S01.E03: A Dark Crate

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Naz waits to be arraigned at Rikers Island, where a particular inmate is crucial to his fate.

[Primetimer]

But who will prevail, the prosecution or the defense? Sarah D. Bunting reviews the evidence.

View the full article

[The Hound Lives]

I know I am not the only one who thought Naz was going to be raped when he went to the bathroom at the end. Holy shit, I was "NO! NO! NO!"-ing to my tv during the whole sequence. 
I loved the introduction of Glenna Headly but damn, if Stone didn't call it when he told Chandra she was a "prop". I really felt for him. He doesn't have the flash of the big name lawyers. How can he compete with that? He can't and he knows it. He also can't afford to do pro-bono work but he is in far enough now that I am sure he isn't going to give up looking into things on his own. 
My heart breaks for his family. His poor Mom during the visit at the prison. I was so uncomfortable for her during that search. 

Freddy offering Naz protection in exchange for what? Are we to believe there aren't any strings attached? I thought the conversation about Tito's daughters party made it pretty clear that all protection comes with a price. Even if it's veal. I can't help but wonder if he is sick or dying or something more is going on there. The guard he was having sex with game him medication, which very well could be drugs to sell like Oxy but she asked how he was doing, as if concerned about his well-being. Michael K. Williams is so good. Loved all the "bit" players too. The guard, the bed mate next to Naz. This just feels so real. 

 

[Muffyn]

I really hope Nasir didn't kill the woman.  I find myself feeling for him more and more.  I want to give him a hug and assure him everything will be alright and then find a way to actually make everything alright.

This show does an excellent job of capturing the mood of locations.  Rikers feels so claustrophobic, which should go without saying for a prison, but most shows make them feel roomier and brighter.  I was terrified for Nasir in the shower.  So often in prison dramas, his being alone in a shower would equal a beat down or sexual assault.  Again in a scene with no dialog he expressed so many different emotions.   

There are things in the story that do feel cliché.  The Big Bad controlling the prison.  The guards being in the Big Bad's pocket.  Been there, done that.  But the other characters feel very authentic.  Also, they are addressing Nasir being Pakistani and Muslim in ways that feel both organic and disturbing. 

I went from liking John Turturro's character to despising him (soooo sleazy trying to get money out of Nasir's  parents) to feeling sorry for him (a little, still wiping off the oiliness from earlier).

Edited July 25, 2016 by Muffyn

[LoveLeigh]

I did not enjoy this episode at all. It veered away from the main mystery and seemed like an episode of the old HBO series, Oz. I think that if it moves to an inside look at Riker's  and all the abuse and corruption that goes on in that jail and then moves far off course, it will seem like a different show.

And what started out as an excellent series could become generic and seem almost like a film version of "60 Days In."

[Maire]

Omar coming! That can't be good news.

[The Hound Lives]

12 minutes ago, Muffyn said:

I went from liking John Turturro's character to despising him (soooo sleazy trying to get money out of Nasir's  parents) to feeling sorry for him (a little, still wiping off the oiliness from earlier).

I hated him for trying to milk the money from Naz's parents, too. But then the flip-side of this, the new Lawyer (Allison?) might be doing this free but I don't believe for one second it is out of the goodness of her heart. It was shown early on that she is a high profile attorney who is in the media spotlight, this will be exploited for all it's worth. Meaning the Khan family will be exploited, as well. Of course, it's a high profile case no matter what but add in a big name lawyer, and this will be splashed all over national/international television. Add in her pulling Chandra, a young Indian lawyer chosen by Allison surely because of her ethnic background and look, a media circus means Naz won't only be tried by a jury but the world over. I am such a cynic. 

4 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

I did not enjoy this episode at all. It veered away from the main mystery and seemed like an episode of the old HBO series, Oz. I think that if it moves to an inside look at Riker's  and all the abuse and corruption that goes on in that jail and then moves far off course, it will seem like a different show.

And what started out as an excellent series could become generic and seem almost like a film version of "60 Days In."

I get how this episode could be viewed as generic or even a filler episode. Right now there are a few different stories being told (Rikers, the Khan family, John, new lawyer, etc...). I don't know if this story was solely based on the murder investigation (instead all facets from start to finish) would sustain 8 episodes. They would really have to drag out every painful detail. I don't think it's just about the mystery but all the cogs in the wheel that bring it full circle. 

[kieyra]

Hmm. The pilot was fantastic but they're not maintaining that intensity. I know people expressed concerns about this turning into Oz--and there's a reason I never watched Oz. 

