Small Talk: 1, 2, 3 Non-Cheerleader Conversation

[MrsEVH]

42 minutes ago, Txmomof2 said:

Scroll all the way down to the bottom of the screen. There are suns and moon symbols with S, M, L, XL next to them. The sun makes it brighter and the moon makes it that dark background. Change it to the sun and it should fix it. Mine got changed by mistake one time. 

It worked!  I must have clicked one of them by accident. Thank You so much :)

[Taralightner]

@Txmomof2 to the rescue! I’ve wondered what those symbols were!!!

[Stephieg84]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this. Does anyone have a list of 1st and 2nd group leaders throughout the years? They've gotten better at announcing both lately but years ago they never said anything about seconds. Thanks in advance!

[woodscommaelle]

On 7/12/2018 at 10:13 PM, scorpio1031 said:

Ashley Paige

Ashley Pro

Ashley Nicole

Ashley Marie

There has got to be an easier way:)

lol

[Laurenciamo]

I love these forums and the DCC.  I haven't been on here in a while so I'm not sure if this has been mentioned..  I was watching the new show, The Proposal, on ABC and I swear I saw Holly Powell in the audience.  It was on season one (obviously) episode 7 and and about 14 minutes into the show.  Holly is smiling and clapping...... Did anyone else catch this?!?  I am such a fangirl, I paused and looked at it like twenty times!!!  Is it her?????

[danitydon22]

On 6/2/2014 at 10:01 AM, sleepyjean said:

This is the first time I've seen an up close picture of the DCC Barbie. I wonder why she's looking off to the side. Is that a normal Barbie thing now? And I just found out the dolls aren't posable. Is that a thing they do with collectible dolls?

 

There's a website with descriptions of the three dolls and describes the hispanic and african american dolls as each having one bent arm and one straight arm, while the blonde doll has two straight arms. Funny that two of the dolls are identified by race/ethnicity, but they carefully avoid calling the other one white barbie or caucasian barbie.

 

And finally, it appears that mattell is no longer selling the barbies, but you can still get it other places.

Yea.. the way they are made makes no sense to what a DCC is.. which is posable/flexible. And yes the fact they have to label each doll by ethnicity except the "white"/Caucasian Barbie dolls is slightly shady. It is the south after all, I have lived there and as a mixed raced person I got some negative attention....

[PhoebeKelly1992]

Would love to see a new topic on here to share, discuss and perhaps dispel DCC related myths. Think Loni running off the field before the kickline. Guess we can discuss things like this in the former DCC topic or here lol ☺?

[Taralightner]

@hypeman- 

From your post in the Ep 1 thread:

Kitty- I love, love, love Kitty. Yep, she’s loud and sometimes harsh, but I see a lot of passion and caring behind all of that. Plus, I rarely disagree with what she’s saying to and individual dancer. Her across the room exercises? I think the other dancers on this forum would agree that none of them (that we’ve seen) are terribly difficult. (I’ve done several in my living room while watching the show.)

I think the reason that the cheerleaders get hung up on them is because they are fast; they are filled with direction changes (right to left, while moving forward); she teaches them fast and they are filled with a number of skills mixed together footwork, turns and kicks all in the same combo. I think she intends for them to require a dancer to have to use their brain.

You’ve taken classes, I’m sure if you broke them down, you could do them. Most include a few pas de bourree (back side front) a prep for outside turns on both sides, sometimes she throws in a turning pas de bourree. Other than that, I’ve seen cross steps, kick ball changes and even drag steps as the foot work. She usually has them do a double pirouette (outside) and done a lot to both sides. It messes with your brain, but it’s doable.

Her center of the floor combos look a lot like sassy jazz/ hip hopish/ Pom to me. From what I’ve seen, those are also really fast, taught really fast with the detail and enough direction and weight changes that make your brain hiccup. 

As far as current vets... it’s so hard to form an opinion based on 10-15 seconds of airtime. Unless a dancer has really been featured, I don’t think it’s fair to judge them.  Plus, I only see them doing Pom and DCC style so it’s really hard to judge unless their solo got a lot of airtime.

That’s why I use people like Emma, Jen K, Holly, and Erica in my assessment of who I think could dance on Broadway. (Asked by another poster). I think Jenna could hang with the LA crowd- she has commercial appeal IMO. 

