Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[RazzleberryPie]

Jessa can only do the one hairstyle.

Doesn't matter if she can do 100, she doesn't have a license to cut hair or do makeup. 

[PityFree]

Is Ben going to expect Jessa to be a submissive wife? Is he expecting headship over her? I suspect that will not go well for the couple.

[glow]

I suspect Ben's used to Jessa by now because they've been courting for so long, something Jill didn't get. To me, Jill's conversations with Derick are in front of other people where you say the right thing to be accepted. They don't even get to talk about real things in a real way, especially in the marriage counselling sessions I just saw today. They're saying the party line all the time -- that combined with the super quick courting, the quick engagement and the super fast wedding, means that they have a lot to get used to. 

 

Ben, on the other hand, knew about Jessa before he courted her. He went out of his way to be around her and her personality is pretty out there. They've been courting for almost a year before they got engaged. Even her telling him how to get the washing machine up the stairs put her personality on display. It made him smile. It made Jessa smile. And it made me smile. 

Edited October 15, 2014 by glow

[floridamom]

Whoa! Did you guys catch Jessa ordering poor Bin around like he wore panties? That kid was uncomfortable with her embarrassing him on camera like that..Josh just about admitted at the gym in DC with Ben that Jessa is a bitch and did he want to take her on. I admit, I felt for Ben at that moment, just a little. His parents should recognize what he will face with her and have advised him differently. "This Is Your Life, Bin"....good luck to YOU.

[PityFree]

So, is Bin's windshield repair business the kind you see where they sit in a parking lot somewhere with a big sign that says "FREE Windshield Chip Repairs!"? 

[CarolMK]

I happened to see on Ben's facebook page (the one where he refers to himself as a business person is the real one) and there was a reference on it from Ben's Aunt Joanna that Ben is still in college. He's taking online courses at the National Park community college and then plans to transfer after he has his 2 year degree, which should be around May of this year. I think he mentioned something about midterms. So maybe Jessa and Ben will be living somewhere else after their marriage, how far are they from a real college...are there any in their area within commuting distance?

Anyway, glad to see that he is still attending and is planning to finish his education. What about that, Jim Bob? Or do you still think all of your kids don't need college?

[GEML]

The University of Arkansas is about 25 minutes away. If AR is like VA, and he's done the two years correctly in community college and done well, he can transfer there without too much problem and comes out with a UofA degree.

[Mrsjumbo]

And there is also NWACC (northwest Arkansas community college).

[PityFree]

I wonder what he is studying. No sciences, literature, art, psychology, etc. because SATAN. I assume he'll major in business, but he'll have to take statistics, accounting, finance, economincs, etc. -- math stuff that homeschooling probably didn't perpare him for.

[GEML]

He's not ATI, and while Vision Forum isn't great, it's still better than anything close to what the Duggar children had exposure to.

[Higgins]

I've read numerous times that home schooled children score better in math and science than public schooled do. Of course I'm sure there are vast differences between the different home school curricula.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Higgins

[wanderwoman]

I've read numerous times that home schooled children score better in math and science than public schooled do. Of course I'm sure there are vast differences between the different home school curricula.

I looked into the issue as part of a thesis requirement. It's not as cut and dry as homeschoolers try to sell it. In certain areas of the country, homeschool kids do perform higher on BASIC math skills until about 4th grade. After that, they tend to score the same or lower when you roll them all into one. The problem is, there's no standardization for homeschooling. You have one family with highly educatedparents and private tutors homeschooling very bright children and then you have things like ATI and "unschoolers". Obviously, they will have vastly different results. The Duggars have claimed that the kids take "state proficiency testing". That's not entirely accurate. They take a yearly examine created by a Christian homeschool coalition. So, even if they score high, the results are useless when you compare them with public school kids.

[GEML]

Homeschoolers do as well as a few things, just like public schools 1) their teachers - how educated and prepared is their teacher? 2) their home environment - does it foster learning, creativity and open communication? 3) the learning styles - are they learning in the best possible way for their brains to learn?  are they visual learners or kinetic learners and are those styles being met? 4) their curriculums - are those challenging and progressing as their minds develop? 5) core subjects mixed with areas of special study - are they meeting the basic needs of what most people would recognize as a solid foundation as well as being allowed to develop subjects that are truly special and intrinsic to their aptitudes and desires as individuals?

