I'm also prepared to believe that some or all of them weren't really affected by it or were but gradually got over it.

However, I am very very skeptical of the biggest thing that all the Duggar girls aver: that "growing up Duggar" was a wonderful experience that's produced one of the happiest, beautifully adjusted, close and loving and most competent families you'll ever see.    Uh, no .... That's a feeling they have too and a judgment they make. And it also involves what I would call trauma -- but a long-running series of traumas, not a single acute one. And in that case I'd say we have pretty clear evidence that it's taken a huge toll on them. Even though they absolutely declare that rather than being bad it's been not only good but better than any other life history imaginable. Not only do they thing it hasn't affect them adversely, they think that nothing bad has even happened. And, frankly, they're just plain wrong about that. 

Again -- if I knew the Duggars personally , if I were a person at their church or their piano teacher or an aunt or whatever, I wouldn't say any of this to them. ... What they say has to be respected -- in terms of how you treat them. Yeah. 

But when you're looking at something from the outside, is it wrong to ever ever posit that things may be worse for someone than that person imagines? I don't see why.

I went on for years in my life absolutely oblivious to the very bad effects of some things that happened to me. There were some things that I quite sincerely laughed off as absolutely inconsequential to me, that I didn't just think that I'd easily gotten over but that I didn't even brand as even particularly out of line or traumatic in the first place. No big deal. I was fine. Consequences? Warping my future behavior? Naaa.  ................And that was fine. I wouldn't have wanted other people to tell me that I was wrong about that, and I wouldn't have reacted well to anyone's telling me. And, probably mostly because I've always been generally quite competent -- and also very very explosive and tough, in my way, no one ever did tell me. 

But eventually, over the years and decades, I've come to see some of those things quite differently. And now I'm just amazed that I went on for so long not realizing that a) certain things should never have been done -- that they were highly abusive and damaging and b) I was badly warped by them and they were shaping things about me that I hadn't even imagined were nuts. .....  I now know from experience that, just because I see my life in a certain way, the way in which I see it isn't necessarily the most accurate way to see it. It may be. But then again it may not.

And, having realized some of those things myself, I later found out that some other people had thought this all along, although they had sensibly not tried to change my view by telling me they disagreed with it. And some were very happy once I finally saw some of this stuff for myself and was able to change a bit, to throw some of nutso habits and protective craziness overboard. And was it okay with me that people thought this all along? Sure. They were seeing things and making judgments about me and about events -- true things, true judgments, as it turned out -- that I just could not see or make. They didn't do me any harm by seeing my life differently from the way I saw it. And they would't have, even if their assessments had been wrong.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that if people hadn't been able to pin some of my fairly insane behavior as a young adult on my history -- long before I knew that I was behaving crazily or that my history was affecting me much at all -- I would have lost friends because they would have just written me off as a jerk. I'm glad they were able to let me off the hook because they could blame my blindness and not my underlying character! 

EMLTA: Just to clarify -- I completely agree that you take people's word for their own situations and feelings and conclusions about themselves..................But I know that's different from saying -- People are always right in what they believe about their own situations. .... And I know it's different because, over and over again in my life, I've been dead wrong about whether I was over something, whether something had affected me, and whether something had been a traumatic event at all! .... Just dead wrong. .... But I'm pleased that no one told me that at the time. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Absolutely true. 

I wouldn't say what I'm saying here to Jill either. ...

However, I doubt that the Duggar household is a very good environment in which to manage anything or heal from anything, just as it isn't a good environment in which to learn anything or to mature!  Living in a crowd in which you're besieged day and night by people aiming to brainwash you for their own purposes probably makes everything more difficult. 

And I do also think that the Duggar environment and history give the Duggar kidults more excuses for a lot of their dumb behavior than many other people have. I'm more willing to give them a pass on a lot of things because, even though they persist in saying that their whole upbringing was perfect, I think their upbringing was horrible, crippling and very very influential in shaping their behavior right now! 

It's not just that I'm a bit skeptical of their judgment that they weren't affected at all by the whole Joshley mess. I am a bit skeptical, but I'm also prepared to believe that some or all of them weren't really affected by it or were but gradually got over it.

