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The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

frenchtoast

By frenchtoast
in Counting On

cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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galaxychaser

galaxychaser

20 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, he says "me and Jinger" did such and such, too. And pretty clearly because he doesn't know any better. So -- all of a piece....

 

And I thought Jer was trying to get Jinger to look like Gabby when she first turned up blonde. Now it turns out he was really looking for a Cade type all along....

Cade is a long lost Duggar. He should change it to Jade and ask Jim Bob for a DNA test

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Spencer Hastings
Spencer Hastings

Tough crowd!  She's wearing modern shoes with closed toes, pants, and a shirt that literally calls back to her family's ridiculous rules and there are still 35 things wrong with what she's doing. 

Churchhoney
Churchhoney

That's okay. He's forgotten it a few times himself. 

GeeGolly
GeeGolly

My push presents after having my kids were my kids. 

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galaxychaser

galaxychaser

15 hours ago, Girl in a Cardigan said:

Also, looking at the photo more closely, it looks like Jeremy is wearing a belt with pants that don't have belt loops. Because the front of his belt is completely above his pants (you can see the white of his shirt underneath it). WHY??

I didn’t notice. My eyes went to Cade right away

But Jeremy is wearing a pocket square so all is good in the world 

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jcbrown

jcbrown

(edited)
20 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

There is a fix for the sound problem, or at least there's a fix that worked for me.

If the thing starts playing when you go to the page, you can open up the video, go over other right side of the toolbar thing at the bottom where the audio symbol is, click it and pull the volume knob down to the bottom. Then it'll turn off.

 

 

The problem I have (and that I now also have on page 520) is I can't figure out which post has the video embedded. I'll just avoid those pages.

Edited by jcbrown
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doodlebug

doodlebug

(edited)
8 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I assume Jenna is a woman? Aren’t they supposed to be subservient and meek, according to this movement?

Jenna is a woman, an attorney who works for the Thomas More Society, a legal firm that represents clients who feel their religious freedom has been compromised.  Specifically, they represent conservative, right wing Christian causes.  I presume Jenna is an evangelical, but not all evangelicals are opposed to women holding jobs other than in the ministry.

https://www.thomasmoresociety.org/

Ms. Eliis' bio on the website says she is an evangelical Christian who was homeschooled through high school and attended secular university and law school.  She's got a fairly impressive legal resume prior to joining this crowd.  She also authored a book 'The Legal Basis for a Moral Constitution' which explains how the US Constitution should be interpreted from a Judeo Christian POV.  Interestingly, she claims her legal work is a ministry which makes one wonder what MacArthur thinks of that assertion.

BTW, Thomas More is a pro bono firm, their clients pay no fees, their work is financed by donors.

Edited by doodlebug
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Chicklet

Chicklet

(edited)

Well as soon as Jere's church obtains their goal of becoming a hotspot for COVID and many suffer from their own hubris, hopefully the money they rake in will take a dive and they will be driven out of business. A girl's gotta dream.

And a part of me still thinks those who don't socially distance and won't wear masks should step aside and not seek treatment at a hospital. 

Edited by Chicklet
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doodlebug

doodlebug

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21 minutes ago, Chicklet said:

Well as soon as Jere's church obtains their goal of becoming a hotspot for COVID and many suffer from their own hubris, hopefully the money they rake in will take a dive and they will be driven out of business. A girl's gotta dream.

And a part of me still thinks those who don't socially distance and won't wear masks should step aside and not seek treatment at a hospital. 

Now, the Reverend MacArthur claims that NOT A SINGLE member of his church has been diagnosed with COVID, let alone been hospitalized or died from it.  Let's do the math:

Wiki reports that more than 8,000 people a week attend services there, so let's use 8000 as the number of congregants.  Then, California has a population of 39.5 million or so and there have now been over 600,000 cases of COVID in California.  That means that roughly 1 in 66 people in California have had a positive test for COVID; except for the parishioners of Grace Community Church where over 8000 people have all either tested negative or never been sick when, statistically, more than 120 of them should've tested positive.  IT'S A MIRACLE!  And my numbers don't even take into account the fact that Grace Community Church is located near Los Angeles and the case rate is higher there than anywhere else in California, so more than 1 in 66 people should be positive.

