S01.E05: The Season of the Witch

[formerlyfreedom]

Box reconstructs Naz’s whereabouts on “the night of.”

 

[Primetimer]

Or it's both, but 'The Season Of The Witch' improves the proportions.

View the full article

[The Hound Lives]

Dammit! DAMMIT! 
Just when I was feeling hopefully Freddy wanted Naz for an intellectual sparing partner, he becomes a mule. Damn. I loved that John caught on, and understood why but also highlighted the implications. 
I missed something...did Naz admit to taking something before Andrea gave him the pill? 

Loved the mix of investigation with the prison stuff. Holy shit, Naz is quickly losing himself. Not as if he has much of a choice right now. It was hard to watch him go after Charlene's Uncle and even harder to watch him down castor oil and shit out the drugs. 
Stone is showing he is capable, even if he doesn't have resources. 

[Brooklynista]

Nars didn't have much trouble slipping into Maria Full Of Grace mode did he? I guess it was too much to ask of Freddie to just want to help the doe eyed inmate.  Perhaps Freddie saw the true nature of  Naz right from the start that I missed.   The shaved head and shower beatdown scared me a bit. 

As someone with shy bowels, I was surprised at how easily Naz was able to release the drugs in front of watching eyes. Castor oil or not, my intestines would have locked up for weeks!

Shallow note: I am always here for a shirtless Treach. That man is aging beautifully. Yum!

[Ellaria]

Ahh, we are finally getting somewhere. The various players are actually investigating the crime and/or laying out their plans at trial.

I'm having huge problems with Jeannie Berlin's manner of speaking and articulation; I've turned on closed captioning to help figure it out. I wish we had more information about her character. Right now she is being written as "the over zealous prosecutor" and, IMO, it isn't going to end with a win for her.

Maybe it's just because I am hoping to see it but Box appears to be re-examining some of his evidence. At the very least, he is deliberate when pulling together his timeline and evidence. And that's as it should be. But this case - which may be his last - is giving him pause. His long looks at those security cameras will eventually lead him to find out what Stone already knows: Trevor was lying and Duane Reed should be a person of interest.

Kudos to Stone for rescuing the not-ugly kitty and buying her presents. I hope that there is a litter box in that room; otherwise, Dwight will find lots of little surprises during his next visit.

Naz is either revealing his true self or becoming what circumstances have driven him to become. Regardless, I'm intrigued by his transformation...but only to a point. I don't want to watch Oz Revisited.

Two questions:

1. Did we see or know that Naz took Adderall on his own?
2. The guy in the bar that Stone confronted was Andrea's dealer? How did Stone find him/know about him?

Edited August 8, 2016 by Ellaria Sand

[AuntiePam]

4 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Two questions:

1. Did we see or know that Naz took Aderol on his own?
2. The guy in the bar that Stone confronted was Andrea's dealer? How did Stone find him/know about him?

1.  Not that I remember.

2.  Stone had Andrea's phone records. 

Question #3:  We saw Naz swallow three packets, yet he insisted there were four.  I don't think he swallowed two at once -- he had a hard enough time with one.  Why would he lie?  Or was he so stressed out that he thought there were four?

[formerlyfreedom]

2 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

We saw Naz swallow three packets, yet he insisted there were four.  I don't think he swallowed two at once -- he had a hard enough time with one.  Why would he lie?  Or was he so stressed out that he thought there were four?

 

I went back and watched that scene again. It looked like it was possible that he had four little balloons in his hand (the fourth would have just been a tiny sliver at the end of the shot). As far as for how many we watch him swallow, it may just be just an editing thing?

[beaker73]

11 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

1.  Not that I remember.

2.  Stone had Andrea's phone records. 

Question #3:  We saw Naz swallow three packets, yet he insisted there were four.  I don't think he swallowed two at once -- he had a hard enough time with one.  Why would he lie?  Or was he so stressed out that he thought there were four?

Good question.  He defintely swallowed three, but when back in the cell Petey confirmed four. Not sure what's going on there. 

[AuntiePam]

But they seemed content to be getting three, so if there were supposed to be four -- ??  I guess it's not important, except that if stress causes Naz to forget things, that might explain some of his behavior.

