S02.E05: Infiltration

[Maharincess]

6 hours ago, dmc said:

 

Jeremy...women I have know that were victims of domestic abuse have personally told me that their abusers started out another way.  This has always been hard for me to believe.  Not because I thought there were lying, but because it just seems like such a drastic personality shift.  However we are basically getting to see that happened to Jeremy and it's horrifying to watch..

Unfortunately I know from personal experience that it is very true.  The abuser needs to pull you in and make you trust them, all while slowly alienating you from friends and family.  Once they get you to love and trust them the abuse starts.  Then after the abuse, the sweet guy who's so so sorry that you made him but you comes back for the honeymoon period. 

They always start out so loving and charming. 

[RCharter]

2 hours ago, holly4755 said:

I am just someone who sees things differently I guess. why would Darius dismiss Ruby at the candle ceremony? I think to do it and to have it be made permanent and irrevocable and to allow her to leave with a modicum of dignity, it was not her failure, but his, at least that is what he said. (its not you, its me - aside). If he told her ahead of time - she would have argued with him. she would have been caught on TV having an upset scene with him that would have made her look worse. there are cameras all around, I believe he learned that. This way there is a cut and it is over, she can control the exit interview.

The two of them were able to talk without a camera while they sat on the bench, its not inconceivable that he could have found another quiet spot to tell her.  It also need not be a fight, and thats no reason to even try to keep her from humiliated on national TV.

At this point she didn't leave with any dignity.  She is on national TV begging Darius to keep her, right after she slept with him.  She will look like she was used for sex and was found not to be good enough for anything else.

And sadly, her father is right, if Darius had encouraged her to leave with her dad, it might have mitigated some of the damage.  But now, this will be the first thing people see when they google her.  If Darius had kept her in the competition and dropped her later, it might not be such a hot story.  But "girl sleeps with guy she really likes and then he dumps her" opens her up to the worst sort of slut shaming there is out there.  And he didn't have to do it.

And the beautiful thing is that America didn't get to hear the "I can make you better" speech.  All America is going to see is that Ruby slept with a man, got caught by her father, admitted that she loved Darius and he rejected her under the well worn excuse of "its not you....its me."

[RCharter]

18 minutes ago, Maharincess said:

Ruby deserved to be blindsided. She basically told him that he wasn't good enough the way he is but she could make him "better" and more worthy of her.   I'd have blindsided her ass too. 

I don't think so. She just shared with Darius how she didn't want to disappoint her father which is why she didn't even tell him about going on the show.  Because she knew he would disapprove.  He busts in and tells her that he is ashamed of her for being a part of the show because she is so smart and talented and that this football player isn't good enough for her.

She chose Darius over her own father in that situation.  I can see her trying to reconcile the two situations by lying to herself and Darius and trying to convince them both that she can turn him into this man that will make her father proud of her again.  I think it was a kneejerk reaction.  And I get it, she loves Darius, but doesn't want to let her father down and her father just told her that she shamed him.  So, she wants to make Darius into this person her father can respect so she can get back his love and respect.

Having said that, I can understand why Darius might not be down with that -- I get it.  But she had just told him in the bedroom how much her father means to her, so he should have some inkling of an idea that her reaction isn't malicious or cruel.  And that it didn't require him to blindside her on TV.  

[dmc]

9 minutes ago, Maharincess said:

Unfortunately I know from personal experience that it is very true.  The abuser needs to pull you in and make you trust them, all while slowly alienating you from friends and family.  Once they get you to love and trust them the abuse starts.  Then after the abuse, the sweet guy who's so so sorry that you made him but you comes back for the honeymoon period. 

They always start out so loving and charming. 

It is so scary to me that people can be hiding an entirely different personality that you don't see.  It completely makes sense though. 

[Primetimer]

And the few viewers who might have still had any doubts about Jeremy's crappiness watch him literally piss them away.

View the full article

[seacliffsal]

Ruby actually ended up being like others who kept telling Darius how to act, what to do.  No matter what led to it, she told him that SHE could help make him a better man.  That means that she thought he had weaknesses or needed to make changes in order to meet her expectations.  He would never be able to live up to her expectations and would always end up disappointing her.  I think that he really liked her, but realized she was just one more person who wanted to manage him.

[gesundheit]

To be fair (and it pains me to write this), Rachel hit him first (in terms of the hitting).  Prior to that he was being a drunken, desperate dick.  The man-handling was NOT cool, but he didn't hit her (which is something a lawyer would be sure to point out).  He was working on the misinformation that Rachel was behind his demotion.  Still,  no excuse.

Or it could just be that I am super relieved that he didn't sexually assault her. 

I cheered when Chet hit him, and I am so glad he fired Jeremy's Ass.  I feel sorry for the actor (NY article), but them's the breaks.

Coleman is shady, and so is this billionaire.

I really miss season one.

She pushed him off of her when he had her physically pinned against the wall, that was self-defense from her. Then he hauled off and hit her. No excuse, not provoked.

[RCharter]

26 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

Ruby actually ended up being like others who kept telling Darius how to act, what to do.  No matter what led to it, she told him that SHE could help make him a better man.  That means that she thought he had weaknesses or needed to make changes in order to meet her expectations.  He would never be able to live up to her expectations and would always end up disappointing her.  I think that he really liked her, but realized she was just one more person who wanted to manage him.

She told him once...after her father caught them having sex and told her he was ashamed of her.

I do think the circumstances matter, because there was never any other time, even when they were having their private conversation where she gave any indication that he wasn't good enough for her.  So, I think it was simply a knee-jerk reaction from the confrontation with her father.

And even if he felt like she should be let go, he could have done it in a million less harmful/painful ways.  Instead he chose to blindside her on national TV, right after it all went down.  Even if she expected too much from him -- she wasn't mean or nasty about it, she wasn't malicious, she came from a good place and had good intentions, even if they were misplaced.

But blindsiding her on national TV?  That is mean spirited IMO.

And it was all designed to make her look bad....like he dumped her because she slept with him too fast and declared her love.  The same locker room buddies he didn't want to upset by not letting her go for wearing that tee-shirt.  They will not have heard the conversation about how she just wanted him to do more for the community.  Because those locker room buddies would probably give him shit for dumping her for that reason.

He could have kept her for a few more weeks and in that time, he could have found another quiet time to tell her that he didn't think it would work out.  They have had time together without a camera.  That would have spared her the humiliation of being dumped after being caught sleeping with Darius by her father, and the nation.  He could have even let her win, and allowed the relationship to naturally die (how many of these relationships really survive long term)

[BingeyKohan]

8 minutes ago, RCharter said:

She told him once...after her father caught them having sex and told her he was ashamed of her.