However, I am very very skeptical of the biggest thing that all the Duggar girls aver: that "growing up Duggar" was a wonderful experience that's produced one of the happiest, beautifully adjusted, close and loving and most competent families you'll ever see.    Uh, no .... That's a feeling they have too and a judgment they make. And it also involves what I would call trauma -- but a long-running series of traumas, not a single acute one. And in that case I'd say we have pretty clear evidence that it's taken a huge toll on them. Even though they absolutely declare that rather than being bad it's been not only good but better than any other life history imaginable. Not only do they thing it hasn't affect them adversely, they think that nothing bad has even happened. And, frankly, they're just plain wrong about that. 

Again -- if I knew the Duggars personally , if I were a person at their church or their piano teacher or an aunt or whatever, I wouldn't say any of this to them. ... What they say has to be respected -- in terms of how you treat them. Yeah. 

But when you're looking at something from the outside, is it wrong to ever ever posit that things may be worse for someone than that person imagines? I don't see why.

I went on for years in my life absolutely oblivious to the very bad effects of some things that happened to me. There were some things that I quite sincerely laughed off as absolutely inconsequential to me, that I didn't just think that I'd easily gotten over but that I didn't even brand as even particularly out of line or traumatic in the first place. No big deal. I was fine. Consequences? Warping my future behavior? Naaa.  ................And that was fine. I wouldn't have wanted other people to tell me that I was wrong about that, and I wouldn't have reacted well to anyone's telling me. And, probably mostly because I've always been generally quite competent -- and also very very explosive and tough, in my way, no one ever did tell me. 

But eventually, over the years and decades, I've come to see some of those things quite differently. And now I'm just amazed that I went on for so long not realizing that a) certain things should never have been done -- that they were highly abusive and damaging and b) I was badly warped by them and they were shaping things about me that I hadn't even imagined were nuts. .....  I now know from experience that, just because I see my life in a certain way, the way in which I see it isn't necessarily the most accurate way to see it. It may be. But then again it may not.

And, having realized some of those things myself, I later found out that some other people had thought this all along, although they had sensibly not tried to change my view by telling me they disagreed with it. And some were very happy once I finally saw some of this stuff for myself and was able to change a bit, to throw some of nutso habits and protective craziness overboard. And was it okay with me that people thought this all along? Sure. They were seeing things and making judgments about me and about events -- true things, true judgments, as it turned out -- that I just could not see or make. They didn't do me any harm by seeing my life differently from the way I saw it. And they would't have, even if their assessments had been wrong.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that if people hadn't been able to pin some of my fairly insane behavior as a young adult on my history -- long before I knew that I was behaving crazily or that my history was affecting me much at all -- I would have lost friends because they would have just written me off as a jerk. I'm glad they were able to let me off the hook because they could blame my blindness and not my underlying character! 

EMLTA: Just to clarify -- I completely agree that you take people's word for their own situations and feelings and conclusions about themselves..................But I know that's different from saying -- People are always right in what they believe about their own situations. .... And I know it's different because, over and over again in my life, I've been dead wrong about whether I was over something, whether something had affected me, and whether something had been a traumatic event at all! .... Just dead wrong. .... But I'm pleased that no one told me that at the time. 

I agree with you 100%. I view many things differently as time passes. What's the saying - hindsight is 20/20? And there are times I wish someone might have opened my eyes earlier.

I speculate and discern things about the Duggars on these threads just about everyday. I have snark and I know how to use it. I also think that the Duggars find out what is written on here. Most of the time when the molestations are mentioned I scroll on by. But sometimes the conversations border on shaming the survivors and it compels me to post. Like many of us posters, I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, I'm just sharing my perspective. 

Because affect is often lacking in print, my post above is written without defensiveness or malice - just a statement.

[Sew Sumi]

On 3/31/2017 at 4:39 PM, Absolom said:

I don't think so.  I think that one was still a minor. 

You're forgetting the third one (birth order-wise). She was 20. AND there was also the minor, who was 17 when Joshgate I broke. 

[MunichNark]

I'd say that you, Churchhoney, have spent far more time thinking and actually caring about those girls than their parents ever did so far.

The only "good" thing about this scandal being public is the fact that most people wised up about this horrible cult. For the victims affected, I'm sure it wasn't quite so funny in any way, no matter how well they did or did not handle this mess.

