S08.E15: All Bets Are Off

[NewDigs]

I don't know about the dubbing but there are plenty of innocent citizens racing to escape.

Sorry. Didn't see page jump and don't know how to get @ScoobieDoobs post/quote added.

Edited July 16, 2016 by NewDigs

[motorcitymom65]

On July 16, 2016 at 1:14 PM, WireWrap said:

Without a doubt, Dorinda has been stirring the pot big time. I suspect it is a bit of payback to Bethenny for all the nasty talk she has done about John. That said, Bethenny and Carole have discussed Jules/ED on camera quite a few times but not with Jules face to face. Both times Carole approached Jules about ED it was not coming from a supportive or even a inquisitive place but a more OMG what are you doing stance. And outside the 1 time Bethenny/Jules talked about it, this last time, Bethenny made it all about her and nothing about Jules. For Bethenny it was a way to show why she isn't trying to get to know Jules, why she kept her at arms length, it was another "feel bad about me, me, me" approach instead of "I am worried about YOU" approach.  

I am all for Dorinda getting exposed for her antics but I want Bethenny and Carole held to the same standard as well. All 3 would crumble if the truth about each of them were exposed. LOL

I'm still not getting this notion that Dorinda is trying to get back at Beth for any comments about John. Where have we seen evidence of this? Dorinda seemed to be as angry with John as she was with Beth.  If she is holding some long-term grudge against Beth and has decided to take that grudge out on Carole, she needs help and she needs it stat.  I think that it seems like Beth's comments should bother her more, but I missed any confirmation that she has given it a second thought.  

Both Carole and Beth are taking heat - tons of it.  On this forum, on Twitter, etc.. They are getting blamed all over the place for what they have said and done (I have zero idea what they have done, but clearly others do).  They are getting blamed. Will they get blamed in the same manner at the reunion by the folks that were actually involved in the drama? That I don't know. It has all been discussed. It is all out in the open. There are no secrets regarding what the are accused of and how the others feel about it.  What Dorinda was doing wasn't known to all, however.  It hasn't been debated, she hasn't been blamed or held accountable. The stuff she has been doing is only coming to light now. Folks are starting to put it all together. That alone may mean that she takes a lot of heat at the reunion.  Carole for sure is pissed about being thrown under the bus by Dorinda. 

[WireWrap]

34 minutes ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

.

Bethenny is Godzilla (well, on the show now anyway).  You can't go face-to-face with Godzilla cuz Godzilla (er, Bethenny) will pick you up & take a few bites -- just until you're in the most unbearable pain possible, but not dead, cuz she wants you to experience the pain -- cuz she's the evil Bethenny monster.  Then she'll spit you out, while laughing at you writhing in pain & agony.  Yup, that's the Bethenny monster.  So who would wanna deal with that shit?

 

Don't forget that Bethenny will tell you that "You Made Her Bite/Attack You"! LOL

[motorcitymom65]

On July 16, 2016 at 2:37 PM, zoeysmom said:

One of things that is an epic fail on the producers part is when they don't let someone fully explain something.  Take Jules labia injury, she had not seen Bethenny and when she thought she would get her chance to explain-Bethenny cut her off.  Bethenny cut her off as she had already heard the story.  It would have been far better for the show for Bethenny to have asked, "why were you calling through a window?".  Instead we got the rude verb diatribe.   Another instance where Bethenny cut off Ramona about which house she should downsize to was actually helpful and good for the viewers as Ramona was asking for advice from Luann and then wanting to fight with Luann.  Bethenny stepped in and pointed out Ramona had answered her own question and was not ready to make a decision.  In that case she moved a stalled conversation along.  Otherwise between the texting each other and producers providing reasons for people not attending-we the viewers don't get to gauge the situation.  I mean do Luann and Bethenny normally text each other constantly, Bethenny seesm to point out how dutiful Ramona is to her bleeding situation.  If Carole, Ramona and Dorinda are all up to speed on Bethenny's hourly Kotex usage do Sonja and Luann really need it straight from the horse's mouth or is a secondary update okay?  Bethenny seemed to think a single text sufficed regarding Jules situation.  BTW I think Jules sends silly texts.

The same with the Luann/Bethenny meeting.   Bethenny had nothing informational to offer, she told Luann she was going to the doctor the next day.  There was need to further the conversation. Other than tardy Bethenny wanted to talk and Luann wasn't going to be late to the theatre or listen to Bethenny lecture her again. Obviously Bethenny was well enough to film, so it wasn't as if there was a dire emergency.  Did Luann need to hear about the removal of the IUD and how days she had uterine bleeding or how much Bethenny's body was discharging-probably not.  Bethenny's fibroid situation never really has gotten interesting.  Describing her bleeding as looking like a crime scene to a doctor it is not really helpful for a medical diagnosis or happening in front of her daughter.

As to Dorinda, she is invited to everything.  I look at Dorinda this way, she on one hand is trying to protect the group from fracturing  and trying to keep her relationships intact.  Bethenny is friends with Dorinda  because Dorinda is a fan favorite.  (Not necessarily mine but she gets a lot of Bravo love.)  She says a lot in her talking heads and is the perfect RH because she is self-absorbed.   I think Dorinda sees a lot of the manipulation within the group and tries to intervene.  Like a lot of them I think they get tired of the same pissy spats between two RH (Carole and Luann).  Dorinda had to forgive Ramona and move on so in her mind perhaps she feels like Carole needs to suck it up-which Carole ultimately did by attending Dorinda's party.  I do think Dorinda was correct in her approach to Luann saying the others were talking about her removing herself.  The others sound beyond stupid holding Luann out to be a bad person because she would rather spend time with someone who loves her and she enjoys than endure another hate filled ambush. 

What was the purpose of inviting Luann to dinner?  Did they feel they needed to fill Luann in on Carole's sex life?  because Bethenny has said there is no personal information going from her to Luann.  That only left what Luann was up to.   Whatever Luann was doing was going to be subject to Bethenny's scorn.  So the reason for Luann avoiding them was clear-she didn't want to be humiliated again by Bethenny.  Carole and Bethenny were snickering away in the Berkshires saying how they would never speak to someone again who spoke to Bethenny the way she did to Luann and now they are holding it against her because she doesn't want to be around them.  Hypocrites.

Who is "they"? When has Carole ever said "boo" about being upset that Lu didn't want to be around her after Beth's rant in the Berkshire's? Both Ramona and Sonja have mentioned Lu is in her own little world and they feel left out, but when has Carole ever acts upset about this? Sorry, but this is what drives me nuts. Carole always gets lumped in with Beth, even when it makes no sense at all.  Beth was cold towards Lu at the dinner, Carole was warm and kind to her. Not my words, but Lu's. Beth acted bitchy about Lu not bothering to call directly to inform about her engagement. So Beth hadn't bothered to reach out and say "congrats". Carole on the other hand send Lu a lovely and gracious text. Much more generous that Lu deserved.  Where are the comments regarding how nice this was of Carole, especially considering all the heat she took during the beginning of the season because she couldn't let her Lu anger die? 

[WireWrap]

3 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I'm still not getting this notion that Dorinda is trying to get back at Beth for any comments about John. Where have we seen evidence of this? Dorinda seemed to be as angry with John as she was with Beth.  If she is holding some long-term grudge against Beth and has decided to take that grudge out on Carole, she needs help and she needs it stat.  I think that it seems like Beth's comments should bother her more, but I missed any confirmation that she has given it a second thought.  