Something else that's just occurred to me -- if Naz killed Andrea, he could have showered afterwards, explaining why there wasn't more blood on him, just the scratches on his back.  But he took his clothes off in the bedroom, so there would surely have been some blood on his clothes.  And there wasn't.

[The Hound Lives]

37 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

Something else that's just occurred to me -- if Naz killed Andrea, he could have showered afterwards, explaining why there wasn't more blood on him, just the scratches on his back.  But he took his clothes off in the bedroom, so there would surely have been some blood on his clothes.  And there wasn't.

I am waiting to hear if there was blood in the bathroom. So far, nothing about that has been said. Even if he did shower, considering the excessive blood, there would've been blood in that bathroom somewhere, like the shower faucet. And there would have been a trail of blood, even specs, on the way to the bathroom. 
One thing that stands out a bit too is that Andrea was stabbed in her stomach, correct? But found on her stomach? 

I gotta admit, I will be disappointed if Naz did do it. He kills her, showers, wakes up dry and (partially) clothed and collects the knife from the table that he placed back there after he showered? 

[numbnut]

1 hour ago, The Hound Lives said:

I missed something...did Naz admit to taking something before Andrea gave him the pill? 

I think he nodded when Stone mentioned Adderall.

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Two questions:

1. Did we see or know that Naz took Aderol on his own?
2. The guy in the bar that Stone confronted was Andrea's dealer? How did Stone find him/know about him?

1. I don't think so. And I don't recall Naz keeping a vial of K in his pocket. Did the first ep hide this so we can't figure out whodunnit before the ending?

2. Stone got his number from Andrea's phone records. Some canvassing can establish if he's a dealer.

I yelled "No!" when Naz shaved his head. No more doe-eyed innocence in court. Did he shave and now sleeps like a baby because he's given up?

Edited August 8, 2016 by numbnut

[Brooklynista]

Stone really showed how in tune he is to the prison life by never blinking yet seeing all that was going down with Naz and the passing of the drugs in that visiting room. Poor Chandra was five steps behind just trying to figure out what Naz was focused on.

[bagatelle]

Why would a guy, lying on a bathroom floor, who has just been beat up by the first guy, start to goad the second guy, who only kicked him once. That's asking for a beating.  That's nuts.

[Superpole2000]

21 minutes ago, bagatelle said:

Why would a guy, lying on a bathroom floor, who has just been beat up by the first guy, start to goad the second guy, who only kicked him once. That's asking for a beating.  That's nuts.

Yes, that made no sense. Also, I didn't buy the ending of the episode. It was an implausible eyeroll-inducing conclusion to an otherwise really good episode.

[scrb]

Something doesn't add up about Stone.

He billed $60k for the year, didn't collect almost half of it.  Yet he has a big enough NY apt. that he could let the kitty pollute one room with allergens.

And he always has cash, to order champagne and to bribe people.

Lastly, WTF is he doing trying to confront the guy who may be the murderer by himself?  If he had to beat him with the tire iron to defend himself, what would it do to his case?

[FemmyV]

Could be rent-controlled, could have a small portfolio/trust fund. 

[bagatelle]

Also, he's not spending money on clothes and cars. He seems to have a very simple lifestyle.

[lucindabelle]

The cat is saved! At least for now. Naz is a softie. He bought her toys! I freaking HATED those obnoxious kids and the teacher who didn't help. Sooooo disrespectful like she was goading the kids on.

 

i didn't like the me essentially agreeing to lie.

but I do like the cops realizing that not pleading is worryingl

i gasped when he said ketamine. It's a serious tranquilizer and yeah if someone gave you that you could definitely sleep through anmurder. 

[loki567]

Yeah, I'm surprised with the tone of the show that they'd go full chase scene at the end. That was stupid. I hope the finale doesn't have Stone engage in a life or death struggle with the real killer in the last 20 minutes. 

I liked the reveal that Naz was on Adderall. Paints a fuller picture and this was the guy who's first instinct was to run from the murder scene and nearly walk out of the police station. 

