S03.E08: Perpetual Night / S03.E09: The Blessed Dark

[RedHackle]

Quote

And I'll treasure the pilot episode, when Ethan, after fighting a group of vampires with Sir Malcolm, Vanessa, and Sembene, turns to them and asks "Who the fuck are you people?" That's when they had me. I was all in.

oh, me too. That was it.

Upthread a bit Glade posted about the poignancy of the John Claire storyline and I fully agree.  The moment in the second episode when he first appears you HAAAAATE him, but then you grow to feel for him and eventually to love him. Which brings me to the thing about Vanessa that was probably my favorite thing about the character; despite all the horror and degradation she has been through in her life, and how fierce a warrior she is, is how kind she was with so many people.  And how many of her friendships were with people that would be otherwise friendless, right?  I just loved that about her - all those calm, civil discussions she'd have with other characters that showed her kindness, and the way other people were drawn to her because of it. It sort of made everyone working towards saving her understandable. So very sad they couldn't have come up with a better ending for her character.  It's not that they (the writers I mean) killed her but the way they did it that infuriated me.  Such a weak ending for such a great show.

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, RedHackle said:

And how many of her friendships were with people that would be otherwise friendless, right?

How many of these characters are alone and friendless right now?  Ethan and Malcolm have found a sort of father/son relationship, but the others are almost as alone, as before the series started.

Victor was a particular disappointment to me.  Despite his good manners and education, I think something about him makes it very hard to connect with people.  The others have supernatural gifts/curses that set them apart from normal society.  However, Victor is alone because of his own actions and miscalculations.  I am surprised he has not reached out to Malcolm, but they barely had any time together this season.  He spent most of his time being an arrogant asshole to Dr. Jekyll and obsessing creepily over Lily's taming.

Jon Claire, Dorian, Lily, and maybe Dr. Jekyll are isolated and friendless.  You can tell that Vanessa will be missed by most of these chaps.  She was like the Princess Diana of lost souls (a comparison, I am sure the show runners will hate).

[RedheadZombie]

I do not believe this was intended to be the final season, and I don't believe this was the intended ending.  Premium cable usually announces their intentions.  For instance, HBO announced the next season of The Leftovers is its third and final season.  

So I feel betrayed because the show is lying to me.  This goes beyond the lie about Jon Snow, and Glenn from The Walking Dead, as well as the cliff hanger of TWD.  

So after three seasons, what was the point?  Sembene sacrificed his life for nothing.  Kaetenay turned Ethan into the wolf of God for nothing.   Ethan has hundreds of deaths on his soul for nothing.  Seven thousand people in London, and God knows how many people in the rest of the world, died for nothing.  And the two fallen brothers, Lucifer and Dracula, are hale and hearty, and will live to torment humanity for eternity.  

The exact same thing could have been accomplished season one, episode seven.  Vanessa begged Ethan to shoot her.  He could have killed her right then, and he certainly didn't need to be cursed or "blessed" by Kaetenay to accomplish it.  Dorian's painting came to nothing.  Lord Hyde will continue to cure (torture) the pathetic souls in Bedlam.  John Clare lost his only friend, then found and lost his family, and will continue to lurk on the fringes of life for fear of frightening someone.  

There are many arguments backing up the theory that this was never intended to be the series finale, and they had to do a quick re-write.  The very fact that the principle characters were split up with only Malcolm and Ethan ever reuniting in a significant way.  The wasted season two with the witches that accomplished nothing and stalled the story.   The endless scenes of crossing the desert.  Then the excruciatingly long therapy session with Renfield!  Renfield, FFS, had ten times the screen time of our tragic heroine.  A minor character.  More time was spent on him playing with and then eating that frog than was given to Ethan and Vanessa reunited.  

