The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[Churchhoney]

6 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Okay, so I keep replying to my own posts ..... Why? who the heck knows.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Churchhoney
Because I keep ignoring the editing pencil and hitting the quote button

[Churchhoney]

50 minutes ago, kokapetl said:

Those poor, poor, athletic children. They never overcome being athletic and popular. 

Also can't say I've noticed a lot of athletes, young or old, being unable to participate in a church if they want to participate in a church. Seems to me there are lots of religiously active athletes out there.

I guess what I'm gathering from recent Duggarworld postings is that if you do anything in addition to church except affiliate advertising or other product shilling via social media, you're opening the door to creeping heathenism. ... Or something. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Christina87]

Does anybody else think that Jeremy kind of has the same mindset as Ma and Pa Duggar with his encouragement of Jinger playing the piano, like he's glad Jinger fits an image he wants to project? Ma and Pa wanted to have a bunch of little kids who could play instruments to enhance their own freak show schtick, but from Jeremy, I kind of get an early 1900's parlor feeling from his pride in Jinger's playing. Back in the day, girls took piano or violin to play in polite company, and it was a mark of ladylike refinement. I wonder if he would be as encouraging of her talents if she did hip hop dance or basketball, or heck, even contemporary Christian pop music. I feel like he is relieved that Jinger's talent just happens to be an appropriate hobby for good, modest young ladies of yore. I'm also thinking he's glad Jinger's just good enough to play Christian music competently, but I can't imagine his ego taking it well if she were at a concert pianist level. Maybe I'm wrong, since his mother is clearly very accomplished at her instrument, but Jeremy doesn't like to be outdone by anybody, and I can't imagine him taking it well if the little wifey was a virtuoso at something.  I also feel that if he took her talent seriously, he would want her to be the accompanist at church, especially in the year before she got pregnant...BUT...the church isn't big enough for two Vuolos, and her playing might take attention off of his master oratory skills (lol). I know she played at that SWAN thing, but let's be real, that was a continuation of the dog and pony show. And when has he ever posted video of her playing something amazing? He seems to favor the "in just dabbling at this, and Felicity is messing me up...haha!" kind of video. It's like she is just the right amount accomplished for him, in the right area to be convenient. I'm glad Jinger is getting support from her parents and Jeremy, but it almost seems like they all have an ulterior motive. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by Christina87

[Churchhoney]

24 minutes ago, Christina87 said:

Does anybody else think that Jeremy kind of has the same mindset as Ma and Pa Duggar with his encouragement of Jinger playing the piano, like he's glad Jinger fits an image he wants to project? Ma and Pa wanted to have a bunch of little kids who could play instruments to enhance their own freak show schtick, but from Jeremy, I kind of get an early 1900's parlor feeling from his pride in Jinger's playing. Back in the day, girls took piano or violin to play in polite company, and it was a mark of ladylike refinement. I wonder if he would be as encouraging of her talents if she did hip hop dance or basketball, or heck, even contemporary Christian pop music. I feel like he is relieved that Jinger's talent just happens to be an appropriate hobby for good, modest young ladies of yore. I'm also thinking he's glad Jinger's just good enough to play Christian music competently, but I can't imagine his ego taking it well if she were at a concert pianist level. Maybe I'm wrong, since his mother is clearly very accomplished at her instrument, but Jeremy doesn't like to be outdone by anybody, and I can't imagine him taking it well if the little wifey was a virtuoso at something.  I also feel that if he took her talent seriously, he would want her to be the accompanist at church, especially in the year before she got pregnant...BUT...the church isn't big enough for two Vuolos, and her playing might take attention off of his master oratory skills (lol). I know she played at that SWAN thing, but let's be real, that was a continuation of the dog and pony show. And when has he ever posted video of her playing something amazing? He seems to favor the "in just dabbling at this, and Felicity is messing me up...haha!" kind of video. I'm glad Jinger is getting support from her parents and Jeremy, but it almost seems like they all have an ulterior motive. 

Seems plausible. Obviously with both a mother and a sister who are professional-level musicians, he's had access to a pool of young women with skills similar to theirs.

I don't know whether he would fear that one of them would crowd his house with too many stars or not.

However, what he proactively chose was a stay-in-the-background person with those lady-in-the-parlor-level music skills and what I believe he really wanted -- a famous name and a million TeeVee and Social-Media followers. 