[Noirprncess]

Naz's transformation is almost complete.  He's found his crowd in jail.  I thought it was interesting that he was willing to test out his level of influence/protection by standing up in the tv room.  Just as funny is that they used rappers/actors as the prison population.  This week it was Trench from Naughty by Nature as the guy about to beat Naz up for standing in front of the tv.  This goes to show that Naz might not have been as naive as we have been led to think in the pilot.  He's also a little reckless.

We knew Charlene's uncle wasn't all there mentally.  He just couldn't help himself when Naz kicked him then tried to walk away.  He had to goad him a little.  But it makes me wonder if Freddy was truly behind the set up and interaction after all.  While Freddy might not have scripted the incident, he may have purposefully selected an unhinged person knowing the potential end results.  There always seems to be that one person willing to make themselves a sacrificial lamb.

It seems that Naz was trying to break from the family tradition too OR quietly has been in some sort of trouble before.  I think they were hinting at that with his switching from a local college in Queens to one in another borough.  He's 23, so shouldn't he have graduated by now?. Or is he floundering educationally unlike his brother?

I love that Stone figured out he was swallowing (muling).  John seems to have a bit of a death wish through which seems to come from battle with eczema.  I cracked up at his chasing work away from his fave pro because he got a baggy full of viagra from his drug hook up faster than the legit pharmacy.  He has an interesting exposure to street smarts including his own street pharmacy usage.

I bet John was at some point a big time attorney who lost everything.  All that's left from his past is the big apartment.

[scrb]

I also don't buy that Freddy just wants Naz as his mule.

He's helping him a lot if it was just for some 8-balls.

He's got other flunkeys and guards under his payroll.  Why get Naz his own cell and train him as well as protect him?  Just to be a mule?

Maybe Naz lets him win in chess or something but they haven't shown them engaged in some book discussion or anything.

[Noirprncess]

I don't think it was about making Naz a mule.  It was about seeing how serious and far Naz was willing to go to maintain his protection deal with Freddy.  Debt isn't always repaid in cash as this show has shown in a few different ways.  Stone's prostitute client is one example.  Prison debt is the same way.   I took the beating up of Charlene's uncle and mule deal as Freddy trying different areas to see where Naz fits into his "organization".  

[Brooklynista]

Stone seems seasoned enough to know you don't approach a Duane Reade in a back alley  and tell him "Trevor told me that YOU...". That's a good way to get a witness killed.

[Neurochick]

9 hours ago, Brooklynista said:

Shallow note: I am always here for a shirtless Treach. That man is aging beautifully. Yum!

I thought that was  Treach in the TV room when Naz changed the channel to Ellen?  (Really Naz, Ellen?)

I think Freddy might have created a monster.  Maybe that's why he chose Naz, to create someone in his image.

Stone's apartment is probably rent control or rent stabilized.

My cable screwed up at the very end, what happened? 

Re the "Dead Penis," wonder if that was HBO going, "here's your full frontal male nudity for you."

Edited August 8, 2016 by Neurochick

[stagmania]

6 hours ago, bagatelle said:

Why would a guy, lying on a bathroom floor, who has just been beat up by the first guy, start to goad the second guy, who only kicked him once. That's asking for a beating.  That's nuts.

He was posturing. Pride, ego, saving face, etc. Typical tough guy stuff.

12 minutes ago, Brooklynista said:

Stone seems seasoned enough to know you don't approach a Duane Reade in a back alley  and tell him "Trevor told me that YOU...". That's a good way to get a witness killed.

That whole sequence was just bizarre. Why the hell would Stone spook the guy and send him into hiding? And if he actually got into a physical altercation with him, wouldn't that damage the case? The whole episode I was impressed with his investigative skills, and then they threw that out to have a dumb chase scene.

What struck me in the scene with Box reconstructing the timeline was that Naz told the truth-at every point, his story matched the records. I expect that to give Box pause and drive him to consider more seriously the possibility that Naz is telling the truth about the rest.

[Boilergal]

8 hours ago, numbnut said:

1. I don't think so. And I don't recall Naz keeping a vial of K in his pocket. Did the first ep hide this so we can't figure out whodunnit before the ending?

