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S02.E02: Kill Them All


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PRISON BREAK!!!!!!!

Between making Robot cry and slapping Five in front of Robot everybody had to die.  I cheered a little when Five told Robot to kill them all.  The scene was all kinds of awesome.

Bringing a gun to a sword fight is kinda cheating but Five was right.  They didn't have time for this shit.  If the crew doesn't accept Five as a full member now.....

Loved the interigation scene where Two, and Four said they weren't talking but Three basically said "I'm listening" before he told the woman to go to hell.  That is pure three.  

Interesting thing about Six is that he is the character that makes a choice and then choses again.  I like how it didn't take him all that long to realize he had made the wrong one and try to correct it.

So far this season is looking really good.  

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13 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Bringing a gun to a sword fight is kinda cheating but Five was right.  They didn't have time for this shit.

Shade of Indiana Jones there...

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I liked this episode a lot - I'm glad they wrapped up the prison thing, and I like the new additions (the medic guy, Arax, Nyx and the swordswoman), so I hope they stick around, or show up later.  The android was awesome, and 5/Emily really showed how smart she is.  For some reason, 3/Boone was looking especially good, for the first time I saw him as a handsome man.  I can't believe they killed of Franke Potente already!   The only thing I did not like -the cartoonishly evil businesswoman.

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PRISON BREAK!!!!!!!

In space!

This episode had so much goodness! Arax helping out the Raza Crew (which was of course driven by self interest). Two taking charge (as usual). Three obsessing about food ("are those grapes?" Ha!) Four rangling a shuttle for the team. Six getting back in with the rest of the Raza Crew by helping them escape. Five being a damn boss. I loved it all. 

I'm curious to see if Nyx or Devon will end up being a double agent. And what does Evil Businesswoman want with Five/Emily?

Is that the end of Commander Shaddick?

Six better not be gone for good.

Edited by Gillian Rosh
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I didn't want them to be stuck in the prison long, but didn't expect them to be out quite this soon.  Hooray!

"As a member of the crew, you have to do what I say, right?"  "That is correct."  "Kill Them All." {Android beats them all up before kiling them all} >>> my reaction:  *fist pump* BOO-YEAH!

So it would seem that Mikkei Corp, or at least Trufault, is throwing all their eggs in one basket, in helping the Raza escape. 

Traugot wants the Raza peeps dead - or so said the warden - that seems like an interesting development, seeing as how One had a Traugot pendant.

Once Jace Corso is on-board, that's going to be a fairly full boat.  Two, Three, Four, Five, Six (in stasis [for now]), Android, Nyx, surgeon dude, Arax and then JC.  And if Ryo's friend ends up tagging along at some point, that'll make 11(10) of them.

12 minutes ago, gaby4ever25 said:

Marc Bendavid wasn't in the credits. Does that mean  One is really dead?  If so, I'm done. I know he wasn't popular but he was my favorite. 

Just a classic case of attempted misdirection.  Which was essentially pointless, when the interview article posted in last week's episode thread it was confirmed - by Joseph Mallozzi, no less - that MB would still be around, even if only as Jace Corso.

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Sometimes BAMF means Boring And Moronic Fuckups. 

The problem with Emily killing them all is that the woman who kills half a dozen people because, isn't a waif who needs a family. And Kal Varrick might blow away a bunch of people in shock over a huge massacre but blowing away a friend because he doesn't want to let a bunch of killers loose is just sleazy. The competitive sadism between Ryo and his lady friend really drives home how much wanting to be the kind [king! I meant king!] means wanting to be a psychopath. In other words, the show has really committed to the new atmosphere produced by the removal of the noxiously nice Moss. Not looking forward to the preposterous Jace Corso.

The only problem is, now they've got everyone committed to being the best villains in the universe, just like before the amnesia. They've made their choices, so the real drama's over. The rest is just complications and who wins. There's not much suspense about that, it's going to be Our Heroes. The only question is, is audience investment in the cool characters remaining enough to make it entertaining? If this is an example, I'm not so sure it entertains me.

Edited by sjohnson
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I was rapt from start to finish. I shouldn't really be all "whee!" about multiple killings and a 16-year-old having no conscience, but there it is. Blueilocks and the Three Guns.

Pretty convenient that the crew saw the news about One's death before they started trying to retrieve him, too. I will miss you, Moss, but there are plenty o' others now and Stasis Six seems to be slipping into the role of the group's soft-spoken goody two shoes, if I need that.

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I know no spoilers so this is just judging from what I saw on the screen today....Is it possible Franka Potente's character isn't dead?  The reason I think she may not be "dead" is  because the Android hesitated TWICE during the fight before shooting her and there seemed to be a moment where they locked eyes just before Android shot her.  I sat there thinking maybe Android was having a problem with the term "kill." What If Franka is another Android(or something immortal) ?  Maybe technically you can't "kill" her so she couldn't "Kill them All" so Android was glitching trying to obey orders.  It's an out there theory I admit but weirder things have happened in Sci Fi.  I wouldn't mind if Franka stuck around. I like her acting.

I smiled because "Kill them All" was something associated with Xena Warrior Princess and twice Lucy Lawless said it in two other tv shows, possibly 3.  Too bad she couldn't have had a part in this ep.

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I actually enjoyed this episode a lot. Not sure, but this may be the first for this show. It had lots of action, but still enough character interaction, and the number of plotlines wasn't too distracting. 

It's weird they put Six on the bus. Maybe it's because Roger Cross has an obligation to appear in every show filmed in Canada (or at least sci-fi ones)? Otherwise I have no idea what was the purpose of taking Six away from the action.

