Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Fuzzysox]

I've been thinking about Josh and what he is going to do once he gets out of Jesus jail and it came to me.......I've mentioned I loved a show called Hookers for Jesus that was on cable a while back. Well Josh would fit right in taking hookers off the street and bringing them to Jesus. What better way to keep him out of trouble! *sarcasm*

Yes, I purpose to let TLC in on my brillant idea!!! This must happen Josh saving souls out in Vegas with Anne.

http://www.msnbc.com/documentaries/q-hookers-jesus-founder-annie-lobert

[whydoiwatch]

While I agree that TLC will definitely try to bring the Duggars back, I do NOT think they'll be successful. 

Couldn't agree more, Wellfleet. How could the recent scandals not have totally eliminated the possibility of any Duggar TV appearances? The upcoming Jessa/Jill shows seem to be evidence that TLC is not done with this boring family. Famewhores, all of them. The Duggar/Dillard/Seewald entitled, arrogant attitude is sickening. Anna, DullDick and Bin are seemingly glad to be a part of this mess. It will be interesting to see how they all are doing in a few years.

[queenanne]

While I agree that TLC will definitely try to bring the Duggars back, I do NOT think they'll be successful. Not remotely. And I have 4 reasons. Jill, Jessa, Derick and Ben. Not one of them has the personality or intelligence, IMO, to carry a show. 

 

I dunno, though, I'm constantly amazed by the interest and plaudits young people pile on other, not very talented, not very cute, annoying-voiced teens/twentysomethings on YouTube.  "That was Sew Funnnnneeeeeee!", as I think, in confusion, "Wait, what... this nincompoop presents herself pretty poorly IMO, bad word choice, isn't good at stories, minds wander, that laugh line wasn't even chuckle-worthy..."  Granted I don't watch much nincompoop-reality, but trying to imagine the appeal of much of the Teen Mom and Jersey Shore cast, convinces me you don't have to be very interesting to be interesting to youngsters.  Any old bland crap will do, with the "identifiability" being that Leah Whomever talks like as much of a dull average person as I do.

Edited December 3, 2015 by queenanne

[Jynnan tonnix]

Plus, I think that the line has been blurred between fiction and reality so much, and "love to hate them" characters have always featured in many popular non-reality shows, so that the abbhorent behavior of a fictional caracter might be a draw, and,somehow, an equally despicable reality-show character's actions do not seem as shocking because we are so desensitized to it, yet simultaneously all the more titillating for being "true". The powers that be know how this works, and that train-wrecks will generally draw enough viewers, between actual fans, enthusiastic haters, and rubberneckers that airing them has a good chance of turning a profit.

[Anne Elk]

Despite being under contract, the Duggars can stop the show anytime they want. It's their lives, after all. If they couldn't say no, then it wouldn't be a contract, it would be slavery. What they cannot do is leave TLC and then turn up on some other network in a different reality show, or sell their stories to any other medium without TLC getting editorial control (and a slice of the profits). So Anna is free to walk away, but that would leave her without even the one moneymaking skill she has -- talking about herself on TV.

 

I agree with most of this post. It really is going to take something massively-catastrophic to get the Duggar kids to wake up. The two revelations earlier this year are clearly not enough for that. But I still don't know whether Josh is in control of Josh. I really doubt it. He has been indoctrinated since birth to listen to and obey his father who - I don't imagine - is being very warm and fuzzy about supporting Josh at this time. If looks could kill, I bet Boob would have offed his firstborn son by now. I'd pay some serious $$ to hear playbacks of any Boob-Josh conversations that have taken place since May too. I just don't see Josh turning away from Daddy as the supreme ruler anytime soon, especially if Boob still holds all the financial reins. Which I think he does. I don't really think Josh will do exactly what Josh wants to do until Boob is permanently out of the picture.

 

The money is indeed an issue. But I don't believe anymore that Jim Bob is actively pressuring Josh or trying to intimidate him into doing TLC's bidding. I think despite it all, Josh actually wants to do what Jim Bob would tell him to do anyway. He's just as much of a believer in all this cult nonsense as Jim Bob is, and he's just as desperate to get the TV money and fame back.

 

Why did he ruin his life then? Because he could. That's the only reason. He wanted to screw a porn star, he had the opportunity, he figured nobody would ever know. It doesn't mean he's unhappy with the rest of his life, just that he's a selfish ass.