Both Carole and Beth are taking heat - tons of it.  On this forum, on Twitter, etc.. They are getting blamed all over the place for what they have said and done (I have zero idea what they have done, but clearly others do).  They are getting blamed. Will they get blamed in the same manner at the reunion by the folks that were actually involved in the drama? That I don't know. It has all been discussed. It is all out in the open. There are no secrets regarding what the are accused of and how the others feel about it.  What Dorinda was doing wasn't known to all, however.  It hasn't been debated, she hasn't been blamed or held accountable. The stuff she has been doing is only coming to light now. Folks are starting to put it all together. That alone may mean that she takes a lot of heat at the reunion.  Carole for sure is pissed about being thrown under the bus by Dorinda. 

Many people believe that only they can talk smack about a loved one, no one else is allowed to and I think Dorinda falls into that mind set. She can correct John all she wants but the others, Ramona/Bethenny had better keep their mouths closed about him. Bethenny made a pretty salacious accusation about John being a coke head on camera, something that could affect his business and her reputation on the show. Dorinda is smart enough to know that going after Carole carries less risk than going after Bethenny but still undermines Bethenny at the same time. Dorinda is stealth in her HW game play, the only difference this season is that she isn't getting drunk as often as last season and showing her cards as easily. I also think Dorinda fears loosing fan favorite status to the Bethenny/Carole team and is fighting to retain it. LOL

We have all seen Dorinda take what the others said about another HW back to that HW, all while trying to make it sound like she was innocent this season. We have seen it, like when she told Sonja that she wasn't getting invited to Mexico, that Bethenny and the others didn't want her to go but she never admitted that she didn't want her to go either or that she was actually the first to vote Sonja out. So, they have shown Dorinda playing the game.

I would venture to guess that if all the skeletons (behind the cameras) were revealed that Bethenny's and Carole's bone piles would be as deep/tall as the others are. LOL

[WireWrap]

14 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Who is "they"? When has Carole ever said "boo" about being upset that Lu didn't want to be around her after Beth's rant in the Berkshire's? Both Ramona and Sonja have mentioned Lu is in her own little world and they feel left out, but when has Carole ever acts upset about this? Sorry, but this is what drives me nuts. Carole always gets lumped in with Beth, even when it makes no sense at all.  Beth was cold towards Lu at the dinner, Carole was warm and kind to her. Not my words, but Lu's. Beth acted bitchy about Lu not bothering to call directly to inform about her engagement. So Beth hadn't bothered to reach out and say "congrats". Carole on the other hand send Lu a lovely and gracious text. Much more generous that Lu deserved.  Where are the comments regarding how nice this was of Carole, especially considering all the heat she took during the beginning of the season because she couldn't let her Lu anger die? 

Well, I for one did acknowledge Carole's kindness towards Luann and I still see the Carole I like from time to time but it is happening less and less. I think Carole gets lumped in with Bethenny's nastiness because more often than not, she, Carole, supports whatever Bethenny did or said instead of saying that Bethenny crossed the line or could have/should have handled it differently/better. Which is something we saw her do with Heather/visa versa and made their friendship one of equals, not one of dominant/subservient like the Bethenny/Carole friendship comes across, at least to me.

))sigh(( I really miss Heather and I miss the friendship between Heather/Carole big time this season.

[izabella]

2 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I think Carole gets lumped in with Bethenny's nastiness because more often than not, she, Carole, supports whatever Bethenny did or said instead of saying that Bethenny crossed the line or could have/should have handled it differently/better

She herself suggests that she should be lumped together with Bethy.  Carole is the one who pointed out that everything Jules had said to Bethy, she could have said to Carole, too.

[zoeysmom]

18 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Who is "they"? When has Carole ever said "boo" about being upset that Lu didn't want to be around her after Beth's rant in the Berkshire's? Both Ramona and Sonja have mentioned Lu is in her own little world and they feel left out, but when has Carole ever acts upset about this? Sorry, but this is what drives me nuts. Carole always gets lumped in with Beth, even when it makes no sense at all.  Beth was cold towards Lu at the dinner, Carole was warm and kind to her. Not my words, but Lu's. Beth acted bitchy about Lu not bothering to call directly to inform about her engagement. So Beth hadn't bothered to reach out and say "congrats". Carole on the other hand send Lu a lovely and gracious text. Much more generous that Lu deserved.  Where are the comments regarding how nice this was of Carole, especially considering all the heat she took during the beginning of the season because she couldn't let her Lu anger die? 

This past episode she said Luann had not reached out sincerely to her since her last sincere apology.  She was waiting to be invited to coffee or for a drink. So yes Carole is the one that said, "it is not the high road but the high horse," about Luann not wanting to engage with Carole again and apparently apologize after Luann had sincerely apologized before Christmas.  Carole was the big talker in the conversation at Bethenny's.  To be expected since dumbass Ramona decided to give her historically inaccurate description of the conversation she and Luann had about Carole.   Luann acknowledged Carole expressing her congratulations to her.  I think the idea that a congratulatory text is much more than deserved may be the root of the problem.  I took Carole's text as acknowledgement that real life events transcend stupid bickering.  Why would Carole take the time to send anything but a gracious message?  To do so would make her an ass.  (See Ramona's reactions to most things regarding Luann.) What the bus scene came off to me as is Luann had pretty much clued the ladies a couple of days before about her impending engagement.  Carole reacted very kindly and appropriately, acknowledging the news item about their engagement.  Dorinda and Sonja had had contact with Luann, which left Bethenny and Ramona as the odd men out.  Ramona had pretty much told Luann she didn't approve of the relationship between Luann and Tom or them getting married.     Is doing the right thing really worth repeating-it is kind of like breathing- expected. 

[motorcitymom65]

On July 16, 2016 at 3:25 PM, WireWrap said:

Well, I for one did acknowledge Carole's kindness towards Luann and I still see the Carole I like from time to time but it is happening less and less. I think Carole gets lumped in with Bethenny's nastiness because more often than not, she, Carole, supports whatever Bethenny did or said instead of saying that Bethenny crossed the line or could have/should have handled it differently/better. Which is something we saw her do with Heather/visa versa and made their friendship one of equals, not one of dominant/subservient like the Bethenny/Carole friendship comes across, at least to me.

))sigh(( I really miss Heather and I miss the friendship between Heather/Carole big time this season.

I miss Heather as well, but am glad she is gone when I see the hate that has hit Carole. I have zero doubt that Heather would be on Carole's side no matter what, and she would be getting killed around here as well. She was on Beth's side in the whole Sonja 'tipsy girl" deal (or so it sounded like it by what she said on Twitter), and being on Beth's side would have insured that Heather would be hated. It is simply not possible to agree with Beth about anything, or to like her, and not have that be what defines you at this point. Even if you are your own person, the Beth taint sticks. Unless you are Dorinda. 

[KungFuBunny]

53 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I'm still not getting this notion that Dorinda is trying to get back at Beth for any comments about John. Where have we seen evidence of this? Dorinda seemed to be as angry with John as she was with Beth.  If she is holding some long-term grudge against Beth and has decided to take that grudge out on Carole, she needs help and she needs it stat.  I think that it seems like Beth's comments should bother her more, but I missed any confirmation that she has given it a second thought.  

Both Carole and Beth are taking heat - tons of it.  On this forum, on Twitter, etc.. They are getting blamed all over the place for what they have said and done (I have zero idea what they have done, but clearly others do).  They are getting blamed. Will they get blamed in the same manner at the reunion by the folks that were actually involved in the drama? That I don't know. It has all been discussed. It is all out in the open. There are no secrets regarding what the are accused of and how the others feel about it.  What Dorinda was doing wasn't known to all, however.  It hasn't been debated, she hasn't been blamed or held accountable. The stuff she has been doing is only coming to light now. Folks are starting to put it all together. That alone may mean that she takes a lot of heat at the reunion.  Carole for sure is pissed about being thrown under the bus by Dorinda. 