It is truly amazing and sometimes terrifying how the human mind can suppress and not deal with certain things.

[Chicklet]

Sadly these kids were all brainwashed into doing and saying what they did. They didn't process anything- no counseling, no understanding, so no I blame their parents and Gothard. I just wish the girls had enough backbone to say no, I won't go on TV to discuss this.

And yea where would they get that backbone having been brainwashed all their lives. It's just what I wished would have happened.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Chicklet

[Absolom]

12 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

You're forgetting the third one (birth order-wise). She was 20. AND there was also the minor, who was 17 when Joshgate I broke. 

No, I'm not.   One of the three oldest was not molested. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by Absolom

[RazzleberryPie]

I think Jana is sick of being pitied or having her choice to sit at home a wait for Prince Charming being questioned. She probably also hates having to never be able to complain about her family. I don't blame her for avoiding people.

[tenativelyyours]

On 3/31/2017 at 0:18 PM, Churchhoney said:

Dare I say it -- the picture contrasts suggests to me that maybe, just maybe, Jill may be gradually becoming herself and not just what she was molded to be. .... Unfortunately for her, that's a very very long process that most people are allowed -- even, for the very lucky, encouraged -- to begin at a much earlier age. She was in her 20s before she could even dare to begin, and first she would have had to figure out that it was even an option. Another "no wonder she's so messed up," to me. 

Well, I'm no kind of clinician and have never even played one on tv. Buut I think it means that we believe that that is exactly the way she remembers it/sees it/chooses to present it now? .... Although the way we remember things or think of them at one time may change as we change? .... But nobody should try in any way to push or pull her to having a different view, just because a different view seems right to them? 

 

I agree.  But I also think that as a figure that chooses to put herself in the public and in the way that she and her family do, my forming and opinion and discussing it are not "forcing it on her".  Not that you are saying that.  I just think that there is a tone that is trying to respect her as a victim that gets clouded since the only victimization that she will admit to is people finding out.  and mostly people finding out that the family and its celebrity grift are not as perfect as they want or claim.

There is just such a huge chasm for me between what Jill Dilly Dumb claims to believe and what she wants me as a member of her viewing and (hoped) supporting public believe.  Throw in the facts that even as she and her family claim it is the intrusion of said public that is the true offense, she and her family also make no bones about trying to define the public discourse in general their way.  Despite no evidence to support their ideas.  Or the fact they themselves then put themselves in regards to the whole molestation in a clear blame the victim manner. 

Throw in yet the inescapable idea for me that there is also a chasm between what Jill believes and what Jill herself wants to believe.  I find her untrustworthy as someone to speak publicly about the events let alone define them for the rest of us.  That is unfair in a way.  But that is the price you pay when you hoist yourself on a fiberglass lawn ornament cross and demand it be filmed.  and instagramed and blogged and facebooked. 

I don't think questioning her comments is somehow forcing something on her.  She has the ability to go the fuck away already and she has not.  She has made comments trying to define the specifics of her owin experience in offensive and judgemental and completely wrong generalities that she has no business doing if the public exposure of it all is what victimizes her.  

I don't like that expectations do seem to be placed on victims.  And I do think that she draws that in some way.  But I think in the end it boils down to living your life on your front lawn kind of removes the complaints of how your neighbors judge you no matter how private and personal some matters should be.

and I should point out my quoting you specifically is not so much finding a smidgen of fault or flaw with your comments so much as using them as a jumping point to get on my soap box on the matter.

[Absolom]

For me it always comes back to if you don't want your life discussed, then take it back behind closed doors.  If my neighbors choose to fight in their driveway, they can't expect the rest of the neighborhood to pretend it isn't happening.  If you don't want people to discuss something your brother did or your reaction to a falling shower rod, then don't put it on TV.  You can't have privacy for something you yourself make public as a reasonable expectation. 

[Sew Sumi]

4 hours ago, Absolom said:

No, I'm not.   One of the three oldest was not molested. 

There are four older girls ahead of the five year old who was molested. Remember, there were five girls total, four of whom were victims. You're forgetting the washing machine incident.

[Absolom]

1 minute ago, Sew Sumi said:

You're forgetting the washing machine incident.