So I have been subjected to Ethan banging Hecate, and declaring his feelings for her.  Then I get to see Vanessa tell Dracula she loves him, then climb on top of him and growl, hiss, and spit.  Then Vanessa learns Dracula is the man who's been tormenting her and she's standing with a gun pointed at his chest, along with the info that he's easily killed in human form, and what does she do?  She chooses "herself", whatever the fuck that means, offers him her throat, and knowingly brings about the suffering of the end of days.  Then when she realizes her mistake, she again chooses to leave Dracula free to torment mankind, and makes Ethan kill her.   So not only has she handed her autonomy over, she's added another burden to Ethan.  

So again, what was accomplished?  If I'm desperately looking for the silver lining, and can over look the millions that probably died while Vamessa reigned as the mother of evil, I guess Vanessa's suffering is over and her soul isn't damned.  Ethan got someone to kill his father and found a new father figure.  Victor has two friends who will never know what he did with Brona.   Was it worth it?  Not for me.  And I will think twice before watching any new show Showtime presents. 

Edited June 23, 2016 by RedheadZombie
Damn autocorrect.

[Sakura12]

I think Vanessa had a fitting end, the rest of the characters not so much. I always figured Vanessa would have to die to be free. It might have been better if she took her own life instead of having the man save her. Or at least die by killing Dracula. The vampire fight was cool, but these last two episodes felt really rushed, I felt like a I skipped an episode or two. Plus I was also waiting for badass mother of evil Vanessa and all I got was Vanessa standing in a fire hazard room.  

Victor went through so many personality changes I don't know what to think of him. John Clare was just there for me, wasn't really interested in his story. Lily and Dorian went nowhere. Malcolm didn't do much either. 

What was the point of the Underworld reject? I thought she was going to revealed as half vampire or something. Instead she was just some random vampire hunter, they should've made her a Van Helsing then. Dr. Jekyll was just about as pointless. 

[Door]

I'm not ready to give up this show, the score, or these characters. Like others have mentioned, this ending felt too shoehorned in and so much intrigue was left unexplored - it's a crime!

A plague upon whomever decided to pull the plug on this lovely, heartbreaking snapshot of gothic Victoriana.

[qtpye]

Good God, this how had so much potential.  Yes, I think the part of the show runners only doing three seasons is bullshit.  They probably learned about the cancellation half way through and no longer had the budget to make the finale this show deserved.

It happened to another one of my favorite show, "Being Human".  Just like here, the third season was going in one direction, when all of a sudden it had to do a severe turn to wrap up all the character story lines.  However, it had a much more satisfying ending then this series.

They might of well just waved their hand and proclaimed "a wizard did it" and not wasted my two hours.

I will miss the beautiful characters and the lovely Gothic aesthetic.

[EmmaPeel]

I loved the way this show played up and played with the Gothic/Victorian fear of female sexuality. Vanessa's libido was literally so monstrous it could summon the devil. And then the episode with the contrast between the three bros telling Lilly they would make her a proper woman and Dracula telling Vanessa she could be who she was seemed like a potential set-up for showing men to be as monstrous as the monsters. (Especially with the regular undertones of England haunted by empire.) 

But, no. Vanessa is the self-sacrificing woman who dies so patriarchy can live. Her funeral is literally the white guys in front, the women and non-white guy in the background. It felt like a lost opportunity to do something subversive with the genre.

[qtpye]

18 minutes ago, EmmaPeel said:

I loved the way this show played up and played with the Gothic/Victorian fear of female sexuality. Vanessa's libido was literally so monstrous it could summon the devil. And then the episode with the contrast between the three bros telling Lilly they would make her a proper woman and Dracula telling Vanessa she could be who she was seemed like a potential set-up for showing men to be as monstrous as the monsters. (Especially with the regular undertones of England haunted by empire.) 

It really was fantastic how the show could be so modern and archaic at the same time.  The truth is we are still wrestling with Victorian ideals to a small degree in the modern age.

[Cindylou]

I found it darkly  enchanting.