Dorinda is an expert at Reality TV Politics and is just guaranteeing herself an apple for next year. Will she be confronted about it by the other ladies? Most likely, but I seriously doubt that she’ll confess. She’ll offer her own spin as she did at Joanne’s.

I do believe there are unresolved issues and perceived slights amongst all of the women. But none of them will bring up the REAL issue/slight instead they will pick a fight/throw shade about something they are not even mad about or vested in.

I also truly believe “word on the street, I dunno I heard some shit” could very well mean someone in production, wardrobe, makeup, camera crew…hence the source will never be revealed as they need to pretend none of these things exist.

Dorinda’s grudge against Carole – I don’t think we’ll ever find out cause I still don’t understand why she went off on Heather.

I do think she is a blabbermouth, and if you ply her with too many martinis, she’ll go off on a spacey tangent involving California Raisins and Sandwiches. I wonder if she blabbed to John about what Jules has been saying about Michael. In turn, I wonder if John is really a friend to Michael or just a Reality TV friend.

As for the Twitter heat…Bravo loves it! Anytime there is traffic where one of their shows is trending it’s like a trophy. Dorinda will keep her apple, she’s the Twitmanian Devil.

[WireWrap]

2 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I miss Heather as well, but am glad she is gone when I see the hate that has hit Carole. I have zero doubt that Heather would be on Carole's side no matter what, and she would be getting killed around here as well. She was on Beth's side in the whole Sonja 'tipsy girl" deal (or so it sounded like it by what she said on Twitter), and being on Beth's side would have insured that Heather would be hated. It is simply not possible to agree with Beth about anything, or to like her, and not have that be what defines you at this point. Even if you are your own person, the Beth taint sticks. Unless you are Dorinda. 

I do think their friendship, Bethenny/Carole, has hurt Carole, I know it has made me see her in a different light as well. When I watch B/C together, more often than not they are going in on someone gossiping or congratulating Bethenny on how she went in on someone in a rather ugly manner, with no or very, very few light hearted moments between them.

Yes, Heather understands protecting ones "brand" but she also never tried to freeze anyone out, (the exception was Ramona/London/her first season), and she never held a meeting to "vote" on who goes or not. I don't think she would have approved of Bethenny freezing Sonja out over half the season, Heather is not that hard/cold like Bethenny is.

I think Carole is easily led by strong personalities such as Heather's, Bethenny's, CBK's and that she allows herself to get lost in their needs/wants/demands/world, forgetting her own needs/wants/demands/world.

As for Dorinda, I don't mind them exposing her and the games she plays but I want someone to do that very same thing to them as well.

[zoeysmom]

5 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I miss Heather as well, but am glad she is gone when I see the hate that has hit Carole. I have zero doubt that Heather would be on Carole's side no matter what, and she would be getting killed around here as well. She was on Beth's side in the whole Sonja 'tipsy girl" deal (or so it sounded like it by what she said on Twitter), and being on Beth's side would have insured that Heather would be hated. It is simply not possible to agree with Beth about anything, or to like her, and not have that be what defines you at this point. Even if you are your own person, the Beth taint sticks. Unless you are Dorinda. 

I think at some point had Carole had a one on one with Bethenny about something like the "verb" comment being harsh.  Or actually said to Bethenny, "I understand your frustration with Luann and I can't sign up with name calling."  She elected not to and had just some offhand comment about Bethenny's delivery but the message being on point.  Carole has no problem tweeting how stupid people are or calling them morons in doing so she invites her own group of haters. 

I just gave an example where I felt Bethenny was right in a situation where she interrupted to save a conversation from going south.  So I can't really sign on for it being "not possible to agree with Bethenny on anything".  I also thought Bethenny should have stayed on point with Sonja telling her how the Tipsy Girl surprise cost her a lot of time and angst with her partners.  The rest of the message was unnecessary and now months later to apologize for her bad behavior just doesn't erase the two and half months she didn't apologize and excluded Sonja.

I disagree with those who think Heather would tolerate someone being insensitive to someone with an eating disorder.  Especially someone as awful as Bethenny to say Jules weight makes others uncomfortable.  As the mother of a child with disabilities, I can't see Heather ever signing up for such blatant cruelty to pick on one's physical appearance due to illness mental or otherwise.  I also don't think Heather would sign up for bashing another's man.  She stuck up for Josh, in spite of his shortcomings and her own husband when Ramona and Kristen overstepped about him be submissive to her.    Carole, Bethenny and Ramona retweeting things such as, "no one likes Tom," is very de classe.   Since Heather bowed out or saw the writing on the wall, it is fairly improbable to predict how she would react.  Her reactions from the sidelines may widely vary had she been in the throes of some of this behavior.  BTW I feel the same way about Brandi watching episodes and weighing in on the current cast.

[raiderred1]

On 7/14/2016 at 5:54 AM, Lizzing said:

 

Does anyone have any idea what Adam used as a pizza crust?  It looked like a car floor mat to me.

 

I have no idea but it looked gross and I have zero attraction to that guy. Not that great to look at and he doesn't have a great personality either and enough with the knit hats. Blech

[Baltimore Betty]

32 minutes ago, raiderred1 said:

I have no idea but it looked gross and I have zero attraction to that guy. Not that great to look at and he doesn't have a great personality either and enough with the knit hats. Blech

I think the pizza crust was pureed cauliflower.  I tried it and that curst did not work for me but I do love the pureed cauliflower instead of mashed potatoes, no carbs!

[Trooper York]

Cauliflower is a reasonable alternative if you are gluten free. I have made a pizza crust from cauliflower  and it does not look like the abortion that Vegetable  boy served.

I cook with a lot of gluten free ingredients and it is pretty tough to make something appetizing in both look and taste. This moron does not have a clue.

[raiderred1]

On 7/14/2016 at 10:13 AM, archer1267 said:

 

Bethenny has been picking at Jules' frame and eating habits since Day 1. She's the one who started making it an issue. She can't have it both ways - build a business that is based on women being conscious about their weight, and then criticize a woman for doing just that. (Just like she can't show off wearing Bryn's clothes on social media and accuse other people of having body image problems.)

Like they say, "Game knows game."

[motorcitymom65]

On July 16, 2016 at 4:01 PM, WireWrap said:

I do think their friendship, Bethenny/Carole, has hurt Carole, I know it has made me see her in a different light as well. When I watch B/C together, more often than not they are going in on someone gossiping or congratulating Bethenny on how she went in on someone in a rather ugly manner, with no or very, very few light hearted moments between them.

Yes, Heather understands protecting ones "brand" but she also never tried to freeze anyone out, (the exception was Ramona/London/her first season), and she never held a meeting to "vote" on who goes or not. I don't think she would have approved of Bethenny freezing Sonja out over half the season, Heather is not that hard/cold like Bethenny is.

I think Carole is easily led by strong personalities such as Heather's, Bethenny's, CBK's and that she allows herself to get lost in their needs/wants/demands/world, forgetting her own needs/wants/demands/world.

As for Dorinda, I don't mind them exposing her and the games she plays but I want someone to do that very same thing to them as well.

Heather would have been 100% on Beth's side in the Sonja war. Having a brand herself, she gets it. She also has a much bigger history with Sonja and the feckless manner in which she operates. We would have  seen Heather reminding us of the other stuff she has pulled in the past - against Heather. I would have loved it, because I always like to remember how Sonja used Heather in the Toaster Oven deal. She would completely get it, and the charge against her would have been that she was afraid of her job as well.  I think that where her business was concerned, Heather would absolutely have cut a person out, and good for her if she would have. 