No I'm not.  I'll send you a PM. 

[ginger90]

"It's not a vacation" (I lost sound right at the beginning of the video, ugh)

http://www.inquisitr.com/4089903/its-not-a-vacation-jill-and-derick-dillard-duggar-missionaries-deny-claims/?utm_source=relatable&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=below_content_desktop_blank

[bigskygirl]

Poor Jill. She does not have a dryer. Try living without a running washing machine and dryer for a year because you cannot afford to buy new ones. I love the fact the article points out asking for $24,000 for a few months because a lot of people in the good ole U.S.A live on less than $24, 000 a year. Plus the fact she comes back for a few months to the states and has a nice home to live in while others are struggling to afford rent without their families helping them out.

[tenativelyyours]

Just the fact these two have the time to "refute" the ease of their vacationing?  To me says it is vacation.  This latest article also reminds me of her blogging a week or so ago about how they "mission" in a dangerous place.  Not actually live there.  Sleep there.  But go in once a week to a "dangerous" place.  And never once comments on actually what makes it dangerous (people can fall down and incur a fatal head injury here in the US).  Or what they as "missionaries" are doing to combat those things that make it dangerous for the people who do have to live there and sleep there*.  Not just swoop in and pass out tracts that either the local people can't read, or more likely he can't read (I would love it if someone with a clue at the print shop swapped out pamphlets in Spanish advocating birth control, safe sex and secular means to better society for Dreck to obliviously hand out).  Not claim to see Jesus' hand in the death of a young woman due to inadequate healthcare in the finishing of her pinata by her in-mourning friends.  Praise the Lord, Craft Projects Will be Finish in time for YouTube Self-videofication. 

I really hope someone somewhere somehow makes simple math possible for so many of their knee jerk fans.  That the math is done where they can see and understand.  That when that 24,000 is broken down to the months "missioning" and then parlayed into what it means in terms of an annual salary if that is them "sacrificing" for however many months.  What that translates into what they see as their normal annual income for sitting on a coach and smirking into a cellphone for self-absorbed selfies to propel the next fool to hit that "donate" button with the occasional ranting screed posted that demands everyone let these two judge them but don't you dare judge back.  Just love and dollars for these two folks.  Well just dollars.  Send enough and the "love" comes through loud and clear.

*I mention the sleep thing because her self-absorbed lazy ass husband made that reference to being able to sleep at night was such a core element of personal safety  and how it felt for him to visit places where he might not sleep well.

[Absolom]

Plus translate that $24,000 into what it would mean on the local El Salvadorean economy.  I'd love to see clips of a week of the real life they are living while "on the mission field."

[JoanArc]

They don't realize how suspicious asking for donations, then mentioning a a firm dollar figure looks? It's kind of like when a friend springs for dinner, so you order the most expensive thing on the menu. Not cool.

[Mollie]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

Plus translate that $24,000 into what it would mean on the local El Salvadorean economy.  I'd love to see clips of a week of the real life they are living while "on the mission field."

That $24,000 request is to support them "on the mission field" for only two months.  Then, it's back to Arkansas.  (All the while, of course, they draw a paycheck from S.O.S. Ministries for hosting their Spring Break Tours and from TLC.  

[GeeGolly]

Why do Jill, Derick and SOS Ministries think there's a greater need in CA for conversion than in other places? Actually I get why SOS does because it's a money maker. By why don't Jill & Derick do this in the US. My guess is the same reason as SOS; it's easier to get folks to donate if they think you're helping "poor people who live in huts, without a roof, in the rain". 

And do they think that life will improve for these folks if they become born again? Or do they think they'll have a better spot in heaven when they die?

[Mollie]

9 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

And do they think that life will improve for these folks if they become born again? Or do they think they'll have a better spot in heaven when they die?

I think that depends on how well they learn to make piñatas.

[RazzleberryPie]

13 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Why do Jill, Derick and SOS Ministries think there's a greater need in CA for conversion than in other places? Actually I get why SOS does because it's a money maker. By why don't Jill & Derick do this in the US. My guess is the same reason as SOS; it's easier to get folks to donate if they think you're helping "poor people who live in huts, without a roof, in the rain". 

And do they think that life will improve for these folks if they become born again? Or do they think they'll have a better spot in heaven when they die?