There are thousands of homeschoolers across the country that are meeting these goals every year.  There are millions of students in public schools and hundreds of thousands more in private schools.  None of these things are very easily tested for by anyone.

[BitterApple]

If Bin is still in school, then that's great, but if a four year degree is his goal, why is he getting married so young? I'm not saying it can't or shouldn't be done, because my own parents married while they were in college, but they were also both working full time. It just seems like both Bin and Jessa are so ill-prepared to be functioning, independent adults.

 

What's even dumber is how Gothard rules dictate that women don't work outside the home. Jessa could easily waitress, do office work, be a receptionist or anything else that would at least bring a little money in. Instead the two of them are going to be living off of Bin's "salary" from JimBoob? It's insane to me.

Edited October 16, 2014 by BitterApple

[PityFree]

If Bin is still in school, then that's great, but if a four year degree is his goal, why is he getting married so young?

Because he believes that it is the only way he can ever get to touch a vagina or boob and not burn in the firey pits of hell. And he really, really wants to touch one, both, all three!

Edited October 16, 2014 by PityFree

[CarolMK]

Ben replied on his FB page this his major is political science. Isn't this what Josh wanted to major in originally? Although when Josh graduated from homeschool 10 years ago, the Duggars wouldn't have even considered College plus then. I think Josh must have set a goal for himself to find a nice girl and get married as well as run his own business, since that was a requirement for being allowed to marry Anna. I guess that John David is still running his towing business. Is there any official word on what Joseph and Josiah are doing (well, Josiah just finally got back from what was it, 6 months of Alert boot camp) ? 

[lottiedottie]

Ben replied on his FB page this his major is political science. Isn't this what Josh wanted to major in originally? Although when Josh graduated from homeschool 10 years ago, the Duggars wouldn't have even considered College plus then. I think Josh must have set a goal for himself to find a nice girl and get married as well as run his own business, since that was a requirement for being allowed to marry Anna. I guess that John David is still running his towing business. Is there any official word on what Joseph and Josiah are doing (well, Josiah just finally got back from what was it, 6 months of Alert boot camp) ? 

How is he going to get around the science part of that? :P

[WTFFF]

I feel like "Political Creationism and Rejection of Science" would sum up Josh and Ben's approach to life nicely, actually, except it's a bit too wordy.

[riverblue22]

Patrick Henry College pumps out a bunch of poly sci majors who go to work for conservative congressmen and lobbyists.  It is big business.  I imagine he wants to get in on that stuff, like Josh.  If he gets that degree (from any old conservative college), he should be able to get a plum job with his Duggar connections.  It's probably the best way to make a good living in fundy world.

[GEML]

Patrick Henry doesn't like Gothard types, in part because they don't have the education they are looking for. But yes, a poly sci BA and television/media background would be a help to break into quite a few organizations. But I'll be honest, right now, I'm not seeing it in Ben, but time may tell.

Jessa on the other hand, would do better if she could get some education.

[Darknight]

Patrick Henry doesn't like Gothard types, in part because they don't have the education they are looking for. But yes, a poly sci BA and television/media background would be a help to break into quite a few organizations. But I'll be honest, right now, I'm not seeing it in Ben, but time may tell.

Jessa on the other hand, would do better if she could get some education.

Jessa probably can't even solve a simple algebra equation or read classical literature

[GEML]

I can't solve a simple algebra equation, but I'm pretty good with the literature.

My point is broader - what places like Patrick Henry and FRC and such are looking for are very specific things, and they have lot of people to draw from. We make fun of JB for talking about his kids having worked on a political campaign, but you'd be surprised how few people have, or how easy it can be to pick up real skills by doing so. I think Jessa had a lot of media skills - I've mentioned Sarah Palin before. But right now, Ben doesn't have those same skills - it's actually not that easy to be on a reality TV show, and watching Ben in the talking head parts (or watching Jim Bob speak without a script and editing) shows just how well someone like Josh does in the media world. Again, we aren't talking about the national stage here, just within their own world. Right now, Ben has a long way to go, poli sci degree of not.

