Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[libgirl2]

11 minutes ago, Namaste said:

Yep, I’ve been wondering if this will appear as an episode of Dateline or 20/20. 

That is the only time I want to see anyone with the last name Duggar on my TV. 

[DXD526]

Is this thread going to be renamed again? Smuggs' current 'event' is somewhat more than 'unfortunate'. 

Don't even know where to begin with the renaming. The possibilities are endless!

[galaxygirl76]

11 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

Oh, I would love to see Keith Morrison do an episode on this. And then True Crime Obsessed can cover the Keith Morrison episode. 

OMG YES!!! I need Patrick and Gillian to cover this.

[salvame]

1 hour ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

Ben Seewald has spoken out one day after brother-in-law Josh Duggar was convicted of receiving and possessing child sexual abuse material. 

On Friday, Ben, 26, shared a statement to his social media pages on behalf of him and wife Jessa (Duggar) Seewald, Josh's younger sister. 

"From the moment we learned of this case against Josh we have prayed that God would cause the truth to be made known, no matter what it was, and that the facts would be followed wherever they led," he wrote. 

"We are grieved beyond words over the children exploited and abused in child sexual abuse material, and we are thankful for our justice system in its punishment of such evils," Ben continued. "Our hearts break for Josh's family and we ask your continued prayers for them in the unfathomable grief and pain they are enduring." 

See Jim Bob - that's how it's done, you stupid douchbag.

[cmr2014]

4 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

So much of the attitudes all the Duggars harbor about these events trace right back to the mythology with which everybody's been ceaselessly indoctrinated over the years (while being deprived of any outside influences that might encourage thought). 

Even though the IBLP/ATI remnant ostentatiously threw Gothard himself overboard, his "ideas" are what entranced them and held them together for decades. And they're still apparently determined to be a group and charge forward in an attempt to regain their influence. (JB and M wouldn't spend $2.5 million on a building in Branson if they and their longtime buddies didn't have high hopes to reanimate their poisonous crap.) 

A whole lot of the specific attitudes that have worsened this situation and will continue to make it tough for them to actually grapple with it come straight out of the IBLP/ATI language, which the IBLP/ATI core still embrace.....Like these, from an article whose description of the Duggs/Gothardite rise to media prominence over I quoted at some length over on the "media and TLC" thread (that's what I do 😁 ) --

IMAGINE IF YOU'D HAD THIS LINE HAMMERED INTO YOU AT THE SOTDRT, WHEN YOU'D BEEN MOLESTED/ASSAULTED AND HADN'T CRIED OUT -- Gothard’s philosophy on sexual assault is detailed explicitly in his publications, including in the Wisdom Booklets. When a woman is attacked, one booklet reads, “She is to cry out for help. The victim who fails to do this is equally guilty with the attacker.” [OF COURSE, IF YOU DO CRY OUT YOUR WHOLE FAMILY WILL ETERNALLY BRAND YOU A FAMILY-DESTROYING SNITCH...SO....TOUGH CHOICE HERE]

WHAT ANNA WOULD REALLY BE DOING IF SHE CONTEMPLATED DIVORCE -- Gothard has written extensively about the grounds for divorce, which in his view is almost always impermissible. As IBLP lays out in detail in Wisdom Booklet No. 26, “To allow for divorce and/or remarriage in the case of marital unfaithfulness” is the same as destroying Christ’s relationship with the Church, and the believer’s relationship with the law.

WHY TURNING A BLIND EYE TO DICEY MALE BEHAVIOR IS SOP -- While working closely with Gothard there for the next three years, Leigh said he subjected her to “holding hands, playing footsies, stroking the hair and that type of unwanted physical affection.” At the time, she was in her early twenties and he was in his seventies. She said she traveled frequently with Gothard, including on a visit to the Duggar home in 2006, where he held her hand in the presence of Jim Bob and his daughter Jill.

WHY BLAME OF WOMEN AND FAILURE TO REPORT ARE SOP -- Leigh had been raped as a child, and Gothard “counseled” her personally about it.  “He told me the sin—the pain I felt in my heart over the years—was because of my sin in it,” she said. “So he had me confess my sin for being raped as a child.” ..“I would help him counsel girls who had been sexually abused by family members,” she said. “That was not an uncommon thing. He would counsel them with that [same] material, he would immediately send them home and never report the offenders [to authorities].” Mark said he knew others who had received that same “counseling,” including a girl who had been raped by her uncle when she was five..