I think Kelli (vet, not director), is a beautiful dancer. I’m drawn to Kashara for her performance quality. I think I remember Tara having good technique on her quick solo moment, but again, too little info to judge.  I don’t think any current vet shouldn’t be in her spot.  I think they all do that style well from what I’ve seen. 

Did I miss anything? 

[scorpio1031]

What you are all saying in the other threads reminds me of all the talk at the Olympics.  Remember when ice skaters performed figures?  Boring to watch, but was a great way to teach them the basics and improve their technique.  And now, it's all quads and salchows and jump, jump, jump with hardly any artistry, unless they are performing at an exhibition.

[parrotfeathers]

This question is for Taralightner.  I watched Dance Moms for a few years (muting much of the later years when it became nothing but desperate screaming drama among the moms).   Someone said something about Maddie and her lack of basic training or something like that.  I'd like to know which girl you consider to be the most successful dancer when it comes to technical training.  I always liked Chloe but she seemed very meek.  I loved Maddie's little sister.   It was fun watching her grow up.

[Taralightner]

16 hours ago, parrotfeathers said:

This question is for Taralightner.  I watched Dance Moms for a few years (muting much of the later years when it became nothing but desperate screaming drama among the moms).   Someone said something about Maddie and her lack of basic training or something like that.  I'd like to know which girl you consider to be the most successful dancer when it comes to technical training.  I always liked Chloe but she seemed very meek.  I loved Maddie's little sister.   It was fun watching her grow up.

I think the issue with the dance mom girls is that it looks to me like they stopped “training,” and started learning routines... I wasn’t there, so I can’t be sure, but at some point, it seems that the tv show became more important than their continued learning, and the choreo that they performed was really a different combination of the same steps. From what I remember, I would say Kalani was strongly trained into her early teens. Maddie had that natural performance quality that can’t be denied. But, when I watched, they all had a foundational knowledge for sure, and obviously executed the steps, but they seemed to have their growth stunted at some point. 

[parrotfeathers]

36 minutes ago, Taralightner said:

I think the issue with the dance mom girls is that it looks to me like they stopped “training,” and started learning routines... I wasn’t there, so I can’t be sure, but at some point, it seems that the tv show became more important than their continued learning, and the choreo that they performed was really a different combination of the same steps. From what I remember, I would say Kalani was strongly trained into her early teens. Maddie had that natural performance quality that can’t be denied. But, when I watched, they all had a foundational knowledge for sure, and obviously executed the steps, but they seemed to have their growth stunted at some point. 

Thanks so much!  I do agree Kalani was spectacular!

[Taralightner]

16 minutes ago, parrotfeathers said:

Thanks so much!  I do agree Kalani was spectacular!

The other thing about dance moms... they didn’t actually win as many times as shown on tv. I know people who have taken their dancers to the competitions with the dance mom show. They are HIGHLY produced- the girl’s solos were filmed several times (for different tv angles).  On the times that they didn’t win, there were was an alternative ending filmed showing them getting first place when they hadn’t even been in the top 3.  The comps that were filmed were usually discounted to other studios, and not nearly the amount of studios showed up for dance mom’s filming comps as a normal comp. Most of the studios that did show up did it as a novelty experience for their kids. (The dance mom characters would set up tables, sign autographs and sell tee-shirts.)

[nittanyvolleyball]

5 minutes ago, Taralightner said:

The other thing about dance moms... they didn’t actually win as many times as shown on tv. I know people who have taken their dancers to the competitions with the dance mom show. They are HIGHLY produced- the girl’s solos were filmed several times (for different tv angles).  On the times that they didn’t win, there were was an alternative ending filmed showing them getting first place when they hadn’t even been in the top 3.  The comps that were filmed were usually discounted to other studios, and not nearly the amount of studios showed up for dance mom’s filming comps as a normal comp. Most of the studios that did show up did it as a novelty experience for their kids. (The dance mom characters would set up tables, sign autographs and sell tee-shirts.)

I've heard that before, it's been clearly obvious that they don't win at points in the show but the producers cover it up. 

[DKay]

Don't know how to embed a link, but go to Titansonline.com > Photos > Titans Cheerleaders at Nissan Stadium > scroll forward to pages 67-70.  Obviously a lot of good eating in the South?.  Wonder what Judy, Kelly, Kitty and Jay would say...?...