Weird they killed Franka Potente so soon. She sorta reminded me of Faye Dunaway's character on Alias season 2 - also a big name actress (well, for Dark Matter, it's a big name) playing a bitchy investigator. Although Faye was so much cooler. And a better investigator, too.

So, Jace Corso wasn't planning to switch with dead Derrick. Pity. Still not sure Derrick's dead, however. I'm really skeptical when it comes to main character deaths these days.

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Whoa!  Four's former classmate or whatever she was, was totally Ellen Wong!  I haven't seen her since she was Knives Chau on Scott Pilgrim vs. the World!  That was great.  I hope she shows up again and they actually finish their fight, although Five using the gun was probably the right thing.  Ain't got time for fancy kung-fu, now!

The crew of the Raza already escaped prison, I see.  None of them even had to tattoo their bodies to do it!  Just some red lipstick and the bottom of the bunk beds!  They did get a few additional crew-mates, with Nyx, Arax, and the doctor guy all joining the party.  And, if that mysterious lady is to believed, one of them is her agent.  Time for another round of who is the traitor?!

 Five unleashing the Android on everyone was great, although I'm surprised that they already killed off Franka Potente's character.  I wonder if she only had limited availability or they always attended to suddenly kill off the more recognizable guest star this quickly.

Six sees the errors of his way and helps out, only to get shot for his troubles, and is now in stasis, until they can figure out what the hell they can do. I'm sure this will give Roger Cross time to appear on another Canadian-based show.  Or two.  Or three...

Marc Bendavid wasn't in the main credits, but we'll see.  I'm guessing One really is done for, but he'll be back as Jace Corso.

Mysterious lady seems to have some kind of connection to five.  And, in typical Canadian-based show fashion, played by another familiar face: Inga Cadranel, who I remember best as Detective Angela on Orphan Black.

Three's lines and reactions to everything continue to be perfect and totally in character. 

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I'm glad they added in the news report at the end, and worded it the way they did... because it for sure means that they won't be going with a storyline of Corso trying to take over as heir-apparent CEO of Corelactic.   I kept seeing theories/predictions that was going to be his (JC's) immediate next move, but I couldn't make the pieces fit in my mind for that scenario to work logically, when it would become obvious quickly that he was the real Jace Corso - via DNA testing, refusing plastic surgery to go back to his original appearance as Derrick Moss, lack of IQ and knowledge of Corelactic and running a huge multi-trillion bar industry, etc. - was indeed JC and not DM masquerading as JC.

Edited by iRarelyWatchTV36
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 for that scenario to work logically, when it would become obvious quickly that he was the real Jace Corso - via DNA testing, refusing plastic surgery to go back to his original appearance as Derrick Moss, lack of IQ and knowledge of Corelactic and running a huge multi-trillion bar industry, etc. - was indeed JC and not DM masquerading as JC.

But he could have changed his looks. Why not? As for the lack of knowledge, it's not like real DM had it either, as his mind was wiped anyway. And considering DM's behavior in s1, I'm not sure his IQ was that high. I think he inherited the company anyway, so it's like he's supposed to be this great thinker.

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4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

 

The crew of the Raza already escaped prison, I see.  None of them even had to tattoo their bodies to do it!  Just some red lipstick and the bottom of the bunk beds!  They did get a few additional crew-mates, with Nyx, Arax, and the doctor guy all joining the party.  And, if that mysterious lady is to believed, one of them is her agent.  Time for another round of who is the traitor?!

 Five unleashing the Android on everyone was great, although I'm surprised that they already killed off Franka Potente's character.  I wonder if she only had limited availability or they always attended to suddenly kill off the more recognizable guest star this quickly.

 

I had heard Adam Carolla joking about how people talk to their mooks and how would they know if something like "take them out" meant escort them outside or put a bullet in their head. One thing is certain Five is now on the Galactic Authority's wanted list. Assuming she survives the mystery woman in the next episode and is not lost in the reboot like One and Six were. Given her character age I guess that she will remain on

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Well, that was excellent. Considering how many factions were in play either to save or to kill the crew of the Raza it could have easily gone very convoluted and confusing but the dialogues and editing were excellent and it was always clear who was moving which pieces and the necessary exposition was handled tight and elegantly. Very impressive writing.

I loved Five being a boss and pulling a Daenerys with Shaddick and her henchmen. I loved her even more for breaking off the sword-fight. There really was no time. The Android not following Six's orders was cold and speaking of her: Her hesitance to shoot Shaddick must mean something - probably that we'll see Franka Potente again. Which is fine by me. More troublesome is probably that the Android wasn't able to establish a neural link. It was one of those 'blink-and-you'll-miss-it' moments the show is actually getting quite good at.

Traugott seem to be the really big bad wolf (btw. the warden thinking that it reflects badly on his command structure when his guards can't deliver on a hit was hilarious). And I wonder if they're not also behind Two's creation since they're quite into that immortality thing. And even though Shaddick had a pretty good notion of Traugott being the ones behind the white-hole bomb she has no idea about their attempts to continue the Taurian-Alpha research. The Raza crew could have given her that instead of incriminating themselves in the mass-murder charges. But she wasn't particularly nice to them.

I wonder how long the new crew members will last. At least their presence will add some new dynamics. Arax and Nyx were a given but I'm surprised about the nurse (Vons?).

Lady in White seems to be tied to Five and One (RIP) - the first was obvious but the second one is a bit of a surprise. She seems to be interested in getting her hands on his company so maybe she ordered the hit or it was as Six's dead friend suspected the first murder on whoever had the Raza crew on his/her hit-list.

Consider me intrigued and pleasantly surprised by all the riddles and mysteries - looking forward to the rest of the season (I wasn't so sure about that after last week)!