Whether it's coincidental or not, he definitely ended up with a woman who can burnish his chosen image but not outshine it (in the "complementarian" no-women-need-apply wing of modern Protestantism) while bringing along something he can co-opt for his own use -- fame and followers. For a guy who wants to climb the ladder, that's where the biggest value lies, I think. And it's working for him, too. A professionally-skilled musician-wife might be a minor ornament but would have no such career-building effect.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Scarlett45]

21 hours ago, Christina87 said:

Does anybody else think that Jeremy kind of has the same mindset as Ma and Pa Duggar with his encouragement of Jinger playing the piano, like he's glad Jinger fits an image he wants to project? Ma and Pa wanted to have a bunch of little kids who could play instruments to enhance their own freak show schtick, but from Jeremy, I kind of get an early 1900's parlor feeling from his pride in Jinger's playing. Back in the day, girls took piano or violin to play in polite company, and it was a mark of ladylike refinement. I wonder if he would be as encouraging of her talents if she did hip hop dance or basketball, or heck, even contemporary Christian pop music. I feel like he is relieved that Jinger's talent just happens to be an appropriate hobby for good, modest young ladies of yore. I'm also thinking he's glad Jinger's just good enough to play Christian music competently, but I can't imagine his ego taking it well if she were at a concert pianist level. Maybe I'm wrong, since his mother is clearly very accomplished at her instrument, but Jeremy doesn't like to be outdone by anybody, and I can't imagine him taking it well if the little wifey was a virtuoso at something.  I also feel that if he took her talent seriously, he would want her to be the accompanist at church, especially in the year before she got pregnant...BUT...the church isn't big enough for two Vuolos, and her playing might take attention off of his master oratory skills (lol). I know she played at that SWAN thing, but let's be real, that was a continuation of the dog and pony show. And when has he ever posted video of her playing something amazing? He seems to favor the "in just dabbling at this, and Felicity is messing me up...haha!" kind of video. It's like she is just the right amount accomplished for him, in the right area to be convenient. I'm glad Jinger is getting support from her parents and Jeremy, but it almost seems like they all have an ulterior motive. 

Oh absolutely. 

Now I don’t think Jeremy wants Jinger to be unhappy or suffer emotionally, but I think he’s happy to have a “refined” fundy wife. Like a lot of men he wants a woman of some accomplishment (which varies on your social milieu) because having a bumbling idiot as a spouse just makes you look bad, but he doesn’t want a woman who can outshine him in any way shape or form. He wants to be the star of the relationship.

Again, I do not think Jeremy is mean or cruel to Jinger, I don’t think he walks around the house belittling her verbally or anything like that. If Jinger expressed an interest in something Jeremy would encourage it so long as it didn’t interfere with her being available to attend to him and his needs- and that’s it. 

[Scarlett45]

3 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

However, what he proactively chose was a stay-in-the-background person with those lady-in-the-parlor-level music skills and what I believe he really wanted -- a famous name and a million TeeVee and Social-Media followers. 

Yup- Jeremy has (and had) aspirations of being a celebrity fundy preacher, and he wanted a young pretty virginal wife. Jinger fit his desires to a tea.

I do believe he met Jinger and liked her for herself (and vice versa)- but if Jinger had just been a regular girl he saw in line at Starbucks and thought she was pretty, he may have asked her out but not tried to marry her. Jinger also wanted a more “worldly” fundy guy, and he has lived on his own in the mainstream world. It’s also clear she was attracted to him, so they seem to be a good fit. 

[madpsych78]

39 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Oh absolutely. 

Now I don’t think Jeremy wants Jinger to be unhappy or suffer emotionally, but I think he’s happy to have a “refined” fundy wife. Like a lot of men he wants a woman of some accomplishment (which varies on your social milieu) because having a bumbling idiot as a spouse just makes you look bad, but he doesn’t want a woman who can outshine him in any way shape or form. He wants to be the star of the relationship.

Again, I do not think Jeremy is mean or cruel to Jinger, I don’t think he walks around the house belittling her verbally or anything like that. If Jinger expressed an interest in something Jeremy would encourage it so long as it didn’t interfere with her being available to attend to him an his needs- and that’s it. 

This is why Jeremy would not have been a good match for Jill or Joy (bumbling idiots) or Jessa (she would want to be the star). He might have been an OK match for Jana though.

[graefin]

3 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Found this picture. I want to know who is in the background.

Looks like Jenni Hartono?

[Lunera]

 This is the only picture I've ever remember seeing of Jessa with a guitar, from the People spread. I think they were using it to hide her pregnant belly. 

[fonfereksglen]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Also can't say I've noticed a lot of athletes, young or old, being unable to participate in a church if they want to participate in a church. Seems to me there are lots of religiously active athletes out there.