THE "CURIOSITY" LINE CAME STRAIGHT FROM GOTHARD -- Robert Norvell, who ran an IBLP training center in Eagle Mountain, Arkansas, for 12 years, said the Duggars had contacted him in 2003 about sending Josh to his facility. Jim Bob “just told me that Josh was having some struggles and just wondered if I could take him for a while,” but he turned them down because his facility was full. Norvell said he did not know about the sexual abuse until the May 2015 In Touch report. But he dismissed the abuse as insignificant, pointing to Gothard’s teachings. “What you’re hearing about Josh is a stupid thing that a little boy did,” Norvell said. “In the seminar, Bill [Gothard] calls it a natural curiosity. Had it been as traumatic as they make it out to be, the sisters would have been bitter, and the sisters are not bitter. I know the whole family.”

A POSSIBLE FACTUAL BASIS FOR THE PICKLES ST. PAUL STORY? OR A SOURCE FOR ITS HOAXER/FABRICATOR?   In her family, Gothard “was revered as this person who could not mess up, almost like a saint or a god,” said Joy Stillwell Simmons, now 39, who was part of ATI from the time she was eight until she was 29. “My mom would refer to him as a modern day Apostle Paul.”

More here, if you're interested.-https://talkingpointsmemo.com/theslice/josh-duggar-bill-gothard-institute-in-basic-life-principles

Thanks @Churchhoney. I found this really interesting.

All of the Duggars have shown a remarkable lack of empathy over the years (Josh, obviously, to a more horrifying degree than the others), and I think part of that may be inborn, but part of it is Gothardism.

J'chelle has offered her parenting "advice" all over television and print media for years and it begins and ends with "obedience." She eventually had to shut up about blanket training, but potty training was still about "obedience" to mother and to God. 

Over time, her complete lack of connection with her children (despite them all being able to schedule 30 minutes a month with mom and dad) led to that laughable episode where J'chelle was shown bonding with her children. When that went over like a lead balloon, we got to hear from the adult daughters how she was their "best friend" over and over again, and we now get the annual over-the-top Mother's Day tributes.

Children learn about empathy from experiencing it with their parents, and seeing it modeled at home. None of the Duggars ever learned that at home (J'chelle was their "trainer" and JB was their "umbrella" -- neither was really a parent). There are snippets from the show where J'chelle wanders off when a child is injured in an orchestra pit, or laughs at a child stuck in a stair rail. There are similar snippets of JB laughing at and mocking his children. They were never allowed outside of the home to learn from other adults either.

To me, the clearest sign that their statements were written by someone else, is that they display some small level of empathy for the victims of CSA. They don't believe that. It's very clear in Gothard's teachings that men are victims of temptation, and children must have done something wrong in order for abuse to occur.

Others have mentioned Anna's lack of empathy for the victims of CSA, and I think it's true. I think that the only victims she sees here are her headship, herself and her children. She grew up in this cult, too, and as the article states this is all: part of the ATI mentality that “everyone else is wrong and we are elite.” If she has any doubts about Joshua at all, she's surrounded by Duggars, Wallers, and Kellers who are reinforcing the Gothard principles every day.

The only victims that any of them see are the people walking in and out of that courtroom: Josh, Anna, Josh's parents and siblings, and family friends who are all being persecuted for their righteous belief in the correct Jesus. It's Gothard's life's work come to fruition before our eyes.

[RedDelicious]

9 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

Yes. Like, if I sat down on the sofa I would for sure fall asleep and I have an afternoon full of work to do. 

 

Same!!!!

[SMama]

NBC was the go to network for the Duggars to make announcements. I remember cringing when Meredith Viera jokingly (I hope?) asked the pedophile and Anna if they were going to name a daughter after her.

For at least a decade they gave the Duggars a platform to encourage irresponsible breeding without asking hard questions. MV was on 60 Minutes FFS! The Duggars got a pass on their horrible beliefs, misogyny, failure to provide a proper education, bullying tactics, and that horrific robo call. 

There were and still are many people of color missing and the media won’t give them two minutes of airtime. But two uneducated hicks have unprotected sex that results in pregnancy and it’s a reason for celebration, and mindless adulation.