And while I don't believe she would have called Lu a "fuckdoll", she would have gone after her for Carole. Remember that lots of folks who didn't like Heather didn't like her because of the fact that she was viewed as an "attack dog" for Carole. "Don't tell me nothing motherfucker" and all of that. She would have gone after Lu hard. No one else really mentioned or let it linger that Lu was a huge hypocrite in her relationship with Tom, but I believe that Heather would have. She was livid at Lu by the end of the season last year, louder on Twitter against Lu than Carole was at the end. She gave the best interviews about what Lu had done, and how she felt about it and why she would never forgive her for it (or give her "heart" as she put it). She would have been all with Carole on that, and we all know how the audience hated the fact that Carole couldn't let the Lu deal go. 

Bottom line is Heather would have been on the side of Carole and Beth. She certainly wouldn't be on a side with Dorinda, Sonja or Lu. She would have been hammered away at, for being the same person as she has always been, but when the villain changes, everything changes. Carole has always been 100% the same person, but now that Beth is so hated, she is hated as well. The same thing would have happened with Heather.

I am still hoping that Bravo lures her back next season. I could see Carole and Beth wanting someone on the show that isn't completely crazy. Carole has been talking a lot about true friendships vs. alliances on Twitter this week. Saying that what she has with both Heather and Beth are true friendships, and that the rest of the girls don't have actual friendships, just strategical alliances based on what they need to stay on the show.  I would love to see Heather come back at this point, and honestly, it wouldn't surprise me one bit. 

[NewDigs]

I'm not so sure Heather would have gotten as incensed about Tipsy Girl as Bethy. She didn't seem threatened nor bothered when Bethy talked with her about her (B's) own shapers line. Didn't B even try to school her on new product? 

And I don't think Betthhenney is capable of true friendships. Too much MEMEME!

I can better picture Carole friendly with Heather. Unless B's toxicity has infected Carole too.

[WireWrap]

14 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Heather would have been 100% on Beth's side in the Sonja war. Having a brand herself, she gets it. She also has a much bigger history with Sonja and the feckless manner in which she operates. We would have  seen Heather reminding us of the other stuff she has pulled in the past - against Heather. I would have loved it, because I always like to remember how Sonja used Heather in the Toaster Oven deal. She would completely get it, and the charge against her would have been that she was afraid of her job as well.  I think that where her business was concerned, Heather would absolutely have cut a person out, and good for her if she would have. 

And while I don't believe she would have called Lu a "fuckdoll", she would have gone after her for Carole. Remember that lots of folks who didn't like Heather didn't like her because of the fact that she was viewed as an "attack dog" for Carole. "Don't tell me nothing motherfucker" and all of that. She would have gone after Lu hard. No one else really mentioned or let it linger that Lu was a huge hypocrite in her relationship with Tom, but I believe that Heather would have. She was livid at Lu by the end of the season last year, louder on Twitter against Lu than Carole was at the end. She gave the best interviews about what Lu had done, and how she felt about it and why she would never forgive her for it (or give her "heart" as she put it). She would have been all with Carole on that, and we all know how the audience hated the fact that Carole couldn't let the Lu deal go. 

Bottom line is Heather would have been on the side of Carole and Beth. She certainly wouldn't be on a side with Dorinda, Sonja or Lu. She would have been hammered away at, for being the same person as she has always been, but when the villain changes, everything changes. Carole has always been 100% the same person, but now that Beth is so hated, she is hated as well. The same thing would have happened with Heather.

I am still hoping that Bravo lures her back next season. I could see Carole and Beth wanting someone on the show that isn't completely crazy. Carole has been talking a lot about true friendships vs. alliances on Twitter this week. Saying that what she has with both Heather and Beth are true friendships, and that the rest of the girls don't have actual friendships, just strategical alliances based on what they need to stay on the show.  I would love to see Heather come back at this point, and honestly, it wouldn't surprise me one bit. 

Actually, Carole said her friendship with Heather is 100% real but she called Bethenny framily(sp), which equates to more than just friends.... they are family. The relationship between Carole and Bethenny is closer/tighter than her friendship with Heather. The sad part is, only Heather kept them all close during the off season and that ended when she left the show as did the feeling of genuine relationships/caring/connection.

[straightshooter]

I think I better understand the fact that Bethenny supposedly had a hand in Jules being cast, and it was the equivalent of leading a lamb to slaughter.   She also knew that she'd be the one to do the work.  

Edited to add... Dorinda didn't know what an asshole Bethenny is yet when she was involved with Jules' casting, and if she had, I don't think she would've done it. 

Edited July 16, 2016 by straightshooter

[zoeysmom]

19 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Heather would have been 100% on Beth's side in the Sonja war. Having a brand herself, she gets it. She also has a much bigger history with Sonja and the feckless manner in which she operates. We would have  seen Heather reminding us of the other stuff she has pulled in the past - against Heather. I would have loved it, because I always like to remember how Sonja used Heather in the Toaster Oven deal. She would completely get it, and the charge against her would have been that she was afraid of her job as well.  I think that where her business was concerned, Heather would absolutely have cut a person out, and good for her if she would have. 

And while I don't believe she would have called Lu a "fuckdoll", she would have gone after her for Carole. Remember that lots of folks who didn't like Heather didn't like her because of the fact that she was viewed as an "attack dog" for Carole. "Don't tell me nothing motherfucker" and all of that. She would have gone after Lu hard. No one else really mentioned or let it linger that Lu was a huge hypocrite in her relationship with Tom, but I believe that Heather would have. She was livid at Lu by the end of the season last year, louder on Twitter against Lu than Carole was at the end. She gave the best interviews about what Lu had done, and how she felt about it and why she would never forgive her for it (or give her "heart" as she put it). She would have been all with Carole on that, and we all know how the audience hated the fact that Carole couldn't let the Lu deal go. 

Bottom line is Heather would have been on the side of Carole and Beth. She certainly wouldn't be on a side with Dorinda, Sonja or Lu. She would have been hammered away at, for being the same person as she has always been, but when the villain changes, everything changes. Carole has always been 100% the same person, but now that Beth is so hated, she is hated as well. The same thing would have happened with Heather.

I am still hoping that Bravo lures her back next season. I could see Carole and Beth wanting someone on the show that isn't completely crazy. Carole has been talking a lot about true friendships vs. alliances on Twitter this week. Saying that what she has with both Heather and Beth are true friendships, and that the rest of the girls don't have actual friendships, just strategical alliances based on what they need to stay on the show.  I would love to see Heather come back at this point, and honestly, it wouldn't surprise me one bit. 

There is a reason Heather is no longer on the show and I believe that is because she did not want to be put in a position of fighting Bethenny's battles or anyone else's.  She and Dorinda seem to be friends these days on each others' Twitter pages.   Of course there is also the litigation in which she is involved regarding her business.  In three short years Heather managed to bring suit against two people, the first of which, she lost and the second is threatening the very business she worked hard to build.  Her business partner did not like the RHONYC.  Let's call it a dispute between partners.  http://jezebel.com/wtf-is-going-on-with-former-real-housewife-heather-thom-1761950971  So Heather is not really the great expert on business if she can't manage a paycheck.  (I am rooting for Heather to come out on top.)  