I guess what I'm gathering from recent Duggarworld postings is that if you do anything in addition to church except affiliate advertising or other product shilling via social media, you're opening the door to creeping heathenism. ... Or something. 

We are an extended family of Christians and Athletes and good students.  Most, other than one brother and me, attended either Lutheran or Catholic schools, some through high school. One through college where he played hoops.  Most of us are also either in college or college grads who must mingle with the world on a daily basis.  And we talk sports non stop whenever we can with whoever wants to join in.

Never has the combo of sports and Church been a problem with our faith. Nor did we have to choose between one or the other.

JerJer is so pompous. I would love for him to discuss this issue with our high school pastors and teachers.  They would eat him alive.

Edited March 9, 2019 by fonfereksglen

[JoanArc]

 What a sad excuse for Jer to give a speech about “ how I’m really athletic and popular, in case you forgot!”.

[fonfereksglen]

2 hours ago, JoanArc said:

 What a sad excuse for Jer to give a speech about “ how I’m really athletic and popular, in case you forgot!”.

I assume he will ignore the fact that neither his wife nor any of her siblings, even the males, ever had a chance to play organized sports, which makes me sad.

[Churchhoney]

55 minutes ago, fonfereksglen said:

I assume he will ignore the fact that neither his wife nor any of her siblings, even the males, ever had a chance to play organized sports, which makes me sad.

Yep. And with all these babies coming, I feel increasingly worried about this rising generation of Duggarlings. Will they get a chance to play team sports, or study ballet or hiphop dance or biology or world literature if they want to? Will they have friends their parents didn't choose for them based on religious suitability? The chance to play in a rock band with friends? Will they get to try out for a musical if they want to? Work for somebody who isn't Jim Bob? 

Generally this kind of situation loosens up with successive generations. But in this case, with the TeeVee show apparently encouraging most of the young Duggarling parents to keep the family mythology going, and money potentially getting tighter, how many of this young crowd will still be very poorly homeschooled, in at least some level of isolation, and denied any real outside influence or opportunities, just like the Duggarlings? 

It sickened me that this was done to their parents, and it'll sicken me even more if it's more or less repeated with the next generation. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Churchhoney

[queenanne]

On 3/8/2019 at 6:12 PM, leighdear said:

Such sweet shots of Lissie in the light from the glass window.  Jing & Jerm both have a very good eye for pleasing composition, use of light and balance in their photographs.  None of the other family members even come close.  But then, they may not care. 

And I like the piano video.  Have any of the kidults introduced their own kids to musical instruments early they way they were?  One thing I won't slam Michelle & Jim Bob on was getting their kids into playing instruments.  I think musical education in some form is great for kids, even if they aren't naturally gifted.  

Music has lots of benefits one doesn't ordinarily think of, it seems:

Brain scans have been able to identify the difference in brain structure between musicians and non-musicians. Most notably, the corpus callosum, a massive bundle of nerve fibers connecting the two sides of the brain, is larger in musicians. Also, the areas involving movement, hearing, and visuospatial abilities appear to be larger in professional keyboard players.

Initially, these studies couldn't determine if these differences were caused by musical training or if anatomical differences predispose some to become musicians. Ultimately, longitudinal studies showed that children who do 14 months of musical training displayed more powerful structural and functional brain changes.

These studies prove that learning a musical instrument increases gray matter volume in various brain regions, It also strengthens the long-range connections between them. Additional research shows that musical training can enhance verbal memory, spatial reasoning, and literacy skills.

https://www.inc.com/john-rampton/the-benefits-of-playing-music-help-your-brain-more.html

Conversely of course, one has to keep in mind that while a great many individuals learning instruments will be at least competent at the end of the process; not all will be remotely close to great/professional quality.

[Churchhoney]

7 minutes ago, queenanne said:

Music has lots of benefits one doesn't ordinarily think of, it seems:

Well, thank goodness the Duggarlings had something that helped their brains!

[FizzyPuff]

Felicity try's some sweet potato 🙂

[graefin]

So Jeremy and Jinger visit a music school with Felicity. The school offers lessons to kids ages three and up according to their website. Felicity is seven months old. Are Jeremy and Jinger just super eager parents who want to get ahead of the game, or is this more staged TLC poppycock? 🤔🙄

[FizzyPuff]

19 minutes ago, graefin said:

So Jeremy and Jinger visit a music school with Felicity. The school offers lessons to kids ages three and up according to their website. Felicity is seven months old. Are Jeremy and Jinger just super eager parents who want to get ahead of the game, or is this more staged TLC poppycock? 🤔🙄

Seems staged to me. The headbands are annoying me now. 

