Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[Churchhoney]

She should have just written "LOL you have hair like a darkie." Sweet Jesus I cannot EVEN with these foul people.

 

I think Jessica's the one who wrote the horrifying Central America "mission trip" journal that Calvinist Pop had to pull offline eventually, wasn't she? So I guess we shouldn't be surprised.

 

She's an extremely sheltered young girl with no apparent empathy who's lived her whole life with and been raised by people who seem to be suspicious and fearful of everyone who isn't exactly like them and kinda convinced that all those people are not only wrong about everything but are in imminent danger of spending eternity being consumed-but-not-consumed by lakes of flame.

[GeeGolly]

I think Jessica's the one who wrote the horrifying Central America "mission trip" journal that Calvinist Pop had to pull offline eventually, wasn't she? So I guess we shouldn't be surprised.

 

She's an extremely sheltered young girl with no apparent empathy who's lived her whole life with and been raised by people who seem to be suspicious and fearful of everyone who isn't exactly like them and kinda convinced that all those people are not only wrong about everything but are in imminent danger of spending eternity being consumed-but-not-consumed by lakes of flame.

But not that sheltered if she is referring to certain hair styles as something African Americans do with their hair. I don't think they teach that in the Bible. She's straight up racist.

[Churchhoney]

But not that sheltered if she is referring to certain hair styles as something African Americans do with their hair. I don't think they teach that in the Bible. She's straight up racist.

 

 

 

True. I completely agree!

 

I tend to define "sheltered" a bit differently, though. I think of people as "sheltered" not just if they don't know about things outside their own personal experience but if they're enclosed in a milieu that routinely views things outside their own personal experience as categorically bad, lesser, laughable, etc. I'm pretty sure the Seewalds are and are in a milieu like that.

 

So I see a lot of racists -- especially very young ones who haven't lived on their own as adults yet -- as being "sheltered." I guess I believe that a lot of people -- not all, obviously -- would move on from racism (and other bigotries) if they really and routinely encountered the laughable or scary -- but always unreal-to-me --  "others" in a day-to-day context for a prolonged period.

 

I think JS is too young for me to know whether she's an other-hater by her own nature and choice or whether she's just a "sheltered" young know-nothing who goes along with what I expect is her family's and her milieu's uppity attitude toward other groups. Guess I should find another word for this besides "sheltered," but is there one that works and has no other easily confusable meaning? Dunno.

[Aja]

But not that sheltered if she is referring to certain hair styles as something African Americans do with their hair. I don't think they teach that in the Bible. She's straight up racist.

YUP. And I also take Churchie's point--she very likely doesn't think of herself as racist at all. I know tons of people like that. Black people are just inherently joke fodder, it has nothing to do with overtly malicious desires to oppress a race. It is SO fundamentally a part of their upbringing that they don't see how statements like that could POSSIBLY be horrible, it's just liberals and Black people being too sensitive! Slavery was a hundred years ago geez!!!!! It does come from, I think, a complete lack of empathy and complete inability to feel compassion or put yourself in someone else's shoes. In her mind, "Shaniqua" is so far removed from her reality that she barely realizes she's referencing human beings. Seriously. It's a deep and fundamental racism that is far more disturbing than, say, the theatrics of the modern-day white supremacy freaks.

[Churchhoney]

YUP. And I also take Churchie's point--she very likely doesn't think of herself as racist at all. I know tons of people like that. Black people are just inherently joke fodder, it has nothing to do with overtly malicious desires to oppress a race. It is SO fundamentally a part of their upbringing that they don't see how statements like that could POSSIBLY be horrible, it's just liberals and Black people being too sensitive! Slavery was a hundred years ago geez!!!!! It does come from, I think, a complete lack of empathy and complete inability to feel compassion or put yourself in someone else's shoes. In her mind, "Shaniqua" is so far removed from her reality that she barely realizes she's referencing human beings. Seriously. It's a deep and fundamental racism that is far more disturbing than, say, the theatrics of the modern-day white supremacy freaks.

 

So much yes to this. It's a systemic racism that's so dangerous because when it's not overt or consciously held everybody can just deny that it exists but act on it just the same. .... It's all that stuff that's unconsciously part of our neural architecture that causes the most trouble of all, I think.

 

I'd love to see more kids like JS get out of their traditional milieus and meet more people of many different kinds, because I really believe that some of them would change their views and behaviors over time if that happened. Who knows what the likelihood is in any individual case, of course?