I am sorry I just don't see Luann's relationship with Tom as being hugely hypocritical or hypocritical at all.   If Luann's reactions to Carole's relationship with Adam were wrong, how would her relationship with Tom be wrong?  Carole was smarter enough to realize it is a non-issue.  Hypocrisy is yelling at someone for sleeping with a married guy (Luann said they didn't sleep together) while you are not only married but your boyfriend is married. This goal post keeps getting moved regarding the reasons Tom and Luann's relationship is wrong.  The reality regardless of what happened at the Reunion, or even the last five episodes, Tom and Luann left for Europe for a wedding the day after the Reunion. All that happens when you speak poorly of another person's relationship is you are painted as being jealous or bitter.  Sane people wish them well as how they met, how long they knew each other before becoming engaged is really not anyone's business.   I put Heather in the sane column.

[zoeysmom]

46 minutes ago, straightshooter said:

I think I better understand the fact that Bethenny supposedly had a hand in Jules being cast, and it was the equivalent of leading a lamb to slaughter.   She also knew that she'd be the one to do the work.  

Edited to add... Dorinda didn't know what an asshole Bethenny is yet when she was involved with Jules' casting, and if she had, I don't think she would've done it. 

Here is Jules mindset in March of this year.  It seems like Dorinda had the bigger role in casting her:  http://nypost.com/2016/03/07/nys-newest-housewife-luann-de-lesseps-is-a-diva/

[motorcitymom65]

On July 16, 2016 at 6:37 PM, WireWrap said:

Actually, Carole said her friendship with Heather is 100% real but she called Bethenny framily(sp), which equates to more than just friends.... they are family. The relationship between Carole and Bethenny is closer/tighter than her friendship with Heather. The sad part is, only Heather kept them all close during the off season and that ended when she left the show as did the feeling of genuine relationships/caring/connection.

But how can you know that Carole is closer to Beth than to Heather? Where are you getting the idea that the relationship ended when Heather left? She often calls Heather family in her tweets. In the blog you are referring to she was discussing the show, so of course she was talking about Beth, and as usual, she has to defend the relationship. People constantly talk about how they aren't really friends. The tweet below is an example of how she refers to Heather.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CaroleRadziwill/status/720437123359318016

Edited July 17, 2016 by motorcitymom65

[snarts]

Quote

I do think their friendship, Bethenny/Carole, has hurt Carole, I know it has made me see her in a different light as well. When I watch B/C together, more often than not they are going in on someone gossiping or congratulating Bethenny on how she went in on someone in a rather ugly manner, with no or very, very few light hearted moments between them.

I've never liked Carole.  To me, she's always had this air of superiority about her.  Even in her fight was Aviva, the way she handled it gave me pause.  Heather I initially liked, so I do think that Carole was more bearable when Heather was around.  At least she was far less catty.  It's like Bethany & Carole bring out the worst in each other.  Maybe it's the strength in numbers thing, they feel more confident being mean ass bitches because there are two of them?  In any case, they have been awful to half the cast this year.  

They way they treated Jules at both dinners was beyond the pale.  She has an eating disorder, she's been in recovery for years.  She will deal with it her whole life.  Show some compassion.  I thought Carole was especially hateful.  I can't help but think (like many have pointed out) that their reactions stem from their own issues with food.  In any case, they deserve the backlash they're receiving.

[WireWrap]

4 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

But how can you know that Carole is closer to Beth than to Heather? Where are you getting the idea that the relationship ended when Heather left? She often calls Heather family in her tweets. In the blog you are referring to she was discussing the show, so of course she was talking about Beth, and as usual, she has to defend the relationship. People constantly talk about how they aren't really friends. The tweet below is an example of how she refers to Heather.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CaroleRadziwill/status/720437123359318016

First, I never said or even implied that Carole and Heather were no longer friends, I said that Carole says they are 100% friends and that Bethenny is framily, so I am not sure why you believe otherwise. I do believe that Bethenny and Carole are close, very close, closer than Carole/Heather are in real life. Maybe they are closer because Heather has a family of her own, Jonathan/kids, as well as her business,(and her charity involvement), whereas Bethenny only has Bryn 50% of the time, her business and the off time can be spent as she wishes, like taking Carole on exciting/exotic trips. I do think it is possible for Carole to be friends with both Bethenny and Heather even when her ties to Bethenny grow stronger because of the time they spend together both on and off the show. IMO, Heather softened Carole when needed and visa versa but with Bethenny, she has become harder, more angry like Bethenny.

[straightshooter]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

Here is Jules mindset in March of this year.  It seems like Dorinda had the bigger role in casting her:  http://nypost.com/2016/03/07/nys-newest-housewife-luann-de-lesseps-is-a-diva/

I know that Dorinda had the bigger hand in it since they were already friends, but Bethenny has made it a point more than once that she also had some say. (Regardless, I'm sure Dorinda feels bad) 

I just have no doubt that Bethenny would ok someone she perceived as a weakling and would veto any strong, ass-kickin woman who might give her a run for her money.    Control is a fear-based emotion, and Bethenny most definitely gives many fucks, or she wouldn't have a need to keep everyone under her little thumb.  

[Otherkate]

Whoa, it took me forever to get through this thread. So much covered. And covered again. I have nothing much to add other than the fact that Lu's relationship certainly seems off to me, but I'm not too worried about her. Lu is a survivor and I have a feeling she'll always land on her feet, bless her. 

Beth's reaction to Jules was completely over the top. I don't know if she's still seeing that terrible therapist, but she should try a new one. That said, Jules would get on my nerves too. And that said, it's time for Beth to get over herself and practice compassion. 

Adam continues to serve food that looks unappetizing. Blergh.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Otherkate

[motorcitymom65]

On July 16, 2016 at 6:22 PM, NewDigs said:

I'm not so sure Heather would have gotten as incensed about Tipsy Girl as Bethy. She didn't seem threatened nor bothered when Bethy talked with her about her (B's) own shapers line. Didn't B even try to school her on new product? 

And I don't think Betthhenney is capable of true friendships. Too much MEMEME!

I can better picture Carole friendly with Heather. Unless B's toxicity has infected Carole too.

When Heather didn't invite Ramona to London, that was a huge deal. Heather was a newbie. They were 7 or 8 episodes into her first season, and Ramona was a veteran.  She said she did it because of her business. She was unsure of how Ramona would behave, and her business was important to her. She got hammered for that back in the day. People saying that it had nothing to do with her business. What could Ramona do to harm her business? People thought it was in response to Ramona being a bitch to Heather in her first episode. Heather was said to be trying to get back at her. I thought it was sheer perfection. Based on that alone, if Heather honestly believed that someone was coming for her business, she would avoid them like crazy, just like Beth did. 

[WireWrap]

6 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

When Heather didn't invite Ramona to London, that was a huge deal. Heather was a newbie. They were 7 or 8 episodes into her first season, and Ramona was a veteran.  She said she did it because of her business. She was unsure of how Ramona would behave, and her business was important to her. She got hammered for that back in the day. People saying that it had nothing to do with her business. What could Ramona do to harm her business? People thought it was in response to Ramona being a bitch to Heather in her first episode. Heather was said to be trying to get back at her. I thought it was sheer perfection. Based on that alone, if Heather honestly believed that someone was coming for her business, she would avoid them like crazy, just like Beth did. 

Except, Heather didn't avoid Ramona for over half the season, it was only 1 trip. Heather saw her at other events/gatherings and spoke to her, she did not try to freeze Ramona out of filming. LOL Heather has the capacity to show compassion and has in fact shown it on the show, I am not sure Bethenny has that or wants that.

[ButterQueen]

I wish Ramona would just STFU about girl code.  She needs to shut up about Tom and be a friend to LuAnn. Ramona, you look 10 years older with your hair, big titties and excessive make-up.

I was proud of Jules for standing up to Bethenny.  Bethenny ended up looking like a fool.  She has the nerve to say that she gets to talk too...well girl, you never shut up, and stop trying to make Jules's ED all about you.