 

Andrea pulled he vial out and they snorted it off her thumb, then put it on the table.  When Naz went back into her apt for the keys he picked the vial up off the table when he picked up the knife.  

[TaraS1]

I really enjoy this series, but they almost lost me with the visiting room shenanigans.  The hand-off and swallowing of the drugs was about as subtle as a sledgehammer to the head, but no guards saw it?  Even taking into account that the main guard in Freddy's pocket is obviously going to look the other way, aren't there tons of surveillance cameras in prison visiting rooms that are being monitored by other staff?  If most everyone who works there belongs to Freddy, then why even bother trying to be stealth about it?  It was so unbelievable that it took me completely out of the scene and I had to go back and watch again to catch the dialogue.

I won't even get started on how stupid and unbelievable that chase scene was at the end.  But man, I love John Turturro in this.

[sadiegirl]

I really enjoyed the first episode but they are losing me with each subsequent episode. I was promised a mystery but I feel so little time is spent on actually putting the case together and figuring out what really happened that night, that we will never find out what actually happened.  Which is OK, if that's how this was advertised.  I feel I was mislead.  Don't know if I'm going to watch the rest.

[Shenanigan]

At this point I'm fairly certain that Stone's eczema is going to solve the case, considering all the screen time it's getting.

[clb1016]

So far I don't think anyone's mentioned Richard Price's cameo (selling Stone the bootleg Viagra).

[Neurochick]

52 minutes ago, sadiegirl said:

I really enjoyed the first episode but they are losing me with each subsequent episode. I was promised a mystery but I feel so little time is spent on actually putting the case together and figuring out what really happened that night, that we will never find out what actually happened.  Which is OK, if that's how this was advertised.  I feel I was mislead.  Don't know if I'm going to watch the rest.

I don't know, but I never thought the show was going to be about finding out who did it.  I always thought the show was about someone who gets caught up in the criminal justice system.  At this point, I almost don't care who did it.

[Drogo]

36 minutes ago, Shenanigan said:

Stone's eczema is going to solve the case, considering all the screen time it's getting.

You got it, honey!  The case cracker!

 

Also, "Season of the Witch" is a classic and repeats "You got to pick up every stitch" many times... meaning you can't leave behind any hair/blood/fingerprints or the witches will use it to cast a spell on you.  I love the parallel with crime scene investigation and having Fisher Stevens' snarky pharmacist as the title's deliverer.

[numbnut]

2 hours ago, Boilergal said:

10 hours ago, numbnut said:

I don't recall Naz keeping a vial of K in his pocket. Did the first ep hide this so we can't figure out whodunnit before the ending?

Andrea pulled he vial out and they snorted it off her thumb, then put it on the table.  When Naz went back into her apt for the keys he picked the vial up off the table when he picked up the knife.  

Thanks!

Naz's rage issues feel late IMO. I need to rewatch previous eps but it seems like there were opportunities for him to lose his shit on camera, like after the bomb comment in ep 1. Wouldn't he also have a reputation for his hair-trigger temper?

[Neurochick]

5 minutes ago, numbnut said:

Naz's rage issues feel late IMO. I need to rewatch previous eps but it seems like there were opportunities for him to lose his shit on camera, like after the bomb comment in ep 1. Wouldn't he also have a reputation for his hair-trigger temper?

I think what happened with Naz, as with most people, is that they have anger inside of them.  Anger is a normal emotion, and given the right set of circumstances, "the beast" will emerge.  I can't say I blame Naz for being angry; in fact, if he weren't angry I'd think something seriously wrong with him. 

Naz probably has no reputation for a hair trigger temper because the right, or wrong set of circumstances have never presented itself.

One question I have, I don't know what anger "issues" mean.  Anger is a normal emotion.  Does having anger "issues" mean that someone just loses their temper at times?  Not being snarky, just asking.

[scrb]

Even rent-stabilized, you're talking about $33k before taxes.

Then there's the expensive eczema care and the drugs.  He doesn't work for anyone so is he having to pay cash for the doctor and the drugs?  Or have one of those high-deductible health insurance plans where he's paying thousands out of pocket?