I can get "kooky lawyer" on Better Call Saul. (Although these days that means Chuck too, so maybe Stone is better. But I'm so over the eczema.)

I understand why some find Naz and the actor compelling, but he has so little dialogue I'm having a very hard time engaging with him. He and his parents all seem stunned into a complete stupor--which is understandable but not that interesting to watch. ALL of the dialogue is a little too minimalist for me. I guess this is a "director's" show, but unless they absolutely knock it out of the park, like in the pilot, a lot of those subtleties are lost on me.

The prison-menace stuff was all so by the book that in the end I was more concerned for the cat. Thanks for taking it to a kill shelter, asshole. And yes, I get the freaking allegory.

Edited July 25, 2016 by kieyra

[Knuckles]

9 minutes ago, Muffyn said:

despising him (soooo sleazy trying to get money out of Nasir's  parents)

No lawyer works for free. A murder one case...50k did not sound like much. Talking money upfront with his parents was necessary...the alternative is Legal Aid, and they are underfunded and overloaded.  Khan's parents do not have much ready cash...and the introduction to the criminal justice system is a brutal awakening, from the bored guards to the invasive if necessary body searches of visitors, to the costs involved. A lot of defendants on serious charges have no resources and must rely on Legal Aid... with no disrespect to Legal Aid lawyers, who do their best with incredibly limited resources. Judicial outcomes can be very different if you can afford to mount an extensive defense. That's a fact.

The pro-bono attorney...I'm guessing this is a serious move for her...a high profile case, with lots of political overtones, and constant media attention. It could make her career...or catapult her into politics. Been done before. That's the big payoff she smells. Whether Khan is found innocent or guilty...she becomes a constant TV presence and that might be a win win for her. It's not only the young attorney who's a prop...it's Khan and his family and ultimately his community. No lawyer works for free...it's just how they collect that differs.

[Drogo]

Crisco and Saran Wrap.

Still better than most dermatologist advice.

[helent]

Quote

Tevas McGee

I spent a while trying to work out how a reference here to Travis McGee made sense before realising it was a reference to the sandals.

[humbleopinion]

Did you catch the kid brother of Steve Buscemi, Michael, in the eczema support group?

Family resemblance but hard to believe Michael is only 3 years younger.

[The Hound Lives]

20 minutes ago, kieyra said:

I understand why some find Naz and the actor compelling, but he has so little dialogue I'm having a very hard time engaging with him.

Why I find Riz Ahmed compelling...the show helps but hot damn, this is good.

[kieyra]

Oh, I have zero doubt of the actor's skill. I just want to see more.

[The Hound Lives]

3 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Oh, I have zero doubt of the actor's skill. I just want to see more.

Oh I know...I do, too! I think we will see more but feel that Naz is right now in that "fish out of water" part of his plot. All the moving parts are elsewhere. Once he learns to how it works on the inside, I hope we do. I would really love for him to be able to tell his fucking story of what happened but it's like nobody cares or, maybe it truly is as John said, nobody cares about his truth. 

[Princess Sparkle]

Well, now I can see where Naz's utter naïveté comes from. I alternated between cringing and screaming in frustration when Naz's dad went on about how Allison Crowe was helping them out of the goodness of her heart.  I fully recognize that Stone appears to be a bit of an ambulance-chaser, but at this point, I still trust him over Crowe.

I'm curious to see how Michael K Williams fits into the larger story.  You don't hire him just to give Naz prison advice and possible protection.

Minor thing - I realize it was in service to make the "Cairo, Egypt or Cairo, Illinois" turn of phrase, but clearly no one on the show is actually from Illinois, or they would know that the town here is pronounced "Cay-ro". 

[WaltersHair]

Like an idiot, I watched OZ all those years ago and I'm still scarred by it. I'm not kidding. Whenever that guy shows up on the insurance commercials all I can think of is What Supremacist Dude. Same with the CSI Special victims guy and Edie Falco.

So, thank you show for sparing us the obligatory 'don't drop the soap in the shower' routine. Oldest prison trope on earth.

[numbnut]

2 hours ago, The Hound Lives said:

I know I am not the only one who thought Naz was going to be raped when he went to the bathroom at the end. Holy shit, I was "NO! NO! NO!"-ing to my tv during the whole sequence. 

IKR? It was like a horror movie. I was like, "Hurry up! Finish your shower and get out of there!" I hate prison settings and never watched Oz, but I'll white-knuckle it for this show.

Quote

Freddy offering Naz protection in exchange for what?

I hope the answer is more interesting than sex.

Quote

in the end I was more concerned for the cat. Thanks for taking it to a kill shelter, asshole.