Loved Sonja's dinner party!!

Dorinda is messy and I'm tired of her endless shit stirring.

i think I liked Carole so much because of her friendship with Heather.  She is a different person being on Beth's side all the time.  I'm very bored with her.

They need another cast overhaul, imo.  The last two seasons have been just boring.

Edited July 17, 2016 by ButterQueen

[zoeysmom]

30 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

When Heather didn't invite Ramona to London, that was a huge deal. Heather was a newbie. They were 7 or 8 episodes into her first season, and Ramona was a veteran.  She said she did it because of her business. She was unsure of how Ramona would behave, and her business was important to her. She got hammered for that back in the day. People saying that it had nothing to do with her business. What could Ramona do to harm her business? People thought it was in response to Ramona being a bitch to Heather in her first episode. Heather was said to be trying to get back at her. I thought it was sheer perfection. Based on that alone, if Heather honestly believed that someone was coming for her business, she would avoid them like crazy, just like Beth did. 

Well Heather could have invited her to go to London, but not her boring business dinner. After watching Ramona at the Kodak event tank Jill Zarin's endorsement would a sane person let ever invite Ramona to a launch?  Last year Bethenny yelled at Ramona (at Sonja's fashion show) for saying she would not go out with  a bartender. There are reasons  The Heather/Ramona match:  http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-5/blogs/ramona-singer/water-and-oil also the rather ill advised conversation with Carole telling Luann about writing a work of fiction is harder than birthing a baby.  Since Luann had both written a book and given birth twice perhaps Carole was being a bit condescending. Carole's book had not even been published or picked up a publisher at this time.  If Carole thinks once you have children there is no criticism she needs a reality check. 

[breezy424]

It would be interesting to see how things would be if both Heather and Kristen came back for this season.  Mostly Heather.  Would she be with Beth and Carole or be with Jules, So  and Lu or Ro and Doris who are playing both sides?  I think Kristen would be with Jules because they have more in common and she can't stand Beth.  Yeah, Heather understands Beth being upset about her brand and Sonja but would she go the extent that Beth went?  I don't know.  Also, given the tension between Beth and her last season, I wonder how she would handle Carole's friendship with Beth and the dynamic of it.  Does it matter in the end?  No. But this season has been so ridiculous that I'm grasping at straws. It would have been a whole lot more compelling because Heather doesn't kiss ass. 

Edited to add:  I can't imagine the field day Beth would have about Josh and Ashley Madison.  It would be brutal.  I don't think the other housewives would go there given their own history.  

Edited July 17, 2016 by breezy424

[ryebread]

29 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

But this season has been so ridiculous that I'm grasping at straws. It would have been a whole lot more compelling because Heather doesn't kiss ass. 

But...(butt?)...she expected people to kiss hers.  IMO, anyway.  And that's just as bad. 

The one time I respected Heather was when she quit the show.  For once, I viewed her as better than for making that decision.

I still think she was a battle-axe and behind the other HW's backs, she and Carole ripped them apart just like Carole and Bethenny do. Because according to Carole that's what girlfriends do.  

But Heather, I think, had a line that she didn't cross (Because of her kids? Her business? Her seemingly sweet husband not digging how she was coming off on TV?) and though they were mean, she and Carole had nothing on Bethenny and Carole. Bethenny just draws out all the godawfulness that was always in Carole and Carole lets it fly freely because now she's Bethenny's sycophant and there are no limits.  When Carole was kissing Heather's butt she adjusted her hatefulness accordingly to be more like Heather.  Someone said upthread that she was gentler as Heather's best friend and I would agree.  Because Heather was a fan fave and also Heather knew when to shut her up.  Now, Carole is just balls to the wall nasty, following in Beth's footsteps. 

And I want to believe that Heather is sitting back, watching this trainwreck and saying, "WTF, Radzi!"  And slowly backing away from the princess.

[motorcitymom65]

On July 16, 2016 at 9:54 PM, WireWrap said:

Except, Heather didn't avoid Ramona for over half the season, it was only 1 trip. Heather saw her at other events/gatherings and spoke to her, she did not try to freeze Ramona out of filming. LOL Heather has the capacity to show compassion and has in fact shown it on the show, I am not sure Bethenny has that or wants that.

But again, not inviting Ramona on a group trip was a huge deal. Except for Kyle disinviting Taylor to Hawaii, it had never been done. If Ramona had done something to actually insult/impact her business, who is to say she wouldn't have avoided her? 

[breezy424]

11 minutes ago, ryebread said:

But...(butt?)...she expected people to kiss hers.  IMO, anyway.  And that's just as bad. 

The one time I respected Heather was when she quit the show.  For once, I viewed her as better than for making that decision.

I still think she was a battle-axe and behind the other HW's backs, she and Carole ripped them apart just like Carole and Bethenny do. Because according to Carole that's what girlfriends do.  

But Heather, I think, had a line that she didn't cross (Because of her kids? Her business? Her seemingly sweet husband not digging how she was coming off on TV?) and though they were mean, she and Carole had nothing on Bethenny and Carole. Bethenny just draws out all the godawfulness that was always in Carole and Carole lets it fly freely because now she's Bethenny's sycophant and there are no limits.  When Carole was kissing Heather's butt she adjusted her hatefulness accordingly to be more like Heather.  Someone said upthread that she was gentler as Heather's best friend and I would agree.  Because Heather was a fan fave and also Heather knew when to shut her up.  Now, Carole is just balls to the wall nasty, following in Beth's footsteps. 

And I want to believe that Heather is sitting back, watching this trainwreck and saying, "WTF, Radzi!"  And slowly backing away from the princess.

I don't know if it was a case of Carole kissing Heather's ass or was it a case of being a 'follower' of Heather.  It seems to me the dynamic is different. Carole didn't have a reason to kiss Heather's ass given the circumstance.  Carole is just not a strong person.   Of course, I could be wrong because I actually liked Heather while I can't stand Beth.  Did Heather and Carole rip them apart?  I didn't see that or maybe I didn't see that in the way that Beth and Carole have done that this season.  I welcome input on this.

Yeah, totally agree that Carole was more gentle with Heather.  And I admit to liking Carole up until this season.  Maybe that's because I want to see the best in people.  Naive?  Yep. 

Also agree on Heather sitting back and thinking WTF Radzi.  Contrary to what is being said on social media I think that friendship is going to crash and burn.  It's just not Heather's style.

[Missmissie173]

DEAR GOD. Bethenny please shut up you bitch!  You were always my favorite, but you have turned into a harpy deluxe.  Menopause is a bitch no doubt...going through  it myself...but you know, not a one of my friends or family would put up with me acting like you for 5 seconds. 

Carol is a weirdo. She is so needy.  She attaches herself to any female that has power within a group (Heather, Bethenny, Carolyn Kennedy, etc...). Carole is not a hipster, she is a dipster.  Quit trying to get air time via Bethenny. 

Lu - you go girl.  I don't see any other of the other witches getting an 8 carat diamond. I don't think any of them are "worried" about your fiance taking advantage of you (for what advantage anyway?) I think they all are just pea green with envy.

Kinda liking me some Jules these days.  I think she is the dark horse of the ho wives.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Missmissie173
spelling of name

[RedheadZombie]

3 hours ago, Missmissie173 said:

DEAR GOD. Bethenny please shut up you bitch!  You were always my favorite, but you have turned into a harpy deluxe.  Menopause is a bitch no doubt...going through  it myself...but you know, not a one of my friends or family would put up with me acting like you for 5 seconds. 