It’s time for NBC to do some serious investigating of this family. The tale of how two monsters raised a monster. How they aided and abetted their monster for years while he abused four of their innocent daughters.  The network profited from the suffering of those kids, time to set things straight, time for the truth. 

I’m all in for Keith Morrison to narrate. Also, does anyone have a really long ladder? It’s going to take me quite some time to get off my high horse. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by SMama

[Lady Whistleup]

Jinger and Jeremy:

We are saddened for the victims of horrific child abuse. We are also saddened for Josh’s family, his wife and precious children.

We are saddened for the dishonor this has brought upon Christ’s name. Josh claims to be a Christian. When a professing follower of Jesus is exposed as a hypocrite, the response of many will be to challenge the integrity of Jesus himself. They’ll question the legitimacy of a Savior whose so-called followers privately delight in the sins they publicly denounce. This is why the Apostle Paul told religious hypocrites that "the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you” (Romans 2:24). For Josh, we fear for his soul.

Yet, amidst our sadness, there is gratitude. We are grateful that God is a God of justice who cares for the innocent and the helpless. And, of all the people in this world, he especially loves children, who are among the most vulnerable. This reality makes the existence of sex trafficking and child abuse one of the most horrific evils imaginable. It is an evil God hates.

Jesus welcomed and cared for children, seeing their helplessness as opportunity to protect, not exploit (Matthew 19:14). And his harshest indictment was reserved for those who caused them to stumble: “it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea” (Matthew 18:6).

For those who follow him, he requires the same compassion toward children: “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 18:10). The Apostle James put this care at the heart of true religion: “Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world” (James 1:27).

We are thankful to God for exposing Josh’s actions and to a legal system committed to protecting the innocent and punishing the guilty in this case. We are grateful for justice. We are praying for further justice, vindication, protection, and healing for all those who have been wronged.

[Dianaofthehunt]

^ shouldn’t they be thankful to the *jury*? 😠

[3 is enough]

21 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Me too. I'm in love with Keith Morrison. I want him to narrate my obituary.

I don't know how many people are aware of this but Keith Morrison is Canadian, and before joining Dateline he was on CTV and CBC for many years as an anchor and reporter.  His dramatic delivery style evolved over time, but he definitely did not speak that way while he was in Canada. 

I would love to have him narrate a Duggar episode on Dateline.

[Zella]

53 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

Is anyone else completely exhausted?

Is it too soon for a "I'm as tired as Jana watching someone else's kids" joke? 

But yeah I feel pretty spent after this week. 

[P2C2E]

Okay, I hate Jinger & Jeremy's statement the most.

I think it's because while Derick & Jill cited bible verses, they made sense in context and are a part of their faith. And were a very pointed condemnation of how things were handled.

The focus of Jinger & Jeremy's statement seems to be "don't let this stop you from being a christian".

Are they seriously still trying to evangelize right now?! Like, read the room!

They seem more concerned about Josh being a hypocrite to the faith than anything else and I just can't with them.

Edited December 10, 2021 by P2C2E

[Natalie68]

On 12/9/2021 at 11:16 AM, Showthyme said:

There is no training on how to look when your husband and father or your children has been found guilty of CSAM. Anyone knows that the judge expects you to keep any outward display to yourself.

To me, Josh Dugger being found guilty isn't anything to be happy about. I feel badly for their children, extended family members, victims, and anyone else impacted by this verdict. It is something that they will have to live with forever. I even feel bad for Anna. Her husband and father of her children has been found guilty of horrific acts. Her life and the life of her children will never be the same.

It is good to see justice but there is nothing to celebrate.

I am celebrating that asshole is off the streets so children far and wide are a bit more safe.

 

[CountryGirl]

4 hours ago, Readalot said:

I will give Derrick props for making the changes he has and supporting Jill. Actions matter. Time will tell if he continues to drop his unsavory traits. 

Same.

I will always believe that most people are capable of change. As long as there is life, there is hope.

Actions matter.

Consistency and follow through matter.

And yes, time will tell.

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, P2C2E said:

Okay, I hate Jinger & Jeremy's statement the most.

I think it's because while the Derick & Jill cited bible verses, they made sense in context and are a part of their faith. And were a very pointed condemnation of how things were handled.

The focus of Jinger & Jeremy's statement seems to be "don't let this stop you from being a christian".

Are they seriously still trying to evangelize right now?! Like, read the room!