I'm hoping Stone will do a last-minute rescue and get some allergy meds.

I love Glenne Headly. Can't want to see how her character's true colors will be revealed to Naz and his parents.

Edited July 25, 2016 by numbnut

[Superpole2000]

I am semi-interested in the prison stuff, but I am way more interested in the murder scene/mystery, investigation, and trial. I hope I don't have to sit through another couple of prison life episodes. I would hope that this show has a more interesting story arc in mind than just depicting that unpleasantness.

This show doesn't skimp on the detail, but I found that quality far more appealing in the first episode. Now the detail seems to be getting in the way of a compelling story.

[lucindabelle]

Corstal awful job selling him self to the parents said he wouldn't do any work because as the show demonstrated he's doing lots of work already and has already given this case a lot of thought but he did come across a little used car salesman-ish.

 

but I don't understand the complaint was trying to get money out of that he was charging of quite reasonable flat fee if you look at any high-profile criminal case the lawyers were certainly paid I didn't feel. that was wrong at all I just think he should have explained better.

 

I had totally forgotten that Freddie was shown having sex with a woman at the beginning of the episode so clearly he is not horny particularly since that seems to be happening regularly and he was even paying that woman's rent I think that scene is there to show us not only prison inside but also a hint that he's not gay that's what I think now we don't know what he wanted but looks like probably isn't sexual favors.

 

on the other hand, I don't know how anyone can feel good about the horrible things that go into making veal.

 

finally I am worried as hell about Andrea's cat. I guess Stone did the right thing and taking her because she had been left to her self for days poor kitty but the cat is so clearly thinking why can't I go home with you man whose feet smell so good? I to believe he is not going to be able to leave that cat to die what a pretty little girl that cat is.

[formerlyfreedom]

2 hours ago, kieyra said:

The prison-menace stuff was all so by the book that in the end I was more concerned for the cat. Thanks for taking it to a kill shelter, asshole. And yes, I get the freaking allegory.

Well, at least he took the cat to a shelter - many people wouldn't do that, and I'm not sure how many no-kill shelters there are in New York. Here in the less populous midwest, the closest no-kill shelter is over an hours drive away, and I've been told by friends that they will only accept what they consider 'adoptable' pets. And the fact that he asked how long until they euthanized animals leaves me thinking he'll make sure that cat finds a home.

I also found it really interesting that both Stone and Naz are allergic to cats. Small thing, but interesting.

 

2 hours ago, Knuckles said:

No lawyer works for free. A murder one case...50k did not sound like much. Talking money upfront with his parents was necessary...the alternative is Legal Aid, and they are underfunded and overloaded.  Khan's parents do not have much ready cash...and the introduction to the criminal justice system is a brutal awakening, from the bored guards to the invasive if necessary body searches of visitors, to the costs involved. A lot of defendants on serious charges have no resources and must rely on Legal Aid... with no disrespect to Legal Aid lawyers, who do their best with incredibly limited resources. Judicial outcomes can be very different if you can afford to mount an extensive defense. That's a fact.

The pro-bono attorney...I'm guessing this is a serious move for her...a high profile case, with lots of political overtones, and constant media attention. It could make her career...or catapult her into politics. Been done before. That's the big payoff she smells. Whether Khan is found innocent or guilty...she becomes a constant TV presence and that might be a win win for her. It's not only the young attorney who's a prop...it's Khan and his family and ultimately his community. No lawyer works for free...it's just how they collect that differs.

Yeah, I don't really fault him for bringing money to the conversation - like the alleged 'pro-bono' attorney said, a case like this could cost five times more. And I strongly suspect that while she's going to do this for 'free,' they may find the cost greater than they ever imagined.

Watching Naz's parents go through the visiting process made me realize how absolutely ill-equipped they are for this process. It was stunning to watch the searches of people and young children - and realize that this is just the reality for many, in order to see their parent or other family member. The invasion of privacy is something the average American just cannot even wrap their mind around.

[MrWhyt]

1 hour ago, WaltersHair said:

Whenever that guy shows up on the insurance commercials all I can think of is What Supremacist Dude.

that's Oscar winning White Supremacist dude.

Quote

The invasion of privacy is something the average American just cannot even wrap their mind around.

it's a jail, they're allowed to implement security measures, it's not like they're coming into someones's house and doing pat downs.

[scrb]

The way they showed Omar, he seemed to be sympathetic to Naz being bewildered in prison and then saw him with his parents.

Guess he's suppose to be something of a family man too, as he was playing with his kids.

So a hardened criminal has compassion for Naz?  Too simplistic it seems.