On Friends, most of the characters were struggling to make ends meet but Monica and Rachel's actual apartment in Greenwich Village is worth well into 8 figures.

Maybe they should have set this in Rhode Island or some other low-cost area.

[Neurochick]

6 minutes ago, scrb said:

Even rent-stabilized, you're talking about $33k before taxes.

It could be rent control.  Not everybody who lives in Manhattan makes six figures.

 

7 minutes ago, scrb said:

Maybe they should have set this in Rhode Island or some other low-cost area.

Why?  To me, I'm interested in the story.  I don't sweat the small stuff like, "how can they afford that apartment?"  However, if the story sucks, then I will sweat the small stuff.

[Shriekingeel]

Or some of Stone's clientele of drug dealers can be paying in cash, off books. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I never thought the show was going to be about finding out who did it.  I always thought the show was about someone who gets caught up in the criminal justice system.

Then they should have called this show something else. "The Night Of," as a title, strongly suggests the story revolves around what happened that night. Not what happens afterwards as a result of it. 

That said, I thought this episode was somewhat of an improvement over the last few, in that they finally seem to be getting somewhere close to actually finding out what happened The Night Of. Still, watching Nasir evolve into a stone-cold inmate is a story I've seen dozens of times already. As someone mentioned above, I'm not interested in watching an Oz redux. 

[Neurochick]

22 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Then they should have called this show something else. "The Night Of," as a title, strongly suggests the story revolves around what happened that night. Not what happens afterwards as a result of it. 

I saw it as "The Night Of" changed Naz' life forever.

[izabella]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

One question I have, I don't know what anger "issues" mean.  Anger is a normal emotion.  Does having anger "issues" mean that someone just loses their temper at times?  Not being snarky, just asking.

Having anger issues means a person can't or doesn't control their anger.  Everyone gets angry at times, and everyone flies off the handle at time.  However, people with anger issues go to anger as their default emotion and never, ever look at what it is about.  They go off on other people for little or no reason, even if they themselves are the ones who caused whatever problem (ex., dude forgets to put gas in the car so he and his passenger are stranded somewhere.  He starts mo-fo'ing at his passenger, blaming them for needing a ride). 

I think of anger issues like this:  one person has a bad day and comes home grumpy and bangs around the garage or kitchen for a while.  Eventually, they get a grip and it passes.   Or he talks to his family and feels better.  The person with anger issues comes home and takes it out on his family and kicks the dog.

[Neurochick]

2 minutes ago, izabella said:

I think of anger issues like this:  one person has a bad day and comes home grumpy and bangs around the garage or kitchen for a while.  Eventually, they get a grip and it passes.   Or he talks to his family and feels better.  The person with anger issues comes home and takes it out on his family and kicks the dog.

More like a problem than an issue.

I don't think Naz has an anger problem though, considering the situation he's in.

I did notice that Naz went off on crazy uncle, after he called Naz the "f" word.

[izabella]

I don't think Naz has anger issues or anger problem.  I think he's doing what he can to survive in prison, and what goes on in prison can cause a person to feel justified anger (and fear, etc.).  Even more so if he is innocent.

[Ellaria]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Then they should have called this show something else. "The Night Of," as a title, strongly suggests the story revolves around what happened that night. Not what happens afterwards as a result of it. 

 

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I saw it as "The Night Of" changed Naz' life forever.

The problem for me is not the name. "The Night Of" can equally refer to the night of the event (the crime) AND the night that changes Naz and his family forever. 

My problem is in the actual telling of this story and the balance between all that it is trying to communicate. Even though this isn't L&O:SVU, there are going to be complaints when the show opens with commission of a brutal murder and doesn't get around to revisiting the specifics of that murder until Episodes 4 and 5. As a viewer, I know that I need to manage my expectations (and the need for answers) against the realities and inequities of the criminal justice system. I know that this crime may not be resolved satisfactorily or the way that I want it to be resolved. However, I would prefer to see troubling moments like the scene between the prosecutor (Helen) and the ME rather than more scenes of Stone, Viagra and his favorite call girl. Also, what was the point of the scene between Naz' father and the co-owners of the taxi? It is was nearly identical to the scene that appeared in an earlier episode and ended with the same lack of definitive action.