Jill is a Dumb Ass and Derrick is clueless. They seriously think they're on a mission. From God. Somebody send them some fedoras and sunglasses.

[Chicklet]

Well if they could sing the Blues I might believe they were on a mission from God, but alas, Dilly can only play hymns.

[tenativelyyours]

22 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Why do Jill, Derick and SOS Ministries think there's a greater need in CA for conversion than in other places? Actually I get why SOS does because it's a money maker. By why don't Jill & Derick do this in the US. My guess is the same reason as SOS; it's easier to get folks to donate if they think you're helping "poor people who live in huts, without a roof, in the rain". 

And do they think that life will improve for these folks if they become born again? Or do they think they'll have a better spot in heaven when they die?

 

1.Proximity.   It is close enough to easily flee if the shit truly does go down.  Nothing says facing danger like making sure you one two hour flight from the US*

2.People of a certain stripe in the US have long had a paternalistic view of any nation to the south of the border.  It is easy to not only maintain your sense of superiority but sell it to your like minded folks not smart enough to see past the lure of a DONATE button.

3.Its actually an easy sell in some ways to the local people you are "mission-acating" to.  They already have an idea of Christianity and so are open to beliefs and ideas in general but due to social and economic circumstances might feel abandoned by the Catholic Church or just find the gain in attention meeting their true spiritual needs.

4.It is easy to slide it in with legitimate missions, aid.  There is a need in this area.  And there are already real groups both religious and secular doing good things.  So it establishes bona fides.  I know a lot of people who have some awareness of at least one effort in Central America.  It's kind of weird in a way.  But one co-worker's son is going with graduate class members to build bridges in Panama, another friend of the family runs a dental clinic down there for a couple of weeks every summer.  Another an eye clinic. In the grocery store line just a month ago I heard the lady in front of me tell the cashier she was buying certain items because they could be shipped in Guatemala for an ongoing relief to fight Zika and some other diseases.  Hiding your grift among the legimate is sort of lazy cheater 101 when all is said and done.  You don't take a nap by yourself out where everyone else can see.  You "rest" your eyes in a group and hope to blend in.

 

*I know full well that there are plenty of things about the overall region that are dangerous and life threatening.  I'm just saying that I think these are the Dullards motivations and not those of the people putting in the real sweat and sadly blood to make lives better in the area.

[PJ123]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Why do Jill, Derick and SOS Ministries think there's a greater need in CA for conversion than in other places? Actually I get why SOS does because it's a money maker. By why don't Jill & Derick do this in the US. My guess is the same reason as SOS; it's easier to get folks to donate if they think you're helping "poor people who live in huts, without a roof, in the rain". 

And do they think that life will improve for these folks if they become born again? Or do they think they'll have a better spot in heaven when they die?

Well its a lot easier to control what information gets out in CA vs. locally here in the US where there are cameras and cell phones everywhere.  So they can say "look how we are helping" and no outside party is there to call them on their b.s.

[doodlebug]

5 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

Poor Jill. She does not have a dryer. Try living without a running washing machine and dryer for a year because you cannot afford to buy new ones. I love the fact the article points out asking for $24,000 for a few months because a lot of people in the good ole U.S.A live on less than $24, 000 a year. Plus the fact she comes back for a few months to the states and has a nice home to live in while others are struggling to afford rent without their families helping them out.

Most El Salvadorans don't have washers or running water in their homes.  They wash clothes in big tubs or in the creek.  As far as having a dryer, it's a tropical climate, for goodness' sake.  During most of the year, the sun is shining brightly all day long.  Anything she hangs outdoors on the line is dry in an hour or two tops.  The rainy season starts in late May or so and runs until about October; Jilly doesn't plan to be there then anyway.

It seems pretty clear to me that they really did expect to collect $24,000 to pay 'expenses' for just the 3 months or so they plan to be there this time.  Since they are clearly aware of the criticism of their obvious lack of actual mission work; they could've easily clarified the monetary issues and defined the'term' the money is meant to support.  The fact that they haven't indicates to me that we were dead on, these two twits expect $8000 or so a MONTH in income from donations. The average monthly income in El Salvador is $600 or so; the poor average around $150 or so.  In other words, these two servants of the Lord want 10 times the average Salvadorans' income.