[Ellaria]

21 hours ago, kieyra said:

The prison-menace stuff was all so by the book that in the end I was more concerned for the cat. Thanks for taking it to a kill shelter, asshole. And yes, I get the freaking allegory.

Yes, I'm a little concerned about the kitty, too. I know that Stone thinks that he did a good thing rather than let her wander the streets. I'm just going to keep telling myself that a kind-hearted person will adopt her.

21 hours ago, Knuckles said:

No lawyer works for free. A murder one case...50k did not sound like much. Talking money upfront with his parents was necessary...the alternative is Legal Aid, and they are underfunded and overloaded.  Khan's parents do not have much ready cash...and the introduction to the criminal justice system is a brutal awakening, from the bored guards to the invasive if necessary body searches of visitors, to the costs involved. A lot of defendants on serious charges have no resources and must rely on Legal Aid... with no disrespect to Legal Aid lawyers, who do their best with incredibly limited resources. Judicial outcomes can be very different if you can afford to mount an extensive defense. That's a fact.

The pro-bono attorney...I'm guessing this is a serious move for her...a high profile case, with lots of political overtones, and constant media attention. It could make her career...or catapult her into politics. Been done before. That's the big payoff she smells. Whether Khan is found innocent or guilty...she becomes a constant TV presence and that might be a win win for her. It's not only the young attorney who's a prop...it's Khan and his family and ultimately his community. No lawyer works for free...it's just how they collect that differs.

Well said. I can't fault Naz's parents for hiring Crowe. They don't have the money to pay Stone, especially since their taxi is "out of commission" until after the trial. And he did talk about a plea deal. While I don't fault Stone for his tactics, Naz's parents are trying to do the best for Naz and they perceive that Crowe may offer a better alternative. Of course, this isn't a benevolent move for her; she is seeing opportunity and there will be a price to be paid.

Everyone is trying to protect their own interests. Some come into this situation better armed than others. Naz's parents are naive but they aren't stupid. I completely understand why they accepted Crowe's offer. Having said that, Stone isn't going away. Somehow, he will still be involved in this case.

I didn't care for this episode. I enjoyed Oz but was hoping that this wouldn't be a revival of it. Still, Michael K. Williams is a great addition to the cast but he, too, will want payment of a sort for offering protection. I'm hoping for a little less of Rikers next week and a little more of police work.

There is something about Jeannie Berlin that is troubling. At least Stone pointed out that the knife found in Naz's possession is not necessarily the murder weapon.

18 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

that's Oscar winning White Supremacist dude.

As an aside, the actor that played White Supremacist Dude - JK Simmons - lived in my town while he was on Oz. Nice guy - very approachable - which was a little disconcerting when thinking about Vern Schillinger.

Edited July 26, 2016 by Ellaria Sand

[The Hound Lives]

4 hours ago, scrb said:

The way they showed Omar, he seemed to be sympathetic to Naz being bewildered in prison and then saw him with his parents.

Guess he's suppose to be something of a family man too, as he was playing with his kids.

So a hardened criminal has compassion for Naz?  Too simplistic it seems.

I agree it seems far to simplistic for him to care about Naz and his situation. I don't think he is doing it simply to be kind, nor for the sex (though his having sex with a woman doesn't mean he wouldn't have sex with a man in prison, since access to women is limited) but I definitely think his story will be explored a bit more. We saw a brief montage of who Freddy was before he ended up in prison when we saw the newspaper clippings. He was "somebody" on the outside. Maybe Naz is simply another tool for him to use to get the things he wants. Make people beholden to you and you can use them for whatever you see fit. 

About the cat, we saw Stone let him in and feed him. How did he the cat get back out? Since it's a crime scene, people are in and out of the place a lot, so maybe someone let the kitty out again. 

Something I haven't seen mentioned and that doesn't make sense and seemed really out of place in the way the show has been done thus far...when the Dad was leaving his friends at the restaurant, someone took pictures of him. Why? Who would be following the Dad? This family isn't mob. Nothing places the Dad at the crime scene or having any knowledge of what happened that night. The family doesn't have money, so extortion would be a huge stretch. I know this show is all about the fine details, so it has to come into play but what the hell is going on there? For a show that does purposely move things at a snail's pace, trying to piece together everything is maddening.

[Neurochick]

10 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

I did not enjoy this episode at all. It veered away from the main mystery and seemed like an episode of the old HBO series, Oz. I think that if it moves to an inside look at Riker's  and all the abuse and corruption that goes on in that jail and then moves far off course, it will seem like a different show.

I don't think this show is supposed to be a mystery.  I think it's supposed to be a show about the criminal justice system and how the actual murder can get lost in the shuffle. 