[EmmaPeel]

Watching it a second time (masochism) it still felt horribly rushed but I wonder if the arc was meant to echo Tennyson's "the old age changeth, yielding place to the new." Vanessa represented the enchantment of a world of the supernatural (including religion) and her death marked a transition to modernity that is disenchanted. It would mirror a lot of gothic arcs and the ending in which all the characters simply shuffle on with no greater meaning as the great battles of good and evil have given way to the world of man. Or maybe it's just a tv show.

and while Eva Green is amazing, Patti LuPone really nailed the camp mood of the show. I regret that we never saw Dr. Seward and Mr. Lyle together (True Detective season 3?)

[Dobian]

The End.  So that's it I guess.  I had no idea they were doing the last two episodes in one shot, I watched episode 8 the other night and saw the last one in the On Demand menu.  For a moment I thought I had missed a week.  It was an odd, disjointed season.  Vanessa wound up only in one small scene with John Claire and of course her final scene with Ethan.  She never shared a moment with Malcolm the whole season.  Considering that's it for her and it looks like the series, it just feels very strange.  I suspect the writers knew this was the last season so they really rushed through Ethan's back story, Dorian/Lily, Viktor, and John Claire.  I'm sure when they scattered all the characters to the four winds at the end of last season, they figured they could run their separate stories this season and then get them back together again for next season.  Instead, it was just a race to get them all assembled again so Vanessa could die and they could close out the series.  It's a shame, really.  I liked the show a lot.  It would have been fun to see the Dr. Jekyll story unfold, instead they just had to leave it to the imagination.  They did a good job, though, of bringing closure to that story with a hint of what is to come ("Lord Hyde").  However, Mr. Lyle was relegated to a cameo and a hasty exit, and the introduction of a new character, Catriona, so late in the game, was disorienting.  John Claire's final moments with his son and at Vanessa's grave were the most beautiful of the episode.  For a monster, he was the most human of them all. 

I enjoyed this series, but will always think about what might have been.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Dobian

[Andromeda]

Nooooooooooo!!!! I had no idea this was the end of the series!! I love this show. Please, please have a spinoff.

[Bec]

I’ve seen some pretty awful endings (*cough* Burn Notice *cough* How I met Your Mother *cough*), so this was not so bad, considering. 

Sure it didn’t make a lot of sense, but it was so poignant and poetic! That pretty much sums up this whole show.

Seems like something of a retcon to say that Victor created Lily to save his own ass. Have the show forgotten that Victor could have blown Caliban’s head off instead, but chose not to because he was so moved by Caliban’s sadness? Having Victor be moved by Lily’s speech was pretty much a repeat of that scene. Not that I’m complaining, because that was beautiful. I always love it when Victor’s compassionate side comes out to play.

To be fair to the show, I suppose from Lily’s perspective, she wouldn’t know Victor had a chance to end Caliban, so it would just look to her like Victor made her so Caliban wouldn’t kill him.

I thought for sure Victor was going to die, if not killed by Lily then killed in the final battle with Dracula, and then John Clare will show up looking to get his kid resurrected and be told “Sorry, dude, Victor’s dead.”

Not sure it would have been such a bad thing to bring his kid back. He would be brought back to his loving parents! That’s not the same thing as what John Clare went through! Or even what Lily went through!

Take heart everyone, next time you are some place really smoggy, you can pretend that’s caused by the mother of all evil coming back and making the very air pestilence to mankind.

[Fredward]

I liked some things. Dorian's cold, lonely perfection was nice, especially contrasted with Lily's torch-that-burns-too-hot-and-too-fast-but-can't-actually-burn-out ending. Dr Jekyll/Lord Hyde was clever enough. The rest though?

Meh. You're gonna have a hard time convincing me this was the planned ending and the inclusion of Hardigan (Harditagan? Hardesign?) was necessary cuz SRB had to absolutely leave right now even though there were just a few episodes left. I also didn't like that Vanessa's story was about having losing and finding god again but I'm a bit of a heathen, I was expecting a story of ownership of your own destiny on your own terms. Maybe I'm wrong but this felt a river flowing in one direction and then having it suddenly diverted in a different one. And it was a total crime not to have Eva Green play a larger role in the ending of the Vanessa Ives story, extremely lame.