Edited March 3, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Fosca]

So much yes to this. It's a systemic racism that's so dangerous because when it's not overt or consciously held everybody can just deny that it exists but act on it just the same. .... It's all that stuff that's unconsciously part of our neural architecture that causes the most trouble of all, I think.

 

I'd love to see more kids like JS get out of their traditional milieus and meet more people of many different kinds, because I really believe that some of them would change their views and behaviors over time if that happened. Who knows what the likelihood is in any individual case, of course?

 

I wasn't raised in fundamentalist household but I was raised in a bigoted racist one.  My dad makes Archie Bunker look like a liberal. My mom tried to leaven it a bit, but I also find that attitudes learned early are damn hard to eradicate entirely.

 

I suspect Ms. Seewald hasn't been around enough "outside" people to realize that what she posted is considered offensive--I'll bet her family says stuff like that often and/or found that remark hysterical, as the reply to the post indicated.  I might've said something similar myself, before I got away from that toxic influence.  She's still in it.

[Mollie]

Jessica's comments could have just been about Danielle's hair, because Danielle's post was about her hair braids.  According to Urban Dictionary, "The common Shaniqua has a weave that is so cheap it looks like plastic, or very long thick braids."

Edited March 3, 2016 by Mollie

[louannems]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BCbjS_HAJoo/

Here is Jessa and The Holy Infant, Spurgeon! In the car, perhaps driving to Starbucks?

How does Jessa maintain s suntan in the dead of winter?

[flyingdi]

I see Ben and his sister Jessica as just two more teenagers appropriating gangsta culture for there own use. I'm not sure I see them as racist though. I think they really have no thought on it besides "Hey, look at me, I'm young, I'm hip. Don't you think I'm cool?"

No matter how hard they try, they're really no different than thousands of other young adults/teens out there.

[cdp73]

How does Jessa maintain s suntan in the dead of winter?

I'm guessing there's a tanning bed in the Prayer Closet.

[Churchhoney]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BCbjS_HAJoo/

Here is Jessa and The Holy Infant, Spurgeon! In the car, perhaps driving to Starbucks?

How does Jessa maintain s suntan in the dead of winter?

 

A spray can? Not sure about using one on the face. But the Duggars do love their cans ...

[kokapetl]

The mini adult clothes are strange.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Kokapetl

[Jynnan tonnix]

I tend to give people a slight benefit of the doubt on matters like this (though to a lesser extent when I know they are of an extremely closed-minded background) partly because it makes me think of things my father would do. He is 84 years old now and maybe has a marginally weaker filter than he did back in the day, but he will say things that he considers cute or amusing with absolutely no regard as to how they might be perceived.

 

The thing is, though, that he's absolutely not racist in the sense of thinking any ethnic group or nationality is superior or inferior to another, just that he has a tendency to use stereotypes as a sort of "shorthand", and also enjoys jokes of any sort, really, as long as he thinks they are clever. My parents are both from Poland, and when we immigrated to the USA back in 1969, Polish jokes were a big "thing". He never found them offensive, but rather relished them, and just honestly doesn't understand why someone would find a comment made jokingly (as opposed to one made maliciously) to be offensive.

 

We try to keep him quiet or explain why he shouldn't say things the way he does, but he's mostly very dismissive of people's being, as he sees it, too sensitive.

 

He also can't understand, for example, why someone of, say, Japanese heritage would care if they were misidentified as Chinese, and it probably doesn't even occur to him that they might also be of Vietnamese or Korean or some other background. Because he seems to think it's self-evident that they are all *insert the fingers-to-temples-pulling-eyes-at-a-slant gesture* and therefore should not be bothered by someone identifying them that way.

Which is kind or ironic given that he is rabidly ​attached to his Polish roots.

 

Sometimes it's definitely a good thing that he almost always speaks Polish, so some of his comments are not picked up on. Like, recently, when he came out of having bypass surgery, apparently he woke up to see the nurse on duty who was am exceptionally dark-skinned African-American man...and he later told Mom & me (while other nurses were I the room) that his first thought was that he was already in hell. Well, he'd grown up with images of devils as little black imps...to him, it was a funny comment. The rest of us were pretty much mortified.

 

Anyway, people of younger generations (and at 57 years old, I'm including my own vintage) should definitely be aware of what they say and to practice empathy even if it's not a huge part of their natural make up, so I'm not cutting the Seewald clan any slack here, but especially for those born before the 1940's, it may be pointless to label everyone who makes insensitive comments as racist when they might, in fact, be very non-judgmental people, but just not have the background to really have a feeling for how their comments might be perceived.