As far as character perspective, we learned a lot about Box in his brief discussion with Helen about his planned retirement. We don't have a corresponding scene that tells us about Helen. Instead, we have moments with her pronouncing that the murder was premeditated because Naz didn't ask Andrea to leave his cab. I would like to learn something that tells us why she approaches her job as she does.

I'm fine with being told that this show isn't a typical police procedural. If that's the case then don't give me the scene of Stone walking into dark alleys with a crowbar after a drug dealer/possible murderer because, IMO, that was ridiculous.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Ellaria Sand

[guilfoyleatpp]

I just talked with Mr. G about the anger thing. I totally get it. First of all, Naz is a young man, and young men generally are quicker to anger and have greater difficulty controlling it...generally.  Not all, not everyone, but generally.

Naz has been railroaded into jail, out of school, terrified for weeks and it's all based on something terrible that he didn't do or doesn't remember doing. He's fucked. Anyone would be angry about that.

Creepy uncle misled him, lied to him, made him doubt whether or not others were looking out for him during a time when Naz was extremely vulnerable. Add that bit. And then, CU injured him! And why?!

Then, CU is beaten to shit and Naz takes a token kick and CU taunts him? CU is trying to prove that Naz is a wimp and basically by kicking him once, Naz affirms that. So CU rolls the dice that Naz isn't going to do more and tries to keep his own cred. So Naz, from the finding a chick he liked dead to being sent to jail away from his family to this terrifying setting to being misled and then taunted - he took it out on CU. 

It's not a rage issue, it's a reaction within the range of normal, to my way of thinking.

[Neurochick]

29 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I would like to learn something that tells us why she approaches her job as she does.

For me, I don't need that.  She wants to win, and she's looking for ways to ensure that she will win.  She's thinking about how she will sell this to the jury.  

 

30 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

If that's the case then don't give me the scene of Stone walking into dark alleys with a crowbar after a drug dealer/possible murderer because, IMO, that was ridiculous.

That scene was silly and felt like it was from some another show, but I still think it's funny the guy's name is Duane Reade.  Those are actually two street names in lower Manhattan.

[Knuckles]

I loved the look on Stone's face as he watched the drug transfer...he knew exactly what the deal was. And his best line.."we don't know him". Exactly, and this is the writing that Price is known for...we have been largely led to think that Naz is probably innocent, and that the justice system and its players are going to railroad him because of circumstantial evidence...i.e. running from the cops, holding onto the bloody knife, breaking into Andrea's house and going back for the knife...But, we don't really know him at all. We saw him as a nerdy kid getting verbally smacked while cleaning up for the basketball team. And an excited young man wanting to go to a party in Manhattan with presumably hot chicks. And taking his father's cab when his ride fell through. Nothing that would really set off any alarms. But really, we don't know him. 

[guilfoyleatpp]

I wondered if the steroids made Stone impulsive in that way...tracking down a known knife attacker...

[Neurochick]

3 minutes ago, Knuckles said:

Nothing that would really set off any alarms. But really, we don't know him. 

For me, it still doesn't set off any alarms just because of the situation Naz is in.  Anger is not a bad emotion, it's a necessary one and right now Naz has to survive prison.  He doesn't know what will happen to him, he doesn't know if he'll ever get out.  To me, he's doing what he can to survive a very brutal situation. 

[Princess Sparkle]

14 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

For me, I don't need that.  She wants to win, and she's looking for ways to ensure that she will win.  She's thinking about how she will sell this to the jury.  

 

That scene was silly and felt like it was from some another show, but I still think it's funny the guy's name is Duane Reade.  Those are actually two street names in lower Manhattan.

Wait, his name actually is Duane Reade?  As in, he's named after the drug store?

[Brooklynista]

14 minutes ago, Princess Sparkle said:

Wait, his name actually is Duane Reade?  As in, he's named after the drug store?

I'm sure it has a more innocent spelling like Dwayne Reed. But what parent would do that to a kid on nyc??

Edited August 8, 2016 by Brooklynista