This series always felt a bit like it prioritized style and striking visuals over consistent characterization and coherent story but this season, and especially these last few episodes really drive that up to 11. It's just a wee bit too much to have me buy this as the intended ending. Or maybe it was the ended ending but just came about a bit... prematurely.

 

EDIT:

John Claire's ending was pretty heartbreaking and as per usual he and Vanessa had excellent chemistry. Even if she was technically just a headstone at the time.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Fredward

[lmsweb]

On 2016-06-22 at 9:40 PM, Sakura12 said:

I think Vanessa had a fitting end, the rest of the characters not so much. I always figured Vanessa would have to die to be free. It might have been better if she took her own life instead of having the man save her. Or at least die by killing Dracula. The vampire fight was cool, but these last two episodes felt really rushed, I felt like a I skipped an e

I believe this was a deliberate decision on the part of the writer and also the character herself - despite becoming The Mother of Evil, Vanessa was, at her core, deeply religious and a Catholic. Suicide, in Catholicism, would have resulted in her soul spending eternity in Hell and barred from entering heaven.

[Dobian]

I was surprised the show ended when I watched it last night, now I'm just bummed.  I still find it ironic that it took the whole season for Malcolm and Ethan to get back to England, only for Vanessa to meet Ethan one last time at the very end before he killed her, with Malcolm just a floor below.  Eva Green and Timothy Dalton never once appeared in the same scene again after the end of last season.  It was all so rushed to bring some kind of closure, with Vanessa fully on-board being the mother of evil, then switching to wanting peace and redemption the moment she saw Ethan.  I'm sure if the show had a future, she would have been the mother of evil all through next season.  It was especially jarring because this has always been such a slow burn show, with more talking than action, and exploring moral themes taking precedence over monster bashing.  I suspect that's why the show never quite caught with a lot of people.  Compare that to a show like Supernatural, which is packed full of demon and monster killing with the occasional pause for the main characters to stop and reflect on what it all means.  One of the highlights of this final season for me, aside from John Claire, was Lily, who had some very fine moments from Billie Piper.  I will miss this very unique show, it's a shame it never got the chance to fully evolve.

[loki567]

I'm curious what the season would have looked like if they had stuck with the original season three plan. I wonder if Vanessa accepting Dracula's offer might have been the season ending cliffhanger and Ethan would have spent the entire season in America. Even his confrontation with his father felt rushed and having Hecate/Rusk died as easily as they did, didn't feel right. 

Assuming the show doesn't get miraculously saved, I hope Logan talks about what some of his plans were for season three and four. I seen it speculated that there was an Egypt/Mummy storyline we missed. 

[RedheadZombie]

10 minutes ago, loki567 said:

I'm curious what the season would have looked like if they had stuck with the original season three plan. I wonder if Vanessa accepting Dracula's offer might have been the season ending cliffhanger and Ethan would have spent the entire season in America. Even his confrontation with his father felt rushed and having Hecate/Rusk died as easily as they did, didn't feel right. 

Assuming the show doesn't get miraculously saved, I hope Logan talks about what some of his plans were for season three and four. I seen it speculated that there was an Egypt/Mummy storyline we missed. 

I agree with your top paragraph.  And Logan won't talk about his original plans, because he's lying about this being the ending from the beginning. 

I've scratched season one DVDs from my Christmas list.  Perhaps that's why I'm still so bitter.  I re-watched season one right before this season, and was so invested in these relationships.  I remain disturbed days later, and I'm someone who didn't mind the GoT Jon Snow lie, and last season's TWD debacles. 