[tenativelyyours]

Heck rounding up, the average monthly income per household in the US is a little under 4000 I believe.  They wanted twice that for a cost living locale at some percentage I'm way too lazy to figure out that is vastly less than in the US.  The entitlement these two have all the while wanting everyone to not only pay their way but do while acknowledging how holier they are than the rest of us is quite enraging.  Maybe that is the real goal.  Enrage enough people and someone will straighten Dreck's face free of charge.

[Arwen Evenstar]

2 hours ago, Chicklet said:

Well if they could sing the Blues I might believe they were on a mission from God, but alas, Dilly can only play hymns.

Derick's interpretive dance skills would get the same reception Jake and Elwood got before they played Rawhide.

[Marigold]

I have 5 kids and live in a non-tropical/hot area of the country and we don't have a dryer.  That's not really a hardship, Jill. 

Just shows how insensitive she is...she sounds very...spoiled? 

[Jynnan tonnix]

16 minutes ago, Marigold said:

I have 5 kids and live in a non-tropical/hot area of the country and we don't have a dryer.  That's not really a hardship, Jill. 

Just shows how insensitive she is...she sounds very...spoiled? 

My cousins all live in England, which is not exactly known for dry weather, yet of those few who even have a dryer, they just prefer to dry their clothes outside, and generally use the dryer for much-needed extra storage!

[RazzleberryPie]

Not like Jill or Derrick ever look like they wear clean clothes...........or hair........or faces.........anyway.

[GeeGolly]

Entry level accountants' salaries start at around $30,000 - $35,000 a year. About $15.00 per hour. If Derick is working 20 hours a week for 15 weeks and asking for $24K then he is wanting to make $80.00 an hour.

Shit, sign me up.

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Entry level accountants' salaries start at around $30,000 - $35,000 a year. About $15.00 per hour. If Derick is working 20 hours a week for 15 weeks and asking for $24K then he is wanting to make $80.00 an hour.

Shit, sign me up.

Now, now.  Jilly is his helpmeet, they're partners in serving the Lord. So, it's $40 an hour each.  Big difference.

[Churchhoney]

13 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Why do Jill, Derick and SOS Ministries think there's a greater need in CA for conversion than in other places? Actually I get why SOS does because it's a money maker. By why don't Jill & Derick do this in the US. My guess is the same reason as SOS; it's easier to get folks to donate if they think you're helping "poor people who live in huts, without a roof, in the rain". 

And do they think that life will improve for these folks if they become born again? Or do they think they'll have a better spot in heaven when they die?

The thing that I read the other day about conservative-Christian charitable giving -- and quoted somewhere ... in the Duggalos, I think -- said that, while conservative Christians in general aren't big givers, "domestic" giving is particularly unpopular. So it appears that shunning the homefront as a 'mission field" or charity recipient is typical of their whole crowd. And, as you say, they all know this. Ironically, they go to Danger America for the same reason people rob banks. ...Then there are the beaches, of course.

[Churchhoney]

13 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Jill is a Dumb Ass and Derrick is clueless. They seriously think they're on a mission. From God. Somebody send them some fedoras and sunglasses.

How the heck did the Duggs manage to snag three sons-in-law thus far who all have similar delusions about their "life's work"? In slightly -- but only slightly -- different ways, Der, Bin and Jer all have these delusional ideas about some great mission to save people -- Der in CA, Jer on the border in Laredo, and Bin preaching to and saving everybody, via social media and other people's football camps, as he apparently lusts for the inner city.

Is this actually some near-universal notion held by fundie young men? Or does Duggar fame somehow bring these particular loonies, and only these, out of the woodwork? Or does JB screen for this for some reason? Or all of the above? I don't get it.

[Mollie]

Yes, Jim Bob screens for these traits.  It's all part of the 50-page questionnaire that prospective suitors have to fill out.  (Here's looking at you, Austin Forsyth.)

[Absolom]

Yeah, Jim Bob checks for some key buzzwords so they all have a "heart for ministry or missions."  Sadly that seems to preclude actual working men.