I do think the circumstances matter, because there was never any other time, even when they were having their private conversation where she gave any indication that he wasn't good enough for her.  So, I think it was simply a knee-jerk reaction from the confrontation with her father.

And even if he felt like she should be let go, he could have done it in a million less harmful/painful ways.  Instead he chose to blindside her on national TV, right after it all went down.  Even if she expected too much from him -- she wasn't mean or nasty about it, she wasn't malicious, she came from a good place and had good intentions, even if they were misplaced.

But blindsiding her on national TV?  That is mean spirited IMO.

And it was all designed to make her look bad....like he dumped her because she slept with him too fast and declared her love.  The same locker room buddies he didn't want to upset by not letting her go for wearing that tee-shirt.  They will not have heard the conversation about how she just wanted him to do more for the community.  Because those locker room buddies would probably give him shit for dumping her for that reason.

He could have kept her for a few more weeks and in that time, he could have found another quiet time to tell her that he didn't think it would work out.  They have had time together without a camera.  That would have spared her the humiliation of being dumped after being caught sleeping with Darius by her father, and the nation.  He could have even let her win, and allowed the relationship to naturally die (how many of these relationships really survive long term)

You're completely right although I can't help having the feeling the tone deafness about how bad that makes Darius look (to the audience of 'Everlasting') is sloppy writing on the part of the writers (of UnReal) vs. an intentional choice to show that Darius actually does have a personal integrity problem. With luck the terrible optics of what he's doing (again, as experienced by the audience of Everlasting) will be acknowledged and will be what brings Romeo back to provide the counsel he is missing. With no luck we'll just get a throwaway line from Jay observing that Darius might as well have 'bitch-pleased' her when he blew out her candle.

Edited July 5, 2016 by BingeyKohan
additional thought

[RCharter]

1 minute ago, BingeyKohan said:

You're completely right although I can't help having the feeling the tone deafness about how bad that makes Darius look (to the audience of 'Everlasting') is sloppy writing on the part of the writers (of UnReal) vs. an intentional choice to show that Darius actually does have a personal integrity problem. With luck the terrible optics of what he's doing (again, as experienced by the audience of Everlasting) will be acknowledged and will be what brings Romeo back to provide the counsel he is missing.

I hope so.  I want to like Darius, because I want someone to root for on this show (although I'm rooting for Coleman if he is doing the expose with his google glasses)

[BingeyKohan]

5 minutes ago, RCharter said:

(although I'm rooting for Coleman if he is doing the expose with his google glasses)

Ha, yes, speaking of optics!

[ketose]

Thinking about the episode, I'm pretty sure Chet orchestrated Jeremy's actions toward Rachel with that sweat lodge deal. At least given the low bar the show has had this year, I would think the writers wrote it that way.

[calliope1975]

It's interesting to read everyone's interpretations. I thought Darius was genuine in letting Ruby go because he could see the show was bad for her, and while he liked her, I think he knew he wouldn't (and more importantly didn't really want to) live up to her expectations. 

I don't think Chet set Jeremy up to attack Rachel. I think he was trying to help him in his dumb, misguided, MRA way. I think Jeremy's been harboring this rage toward Rachel and to see her move up the ladder and move on from him was infuriating. 

I also thought Quinn knows exactly what Rachel is getting into with Coleman (and it's not true love) which is why she warned her. I do think Quinn cares about Rachel, but I think Quinn cares about herself more. 

[aradia22]

I can see how it might have bothered me if it were another character but because it was Jeremy... God, I loved seeing Coleman put him in his place. Also, it was great because it was such a corporate/bureaucratic kind of move. I'm not going to outright fire you or demote you but I'm going to do something that makes you not want to work here... sorry not sorry. Yes, Coleman, make yourself useful.

I also loved Rachel telling the basketball player about Yael and setting up that scene. It wasn't a big "Rachel produces someone" scene but it made for a scene that would have been reality TV gold. It was a touch Flavor of Love but since it's a Bachelor send up there was no hair pulling or spitting. I loved her eyebrows at Jay.

Oy. Jeremy pissing on the car... Are they trying to make him a joke? Lol, I needed so much more of Jeremy being a whiny prick and Chet slapping him in the face. And then he gets abusive at the end? Note to self: never piss off SGS. I hope the network realizes now what will happen if they force her to take a note she does not want to take. I was so scared we were going to get an unnecessary rape scene. And I'm kind of OK if Chet's redemption arc involves throwing Jeremy out of the truck and saying "that's not what a man does."

I feel like it was supposed to be a big thing but letting Ruby's father and the cameras go in was far from the most dramatic thing on this show. And Ruby was able to stand up for herself.

Coleman better have a game plan. Otherwise it just feels like a plot contrivance that he's still letting Quinn run things.

I'm frustrated now that Coleman is clearly not going to be with Rachel longterm because it means that they'll twist things to make Quinn be right when it face Rachel is right. Quinn is "trying to protect her from the happiness [Quinn] never had." Quinn doesn't push these guys out of the way because they're wrong for Rachel. She pushes them out of the way when Rachel seems happy and/or it seems like she might be about to leave Everlasting.

Ruby and Darius ended up having a great arc. The problem is they had a really short arc. And the only compelling one on the show so far. I'm totally down for her being a surprise comeback later in the season because otherwise, what the hell am I watching for? They still have not done anything with Chantal or Beth Ann (I finally learned her name because the British guy kept saying it).

I really got back into the show this week. Though seeing next week's preview, I can already sense them wanting to fuck it up and squander my goodwill.

[Koala]

I realize I may be the odd one out but ... I love Quinn -- as manipulative, twisted, evil, and selfish as she may be. Whether you love her or hate her, she is the true creator of Everlasting -- "a legend [amongst legends]" as John Booth stated. I adored the moment when she stepped in and stole the spotlight from Coleman and Rachel at the gala, during the very moment they were essentially trying to sell themselves as "pioneers" within the very show they did not create. Duplicates are never as good as the original, and for that reason I will always be on Quinn's side (no matter how much I may dislike her during various moments).

Edited July 5, 2016 by Koala
Typo

[aradia22]

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So tired of Jay. So everything that went wrong with Ruby and Darious was Rachel's fault? Like he wasn't the one who also fell into Quinn's manipulative trap with the cameras? He's way too invested (just like them all).

I don't mind it. I liked what they were doing with Jay and Quinn this episode as far as the people selling the fantasy falling for the fairytale themselves.