Maybe the reason Freddy wants to protect Naz is because HE, Freddy got caught up in the same situation as Naz did. 

Edited July 25, 2016 by Neurochick

[Knuckles]

44 minutes ago, The Hound Lives said:

someone took pictures of him. Why? Who would be following the Dad?

This is a very good point. Naz is Muslim, and the show has not shied away from keeping that in focus. Stone knows how this will play in the tabloids, since it was a particularly gruesome murder, and in a well-to-do community on the West Side. Crowe certainly knows, as her "prop" associate attorney can attest. Even Freddy, in prison, has a view on the subject.  There are others who may find it useful to exploit that.  It may be another fact that helps the actual murder get lost in the shuffle, to quote Neurochick.

[Drogo]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I can't fault Naz's parents for hiring Crowe. They don't have the money to pay Stone, especially since their taxi is "out of commission" until after the trial. And he did talk about a plea deal. While I don't fault Stone for his tactics, Naz's parents are trying to do the best for Naz and they perceive that Crowe may offer a better alternative. Of course, this isn't a benevolent move for her; she is seeing opportunity and there will be a price to be paid.

Is Crowe doing this solely out of the goodness of her heart?  Not likely. She called him "The Khan killer" and showed little respect for her "brown" employee.  (India and Pakistan?  Close enough.) 

Was it manipulative to bring Chandra to speak their native tongue with Naz's parents?  Yes.  

Still, Naz's parents are definitely doing the right thing.  Crowe is a legitimate attorney with a huge network, vast resources and well-known reputation (Naz only knew her first name yet Stone knew immediately who he was talking about.)

The only item checked off in Stone's pro column is Naz's gut feeling.  Naz's recent actions

Spoiler

stealing a cab, picking up a fare in said stolen cab, buying her alcohol, taking drugs with her, engaging in knife foreplay, fleeing the scene of the crime with potential murder weapon on his person, breaking a window to re-enter the scene, noting a parking ticket placing him at the scene yet continuing to flee, driving recklessly away from the scene, spilling his guts to detectives without counsel, turning away protection from a powerful inmate and potential ally, etc.

have taught us that Naz's gut feelings are garbage and should always be ignored.

[clb1016]

Stone has at least shown a personal interest in Naz, visiting him, bringing him clothing.  Ms. Crowe hasn't even bothered to introduce herself to her client.

I seem to be walking my own path here, but there were a number of little things I really liked in this episode.  Off the top of my head and in no particular order:

• Det. Box explaining to the uniformed cops why their reports have to be redone in language that a jury would be able to relate to because Naz is a sympathetic defendant.
• Naz asking the guard the purpose of his new "gift" of shoes.  The guard's answer:  "traction."
• Stone looking in the shoestore window and realizing that it's not just his eczema keeping him from wearing the shoes of a big-time lawyer.
• Stone bringing coffee to the cops at the crime scene.

I'll have to re-watch and I'm sure more will come to me but really this show lives more in the little moments rather than the big moments.

[numbnut]

1 hour ago, The Hound Lives said:

Something I haven't seen mentioned and that doesn't make sense and seemed really out of place in the way the show has been done thus far...when the Dad was leaving his friends at the restaurant, someone took pictures of him. Why? Who would be following the Dad? This family isn't mob. Nothing places the Dad at the crime scene or having any knowledge of what happened that night. The family doesn't have money, so extortion would be a huge stretch. I know this show is all about the fine details, so it has to come into play but what the hell is going on there?

My first guess would be that Box has someone tailing the dad though I'm not sure how the dad's associations can help the case against Naz.

[The Hound Lives]

I am really looking forward to them exploring all the details of the actual murder. We haven't seen them laid out, even if we know the end result. 
One, the knife Naz had wasn't covered in blood. It had blood on it but seeing the murder scene, that knife would've been covered in it. Who places it back where they found it and leaves only a little blood on it? 
Also, the scratches on his back. They are definitely there but nothing about those marks say "defensive" wounds. Along with the murder charges are charges of sexual assault. If he did assault her, he would have marks on his arms and chest. She would've scratched his face. The marks on his back only show that they had some aggressive sex.
While I like that the show isn't just focusing on the "who done it", I would think his lawyer will get all that information and be able to poke holes where they can. 
 

[lovetowrite73]

8 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

but I don't understand the complaint was trying to get money out of that he was charging of quite reasonable flat fee if you look at any high-profile criminal case the lawyers were certainly paid I didn't feel. that was wrong at all I just think he should have explained better.

