Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[hathorlive]

1 minute ago, ginger90 said:

I would hope it’s because children are being exploited and harmed, physically and mentally.

Of course that is the main reason. But the Justice department, Interpol, and nearly every country understands that viewing CP leads to more children being hurt, either by a person who wants to experience that act or people hurting kids to provide new "content".  Josh didn't escalate to hurting new victims, he started by creating new victims.

 

[crazy8s]

josh's Wholesale Motorcars is held by an llc named Fivestone Group llc so never incorporated.

Josh nor any Duggar is ever listed, though the TTH address is used as the principal address. It has Western Ridge Financial llc as Manager (same company that is on all of Anna's llcs), Travis Story as incorporator/organizer and registered agent, then we have faithful Jimmy Burns - tax preparer for all duggar financial llc shenanegans.

Edited November 4, 2021 by crazy8s

[MrsClaus]

I missed it.  Who was saying about the business being incorporated?

[Rootbeer]

24 minutes ago, MrsClaus said:

I missed it.  Who was saying about the business being incorporated?

No one, really.  It was part of a discussion on Josh' upcoming trial.  The defense is trying to keep some evidence out of the trial claiming that it was not Josh' personal info, but belonged to the used car business he ran and therefore, couldn't be used against him.  One of our more legally savvy posters said that would probably not work unless the car business was a registered corporation, which it is not.  So, we're going to have to wait and see what the judge thinks.

[quarks]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I think they might want to include the statement Josh made during the Ashley Madison scandal.

From the defense motion:

"The statement attributed to Duggar included, “[w]hile espousing faith and family values, I have secretly over the last several years been viewing pornography on the internet and this became a secret addiction and I became unfaithful to my wife.” Discovery disclosed by the Government in this case reveals that investigative agents inquired about such allegations from certain witnesses."

This appears to be the statement that the government wants admitted as evidence. The defense is arguing that this is all irrelevant to the specific crimes Josh is currently charged with. They add that since adultery and adult porn aren't crimes, but may be prejudicial to the jury, this statement should be excluded. 

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

The Duggars will ignore those facts.  They'll focus on the fact that there are 3 witnesses who could be the guilty ones.

 

But this isn't a fact. It's not even close to a fact. It's an outright lie.

The facts are:

Witness 1  (William Mize) - aka the one who admitted to watching adult porn on his phone - never worked at the car lot, had no access to the computer/password, and was at a Walmart a good 100 miles away at the time of the alleged crime.

This has been verified by investigators - presumably through security footage/receipts, which can easily be subpoenaed if necessary.

Witness 2 (Joshua Williams) was in jail during the time of the alleged crime, with no internet access. This has been verified/stipulated to by everyone, including Josh's attorneys. 

I think it's still possible that Joshua Williams may be called to the stand, since Williams is also the former employee who told the government about the Covenant Eyes program and Josh's porn addiction, and that the car lot internet was password protected, but even the defense has agreed/stipulated that Joshua Williams could not have done this particular crime, however guilty he's been of other crimes. So Williams may not even testify.

Witness 3 (Randall Berry) didn't start working at the car lot until weeks after the time of the alleged crime. In addition to this, Randall Berry earlier testified that he had no access to the computer or the internet on the car lot, and was very inexperienced with computers and did not have social media accounts. 

And according to the government's latest motion, Randall Berry is now working for Jed! over at the other car lot. I mean, I suppose that Jed! could be playing a deep game here and hiring, out of gratitude, someone who downloaded CSA and then framed Josh for it, leading to Josh getting arrested more or less during Jed!'s honeymoon, but this seems - what's the word - implausible. 

And that's it.

The defense has told the government that they don't have any other alibi witnesses.

20 minutes ago, MrsClaus said:

I missed it.  Who was saying about the business being incorporated?

This is the defense. They are apparently requesting that some of the evidence be admitted as evidence about the corporation/LLC associated with the car lot, and not evidence about Josh. 

[GeeGolly]

38 minutes ago, quarks said:

From the defense motion:

"The statement attributed to Duggar included, “[w]hile espousing faith and family values, I have secretly over the last several years been viewing pornography on the internet and this became a secret addiction and I became unfaithful to my wife.” Discovery disclosed by the Government in this case reveals that investigative agents inquired about such allegations from certain witnesses."

This appears to be the statement that the government wants admitted as evidence. The defense is arguing that this is all irrelevant to the specific crimes Josh is currently charged with. They add that since adultery and adult porn aren't crimes, but may be prejudicial to the jury, this statement should be excluded. 