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And other random black girl who's never had a line or a name?

For real though.

Side note. I'm reading this thread while also looking at some Broadway stuff and I got curious about something... Denee Benton who plays Ruby is going to lead Natasha, Pierre and the Great Comet of 1812 on Broadway. Good for her!

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Jeremy...women I have know that were victims of domestic abuse have personally told me that their abusers started out another way.  This has always been hard for me to believe.  Not because I thought there were lying, but because it just seems like such a drastic personality shift.  However we are basically getting to see that happened to Jeremy and it's horrifying to watch.

That's something I'll say for their portrayal of Jeremy. This has always been a part of his character but earlier on in season 1 there were ways to look past it, especially with Rachel's self-loathing wallowing in his toxicity and verbal abuse. And he would come back around and be sweet, as long as she was doing what he wanted and pretending she was going to leave the show.

Quote

I didn't know quite how to unpack Darius' indignant declaration that he made 40 million a year, by way of defending his own honor.

My sense of that was that Ruby's father was a doctor and she was going to be one too (maybe?) or at least some kind of activist/academic so he was trying to say he wasn't just a football player with nothing to show for himself. Say what you will about how we pay people for doing certain jobs but, he's not no one. He may not have an advanced degree but he can support himself. It's not a great argument but it made sense as something you'd say in the middle of a chaotic scene.

Oh, now that I'm remembering about Darius' spine, how long is the epidural supposed to last in the world of the show? Do they keep calling in Coleman's doctor friend? How was Darius not fine for jumping on the bed but totally fine for sexing up Ruby?

I know it's a word but I'm enjoying that Darius is a football player and everyone keeps talking about how he "blindsided" Ruby. I'm in a loopy mood.

[aradia22]

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Can we have women being at odds with each other, without men coming between them too? Or even better, maybe let's not have them be openly at odds with each other and actually have them work with each other despite thei personal conflicts. Now that would be refreshing!

That's why I liked the idea of the Quinn/Rachel mentor relationship in season 1 and them working as a team... to manipulate other women and play into stereotypes. You had the complexity of this female friendship and these competent, professional women being used in service of making other women look bad/selling a harmful fantasy to the imagined female audience.

[xqueenfrostine]

I really liked this episode.  Probably the best of the season so far for me.  That scene between Ruby and her dad was devastating, as was Rachel's decision to continue filming their confrontation.  And I was heartbroken for Jay.  I loved how genuinely invested he was in getting Ruby a chance to win, though I was disappointed that he let Quinn manipulate him into spying and filming her overnight stay.  Even though he was partly to blame for everything that happened, I felt almost as sad for him after Ruby was cut as I did for Ruby herself.   He does need to quit blaming Rachel though.  It was Darius's call to cut Ruby, and he knows Rachel had nothing to do with bringing her dad to set because she was the one who warned him that Quinn was planning something.  

Darius and Ruby's overnight stay was adorably sweet (until her dad showed up obviously).  I was so rooting for these two.  If this really is the last we see of these two I'm going to be so sad.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there's a twist in the finale that brings her back.  

The Chet of this week feels like a totally different animal from the one we met at the beginning of the season, and I cannot figure out what changed. He seems more like the Chet from last season who ended up giving Quinn a 40% stake in Everlasting against the advisement of his attorney because he knew she deserved it.  I would have assumed that his night in jail might have made him more reflective, but the change in his attitude toward Quinn started before his arrest.   I was really surprised to see him to take responsibility, at least verbally, for his actions.  And it was great to see him smack Jeremy when he tried to make excuses for himself.  That obviously doesn't mean he's reformed now, but this is a show where everyone involved is some level of shitty.  Chet is no exception in that regard, but I'll happily take it if we can just get Chet to go back to the less douchetastic version of himself that we had last season.

Jeremy's a psycho. I'm seriously worried for Rachel right now.  Somehow I don't think this is the last we've seen of him even though he was fired by Chet.  I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that shot up picture of Rachel ends up being a bit of foreshadowing and he shows up on set with a gun.  

9 hours ago, MostlyC said:

To be fair (and it pains me to write this), Rachel hit him first (in terms of the hitting).  Prior to that he was being a drunken, desperate dick.  The man-handling was NOT cool, but he didn't hit her (which is something a lawyer would be sure to point out).  He was working on the misinformation that Rachel was behind his demotion.  Still,  no excuse.

Dude really?  What Jeremy did before Rachel hit him wasn't just being "a drunken, desperate dick" or just manhandling.  That was assault.  By the time she hit him, he had grabbed her by the shoulders when she tried to get away from him, pushed her up against the shelving inside of the trailer, grabbed her wrist when she tried to push him off of her, and grabbed her face.  When she hit him, he was physically restraining her so she couldn't away.   When you go through self defense classes, they don't tell you to wait to hit a guy who has his hands on you and may be on his way to raping you until he's hit you first.  They teach you the best places to hit your attacker that might stun them enough to allow you the chance to run away.   I doubt there's a judge in the US that wouldn't scoff at the protest that "she hit me first" in this situation.  Particularly not when the person in question was drunk at work at the time of the assault, AND when the assault was witnessed by their boss.  

And it does not matter that Jeremy thought Rachel was behind him being demoted, because even if she had been, this would still be assault.  The law doesn't let you have a free shot at your boss when they fire or demote you.  

Edited July 6, 2016 by xqueenfrostine

[xqueenfrostine]

1 hour ago, aradia22 said:

How was Darius not fine for jumping on the bed but totally fine for sexing up Ruby?

Well she was on top.  JFK, who also had serious back problems, is rumored to have favored this sexual position because it put a lot less strain on him.  As for how long an epidural done for pain management lasts, it varies by a lot.  From what I understand it can last for as short as a week or as long as a year.  I think 1-2 months is about average though, so Darius may not need another before filming wraps.

Edited July 6, 2016 by xqueenfrostine

[candall]

1 hour ago, nosleepforme said:

I liked this episode better than the last two, though I think this season is in need of a focal point. It's trying to accomplish too many different things at once and feels chaotic.

Agree, there are so many issues littering the field, they're all getting short shrift, but THEN I remember worrying that this season's focal point might be Rachel's horrible mother trying to have her committed.  I'm so relieved to skip that soapy standard, I feel more tolerant of the socio-political scattershot.

[shantown]

8 hours ago, nara said:

In fact, I think that  Chet, Rachel, and Quinn are really like family--beneath the fighting, there is love. 

I would like to see this explored more - not romantically like they've previously done with Chet/Quinn, but as the three of them having a better understanding of each other than anyone else has of them. 