I think they were more put off by Stone talking about a plea deal. 50k to plea guilty...hmm. And his card said "No Fee Until You're Free." I don't get why he wanted retainer money then.

[Drogo]

19 minutes ago, numbnut said:

My first guess would be that Box has someone tailing the dad though I'm not sure how the dad's associations can help the case against Naz.

Maybe hoping to find out something about his parents (ex: illegal activity, terrorist ties, marital infidelity) that would inevitably draw the Muslim community's support away from the family. 

3 minutes ago, lovetowrite73 said:

And his card said "No Fee Until You're Free." I don't get why he wanted retainer money then.

I think most of Stone's cases are plead-downs where he just shows up in court and says his stuff (no money layout required) whereas this case will require hiring expert witnesses for pro-Naz testimony. 

[kay1864]

I'm starting to wonder if we'll see the actual trial. Clearly we've got at least one or two episodes fleshing out the Rikers plot.  That leaves only three or four for the trial.  And presumably Crowe's questioning in there somewhere?  Or is she going to try this case in the media?

However Crowe

Spoiler

might be leaving.  imdb lists Glenne Headly for only 3 episodes, but Turturro for 8.

Any guesses as to why Stone was going to see Crowe?  Partly to vent about her 'stealing' his client, sure, but I'm wondering if he was going to share some of what he found (cat was outside/back door was unlocked, video of the stairs (FWIW), Naz' demeanor not matching that of a murderer).

Also, I was surprised about Khan's partners not getting the cab back.  I thought after the CSI guys were done getting their samples, photos, etc, the cab would released from impound.  Why do the detectives still need it after that?

[humbleopinion]

Kudos to Casting for this series.

Explaining to friends that Glenne Headly had a roman candle career, peaking with Dick Tracy and Dirty Rotten Scoundrels in the late 80's/early 90's.

Her voice and steady eye gaze still her bread and butter.

Michael K Williams has a show on Viceland, check it out.

Jumpy throughout the show, so the editors succeeded on creating tension.

Liked the parallel of Naz's and the cat's fate and circumstance both in the hands of Stone.

[Princess Sparkle]

44 minutes ago, kay1864 said:

Also, I was surprised about Khan's partners not getting the cab back.  I thought after the CSI guys were done getting their samples, photos, etc, the cab would released from impound.  Why do the detectives still need it after that?

I actually think it's pretty common to keep a piece of evidence until a trial is over, even if they've collected the initial evidence.  The part I didn't know was that the owners of the cab could be sued, which seemed insane to me, but I'm assuming that must be somewhat based in fact.

44 minutes ago, kay1864 said:

I'm starting to wonder if we'll see the actual trial. Clearly we've got at least one or two episodes fleshing out the Rikers plot.  That leaves only three or four for the trial.  And presumably Crowe's questioning in there somewhere?  Or is she going to try this case in the media?

However Crowe

  Reveal hidden contents

might be leaving.  imdb lists Glenne Headly for only 3 episodes, but Turturro for 8.

 

I wouldn't necessarily take that as proof, because

Spoiler

IMDB lists Michael K Williams for the premiere episode only, and not only do we know he's in at least two (this week's and next week's), he wasn't even in the premiere

 

2 hours ago, The Hound Lives said:

Something I haven't seen mentioned and that doesn't make sense and seemed really out of place in the way the show has been done thus far...when the Dad was leaving his friends at the restaurant, someone took pictures of him. Why? Who would be following the Dad? This family isn't mob. Nothing places the Dad at the crime scene or having any knowledge of what happened that night. The family doesn't have money, so extortion would be a huge stretch. I know this show is all about the fine details, so it has to come into play but what the hell is going on there? For a show that does purposely move things at a snail's pace, trying to piece together everything is maddening.

I'm guessing that's either an investigator for the prosecution, or possibly someone from a tabloid.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Princess Sparkle
typo

[Jodithgrace]

I was wondering if at least part of Freddy's motivation in helping Naz is boredom. I've always thought that the worst part of being in prison, for people with a brain, would be the unremitting boredom. Same scenery, same food (hence the veal), same people..nothing to look forward to but more of the same. Now suddenly a new kind of person comes on the scene, a total innocent (if not innocent of the crime, he is certainly more innocent than 99.9 % of the other inmates.)  Now Freddy could just sit back and watch things take their usual course. Boring. Or he could get involved. It wouldn't take much effort on his part..probably a few well aimed glares, and Naz is in his debt and things are a bit more interesting around the place. Just a thought.