[Kayce]

20 hours ago, nittanyvolleyball said:

I've heard that before, it's been clearly obvious that they don't win at points in the show but the producers cover it up. 

My daughter watched this show, I tried but I never could get into it.  It was WAY over produced, came off as fake and really it should have been called "The Maddie Show...oh and a few other dancers ".  I still don't understand all the fixation on Maddie.  From what I saw, Kalani was a better and much more entertaining dancer.  I'd rather watch JoJo (who was annoying as hell along with her mom) than watch a whole show focused on Maddie.  (inserting eye roll). 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Kayce

[nittanyvolleyball]

I think I'm getting passed over for a promotion for a second time and it seriously sucks.

[bigskygirl]

7 minutes ago, nittanyvolleyball said:

I think I'm getting passed over for a promotion for a second time and it seriously sucks.

So sorry to hear that. It does suck. {{{HUGS}}}

[Tulip86]

3 hours ago, nittanyvolleyball said:

I think I'm getting passed over for a promotion for a second time and it seriously sucks.

Aww so sorry to hear that :(

[GBPackersfan]

3 hours ago, nittanyvolleyball said:

I think I'm getting passed over for a promotion for a second time and it seriously sucks.

I'm so sorry to hear that! Is there a way you could meet with your director/manager/supervisor (I'm sorry I don't know much outside of healthcare!) and ask for some feedback? It may be a simple fix or you may get valid reasons. That could give you the opportunity to make changes and get the promotion. 

[EricaShadows]

4 hours ago, nittanyvolleyball said:

I think I'm getting passed over for a promotion for a second time and it seriously sucks.

That totally bites.  I hate when people work their tails off for a promotion and get passed over for whatever reason.  I agree with @GBPackersfan to ask to meet with the person or people who are in charge of the promotions and ask for feedback.  Also, take in a list of all the "extras" that you did (whether it's extra assignments, going above and beyond on projects, catching mistakes that could have cost big money or caused injuries, co-worker/customer feedback that highlight how hard-working and wonderful you are, etc.) so that they see what you've been doing.  Sometimes, they just don't see the same picture you do (and sometimes, someone distracts them because a co-worker is jealous of just how wonderful and amazing you are).

[nittanyvolleyball]

50 minutes ago, GBPackersfan said:

I'm so sorry to hear that! Is there a way you could meet with your director/manager/supervisor (I'm sorry I don't know much outside of healthcare!) and ask for some feedback? It may be a simple fix or you may get valid reasons. That could give you the opportunity to make changes and get the promotion. 

Yeah, I have a yearly review coming up with my boss, but it's a different boss than the one for the position. I'll probably ask him if there's anything I can do in the future that'll make me a better candidate. It just makes me want to leave since they keep hiring people from outside the company after talking about how they like to hire from within. 

 

3 minutes ago, EricaShadows said:

That totally bites.  I hate when people work their tails off for a promotion and get passed over for whatever reason.  I agree with @GBPackersfan to ask to meet with the person or people who are in charge of the promotions and ask for feedback.  Also, take in a list of all the "extras" that you did (whether it's extra assignments, going above and beyond on projects, catching mistakes that could have cost big money or caused injuries, co-worker/customer feedback that highlight how hard-working and wonderful you are, etc.) so that they see what you've been doing.  Sometimes, they just don't see the same picture you do (and sometimes, someone distracts them because a co-worker is jealous of just how wonderful and amazing you are).

Trust me, I highlighted that in my interview with HR and that I always ask for extra work since I have nothing to do. She told me she was glad I applied for the position, but then again the decision isn't up to her.

[sleepyjean]

We know there was a guy who auditioned for DCC this year, and some of us were discussing it last spring when the Rams chose two guys for their team. looks like they aren't the only ones. The Saints also have a guy on their team this year. I'll be so interested to see who this works with these teams who traditionally have girls in sexy, feminine outfits doing sexy, feminine choreo adapting to include guys. Will the guys use poms? Will they be in the swimsuit calendar? Times are a' changing.

Edited August 12, 2018 by sleepyjean

[scorpio1031]

1 hour ago, sleepyjean said:

We know there was a guy who auditioned for DCC this year, and some of us were discussing it last spring when the Rams chose two guys for their team. looks like they aren't the only ones. The Saints also have a guy on their team this year. I'll be so interested to see who this works with these teams who traditionally have girls in sexy, feminine outfits doing sexy, feminine choreo adapting to include guys. Will the guys use poms? Will they be in the swimsuit calendar? Times are a' changing.