Just be honest show.  You planned for a season four, and Showtime screwed you with a cancellation, and you threw an ending together. There are so many signs that this is the truth.  One I didn't mention earlier is the heavy does of Catriona the final episode.  And her matching of wits and flirtation with Malcolm were clearly meant to follow in next season. 

I hate to give the finale any praise, but Billie Piper got to me.  She's been my least favorite character, but I teared up.  I was so proud of Victor for coming to his senses, and Caliban for doing the right thing by his boy.  But it's not enough.  They screwed the character of Vanessa, in my opinion, and eliminated Eva Green's chance for an Emmy.  I wonder if a show's heroine has been almost written out of the final two episodes before. 

[GenieinTX]

Here is my version of what happened to our characters after the end of Penny Dreadful - heavily influenced by you guys I assume.

Cat is revealed to be a time traveler.  She and Sir Malcolm team up to fight evil and they have lots of sex.

The old Apache teaches Ethan to control his wolf, and then he dies, saying something wise and cryptic.

Ethan is broken.  Broken and guilt ridden for a very long time.  He fights evil with Sir Malcolm and Cat and they take down The Mummy when Mr Lyle brings him back from Egypt.  Women come in and out of his life, but he never lets them in.  They desperately want to fix him, but it never works.  When he is older with grey in his hair, he finds Lily.  She cares for him as he dies of some horrible disease as he did for her.

Victor ends up helping Jekyll make his formula.  Jekyll is havoc upon the city.  Is taken down by Cat, Mal, and Ethan.  Victor eventually dies of a heroin overdose.

Dorian was right.  Eventually Lily comes back to him.  They are glorious monsters together but drift apart again, over and over, for a several centuries.  Eventually Lily has had enough and burns them both, including the painting, to death.

Mr. Claire - this one I’m not sure about.  He either travels the world, being lonely but helping where he can, or he figures out a way to end his existence rather quickly as everyone he loves is gone.  What do you think happens to him?

[RedheadZombie]

So I think the character I miss most will be Ethan.  When Vanessa first meets Ethan and says she wants to hire him for some "night work", he gets that twinkle in his eye, and you know he's thinking about being hired to service her sexually.  This when we later learn he was such a miserable tortured soul.  And it's terrible to know that he was cursed for a purpose he would never serve.

If the show got short notice of the cancellation, one would think it's related to splitting up the gang.  They brought out the best in each other, and breaking up that magic was a disaster. 

I also wonder if Eva Green had indicated she was disinterested in a fourth season.  And here's why.  Her character came off worse, IMO, and her story was the least satisfying, IMO.  She had the opportunity to kill Dracula, and submitted to him on a whim.  She brought about great suffering for the entire world, then asked to be murdered.  Her death scene sucked, and the tears (at least for me) were shed for the men who lost her, and their reaction to her loss. 

It wouldn't be the first time an actor or their character was punished by a show runner.  Shonda Rhimes is pretty famous for doing it.  It would help explain why Eva Green was all but absent from the final two hours of the series, and why she had no interaction with the other leads, besides five minutes with JH.  Then they buried her and moved on.  Seems like a Shonda Rhimes thing to do.  Or like when Suzanne Somers pissed off Three's Company, and the rest of the cast acted together, while Suzanne would be filmed on the phone.  I just feel like Eva was deliberately side lined, and I'm wondering why.

ETA:  For those who love JH and haven't seen it, check out 30 Days of Night.  It's just a vampire movie, but his character is so like Ethan.  I always tear up at the end.

Edited June 24, 2016 by RedheadZombie
JH

[Bec]

I liked 30 Days of Night, too.

Oddly enough, I'll miss Victor. This is still going to go down as my favorite version of the Frankenstein story because of how much more layered the Victor character got to be (in the first two seasons, anyway), instead of just some asshat like in the original and pretty much every other version I've ever seen (I've never liked Victor Frankenstein in any other version). Victor was... not good for a lot of this season, but Harry Treadaway was a revelation on this show to the end.