I love Glen Headly, but ever since Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, I have never trusted her. (I don't mean her personally, of course, but I don't trust her characters) I'm sure she is up to no good, and would have preferred Stone..though it is hard to blame Naz' parents for picking a deal, which only seems to me to be too good to be true.  

[Superpole2000]

51 minutes ago, Jodithgrace said:

I love Glen Headly, but ever since Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, I have never trusted her. (I don't mean her personally, of course, but I don't trust her characters) I'm sure she is up to no good, and would have preferred Stone..though it is hard to blame Naz' parents for picking a deal, which only seems to me to be too good to be true.  

I find it very strange that they didn't at least ask why she wasn't going to charge them. Do they really think you get professional services for free?

One thing really strained credulity in this episode: The lawyer the dad's two business partners was referred to was Stone as well. NYC is a big place, but there seems to be just one lawyer scoping out the police stations for work.

[iMonrey]

Is it wrong that I feel worse for the cat than I do for Nasir? Yes, I'm one of those crazy animal people who cares more about animals than humans. So sue me. But my heart just went out to that poor cat.

It feels like there is something missing from this story and it's the victim's history. At this point the murder is all over the news yet we still know next to nothing about the victim, even after meeting her stepfather last week. We know she'd been in trouble with the law more than once and drugs were involved, so it seems to me like her story should be just as important as Nasir's, and it isn't. Hopefully as the story progresses the attorneys will start looking into her past and coming up with all kinds of possible suspects or theories about the murder, because it seems to me that's going to be the key freeing Nasir.

Also, I know I'm supposed to be rooting for Stone but I'm not sure why. In the most practical sense, Nasir is far better off with a high-powered attorney who has a wealth of resources at her disposal. It doesn't really matter, to me, what her motivation is in taking this case so long as she can win it.

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Also, I was surprised about Khan's partners not getting the cab back.  I thought after the CSI guys were done getting their samples, photos, etc, the cab would released from impound.  Why do the detectives still need it after that?

I think realistically the cab would ultimately be trashed by the investigators: seats pulled out, fabric torn out and pulled apart, the whole thing stripped down to nothing.

[scrb]

Wonder if Crowe would be more likely to push for trial, no pleas.  She pointed out Stone isn't a trial lawyer.

End result could be that she pursues a trial which could put Naz more at risk of a conviction for the publicity when the best thing for the client might be to plead to a much lesser charge.

[meep.meep]

The cab is evidence.  They hold evidence forever if they can.  Which actually makes sense - they know Naz was driving around in the cab after he left the murder scene.  What if they didn't find everything and had to check later?  I don't think they'd tear every vehicle down to the chassis.  Of course, I was convinced that it would be stripped after being left overnight on the street with the windows down and (as far as we knew), with the keys in the ignition.

I, too, would like to hear a little more about the victim.

I have never encountered a cat willing to drink milk.  "Crunchies!!!" they snarl, "we only eat crunchies!!!  Take away this wet stuff and bring our crunchies!  Or else!"  Maybe they just weren't hungry enough.

So Naz gets shoes, and Stone wants shoes.

[AuntiePam]

2 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

I was wondering if at least part of Freddy's motivation in helping Naz is boredom. I've always thought that the worst part of being in prison, for people with a brain, would be the unremitting boredom. Same scenery, same food (hence the veal), same people..nothing to look forward to but more of the same. Now suddenly a new kind of person comes on the scene, a total innocent (if not innocent of the crime, he is certainly more innocent than 99.9 % of the other inmates.)  Now Freddy could just sit back and watch things take their usual course. Boring. Or he could get involved. It wouldn't take much effort on his part..probably a few well aimed glares, and Naz is in his debt and things are a bit more interesting around the place. Just a thought.

 

I think you're on to something. 

So far, I'm still riveted.  I think the writing is great, the dialogue is realistic (no exposition, nobody's long-winded), and everyone's motivations are understandable. 

I'm not spending much thought on what might happen next (I'm never right anyway), but I do think the brothers might sue to get their cab back.  And it wouldn't surprise me if Freddy is behind the fire.  They all know Freddy wants Naz, for whatever reason, and they're helping Naz make up his mind.  Hell, maybe they're just as bored as Freddy.

Didn't Omar smoke Newports?  Menthol, I think.

[iMonrey]

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I have never encountered a cat willing to drink milk. 

I have, but you're really not supposed to give it to them. It usually gives them the runs.

[Pollock]

16 hours ago, Knuckles said:

The pro-bono attorney...I'm guessing this is a serious move for her...a high profile case, with lots of political overtones, and constant media attention. It could make her career...or catapult her into politics. Been done before. That's the big payoff she smells. Whether Khan is found innocent or guilty...she becomes a constant TV presence and that might be a win win for her. It's not only the young attorney who's a prop...it's Khan and his family and ultimately his community. No lawyer works for free...it's just how they collect that differs.