Have the Rams played yet?  Does anyone know how the guys are doing?  

[scorpio1031]

@CaseyRe Moving the convo over from Field of Dreams - I might be in the minority, but I respect the way that Kris Jenner has dealt with her kids.  I mean, they are all multi millionaires or near billionaires thanks to her "momaging."  They all place family first which is great.  Now do I respect what some of them have done individually.....that's another story:)

As for Tina, I do not respect helicopter moms or moms who push their kids into anything.  I remember my sister's classmate - poor girl could never come over and play cause she had dance lessons, violin lessons, skating lessons, you name it.  Now if Victoria had known about the scholarship and wanted it, and it sounds as though her family could have helped make up the difference, than let her do it.  She doesn't have to stay in Dallas to become a DCC when she grows up.  It sounds more like Mom's dream.  And will she be able to do her laundry, cook a meal, etc if she moves out or will Mom do it?

It's scary how many young people these days have to have Mom hovering overhead, or how many parents are willing to do so.

[EricaShadows]

2 minutes ago, scorpio1031 said:

As for Tina, I do not respect helicopter moms or moms who push their kids into anything.  I remember my sister's classmate - poor girl could never come over and play cause she had dance lessons, violin lessons, skating lessons, you name it.  Now if Victoria had known about the scholarship and wanted it, and it sounds as though her family could have helped make up the difference, than let her do it.  She doesn't have to stay in Dallas to become a DCC when she grows up.  It sounds more like Mom's dream.  And will she be able to do her laundry, cook a meal, etc if she moves out or will Mom do it?

I get what you're saying.  I wonder if Tina didn't want Victoria to go to New York for selfish reasons (which it sounded like) or she didn't want Victoria to go because she knew the girl wasn't anywhere ready to head off on her own.  As for Tina vs. the Kardashians, at least Kris made sure that all her girls had marketable skills.  Tina seems to make sure that she keeps her kids close so that any reflection of theirs becomes hers.

[Loves2Dance]

Just now, EricaShadows said:

I get what you're saying.  I wonder if Tina didn't want Victoria to go to New York for selfish reasons (which it sounded like) or she didn't want Victoria to go because she knew the girl wasn't anywhere ready to head off on her own.  As for Tina vs. the Kardashians, at least Kris made sure that all her girls had marketable skills.  Tina seems to make sure that she keeps her kids close so that any reflection of theirs becomes hers.

I was doing some googling earlier because I know quite a bit about Tina and Victoria, but not much on the hubby and his connections with the Star. I came across an article about Victoria's older brother and it touched on his acting and his baseball career. In it, Tina was quoted as saying she thought he would make it into professional sports but that didn't pan out but he had been scouted for college and minor/major leagues...etc. She strikes me as a mom who wants her kids to achieve big things because those big things would make her look good---so keeping VK back from NYC is really odd/interesting. It seems that the only big thing she wants for VK is the DCC...which is incredibly sad, imo. 

And not to delve into the Kar-Jenner sisters, but I'll give Kris credit where it's due---she hustled and hustled and they have the money to back it up. But from a mothering aspects, those kids have been in constant competition with each other since their childhood and I do not see her as anything to aspire to on that front. 

[scorpio1031]

Not only that, but when it comes to the opposite sex, there is no self respect.  Look at the rapper Kim was dating way back when.  Look at how Kourtney's ex treated her and now Khloe.  They are all great parents though, and if the same thing were ever to happen to their daughters.....Look out!!

I've never wanted kids, so I have to look at all this as "what would I have done" and bottom line, I would have wanted my kids to be happy.  I wouldn't have wanted to pressure them into anything.  I wonder if some kids start getting pressured into things so early that they don't recognize it as pressure.  It's just how it has always been.  It's the expectation and that's it.

[Loves2Dance]

12 minutes ago, scorpio1031 said:

Not only that, but when it comes to the opposite sex, there is no self respect.  Look at the rapper Kim was dating way back when.  Look at how Kourtney's ex treated her and now Khloe.  They are all great parents though, and if the same thing were ever to happen to their daughters.....Look out!!