Carol is a weirdo. She is so needy.  She attaches herself to any female that has power within a group (Heather, Bethenny, Caroline Kennedy, etc...). Carole is not a hipster, she is a dipster.  Quit trying to get air time via Bethenny. 

Lu - you go girl.  I don't see any other of the other witches getting an 8 carat diamond. I don't think any of them are "worried" about your fiance taking advantage of you (for what advantage anyway?) I think they all are just pea green with envy.

Kinda liking me some Jules these days.  I think she is the dark horse of the ho wives.

I think you mean Carolyn.  I don't think Carole had much of a relationship with Caroline - at least one she's spoken of. 

[LIMOM]

19 hours ago, HumblePi said:

Are we going to assume she will have the same type if marriage with the 'love of her life' Tom? Perhaps both of them will eventually fall out of the lust stage of their love and fall into the mundane everyday life of two married people. Will that be enough of an excuse for them to forsake their marriage vows to pursue open relationships with other and still maintain a marriage? If this is Luann's modus operandi' as far as relationships go then why legitimize the union at all? Why doesn't she just live with Tom in the same way she lived with Jacques? It's definitely a less messy dissolution of a relationship when it's not legally binding.

Some people enjoys the security and the tax benefit of being married.

Most married men in Alexandre's background operate the same way. Remember DSK, the director of the IMF?

It was not surprising for most French people....

Anyways, I am not so sure that Luann will be marrying that dude. He was never married (I think) and might be itchy for some heirs.

She needs to write a candid book on how to get a man, who slept his way thru half of Manhattan, to give u a ring.

"Love of my life", my ass. Lulu is a phenomenal courtisane. 

[Missmissie173]

15 hours ago, Trooper York said:

Cauliflower is a reasonable alternative if you are gluten free. I have made a pizza crust from cauliflower  and it does not look like the abortion that Vegetable  boy served.

I cook with a lot of gluten free ingredients and it is pretty tough to make something appetizing in both look and taste. This moron does not have a clue.

"Vegetable Boy" - LOL.  Perfect!

[Missmissie173]

13 hours ago, stewedsquash said:

Here is a blog from about two years ago about Carole's couch. You have to go down through a lot of pictures before you get to the talk about Carole's couch. It shows a bunch of pictures of the fabric [that is the point of the blog entry, the fabric]. It is a bit long, but worth the view if you like that kind of stuff [decorating, high end style].  Carole's couch talk starts with the black and white photo of Lee Radziwell in her living room. 

eta ooops! I forgot the link!  

https://cotedetexas.blogspot.com/2014/07/when-is-good-thing-too-much.html

Thanks StewedSquash - I have always wondered about "the couch."  The couch is about the only thing that makes Carole interesting...

[NewDigs]

11 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

When Heather didn't invite Ramona to London, that was a huge deal. Heather was a newbie. They were 7 or 8 episodes into her first season, and Ramona was a veteran.  She said she did it because of her business. She was unsure of how Ramona would behave, and her business was important to her. She got hammered for that back in the day. People saying that it had nothing to do with her business. What could Ramona do to harm her business? People thought it was in response to Ramona being a bitch to Heather in her first episode. Heather was said to be trying to get back at her. I thought it was sheer perfection. Based on that alone, if Heather honestly believed that someone was coming for her business, she would avoid them like crazy, just like Beth did. 

Took response to  Bethy's thread.

Edited July 17, 2016 by NewDigs

[Harperlee1]

17 hours ago, WireWrap said:

I think Carole is easily led by strong personalities such as Heather's, Bethenny's, CBK's and that she allows herself to get lost in their needs/wants/demands/world, forgetting her own needs/wants/demands/world.

I agree with this. Even with Adam, she's vegan... but not really. When he went out of town, she said she was back to eating her old way again. I think the main reasons people become vegan is because of ethical reasons or health reasons. But because your boyfriend is? Veganism is a huge lifestyle change, one difficult to sustain when your boyfriend is the one who has the convictions for you instead of you having them for yourself. 

The title of her book will be "The Reluctant Vegan," and I get that it's supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, but she really is a reluctant vegan. Why? At 50, there should be few things she does reluctantly. Just eat vegan when your bf cooks and eat the foods you like otherwise.

When she was dating that musician, she talked about how she liked to smoke pot and listen to records. I bet that was something he was into. 

I wonder what she was like growing up. I'm guessing not the popular kid, but the one who longed to be accepted, so said/did/became what she thought the people she liked or admired wanted her to. 

Edited July 17, 2016 by Harperlee1

[Missmissie173]

3 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I think you mean Carolyn.  I don't think Carole had much of a relationship with Caroline - at least one she's spoken of. 

You are so right - I was thinking of the right person, John Jr.'s wife Carolyn, but used the wrong spelling.

And.  You are also correct about Carole's relationship with Caroline Kennedy (John's sister.)  If IRC from Carole's book "What Remains", she and Caroline had a lukewarm relationship at best.

[Missmissie173]

3 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I think you mean Carolyn.  I don't think Carole had much of a relationship with Caroline - at least one she's spoken of. 

You are so right - I was thinking of the right person, John Jr.'s wife Carolyn, but used the wrong spelling.

And.  You are also correct about Carole's relationship with Caroline Kennedy (John's sister.)  If IRC from Carole's book "What Remains", she and Caroline had a lukewarm relationship at best.

[WireWrap]

27 minutes ago, Harperlee1 said:

I agree with this. Even with Adam, she's vegan... but not really. When he went out of town, she said she was back to eating her old way again. I think the main reasons people become vegan is because of ethical reasons or health reasons. But because your boyfriend is? Veganism is a huge lifestyle change, one difficult to sustain when your boyfriend is the one who has the convictions for you instead of you having them for yourself. 

The title of her book will be "The Reluctant Vegan," and I get that it's supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, but she really is a reluctant vegan. Why? At 50, there should be few things she does reluctantly. Just eat vegan when your bf cooks and eat the foods you like otherwise.

When she was dating that musician, she talked about how she liked to smoke pot and listen to records. I bet that was something he was into. 

I wonder what she was like growing up. I'm guessing not the popular kid, but the one who longed to be accepted, so said/did/became what she thought the people she liked or admired wanted her to. 

Responding in Carole's thread.

Edited July 17, 2016 by WireWrap

[motorcitymom65]

14 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

There is a reason Heather is no longer on the show and I believe that is because she did not want to be put in a position of fighting Bethenny's battles or anyone else's.  She and Dorinda seem to be friends these days on each others' Twitter pages.   Of course there is also the litigation in which she is involved regarding her business.  In three short years Heather managed to bring suit against two people, the first of which, she lost and the second is threatening the very business she worked hard to build.  Her business partner did not like the RHONYC.  Let's call it a dispute between partners.  http://jezebel.com/wtf-is-going-on-with-former-real-housewife-heather-thom-1761950971  So Heather is not really the great expert on business if she can't manage a paycheck.  (I am rooting for Heather to come out on top.)  

I am sorry I just don't see Luann's relationship with Tom as being hugely hypocritical or hypocritical at all.   If Luann's reactions to Carole's relationship with Adam were wrong, how would her relationship with Tom be wrong?  Carole was smarter enough to realize it is a non-issue.  Hypocrisy is yelling at someone for sleeping with a married guy (Luann said they didn't sleep together) while you are not only married but your boyfriend is married. This goal post keeps getting moved regarding the reasons Tom and Luann's relationship is wrong.  The reality regardless of what happened at the Reunion, or even the last five episodes, Tom and Luann left for Europe for a wedding the day after the Reunion. All that happens when you speak poorly of another person's relationship is you are painted as being jealous or bitter.  Sane people wish them well as how they met, how long they knew each other before becoming engaged is really not anyone's business.   I put Heather in the sane column.