[Absolom]

Depending on the contract, the Duggars may be obligated to appear or incur monetary damages payable to TLC.  TV contracts are written that way to maintain shows.  It isn't slavery, but an obligation that at least Anna and any other adults joining the family entered voluntarily.  We have a relative who has done entertainment law and part of that job is negotiating people out of TV contracts. It's a bit of a tricky business. 

[queenanne]

Depending on the contract, the Duggars may be obligated to appear or incur monetary damages payable to TLC.  TV contracts are written that way to maintain shows.  It isn't slavery, but an obligation that at least Anna and any other adults joining the family entered voluntarily.  We have a relative who has done entertainment law and part of that job is negotiating people out of TV contracts. It's a bit of a tricky business. 

 

True, and sometimes I wonder if the specials aren't "running out the clock" on a contract, the same way that if (in the old days at least) a musical act wanted to leave a record company, the record company might be nice enough not to delay and hang onto an artist who didn't want to be there and, to instead, allow the artist to fulfill the last album slot of their contract with a "Best Of" or "Greatest Hits" compilation.  Technically a "new album"; but the outgoing artist didn't have to spend money or creativity on cutting new tracks, and the record company wouldn't have to wait for it.

 

Though I also suspect there are finite clauses on the Duggar talent contracts too.  I don't know what they do for reality specifically, but you probably already know from your relation that the general standard first contractual obligation for scripted TV, is for the actor to stay with a show for 5 seasons with an option for another 2, for a total of 7.

Edited December 3, 2015 by queenanne

[GeeGolly]

I'm not a lawyer, nor in the entertainment business, but we all are familiar with contracts. Taking out a loan of any kind is a contract, and if one walks away there are consequences. As far as working, athletes and entertainers do enter contracts with specific caveats.  The singer Prince couldn't even use his own name for profit until his contract ran out.

 

However I think once a network, music label, or sports team cancels the contract, it's a done deal. Personally I think by TLC canceling the show the Duggars were under no further obligation, and their contract was null & void. With that said, it's likely they entered into a new contract for the specials.

[kokapetl]

It's likely TLC avoided child labour regulations by only having contracts with adult Duggars, and most of the adult Duggars probably aren't under any contract with TLC either, only the married ones.

[Absolom]

A network cancelling the show doesn't always void the contract.  Kate Gosselin couldn't go to another network after her show was cancelled.  Reality TV works under slightly different procedures than network TV.  While if Fox cancels Empire, that normally releases the actors, TLC does not usually want the viewership diluted by a competing network being able to air the same family/bakery, etc while TLC can still use the original.  That's why Mama June had to wait for her contract period to expire before being able to go to another network.  The Duggars are well past any initial contract period (usually 5 to 7 years) so probably were in a one or two year option period.  Each option period becomes a new negotiation. 

 

All that means is that the Duggarlings are stuck filming through the end of their current option period. That doesn't mean that they can't be late, flub their lines and takes, or be "sick" a lot if they don't want to be in an episode.  Although in this case I think many of the family were wanting to film for TLC again and Jim Bob was probably begging.  If TLC wanted Anna, she was more than likely contractually obligated to at least show up and Jim Bob would exert the pressure for her to perform to standard.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Absolom

[Missy Vixen]

So do you think Josh will be back as well?

 

ETA: I must say that, while I really really don't want that to happen, I'll be very interested to see how it plays out if it does. (Not sure I'll like what I might learn, seeing that, but .... very curious nevertheless.)

I'm going to shimmy out on a limb here. YES.

 

It's all about ratings for TLC. They've shown they have no concern with what the viewers think or the effect on the family in question. They're still watching. And we all know ratings (and money) is paramount.

[Kiss my mutt]

Maybe tlc can get Kirk Cameron to be Josh's accountability partner.

[Churchhoney]

 

 

It's all about ratings for TLC.

 

Well, that certainly does mean "Josh"! ....

 

It may be more likely now than before the Ashley Madison thing, I'm thinking, too. Before, he was the face of serial child molestation. Now, he's a guy who had sex with a sex worker and liked porn. Much much easier to dismiss as no biggie.

[Aja]

But surely people still REMEMBER that he has molested children, right? Right?

[Sew Sumi]

But surely people still REMEMBER that he has molested children, right? Right?

[leghumper] But...but...but that was YEARS ago!!!! He repented, and his sisters forgave him!!! why are you people so meeeeean and trying to take down these good Christians?????[/leghumper]

[Aja]

[leghumper] But...but...but that was YEARS ago!!!! He repented, and his sisters forgave him!!! why are you people so meeeeean and trying to take down these good Christians?????[/leghumper]

Ooooh, that's right. Completely different season of life. I'm sorry, I forgot.