But this isn't a fact. It's not even close to a fact. It's an outright lie.

Poor choice of words on my part.

The Duggars (not me) are going to hang their hats on anything they can spin in their favor. I can see them spinning this so often, it will become fact for them and anyone else who wants it to be.

Lets face it, there are well informed, educated folks who think OJ is innocent. They'll be folks who think Josh is innocent too.

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, quarks said:

From the defense motion:

"The statement attributed to Duggar included, “[w]hile espousing faith and family values, I have secretly over the last several years been viewing pornography on the internet and this became a secret addiction and I became unfaithful to my wife.” Discovery disclosed by the Government in this case reveals that investigative agents inquired about such allegations from certain witnesses."

This appears to be the statement that the government wants admitted as evidence. The defense is arguing that this is all irrelevant to the specific crimes Josh is currently charged with. They add that since adultery and adult porn aren't crimes, but may be prejudicial to the jury, this statement should be excluded. 

But this isn't a fact. It's not even close to a fact. It's an outright lie.

The facts are:

Witness 1  (William Mize) - aka the one who admitted to watching adult porn on his phone - never worked at the car lot, had no access to the computer/password, and was at a Walmart a good 100 miles away at the time of the alleged crime.

This has been verified by investigators - presumably through security footage/receipts, which can easily be subpoenaed if necessary.

Witness 2 (Joshua Williams) was in jail during the time of the alleged crime, with no internet access. This has been verified/stipulated to by everyone, including Josh's attorneys. 

I think it's still possible that Joshua Williams may be called to the stand, since Williams is also the former employee who told the government about the Covenant Eyes program and Josh's porn addiction, and that the car lot internet was password protected, but even the defense has agreed/stipulated that Joshua Williams could not have done this particular crime, however guilty he's been of other crimes. So Williams may not even testify.

Witness 3 (Randall Berry) didn't start working at the car lot until weeks after the time of the alleged crime. In addition to this, Randall Berry earlier testified that he had no access to the computer or the internet on the car lot, and was very inexperienced with computers and did not have social media accounts. 

And according to the government's latest motion, Randall Berry is now working for Jed! over at the other car lot. I mean, I suppose that Jed! could be playing a deep game here and hiring, out of gratitude, someone who downloaded CSA and then framed Josh for it, leading to Josh getting arrested more or less during Jed!'s honeymoon, but this seems - what's the word - implausible. 

And that's it.

The defense has told the government that they don't have any other alibi witnesses.

This is the defense. They are apparently requesting that some of the evidence be admitted as evidence about the corporation/LLC associated with the car lot, and not evidence about Josh. 

Are these car lots so busy that Josh and Jed! need to hire additional employees??

[quarks]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Poor choice of words on my part.

The Duggars (not me) are going to hang their hats on anything they can spin in their favor. I can see them spinning this so often, it will become fact for them and anyone else who wants it to be.

Lets face it, there are well informed, educated folks who think OJ is innocent. They'll be folks who think Josh is innocent too.

A few months ago I had similar concerns. But right now, not so much - partly because the attempt to blame other people has failed spectacularly, to the point where I've gone from arguing that Josh's attorneys have done a competent job here, to wondering if Josh Duggar and Joshua Williams now have grounds for lodging an ethics complaint with the Arkansas bar and/or arguing that they had insufficient counsel.

But mostly because I don't see anyone other than Josh and his attorneys and - very arguably - Jim Bob and Michelle in their single statement back in May trying to spin this. 

Everyone else has:  

1. Made statements that make no attempt to implicate other people and strongly indicate that they think Josh is guilty. (Jinger/Jeremy, Jill/Derrick, Joy/Austin, Jessa/Ben, Amy)

2. Actually hired one of these supposed "suspects" after the car raid and continued to employ this person after Josh's arrest and after the defense attempted to suggest that this person could have downloaded the CSA. (Jed!)

3. Kept their mouths shut about Josh on social media (Anna, the rest of the Duggars/Duggarlings, the Kellers, the other inlaws and even JillRod who otherwise doesn't seem to be able to be keep quiet about anything.)

This could all change after the trial, of course, but for right now, at least, the "it was someone else!" doesn't seem to be gaining a lot of traction, even with the Duggarlings.

Edited November 4, 2021 by quarks

[merylinkid]

4 hours ago, crazy8s said:

josh's Wholesale Motorcars is held by an llc named Fivestone Group llc so never incorporated.

Josh nor any Duggar is ever listed, though the TTH address is used as the principal address. It has Western Ridge Financial llc as Manager (same company that is on all of Anna's llcs), Travis Story as incorporator/organizer and registered agent, then we have faithful Jimmy Burns - tax preparer for all duggar financial llc shenanegans.

Business records do not require being incorporated.   It's just a "business record kept in the ordinary course of business."   So any business, like a sole proprietorship can have their records authenticated through a business records affidavit instead of having someone actually come to court and say "yep them's the business records."    So if Joe Accountant keeps invoices of everything he billed to his clients, those could be business records.   but if he sometimes keeps the wills of his clients, those probably would not be.   

Also, LLC stands for Limited Liability Corporation so it is incorporated, just with limited liability for certain corporate members.   

[crazy8s]

point taken

but Josh is not listed at all as part of the "corporation" 

it seems Josh lost a court case on the property deed thing that was also an llc registered under good old travis story and the accountant. (that llc has since shifted into anna's name with travis story) so being a limited liability corporation did save him on that one either

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

Are these car lots so busy that Josh and Jed! need to hire additional employees??

No, but Josh, at least, is so lazy that, if there weren't additional employees, nothing at all would get done other than downloading images of children being sexually abused,  which doesn't seem likely to turn a profit.

[sue450]

On 10/31/2021 at 12:14 PM, Dianaofthehunt said:

What? This isn’t Jill. Haven’t we seen her in jeans and other normal clothes? I thought she and the not-yet attorney do a “lite”-er version of fundy. If I’m on the wrong track, put me right.

they are talking about s

uper fundie jill rodriguez   whose daghter nuri married one of annas brothers and nuri just gave birth t her first baby....not taking about jill  duggar

Edited November 4, 2021 by sue450

[sue450]

On 10/31/2021 at 4:31 PM, CandyCaneTree said:

Not better but the fundies consider all points the same. 

they follow bill Gothard..who told a woman he groomed  whose father sexually molested her as a child  "thank your father because he made you spiritually stronger"  so they don't really consider it a big deal

[Quilt Fairy]

I was very surprised at the evidence exceptions that are made in cases of child abuse and/or CSAM.  I assumed that mention of Josh's uncharged molestation of his sisters might be allowed during sentencing if he was found guilty, but apparently there is accepted precedent that uncharged, decades-old crimes can be admitted in evidence during the trial since they show a pattern of conduct that is specific to child abusers/CSAM.  

Edited November 4, 2021 by Quilt Fairy

[hathorlive]

2 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Business records do not require being incorporated.   It's just a "business record kept in the ordinary course of business."   So any business, like a sole proprietorship can have their records authenticated through a business records affidavit instead of having someone actually come to court and say "yep them's the business records."    So if Joe Accountant keeps invoices of everything he billed to his clients, those could be business records.   but if he sometimes keeps the wills of his clients, those probably would not be.   

Also, LLC stands for Limited Liability Corporation so it is incorporated, just with limited liability for certain corporate members.   

Thank you for the explanation.  This is not my field and you explained it so well.

[GeeGolly]

@quarks, I'm not sure any Duggar is allowing themselves to contemplate Josh's guilt or innocence at this point, except maybe Anna who likely only believes he is innocent, for self preservation. 

My point is, if Josh is found guilty, I don't think JB, M, Anna and maybe a couple of siblings will just up and agree. As for public acknowledgment, I have no idea what they will say, if anything, other than maybe a blanket statement asking for privacy. But within their circles, I feel pretty sure they'll argue his was wrongly accused and wrongly convicted.

 

[MrsClaus]

Thank you for the explanation.   I was just thinking that JB wouldn't want his business affairs scrutinized to much.

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

@quarks, I'm not sure any Duggar is allowing themselves to contemplate Josh's guilt or innocence at this point, except maybe Anna who likely only believes he is innocent, for self preservation. 

My point is, if Josh is found guilty, I don't think JB, M, Anna and maybe a couple of siblings will just up and agree. As for public acknowledgment, I have no idea what they will say, if anything, other than maybe a blanket statement asking for privacy. But within their circles, I feel pretty sure they'll argue his was wrongly accused and wrongly convicted.

 

LOL at “asking for privacy.” Can’t have it both ways.

[CandyCaneTree]

Smuggar stick a fork in your body because you are done. 

[Dianaofthehunt]

28 minutes ago, CandyCaneTree said:

Smuggar stick a fork in your body because you are done. 

There ought to be a  fingers-crossed “reaction” for posts such as this one.

[quarks]

24 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

@quarks, I'm not sure any Duggar is allowing themselves to contemplate Josh's guilt or innocence at this point, except maybe Anna who likely only believes he is innocent, for self preservation. 

My point is, if Josh is found guilty, I don't think JB, M, Anna and maybe a couple of siblings will just up and agree. As for public acknowledgment, I have no idea what they will say, if anything, other than maybe a blanket statement asking for privacy. But within their circles, I feel pretty sure they'll argue his was wrongly accused and wrongly convicted.

 

You could very well be right - especially about Anna. 

But even within their circles, JB and Michelle haven't been denying Josh's guilt; they've just been downplaying it. It's not at all clear what they told the Kellers and Anna, for example, but they did tell them something. Same with their church members. 

In 2015,  JB, Michelle, Jill and Jessa all admitted, on national television, that Josh was guilty. They downplayed it, but they admitted it. A few months later, with the Ashley Madison stuff, they again admitted on their Facebook page that Josh was guilty. Once again, they downplayed it, but they admitted to it.

So my guess is that if Josh is convicted, they'll be pretty much doing the same thing again - downplaying it, but admitting to it. 

[Cinnabon]

6 minutes ago, quarks said:

You could very well be right - especially about Anna. 

But even within their circles, JB and Michelle haven't been denying Josh's guilt; they've just been downplaying it. It's not at all clear what they told the Kellers and Anna, for example, but they did tell them something. Same with their church members. 

In 2015,  JB, Michelle, Jill and Jessa all admitted, on national television, that Josh was guilty. They downplayed it, but they admitted it. A few months later, with the Ashley Madison stuff, they again admitted on their Facebook page that Josh was guilty. Once again, they downplayed it, but they admitted to it.

So my guess is that if Josh is convicted, they'll be pretty much doing the same thing again - downplaying it, but admitting to it. 

You don’t think JB has been denying Josh’s guilt in this case? He’s spending a fortune to for someone that admits Josh’s guilt here.

[GeeGolly]

22 minutes ago, quarks said:

You could very well be right - especially about Anna. 

But even within their circles, JB and Michelle haven't been denying Josh's guilt; they've just been downplaying it. It's not at all clear what they told the Kellers and Anna, for example, but they did tell them something. Same with their church members. 

In 2015,  JB, Michelle, Jill and Jessa all admitted, on national television, that Josh was guilty. They downplayed it, but they admitted it. A few months later, with the Ashley Madison stuff, they again admitted on their Facebook page that Josh was guilty. Once again, they downplayed it, but they admitted to it.

So my guess is that if Josh is convicted, they'll be pretty much doing the same thing again - downplaying it, but admitting to it. 

Interesting angle. Has there been some scoop about what the talk is among the Duggar/Fundy circle?

Even with all the talk of every sin being the same, I have no doubt every Duggar knows how egregious these charges are. Admitting your teen son "touched" young females, and your adult son was looking to cheat, is very different than admitting your son was looking at CSA. Maybe in their world, God forgives all sins the same, but society does not.

I think they'll claim Josh is innocent, even if in their hearts they know he's guilty.

[emmawoodhouse]

I dunno. Despite the piles of evidence against him, I believe Boobchelle and Anna are in denial. However, I bet that several of Smuggar's adult siblings want him behind bars. Thinking a bit on this...does he have relationships with ANY of his siblings now? Hell, I think things were strained with most of them even before the arrest brought the CSA to light.

[Absolom]

I expect several of the non-Duggar spouses are hoping for a very, very long prison sentence so they won't have to deal with the "Josh issue" with their children for years ahead.  Some of his siblings may agree.  

[quarks]

23 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

You don’t think JB has been denying Josh’s guilt in this case? He’s spending a fortune to for someone that admits Josh’s guilt here.

Is he?

I mean, we've all been assuming that - me included. But we don't know.

Josh did have various real estate assets prior to his arrest - yeah, almost certainly paid for by money from JB (which I personally would argue that Josh earned through appearances on 19 Kids and Counting), but that's a separate issue. I think it's equally possible that JB has told Josh that those assets have to be drained first, before JB pays anything.

Meanwhile, far from denying Josh's guilt, JB has made one official public statement which notably did not say that Josh was innocent.

And he apparently didn't say this to the Rebers, either. Assuming they told the truth in their sworn testimony, JB contacted them and asked them to be the legal guardians, once again downplaying the seriousness of the allegations. He also noted that Mr. Reber's work in prison ministries - presumably with guilty people - was why Mr. Reber would be a good guardian. Nothing about Josh being innocent - at least, not in the sworn testimony we have.

 

3 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I dunno. Despite the piles of evidence against him, I believe Boobchelle and Anna are in denial. However, I bet that several of Smuggar's adult siblings want him behind bars. Thinking a bit on this...does he have relationships with ANY of his siblings now? Hell, I think things were strained with most of them even before the arrest brought the CSA to light.

I'd agree on the adult siblings. 

At the very least, they don't seem to have any interest in coming to the courtroom to support him. Apparently, only Amy and Jill attended the initial hearing, and only Anna was seen at the more recent hearing. 

And we're not talking about terribly busy people here. They seem to have plenty of time to go on vacations and whatever. And most of them live nearby. 

[Rootbeer]

40 minutes ago, quarks said:

Josh's guilt, JB has made one official public statement which notably did not say that Josh was innocent.

I think that, while JB anyway, might believe that Josh did break the law; just as he did when Josh was a teen, JB is able to rationalize it using their convoluted logic. Since Josh ostensibly worships the correct Jesus, he could not possibly have done what he did except for Satan building another fortress in his heart.  That, in the end, it wasn't the 'real' Josh who downloaded those images, that demonic forces, trying to lead Josh and the rest of the family away from their faith by trickery, were really responsible. JB understands that this sort of logic isn't going to fly in court, but I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't able to use it to justify spending a fortune defending Josh in hopes of minimizing any civil punishment.  Same as he did when Josh molested 5 young girls.  

I think Michelle and Anna are even more on board with this line of thinking.  It's not Josh' fault, not really, that the devil saw how righteous and godly they all were and set about to cause their downfall.  People of faith are constantly being persecuted and they've twisted this around to pretend that Josh' crimes are somehow a test of faith and not truly the heinous acts they actually are.

The delusion runs deep in this bunch.

Meanwhile, I think Josh has been a complete a**hole to his siblings for so long, that none of them are buying this line of thinking although I expect many of them will be keeping those thoughts to themselves because they are beholden to their parental units for most if not all of their livelihoods.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Rootbeer

[hathorlive]

2 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I dunno. Despite the piles of evidence against him, I believe Boobchelle and Anna are in denial. However, I bet that several of Smuggar's adult siblings want him behind bars. Thinking a bit on this...does he have relationships with ANY of his siblings now? Hell, I think things were strained with most of them even before the arrest brought the CSA to light.

Hey Jill, Jill Dillard.  If you want to secure funding for your sons' college tuition, suggest to JB that you need to go talk to the AUSA.  I bet you could get a check out of him real fast.

Edited November 5, 2021 by hathorlive
' matter

[Zella]

FWIW I wouldn't necessarily consider Josh's siblings attending the hearings as a sign of support unless it was explicitly stated as such by them. Like with Jill and Amy attending the remote hearing--I'm pretty sure that was not to support him and rather instead because they wanted to hear directly what he was being charged with. I certainly have my issues with Amy, but I don't doubt that she does find Josh pretty revolting. I'd be surprised if anyone but Anna or his parents are actually in court from the Duggar camp if this goes to trial. But if that's not the case, short of the siblings making a statement, I wouldn't personally read too much into their presence in court. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Zella

[emmawoodhouse]

WOACB announced that she's looking into travel and accommodations to cover the trial. That would be hot mess express. 😂

[SMama]

1 minute ago, emmawoodhouse said:

WOACB announced that she's looking into travel and accommodations to cover the trial. That would be hot mess express. 😂

I thought she had a child with autism. Shouldn’t she be home?

Why would anyone want trial coverage from a vlogger? 

Where does she live? 

[emmawoodhouse]

1 minute ago, SMama said:

I thought she had a child with autism. Shouldn’t she be home?

Why would anyone want trial coverage from a vlogger? 

Where does she live? 

Her husband doesn't work, so he can stay with the boy. 

Pretty sure she lives in Minnesota.

[SMama]

1 minute ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Her husband doesn't work, so he can stay with the boy. 