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I know it was meant to be a cool moment but Five telling the Android to "kill them all" was not a good idea to me.  The Android was capable of rendering them all unconscious and helping Five escape. Did they really all deserve to die on Five's whim? Five always seemed the more soft-hearted one and now she's a stone cold killer like the rest?

The same goes for Six. He's been struggling to figure out who he is and his place in the world. I understand when he saw the the organization he worked for was as corrupt as all the others, and heard that the crew of the Raza was going to be killed he changed his mind and switched sides. I don't understand how he could kill his friend.

I don't know if i like the crew now that they are rediscovering their original personalities.

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3 hours ago, snowwhyte said:

I know it was meant to be a cool moment but Five telling the Android to "kill them all" was not a good idea to me.  The Android was capable of rendering them all unconscious and helping Five escape. Did they really all deserve to die on Five's whim? Five always seemed the more soft-hearted one and now she's a stone cold killer like the rest?

Yeah, given recent events, it's hard for me to be all "woo, hoo, you go girl, you badass!" about someone deciding to just kill people like that. Maybe some of them were in on the scheme and were actual bad guys, but some of them seemed to just be doing their jobs with the best knowledge they had available.

The reason I liked this show in the first place was that I was intrigued by the concept of starting with a clean slate, the idea of what would you be if you didn't know who you were, without all your baggage and memories? While there were nuances to how they got to where they were that kept them from all being the awful people their records indicated, they had mostly done some bad stuff, and they were getting a fresh start, a chance to build new lives, even while dealing with the consequences of a past they didn't remember. It had the potential to be a redemption story. Now it seems to be heading to a more conventional crew of antiheroes story, since even the "nice" ones are doing coldbloodedly awful things and they've apparently killed off the person who was the spokesperson for doing the right thing. I know One wasn't a popular character (the nice guy seldom is, sadly), but I found it interesting that his true self came out even when he thought he had been a criminal and murderer, and there was something potentially interesting about the contrast between him and the rest of the crew. I have to say that given the developments in the first couple of episodes, I'm much less interested in the series going forward. It gets maybe one more episode before it falls into "I may catch up with it OnDemand" territory, and possibly a few episodes after that, depending on how interested I remain.

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So-called badass moments tend to have questionable ethics. I still remember Oliver Queen killing plenty of henchmen in season 1 of Arrow (while allowing their villain bosses to live on) and people trying to defend his actions. I don't think Five's kill-order can be justified but I also don't think it needs to be. Five has definitely become corrupted (she has killed before though there was some justification for doing so - but it probably was her first step on a slippery slope nevertheless.). The question is by what? By the bad company of the Raza or by dealing with a deeply corrupted system itself? Everybody on that moon was corrupt/had a hidden agenda. How do you survive in such a system? And how can you find redemption? Six tried probably the hardest and he failed more than once because the system betrayed him again and again.

It remains to be seen if the anti-hero act itself will turn into at least a partial redemption arc when the crew of the Raza brings the down the whole house of cards. It looks as if they will be forced to do so if they want to survive.

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38 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I know One wasn't a popular character (the nice guy seldom is, sadly), but I found it interesting that his true self came out even when he thought he had been a criminal and murderer, and there was something potentially interesting about the contrast between him and the rest of the crew.

I thought One was the most interesting character, and he was probably intended to be.   He was the one that pointed out that everyone's true self was coming out in their actions last season.  My guess is that the medic, Devon Taltherd, played by Shaun Sipos,  is going to be the conscience now.  He's not a doctor, just another prisoner with some skills that got him some privileges.  Could they have made his tagging along any more awkward?

43 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I'm much less interested in the series going forward. It gets maybe one more episode before it falls into "I may catch up with it OnDemand" territory, and possibly a few episodes after that, depending on how interested I remain.

I completely agree.  The Android is the most interesting character to me now. Maybe it's because she's the actress that I've seen the most.  I'm still slogging through the last episodes of Lost Girl.   I only watched this today to see if there was some other resolution to the Moss/Corso ending.  I was bored until the Prison Break and Danerys' "Kill Them All" scene.  The rest of the actors are just not that interesting.  They need to space that leader of the prison gang as soon as possible.  There are too many people on the conveniently retrieved Raza now.   Nyx has to be the double agent, because what's the point of having another Two.  Three needs a new foil.  Four's swordfight slowed down the pace of the show.   Five needs a romantic interest, hello Devon.  I can't believe that Six is going to be in Stasis for long.  Doesn't the Android have more medical skills than Devon? 

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It's interesting how different people see this series and the "Kill Them All" part.  I saw it as extremely earned by a character who all last season was looking for her place and finally found it only to be torn from them by a corrupt system.  We still don't know all that much about Five except that she was a run away (from who and where we don't know) and values loyalty almost above all else.  She is capable of violence but it was always in protection of the crew of the Raza and you could make the point this time was as well.  It will be interesting to learn more about Five and to watch her find her place among the crew for better and for worse.

Plus the Kill Them All scene was just cool to watch.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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15 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

I'm curious to see if Nyx or Devon will end up being a double agent. And what does Evil Businesswoman want with Five/Emily?

It's probably Arax. That might account for why he went from warning Four not to make waves to helping them escape. As for what Evil Businesswoman wants with Five, remember how Five got in the Raza in the first place. She stole something that someone was willing to slaughter all her friends to get back and stowed away on the Raza to get away from them. 

Evil Businesswoman must be after that thingy as well. 

15 hours ago, gaby4ever25 said:

Marc Bendavid wasn't in the credits. Does that mean  One is really dead?  If so, I'm done. I know he wasn't popular but he was my favorite. 