[FrancesL]

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I do think the circumstances matter, because there was never any other time, even when they were having their private conversation where she gave any indication that he wasn't good enough for her.  So, I think it was simply a knee-jerk reaction from the confrontation with her father.

I agree 100%.  Of all the females, Ruby has been the biggest surprise (in a good way) . Also, despite her very strong opinions, I've never seen her treat Darius like he wasn't good enough for her. She even made that comment in the last episode about being in the unfamiliar territory of worrying about what others thought about her, particularly Darius. Darius might feel insecure about not being the kind of person he wants her to be but I think that Ruby was just as insecure about not being  the kind of person Darius would go for, which is also why I wish he had pulled her aside instead of rejecting her on national TV. After his injury, she was also the only person to perceive that something was wrong and went to find him to make sure that he is OK. I really hope that in the end they find a way to bring her back, because she seems to be the right person for him. I'd much rather see more of the those two than all the ridiculous Quinn/Rachel/Jeremy drama. 

[earlbny]

They bit off more then they could chew. They should have picked one story to tackle. Season 1 went to there heads and now they think they can change the world. Too much going on and not a lot of time to tell each story. If this season had more episodes then maybe it work better. 

[xqueenfrostine]

I think this season has suffered from going to more of an ensemble style show instead of the single protagonist driven show that we had last season.  Season 1 had very few side plots where Rachel wasn't somehow intrinsically involved.  I think the Quinn-Chet arc was the only real one that was completely disconnected from her.  Even Shia's plot with Mary was largely driven by how threatened Shia felt over Rachel's success.  The switch in focus has left the show without a central theme to hold everything together.

[HunterHunted]

8 hours ago, Maharincess said:

Ruby deserved to be blindsided. She basically told him that he wasn't good enough the way he is but she could make him "better" and more worthy of her.   I'd have blindsided her ass too. 

I get it. To me Ruby's argument was that when it doesn't matter, when they're alone Darius shows such depth. But when they're on camera all of that goes out the window. It read more like trying to drag Darius out of the activism closet than trying to change him. I wish Darius had been able to express all of the reasons that his professional persona is different from his personal persona. Ruby might feel like there is a lot of cognitive dissonance in his stance, but Darius might reasonably be able to argue that when he's hired by XYZ soda they don't care about his background, his likes and dislikes, his friends or hobbies. XYZ soda only cares about the truncated image he projects. And the money he earns might do more good for those causes he cares for than his direct activism. It would have been a pretty interesting conversation, but I don't really have faith that the show could pull it off.

[LotusFlower]

3 hours ago, FrancesL said:

Of all the females, Ruby has been the biggest surprise (in a good way) . Also, despite her very strong opinions, I've never seen her treat Darius like he wasn't good enough for her. 

She outright told him he wasn't good enough for her.  She told him that he was "more than a football player," and that she could teach him to be 'everything that (her) father told him he wasn't."  Ouch.  To me, that's pretty patronizing.  

[Fable]

Instead of UnReal, I now dub this UnBelievable.  Last season it felt like we were getting a taste of what really goes on in reality TV, but this season, things seem too over the top, and I can’t buy most of what they are selling.  I’m sure there are a lot of shenanigans that go on behinds the scenes in The Bachelor or other shows of the same ilk, but now it seems like they are really pushing the envelope.  Come on, really?!!!... trying to paralyze your suitor or filming people having sex and bringing in the father to come see it….ridiculous!   Add to that, unlike last season, I barely know who the contestants are and really don’t care about them.  This season seems like it is all about the show runners and the problems they create for themselves, and frankly, I am finding it boring. 

Edited July 6, 2016 by Fable

[RCharter]

3 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

She outright told him he wasn't good enough for her.  She told him that he was "more than a football player," and that she could teach him to be 'everything that (her) father told him he wasn't."  Ouch.  To me, that's pretty patronizing.  

I don't remember her outright saying that he wasn't good enough for her.

And I think its a MV thing because I didn't read the other two statements as her outright saying that Darius wasn't good enough for her either.

I think that there is a perception of football players and maybe all professional sports players as being dimwitted lunkheads.  And I certainly think thats how it would have been sold in Ruby's family.  But she sees Darius as more than just some stereotypical football player, and I think Darius is probably more than his job.  He is more than that guy that called a reporter a bitch.  And Ruby sees that.  Whereas someone like the Beth-Anne only sees Darius as his job.  

The "I can teach you to be everything my dad says you're not" I took as the kneejerk reaction to the situation with her father.  I don't think any girl/woman wants to shame her father if they have a close relationship with them.  And he is clearly important to Ruby.  She loves Darius and she wants her father to love him as much as she does.  I think that may be misplaced, but I think its natural.  

And even if she was being patronizing, I don't think she was doing it was malice or ill will towards Darius.  But I think blindsiding her (I keep trying to think up another word @aradia22, but "blindside" works so well!) on national TV, after all that went down with her father, after she slept with you on national TV, as she is begging you not to let her go....is just mean.

Edited July 6, 2016 by RCharter

[LotusFlower]

28 minutes ago, RCharter said:

I don't remember her outright saying that he wasn't good enough for her.

And I think its a MV thing because I didn't read the other two statements as her outright saying that Darius wasn't good enough for her either.

I think that there is a perception of football players and maybe all professional sports players as being dimwitted lunkheads.  And I certainly think thats how it would have been sold in Ruby's family.  But she sees Darius as more than just some stereotypical football player, and I think Darius is probably more than his job.  He is more than that guy that called a reporter a bitch.  And Ruby sees that.  Whereas someone like the Beth-Anne only sees Darius as his job.  

The "I can teach you to be everything my dad says you're not" I took as the kneejerk reaction to the situation with her father.  I don't think any girl/woman wants to shame her father if they have a close relationship with them.  And he is clearly important to Ruby.  She loves Darius and she wants her father to love him as much as she does.  I think that may be misplaced, but I think its natural.  

And even if she was being patronizing, I don't think she was doing it was malice or ill will towards Darius.  But I think blindsiding her (I keep trying to think up another word @aradia22, but "blindside" works so well!) on national TV, after all that went down with her father, after she slept with you on national TV, as she is begging you not to let her go....is just mean.

This is only looking at it from her perspective.  From his perspective, he's a successful and seemingly happy man (who makes $40 million a year, as he made sure to point out), yet a woman who's vying for his love and attention on a reality dating show is telling him she can "teach" him to be "more than a football player."  It doesn't seem to occur to Ruby that he just might like who he is, and doesn't want to change.  She went on to the show with a motive, but then she fell for the guy and wanted to change him.  That's not how it works.  On the show, or in real life.  Again, he is who he is, and likes who he is.  