When we first saw pro-bono take the case, I immediatly thought of Zellner, the lawyer specialized in freeing innocent people from jail, currently working on the Steven Avery's case. Meaning, she does the criminal part pro-bono and take her fee after that: when she wins the civil suit she files against the State, the Police and whomever is deemed responsible for the false conviction.

It's probably not the reference though, as for the time being, Pro-Bono Allison can't know for sure Naz is innocent so the notoriety part is more likely but still, that was in my mind. When I saw the police conference, even if that was tame, and the reference to that piece of shit Nancy Grace, I had flashes of Making a Murderer: even innocent, Naz life is ruined with his name thrown to the press/wolves, the time is currently serving in one of the most difficult jail in America without even being convicted, and add to that the stigmata of being a muslim in this world... yep, his life pretty much already donzo when he goes to trial, even if he's innocent and found innocent.

 

I like how this show isn't just another mystery or another thriller but one about the justice system, how you can be easily crushed. Every piece we saw during the first episode, from the men he made the patrolmen get off the cab, the cameras, the limo driver, the Wire witness and his friend, to the neighbour and the two police officers who arrested him, everything I assume will be part of his trial. So how those elements can and will be used by both sides in the courtroom is an exciting perspective and I can't wait to see what truth the Prosecution and Defense will offer us !

[Neurochick]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It feels like there is something missing from this story and it's the victim's history. At this point the murder is all over the news yet we still know next to nothing about the victim, even after meeting her stepfather last week. We know she'd been in trouble with the law more than once and drugs were involved, so it seems to me like her story should be just as important as Nasir's, and it isn't. Hopefully as the story progresses the attorneys will start looking into her past and coming up with all kinds of possible suspects or theories about the murder, because it seems to me that's going to be the key freeing Nasir.

I agree.  It's NYC, some reporter would have been all over the victim's story.  I mean even if her mother left her the brownstone, how did she pay the taxes and the bills?  See, if she was doing something illegal to pay the bills, there could be another suspect.

The cat is a good actor, I wonder if he/she belongs to one of the actors or crew.  He/she seems to be used to being around humans. 

Edited July 25, 2016 by Neurochick

[kieyra]

1 hour ago, Pollock said:

When we first saw pro-bono take the case, I immediatly thought of Zellner, the lawyer specialized in freeing innocent people from jail, currently working on the Steven Avery's case. Meaning, she does the criminal part pro-bono and take her fee after that: when she wins the civil suit she files against the State, the Police and whomever is deemed responsible for the false conviction.

It's probably not the reference though, as for the time being, Pro-Bono Allison can't know for sure Naz is innocent so the notoriety part is more likely but still, that was in my mind. 

Not quite following you, as I don't see how Zellner could "know" Avery is guilty or innocent either. 

I think the more salient point here is that this show was in development before America got a taste for "injustice porn" via Serial and MaM.

(I'm unconvinced of the innocence of either of those people, but I suspect Syed at least is going to walk. Avery lost me at "threw cat into a fire".)

[preeya]

18 hours ago, Drogo said:

Crisco and Saran Wrap.

Still better than most dermatologist advice.

 

I suffer from eczema so I can sympathize. I once had an out  break on my calfs. The remedy was tepid baths followed by applying olive oil wrapped with Saran Wrap. It worked.

[MrWhyt]

7 hours ago, kay1864 said:

Also, I was surprised about Khan's partners not getting the cab back.  I thought after the CSI guys were done getting their samples, photos, etc, the cab would released from impound.  Why do the detectives still need it after that?

They hold evidence in case they need it later. For example: the prosecution can say "this fiber was found at the crime scene and it matches the carpeting in the cab" and the defence can say "no the cab has different carpeting", how do determine who is right? you go back to the cab and do the test again. If the cab been under lockdown at the police evidence yard then there is less of a chance that the evidence has been tampered with in the meantime.

[clb1016]

I'm not a police tech, but in an example such as you cite, wouldn't the lab keep both samples being compared?  If they only have the crime scene fiber, essentially they're saying "the 2 samples matched; take our word for it."

[kieyra]

Sorry,  maybe I'm misunderstanding something in this conversation, but I thought the desk cop pointed out that the taxi was probably going to be confiscated because it was used in the commission of a crime. It doesn't have that much to do with evidence in the big picture, it's about money.

http://time.com/money/4106485/police-private-property-seizure/

 That's why the cop encouraged them to report it stolen.