Even if he comes back as Corso?

15 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

So it would seem that Mikkei Corp, or at least Trufault, is throwing all their eggs in one basket, in helping the Raza escape. 

I'm guessing that was Trufault's doing, behind Mikkei's back. Remember that it's in Mikkei's best interest to shift the blame for the destruction of Iriden 3 back to Traugott Corp so they can get the Galactic Authority off their backs, so the last thing they would want is for the Raza's crew to escape custody. But if the crew of the Raza confesses to everything exactly as it happened, Mikkei would still be implicated in the theft of another corporation's research. They would be cleared of the big crime by being implicated in another minor one. 

The obvious solution for Mikkei would be to pin the blame for the theft on Trufault since she was the one who hired the crew. So if the crew confesses what really happened to Iriden 3, Trufault is as good as dead, since I doubt Mikkei is going to deliver her alive to be questioned by the GA.

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I'm not certain One is gone for good.  The one thing this show has done exceptionally well from the start is intrigue.  Four didn't actually kill his father but hey his whole planet thinks he did so he dispatchers with every assassin that come kill him.  Six was expecting to steal a big ship not blow up a space station and hey he's an undercover cop.  Three is a thief most definetly and a  mercenary but he might not be a murder. I doubt Marc Bendabid's name not being in the credits means anything. It's possible he will be out of the story for half a season until the murder of his wife becomes relevant to the larger story then either One or Corso will be back.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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17 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Traugot wants the Raza peeps dead - or so said the warden - that seems like an interesting development, seeing as how One had a Traugot pendant.

Once Jace Corso is on-board, that's going to be a fairly full boat.  Two, Three, Four, Five, Six (in stasis [for now]), Android, Nyx, surgeon dude, Arax and then JC.  And if Ryo's friend ends up tagging along at some point, that'll make 11(10) of them.

One didn't have a Traugott pendant, he had a pendant from one of the Miners. I doubt Corso is coming on board; more likely, the crew will track him down (or run into him) and kill him or at least attempt do so (revenge for one - whatever the Raza crew is from a morality POV, most members will defend or avenge one of their own).

14 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

 They did get a few additional crew-mates, with Nyx, Arax, and the doctor guy all joining the party.  And, if that mysterious lady is to believed, one of them is her agent.  Time for another round of who is the traitor?!

 Five unleashing the Android on everyone was great, although I'm surprised that they already killed off Franka Potente's character.  I wonder if she only had limited availability or they always attended to suddenly kill off the more recognizable guest star this quickly.

Six sees the errors of his way and helps out, only to get shot for his troubles, and is now in stasis, until they can figure out what the hell they can do. I'm sure this will give Roger Cross time to appear on another Canadian-based show.  Or two.  Or three...

Marc Bendavid wasn't in the main credits, but we'll see.  I'm guessing One really is done for, but he'll be back as Jace Corso.

Mysterious lady seems to have some kind of connection to five.  And, in typical Canadian-based show fashion, played by another familiar face: Inga Cadranel, who I remember best as Detective Angela on Orphan Black.

Three's lines and reactions to everything continue to be perfect and totally in character. 

About Reynaud's (that's the mysterious business lady) "asset": since it looks like Nyx and Devon (the doctor) are supposed to become regulars (they are on the box of the S2-DVD cover, for one thing, and Mallozzi has also indicated this on his blog), Arax Nero (played by veteran actor Mike Dopud) is quite high on the list. Arax had a sudden change of heart about escaping, and Nyx wanted to get involved with the crew right from the start, both of which are suspicious. If it's Nyx, it will probably be a long game and that would resemble 6's storyline from last year rather a lot.

Since the Android could have been tampered with while under GA control - like MISSLUCAS, I noted that the Android didn't manage to get a neural connection with the Raza, which should simply have worked - she could be the 'asset', too. It would be painful for Five if that would be the case.

I suspect that Devon will get an episode to prove his worth to the crew (and to properly showcase the character and actor to the public), and I'm guessing that he will operate on and save Six once they get the necessary equipment. Five's proposal to use Stasis bought them time to do so.

The character Three, the actor and the scripts really come together. Along with Two and Android, those are the most charismatic elements of the show.

8 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Well, that was excellent. Considering how many factions were in play either to save or to kill the crew of the Raza it could have easily gone very convoluted and confusing but the dialogues and editing were excellent and it was always clear who was moving which pieces and the necessary exposition was handled tight and elegantly. Very impressive writing.

I loved Five being a boss and pulling a Daenerys with Shaddick and her henchmen. I loved her even more for breaking off the sword-fight. There really was no time. The Android not following Six's orders was cold and speaking of her: Her hesitance to shoot Shaddick must mean something - probably that we'll see Franka Potente again. Which is fine by me. More troublesome is probably that the Android wasn't able to establish a neural link. It was one of those 'blink-and-you'll-miss-it' moments the show is actually getting quite good at.

Traugott seem to be the really big bad wolf (btw. the warden thinking that it reflects badly on his command structure when his guards can't deliver on a hit was hilarious). And I wonder if they're not also behind Two's creation since they're quite into that immortality thing. And even though Shaddick had a pretty good notion of Traugott being the ones behind the white-hole bomb she has no idea about their attempts to continue the Taurian-Alpha research. The Raza crew could have given her that instead of incriminating themselves in the mass-murder charges. But she wasn't particularly nice to them.

I wonder how long the new crew members will last. At least their presence will add some new dynamics. Arax and Nyx were a given but I'm surprised about the nurse (Vons?).