[JoanArc]

But surely people still REMEMBER that he has molested children, right? Right?

IT WAS NOTHING!

[BitterApple]

I think Josh will be back as well. The trainwreck potential is too good for TLC to pass up a bloated, golden goose like Smuggar. People can holler, protest and sign petitions all they want, but the ratings will be crazy.

Edited December 3, 2015 by BitterApple

[greenturtle36]

But, but, but, Josh deeply regrets recent media reports about his long ago past...

[Sew Sumi]

Don't forget the gratuitous shot at the ebil librul media!!!!!111

[Churchhoney]

But surely people still REMEMBER that he has molested children, right? Right?

 

One assumes. But to my eye, the response over time both from the family and from the public and media has been to carry on much much more about the Ashley Madison nonsense. My interpretation is that most people -- and certainly the media and the Duggars and probably the leg humpers -- don't really want to mess with the child molestation thing, because it's messy and confusing and horrendous and not at all titillating, while the Ashley Madison stuff is just the usual kind of fun people like to gossip about and involves "betraying poor Anna!!!" who, one must admit, at least claims to have been totally down with marrying and bearing children to the serial unpunished/untreated child molester. Etc. Seems to me that the child molestation has been swept under the rug, comparatively, by everyone involved because the other's just a much easier story for everybody to know how to react to.

 

I think this is a pretty common thing. The more complicated -- and serious -- something is, the less attention it gets from the media. And, I think, the less attention it gets from the people directly involved and the general public as well, very often.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Aja]

One assumes. But to my eye, the response over time both from the family and from the public and media has been to carry on much much more about the Ashley Madison nonsense. My interpretation is that most people -- and certainly the media and the Duggars and probably the leg humpers -- don't really want to mess with the child molestation thing, because it's messy and confusing and horrendous and not at all titillating, while the Ashley Madison stuff is just the usual kind of fun people like to gossip about and involves "betraying poor Anna!!!" who, one must admit, at least claims to have been totally down with marrying and bearing children to the serial unpunished/untreated child molester. Etc. Seems to me that the child molestation has been swept under the rug, comparatively, by everyone involved because the other's just a much easier story for everybody to know how to react to.

 

I think this is a pretty common thing. The more complicated -- and serious -- something is, the less attention it gets from the media. And, I think, the less attention it gets from the people directly involved and the general public as well, very often.

Thank you, Churchhoney. The amount of attention and disapproval Joshgate 2 generated with respect to Joshgate 1 has disturbed me from day one. That's the most comforting explanation I've seen. It makes sense, too.

[Churchhoney]

Thank you, Churchhoney. The amount of attention and disapproval Joshgate 2 generated with respect to Joshgate 1 has disturbed me from day one. That's the most comforting explanation I've seen. It makes sense, too.

 

Thanks. ... Doesn't say anything very flattering about us as a species, though, if it's even partly true. lol

[JoanArc]

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/anna-duggar-josh-cheating-stds-79477

 

 

“She got tested for STDs,” an insider told Life & Style. “She was relieved to get a clean bill of health.”

Good for Anna!

[NikSac]

Yes, because 'it was over clothes, the girls were asleep and didn't even know it, and it wasn't rape or anything like that ...'

Quite the headship there, JB, discounting what was done to your own daughters.

 

I am still confused as to how the one who was sitting on the washing machine was asleep, as well as the one sitting next to him while he read a story.  But okay, whatever Duggars. Sure, they were asleep (quite the sound sleepers, apparently) and were wearing clothes even though the police report mentioned one of them having clothing removed - IIRC it was the one who was listening to the story, but I haven't looked at it in awhile. I can't decide which is more unbelievable - how much they are willing to minimize and discount what happened, or how much they lie.

[Sew Sumi]

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/anna-duggar-josh-cheating-stds-79477

Good for Anna!

Who would know this? The doctor's office can't say anything because of HIPAA. Color me dubious at best.

[JoanArc]

Who would know this? The doctor's office can't say anything because of HIPAA. Color me dubious at best.

Amy, or anyone Anna told. HIPPAA wouldn't apply to anyone else.

Edited December 3, 2015 by JoanArc

[NikSac]

Who would know this? The doctor's office can't say anything because of HIPAA. Color me dubious at best.

 

I do hope it's true, but as far as it being reported, very good question. If the 'insider' isn't Anna herself, she needs to seriously watch who she trusts with this type of information. That makes me really sad considering she probably doesn't have a whole lot of people she trusts right now as it is.  If she told someone she trusted and they ran to Intouch, yikes.