I also don't understand this notion that it was "mean" for Darius to blindside her with the elimination.  Of course the whole thing with her father was horrible and embarrassing, but it's a reality show....it's par for the course.  Did she expect to be treated differently than everyone else?  If so, that wasn't very smart.

[RCharter]

12 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

This is only looking at it from her perspective.  From his perspective, he's a successful and seemingly happy man (who makes $40 million a year, as he made sure to point out), yet a woman who's vying for his love and attention on a reality dating show is telling him she can "teach" him to be "more than a football player."  It doesn't seem to occur to Ruby that he just might like who he is, and doesn't want to change.  She went on to the show with a motive, but then she fell for the guy and wanted to change him.  That's not how it works.  On the show, or in real life.  Again, he is who he is, and likes who he is.  

I also don't understand this notion that it was "mean" for Darius to blindside her with the elimination.  Of course the whole thing with her father was horrible and embarrassing, but it's a reality show....it's par for the course.  Did she expect to be treated differently than everyone else?  If so, that wasn't very smart.

But, is he happy?  I don't know.  I don't even know that he particularly is happy with who he is, but I don't think it has anything to do with who she would want him to be or who she would hope he becomes.  He seems to be at a crossroads, he wants to do things for himself, he wants to experience new things, he doesn't want people managing him and telling him what to do.

Does that mean he suddenly wants to or should be expected to become an activist?  Absolutely not.

But then again, given that Ruby has never particularly seemed to give any other indication that she thought he wasn't good enough for her -- I have to think that it was a reaction to the confrontation with her dad.  And I think if things had progressed naturally, and she took him home to her parents and ended up being with him, she would have to ultimately resolve to live in a world where her dad doesn't think her husband is good enough for her....which is a situation that happens all the time.  The world is rife with fathers who think that no man is good enough for their princess, and I think its wonderful that so many men have raised daughters that they think are so amazing.  I think she would live a life where her father would throw some light shade Darius's way, and wouldn't like him, and Ruby would have to find a way to deal with it.  I don't think her father would have had nearly the blowup he did had things gone differently....and so I think it would have all gone down differently.

Yeah, I think she did and should have expected to be treated differently.  They had formed a real bond, so with or without the show, Darius should have treated her differently.  Darius should have been man enough to treat her differently.  He hadn't formed the same bond with the basketball player, or with Yael.  And clearly, having sex meant more to Ruby than it meant to Yael.  And there is nothing wrong with that, but to Yael, sex was about getting those keys, because she has some sort of agenda.  For Ruby it was about letting herself be vulnerable for a man she was falling in love with.  So yeah, he should have treated her different because the situation was different.

[LotusFlower]

25 minutes ago, RCharter said:

But, is he happy?  I don't know.  I don't even know that he particularly is happy with who he is, but I don't think it has anything to do with who she would want him to be or who she would hope he becomes.  He seems to be at a crossroads, he wants to do things for himself, he wants to experience new things, he doesn't want people managing him and telling him what to do.

I agree he doesn't want people telling him what to do.  And that includes a potential girlfriend or wife, who wanted to "teach" him to be someone other than who he is.  He said all of this in the candle ceremony, telling her that whoever she thinks he could be, she should "go be with that guy," (it's not him), and even better - he doesn't feel he's "enough" for her (or her dad), and he "doesn't like how that feels."  I don't think there was any ambiguity in that scene at all.  I think he had true feelings for her, but the dad showing up, and worse, what she said to him afterwards about wanting him to be different ruined her chance.

[RCharter]

21 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

I agree he doesn't want people telling him what to do.  And that includes a potential girlfriend or wife, who wanted to "teach" him to be someone other than who he is.  He said all of this in the candle ceremony, telling her that whoever she thinks he could be, she should "go be with that guy," (it's not him), and even better - he doesn't feel he's "enough" for her (or her dad), and he "doesn't like how that feels."  I don't think there was any ambiguity in that scene at all.  I think he had true feelings for her, but the dad showing up, and worse, what she said to him afterwards about wanting him to be different ruined her chance.

And if he felt that way, all he had to do was tell her 5 minutes before the candle ceremony.  They found a way to be alone on the bench before the elimination ceremony, and so he could have found another way for them to be alone so he could take 5 minutes to give her a heads up.

He didn't need to blindside her with it on national TV.

What she said may have been misguided, but it certainly wasn't malicious or mean and it was said with a good heart.  Him blindsiding her on national TV was malicious and mean spirited when he could have simply told her in private.  Or even encouraged her to go home with her dad.  Or he could have told her and let her dump him on national TV (because wouldn't that be different, a woman rejecting a big time football player after sleeping with him?).  Or, since he knows he is only doing this show to rehab his image he could have kept her around for a few more weeks and picked a quiet moment to tell her how he felt.

He could have done any of that and it would have been less mean spirited than what he did.

There was no ambiguity, he rejected her in the cruelest possible way because his feelings were hurt.  Hurt over something that she did without the slightest ill will.

As for ruining her chance -- in the long run she will be much better off.  Unfortunately, this will stay with her forever, but that doesn't mean that as woman as smart as she is won't mature, grow and go on to do amazing things.  Darius on the other hand...will probably end up paralyzed.  She may have dodged a bullet, but it doesn't forgive his shitty treatment of her.

And truly -- if Darius is trying to rehab some misogynist image that he has dumping a girl who just slept with him with the "its not you, its me" excuse may make him look like "the man," but for a good segment of the population I think it makes him look like an asshole.  However, women are often equally open to slut shaming other women, so I don't think that would particularly help Ruby in any way.

Edited July 6, 2016 by RCharter

[LotusFlower]

23 minutes ago, RCharter said:

What she said may have been misguided, but it certainly wasn't malicious or mean and it was said with a good heart. 
 

No, what she said wasn't malicious, but it showed him she wasn't right for him.  So he eliminated her, which is what he's supposed to do on a dating competition show.  And what she signed up for.  The whole "but it was mean" is an entirely different argument. 

40 minutes ago, RCharter said:

And truly -- if Darius is trying to rehab some misogynist image that he has dumping a girl who just slept with him with the "its not you, its me" excuse may make him look like "the man," but for a good segment of the population I think it makes him look like an asshole.

I thought he did so in a pretty honest and respectful way, and I disagree that he used the "it's not you, it's me" excuse - he kinda said "it's both of us," as in she needs to be with a guy who meets her ideals, and he needs to be with someone who likes him for who he is and doesn't make him feel like he isn't enough.

[RCharter]

Just now, LotusFlower said:

No, what she said wasn't malicious, but it showed him she wasn't right for him.  So he eliminated her, which is what he's supposed to do on a dating competition show.  And what she signed up for.  The whole "but it was mean" is an entirely different argument. 

I thought he did so in a pretty honest and respectful way, and I disagree that he used the "it's not you, it's me" excuse - he kinda said "it's both of us," as in she needs to be with a guy who meets her ideals, and he needs to be with someone who likes him for who he is and doesn't make him feel like he isn't enough.

Yes, and even by the argument of "eliminating her" because its what the show expects, he could have done so in at least 5 other ways that would have been less cruel and would still have been "by the rules."  The rules which...he seems to follow when and if he feels like it.  He was only supposed to eliminate one girl by the rules and yet he chose to cruelly eliminate a second when he didn't have to.

So, he wasn't even following the rules of the show, but rather was doing his own thing.....which was to eliminate Ruby in the cruelest way possible.

But yeah, I think she signed up for the show, but doesn't mean that Darius couldn't be a decent human being in how he eliminated her.  The show clearly doesn't force Darius to do things which is why he goes "off script" or whatever....whenever he wants.  So Darius could have been decent, he didn't have to be, but he could have been.  And the fact that he chose to be cruel to someone who was not cruel to him....makes him an asshole.  The show may not have owed her any better treatment but Darius did.  

The same conversation Darius had with her on national TV when he was blindsiding her, is the exact same conversation he could have had with her in private.  Its shitty that he didn't....and to me, you aren't forgiven for acting shitty just because cameras are following you around.

I think he very much used the "its not you...its me" excuse the "I'm not good enough for you....therefore, its not you, its me."  Right after she opened herself up to him, and made herself vulnerable, and shared a part of herself.  After she had that confrontation with her father.  After she publicly chose him over her father.  After all that, he could have been decent to her, even if he felt like it wouldn't work out.  But he chose to be an asshole.

So -- for the purposes of national TV, its gonna look like she had sex with him, admitted she loved him, chose him over her father and he dumped her because her got what he wanted, after she begged and pleaded with him.  She will be slut shamed, and I don't think that sort of thing is going to necessarily make him look like a winner either.

[BingeyKohan]

On a more superficial note - I like that they're keeping the tradition of Rachel in her high-top Vans. I noticed her wearing them with her gown in the wardrobe truck when Jeremy approached her. But surely she didn't wear them to the awards. Did anyone notice?

[LotusFlower]

You're just stuck on how he eliminated her, as opposed to why.  She had just told him he wasn't the right guy for her in his present form...if only he could change...He likes who he is, and with a house full of women who seem to like him back and are vying to be his girlfriend, he should pick someone who he's more compatible with.  Good call.

[formerlyfreedom]

It's getting circular in here. Please move on.

[Wings]

My favorite moment-

Jeremy and Chet by the fire.  Chet pushes Jeremy to tell the truth resulting in Jeremy saying, "I love her."  With perfect comedic timing and expression Chet says "clarity."   It was a cute light moment.

Still, I watch and enjoy this fumbling effort and await season 3.  

[romantic idiot]

For the first time I was bored. And it's because Rachel is lost.

Re: Ruby - she's been judging Darius from the beginning. Her introduction to him was her telling him off, and even in this episode you can see her making eyes at him, and D constantly apologising to her for something the show cooked up, not him. That's their whole dynamic - her being the superior black woman - and D finally realised that that's not something he wanted long term. In terms of breaking the news, if we didn't protest Faith getting blindsided last year, I don't see why Ruby should get special treatment. 

[topanga]

On 7/5/2016 at 0:43 AM, BingeyKohan said:

My only complaint (and it's no small one) is that by eliminating Ruby the show is totally punting when it comes to taking on race. Making her a prominent BLM activist then doing nothing with it makes the show suffer badly in comparison to this season of Orange is the New Black which tapped into the outrage so meaningfully, I thought. It can still potentially deliver on doing something timely and resonant linking Beth Ann in some way to the mindset of some of Trump's worst followers, the difference of course being we've spent maybe 10 minutes of total screen time with Beth Ann so nothing they can do will really cut very deep.

I don't watch OITNB, so I have no basis for comparison. I do agree that the show touches on racial and class issues but only deals with them briefly and haphazardly. But that's indicative of much of this season--topics are mentioned briefly and haphazardly, but they get dropped just as quickly. E.g., the issue of a black athlete's need to "give back" to his community and be politically active, all while helping financially needy relatives--this is an important issue for athletes of color, and it's something that white athletes hardly ever have to deal with. I'm glad the show addressed the topic, but the mention occurred in the midst of Quinn filming the the overnight date (and Jay allowing it)., Ruby's dad seeing her have sex, Ruby declaring her love for Darius, Darius eliminating Ruby, and Jeremy almost raping Rachel. So much so fast.

Other interesting topics plot points that were dropped: 

• Doesn't Confederate Flag girl have a black roommate? How's that working out?
• Darius' back still hurts--he couldn't jump on the bed--but he can have acrobatic sex with Ruby?
• And Hot Rachel is in every episode, but I know absolutely nothing about her except that she slept with Jeremy. Why don't I know anything about her?
• Chantal's injuries have healed without no scarring, apparently. Will anyone ever mention her injuries again?

ETA: As others have said, Ruby was on top. Still, Darius would have had to do some gyrating, which would involve back movement. 

 

On 7/5/2016 at 1:50 AM, AlliMo said:

I don't find it remotely unbelievable that the billionaire Brit (Welshman) would be into the gross drama. People with that kind of money have a tendency to live on a moral plane all their own. When you get to a certain level of wealth, it's all too easy to stop seeing people as people.

Last season's suitor gave occasional pushback, but for the most part he was easily manipulated. I like that Darius continues to keep them on their toes. I find him so much more interesting than drippy, spineless Adam.

I'm going to disagree about Darius. While I love that Rachel pushed for a black suitor, I find Darius' personality quite boring compared to Adam's. While I do enjoy the issues raised by having a black, previously poor suitor (see above), Adam was funny, charming, and his feelings for Rachel seemed sincere. I miss him.

And in regards to the billionaire, I agree that a person who becomes a billionaire usually has manipulated, deceived, and stepped over people along the way (sorry, Oprah). People who are born rich might have a different path, but most newly-rich people rarely put their fellow man above their own interests. 

 

23 hours ago, nara said:

I really enjoyed this episode, though I'll agree there are parts that are absurd.

• I think Quinn genuinely cares about Rachel and was sincere in warning her to watch out for Coleman.    She's upset with Rachel for betraying her, and she's retaliating, but I believe there is real affection there.  In fact, I think that  Chet, Rachel, and Quinn are really like family--beneath the fighting, there is love.  I think Quinn's assessment that Rachel is afraid to stand on her own is right on. Rachel CAN dance circles around Coleman, and he's keeping her in her place by building his influence over her. The problem is that Quinn delivers life lessons and mentoring advice in really brutal packages.  If she would learn to couch her points in more tactful words, I think she would be more effective.  Interestingly, Ruby is the same way.  She could have made her point to Darius about being a better person in a more tactful way.  Instead, she said something that made him feel inadequate.  

That's the one aspect of Quinn's personality that still endears me to her. Yes, she hates Rachel in many ways, but she still cares about her and wants to protect her. She didn't have to stop her rant to warn Rachel about Coleman. In fact, most of us on this board are suspicious of Coleman's motives. But Rachel isn't, and Quinn realizes that. She exposed her own failures and vulnerabilities to try to help Rachel: "He's your Chet...Just be careful." Yes, she is very abrasive, so her good intentions are sometimes lost in her yelling, but when it comes to Rachel, her concern feels very genuine.

And no, Rachel isn't ready to run the show yet. She is too fragile and naive, as Quinn implied. But Quinn needs to develop better interpersonal skills if she wants to people to actually listen to her. Screaming insults at people doesn't mean you'll be heard. 

Edited July 6, 2016 by topanga

[xqueenfrostine]

3 hours ago, topanga said:

 

• Darius' back still hurts--he couldn't jump on the bed--but he can have acrobatic sex with Ruby?
• Chantal's injuries have healed without no scarring, apparently. Will anyone ever mention her injuries again?

ETA: As others have said, Ruby was on top. Still, Darius would have had to do some gyrating, which would involve back movement. 

 

I'm going to disagree about Darius. While I love that Rachel pushed for a black suitor, I find Darius' personality quite boring compared to Adam's. While I do enjoy the issues raised by having a black, previously poor suitor (see above), Adam was funny, charming, and his feelings for Rachel seemed sincere. I miss him.

I think Darius declined to jump on the bed because he was worried about injuring himself, not because of back pain.  His epidural should have taken care of the pain, but Darius's previous doctor had warned that an epidural could numb his back to the point that he might not realize how much strain he was putting on his injury until he had done more serious damage to his back.  No matter how acrobatic the sex with Ruby was (and to me, it didn't look so ambitious on Darius's end), there was much less risk there of Darius being knocked off the bed or even just knocked down by Ruby than if he had been bed jumping.  

As for Chantal, I don't think there was ever any chance of scarring since we never saw her bleed.  She did have a bandage wrapped around her head when Darius went to see her in the clinic, but Quinn implied at the time that the bandages might have only been there for dramatic purposes to make Chantal's injuries look more dire on camera.  But in actuality, I'm betting Chantal just had a concussion, plus maybe some bruises and scrapes from where she hit the ground.  Which means she could have been completely fine are a weekend's rest.  Concussions can cause neurological problems that go on for weeks, but they can also be completely asymptomatic.  I had a bad fall on par with Chantal's in high school (I fell down a tall set of concrete stairs, doing head-first somersaults all the way down), and only experienced blurred vision, headaches and dizziness for the first 12 hours after my fall.  Except for some all over soreness and bruising, I was good as new by the next morning.  Embarrassment was easily the worst part of my ordeal.  So I don't think it's a huge deal that we haven't been updated on Chantal's condition.  Her fall was likely only important because of what it allowed Rachel and Quinn to do to Brandi.

On the topic of how interesting Darius is or isn't compared to Adam, I think he largely suffers from the fact that most of his interactions are with the contestants and not with the production team.  Adam wasn't particularly interesting when he was interacting with the contestants either with maybe the exception of Faith.  Darius needs a full-fledged character to interact with in order to properly explore his depth, and he hasn't gotten a lot of that so far.

Edited July 6, 2016 by xqueenfrostine
Said Chantal, meant Brandi!

[TiffanyNichelle]

I think if anyone on the crew (besides Rachel producing him) actually had time with Darius it would. Maybe instead of Jay only focusing on Ruby, he should have also worked on Darius. Maybe watch Madison stumble around with Darius. Or Chet try schmooze him again.

[AllyB]

21 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

 I do also think that Jeremy's development is a believable. A mixture of hurt ego, professional disappointments and alcohol brings him to attack the woman he supposedly loved. And the way he responded to Rachel's relationship with Adam by humiliating her in front of all their co-workers made pretty clear that he had the abusive shtick in him even before he laid a hand on her.

From very early on I had serious reservations about Jeremy. There was a scene at about this point last year, I think after Rachel decided to not out Faith on the show, that Jeremy and Rachel nearly had sex after he got her to tell him she only came back to the show for him. They were all hot and heavy when Jeremy suddenly stopped, pulled away and told her couldn't because 'I know how things go with you.' It was such an awful moment, he led her on, dropped her and blamed her for his actions to make her feel maximum shittiness. It just seemed like such a completely gaslighting moment to me. It's frankly a relief to see his arc go as it has, because his behaviour from early on showed a manipulative, abusive streak that occasionally gets written as 'nice guy' romantic on tv/film. 

[xqueenfrostine]

3 hours ago, AllyB said:

From very early on I had serious reservations about Jeremy. There was a scene at about this point last year, I think after Rachel decided to not out Faith on the show, that Jeremy and Rachel nearly had sex after he got her to tell him she only came back to the show for him. They were all hot and heavy when Jeremy suddenly stopped, pulled away and told her couldn't because 'I know how things go with you.' It was such an awful moment, he led her on, dropped her and blamed her for his actions to make her feel maximum shittiness. It just seemed like such a completely gaslighting moment to me. It's frankly a relief to see his arc go as it has, because his behaviour from early on showed a manipulative, abusive streak that occasionally gets written as 'nice guy' romantic on tv/film. 

I completely agree.  Honestly I got a bad vibe from him from the very beginning over the attitude he took with Rachel over her disappearance.  I don't know about anyone else, but if I had a friend/loved one that had a very large and very public breakdown before she fell off the face of the earth I'd be a lot more worried/concerned about their welfare than I'd be pissed at them for disappearing.  I'm not saying Jeremy had no right to feel hurt or annoyed that Rachel never returned his calls, but it still seemed like a pretty self-involved response to someone else's obvious trauma.    That alone obviously didn't make me think that Jeremy would end up being abusive, but it definitely made me more inclined to think he was a dick than a nice guy worthy of being on the pedestal Rachel had him on for most of last season.  

[hatchetgirl]

On 7/5/2016 at 7:49 AM, candall said:

I can't worry about being funny because if I lose focus, Darius' spine is going to snap in half.  It's very distracting--Don't slump back like that!  Sit up straight!  Spine!

Exactly!  I just know it will not end well with Darius.  

[jhlipton]

On 7/4/2016 at 10:00 PM, Court said:

I don't even know what Quinn's role is anymore?

She's the new head of photography, since she can apparently have 4 cameras installed without anyone noticing.

On 7/4/2016 at 11:07 PM, Ariah said:

Rachel is in her "princess" state - she's hungry for some love. And a little power. Never forget power.

And dick.  And money.

 

19 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

She outright told him he wasn't good enough for her.  She told him that he was "more than a football player," and that she could teach him to be 'everything that (her) father told him he wasn't."  Ouch.  To me, that's pretty patronizing.  

That was right after he asked her if she would like him if he wasn't (just) a football player (ie, if his injuries forced him to quit).  She encouraged him, saying that he was "more than a football player", he was a person with potential to be whatever he wanted to be.  The two statements you quoted weren't linked; they occured during separate conversations.

[Marsupial]

I enjoyed this episode, it felt like a return to the fun of Season 1. There were a lot of twists and it was gripping to watch. I didn't rewatch the other episodes but am definitely going to watch this one again. It had some great moments and I could not tear myself away from the scene with Ruby and her father.

Since I detest Coleman and Rachel both, and am on the Quinn Fan bench with Koala, I cheered at the party when Quinn completely owned those two pretentious, self-important little trolls. It was a thing of beauty.

And of course, Quinn continues to be absolutely right about Rachel in every respect. She knew Rachel would give in and sell her soul for the sake of great television when it was crunch time. She knew it and she was right. You could see the shocked look on Coleman's face when Rachel muttered to the cameraman to get in there.

Quinn is also right about Coleman, it's obvious that he's a user who is already tired of Rachel. I think he was planning to use her as his entrée with the TV bigwigs at that party, and when he realized that she's essentially a nobody to those people, and not the ticket to his success that me might have thought, he is ready to dump her. It's clear from their interaction in that last scene, and I think deep down Rachel probably knows it, too.

Here's another thing Quinn knows: that "perfect life" that Rachel mocks her for not having, is a life that neither Rachel or Quinn wants. Quinn is much more self-aware than self-deluding Rachel, and she knows Rachel better than she (Rachel) knows herself. She is also a lot more honest.

I agree with the poster above who said that this crew is like a big, dysfunctional family that fights all the time but has real love at its core. All in all, a really good episode and I am hopeful about the rest of the season.

One thing I still don't like is that we haven't had enough insight into any of the contestants. Aside from Ruby and maybe Yael, they are just ciphers and tokens right now: the racist Southern girl, the rich Texas daddy's girl. The rest haven't even achieved that much status. It would be nice to get back some of that Season 1 touch that humanized them and made them interesting.

I

[Marsupial]

Quote

Yeah, I think she did and should have expected to be treated differently.  They had formed a real bond, so with or without the show, Darius should have treated her differently.  Darius should have been man enough to treat her differently

Hmm, did they really though? Darius is very much playing his own game on this show and they had, what, two weeks together and a couple of hours of conversation? Did he really develop a deep bond with her? I don't see that. I think Darius has been playing all of the contestants and the show itself. If Ruby really thought that there was love there, I can buy it; but I feel sorry for her. She was duped, by Darius or the show or her own romantic longings. Anybody who expects to find love in that kind of setting is deluding themselves, but I can also see how it would be easy to think you had developed real feellings in that weird, closed environment. I think once Ruby is out in the light of day she will breathe a sigh of relief that she got away from that madness.

[FrancesL]

Quote

That was right after he asked her if she would like him if he wasn't (just) a football player (ie, if his injuries forced him to quit).  She encouraged him, saying that he was "more than a football player", he was a person with potential to be whatever he wanted to be.  The two statements you quoted weren't linked; they occured during separate conversations.

Agree completely. I think those two quotes have been taken out of context. Ruby stood up to her father, a person she admires greatly and announced that she loved Darius and also refused to leave. which to me,speaks volumes about how she regards him. I really didn't see "more than a football hero" as a put down because I don't think our career should define who we are, regardless of what we do. In Darius' case, being seen only as a football hero, becomes a problem since most women are drawn to him primarily because of his status as a rich and famous football and given his vulnerable situation with his injury, I'm sure he's wondering if these women would still feel the same way about him.  To me, Ruby's statement about him being "more than that"  was her way of saying that she fell in love with the person, not his career.  Lastly, I think that he admires Ruby a lot and if he really thinks he isn't good enough for her, it's more about his own insecurities than anything Ruby said to him. 

My other theory about why Darius let her go is that he simply wasn't willing to settle down and when Ruby made that big declaration of love, it scared him away and he decided to go with the "I'm not good enough for you" excuse.  Darius didn't go on the show to find a lifelong partner....he went on the show to improve his image and probably didn't really expect to make a serious connection with anyone.  I will really miss Ruby. I wasn't a big Darius fan in the beginning, ...but seeing him with Ruby made me like him so much more. Out of all the women, I really did see her as the only right person for him which is why I have a hard time caring much about any of the other relationship with the possible exception of Tiffany. I think that in an ideal universe, he'd end up with Ruby...however, this is a cynical and somewhat realistic show and in most of these reality contests, the guy rarely picks the right woman.  And this is not a show aimed at giving us happy endings!

Edited July 7, 2016 by FrancesL

[LotusFlower]

4 hours ago, jhlipton said:

That was right after he asked her if she would like him if he wasn't (just) a football player (ie, if his injuries forced him to quit).  She encouraged him, saying that he was "more than a football player", he was a person with potential to be whatever he wanted to be.  The two statements you quoted weren't linked; they occured during separate conversations.

No - same conversation.  It was the talk they had after the confrontation with her dad, right before the elimination ceremony.  She said that her father was an ass, but he wasn't totally wrong....she feels that she was put on this earth to make a difference, to be heard, and then he interjects: "and not to fall for a dumb-ass football player."  She told him he had potential to be something more, and when she asked him if that's what he wanted, he kind of winced.  It's possible they talked about the same subject earlier, but this was the gist of the pre-rose ceremony discussion, as it set up her elimination.