[DangerousMinds]

22 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Why do Jill, Derick and SOS Ministries think there's a greater need in CA for conversion than in other places? Actually I get why SOS does because it's a money maker. By why don't Jill & Derick do this in the US. My guess is the same reason as SOS; it's easier to get folks to donate if they think you're helping "poor people who live in huts, without a roof, in the rain". 

And do they think that life will improve for these folks if they become born again? Or do they think they'll have a better spot in heaven when they die?

Plenty of homeless in the US who don't even have a hut.

[JoanArc]

Quote

Plenty of homeless in the US who don't even have a hut.

Plenty of people within a 50 mile radius of Jill's McMansion live in appalling poverty. (Jill, you were one of them. Yes, there's people that have it far worse than the 16-people-3-bedroom-1-molester house you grew up in.) Maybe she could pray for a heart to help them, and save on airfare? Paying for a heart for things gives you that thing, right, Michelle?

[LilJen]

On 4/2/2017 at 8:00 PM, tenativelyyours said:

4.It is easy to slide it in with legitimate missions, aid.  There is a need in this area.  And there are already real groups both religious and secular doing good things.  So it establishes bona fides.  I know a lot of people who have some awareness of at least one effort in Central America.  It's kind of weird in a way.  But one co-worker's son is going with graduate class members to build bridges in Panama, another friend of the family runs a dental clinic down there for a couple of weeks every summer.  Another an eye clinic. In the grocery store line just a month ago I heard the lady in front of me tell the cashier she was buying certain items because they could be shipped in Guatemala for an ongoing relief to fight Zika and some other diseases.  Hiding your grift among the legimate is sort of lazy cheater 101 when all is said and done.  You don't take a nap by yourself out where everyone else can see.  You "rest" your eyes in a group and hope to blend in.

You have just blown my mind. Nail polish and lollipops and pinatas don't prevent zika virus? or malaria?

[JoanArc]

I'd think with the real estate empire the could put up a few homeless people or displaced families in the vacant rentals/flipping houses. Jill's old mansion could house a dozen people comfortably at lest. Boom. There's you mission, there's your DONATE button, there's your tax write off, there's your cover to buy more and more property. Done.

Of course that would involve speaking to people that understand English, won't kiss your ass every second, may not convert, and helping out people long term. Oh and no warm weather and beaches year round in Arkansas. I guess the Lord isn't leading them this way.

[Chicklet]

Jesus himself was SO into nail polish and pinatas. I'm sure that's in the New Testament, right? The Gospel of Grifters, Chapter 4:12-24.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Chicklet

[WhineandCheez]

Quote

16-people-3-bedroom-1-molester house 

HEE!  Hey you know how ad boxes appear after every several posts on this site, and they reflect items you recently searched for? Well last night I was looking up yoga ashrams to visit for my birthday. So in my ad box today, on the Duggar thread, is a big picture of Swami Satchindananda (the guru who opened Woodstock) smiling down on the Duggars posts.  See Duggars, you can't tell the web to not include HEATHEN ADS on your pages!

[Natalie68]

On 4/2/2017 at 1:39 PM, bigskygirl said:

Poor Jill. She does not have a dryer. Try living without a running washing machine and dryer for a year because you cannot afford to buy new ones. I love the fact the article points out asking for $24,000 for a few months because a lot of people in the good ole U.S.A live on less than $24, 000 a year. Plus the fact she comes back for a few months to the states and has a nice home to live in while others are struggling to afford rent without their families helping them out.

Or because you rent in a horribly expensive area you are over 40 before you rent a place w a washer/dryer and spent most of your adult life at laundromats.  I REALLY want them to live a normal life without the TLC frills.  Live like a normal young adult.  

[bigskygirl]

I can picture Jill and Derick handing out religious tracts out to people in the laundromat. Jill is probably not happy one of her sisters are not there to help her out with Izzy because she might have to get off her lazy whining behind and take care of her own child. I guess Jesus does not think she is special enough to have someone watch and take care of her child(ren.)

[Natalie68]

18 hours ago, Chicklet said:

Jesus himself was SO into nail polish and pinatas. I'm sure that's in the New Testament, right? The Gospel of Grifters, Chapter 4:12-24.

When I first read this post I thought the bolded said The Gospel of Glitter.  Heading off to the closet with truffles!

[Sew Sumi]

Is RuPaul its diety? ?