[lucille66]

I wonder what he is studying. No sciences, literature, art, psychology, etc. because SATAN. I assume he'll major in business, but he'll have to take statistics, accounting, finance, economincs, etc. -- math stuff that homeschooling probably didn't perpare him for.

I know several homeschoolers (former) who have excelled at higher math. Many have gone to universities and have landed well-paying jobs such as economists, engineering and actuaries.  Most homeschoolers do study science, literature, art, etc. Duggars and Seewalds might not include these in their curriculum, but they're kind of in a bubble of their own making.

Edited October 17, 2014 by lucille66

[cmr2014]

I understand that some people do a good job of home schooling.

 

The Duggars, however, do not. That's not even in question. They home school their children specifically to prevent them from learning. The fear that they will hear ideas that they don't like outweighs every other consideration. Secular ideas about science, and to a lesser extent history and literature are so anathema to them, that they don't even want their children to hear about them.

[floridamom]

I would like for them to answer the question as to why they don't send their children to a Christian school? It's always public school that is addressed. Surely the Christian school that JB attended was good enough for him, wasn't it? They also interviewed an old teacher of his from this school a few years ago and she seemed like a fine local Christian woman. Why don't they send their kids there?

I also observed recently footage from the SODDRT, when some of the kids were trying to do schoolwork and one of the other littler girls was trying to squeeze riding her bicycle behind the DR chair in between the wall! How can anyone concentrate on schoolwork amid chaos at home? They,,IMO, sabotage their own kids from success.

I have heard some of the older kids read aloud and they don't have good reading skills at all...I wonder how they would do on an adult literacy test?

[PityFree]

Gothardism requires that they homeschool.

[floridamom]

My opinion is that it is both insulting and unfair to compare the Duggar style of homeschooling with real homeschoolers out there. The standards are light years apart.

[Adeejay]

Based on their bridal registry, I find Jessa’s insistence that she wants a “small cottage” rather interesting.  I wonder where they plan on putting the five welcome mats, seven quilt sets and all the other largess that they’ve so graciously requested.

[Darknight]

Gothardism requires that they homeschool.

You mean gothard aka brainwashing school. Attending school outside the cult is too risky. Not every student at a christian school is christian. Also that would be expensive.

My opinion is that it is both insulting and unfair to compare the Duggar style of homeschooling with real homeschoolers out there. The standards are light years apart.

I know homeschoolers. They participate in co ops, sports and other extracurricular stuff. Colleges actually love homeschoolers. A couple homeschoolers I know got full scholarships

[GEML]

Not only homeschool, but the family can't break down into age appropriate learning - everyone had to be pretty much studying together. That is how the curriculum is designed. Now, I'm not saying it's just one curriculum, but if the topic is English, everyone studies English together and will have grammar exercises ( usually notebooks) that vary on age. Music, as we know, means everyone studies violin whether you have talent or not.

[Fuzzysox]

Is Ben going to expect Jessa to be a submissive wife? Is he expecting headship over her? I suspect that will not go well for the couple.

He better be submissive we all know that Jessa will rule him forever. She'll just keep her legs closed til he does as she says.

[TobyBelle]

This past week's episode was awkward to watch when these two interacted. Those two are not on the same page. Ben is always getting shot down and just clams up.

[mimionthebeach]

Based on their bridal registry, I find Jessa’s insistence that she wants a “small cottage” rather interesting.  I wonder where they plan on putting the five welcome mats, seven quilt sets and all the other largess that they’ve so graciously requested.

 

Jessa's gonna put one of those welcome mats on Bin's side of the bed.

[RazzleberryPie]

I would like for them to answer the question as to why they don't send their children to a Christian school? It's always public school that is addressed. Surely the Christian school that JB attended was good enough for him, wasn't it? They also interviewed an old teacher of his from this school a few years ago and she seemed like a fine local Christian woman. Why don't they send their kids there?