 

ETA: this was in response to the whole Shaniqua mess

Edited March 3, 2016 by Jynnan tonnix

[Churchhoney]

The mini adult clothes are strange.

 

The mini adult clothes have been a big thing for a few years now (at least) among people who want to see kids dressed for looks rather than convenience and comfort. I expect that Jessa's status as a media star puts her in this category (especially during photo time)?

[redlaces]

Aww. It's a cute little flannel. Would have wiped the drool but that is adorable. 

[laurakaye]

Spurge is a cutie but the first thing I thought was, "WOW, he sure looks like a Duggar."

[BitterApple]

Spurge looks like James and Justin.

[SometimesBites]

Jessica's comments could have just been about Danielle's hair, because Danielle's post was about her hair braids.  According to Urban Dictionary, "The common Shaniqua has a weave that is so cheap it looks like plastic, or very long thick braids."

The Urban Dictionary says a whole lot of shit that should be jettisoned to the bottom of the Marianas Trench.

[GeeGolly]

The Urban Dictionary says a whole lot of shit that should be jettisoned to the bottom of the Marianas Trench.

And the definition of Shaniqua is this: (bolding mine)

 

(n.) a common name used to mock/describe a Black woman from the inner city...this name would include all of the stereotypes: long fake braids, big butt, ghetto voice

[Aja]

I don't run around screaming at people or anything, but the few times I have had a conversation about something like that I have tried to ask, with an extreme sense of unreality dizzying my brain, to simply put the shoe on the other foot. Would you think nothing of it if you saw a photo of a Black girl with her hair relaxed & highlighted and her sister commented, "Whoa, I'm surprised your name ain't Megan!" Would you feel a little wtf? Would you...perhaps...post a rant on Facebook about reverse racism? Perhaps? Would you feel somewhat indignant about reducing every single member of your race, the vast majority of whom have absolutely nothing to do with you, to a single insulting stereotype? Well, surprise. Other humans feel the same.

 

Whether Jess See-weld realizes it or not, she is racist. I give her SOMEWHAT of a pass right now, but it won't last long. She's old enough to think critically, at which point I shift the blame from the parents to the young adult.

 

ETA: I should clarify that, when I was thinking up an equivalent insulting white stereotype, I was very specifically thinking of Megan Kelley. No offense to Megans. :D

Edited March 3, 2016 by Aja

[Sew Sumi]

She also lives on her own now, so she SHOULD be forming opinions that may differ from her parents. As Aja noted, it's time for her to do some critical thinking.

[Marigold]

I don't even understand WHY the comment was even made.

Danielle said she had side braids. So what? What the heck does that have to do with a Black woman anyway? Only Black women have side braids?

It's just so illogical. Grow Up!

And yes, it does sound very racist but stupid jumps out at me first!

[Churchhoney]

I don't even understand WHY the comment was even made.

Danielle said she had side braids. So what? What the heck does that have to do with a Black woman anyway? Only Black women have side braids?

 

 

I've recently had some long-term experience with people who I'd say are insecure, belong to groups of the insecure and paranoid, and isolate themselves in a bubble in which everybody is just the same -- people that I think are like the Seewalds and their milieu. And what I saw suggests that people who are "diff'r'nt" (as they say), and other, and alien, and scary and lesser to you are always on your mind when you're like that.

 

No matter where I turned and no matter what I tried talk about -- like, Wow, this rain should be really good for the flowers! -- somebody would, apropos of nothing, suddenly make some dumb, irrelevant, nothing, mildly or seriously negative remark about African-American or immigrants or teh gays or whatever. Day in and day out, with what looked to me to be no provocation, there'd just be these stupid remarks all the time. Some like JS's stupid hair remark and some blaming people for crime rates or whatever. Just anything and everything. Drove me nuts.

 

All I could figure is that among a lot of white Protestant 'murcans today there must be just extreme supersensitivity to the very existence of a whole bunch of "other" people that they fear will take over or something. Looked to me that this anxiety is never out of some people's minds -- although I expect they don't realize it -- and it causes these odd, stupid semi- or full putdowns to erupt from their mouths.

 

This being the case, I expect that JS and most people around her erupt with stupid remarks like this constantly.

[Defrauder]

She should have just written "LOL you have hair like a darkie." Sweet Jesus I cannot EVEN with these foul people.

Damn.  I'm light skinned, blonde and have multiple braiided my long hair dozens of times for years and have never thought I had to change my name for it. They're so freaking ignorant.

[Marigold]

You're right Church, it is a culture of stupid comments and they have no clue how stupid they sound.