Lady in White seems to be tied to Five and One (RIP) - the first was obvious but the second one is a bit of a surprise. She seems to be interested in getting her hands on his company so maybe she ordered the hit or it was as Six's dead friend suspected the first murder on whoever had the Raza crew on his/her hit-list.

Consider me intrigued and pleasantly surprised by all the riddles and mysteries - looking forward to the rest of the season (I wasn't so sure about that after last week)!

Agreed about the Android - they didn't show that randomly for no reason, the neural link should just work unless either the Android or the Raza have been tampered with. Lots of things were done to the Android.

I was shocked by Five giving that order, and more so (because it couldn't be guessed from previews) that the Android would actually obey and that without a last gasp change-of-heart by Five. Still, I don't consider this a reboot of the show: Five had been growing harder throughout the first season, and she did kill before. The other characters are not acting out of character, and One's dead was probably planned well in advance.

I guess Shaddick should have played the crew more in terms of payback on the corporations, and given all of them a deal. Now she ended up paying (I guess - Android may have hesitated but it still looked deadly, and Five's order wasn't retracted) the price, far sooner then I had expected. Speaking to Shaddick about Traugott's illegal research and the mutation virus would have lead quickly to 2's superhuman abilities, and it was well established that everything on the ship wanted to keep that hidden, even 6.

Devon (the medic) actually should be a fallen surgeon, in a bit of a Firefly-recall. Mallozi talked a bit about that on his blog.

It does seem like Reynaud is involved with Corelactic as well as whatever Five was involved in, which would be surprising if so.

The world of DM indeed is dark; it's now clear that the GA is extremely corrupt, and the corporations are ruthless. Five's dark turn plays into this (and I'm not sure we're meant to cheer at that line). I did have a problem with Ferris Corp pushing for a trial, as that would very likely prove Ferris wanted the miners from the pilot episode dead.

What was nicely done about the first two episodes of S2 is that everyone played a role: even 3's foray into medical proved to be important. This show is good about giving little clues and hints to set things up.

Edited by Wouter
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(edited)
1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

I'm not certain One is gone for good.  The one thing this show has done exceptionally well from the start is intrigue.  Four didn't actually kill his father but hey his whole planet thinks he did so he dispatchers with every assassin that come kill him.  Six was expecting to steal a big ship not blow up a space station and hey he's an undercover cop.  Three is a thief most definetly and a  mercenary but he might not be a murder. I doubt Marc Bendabid's name not being in the credits means anything. It's possible he will be out of the story for half a season until the murder of his wife becomes relevant to the larger story then either One or Corso will be back.

I thought it was pretty clear that Corso is on the payroll of the woman who is after Five, so I think Corso will be the adversary of the crew for a while.  And then there will be a shocking twist that One made a deal with Corso to trade places.  One finds his wife's killer.  Corso gets to be very rich.  And then One double crosses and kills him.  They were pushing very hard on all the crew choosing loyalty to each other over morality the last two episodes.  If Five can order Android to 'kill them all' then One can kill Corso.  And there is no reason to spend that much time setting up his backstory just to kill him off.

The snafu in the plan is that the crew is supposed to be in on it. But, whoops Six is in stasis.  And that is why Six isn't recovered.  Hijinks.  Six isn't dead because he has to corroborate One's story later on.

The DNA on the dead body means nothing when you have it at your disposal and assets to bribe people.

Edited by ParadoxLost
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I loved how intricately the escape plan came together with various characters acting both for and against our heroes, but did get a smirk out of the toilet paper riot. Let's all just start punching random people for no reason and tossing streamers from the balcony.

Pretty shitty security for such a high tech prison of the future, what with letting visitors eyeball-transmit information to inmates, lack of audio monitoring in the cells and general population, and an entire VR world for more elaborate plotting. I also wonder how a facility was built on a planet with no atmosphere -- maybe robotics, or space suits for the construction workers?

Do we know exactly why Mikkei/Truffault is willing to help the Raza crew? They were allies last season against Ferrous Corp but there seems to be something else at work.

The Corporations are evil, the Galactic Authority is evil. The deck is pretty stacked in this universe.

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I'm surprised others seemed to think the Android was hesitating to kill Shaddick, because her reaction shot when Shaddick slapped Five was so perfect: Zoie Palmer did a fantastic job of conveying anger, but robotic anger. And the Android was fucking thrilled - again, with a robotic feel to it - when Five gave the "Kill them all" order. It was like, "I thought you'd never ask. Whee!" And out of the "all" Shaddick would have been highest on her list, for slapping Five. I didn't take her pause before shooting Shaddick to be hesitation, just the director's way of underlining that character's death since she was played by Franka Potente while the others were just unknowns. You have to give a name actor like Potente a reaction shot.

One nice subtle detail was that when the Android saw Six, she immediately called him "Lieutenant," and indeed never called him Six once, but when Five was there, the Android specifically called her Five. (One could argue the Android doesn't know Five's real name, but she didn't need to call her anything at all if that was the case.) So it was no surprise when the Android told Six that she didn't consider him part of the crew. I like that the characters are sticking to their numbers - their names are only for outsiders to use.

Another nice subtle bit was Two's slightly uncertain "Hi" upon seeing Five. I don't know if the show plans to address any of last season's finale other than Six's betrayal in dialogue, and if not, kudos to Melissa O'Neil for doing a nonverbal callback with her reaction to Five. After all, last time she saw Five, Five was convinced she was the traitor and was trying to take her down, so it's natural for Two to feel a bit uncertain around Five right now. Out of everyone on the Raza, Five is probably the one she least expected to think she was the traitor. Granted, Five explained to One that she thought something had been done to Two when she was being held captive, which mitigates that somewhat - it's different to think that someone has been brainwashed into attacking you than that someone is freely choosing to attack you - but Two doesn't know that part.