I also observed recently footage from the SODDRT, when some of the kids were trying to do schoolwork and one of the other littler girls was trying to squeeze riding her bicycle behind the DR chair in between the wall! How can anyone concentrate on schoolwork amid chaos at home? They,,IMO, sabotage their own kids from success.

I have heard some of the older kids read aloud and they don't have good reading skills at all...I wonder how they would do on an adult literacy test?

Honestly, a lot of Quiverfull families homeschool due to logistics. It's easier to homesschool than get 19 (or what, 12 are prek-12 age now?) kids dressed, fed, out the door, home, homework completed, plus anything extracurricular. 

[GEML]

That's a reasonable point. And if you have a good homeschooling setup and curriculum, you can get a better quality education in a homeschool environment than in some private Christian schools. As with everything, Christian schools are only as good as the teachers and curriculum and the leadership, etc. And some of them are worse than public schools, just as some public schools are worse than some private schools.

Plus, we are also overlooking that most families have a hybrid approach. They do what is best for each CHILD not their ideology. Some children thrive at their local public school some years, others need certain years at a local Christian school, some years are homeschooled. A deeply introverted child or highly extroverted child may not be a good fit for 13 years of homeschooling, but a middle of the road child with access to good activities thrives. The extrovert loves the big public system, the introvert the smaller Christian school.

Most parents put their children first when it comes to figuring out what their educational needs are, not some ideology.

[CarolMK]

 I suspect it's probable that Ben got a better homeschool educational experience than Jenna did. He started in at the community college right when he turned 18, I believe and had to have passed their entrance requirements in order to do so. Jessa graduated from homeschool at about 16 or 17 and then was immediately put in charge of teaching the younger ones. Plus, there are only 7 children in Ben's family instead of 19..much more doable for his mom, especially if there were at the most 5 who were in school at the same time since some of his siblings look to be fairly young.

[BitterApple]

If I'm not mistaken Jessa is the only one out of the Duggar kids who was issued an actual HS Diploma by the State of Arkansas. I remember when they had her graduation party, Boob mentioned it and the camera zeroed in on the framed certificate.

[Barb23]

Who's paying for Ben's college? Or did he receive an academic scholarship?

[Darknight]

If I'm not mistaken Jessa is the only one out of the Duggar kids who was issued an actual HS Diploma by the State of Arkansas. I remember when they had her graduation party, Boob mentioned it and the camera zeroed in on the framed certificate.

How when she's homeschooled? Usually parents issue a diploma or use an online school. Homeschooled kids don't qualify for state issue diplomas in my state

Who's paying for Ben's college? Or did he receive an academic scholarship?

Jesus. Maybe JB, who knows. But I can't see him with an academic scholarship

[GEML]

If she did more than a GED, she may have done an actual accredited online program. Arkansas does have at least one school that does this, and it would cost money, but that isn't a problem for the Duggars.

And the Seewalds would have money set aside for their children's education if they were living by the Vision Forum dictates of savings and debt free living. And they would do it just as Ben is doing it - two years at a CC, living at "home" and commuting, and then a state school. Keep in mind that the Seewalds aren't Gothard followers.

[floridamom]

I don't remember Jessa receiving a regular high school diploma. I thought she took that state test that Michelle "picks and chooses" for her kids and that Jessa received a GED upon "graduation". Anyhow, I wonder if she will be a showboat for retailers and advertise every service she uses like her famewhore sister, Jill? Maybe she isn't as well liked by the ladies of the church and they won't volunteer as much to "comp" her with the tidbits of snacks the Duggars will serve...it remains to be seen, and I hope we don't have to wait until next spring to see this latest fiasco.

[GEML]

I vaguely remember Jessa getting a GED as well, but I can't swear to it.

[lottiedottie]

 I suspect it's probable that Ben got a better homeschool educational experience than Jenna did. He started in at the community college right when he turned 18, I believe and had to have passed their entrance requirements in order to do so. Jessa graduated from homeschool at about 16 or 17 and then was immediately put in charge of teaching the younger ones. Plus, there are only 7 children in Ben's family instead of 19..much more doable for his mom, especially if there were at the most 5 who were in school at the same time since some of his siblings look to be fairly young.