I read that comment over and over and still had no idea what that Jessica was even talking about or WHY she said it. To me, it's just so stupid. (how many times can I write the word "stupid"? It is the Duggar clan)

It's even stupider that she felt so comfortable with the comment that she posted it publically. She has no clue. None. Zero. Empty head.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Marigold

[frenchtoast]

Psssst....This is the Jessa, Ben and SES. Pass it on.

[NikSac]

Psssst....This is the Jessa, Ben and SES. Pass it on.

 

I like the name SES for him. :)  I mean it's not great but it's better than his other options!

[frenchtoast]

Aaaand I just see that I forgot to write topic in there. That's what happens when I'm tired and ate way too much Chinese!

 

I like the name SES for him. :)  I mean it's not great but it's better than his other options!

It's shorter, too! Also, that poor kid. But just watch, it'll turn out it's some terrible spy organization or something.

[Churchhoney]

I like the name SES for him. :)  I mean it's not great but it's better than his other options!

It's shorter, too! Also, that poor kid. But just watch, it'll turn out it's some terrible spy organization or something.

It sounds like some kind of standardized test to me. .... Not very appropriate, since I'm thinking he'll never take one.

[louannems]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BCf-aTBDfr_/

This was posted on Jessa's Instagram.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BCdtBHfDfvD/

[Aja]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BCf-aTBDfr_/

This was posted on Jessa's Instagram.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BCdtBHfDfvD/

"It would mean so much to me if you noticed me, I wouldn't be who I am without you, I love you?" YIKES. I'll say it again, leghumpers have a pretty sizable element of sadness/creepiness to them, for sure. 

 

Spurgie is one adorable baby, though. I hope he is able to keep smiling like that throughout his childhood. I hope.

[GeeGolly]

I like the name SES for him. :)  I mean it's not great but it's better than his other options!

How bizarre, cuz it stands for - Socioeconomic Status, which combines income, education, and occupation, and then compares it to others. How apropos, not apropos.

[Ljohnson1987]

Spurge is quite cute. Hope Bin and Jessa don't take his spunk away.

[Lemur]

Are Jessa and Ben big Red Sox or David Ortiz fans? That would be the only explanation why a Caucasian girl from Arkansas refers to her husband as Papi.

 

More like she can't spell worth a damn.  "Papi" and "Pappy" are pronounced the same way.  "Pappy" is a sadly stereotypical Southern nickname for "father".  

[Sew Sumi]

I would pronounce Papi and Pappy differently, due to the pronunciation of the A in Spanish.

[Defrauder]

Jessa is really getting wrinkles around her eyes early.  I really hope she notices me saying that, it would mean so much to me!  I would still be who I am without her but it would really mean a lot.  Vitamin E cream Jessa, apply daily, you can buy some cheap brands at discount stores. 

[Aja]

Jessa is really getting wrinkles around her eyes early.  I really hope she notices me saying that, it would mean so much to me!  I would still be who I am without her but it would really mean a lot.  Vitamin E cream Jessa, apply daily, you can buy some cheap brands at discount stores. 

Are you sure? I mean, she's so pretty! Inside and out!

[BitterApple]

Jessa is really getting wrinkles around her eyes early. I really hope she notices me saying that, it would mean so much to me! I would still be who I am without her but it would really mean a lot. Vitamin E cream Jessa, apply daily, you can buy some cheap brands at discount stores.

The Duggar kids age in dog years once they marry. My guess is they don't use moisturizers with SPF. I've also never seen Jill or Jessa wearing sunglasses outdoors, so they're constantly squinting in the sun. Throw in the Duggar pasty skin and it's no wonder they've got deep wrinkles in their early 20s.

[Defrauder]

Are you sure? I mean, she's so pretty! Inside and out!

Well it's hard to beat the kind of beauty that tells you that you're going to hell for all of eternity and after years and years of unbearable pain and torture you will look up to the sky and see written in fire - you are damned unchanged.  Her insides are just gorgeous. 

The Duggar kids age in dog years once they marry. My guess is they don't use moisturizers with SPF. I've also never seen Jill or Jessa wearing sunglasses outdoors, so they're constantly squinting in the sun. Throw in the Duggar pasty skin and it's no wonder they've got deep wrinkles in their early 20s.

Another guess is they spend a lot of time and money going to tanning.  The girls only of course. They have to land a man before the baby clock runs out. 

[Defrauder]

Are you sure? I mean, she's so pretty! Inside and out!

Hey we're still going to lunch right?  We can talk about how much she means to us and how we wouldn't be who we are without her.  It would be a blast. 