I thought evil corporation lady just meant Five when she asked about whether their asset had made it out, since she was so interested in Five earlier. But I guess she could have just assumed Five was included in her minion's talk of the Raza crew escaping, and wanted to know about someone they have working for them. I hope it's not Nyx like someone else wants, though, because the Raza crew badly needs more adult human women. Two is the only one they've had, and I love Two, but she needs another adult human woman or two to interact with. Five's a teenager; Android's an android, she's sentient but she is sentient in an android way, not a human way, something Zoie Palmer is, again, very good at conveying. (Plus I'm not sure it's even appropriate to gender her - does she think of herself as female?) Even with the apparent loss of One (and please let him stay gone - Six fills the role of the moral conscience and Roger Cross actually knows how to play that in an interesting and appealing way, unlike MB), the adult male contingent on the Raza has still increased by one. So Nyx had better stick around, and if there's a double agent, let it be one of the men.

Glad they're out of the prison - for me, this show belongs on the Raza, where it's able to focus on the interpersonal dynamics. I'm looking forward to the storyline teased briefly in this episode of the Android having had damage done to her neural capabilities. We know from S1 that she can have feelings of insecurity, and not having her full capabilities should bring that up again. Five will probably fix her eventually, but I imagine it will take time for Five to figure out how since it's a good complication for the show.

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3 hours ago, Wouter said:

One didn't have a Traugott pendant, he had a pendant from one of the Miners.

No, he actually had one before interacting with the miners - or at least thought he did.  One found it under the pillow of the room he 'picked' as his own, at the start of the series, and then only became very curious about it when he saw the cute miner wearing it, and asked her about it.  It was brought up again in 2.1 that it was most likely his, the one he found back in 1.1, when Six got him another one to replace the old one.

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8 hours ago, Wouter said:

The character Three, the actor and the scripts really come together. Along with Two and Android, those are the most charismatic elements of the show.

Yeah, I think he's my favorite character at the moment. I still don't quite dig the Android actress, but I like the character. As for Two, she's good playing the straight man who gets shit done (and looks awesome doing it). 

I'm glad the crew reunited, at least we'll get some new development for some character relationships that was missing, like Two and Five who were slowly becoming friends (or rather big sis/lil sis) in s1, before the finale. I guess now that we don't have One, Three could be bickering with Four (or Six after he's defrosted), they are all pretty different.

7 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

And then there will be a shocking twist that One made a deal with Corso to trade places.  One finds his wife's killer.  Corso gets to be very rich. 

The only question is... who's the body then?

 

5 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Six fills the role of the moral conscience and Roger Cross actually knows how to play that in an interesting and appealing way, unlike MB

Absolutely.

Edited by FurryFury
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10 hours ago, lordonia said:

Do we know exactly why Mikkei/Truffault is willing to help the Raza crew? They were allies last season against Ferrous Corp but there seems to be something else at work.

Mikkei was in hot water because of the incident on Iriden 3 and getting the Raza crew to testify that the device was the result of research by Traugott would have taken some of the heat off them - especially since Shaddick was hell-bent on getting after Traugott.

When Truffault talked to Three it became clear that Mikkei had pulled the strings to get the deal Shaddick had offered to each member of the Raza - but the deal was only for one of them. When Three asked her to give it to all of them he did not get a straight answer. I took that to mean that Mikkei did not have the clout to get them all an out of prison card.

Since Three refused to play along she gave him the plans because she knew about Traugott's kill-orders. The Raza crew alive and on the run is not optimal but for Mikkei it's better than the Raza crew killed and all evidence of Traugott's involvement in the white-hole incident gone. I don't think Truffault acted without Mikkei's blessing but that's up for debate - she's definitely one of the most interesting players. An ally with a knife in her hand to stab you in the back but still an ally.

7 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

No, he actually had one before interacting with the miners - or at least thought he did.  One found it under the pillow of the room he 'picked' as his own, at the start of the series, and then only became very curious about it when he saw the cute miner wearing it, and asked her about it.  It was brought up again in 2.1 that it was most likely his, the one he found back in 1.1, when Six got him another one to replace the old one.

That pendant had belonged to Hrothgar the guy who had left the mining colony to get help. He had told the cute miner that she could recognize the people he would send by that pendant matching hers. That convinced One that they had to help these people.

I took its presence on board of the Raza as proof that Hrothgar had been killed. Pre-mindwipe One had kept it either as proof against whichever crew-member had killed Hrothgar or he had planned to use it to warn the miners about the Raza. When Two and Four decided 'he has to go' they might have talked about One and not Six because they had realized he wasn't willing to go along with their plans.

Either way Six giving the pendant to One  as a reminder of who he really was is poignant because it seems that the pendant was indeed a token of One's good nature.

Edited by MissLucas
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9 hours ago, lordonia said:

Pretty shitty security for such a high tech prison of the future, what with letting visitors eyeball-transmit information to inmates, lack of audio monitoring in the cells and general population, and an entire VR world for more elaborate plotting. I also wonder how a facility was built on a planet with no atmosphere -- maybe robotics, or space suits for the construction workers?

Do we know exactly why Mikkei/Truffault is willing to help the Raza crew? They were allies last season against Ferrous Corp but there seems to be something else at work.

Some things, like the lax security for this given setting and the nonsensical dropping of the weapon by the Android after executing Shaddick, are very convenient. But as it's a TV show meant to be entertaining, we have to give them some slack in our suspension of disbelief. If everything in the prison was perfectly monitored, escape would only be possible with massive inside help (not just one GA agent who isn't even part of the prison staff).