The other video they posted seems to be trying to sell Jana again with all her skills & Jessa is bossing everyone around as usual while doing nothing. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Puffin

[Ijustwantsomechips]

I don’t mind the big teal headband, but someone needs to tell Jinger the bow isn’t supposed to centered on her head. It’s a lot less obnoxious that way. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Ijustwantsomechips

[OpieTaylor]

2 hours ago, graefin said:

So Jeremy and Jinger visit a music school with Felicity. The school offers lessons to kids ages three and up according to their website. Felicity is seven months old. Are Jeremy and Jinger just super eager parents who want to get ahead of the game, or is this more staged TLC poppycock? 🤔🙄

I snickered when the music instructor said how important it is for Felicity to move to the music - I wonder what Jinger thinks of that.

[graefin]

10 minutes ago, OpieTaylor said:

I snickered when the music instructor said how important it is for Felicity to move to the music - I wonder what Jinger thinks of that.

Jeremy said Lissy was "dancing" also, and appeared to be tickled at the idea, so he clearly does not believe it leads to desires that cannot be righteously fulfilled 😏 Jinger's face, however, remained impassive throughout.

Edited March 10, 2019 by graefin

[Churchhoney]

42 minutes ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

I don’t mind the big teal headband, but soemone beeds to tell Jinger the bow isn’t supposed to centered on her head. It’s a lot less obnoxious that way. 

It does seem strange that the bows/flowers/knots/whatevers are always right in front. ....

But I wonder -- Maybe she puts it there because in that position it doesn't interfere at all if Felicity turns her head to the side when she's in a chair or carseat or lying down or something .... Plus, she has them on when she's wearing her hooded jacket, too, so a side-ornament could interfere with the hood but a smack-dab-in-the-middle-of-the-forehead one really won't. 

Jingle's style conscious, and virtually nobody puts the things right in front (for good aesthetic reasons!), so I'm thinking there could be a practical reason.  And freeing up Felicity to turn her head from side to side without bumping a bow seems like a possible good reason to me....(although I guess that's mainly based on my thinking that the bows look kind of uncomfortable and cumbersome, especially when the kid's in them all the time...)

[lascuba]

7 hours ago, graefin said:

So Jeremy and Jinger visit a music school with Felicity. The school offers lessons to kids ages three and up according to their website. Felicity is seven months old. Are Jeremy and Jinger just super eager parents who want to get ahead of the game, or is this more staged TLC poppycock? 🤔🙄

Staged, for sure. Jinger had that polite disinterested face she always has when she's doing something for the cameras. 

Anyone else snickered when Jessa said she used to want to play the flue but not anymore? 

[cmr2014]

On 3/10/2019 at 4:19 PM, OpieTaylor said:

I snickered when the music instructor said how important it is for Felicity to move to the music - I wonder what Jinger thinks of that.

Her face said that she didn't think much of it at all.

[Lunera]

Still in LA 

[Zella]

"Crush" seems like a weird word choice to use for your husband/"forever and always" "mi amor." Or am I just overthinking this? 

[Churchhoney]

11 minutes ago, Zella said:

"Crush" seems like a weird word choice to use for your husband/"forever and always" "mi amor." Or am I just overthinking this? 

Well, they don't really get much chance to have crushes the way other people do. They're not supposed to show or feel a casual interest in anyone. They probably don't quite get what the word means to other people.

I think it's probably like "best friend," which they also constantly use for spouses. ...

The spouse is the only actual emotional or physical attraction and relationship you're ever supposed to have, on their theory. So your spouse gets all the designations -- crush, best friend, etc.etc.etc. ....

Possibly also your mailman and UPS driver. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Zella]

1 minute ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, they don't really get much chance to have crushes the way other people do. They're not supposed to show or feel a casual interest in anyone. They probably don't quite get what the word means to other people.

I think it's probably like "best friend," which they also constantly use for spouses. ...

The spouse is the only actual emotional or physical attraction and relationship you're ever supposed to have, on their theory. So your spouse gets all the designations -- crush, best friend, etc.etc.etc. ....

Possibly also your mailman and UPS driver. 

Very true!

[mynextmistake]

On 3/6/2019 at 7:29 AM, JoanArc said:

Wait till they find out what Jesus did!

"Our black friend"

I got a case of that after a bar hook-up. Shot of rocephin cleared it right up.

Uh oh, you should also have gotten a gram of zith. Did you have a test of cure? 😉

[DangerousMinds]

5 hours ago, Lunera said:

Still in LA 

🤮 

[Lisa418722]

8 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, they don't really get much chance to have crushes the way other people do. They're not supposed to show or feel a casual interest in anyone. They probably don't quite get what the word means to other people.