[duggarshow]

More like she can't spell worth a damn.  "Papi" and "Pappy" are pronounced the same way.  "Pappy" is a sadly stereotypical Southern nickname for "father".  

 

Nah. Papi is pronounced to rhyme wth sloppy.Pappy is pronounced to rhyme with Nappy.

[Defrauder]

The following words of wisdom are not to my credit.  I wouldn't be the same if they were.  

 

Hey Jessa! It would mean so much to me if you noticed me. You are so kind and really pretty! I think that you are a good mother, wife, daughter, and christen. I hope that you you read this because I am the #1 Jessa Seewald fan. How is Spurgeon doing? He is so cute! I hope that Ben is doing good. He seems really nice to you. I am just letting you know your family is in my prayers. I love you so much! You are also pretty inside and out! You are so awesome! You are really special because you are different. If you weren't alive, I wouldn't be who I am. I just hope that you respond to this and again, I love you! ~

 

My favorite parts: christian spelled incorrectly, but ok.  I hope that Ben is doing good. He SEEMS really nice to you. If you weren't alive I wouldn't be who I am. 

[duggarshow]

I would pronounce Papi and Pappy differently, due to the pronunciation of the A in Spanish.

LOL!! I just said essentially the same thing.

[Sew Sumi]

The following words of wisdom are not to my credit.  I wouldn't be the same if they were.  

 

Hey Jessa! It would mean so much to me if you noticed me. You are so kind and really pretty! I think that you are a good mother, wife, daughter, and christen. I hope that you you read this because I am the #1 Jessa Seewald fan. How is Spurgeon doing? He is so cute! I hope that Ben is doing good. He seems really nice to you. I am just letting you know your family is in my prayers. I love you so much! You are also pretty inside and out! You are so awesome! You are really special because you are different. If you weren't alive, I wouldn't be who I am. I just hope that you respond to this and again, I love you! ~

 

My favorite parts: christian spelled incorrectly, but ok.  I hope that Ben is doing good. He SEEMS really nice to you. If you weren't alive I wouldn't be who I am. 

To be fair, she's probably a 12 year-old student of the SOTDRT. Seriously, I've checked out some of the fan pages on Instagram, and they're pretty much all run by girls aged 13-16. 

[Lemur]

Nah. Papi is pronounced to rhyme wth sloppy.Pappy is pronounced to rhyme with Nappy.

 

Yes, in reality they are.  

[Tabbygirl521]

The following words of wisdom are not to my credit. I wouldn't be the same if they were.

Hey Jessa! It would mean so much to me if you noticed me. You are so kind and really pretty! I think that you are a good mother, wife, daughter, and christen. I hope that you you read this because I am the #1 Jessa Seewald fan. How is Spurgeon doing? He is so cute! I hope that Ben is doing good. He seems really nice to you. I am just letting you know your family is in my prayers. I love you so much! You are also pretty inside and out! You are so awesome! You are really special because you are different. If you weren't alive, I wouldn't be who I am. I just hope that you respond to this and again, I love you! ~

My favorite parts: christian spelled incorrectly, but ok. I hope that Ben is doing good. He SEEMS really nice to you. If you weren't alive I wouldn't be who I am.

Yeesh! I would be entirely freaked out if I were Jessa or Ben.

[Sew Sumi]

Yes, in reality they are.  

Then every baseball fan, sports broadcaster, ESPN employee, etc. has been pronouncing David Ortiz's nickname, Big Papi, wrong for the last twenty years. 

 

Oops! 

[Fosca]

If it weren't for the crow's-feet, I'd say Jessa's skin tone owes more to foundation than to the sun.

 

And yeah, some of the comments read like they're coming from Annie Wilkes headed out to get the sledgehammer.  Not very reassuring, to me anyway.

[Sew Sumi]

You know Jessa eats that shit up. She's every bit as narcissistic as her mother. And we all know that she can't take criticism, even if isn't even on her own page! I was banned for merely posting on one of the Duggar snark IG pages (and I still am not sure which one). I don't think I was even talking about HER, for crying out loud! 

 

She is all about the ass-lickers, which is sad. eta: Even sadder, she will never respond to any of their comments; it's definitely a one-way street with her. Hell, even Famy engages with her "followers."

Edited March 4, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[GeeGolly]

To be fair, she's probably a 12 year-old student of the SOTDRT. Seriously, I've checked out some of the fan pages on Instagram, and they're pretty much all run by girls aged 13-16. 

Which is scary in and of itself.