[galax-arena]

Jill, Jessa, Derick and Ben. Not one of them has the personality or intelligence, IMO, to carry a show. 

I remember watching Ben "interview" Jinger when the latter was giving her spiritual testimony and was struck by how dull and monotonous he was. Guess he uses up all of his personality on his angry instagram screeds. 

 

Josh was hardly the most interesting person ever but he for the most part had more life in him than a plank of wood in terms of screen presence.

[JoanArc]

 

If she told someone she trusted and they ran to Intouch, yikes.

She may have passively wanted it out there, too, to end people's speculation. The TV show is coming up, after all.

[Marigold]

I'm sure that was Amy who leaked that information.

I hope it's all true. Anna got tested and is clear. And I hope she is seriously thinking of divorce.

It doesn't surprise me that Josh would want a vow renewal either. It fits his delusional pattern of thinking...that a little vow ceremony and a prayer is all it takes.

Josh has NO CLUE what it takes and assuming he is at that "pray it away" treatment center, he will never find out how much hard work it takes to repent and reconcile with his wife, kids and family. Yes, in their faith, Anna is supposed to forgive. But the damage doesn't go away.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Marigold

[NikSac]

She may have passively wanted it out there, too, to end people's speculation. The TV show is coming up, after all.

 

Good point. The 'insider' might have been asked to leak that info. I really feel so sorry for Anna. She seems like she's in a no-win situation and has been for a long time. Although if that story's true at least she's not also dealing with HIV or something.

[Arwen Evenstar]

I really feel sorry for Anna this time not being allowed to deal privately with something as personal as being tested for STDs...Jiminy Christmas...is nothing sacred?

Though I'm relieved for her and thankful that she doesn't have to deal with that shame as well, it saddens me that its all out there for public consumption.

I'm wondering who spilled the frijoles on this one...methinks Famy?

[Marigold]

I think Josh will be back on TV.

Not in the upcoming specials with Jill and Jessa.

Josh will bring in ratings and that's all that counts for TLC.

Josh and Anna will convince themselves that they are sharing their trials and how God brought them through this fire.

Translation: money

[Anne Elk]

Thanks for the info on contracts. It seems astonishing to me that people would sign away their rights to live their own lives privately, but I guess once they see the dollar signs they're blind to everything else.

 

I've gotten a lot more cynical about these people as the Joshgates have played out. At first I thought they might just be naive religious nutcases but now I believe there's just no end to their lies. They'll do and say anything and justify it as "what Jesus wants." They'll be happy to have Josh back with the family if it means more TV time, no matter how they feel about him personally.

[NikSac]

Thanks for the info on contracts. It seems astonishing to me that people would sign away their rights to live their own lives privately, but I guess once they see the dollar signs they're blind to everything else.

 

I've gotten a lot more cynical about these people as the Joshgates have played out. At first I thought they might just be naive religious nutcases but now I believe there's just no end to their lies. They'll do and say anything and justify it as "what Jesus wants." They'll be happy to have Josh back with the family if it means more TV time, no matter how they feel about him personally.

 

Bolding by me - the scarier thing to me is that I doubt they even know HOW they feel about him personally. Are they allowed to feel anything about him? It doesn't seem like it.  I assume JB can and probably does, but he's more into the $$.  I wonder if Michelle and the kids even have feelings anymore, though.

[Xena]

 

I doubt they even know HOW they feel about him personally. Are they allowed to feel anything about him? It doesn't seem like it.

 

They'll feel however JimBob tells them how to feel about it.

 

[flyingdi]

I'm not sure I always believe the source is Amy with some of these rags. I think the source may be more a perusal of the Duggar trash cans and a/ "Oh, by the way, Anna Duggar was seen leaving a doctor's office."

[Churchhoney]

Amy, or anyone Anna told.

 

She's somehow always the answer, isn't she? Wonder if she has a dedicated phone just for tabloid "reporters."

[kokapetl]

I'm not sure I always believe the source is Amy with some of these rags. I think the source may be more a perusal of the Duggar trash cans and a/ "Oh, by the way, Anna Duggar was seen leaving a doctor's office."

It'd take teams of people to search their dumpsters.

Amy has links to InTouch and other tabloids on her stupid website. It's her.

[Lemur]

She's somehow always the answer, isn't she? Wonder if she has a dedicated phone just for tabloid "reporters."

 

I don't know about that, but I'm sure they have her bank account information for and ACH transfer when they run the story.