Personally, I don't think that Lu and Tom's relationship is wrong. Originally, a "made for TV relationship"? Oh yea, I believe that all day long. I don't think that relationship is wrong, but then again, I didn't think the Adam/Carole thing was wrong. If I thought the Adam/Carole deal was wrong, I would think Lu's was as well. 

[motorcitymom65]

18 hours ago, WireWrap said:

I do think their friendship, Bethenny/Carole, has hurt Carole, I know it has made me see her in a different light as well. When I watch B/C together, more often than not they are going in on someone gossiping or congratulating Bethenny on how she went in on someone in a rather ugly manner, with no or very, very few light hearted moments between them.

 

I think that is just because this is what we see. Raise your hand if you believe that Carole and Heather talked a lot of smack about the other ladies when they were alone. The very idea that they did not is simply too hard for me to believe. That first trip they took, the one where Aviva went nuts, anyone think that when they were alone in their bungalow they didn't talk about the other gals? We saw a bit of it when they said they wanted to be away from the others because they were kind of nuts. They were no doubt replaying the scene when they were alone, while laughing and recounting the incredible stupidness of what they had just witnessed. 

Or how about the dinner where Dorinda got mad because Heather walked in the restaurant without her? Anyone believe that Carole and Heather didn't talk about how bat-shit crazy Dorinda was that night? Maybe they surmised she had a drinking problem. Or a John problem. Or a blow problem. Maybe Heather told stories of other things that had happened (Heather said that talk of Dorinda's relationship with John and the strangeness of it was a hot topic back at The Berkshire's). How about the next night. The Fuck You dinner? Anyone believe that when Heather and Carole ditched the rest of the gals to go back to the house, that they didn't talk about the other gals? How ridiculous Dorinda and Lu were with their outrage over "bad words". Maybe they laughed at the silliness of Lu not wanting her kids to hear her say "fuck", but had no problem fucking a pirate while TV cameras were close by. Over the years they probably talked about Ramona and her marriage, Sonja and her drinking/financial issues, Lu and her dating life. 

Would seeing any of this have made Heather a bad person? Apparently yes. I know that some people seem to live different lives, but in my world, when I am with my friend, we talk - and yes, sometimes gossip - about other people that we know. Lots of "you won't believe what so and so said to me tonight". My husband and I always say that our favorite part of a party is the after-party discussion. When it's just the two of us on the way home or the next morning and we swap stories. Who did what. Who said what. Who surprised us. Who was an ass. Who was the drunkest. Doesn't make us mean, but I have no doubt that if anyone we were talking about heard us, it would come across as mean. It's  just the way most people that I know roll. Carole has talked about this in several blogs. That this is what most people do. 

[Diane Mars]

3 hours ago, LIMOM said:

... Anyways, I am not so sure that Luann will be marrying that dude. He was never married (I think) and might be itchy for some heirs.

She needs to write a candid book on how to get a man, who slept his way thru half of Manhattan, to give u a ring.

"Love of my life", my ass. Lulu is a phenomenal courtisane. 

And ? Maybe he never married before, because he didn't find THE woman to marry (= the one who's like him, with the same point of view regarding marriage, fidelity, etc...) ?

For me, the secret of a successful marriage is NOT what you've got in common, it's having "compatible" neuroticism, lol ! (think -it's not directed to you, it's a "genreral" advice, lol- about it... It's not as crazy as it seems. Really.)

I don't understand this kind of slut shaming (being it a man or a woman), because, according to it, neither my hubby nor I would have been happily married for 10+ years now. And I promised we both had a life (a lot of lives ?) before being together !

 

[WireWrap]

4 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I think that is just because this is what we see. Raise your hand if you believe that Carole and Heather talked a lot of smack about the other ladies when they were alone. The very idea that they did not is simply too hard for me to believe. That first trip they took, the one where Aviva went nuts, anyone think that when they were alone in their bungalow they didn't talk about the other gals? We saw a bit of it when they said they wanted to be away from the others because they were kind of nuts. They were no doubt replaying the scene when they were alone, while laughing and recounting the incredible stupidness of what they had just witnessed. 

Or how about the dinner where Dorinda got mad because Heather walked in the restaurant without her? Anyone believe that Carole and Heather didn't talk about how bat-shit crazy Dorinda was that night? Maybe they surmised she had a drinking problem. Or a John problem. Or a blow problem. Maybe Heather told stories of other things that had happened (Heather said that talk of Dorinda's relationship with John and the strangeness of it was a hot topic back at The Berkshire's). How about the next night. The Fuck You dinner? Anyone believe that when Heather and Carole ditched the rest of the gals to go back to the house, that they didn't talk about the other gals? How ridiculous Dorinda and Lu were with their outrage over "bad words". Maybe they laughed at the silliness of Lu not wanting her kids to hear her say "fuck", but had no problem fucking a pirate while TV cameras were close by. Over the years they probably talked about Ramona and her marriage, Sonja and her drinking/financial issues, Lu and her dating life. 

Would seeing any of this have made Heather a bad person? Apparently yes. I know that some people seem to live different lives, but in my world, when I am with my friend, we talk - and yes, sometimes gossip - about other people that we know. Lots of "you won't believe what so and so said to me tonight". My husband and I always say that our favorite part of a party is the after-party discussion. When it's just the two of us on the way home or the next morning and we swap stories. Who did what. Who said what. Who surprised us. Who was an ass. Who was the drunkest. Doesn't make us mean, but I have no doubt that if anyone we were talking about heard us, it would come across as mean. It's  just the way most people that I know roll. Carole has talked about this in several blogs. That this is what most people do. 

Of course Heather and Carole talked about the other HWs, they all do it, no question about it. That said, I don't see Heather sitting there with Carole discussing Jules ED in the same tone B/C did. Heather didn't just go after someone out of thin air like Bethenny does, there was usually something that the HW did/said about either her, her husband, Carole or another HW that was cruel, nasty or a lie and more oft than not, she had her say, let it go and gave the other a second/third chance to repair their relationship. Another difference is that Heather didn't use the others as fodder for cruel jokes, to knock them down and keep them there, which is Bethenny's MO. And if Carole thought Heather overreacted/was out of line, she told her straight up that she did but she doesn't do that with Bethenny, instead she goes along with B's behavior as if she feels/thinks the same way. An example, even though Heather and Dorinda were no getting along, Carole still maintained the friendship she had with Dorinda, the same with Luann after T&C fallout between H/L. She filmed with them, heck, even Heather filmed with them and they all still filmed with Aviva after the GW battle began. How many times did Carole film with Sonja after TG battle began before Bethenny let her back into the group?

To bring this back to the current episode, Had Heather been at the dinner when Jules confessed she threw up on purpose, Heather would have stopped and asked what she and the others could do to help her get back on track with her ED. She would not have allowed Bethenny to make Jules ED all about herself, she would have reached out to Jules to give support where/when she needed it and Carole would have been right there along side her trying to help Jules,. Instead, Carole's mindset has morphed into whatever B says/wants/does and this is why I am having issues with Carole this season. Either Carole fears correcting/disagreeing with Bethenny or she really thinks/feels the same way Bethenny does, either way, I am not liking this Carole much at all.

[Lisin]

Guys, again, we're asking nicely, when typing a response please please please think about the thread you're in. Does the response have something to do with this episode or at the very least something that happened this season? Ok! Great! Post here! If not? It doesn't belong in this topic! We're being super lenient here but there are pages of posts about things that have literally nothing to do with this episode much less this season. We'll be deleting not on topic posts from here on out. Thank you!