Does the King James' Bible only have 9 commandments?  Is the one about bearing false witness not in it?

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

33 minutes ago, Chicklet said:

Well as soon as Jere's church obtains their goal of becoming a hotspot for COVID and many suffer from their own hubris, hopefully the money they rake in will take a dive and they will be driven out of business. A girl's gotta dream.

And a part of me still thinks those who don't socially distance and won't wear masks should step aside and not seek treatment at a hospital. 

Seeking medical treatment may be the only way anyone will know if it caused an outbreak. And even then patients don't always cooperate with contact tracing.

At least the priest who did this cared enough about the parishioners to tell them he became sick.

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Ohiopirate02

Ohiopirate02

I am laughing thinking about using the name Thomas More in any conjunction with John MacArthur and MacArthur's actions.  I know Thomas stood up to Henry VIII and made the ultimate sacrifice,  but there is a huge difference between standing up to a spoiled brat who wanted to divorce his wife to marry his side piece and ignoring public health to gather for no reason.   Thomas More must be rolling over in his grave over this.  If he were alive today, Thomas would write the ultimate smackdown on MacArthur for a variety of reasons. 

 

 

 

 And PS, Thomas More believed in educating his daughters the same as his sons

 

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doodlebug

doodlebug

(edited)
50 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I am laughing thinking about using the name Thomas More in any conjunction with John MacArthur and MacArthur's actions.  I know Thomas stood up to Henry VIII and made the ultimate sacrifice,  but there is a huge difference between standing up to a spoiled brat who wanted to divorce his wife to marry his side piece and ignoring public health to gather for no reason.   Thomas More must be rolling over in his grave over this.  If he were alive today, Thomas would write the ultimate smackdown on MacArthur for a variety of reasons. 

 

 

 

 And PS, Thomas More believed in educating his daughters the same as his sons

 

Thomas More was also a devout Catholic and is a saint in that faith.  And pretending there is a connection between a man who was opposed to the King declaring his marriage of 24 years invalid and his daughter a bastard so he could marry an ambitious woman from an ambitious family in order to have a son, is not exactly the same as demanding the right to ignore public safety in a pandemic by a preacher who is worried about the collection plate.  Thomas More is probably doing headless somersaults in his grave as he was a very big believer in the public good as well as his faith. He, unfortunately, also burned a lot of heretics at the stake, maybe that is why they admire him.

Of course, there are those fundies, like the Botkin sisters, who are fans of Anne Boleyn, believing that her primary purpose in bedding Henry and become Queen was to further the Protestant cause in England and not for any worldly rewards.  Totally devout reformer, she was, in their opinion, put to death not because she didn't give the King a son, but because all of the closet Catholics in the hierarchy in England saw the threat she posed to their faith and betrayed her. Sure, ok.

Edited by doodlebug
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Chicklet

Chicklet

Well another way of telling when people have contracted COVID is when they die. So contact tracing isn't always the only way. And people are lying to the few contact tracers that are out there. McArthur has lots of elderly and immune compromised people in his flock (statiscally speaking), so hey throw caution to the wind because Jesus will protect. At least until they meet him and he slaps them upside the head.

Stupid always finds a way.

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Ohiopirate02

Ohiopirate02

12 minutes ago, Chicklet said:

Well another way of telling when people have contracted COVID is when they die. So contact tracing isn't always the only way. And people are lying to the few contact tracers that are out there. McArthur has lots of elderly and immune compromised people in his flock (statiscally speaking), so hey throw caution to the wind because Jesus will protect. At least until they meet him and he slaps them upside the head.

Stupid always finds a way.