[MunichNark]

I've recently realised that I simply cannot bear to look at Smuggar photos or listen to his voice. I.just.can't.

[JenCarroll]

I think this is a pretty common thing. The more complicated -- and serious -- something is, the less attention it gets from the media. And, I think, the less attention it gets from the people directly involved and the general public as well, very often.

Taking response to Duggars in the Media

[JoanArc]

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/anna-duggar-josh-duggar-rehab-danica-dillon-lawsuit-80054

 

 

“Anna knew she needed to talk to Josh about that,” explains the source, “and about the lawsuit.”

“[Anna] believes Josh cheated on her — because he admitted he did — but she does not believe Danica’s story. She doesn’t think Josh could be so aggressive,” explains the source.

“Josh is still denying it happened and told Anna that since he was living a life of sin, he isn’t surprised that people are making things up about him. But Josh doesn’t confess anything until he is absolutely caught in a lie.”

This whole article ugh.....Just leave him Anna, go live with your brother, take the kids, get a divorced, get Jim Bob to pay alimony, and learn a skill. You'd be so effing better off than with this sack of dough for the rest of your life.

 

 

“She believes everything Josh says. She actually thinks he’s getting better.”

*Voice of God* "He's not!"

Edited December 9, 2015 by JoanArc

[BitterApple]

Lol, sure Anna, keep telling yourself that.

[Fuzzysox]

Lol, sure Anna, keep telling yourself that.

More like Ma and Pa Duggar have drilled it into the poor girl.

 

Move on Anna. You deserve better especially an honest man who will show you a better life.

[Churchhoney]

More like Ma and Pa Duggar have drilled it into the poor girl.

 

Move on Anna. You deserve better especially an honest man who will show you a better life.

 

When you got the one spouse (and boyfriend, suitor, partner, anything)  you've had only and entirely through your parents' intervention, I wonder what that does to your future hopes.

 

I doubt that Anna has any feeling at all that she could go out and find a new spouse(boyfriendsuitorpartnerwhatever) on her own. ... And I'm sure she figures that if she dumps the one that her parents got her, her parents would not now help her get a second. And that probably nobody else in Gothardland would put themselves or their son forward for her if she dumps the one that two Gothard families came together to present her with ....

 

So I expect that in her mind, if she dumps Josh she's looking at a future of single motherhood of four children she's grown up intending to homeschool...with Duggar parents' money withdrawn (and who knows about Florida trailer money?). That likely seems like not just a bleak but an impossible prospect, I'd think. And maybe worse since she was beginning to develop some champagne tastes in DC, it seems.

 

I have a hard time seeing how she could really conceive of a future -- and especially a future marriage -- that she goes out and gets for herself at this point, especially since she seems to have a pretty limited brain and imagination. She's another one who's well and truly trapped by the cult upbringing, I expect.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Buggin]

I think if one day Anna decides she really wants to leave, she will realize that she is worthy of finding a better husband who will be a good stepfather to her children, because she does have family that will help her (her brother that spoke out when this happens comes to mind). She, most likely, is just not there right now. She's not so young but she is naive enough from the way she has been raised to think Josh will turn his life around and they'll live happily ever after with a few more kids added in. But I do think if she came to the decision that enough was enough, she could find the support she needed to get out and maybe through some counseling she will know that she is not just some used goods like Gothard would lead her to believe.

 

Ultimately, I do still think it will be Josh that leaves, if anything. And I don't know how Anna would come out of it if she's not the one to initiate divorce. It would depend on if she stayed under the Duggar umbrella or chose to leave and sought help from others who have left.

[Missy Vixen]

The adult film star's lawsuit against Josh: I think she wants money, because having to write a check will be a lot more painful for Joshley Madison (and Jim Boob) than anything else. I also think her attorney is going to make sure the discovery process is as painful (and public) as possible. I don't know what the law is in Arkansas, but I can only imagine a wife still is not required to testify against her husband. To make sure that settlement check is written, I think the attorney will seek testimony from the four molested siblings for starters.

 

IMHO, YMMV.

[BitterApple]

Given that we barely see Anna with Meredith, I wonder if she's harboring some resentment towards her. I think going from three to four kids heavily tips the scales in terms of Anna's options as a single mom. Anna probably realizes now that Josh had no interest in a fourth child and getting pregnant really wasn't the smartest move. There just didn't seem to be any joy or excitement surrounding Mere's birth and other than Jana, nobody seems to care about her existence. Pure speculation on my part, but it's just a vibe I get.