I've never wanted kids, so I have to look at all this as "what would I have done" and bottom line, I would have wanted my kids to be happy.  I wouldn't have wanted to pressure them into anything.  I wonder if some kids start getting pressured into things so early that they don't recognize it as pressure.  It's just how it has always been.  It's the expectation and that's it.

Yup! I grew up with a mom much like Tina. She wanted one of her kids, she had 4 and wasn't picky, to be the 'it' child. She needed that thing to brag about. I didn't recognize that her entire parenting mantra was basically a pressure cooker ready to explode until I was in my teens and started to evaluate the relationships my peers had with their moms/families. It was rather jarring especially when I realized I was killing myself academically for, essentially, her bragging rights. And when I didn't accept that really hefty scholarship to the college she always thought I'd go to (and enter as a junior because she had me in college by 10th grade) and instead, basically, ran away and got married to my high school sweetheart turned soldier, she completely fell to pieces. My 2 older sisters didn't amount to greatness and my brother behind me wasn't going to, so I was her last hope and eventually---around VK's age, I decided that wasn't the route I was going to take. Even looking back I'm so thankful I didn't take that road, I'd be miserable today. 

I still talk to my mom and I live semi-close to her, but I mitigate the time she has around my daughters. She still, even as a grandmother, doesn't know how to reign in her comments and because one of my sisters and I have kids relatively close in age, everything is a competition between them in her eyes. It's sad, but she's never going to change. My hope for VK is that she is able to get some distance and learn to stand on her own legs without mom in the shadows. 

[loveaux]

off topic but I had to share it, yallllll I made it to the second round of my college's cheer tryouts! I'm SO freaking excited to even have made it through the first round out of 50 odd something girls.

[PBSLover]

On 7/8/2018 at 10:26 PM, scorpio1031 said:

Who said "I've never had my butt drawn before.  Probably checked out a time or two."

Kandi Harris

[Txmomof2]

13 minutes ago, loveaux said:

off topic but I had to share it, yallllll I made it to the second round of my college's cheer tryouts! I'm SO freaking excited to even have made it through the first round out of 50 odd something girls.

Congrats!!! 

[MrsEVH]

Former TCC Kalli Fullerton is expecting a baby.

[Kayce]

11 hours ago, loveaux said:

off topic but I had to share it, yallllll I made it to the second round of my college's cheer tryouts! I'm SO freaking excited to even have made it through the first round out of 50 odd something girls.

Congrats!! That's a great accomplishment :) Good luck with the next round!!

Edited August 15, 2018 by Kayce

[Taralightner]

11 hours ago, loveaux said:

off topic but I had to share it, yallllll I made it to the second round of my college's cheer tryouts! I'm SO freaking excited to even have made it through the first round out of 50 odd something girls.

Sweet! Good for you! When is the next audition? How many spots available vs how many dancers still in the process? How many audition rounds? Anything we can do to help? Should we all call the director/coach and demand that you make it? Is there a SM account that we can flood with references for you? Can we all show up at auditions and be obnoxiously loud when it’s your turn? ??

Seriously, congratulations and please keep us posted!!! 

[ByTor]

11 hours ago, loveaux said:

off topic but I had to share it, yallllll I made it to the second round of my college's cheer tryouts! I'm SO freaking excited to even have made it through the first round out of 50 odd something girls.

This is small talk, you're not off-topic :)

That being said, YES!!!!!!  Good job...and good luck!!!

[loveaux]

4 hours ago, Taralightner said:

Sweet! Good for you! When is the next audition? How many spots available vs how many dancers still in the process? How many audition rounds? Anything we can do to help? Should we all call the director/coach and demand that you make it? Is there a SM account that we can flood with references for you? Can we all show up at auditions and be obnoxiously loud when it’s your turn? ??

Seriously, congratulations and please keep us posted!!! 

yall are so cute lmao! the next round is today, today we learn a dance and a cheer, then they're doing cuts. Tomorrow is the last day and that's when they decide who makes the team. So in all it's about 3 rounds? But it's been cut down to 17 of us, so it's not too bad of a number.

I'll update you guys on tonight's results!

[ByTor]

@loveaux...