They seem more concerned about Josh being a hypocrite to the faith than anything else and I just can't with them.

It reads like a freshman academic essay. I'm assuming Jeremy wrote it and they didn't consult a publicist this time around. 

It does make me wonder if the rumors about Jim Bob threats are true. There seems to be a lot going on under the surface, which muddles whatever the intended message is. But it's definitely not supportive of Josh. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Zella

[MissT]

25 minutes ago, SMama said:

NBC was the go to network for the Duggars to make announcements. I remember cringing when Meredith Viera jokingly (I hope?) asked the pedophile and Anna if they were going to name a daughter after her.

For at least a decade they gave the Duggars a platform to encourage irresponsible breeding without asking hard questions. MV was on 60 Minutes FFS! The Duggars got a pass on their horrible beliefs, misogyny, failure to provide a proper education, bullying tactics, and that horrific robo call. 

There were and still are many people of color missing and the media won’t give them two minutes or airtime. But two uneducated hicks have unprotected sex that results in pregnancy and it’s a reason for celebration, and mindless adulation.

It’s time for NBC to do some serious investigating of this family. The tale of how two monsters raised a monster. How they aided and abetted their monster for years while he abused four of their innocent daughters.  The network profited from the suffering of those kids, time to set things straight, time for the truth. 

I’m all in for Keith Morrison to narrate. Also, does anyone have a really long ladder? It’s going to take me quite some time to get off my high horse. 

I'm really surprised that TLC has not made any comments.   I remember back in the day I watched a lot of their programs, now... not so much.   They are responsible for continuing to allow these screwed up families to have a show.   The Gosslins, Duggers, Roloff's... they are all greedy.

Edited December 10, 2021 by MissT

[3 is enough]

4 minutes ago, P2C2E said:

Okay, I hate Jinger & Jeremy's statement the most.

I think it's because while Derick & Jill cited bible verses, they made sense in context and are a part of their faith. And were a very pointed condemnation of how things were handled.

The focus of Jinger & Jeremy's statement seems to be "don't let this stop you from being a christian".

Are they seriously still trying to evangelize right now?! Like, read the room!

They seem more concerned about Josh being a hypocrite to the faith than anything else and I just can't with them.

I bet it was handwritten with a fountain pen.  😉 

Of course he is more concerned about Josh being a hypocrite to the faith.  After all, he is on track to become a VERY IMPORTANT  PREACHER. Still, there was disgust expressed so I will take it. 

[Natalie68]

57 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Me too. I'm in love with Keith Morrison. I want him to narrate my obituary.

You too?

[Minivanessa]

6 minutes ago, MissT said:

I'm really surprised that TLC has not made any comments.   I remember back in the day I watched a lot of their programs, now... not so much.   They are responsible for continuing to allow these screwed up families to have a show.   The Gosslins, Duggers, Roloff's... they are all greedy.

TLC dumped the Duggars when the charges became public, or shortly afterwards. No connection anymore with TLC, nothing to see here, move right along . . . I'd be surprised if TLC says anything about the conviction.

[madpsych78]

I'm fully convinced that all of these statements are written by the in-laws themselves, particularly the sons-in-law. Maybe Jill looked the one over that Derick put out, but that's it. I don't think we're going to be seeing any statements by Duggar son/daughter-in-law combos. 

[SusanM]

10 minutes ago, Zella said:

But it's definitely not supportive of Josh. 

Yep.  I ignore all the evangelical stuff and hone in on this - I don't think even Jill and Derrick were as blunt in their condemnation of Josh.  There was no pussyfooting around - he did it.

Edited December 10, 2021 by SusannahM

[Churchhoney]

22 minutes ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

^ shouldn’t they be thankful to the *jury*? 😠

Well, Meeechelle and company never said much of a thankful nature to the large number of medical people who worked to save Josie either......It was all "God" "God" "God" "Jesus" Jesus" "Jesus." 

And, so far, Duggarling spouses seem to have similar approaches to things. Other people don't count for much in their worldviews, it seems. 

I think they're afraid that God and Jesus will roast them in an eternal firepit if they don't express enough gratitude. Whereas other people don't have access to the endless barbecue and the spit. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Churchhoney

[3 is enough]

2 hours ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

What of Jackson? He’s the duggar boy who never seems to be mentioned. Is he married, or still living at home; what? Anyone know?