I'm cynical enough to believe that MacArthur and his financial advisers did the math and decided those parishioners are expendable to his bottom line.  The only reason to hold in person services is money when he has the technology to broadcast online.  People are not tithing enough and MacArthur wants his money.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

I would really like to know what's going on inside the heads of Jer and other younger MacArthur acolytes as all this goes forward. Are they all just swallowing it? Or does any of them have a tiny sliver of independent critical thought remaining that makes him wonder whether this is the right thing to do?

Of course most of the seminary guys aren't LA residents and since the seminary only ever offers a handful of summer courses, even when there is no Covid, they're back at their homes where they can quietly opt not to attend these services without running afoul of the Master Jesus's #1 Preacher Man.....

But that certainly only makes it more of a necessity for those in LA to go. Jer's worn masks some when he's been on his own, as has Jinger, but the pictures of the church show hardly anybody wearing one in that crowd of thousands. So I think he'd really stick out to MacArthur in the wrong way if he and his bride showed up to church masked.....since JM probably does keep an eye on his proteges' degree of slavishness and there are only a few of them in the sanctuary right now.....

At this point Jer's seminarian persona and his social-media persona seem to be at the highest risk of a collision course they've ever been. Back when he was preaching his hotly anti-Jazz/anti-trans, anti-gay and anti-Catholic sermons in Laredo, he could hide them in an obscure corner of the internet. But if he were to take a contrary-to-MacArthur position to show his social-media followers what a regular guy he is, I'm sure somebody from the MacArthur retinue would notice and rat him out.

Wonder what Jer would do if one of them caught the disease and became symptomatic....Would their social media just go dark with an occasional posting of an old pic that pretends to be a new one?

Edited by Churchhoney
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Chicklet

Chicklet

2 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Wonder what Jer would do if one of them caught the disease and became symptomatic....Would their social media just go dark with an occasional posting of an old pic that pretends to be a new one?

 

I can bet they would just "be busy" and not mention it at all because Jesus won't let anything bad happen to his special people. And if someone dies of it, because people of all ages are dying of this virus, well the devil did it or something, I guess.

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Oldernowiser

Oldernowiser

13 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I'm cynical enough to believe that MacArthur and his financial advisers did the math and decided those parishioners are expendable to his bottom line

And I’m cynical enough to believe they’re shrugging and assuming the church is probably in some of those wills, anyway.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
22 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I'm cynical enough to believe that MacArthur and his financial advisers did the math and decided those parishioners are expendable to his bottom line.  The only reason to hold in person services is money when he has the technology to broadcast online.  People are not tithing enough and MacArthur wants his money.

I definitely think he wants his money first.

But I also think he'd love to be the poster boy for and leader of the conservative-Christian push-back that ultimately galvanizes churchgoers against the heathen supporters of epidemiology and revitalizes them as a political force to be newly reckoned with and the vanguard of a new religious revival and Great Awakening.

He was definitely trying to do that with the social-justice letter. He said that he was.

It didn't work out, but I doubt that he's given up the dream as he moves on into his 80s. I think he's at least as much of a fame whore as Jer -- which is one big reason I think Jer's been so attracted to him....But although he's already been much more successful at snagging fame and power than I believe Jer ever will be, I expect MacArthur is anything but satisfied with what he already has and as a guy in his early-80s, he wants to take every remaining chance he can get to go down in history as the leader of a real national movement of some kind.

And this anti-viral-measures-are-cover-for-an-assault-on-Christianity idea certainly is simmering all around the country, so it offers an opportunity that I'm sure he's noticed to be recognized as leading some kind of large-scale crusade. That's what he wanted the social-justice letter to be, but it fizzled. So my bet is that he figures God's offering him another chance to bring back America from the pit of heathenism -- and, incidentally, make a really big name for himself at the same time.