1

I'm on a Christian singles Facebook page (please don't judge, I'm on it more now to snark).  Yesterday someone had posted a video from YouTube on how you shouldn't date "casually."  There were a lot of comments on how they don't date casually, they only date to marry.  My question (and to bring this back to the topic to the Duggars in general), how do these people get to know each other to know they want to marry?  I'm not going to date someone casually for two years, but I'm not going to go on a first date planning on marrying the person.  

[floridamom]

Why did Jeremy & Jinger bother to purchase a house? They are never there.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Lisa418722 said:

I'm on a Christian singles Facebook page (please don't judge, I'm on it more now to snark).  Yesterday someone had posted a video from YouTube on how you shouldn't date "casually."  There were a lot of comments on how they don't date casually, they only date to marry.  My question (and to bring this back to the topic to the Duggars in general), how do these people get to know each other to know they want to marry?  I'm not going to date someone casually for two years, but I'm not going to go on a first date planning on marrying the person.  

They mean you shouldn’t date for the purposes or recreational companionship and to satisfy your need for partnered sex. You should only date in a time in your life when you can devote time to looking for a marriage partner and only continue to date someone if you see them as a marriage prospect. I don’t think anyone expects you to know if you are going to marry someone on the first date, but don’t date someone who’s lifestyle/belief systems obviously don’t align with your goals or keep dating someone once you find out they are not compatible with your goals of marriage etc (which a LOT of people do)  

This actually makes sense to me if your purpose of dating is actually to get married (not to satisfy your need for recreational companionship/partnered sex etc). As someone who has no interest in marriage and ONLY dates to meet their need for recreational companionship and partnered sex maybe it’s easy for me to see the difference. 

[Jynnan tonnix]

23 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

They mean you shouldn’t date for the purposes or recreational companionship and to satisfy your need for partnered sex. You should only date in a time in your life when you can devote time to looking for a marriage partner and only continue to date someone if you see them as a marriage prospect. I don’t think anyone expects you to know if you are going to marry someone on the first date, but don’t date someone who’s lifestyle/belief systems obviously don’t align with your goals or keep dating someone once you find out they are not compatible with your goals of marriage etc (which a LOT of people do)  

This actually makes sense to me if your purpose of dating is actually to get married (not to satisfy your need for recreational companionship/partnered sex etc). As someone who has no interest in marriage and ONLY dates to meet their need for recreational companionship and partnered sex maybe it’s easy for me to see the difference. 

I dated very little before I met Mr Jyn in my mid-20's. Though I was always quite prone to quite violent crushes which would consume my life for whatever time they lasted, they tended to be either of the celebrity kind or focused on someone I had barely/never exchanged a word with (I was just that shy that I never managed to have anything like a conversation with a boy consisting of more than a sentence until I was out of high school, then went to an all-girls' college on top of that).

I was, however, very interested in being a wife and mother someday - it really was the only thing I aspired to be "when I grew up", though that had nothing to do with any kind or religious sensibility. It was just who I was.

I did go out with a few guys between the ages of maybe 19 and 25, but all but three of those "relationships" consisted of a single date, one of about four dates (though I didn't really like him at all, but couldn't shake him off quickly enough to suit me), one guy I really liked a lot, and went out with maybe three times, but who was prone to disappearing for weeks or months at a clip (I last saw him around November of 1993, and by the time he next called me I was already engaged) and one final guy whom I met just a week or two before I met Mr Jyn and went out with about six times - I liked him well enough, but was going out with the two of them at the same time for a couple of weeks and had to make a decision. So, yeah, basically unless I could picture a future with someone, I didn't date them just for companionship or sex (only one in the preceding list of dates, before Mr Jyn, made it even as far as second base)

I suppose that would still make me a slut by Duggar standards, but is probably a pretty sparse dating history compared to the average woman of my generation.

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

They mean you shouldn’t date for the purposes or recreational companionship and to satisfy your need for partnered sex. You should only date in a time in your life when you can devote time to looking for a marriage partner and only continue to date someone if you see them as a marriage prospect. I don’t think anyone expects you to know if you are going to marry someone on the first date, but don’t date someone who’s lifestyle/belief systems obviously don’t align with your goals or keep dating someone once you find out they are not compatible with your goals of marriage etc (which a LOT of people do)  

This actually makes sense to me if your purpose of dating is actually to get married (not to satisfy your need for recreational companionship/partnered sex etc). As someone who has no interest in marriage and ONLY dates to meet their need for recreational companionship and partnered sex maybe it’s easy for me to see the difference. 