Jackson is a very, very young 17.  I have long suspected he has some learning issues which, of course ,were left unaddressed.  I feel for him because the other boys always ignored him and when he got to a certain age he was not allowed to hang out with his younger sisters anymore.  He seems to be the odd boy out.

[Lady Whistleup]

Jury would have made a great name for baby #20.

[galaxygirl76]

9 minutes ago, MissT said:

I'm really surprised that TLC has not made any comments.   I remember back in the day I watched a lot of their programs, now... not so much.   They are responsible for continuing to allow these screwed up families to have a show.   The Gosslins, Duggers, Roloff's... they are all greedy.

I believe the Honey Boo Boo show was a mess too.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

TLC dumped the Duggars when the charges became public, or shortly afterwards.

What was weird, though, is they waited nearly a full 2 months after the arrest before cancelling them. I really do suspect that they were waiting to see what happened before making a decision. I've wondered if it becoming clear in private talks with the family that Josh intended to go to trial made them nope out. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Zella

[absnow54]

3 minutes ago, SusannahM said:

Yep.  I ignore all the evangelical stuff and hone in on this - I don't think even Jill and Derrick were as blunt in their condemnation of Josh.  There was no pussyfooting around - he did it.

I feel like the Vuolos went most scorched earth on him. 

[GeeGolly]

10 minutes ago, Zella said:

What was weird, though, is they waited nearly a full 2 months after the arrest before cancelling them. I really do suspect that they were waiting to see what happened before making a decision. I've wondered if it becoming clear in private talks with the family that Josh intended to go to trial made them nope out. 

I kind of felt they were weighing the two sides - the haters of JB and M and the supporters of the girls. Support as in, the girls shouldn't lose their jobs because their brother is scum. And of course I'm sure they were also factoring in the already declining viewership.

Edited December 10, 2021 by GeeGolly

[absnow54]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

I kind of felt they were weighing the two sides - the haters of JB and M and the supporters of the girls. Support as in, the girls shouldn't lose their jobs because their brother is scum. And of course I'm sure they factoring in the declining viewership.

I’m sure they debated the potential ratings boost, the story would provide, but someone had enough of a soul left to realize how awful that was. 

[emmawoodhouse]

17 minutes ago, MissT said:

I'm really surprised that TLC has not made any comments.   I remember back in the day I watched a lot of their programs, now... not so much.   They are responsible for continuing to allow these screwed up families to have a show.   The Gosslins, Duggers, Roloff's... they are all greedy.

TLC has scrubbed Counting On from their website. It's still available on their YouTube channel, though. For now, at any rate.

[galaxygirl76]

There was weird thing happening to the show before they finally got canceled, remember that odd extra religion heavy Easter special they had not long before the inmate was arrested?

[ginger90]

Sounds like Jinger and Jeremy don’t see any validity in an appeal.

Good.

[quarks]

9 minutes ago, Zella said:

What was weird, though, is they waited nearly a full 2 months after the arrest before cancelling them. I really do suspect that they were waiting to see what happened before making a decision. I've wondered if it becoming clear in private talks with the family that Josh intended to go to trial made them nope out. 

That, possibly, and also waiting to hear from their new incoming lords at WarnerMedia, and working out whatever was going to be happening with Warner Bros Discovery.

 

[thehorseofpower]

4 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I feel like the Vuolos went most scorched earth on him. 

I do, too. I'm actually shocked they were so bluntly critical of him and clearly believe he did it - no ambiguity there. Yes, it was filled with Bible quotes and a lot of Jesus, but that's who they are. And they are also correct about things like this making Christianity unappealing to anyone on the fence. Such blatant hypocrisy from Josh and the whole Duggar family, really, is a huge turn-off against ever living or believing as they do.

[all fall down]

I'm trying to refresh my memory of which siblings showed up at the trial:

Jana, Joy, Jill, Justin for sure

Jessa - reported but unconfirmed

Which other brother was it? Jason or Jed? Jer?

I know they got them mixed up so now I'm forgetting which was accurate. 

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by christine falls

[absnow54]

4 minutes ago, christine falls said:

Which other brother was it? Jason or Jed? Jer?

Jason (often misidentified as Jed) a couple of days and James once. 

[galaxygirl76]

Now we know that Jana was really there to do research for her own court date. Aw, look at you girl, courting and dating!