Why Truffault wanted to help them escape is unclear; Mikkei stands to both gain and lose if the truth comes out (they did hire the Raza crew to steal Traugott property), but maybe they hope to use the Raza crew again to get vengeance on Traugott afterwards.

8 hours ago, Black Knight said:

I'm surprised others seemed to think the Android was hesitating to kill Shaddick, because her reaction shot when Shaddick slapped Five was so perfect: Zoie Palmer did a fantastic job of conveying anger, but robotic anger. And the Android was fucking thrilled - again, with a robotic feel to it - when Five gave the "Kill them all" order. It was like, "I thought you'd never ask. Whee!" And out of the "all" Shaddick would have been highest on her list, for slapping Five. I didn't take her pause before shooting Shaddick to be hesitation, just the director's way of underlining that character's death since she was played by Franka Potente while the others were just unknowns. You have to give a name actor like Potente a reaction shot.

Another nice subtle bit was Two's slightly uncertain "Hi" upon seeing Five. I don't know if the show plans to address any of last season's finale other than Six's betrayal in dialogue, and if not, kudos to Melissa O'Neil for doing a nonverbal callback with her reaction to Five. After all, last time she saw Five, Five was convinced she was the traitor and was trying to take her down, so it's natural for Two to feel a bit uncertain around Five right now. Out of everyone on the Raza, Five is probably the one she least expected to think she was the traitor.

I thought evil corporation lady just meant Five when she asked about whether their asset had made it out, since she was so interested in Five earlier. But I guess she could have just assumed Five was included in her minion's talk of the Raza crew escaping, and wanted to know about someone they have working for them. I hope it's not Nyx like someone else wants, though, because the Raza crew badly needs more adult human women. T

I agree that Android killed Shaddick, and the difference with the other victims is that Potente is a known actress.

I suspect that the tension between Five and Two won't be gone overnight; the vote on spacing/not-spacing Five and the assassination plan for Six (which came out late in S1) also has to be followed up on, I think.

Interesting point that the "asset" may be 5 herself. Since she indicated some form of familiarity with 5, maybe she is indeed an asset. But that could make her another suspect to be a synthetic human, along with Nyx (depending on why 5 would be considered as an asset, rather than someone to robb and kill).

6 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

No, he actually had one before interacting with the miners - or at least thought he did.  One found it under the pillow of the room he 'picked' as his own, at the start of the series, and then only became very curious about it when he saw the cute miner wearing it, and asked her about it.  It was brought up again in 2.1 that it was most likely his, the one he found back in 1.1, when Six got him another one to replace the old one.

That pendant was from the miners. The Raza crew took it from the miners who went out to buy weapons to defend the colony; that's why the girl on the surface had an identical one. Traugott was not involved, it was a Ferris Corp (and Mikkei) thing. It was before the memory loss, which is why One didn't realise the significance of it until later.

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1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

That pendant had belonged to Hrothgar the guy who had left the mining colony to get help. He had told the cute miner that she could recognize the people he would send by that pendant matching hers. That convinced One that they had to help these people.

I took its presence on board of the Raza as proof that Hrothgar had been killed. Pre-mindwipe One had kept it either as proof against whichever crew-member had killed Hrothgar or he had planned to use it to warn the miners about the Raza. When Two and Four decided 'he has to go' they might have talked about One and not Six because they had realized he wasn't willing to go along with their plans.

Either way Six giving the pendant to One  as a reminder of who he really was is poignant because it seems that the pendant was indeed a token of One's good nature.

1 hour ago, Wouter said:

That pendant was from the miners. The Raza crew took it from the miners who went out to buy weapons to defend the colony; that's why the girl on the surface had an identical one. Traugott was not involved, it was a Ferris Corp (and Mikkei) thing. It was before the memory loss, which is why One didn't realise the significance of it until later.

Damn, my mistake.  Sorry.  I was confusing Traugot for Hrothgar when I made those earlier posts.  *smacks forehead with open palm*

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Interesting that the Android, with a physical advantages that entails adopted a version of the Marvel Soviet Red Room aka the Black Widow or Dottie of Agent Carter fighting style with the flying head scissors flip

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So glad we had our prison break already, and are heading to the Raza! The prison stuff was good, but I am ready for the crew to get to the ship, and start having adventures. I like the new people, and one of them is a mole, so that adds a decently interesting dynamic to the whole thing. 

It was generally a really well put together episode, with all the plots coming together, and the characters all getting their moments to shine. It took awhile, but I think the actors/characters have really gelled together, and work well off each other. 

I have no idea when this happened, but I have found 3 to be increasingly attractive. Maybe because they have made him more of a likable asshole with a (kinda) heart of gold, instead of just an annoying asshole. 

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On 7/9/2016 at 2:16 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Whoa!  Four's former classmate or whatever she was, was totally Ellen Wong!  I haven't seen her since she was Knives Chau on Scott Pilgrim vs. the World!

thats who she was! I couldn't place her

Quote

Mysterious lady seems to have some kind of connection to five.  And, in typical Canadian-based show fashion, played by another familiar face: Inga Cadranel, who I remember best as Detective Angela on Orphan Black.

Whereas i first knew her as Francesca on Rent-a-Goalie.

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On 7/9/2016 at 7:32 AM, snowwhyte said:

I know it was meant to be a cool moment but Five telling the Android to "kill them all" was not a good idea to me.  The Android was capable of rendering them all unconscious and helping Five escape. Did they really all deserve to die on Five's whim?

I like Five less and less with each passing episode.

I was surprised they escaped the prison so quickly if for no other reason than the set was so elabourate. Heh.