I agree that this is what the more sane people do.

But I don't think this was exactly the case with the Gothard crew. In their group, I seem to remember that breaking off a dating/courting relationship after a little time was considered a terrible disgrace for the people involved. Because they'd seen someone for a while before deciding, they'd lost pieces of their heart that could never be returned to them or repaired.

Plus, I could swear I've heard them preach that young people of opposite sexes aren't even supposed to sit next to one another in gatherings and chat or the like, for the most part. Gothardland really really frowns on all-teen gatherings and they especially frown on gatherings with both males and females present. Somebody might get ideas!

I get thea feeling that the only thing the Gothard crowd was really programmed to approve of was having a couple of fathers (or Jessa!) decide that their kids would be a good match, or having a young man show up and petition a father to let him match with the daughter.

Then they allow the couple to see each other through a fenced door, the way you feed dogs or cats when you've brought a new pet into the house and you don't want them to kill each other over the food bowls. And, in the Duggar household, that was pretty much it. Then they're engaged. There was little question that, after dad's decreed it suitable, it's going to happen.

The only person in this group who saw someone in the dating way and then had it broken off is Josiah. And it seems to me that he has been treated like damaged goods since, and they certainly kind of pretended that that never happened, seems to me. 

I don't think it can be a coincidence that except for Josiah none of the Duggars has ever dated with intent for a short while and then broken it off. And given how that one was presented, I'm sure that was not intended to happen either -- that it was a courtship described as heading straight to marriage, not any kind of courting-to-see kind of deal.

If Duggars were simply dating with intent in normal modern conservative-Christian life, I'm pretty sure there would have been at least a couple more in which people decided after a bit that they weren't suited. They've got, what, eight people married now?

There's no way that seven out of eight couples would land on a person they actually wanted to marry in their very first instance of being able to hang out with and talk to an opposite-sex person at all if that wasn't the principle they went by, seems to me. If the principle was that you date looking for a marriage partner but still knowing you're initially deliberating and observing -- that this is not necessarily the one, but just a good candidate --  more than one couple out of eight is going to decide that first trial coupling isn't the one they want permanently. But that doesn't happen with the Duggars. 

I think the results show that they're not doing the more normal dating-with-intent scenario you describe -- which I think is definitely accurate for most people in their larger culture -- but on a more rigid, arranged-marriage track, really. Which would make sense because Gothard preaches and Jim Bob buys (to his delight) that young people largely shouldn't even be allowed to talk amongst themselves because there'd be rebellion, and the old father umbrella is the patriarch with all the power. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Plus, I could swear I've heard them preach that young people of opposite sexes aren't even supposed to sit next to one another in gatherings and chat or the like, for the most part. Gothardland really really frowns on all-teen gatherings and they especially frown on gatherings with both males and females present. Somebody might get ideas!

Yes that’s ridiculous. But I thought the original poster @Lisa418722 was talking about the more mainstream Christian notion of “dating for the purposes of marriage” not about the Gothard type courtships. They are very different beasts in my mind. The former makes since to me if that’s what your goals are, the latter is just a clusterfuck. 

 

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

I think the results show that they're not doing the more normal dating-with-intent scenario you describe -- which I think is definitely accurate for most people in their larger culture -- but on a more rigid, arranged-marriage track, really. Which would make sense because Gothard preaches and Jim Bob buys (to his delight) that young people largely shouldn't even be allowed to talk amongst themselves because there'd be rebellion, and the old father umbrella is the patriarch with all the power. 

Yes the Gothard way is much more of an arranged marriage (which I have no problem with) but what irks me about that is that they package it as romantic love. Of course we all know that romantic love can grow out of an arranged marriage, but that’s not WHY the couple gets married or what brings them together. 

[Churchhoney]

25 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes that’s ridiculous. But I thought the original poster @Lisa418722 was talking about the more mainstream Christian notion of “dating for the purposes of marriage” not about the Gothard type courtships. They are very different beasts in my mind. The former makes since to me if that’s what your goals are, the latter is just a clusterfuck. 

Yes the Gothard way is much more of an arranged marriage (which I have no problem with) but what irks me about that is that they package it as romantic love. Of course we all know that romantic love can grow out of an arranged marriage, but that’s not WHY the couple gets married or what brings them together. 

Yeah, I completely agree.

I was looking at this part of what @Lisa418722 wrote: "My question (and to bring this back to the topic to the Duggars in general), how do these people get to know each other to know they want to marry?"       And you were looking at the other parts of what she wrote ....

I think we just produced two accurate explanations of two different phenomena!  

[galaxychaser]

7 hours ago, floridamom said:

Why did Jeremy & Jinger bother to purchase a house? They are never there.

To store Felicity’s bows.

Edited March 12, 2019 by galaxychaser

[Ijustwantsomechips]

5 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

As someone who has no interest in marriage and ONLY dates to meet their need for recreational companionship and partnered sex maybe it’s easy for me to see the difference. 

With each quote, I like you more and more @Scarlett45!  

[Scarlett45]

6 minutes ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

With each quote, I like you more and more @Scarlett45!  

Ha you’re sweet thank you. 

About the Vuluos- I did like the heart photo with Jinger and Jeremy. I didn’t think it was weird when she said he was her crush- they’ve only been married two hot seconds though. 

It’s cute when couples have been together a long time and still flirt, or think their spouse is the “bees knees”. 

[Lisa418722]

6 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, I completely agree.

I was looking at this part of what @Lisa418722 wrote: "My question (and to bring this back to the topic to the Duggars in general), how do these people get to know each other to know they want to marry?"       And you were looking at the other parts of what she wrote ....

I think we just produced two accurate explanations of two different phenomena!  

6 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes that’s ridiculous. But I thought the original poster @Lisa418722 was talking about the more mainstream Christian notion of “dating for the purposes of marriage” not about the Gothard type courtships. They are very different beasts in my mind. The former makes since to me if that’s what your goals are, the latter is just a clusterfuck. 

Yes the Gothard way is much more of an arranged marriage (which I have no problem with) but what irks me about that is that they package it as romantic love. Of course we all know that romantic love can grow out of an arranged marriage, but that’s not WHY the couple gets married or what brings them together. 

Sorry for the delay in responding.  I do wonder how the Duggars (and the Christians on the singles' Facebook page I'm on) figure out they WANT to marry this person (and not just get married so they can finally have sex).   I know Christians (and the Duggars) wouldn't marry someone who was a non-believer, but sometimes some people are zealots for God and if you don't believe the way they do, you are going to hell.  Other people believe but don't push their beliefs onto others (which is the category I fall into).  

I've been out with Christians but when I see how he would treat other people (waitresses, etc.) I realize I do not want to continue to date him.  I went out with one guy for a few months that I'm sure was gay, but was so religious he couldn't/wouldn't admit that to himself.  I always wonder if he ever did get married.   I kept going out with him because it became a game to me and I knew there was no future in our relationship.  I just feel like if you are only dating someone you know you are going to marry makes it harder because people (including believers) are so different.

Thinking about Jeremy and Derrick.  Jeremy is more of a smooth talking zealot.  He might not tell you to your face that you are going to hell for the way you think, but he will think it and tell other people behind your back.  Derrick will tell you you are going to hell if you don't agree with him 100% (or block you on Twitter like he did me).

Edited March 12, 2019 by Lisa418722

[Ijustwantsomechips]

2 hours ago, Lisa418722 said:

Thinking about Jeremy and Derrick.  Jeremy is more of a smooth talking zealot.  He might not tell you to your face that you are going to hell for the way you think, but he will think it and tell other people behind your back.  Derrick will tell you you are going to hell if you don't agree with him 100% (or block you on Twitter like he did me).

That’s why I’d rather have Derick over Jeremy if I was masochistic and had to interact with either of these blowholes on anything religious or political.  At least you know what you’re getting with Derick. 

[leighdear]

It's all perception and lifestyle choice, I guess. 

Deertick to me represents that husband who's wife is always going to have to apologize for, because people won't "understand" his inexplicable views.  She has to provide context for his rants, and try to convince people he's really "a good guy".  And on a shallow, physical level, he consistently looks as if he got dressed in a dumpster, in the dark.  In clothes he found there.  

Jinger however, appears to have a well groomed, well spoken and intelligent husband that probably doesn't embarrass her on a regular basis, especially not on social media.  He also looks as if he showers daily.  And flosses.  I can't see Jing having to explain why Jerm has gone on yet another public diatribe about something not his business, about somebody he doesn't know, and that he doesn't actually understand. 

Deertick makes my skin crawl.  Literally. 

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, leighdear said:

I can't see Jing having to explain why Jerm has gone on yet another public diatribe about something not his business, about somebody he doesn't know, and that he doesn't actually understand. 

To be clear and accurate, though, it's clear that she would have to explain this if somebody who disliked the things that Der says went into a place where Jer was preaching or giving some kind of speech, of course.