I expect Jer realizes this, too. I'm sure the MacArthur gang makes no secret of it.....So he's got a "two roads diverged in a yellow wood" problem here....Does he go for fame as a key crusader in MacArthur's new anti-Covid Christian revival? Or does he keep going for fame as a mainstream Christian social-media influencer? Decisions decisions! Hint to Jer: most likely, neither one of these is going to work out.

Edited by Churchhoney
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
14 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

How can it be an assault on Christianity when members of ALL religious are asked to follow the same rules?

Because the other religions don't count. Unless you're in the one true religion, you're not in a religion at all. Remember what Jer told us in his sermons -- the Catholics in Laredo constitute a "demonic" group that's taken over the city.....His word.

So imagine what they think about the non-Christian faiths.

Edited by Churchhoney
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doodlebug

doodlebug

36 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I'm cynical enough to believe that MacArthur and his financial advisers did the math and decided those parishioners are expendable to his bottom line.  The only reason to hold in person services is money when he has the technology to broadcast online.  People are not tithing enough and MacArthur wants his money.

I think it has got to be the money, nothing else makes sense.  Interestingly, my Catholic parish is having services weekly where masks are mandatory and social distancing is required-the pews are marked to keep people and families apart and, if you sit in the wrong part of the bench, an usher comes along and shows you where to sit.  We've had livestreamed services since the stay at home orders started mid-March and the local diocese has suspended Sunday obligation (Catholics are supposed to attend Mass every Sunday, no matter what).  When the church opened for services in mid May, some people returned, but the numbers have been steady about 125 people at the two Masses.  Normally, more than 2000 attend weekend Masses.  The livestream on Facebook is very popular with hundreds of viewers each week.  Last week, the pastor stated that Sunday collections are currently about 80% of pre-COVID levels because even the people staying home are contributing.  He expressed gratitude and a little bit of surprise that people were being so faithful and said that this was enough to keep the place going until times got better and everyone could come.  He specifically told those on the livestream that he was glad they were watching and absolutely no one needed to come to church unless they felt completely safe and comfortable doing so.

I guess MacArthur would never take a lesson from the heathen Catholics, but we seem to have figured out how to keep the ball rolling for now.

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doodlebug

doodlebug

(edited)
27 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

How can it be an assault on Christianity when members of ALL religious are asked to follow the same rules?

He also claims the Christians have been singled out in this mandate; apparently because there are dozens and dozens of non-Christian places where people are gathering by the thousands without masks or distancing.  He just never mentions where it is he thinks this is happening.  Maybe the Lakers are not playing in Orlando?

It is not just Christians or Hindus or Muslims who are subject to this rule, it is not just religious services that are affected.  I am having a hard time seeing how MacArthur's legal team is going to argue their case.  

Edited by doodlebug
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Oldernowiser

Oldernowiser

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1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

I am having a hard time seeing how MacArthur's legal team is going to argue their case.  

It’s not about winning the case, it’s about the publicity he’d get for filing it. 

Nobody does the Persecution Sniffle like a wealthy old white fundie misogynist.
 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
21 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

It’s not about winning the case, it’s about the publicity he’d get for filing it. 

 

Exactly. I think the hope is much more to become a martyr for the cause than to prevail in court --

Martyrdom can get you very fervent fans, and it can also unify your supporters around a common "severe" grievance, which translates into a more active and fervent group who are likely to be a surer source of money and further support for you and your chosen causes down the line. Give people the feeling that this now-persecuted group is really really fighting the good fight and they want to be a part of it. If you're a martyr, a lot of people are very likely to remember your name.

Doesn't necessarily work every time you try it. But it's certainly worked many times. So, worth a shot if you're looking to extend your fame and influence.

ETA: And if they lose in court, that loss can be used by other people who feel the same way to generate attention and sympathy and outrage, not just MacArthur. They can hold his loss up as an example to rouse their crowds, as they actually wouldn't be able to do if JM won his case.