[Gemma Violet]

50 minutes ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

^ shouldn’t they be thankful to the *jury*? 😠

I think the jury is included here (bolding mine):

Quote

We are thankful to God for exposing Josh’s actions and to a legal system committed to protecting the innocent and punishing the guilty in this case.

 

[iwantcookies]

Maybe Josh was smiling because he knew Jana got arrested? 

[Lukeysboat]

56 minutes ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

 

^ shouldn’t they be thankful to the *jury*? 😠

 

They said they are thankful for the legal system and grateful for justice. To me that encompasses the jury. 

[iwantcookies]

There goes Anna’s free nanny for life ! 
 

Seriously who will raise the M kids? Anna isn’t going to do it alone.

[madpsych78]

1 minute ago, iwantcookies said:

There goes Anna’s free nanny for life ! 
 

Seriously who will raise the M kids? Anna isn’t going to do it alone.

Johannah will probably step up to the plate. Maybe Jenni as well.

[BigBingerBro]

The smirk in the latest SMug-shot is really odd.  I wonder if Pest actually hated his life with Anna so much that the thought of going to jail for a while is actually appealing to him?  He's going to be exposed to so much than he was in Jesus-jail.  

[babyhouseman]

Yes, TLC did wait a bit unitil they canceled the show. They canceled Here Comes Honey Boo Boo  after it was discovered the mother was hanging out with a sex offender. The two families couldn't be more different. While the Duggars try to be prim and proper, the Boo Boos are nasty rednecks who are proud of it. The Boo Boos got a show on another network. I haven't watched it, but I think it was more dysfunction. I'm saying Boo Boo because I can't remember their last name, and it was a family with stepchildren so people had different last names.

[BigBingerBro]

ALL ALONE Josh Duggar is being held in solitary confinement in jail ‘for his own safety’ after child pornography conviction

[madpsych78]

Reading about some of the other things that happened at that jail. Yikes.

[debbie311]

1 hour ago, P2C2E said:

 

Are they seriously still trying to evangelize right now?! Like, read the room!

They seem more concerned about Josh being a hypocrite to the faith than anything else and I just can't with them.

My past experience with evangelicals?  The NEVER stop evangelizing. It's like their mission, I guess.

[hathorlive]

On 12/9/2021 at 6:01 PM, ginger90 said:

Today was difficult for our family.  Our hearts go out to the victims of child abuse or any kind of exploitation.  We are thankful for the hard work of law enforcement, including investigators, forensic analysts, prosecutors, and all others involved who save kids and hold accountable those responsible for their abuse. 

Nobody is above the law.  It applies equally to everybody, no matter your wealth, status, associations, gender, race, or any other factor.  Today, the people of the Western District of Arkansas made that clear in their verdict.  As a Christian, we believe we are all equal at the foot of the cross, and, likewise, we are all equal under the law.  Jesus warned his disciples, “…eware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.  Nothing is covered up that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known.  Therefore, whatever you have said in the dark shall be heard in the light, and what you have whispered in private rooms shall be proclaimed on the housetops.” (Luke 12:1-3).   

Moreover, “[h]e who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the Lord.” (Proverbs 17:15).  We have been lied to so much that we wanted to hear the evidence for ourselves in court.  After seeing all the evidence as it was presented, we believe that the jury reached a just verdict today, consistent with the truth beyond a reasonable doubt.

Josh’s actions have rippled far beyond the epicenter of the offense itself.  Children have scars, but his family is also suffering the fallout of his actions.  Our hearts are sensitive to the pains Josh’s wife, Anna, and their seven children have already endured and will continue to process in the future.  This trial has felt more like a funeral than anything else.  Josh’s family has a long road ahead.  We stand with them, we are praying for them, and we will seek to support them however we can during this dark time.         

It's sad to see such a "good Christian Family" laid low by their own scripture.  Good job, Derrick.  It was pointed, honest and empathic.  And I'm sure you had to edit out all the parts where you called Josh a scumbag.  Your restraint impresses me.

[sue450]

1 hour ago, galaxygirl76 said:

Now we know that Jana was really there to do research for her own court date. Aw, look at you girl, courting and dating!

yep  jana has a court date for jan 6   charged with endangering a minor  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10297817/Jana-Duggar-31-charged-endangering-welfare-child.html

[graefin]

One of the government witnesses did an AMA that's kind of interesting: