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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

maraleia

By maraleia
in Counting On

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Marigold

Marigold

I have not believed Josh and Anne were in love since they moved to DC, and she was always making comments about wanting to get pregnant while nudging Josh. As well, he always looked annoyed, or indifferent to any affection she offered.

That could be.

Knowing what we know now, Josh was very aloof and detached from Anna. Anna was almost frantic to have another baby, obviously trying to hold on tighter to Josh.

Once Josh got to DC, i think his "issues" totally took over. You can be who you want to be in a large city like DC with many different freaky things available. In Tonitown or wherever they lived, everyone knew him and things weren't so easy for him to find. DC musta been sexually thrilling for Josh. No wonder he always looked exhausted.

That episode where Anna surprises him with the positive pregnancy test...Josh looked almost hung over.

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hoosier80
hoosier80

New show title: 10 to 20 Years and Counting 

MargeGunderson
MargeGunderson

Someone on Reddit just described Josh’s face as a glistening glazed ham. I am considering divorcing my husband and marrying that poster. 

doodlebug
doodlebug

Well, for many of us, it's the difference between 'imperfect' and 'non-PC' and being a criminal.  Josh is a child molester and his parents actively intervened in his situation to avoid him being punis

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Fuzzysox

Fuzzysox

I bet Smugs found a way home for Christmas, and GrandDuggar 5.0 shall be conceived on his visit.

How special, neat and just special!!

Then they will start the redemption tour as soon as him stint in Jesus jail is over.

 

Josh will tell his leghumpers how the love of Jesus has cured his sinning heart.

 

Anna will sit proudly on stage with her baby bump high for everyone to see what a perfectly sweet, caring, loving, obedient, martyr wife she is. She will get lots of adoration and Josh will be healed and the $$$$$$$$ will come pouring in. *in Boob's dreams*

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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

If it was JD, that had to be from fairly late last night. I think the plane arrived back from RU around 9pm Christmas night. Then again, the Duggars are night people, and Famy had a full day beforehand what with the bow-wrapped car and hanging with the King side of her family. She posted the pics with Ashley and Jenga-playing around 2am her time, and you can see it was nighttime in the picture with Ashley, so this is entirely possible that JD and Anna had returned from their sojurn up north. 

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Arwen Evenstar

Arwen Evenstar

I'm almost positive the Duggars watch commercial TV, perhaps all they want of it. Their speech patterns include words and phrases that they just wouldn't know otherwise, at least not IMO. While the kids are far from sounding like "normal" American teens and 20-somethings, it just doesn't seem likely that the Duggar kids would know the language I hear them using from time to time, without being somewhat attuned to popular culture. And we know they're not hanging out at McDonald's, the library or the mall. My theory is that, despite what they say, they are - and have been - watching TV.

These days kids don't need TV when they have the internet. There's likely enough Duggar approved content on YouTube and whatnot to give them a peek at pop culture. There's plenty of wholesome Christian approved programming out there on TV stations they can stream so that said...the last of most wholesome programing seemed to occur circa the 80's....hence...like...totally....awesome!!!!

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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

New Meredith pics. Jenni Hartono had confirmed to Sierra that she'd be there around Christmas (and she posted a pic of Edyn), so these likely came from last night's party at the Compound. 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/_yRfJEi8x9/?taken-by=jennishartono

 

I wonder at Jana always being pictured with the baby. I know they showed Anna dressing and carrying her, but is she otherwise disassociating? Or is she nursing and doing a Mechelle by letting her kids "play" (her word) downstairs? I do feel for her fragile state, but she claims she went in eyes wide open, although I bet she  found out that was a lie, but couldn't admit that or her entire married life would be a lie. Which, in retrospect, it was. 

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BitterApple

BitterApple

Based on what I saw of Anna last week, she's barely holding on to the last thread of her sanity. I agree it's odd that Mere is always with Joy and Jana. It could be that they're avoiding posting pics of Anna because it will lead to an onslaught of nasty comments about Josh, but it wouldn't surprise me if Anna had trouble bonding considering this kid was born in the middle of a shitstorm.

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Fuzzysox

Fuzzysox

No, the plane was in Rockford for about 24 hours, indicating that Anna probably got a Christmas visit up there. It coincides with RU's weekend visit policy, for the most part. I'm sure RU made an exception for Christmas Eve this year, as long as people got out by today. 

I'm sure Anna didn't think twice visiting Josh in Jesus prison since she was raised on her dad's prison ministry. 

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Arwen Evenstar

Arwen Evenstar

(edited)

Fuzzysox, I totally agree.

Anna's work and her father's work with prison ministry taught Anna about a good many things that people are capable of....so I imagine Josh's revelations about his adolescent behavior may have paled in comparison to things she and her dad already heard. After all, they're in"the redemption business" and they saw many conversionss and transformed lives via the love and forgiveness of Christ.

So WHY would Anna NOT believe Josh who was Fundy royalty and already "raised in the faith" if he said he was well and made whole. I doubt the Duggarvand Keller children questioned parental or pastoral authority much. I'm a Christian too, but I know that you can still forgive but nit be a doormat. Forgiveness towards others sets you free spirutually. It's a gift you give yourself....but it doesn't mean you keep people who transgressed you in your life or if you still choose to at the same level of trust as before.

When I heard of Anna's intent to remain with Josh, I was floored. I told Mr Evenstar that she was either coerced by Boob for the cameras, she's a complete and utter doormat and a fool, or she's a better person than any of us. Smuggar does not deserve Anna at all...that smug slug.....she's a far better woman than he'll ever deserve. She'll take the blame for his straying because sheI'll believe she's not fun in bed, not that she even was allowed to know anything about sex in that cult of purity or that she had any right to her own body or her own pleasure. If he screws up again after she's extended her grace yet again, I hope she's finally got the sense to cut him loose. Mr E and I both know such shenanigans would have ended our marriage and that would have also been the last straw for most couples.

Edited by Arwen Evenstar
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leighdear

leighdear

 but it wouldn't surprise me if Anna had trouble bonding considering this kid was born in the middle of a shitstorm.

And sadly,none of them would ever see that disconnect for what it is and why it happened.  All that psychological-type stuff is hard to understand, y'all!   They are all to idiotic to figure it out.  And yet another child will suffer.....

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Tunia

Tunia

New Meredith pics. Jenni Hartono had confirmed to Sierra that she'd be there around Christmas (and she posted a pic of Edyn), so these likely came from last night's party at the Compound.

 

https://www.instagra...y=jennishartono

 

With all the pics this family takes, do you think they'll someday learn to clear the background first to get rid of laundry baskets, trash cans, etc.?

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toodles

toodles

You know what grosses me out about Josh?He cheated with a sex worker or porn star or whatever her occupation was at the time.Didn't use a condom.Most likely had sex with Anna when she was pregnant and didn't use a condom.What if he gave her a disease WHILE SHE WAS PREGNANT???Yuck X 1,000,000 = Josh

Among other things I'm sure.

juneday

juneday

Holy crap. I haven't visited this forum in a few months or watched/read anything to do with the Duggars (which has honestly helped my sanity a bit lol) but I was watching dateline on TLC last night and saw a commercial for that new show with Jessa and Jinger. So I came on here to read and saw Josh cheated on Anna with a prostitute?!? What??? I have definitely missed a lot!

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JoanArc

JoanArc

Holy crap. I haven't visited this forum in a few months or watched/read anything to do with the Duggars (which has honestly helped my sanity a bit lol) but I was watching dateline on TLC last night and saw a commercial for that new show with Jessa and Jinger. So I came on here to read and saw Josh cheated on Anna with a prostitute?!? What??? I have definitely missed a lot!

Molested 4 sisters and one other girl, then cheated with two prostitutes and another unnamed woman. One prostitute is suing - the sex was rough.

 

Michelle and Jim Bob are surprised they raised screwed up kids. Go figure.

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Vermicious Knid

Vermicious Knid

I told Mr Evenstar that she was either coerced by Boob for the cameras, she's a complete and utter doormat and a fool, or she's a better person than any of us.

 

She's a brainwashed doormat. This is what she has been taught since birth, and leaving/divorcing/objecting to her husband goes against those beliefs, and would turn her community against her. Also remember to them, everyone else is Other and in league with Satan. Anna won't do anything.

 

Regarding the discussion of love upthread, I don't think either of them know what love is. Anna 'loves' Josh because this is the mate her parents chose and presented to her as a right and Godly man and she loves him because she and everyone expects her to. Josh went through the motions of being a husband and father because again, he was expected to and this was the woman he could freely have acceptable sex with and was supposed to solve all his problems.

 

 

 

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Arwen Evenstar

Arwen Evenstar

Yes, raised in a family absolutely sex-obsessed + the quivers expected to constantly be Ma and Pa's show ponies that reflect their parents' moral superiority - an obvious recipe for disaster. Yet Ma and Pa remain clueless and more interested in continuance of their prideful show of 'WE ARE CHRISTIAN' than actually LEARNING anything from this horrific situation for which THEY so self righteously set the stage.

Ignorance, thy name is Duggar.

Great posts FIF...I think the prideful Duggar show is really called...WE ARE MORE CHRISTIAN THAN ANYBODY ELSE!

You also nailed it when you said the Duggar courtships are to prevent pre-marital sex since there's no way they're allowed to figure out if it's The One God Has for You or the one Daady decides he's gonna marry you off to.

I've no doubt Anna is a brainwashed doormat, but she's still a better person than I'd ever be just to be able to keep up such a nauseating façade. If she truly has the capacity to forgive him of her own free will was what I should've posted....but wer'e talking about Gothard wives here who simper at their headship like a cocker spaniel that just peed on the floor...not only does she have to be joyfully available for Mr Smug and Pasty but also endure what the rest of us know about his "bedroom skills"

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greenturtle36

greenturtle36

Well said.

Duggar courtship is all about preventing premarital sex, rather than a process to help a young person develop the skill to determine if this relationship is a viable candidate for marriage. Since Duggar types are rigidly molded into their parents' concept of 'godly' (whatever that means), and given a strict a) b) c) checklist of spousal required traits, the Duggarettes have no idea who or what they, as mature individuals, want in a marital partner.

Anna is doing the only thing she's comfortable doing, which is to cling to her 'godliness' by following the simplistic Gothard Formula For Life. AND she's willing to continue making her plight public, which is tacky at best.

Though I'm sure it's important to her to feel she's leading us all by her 'godly' example, many of us non believing, evil OTHERS, quietly and shunning a public spotlight, ethically handle marital difficulties, including infidelity. We simply do not constantly remind others of our personal trials and tribulations while waving our 'I ❤️ Jesus' flag in everyone's face.

Oh god.  I know what she's trying to do... create a "ministry" by showing everyone what Jesus can do to a wretched evil sinner, Fireproof style... See, if she leaves him, imagine the millions of people who will never receive the message of Jesus through her endurance of suffering... puke!

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Arwen Evenstar

Arwen Evenstar

(edited)

Yep, prepareth for The Grand Duggar Redemption Tour. Amazing Grace will be the theme song.

Yep, prepareth for The Grand Duggar Redemption Tour. Amazing Grace will be the theme song.

That's right FIF..Entertainment for the Redemption Tour will be provided by the Howlers and their screechy violins.

Edited by Arwen Evenstar
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JoanArc

JoanArc

All Anna's done is bought herself time. Inside of five years she'll be back exactly where she is now. Josh is not getting real help. He will act out again; count on (teehee) it. Being a martyr solves nothing. Even people who get legitimate help occasionally relapse - and that is normal. Not that I think Josh is an addict, just a terribly screwed up man-child.

 

I wish the show had Anna meeting with other women who had been in the same predicament. Some who left, some who stayed. Her eyes might have been opened, but Jim Bob can't have that.

 

 

Yep, prepareth for The Grand Duggar Redemption Tour. Amazing Grace will be the theme song.

I'm now cynical enough to believe TLC will get Josh's face back on air. Just think of the ratings.

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Tabbygirl521

Tabbygirl521

All Anna's done is bought herself time. Inside of five years she'll be back exactly where she is now. Josh is not getting real help. He will act out again; count on (teehee) it. Being a martyr solves nothing. Even people who get legitimate help occasionally relapse - and that is normal. Not that I think Josh is an addict, just a terribly screwed up man-child.

I wish the show had Anna meeting with other women who had been in the same predicament. Some who left, some who stayed. Her eyes might have been opened, but Jim Bob can't have that.

I'm now cynical enough to believe TLC will get Josh's face back on air. Just think of the ratings.

I can't imagine that Josh himself would want to be on camera again, but perhaps I underestimate his ego.

If Anna truly believes the teachings of this cult, she may genuinely be willing to give Josh the chance to make amends and demonstrate that he is healed. And who knows, maybe he is. Personally, I think that if he does manage to suppress his urges that frustration will come out in some other ways. At the very least, I'm sure he will be under house arrest and never allowed to be alone EVER. I think either he will be willing to submit to this and think he deserves it while he tries to do better OR he will totally rebel and take off.

Either way might make good TV. I only started following these people after the scandal, to be honest.

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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

He will be back on TV if only for the paycheck.

I saw some stills of Anna when the Duggars showed up enough masse to see Spooge, and she looked ANAZING. It's a pity that she is probably losing all that weight and de-frumping (as much as a Gothardite can) to be more attractive to her husband. Poor Anna is really beating herself up, per her Gothard beliefs. If only we could tell her that this is entirely Smuggar's fault. Look at Tom Brady and Tiger Woods for proof; they both cheated on supermodels and other beautiful, powerful women. How she looks will never really matter to him.

I give him maybe two years.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

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(edited)

 

I'm now cynical enough to believe TLC will get Josh's face back on air. Just think of the ratings.

 

Well, in my opinion they've already got the worst, the true perps, back on air -- Jim Bob and Michelle.

 

Honestly, it isn't Josh that I'm most eager to see off tv at all. Josh is out there as a human being and a person who is royally screwed up and has royally screwed up. Nobody is lionizing Josh or making his standards of behavior into some kind of model of Christian virtue and nobody is going to, whether he's on tv or not. .... So seeing Josh is seeing something that's kind of like the truth.

 

Seeing JB and M perpetually Tefloned by TLC and the leghumpers, however, is seeing the hideous falsehood and evil that's ultimately behind Josh's troubles and the sad state of all the other kids being held up as "godly" and loving parenthood. Having them on tv -- where to many people they do look like role models and where most of their horrible behavior and lethal beliefs are whitewashed by the network to look like something harmless or even benign-- is the true evil that should be stopped for the good of the world, not to mention the good of their children.

 

If TLC doesn't put Josh on tv, they'll just be scapegoating him (as JB and M have led the way in doing) as a way of sneaking the return of the true perpetrators, if you ask me.

Edited by Churchhoney
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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

(edited)

I rarely disagree with my Churchie Woman, but on this I'm only half way there. I think that the Duggars mostly reinforce this type of Fundyism with other like minded folks. I think the majority of people see what is really going on. In the last year alone, the world has learned that a Duggar son has molested his sisters and cheated on his wife, and that two Duggar daughters had dangerous home labors/birth that ended up with hospitalization. 

 

If that doesn't give the average person pause to think that maybe "doing things a little differently" isn't working, I don't know what will. In a way I see the Duggars as Public Service Announcements.

 

And those are the in-your-face events. A lot of the subtle idiocy is displayed often as well.

Edited by GeeGolly
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

I rarely disagree with my Churchie Woman, but on this I'm only half way there. I think that the Duggars mostly reinforce this type of Fundyism with other like minded folks. I think the majority of people see what is really going on. In the last year alone, the world has learned that a Duggar son has molested his sisters and cheated on his wife, and that two Duggar daughters had dangerous home labors/birth that ended up with hospitalization. 

 

If that doesn't give the average person pause to think that maybe "doing things a little differently" isn't working, I don't know what will. In a way I see the Duggars as Public Service Announcements.

 

And those are the in-your-face events. A lot of the subtle idiocy is displayed often as well.

 

I hope you're right!

 

But I'm afraid that the most liable-to-be-influenced people in the audience look on the Josh thing (and Jill's and Jessa's birth idiocies, etc.) as "sad uncontrollable things that happened to this wonderful Christian family just as they happen to all of us -- and isn't it wonderful how they continue walking with the Lord through these fires?!" .... Seems to me that's the way the leghumper portion of the audience -- which I'm guessing to be frighteningly huge -- has viewed all the stuff that's happened to them so far. Like the Josie and Jubilee birth traumas, for example. (which were, in my opinion, JB's and M's fault for proceeding with pregnancies when there were excellent medical reasons not to do so)  ....I'm a Duggar pessimist!

 

So ... hope you're right.

 

ELTA: Here are a few of the Amazon reviews of the new Counting On videos -- just to show why I'm scared!

 

Just a beautiful family and I love that they are showing people that Christians aren't perfect. I pray that the family is able to pull through all the controversy and TLC will put them all back on the air again! We all miss them!!

For years the Duggars have portrayed a perfect family image. While this image sets an excellent example, it isn't real. Christians sin, fear, doubt, and struggle, just like everyone else. We aren't Christians because we are perfect, rather we need Christ because we aren't perfect. Christianity is a fight. A fight for all that is good, true and beautiful, but it is hard. Sometimes we fall. When we do, we remember how much more we need Christ.

Thank you Jana, Jill, Jessa, Jinger, Joy and the rest of the Duggars for speaking openly and honestly.

very much love the values this family teaches. Although they could be handling their situation with Josh differently, his actions do not speak for the entire family. There is much to learn here.

 

Love it! They are such a genuine family and Christian example.

 

I love this family. I don't love everything. But I don't love everything about my own family. They go through things in life that all of us go through. I don't know why that ever surprised anyone. They are humans. I love watching this special. I hate to see it come to a end. I wish those that didn't like to watch it simply wouldn't watch it, and let us that love them, and get comfort from them watch them . The harassment these girls have taken on social media is so unreal. I do hate how much this special focused on Josh's scandals. They had more happy things going on to focus on. But understand they are weighing on the scale whether to try to address the issues or to appear they are just attempting to shove them under the rug.

 

I am so pleased to see the girls' and their family back on TLC again. This family has taken some hits this year and it is obvious by their words they are struggling to find a new normal. Life doesn't have a steering wheel that we can drive to all the easy places. There will be dirt roads and unforseen challenges; love finds a way to meet those challenges and grow from it. I respect that they are able to openly discuss these issues with those of us who love their family. We can all learn alot from their experience, namely not to kick someone when they are down.....as Jana said "beauty rises from the ashes".

 

http://www.amazon.com/Jill-Jessa-Counting-On-Season/product-reviews/B019EE2U32/ref=cm_cr_pr_btm_link_2?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending&pageNumber=2

Edited by Churchhoney
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Kellyee

Kellyee

I read through the Web site for the rehab that Josh is in. There is nothing in their staffing or their treatment plan that I think will address Josh's real issues. They mostly talk about re-establishing a relationship with Christ and how that will lead to success in life. But Josh already has that relationship, and has had it since birth based on his upbringing. There is no one on their staff with a background in handling sexual dysfunction and sexual acting out.

 

Oh, and their staff descriptions are amusing. One "senior" person only graduated from the program himself in 2014.

 

And their visitation limitations and 10 minute phone call restrictions mean that Josh and Anna aren't even able to do any real work on their marriage. As it is, he gets one on one "mentoring" maybe once a week according to their plan. The rest is bible reading and group therapy.

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JenCarroll

JenCarroll

He will be back on TV if only for the paycheck.

I saw some stills of Anna when the Duggars showed up enough masse to see Spooge, and she looked ANAZING. It's a pity that she is probably losing all that weight and de-frumping (as much as a Gothardite can) to be more attractive to her husband. Poor Anna is really beating herself up, per her Gothard beliefs. If only we could tell her that this is entirely Smuggar's fault. Look at Tom Brady and Tiger Woods for proof; they both cheated on supermodels and other beautiful, powerful women. How she looks will never really matter to him.

I give him maybe two years.

I'm sure you're right, and I'm also sure that's the advice she got from all the Gothardites. "Anna, you need to think about why Josh was motivated to stray. Have you maybe let yourself go a teensy bit now that you've settled into marriage? He married a lovely, slender girl, why would he want a tired, pudgy, straight-haired matron now? You owe it to Josh and to your marriage to pull yourself together." Or basically, "How dare you develop a little pooch after bearing four children in less than six years. That's so unfair to Josh!"

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BitterApple

BitterApple

Or basically, "How dare you develop a little pooch after bearing four children in less than six years. That's so unfair to Josh!"

While completely ignoring the fact that Josh has more of a pregnancy gut than his wife. I can absolutely see then making Anna feel like this whole thing is her fault.

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Kellyee

Kellyee

 

While completely ignoring the fact that Josh has more of a pregnancy gut than his wife. I can absolutely see then making Anna feel like this whole thing is her fault.

 

My only hope is that someone at the Bible prison where Josh is residing recognizes that Josh's sexual dysfunction pre-dates meeting Anna, and takes some kind of steps to begin to address his real issues. This is a pattern. He didn't just go out and bang a porn star. If he had, I would lean more towards Anna's opinion that maybe they can work their marriage out. Josh's problems go back years. They don't even really know everything he may have done, since he only admitted to the cheating after getting caught.

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Tunia

Tunia

Look at Tom Brady and Tiger Woods for proof; they both cheated on supermodels and other beautiful, powerful women.

 

Not to be super picky, Sew Sumi, but Tom Brady and Bridget Moynahan were already done and over when he started dating Gisele, and he hadn't learned of Bridget's pregnancy beforehand.  Their reports of the relationship timelines are public knowledge, and there was no cheating involved.  In fact, the two women have become fairly close (considering), and the three adults have worked out arrangements for co-parenting of Bridget's son, Jack, quite nicely. Now, Tiger on the other hand...!

 

Topic?  Josh would still be scum even if Anna were to be hideous, which she certainly is not.

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JoanArc

JoanArc

 

While completely ignoring the fact that Josh has more of a pregnancy gut than his wife.

I'm morbidly curious how he will look after getting out of RU. Fatter? Thinner? Likely hyper-aged and tired.

 

 

My only hope is that someone at the Bible prison where Josh is residing recognizes that Josh's sexual dysfunction pre-dates meeting Anna, and takes some kind of steps to begin to address his real issues.

They can't even talk about their 'problem', so no, no real help. He'd need therapy sessions alone, with his parents, and with Anna to begin to actually heal. Six months of 3-times-a-week psychotherapy would just begin to scratch the surface with Josh. Plus therapy is PAINFUL, at least at first, so I don't see Josh being very compliant. I do see him rattling off bible verses while thinking about strip club snatchola.

 

 

They don't even really know everything he may have done, since he only admitted to the cheating after getting caught.

Word. He's the type that will only admit to things after getting caught. I hope the rehab girlfriend story is true, and he does something stupid with her, if only for Anna to see she'll never get what she wants out of Josh.

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JoanArc

JoanArc

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/duggar-family-civil-lawsuit-prison-josh-85510

 

 

“[Jim Bob] doesn’t want this case becoming a criminal matter. He knows Josh would never be the same if he went inside,” says the source close to the family. But Jim Bob is also concerned about how Josh’s actions will affect the family. “They’re afraid Josh going to jail would leave an indelible stain on the family name,” adds the source, “and that they, too, would be punished for years because of what he did.”

If there's one thing Jim Bob is good at, it's getting away with things. Danica will get her nice, quiet payoff.

  • Love 5
riverblue22

riverblue22

(edited)

Maybe Josh has been scared straight with all of this.  He'll work for his dad in Duggar Prison from now on.  He won't be able to pay his own bills or own his own credit card.  The computer access will be locked down.  Jim Bob will see to it that no prostitutes will be paid nor porn sites accessed.  In exchange he can live in the pool house with a rotating staff of accountability partners and nannies passing through.

 

Now all Jim Bob has to do is get HGTV to cover his home flipping business!  He will have tons of cheap labor.  He just needs a pretty face like Joanna Gaines or Christina El Moussa to cover the design stuff.  Maybe Jinger and Joy could spend a day with a designer and become experts.

Edited by riverblue22
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