[Kayce]

53 minutes ago, loveaux said:

yall are so cute lmao! the next round is today, today we learn a dance and a cheer, then they're doing cuts. Tomorrow is the last day and that's when they decide who makes the team. So in all it's about 3 rounds? But it's been cut down to 17 of us, so it's not too bad of a number.

I'll update you guys on tonight's results!

[Law Mom]

Good luck, Loveaux! I'm excited for you! My daughter is on her college pom squad and it has been one of the best parts of her college years.

[EricaShadows]

Good luck and I hope you make it, Loveux!  Just getting the courage to get out there and DO it is amazing.  BTW, is there tumbling or stunting involved?  Those are two reasons (besides my weight) that I never auditioned when I was in college.  I'm just not that flexible nor am I light enough to be tossed around like a feather.

Oh, I forgot!  I just found Vivien's gofundme, for when she was trying to start her own youtube channel.  She raised just over $2,500, which is a respectable sum.  However, her goal was to get $1,000,000.  I doubt that money would have been used solely for her youtube channel.  Some (if not most of it) would likely have ended up elsewhere.  It's also been over three years since anyone donated, but, as far as I can see, it's still open for donating though not a cent has been earned in 36 months.  I wonder if the money is still sitting there or if she's used it.

Edited August 15, 2018 by EricaShadows

[nittanyvolleyball]

3 minutes ago, EricaShadows said:

Good luck and I hope you make it, Loveux!  Just getting the courage to get out there and DO it is amazing.  BTW, is there tumbling or stunting involved?  Those are two reasons (besides my weight) that I never auditioned when I was in college.  I'm just not that flexible nor am I light enough to be tossed around like a feather.

Oh, I forgot!  I just found Vivien's gofundme, for when she was trying to start her own youtube channel.  She raised just over $2,500, which is a respectable sum.  However, her goal was to get $1,000,000.  I doubt that money would have been used solely for her youtube channel.  Some (if not most of it) would likely have ended up elsewhere.

A million dollars or $100,000?!

[Law Mom]

Youtube is free, lol.

[EricaShadows]

1 minute ago, nittanyvolleyball said:

A million dollars or $100,000?!

Her stated goal is a million dollars.

[nittanyvolleyball]

Just now, EricaShadows said:

Her stated goal is a million dollars.

W.T.F.

[EricaShadows]

6 minutes ago, nittanyvolleyball said:

W.T.F.

I know.  That's why I was really skeptical it was entirely for her youtube channel.  I suspect she didn't want to have a "real" job, even a part time one, and wanted other people to give her enough money to live off of for a while so she could make a go of being a "social media influencer" or something like that.

There was also a girl named Kelly Porazzo who did a gofundme to raise money to audition for this year's squad.  Her goal was $700 and she made that as well as made semis (she was #7 and wearing a bright red outfit).  I don't think she made it any further, but, hey, at least she made semis.

Edited August 15, 2018 by EricaShadows

[scorpio1031]

49 minutes ago, EricaShadows said:

I know.  That's why I was really skeptical it was entirely for her youtube channel.  I suspect she didn't want to have a "real" job, even a part time one, and wanted other people to give her enough money to live off of for a while so she could make a go of being a "social media influencer" or something like that

I hear IHOP is hiring.

[ByTor]

4 hours ago, Law Mom said:

Youtube is free, lol.

I didn't know that.  I assumed there was some cost because of all the channels that have ads.

[Loves2Dance]

40 minutes ago, ByTor said:

I didn't know that.  I assumed there was some cost because of all the channels that have ads.

Youtube is free to upload videos too. For videos that play ads, when you get enough subscribers/views those ads give you money. While most YouTube channels don't make anything and a handful make gas money, there is a small 1% of channels who make $100,000+ a year. An even smaller 0.01% have made millions. I would imagine her goal was to get the items needed to make money on YouTube---rarely does anything go viral or gain subscribers without efforts and funds. There is a lot of marketing, time, production, editing, camera, lighting, tripods...etc, etc that go into a successful channel. 

[loveaux]

YALL WE'RE GOING TO FINALS TOMORROW!!! I shook my butt and hit those motions and jammed out as hard as I could today and it paid off! I will be back tomorrow to let you guys know the final results!!

Also yes there is tumbling involved but not stunting! I'm not a heavy tumbler, I'm more of a jumper kind of girl lol. 

Edited August 16, 2018 by loveaux
extra info!