Most Community Colleges don't have very stringent entrance requirements. A pulse and a checkbook and they will let you in. Seriously though, CC's are ideal for people who need remedial work so it makes sense that Ben would go to one (and not have much difficulty getting in). He'd have to take placement tests for English and Math but that's about it. In fact, the CC I went to had 3 levels of sub-college level math. I think the first course was a basic math refresher.  I wonder how Ben deals with all that mind-opening literature/English he has to take. Even if you end up getting a technical degree, it seems like even a basic English class is a requirement.

[NausetGirl]

Most Community Colleges don't have very stringent entrance requirements. A pulse and a checkbook and they will let you in. Seriously though, CC's are ideal for people who need remedial work so it makes sense that Ben would go to one (and not have much difficulty getting in). He'd have to take placement tests for English and Math but that's about it. In fact, the CC I went to had 3 levels of sub-college level math. I think the first course was a basic math refresher.  I wonder how Ben deals with all that mind-opening literature/English he has to take. Even if you end up getting a technical degree, it seems like even a basic English class is a requirement.

 

Agree.  The community colleges in my state - New York - do not have SAT or ACT or GPA requirements or even an application process per se.  As long as you have a high school diploma or GED, you're in.  As lottiedottie said, they're perfect for students who need remediation before attempting to move on for their 4-year degree.  But there are also many CC students who spend their first two years there before transferring to a four-year school because you can save a boatload of money that way. I would definitely peg Ben as in the first group however.

[msblossom]

Poor Ben. He seems awfully young to be getting married. His little brain is still growing and developing; had he been left on his own to mature over the next 5 or 6 years he'd have been just fine and better prepared for marriage. As it is now, he's about 15 or 16 years old maturity-wise (which is the case for not all boys his age, but for most), and the poor kid is gonna get pussy-whipped by Jessa because she's far more strong personality-wise, and is at this point, more mature. She doesn't respect Ben, and she'll be the one driving the bus in this relationship. I predict unhappiness for this couple, sadly. I do wish his parents would have advised him better. I can't see why JB green lighted this match for Jessa. The only thing that makes sense to me is that the Duggars will have an easier time manipulating and controlling someone like poor Ben. As a mother, I would have tried to give Jessa better guidance. It doesn't take a lot of insight to see this is a mis-match.

[NausetGirl]

Doesn't matter if she can do 100, she doesn't have a license to cut hair or do makeup. 

 

Like Josh with actually becoming a lawyer, I personally just can't see Jessa putting in the work to get the license.  They both might START the process, but I'd be very doubtful of either finishing successfully.

[GEML]

It's true that CC don't have entrance requirements, but if Ben plans to transfer after two years, he must not have needed much remedial work. Those are not transferable and (in Virginia) do not count towards the four year degree.

Keep in mind that Vision Forum is the Calvinist program of the Quiverfull/homeschooling/patriarchy movement. And Calvinists have always prided themselves on education over religious such as Baptists and Methodists (and those churches' offshoot denominations) and insisted on education for their clergy. It may not be the level of education many of us expect (it does focus on Creationism and is obsessed with America as a religiously Christian nation for instance) but it is far more academically rigorous than most other groups within this subculture.

[leighroda]

Did anyone else see the "I love Ben" paper posted on what I assume is Jessa's section of wall in their room? It was when they were packing up Jill... Totally done 6th grade style.

[WTFFF]

Did anyone else see the "I love Ben" paper posted on what I assume is Jessa's section of wall in their room? It was when they were packing up Jill... Totally done 6th grade style.

 

On par with Jill's "countdown to meeting Derick" counter drawn on her bedroom mirror.

[floridamom]

Yeah, those two girls stuck with their "courtship rules book guideline" all the way to the altar, didn't they! They were and are head over heels "infatuated" like junior high school girls with their first school dance date. They are women in their early 20s; shame on their parents for stunting their childrens' development. Having a regular period cycle is the only criteria Michelle seems to need for saying that her girls are ready for marriage.