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1 hour ago, DEM said:

I was surprised they escaped the prison so quickly if for no other reason than the set was so elabourate. Heh.

When I first saw that set, I thought, CRAP, they're going to be there for the whole season.  Now I guess that set is or was used by some other production.   I wonder what.  It does kind of look familiar.

I re-watched the episode, and noticed a couple of things.  When Six is waiting for the crew to show up for the escape, he seemed disappointed that Two and Three showed up first.   Then he didn't even want to go with them, but they dragged him along anyway after he got shot.  I can't remember from last season if it was Two and Three who had the conversation about killing a crew member, but that must have meant that they had discovered he was GA.  Back then, I thought it was about discovering that Corso wasn't Corso.

In the scene where they say on a TV monitor what happened to One, I  thought Two showed no more emotion than the Android might.  As far as Jase Corso,

Spoiler

By the episode information, it sounds to me like the Android goes after him in episode five.

 I think Kill Them All happened to put Five on an equal footing with the other original crew members.

Edited by atomationage
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He! In general I love Killjoys a tad more but I have to say DM was coming out all guns blazing for this season. I'm normally rewatching Killjoys but this week DM got the double treatment and I noticed the great score during the escape. I couldn't find any info on the piece - tunefind has just people asking what it is.

I'm also wondering if somewhere down the line the Android's new personality traits could not become problematic. She looked rather pissed when Shaddick hit Five and was throwing mighty shade at Six. Which is both awesome and troublesome.

The only thing I disliked was Misaki's introduction. I've come to terms with the whole pseudo-Japanese thing they have going on with Four's home-world but I'm not fond of new characters getting the hero-walk entry, that has to be earned.

(I'm by no means sure the discussion between Three and Four about removing 'him' was about Six. My money's on One but it'd be hilarious if turned out to be Three.)
 

Edited by MissLucas
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23 hours ago, Black Knight said:

I'm surprised others seemed to think the Android was hesitating to kill Shaddick, because her reaction shot when Shaddick slapped Five was so perfect: Zoie Palmer did a fantastic job of conveying anger, but robotic anger. And the Android was fucking thrilled - again, with a robotic feel to it - when Five gave the "Kill them all" order. It was like, "I thought you'd never ask. Whee!" And out of the "all" Shaddick would have been highest on her list, for slapping Five. I didn't take her pause before shooting Shaddick to be hesitation, just the director's way of underlining that character's death since she was played by Franka Potente while the others were just unknowns. You have to give a name actor like Potente a reaction shot.

I didn't see hesitation at all.  I saw the exact opposite The Android stopping to savor the moment and kill the person who slapped and pulled a gunon Five.  The Androids storyline is a bit typical of an Androids story (what do I do with these emotions of mine?)  but it plays out well on the show.  The Android like Five is shown to be loyal to the crew of the Raza beyond logic.   I am wondering if her inability to connect directly to the Raza will play an important roll in her season 2 story.  What is she now if she can't connect to the ship she was built to connect to?  The Android might be getting her own "Who I am." Storyline and I am all for it.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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My suspicion is that Truffaut was actually working for evil corporation woman.  Clearly ECW was expecting them to escape and given how difficult it would have been without Truffaut's help i do wonder if they could have done it without that information.  It would have been funny if Two had shown up and the eye thing didn't work because she is more than human.

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On 7/6/2016 at 5:24 PM, clanstarling said:

The numbers worked for me, because I could remember the order they came out of stasis.

Same here.  Sometimes I have to think about it, but then it's "Oh yeah, that's the order!"

 

On 7/9/2016 at 7:27 AM, MissLucas said:

More troublesome is probably that the Android wasn't able to establish a neural link. It was one of those 'blink-and-you'll-miss-it' moments the show is actually getting quite good at.

On 7/9/2016 at 3:42 PM, Wouter said:

I noted that the Android didn't manage to get a neural connection with the Raza, which should simply have worked - she could be the 'asset', too. It would be painful for Five if that would be the case.

Someone (Six, I think) stole her mcguffin chip ande she couldn't connect without it.  Soon someone will remember, search his belongings and off they go.

On 7/9/2016 at 7:32 AM, snowwhyte said:

I know it was meant to be a cool moment but Five telling the Android to "kill them all" was not a good idea to me.  The Android was capable of rendering them all unconscious and helping Five escape.

Leaving an enemy behind, even unconcious, is not necessarily a smart thing, especially if one can thwart your plans fairly quickly.  I didn't have a problem with the "kill them all" order, eswpecially since we got the Robot-Smirk from Android.

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16 hours ago, atomationage said:

When I first saw that set, I thought, CRAP, they're going to be there for the whole season.  Now I guess that set is or was used by some other production.   I wonder what. 

 

Spoiler

it was built for the show, we're going to be seeing it a lot in various forms over the season  according to an interview with 3/Chris Lemche

Edited by saoirse
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A reminder - this is to discuss the episode; please do not talk about spoilers for future episodes or storylines or articles that discuss these; take that discussion to the Spoilers topic. At minimum, those do need to be spoiler tagged in here. Thanks.

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Much better episode. I enjoyed that a lot.

I'm ambivalent about what they're doing with Five though. While on the one hand it's interesting that she possibly wiped everyone's memory to cover up that she was an undercover corporate asset I'm not sure that tracks with the flashbacks on S1.

And it's taking the whole "nobody is who they seem" thing a bit far when the memory wipe meant nobody was anything. So the "revelation" that Five was a corporate asset has once lost its punch.

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They believe she wiped them to protect Six but if she was a corporate asset it's possible she wiped everybody's memories deliberately.  I wouldn't be surprised if the end of this season we discovered she wiped everyone's memories - including her own - deliberately.

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