Because in Jer's sermons and other conversations, such as on radio broadcasts, he regularly says the exact same things Der does, in the exact same inflammatory terms, and with pretty similar illogic and lack of verbal ability! 

The difference, of course is that Der says it on social media. But Jer says it only when he's giving a speech or sermon -- and presumably those who come to the speech or sermon agree with him, or are at least prepared to agree with him or wish to be taught by him, I suppose.

They say the same things, -- literally and in detail. So they're not Jer's business either, they don't involve anyone Jer knows and he doesn't understand them any more than Der does ......

He's viciously bashed Jazz as well as her parents; all transsexuals of course as well as any parents who show sympathy for a child of theirs who claims discomfort with the sex a doctor assigned them at birth (based on the look of the genitals, which can be a very questionable assignment, given how genitalia vary); anybody with sympathy for homosexuals who want to couple with other homosexuals; women who say that sexism currently exists and they've been harmed by it; blacks who say that racism still exists and that they've been harmed by it; and Catholics -- whom he's literally called demonic while pointing out that Laredo is a mostly Catholic city --  in his sermons and various pronouncements. He doesn't do it on social media because he wants to pass as a non-bigot. In truth, however, he and Der share the same beliefs, and, like Der, he speaks them out loud. But behind a church door or on a radio show that only people who agree with him ever listen to, or the like.

It's not about what they say. The things they say are virtually identical. The difference lies entirely in where they say it and whether they're pretty well dressed and recently showered or not at all well dressed and recently showered when they say it. 

I think that might be a distinction without a meaningful difference. But obviously MMV on that!

Edited March 13, 2019 by Churchhoney

[fonfereksglen]

10 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

They say the same things, -- literally and in detail. So they're not Jer's business either, they don't involve anyone Jer knows and he doesn't understand them any more than Der does

The things they say are virtually identical. The difference lies entirely in where they say it and whether they're pretty well dressed and recently showered or not at all well dressed and recently showered when they say it. 

Yup.  

[Zella]

Right on, @Churchhoney! I've said it before on here, but I have to say it again: Derick is despicable, but he's at least honest about what he thinks. To me, Jeremy is worse because he's a weasel who tries to save face. 

[Lunera]

3 hours ago, leighdear said:

Deertick makes my skin crawl.  Literally. 

Deertick! Bahahaha! 🤣🤣

[Lunera]

Found on Twitter 

[DangerousMinds]

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

To be clear and accurate, though, it's clear that she would have to explain this if somebody who disliked the things that Der says went into a place where Jer was preaching or giving some kind of speech, of course.

Because in Jer's sermons and other conversations, such as on radio broadcasts, he regularly says the exact same things Der does, in the exact same inflammatory terms, and with pretty similar illogic and lack of verbal ability! 

The difference, of course is that Der says it on social media. But Jer says it only when he's giving a speech or sermon -- and presumably those who come to the speech or sermon agree with him, or are at least prepared to agree with him or wish to be taught by him, I suppose.

They say the same things, -- literally and in detail. So they're not Jer's business either, they don't involve anyone Jer knows and he doesn't understand them any more than Der does ......

He's viciously bashed Jazz as well as her parents; all transsexuals of course as well as any parents who show sympathy for a child of theirs who claims discomfort with the sex a doctor assigned them at birth (based on the look of the genitals, which can be a very questionable assignment, given how genitalia vary); anybody with sympathy for homosexuals who want to couple with other homosexuals; women who say that sexism currently exists and they've been harmed by it; blacks who say that racism still exists and that they've been harmed by it; and Catholics -- whom he's literally called demonic while pointing out that Laredo is a mostly Catholic city --  in his sermons and various pronouncements. He doesn't do it on social media because he wants to pass as a non-bigot. In truth, however, he and Der share the same beliefs, and, like Der, he speaks them out loud. But behind a church door or on a radio show that only people who agree with him ever listen to, or the like.

It's not about what they say. The things they say are virtually identical. The difference lies entirely in where they say it and whether they're pretty well dressed and recently showered or not at all well dressed and recently showered when they say it. 

I think that might be a distinction without a meaningful difference. But obviously MMV on that!

They both do say the same crap. And neither Jinger or Jill has the intellectual capacity to try and explain their views to anyone.  All either can do is use their babies as props for the camera.

Edited March 14, 2019 by DangerousMinds

[Zella]

46 minutes ago, Lunera said:

Found on Twitter 

I'd pay good money for someone to ask Jeremy (preferably on film) about the time he did a keg stand with some woman who is named Avocado Tits on Twitter. 😉