Pretty sure she lives in Minnesota.

Thank you. So the family income comes from her vlogging? Weird.

I have written too many court reports on sexual abuse and conducted too many forensic interviews with victims. Why would anyone want to sit through that type of evidence is beyond me. It’s why I quit when SBaby came home. Volderjosh is scum, no need to cover the trial to know that. 

[emmawoodhouse]

Just now, SMama said:

Thank you. So the family income comes from her vlogging? Weird.

I have written too many court reports on sexual abuse and conducted too many forensic interviews with victims. Why would anyone want to sit through that type of evidence is beyond me. It’s why I quit when SBaby came home. Volderjosh is scum, no need to cover the trial to know that. 

And she's obviously not going to be unbiased. She's still convinced that Smuggar could get 40 years. 

[CandyCaneTree]

3 hours ago, SMama said:

I thought she had a child with autism. Shouldn’t she be home?

Why would anyone want trial coverage from a vlogger? 

Where does she live? 

Because in her mind she is the only one who will get the court proceedings correct. She also claimed that Amy wants her there. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by CandyCaneTree

[GeeGolly]

I don't get Amy. She has 18 other cousins, surely she must know that no matter what they think about Josh, her behaviors make this situation worse. Its almost like she is getting some type of joy out of this. I want Josh to be punished, but I'd certainly rather he didn't harm children by accessing CSA to begin with. I'm not fond of any of the Duggar 18, JB, M or Anna, but I certainly wish they didn't have to live through this.

And now Amy wants a gossip vlogger to attend the trial? Someone who makes a living publicly talking shit about reality TV families, including Amy's extended family. Amy seems hellbent on some type of revenge against the Duggars. But for what? Making it on reality TV, where Amy tried so hard and failed?

She claims Josh never harmed her and she's heard her cousins who were harmed, say they forgave him. And even if they haven't truly forgiven Josh, the revenge (if wanted) would be theirs to get, not Amy's.

Amy's public digs at Josh don't highlight what scum he is, they highlight who Amy is.

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't get Amy. She has 18 other cousins, surely she must know that no matter what they think about Josh, her behaviors make this situation worse. Its almost like she is getting some type of joy out of this. I want Josh to be punished, but I'd certainly rather he didn't harm children by accessing CSA to begin with. I'm not fond of any of the Duggar 18, JB, M or Anna, but I certainly wish they didn't have to live through this.

And now Amy wants a gossip vlogger to attend the trial? Someone who makes a living publicly talking shit about reality TV families, including Amy's extended family. Amy seems hellbent on some type of revenge against the Duggars. But for what? Making it on reality TV, where Amy tried so hard and failed?

She claims Josh never harmed her and she's heard her cousins who were harmed, say they forgave him. And even if they haven't truly forgiven Josh, the revenge (if wanted) would be theirs to get, not Amy's.

Amy's public digs at Josh don't highlight what scum he is, they highlight who Amy is.

I wonder whether this isn't just another of Amy's endless attempts to angle some connection to the Duggars to get attention for herself.

I mean, in her own online presentation of herself, she's always invented and pushed some connection to them -- she's been a Duggar, she's been tight with the Duggars, she's been a "rebel" Duggar.....Always something, always emphasizing her connection. So maybe now she's trying out "a wronged and vengeful Duggar." ..... 

I don't know how accurate any of these Amy personas ever were -- certainly the "rebel Duggar" thing was complete bullshit -- and I doubt she's actually thought any of this through. Seems to me she's just always seen a pile of "fame' kind of near her and kept scrambling around trying to get some of it to rub off on herself. She's never seemed to care what variety of fame rubbed off. She's just always craved it. So now we've got infamy -- and she wants to get near that, too. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Rootbeer]

5 hours ago, CandyCaneTree said:

Because in her mind she is the only one who will get the court proceedings correct. She also claimed that Amy wants her there. 

I think she also feels it will be a great way to get extra hits on her site and attract new followers.  She probably will be setting up a Go Fund Me soon to raise money to pay for her trip.

The fact that Amy seemingly supports her and leaks information to her only serves to confirm that Amy isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

I think its fine that Amy thinks Josh is slime, I think she's right about that.  But, she needs to stop picking at that scab, it makes her look like an opportunist, taking advantage of her cousin's criminal activity to stay relevant and generate hits.  Shut up, Amy, just shut up.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Rootbeer

[SMama]

Do we know Amy asked WOACB to be there? I’m no Amy fan but I would take WOAC’s statement with a ton of salt.