I can't see any way for Jer to do anything but just ignore this whole situation. But I wonder how that's going to go over with the MacArthur crowd. I expect they'll be confused about how to respond -- they brought him on board to win over a broader group, notably a younger and probably still-to-be-converted-to-conservative-Calvinism group, I expect, through social media. So his keeping mum would probably be better for that purpose. But at the same time, I'd expect them -- or at least JM himself -- to be less than thrilled with an acolyte who's getting free tuition and housing but isn't speaking out for the cause.....

Edited by Churchhoney
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Genevrier

Genevrier

On 8/7/2020 at 8:35 AM, Jeeves said:

It's all pure spec here, lol, since I'm older than their mothers and can't stand fundies. But, I couldn't stand being in the same room with Jeremy for ten minutes and I'd pick Derick over him in a heartbeat if those were the choices in a spousal lottery and the alternative was a slow and painful death. 

I would go with the slow and painful death.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
1 hour ago, fonfereksglen said:

So, according to a legal decision,  as long as parishioners wear masks and maintain social distancing,  Jer and Jing can legally attend services  tomorrow.

Any chance for a perfectly curated photo of the Vs at church?

They're going to have some trouble with the social distancing. The pictures of recent services show very little room between the parishioners. They've been packing them in lately, apparently. 

I'll bet MacArthur isn't particularly thrilled with this ruling and inwardly even a little pissed.

I really think that his preferred outcome would have been a continued fight, "continued persecution."

I think he's a drama queen who loves making the point about how Christians like him are being put upon, and he would have loved to have the whole country see him and his church "suffer" this for their faith. 

The "sermons" and speeches he gave after WASC suspended his accreditation were wild, totally dripping with unhinged rhetoric about the people involved in that being devils who were after them because he and his institutions are so important to the Lord that Satan was using the accrediting agency people as tools to destroy him and his. He sounded like Jill Rodrigues on crack. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

🤦‍♀️

5FC8A0A2-C4BB-484F-BCD1-6C7478B26DE3.jpeg

Ah, more MacArthur flap damage control.

On top of his clothing allowance, Jer's decorating fund must be fairly hefty as well....Or else he gets a lot of gifts. I'm quite sure that bust wasn't in his religion-head collection last year. And he already had quite a few then. 

This guy is unknown to me, but then I've never really been up on my 20th-century conservative Calvinists.    

Here's Wiki's description. I can see why Jer likes him. I expect he aspires to sermons of the same length (he's got that already) and renown (sorry, Jer, not gonna happen):

"Lloyd-Jones was strongly opposed to liberal Christianity, which had become a part of many Christian denominations; he regarded it as aberrant. He disagreed with the broad church approach and encouraged evangelical Christians (particularly Anglicans) to leave their existing denominations. He believed that true Christian fellowship was possible only among those who shared common convictions regarding the nature of the faith.

"Lloyd-Jones was well known for his style of expository preaching, and the Sunday morning and evening meetings at which he officiated drew crowds of several thousand, as did the Friday evening Bible studies, which were, in effect, sermons in the same style. He would take many months, even years, to expound a chapter of the Bible verse by verse. His sermons would often be around fifty minutes to an hour in length, attracting many students from universities and colleges in London. His sermons were also transcribed and printed (virtually verbatim) in the weekly Westminster Record."

The guy was also a medical doctor.....

Guess that's why he knows enough to wear a mask. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Oldernowiser

Oldernowiser

46 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

He would take many months, even years, to expound a chapter of the Bible verse by verse. His sermons would often be around fifty minutes to an hour in length,

Doesn’t he sound like just all kinds of whoopin’ stompin’ good times...

RFP, it ain’t happening for you. You’re too boring, too uncharismatic, and too middle-aged; you don’t know what it means to do anything in any kind of actual depth; and face it, times (and attention spans) have moved on. Time for Plan D, if you have one...and you’d better.

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fonfereksglen

fonfereksglen

13 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

Doesn’t he sound like just all kinds of whoopin’ stompin’ good times...

RFP, it ain’t happening for you. You’re too boring, too uncharismatic, and too middle-aged; you don’t know what it means to do anything in any kind of actual depth; and face it, times (and attention spans) have moved on. Time for Plan D, if you have one...and you’d better.

He is also too cowardly to stand strong in his supposed beliefs. 

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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

(edited)
4 minutes ago, fonfereksglen said:

He is also too cowardly to stand strong in his supposed beliefs. 

Yeah, no pictures of the unmasked Vuolos marching defiantly into church last Sunday. He knew that wouldn't play well in Peoria. And his image always comes before his beliefs.

Edited by Sew Sumi
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doodlebug

doodlebug

(edited)
2 hours ago, Zella said:

I don't believe for a minute those dumbasses will wear masks or practice social distancing, despite the judge's order. 

They didn't do it last week, they surely won't do it now.  MacArthur's statement about it makes it pretty obvious to me anyway:

“This vindicates our desire to stay open and serve our people,” MacArthur said. “This also gives us an opportunity to show that we are not trying to be rebellious or unreasonable, but that we will stand firm to protect our church against unreasonable, unconstitutional restrictions.”

The restrictions that were so unreasonable were that churches could hold services outdoors with masks and social distancing.  So, the only change is that they now can do the same thing, except indoors.  If MacArthur wasn't wanting to be rebellious or unreasonable, then he could've easily have arranged for outdoor services on their rather substantial property.  Or, held their indoor service but with masks and social distancing.  That they didn't do either indicates to me that they have no intention of following the rules now and they are indeed being rebellious AND unreasonable.

I have a feeling all of this publicity has been good for the bottom line and MacArthur will be riding this horse all the way across the finish line for as big a payoff as possible.

Edited by doodlebug
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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

So now MacArthur will have to reduce capacity and parishioners will need to be masked. If not he will look like he is "trying to be rebellious or unreasonable".

I wonder if some of the thousands that attended last weekend weren't actual parishioners and were there to show their anti government support. That's if the pictures were real. They could have been from another time.

The parking area for this church must be huge. 

I understand churches being seen as essential, but many essential entities went remote if they could. Churches can do that. 

MacArthur's display and that of many others show just how pampered and entitled our society is. There's variations of this meme that shows up on FB every few months, asking if you'd give up something, like the internet for a year, to live somewhere else for free. Like in a beach mansion or remote cabin. Everyone always answers, YES, yes, yes. They're all liars.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

So now MacArthur will have to reduce capacity and parishioners will need to be masked. If not he will look like he is "trying to be rebellious or unreasonable".

I wonder if some of the thousands that attended last weekend weren't actual parishioners and were there to show their anti government support. That's if the pictures were real. They could have been from another time.

The parking area for this church must be huge. 

I understand churches being seen as essential, but many essential entities went remote if they could. Churches can do that. 

MacArthur's display and that of many others show just how pampered and entitled our society is. There's variations of this meme that shows up on FB every few months, asking if you'd give up something, like the internet for a year, to live somewhere else for free. Like in a beach mansion or remote cabin. Everyone always answers, YES, yes, yes. They're all liars.

That crossed my mind at first too (feeling hopeful that he wasn't totally filling his big sanctuary with dumbasses) but -- there were a handful of people wearing masks among the large crowd. So if they were reused pictures, they would have had to be very carefully photoshopped...

Plus, besides the fact that the photos were published by large LA media outlets -- who would have been as skeptical as we are about whether so many people would show up -- some of the published photos of the packed crowd have been screen grabs from the actual live video of the most recent service and I think at least one other was taken by a reporter.

So, yep, the congregation is as nutso and as heedless of the public good as their chief. "Pampered and entitled" is it, all right. And pampered and entitled to the point of deep stupidity, risking serious harm to yourself as well as to everybody else. And yet this is the group of people who are among the most likely to loudly declare themselves the true "patriots."

Edited by Churchhoney
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cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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