JRod and fam crashed a funeral service insisting the deceased had requested them to sing at the funeral. It was news to the family. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by SMama

[Minivanessa]

I wouldn't believe WOACB about anything including what time it is and if it's sunny or raining outside. It's a complete mystery to me how someone as ill-informed and mediocre as that woman is, can become a presence on YouTube.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

Do we know Amy asked WOACB to be there? I’m no Amy fan but I would take WOAC’s statement with a ton of salt.

JRod and fam crashed a funeral service insisting the deceased had requested them to sing at the funeral. It was news to the family. 

Katie seems the type who willfully misinterprets phrases like "next time you're in town, we should get a drink" into "Amy wants me to come and visit her."  

[GeeGolly]

Even if Crystal Balls is lying about Amy asking her to come to the trial, Amy has done enough on her own to look like a complete asshole in regard to this latest scandal.

[Boston]

Did we find out the name of the 7th Smuggar (not making fun of the kids - just the parents).  Was the name MYDADDYISAPEDOPHILE?

Edited November 5, 2021 by Boston

[libgirl2]

15 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

You don’t think JB has been denying Josh’s guilt in this case? He’s spending a fortune to for someone that admits Josh’s guilt here.

I think he is trying to keep his son from serving jail time or a lot of jail time. 

[CandyCaneTree]

33 minutes ago, Boston said:

Did we find out the name of the 7th Smuggar (not making fun of the kids - just the parents).  Was the name MYDADDYISAPEDOPHILE?

SmugAnna probably named her Mystery .

[SMama]

Let’s not forget JB has been picking at the scab of Deanna’s out of wedlock child for decades. I never understood how part of JB’s testimony is about how Deanna having a child out of wedlock caused her problems throughout her life. Did JB ever think about Deanna’s and Amy’s feelings? He used that worn trope on their last big trip to Australia and it is out there forever.
 

The Duggars were also condescending about Amy being different but they were Godly and accepted her. Amy was such a bad influence she could only visit her cousins under supervision. Very high and mighty of JB and M when they were enabling their pedophile son.

I would be full of resentment if I was Amy, probably made worst by biting her tongue for her grandma’s sake. Too bad JB didn’t spare his mother hearing how sinful her first born was. Yes, Amy is a fame whore, just like her uncle. JB has not only exploited his children for fame and money, but also his sister, and niece. None of those exploited were asked for their consent. 

[CandyCaneTree]

1 hour ago, Boston said:

Did we find out the name of the 7th Smuggar (not making fun of the kids - just the parents).  Was the name MYDADDYISAPEDOPHILE?

My get out of jail free card.

[Churchhoney]

3 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I wouldn't believe WOACB about anything including what time it is and if it's sunny or raining outside. It's a complete mystery to me how someone as ill-informed and mediocre as that woman is, can become a presence on YouTube.

I think most people make a lot of judgments based on whether they feel comfortable with somebody......so they're picking favorites by people they feel are like them in some way.....sometimes that's just somebody who's pretending to be like them......somebody who makes them feel smart because the info purveyor seems to share their feelings. ... etc. 

Good information doesn't seem to be a high-value item just about anywhere when it comes to the average human......Especially when we're talking about information that isn't a matter of actual immediate life and death for the info consumer -- and, in fact, even in cases where it is.......Case in point -- ivermectin, etc. 

People really aren't committed to good information when it comes to gossip! 

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Churchhoney

[lascuba]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Even if Crystal Balls is lying about Amy asking her to come to the trial, Amy has done enough on her own to look like a complete asshole in regard to this latest scandal.

And THAT is why I never believed that NDA story. She's been talking shit for years while still playing at happy families, and now all of a sudden she signed an NDA and she had to cancel her interview with WOACB because somehow JB got wind of it? Yeah, right.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

Let’s not forget JB has been picking at the scab of Deanna’s out of wedlock child for decades. I never understood how part of JB’s testimony is about how Deanna having a child out of wedlock 

Seems like JB's and Meeechelle's "testimonies" are both kind of heavy on the sins of others. JB's father, JB's sister, the mean kids at JB's school, the Meeechelle neighbors who watched her mow lawn half-naked and then left their wives and so on..... And then on people who led them astray, too, like the people who said birth control was okay....

Convenient and pleasant, as testimonies go. 😁

Edited November 5, 2021 by Churchhoney