His movie "Honeymoon" kind of sucked, though. I don't recommend it.

I'll always give this show points for teaching me vocabulary like "solipsistic self-aggrandizement".

[FurryFury]

Really disappointed at the ending. I'm certain something was going behind the screen because you just don't finish a show while giving its main star 5 minutes of screen time. You just don't. Especially after going to such lengths to give her a "showcase" episode each season. 

Writing-wise, the season was terrible, but I'm still sad to see the show go.

Hope to see all of its cast in other stuff because I think casting (and overall atmosphere: props, and maybe direction at times) were its biggest strengths. I think for instance that the actors playing Dorian and Victor were completely wasted in their roles, they deserve more (plus, they are hella hot and I like watching them, yes, I can be shallow). And maybe Eva Green will finally get a show that would give her all the awards she deserves, even if she doesn't care about them.

[Broderbits]

Quote

RedheadZombie said:

They screwed the character of Vanessa, in my opinion, and eliminated Eva Green's chance for an Emmy. 

Oh, I think her Emmy submission episode would have been the flashback to her time in the asylum. That was spectacular work.

[iMonrey]

Quote

This season had all the hallmarks of a decision to end it being made midway through shooting it.

Agreed. I don't buy that it was always meant to be a three season show. What I do buy is that Josh Logan always considered the show to be all about Vanessa, and when Showtime told him they weren't renewing the show he probably said "That's OK because I've run out of ideas for Vanessa." Clearly, since her story has basically be rehashed for three seasons. I think maybe he did have a three season arc in mind for Vanessa, but nobody plans to do a show for just three seasons. That really isn't practical from a financial standpoint.

Edited June 26, 2016 by iMonrey

[RedheadZombie]

On June 24, 2016 at 6:28 PM, GenieinTX said:

Here is my version of what happened to our characters after the end of Penny Dreadful - heavily influenced by you guys I assume.

Cat is revealed to be a time traveler.  She and Sir Malcolm team up to fight evil and they have lots of sex.

The old Apache teaches Ethan to control his wolf, and then he dies, saying something wise and cryptic.

Ethan is broken.  Broken and guilt ridden for a very long time.  He fights evil with Sir Malcolm and Cat and they take down The Mummy when Mr Lyle brings him back from Egypt.  Women come in and out of his life, but he never lets them in.  They desperately want to fix him, but it never works.  When he is older with grey in his hair, he finds Lily.  She cares for him as he dies of some horrible disease as he did for her.

Victor ends up helping Jekyll make his formula.  Jekyll is havoc upon the city.  Is taken down by Cat, Mal, and Ethan.  Victor eventually dies of a heroin overdose.

Dorian was right.  Eventually Lily comes back to him.  They are glorious monsters together but drift apart again, over and over, for a several centuries.  Eventually Lily has had enough and burns them both, including the painting, to death.

Mr. Claire - this one I’m not sure about.  He either travels the world, being lonely but helping where he can, or he figures out a way to end his existence rather quickly as everyone he loves is gone.  What do you think happens to him?

I'm good with Cat and Malcolm.  There was a definite spark, and he has to be the hottest seventy year old out there.   They have an oops baby, and Malcolm puts all of his regret into action, and raises an adored and self-confident child.  After his passing, Cat returns to the future and she and Malcolm's kid kick ass. 

I agree with Ethan learning to control his wolf.  But I don't foresee such loneliness.  He's gun shy after losing two loves and a witchy lover, so he explores his other side with Dorian.  They have a brief fling, and after a gang of prostitutes destroys Dorian's portrait in revenge for Lily and Justine, Ethan finds to his shock that Dorian has left him his estate, to be shared with some woman named Lily.  

By freeing Lily, Victor realizes he can no longer play God.  Rather than giving into morphine, he seeks out Malcolm and Ethan, and moves in with his friends.  They share stories about Vanessa, and talk about what could have been.  

After losing his beloved only friend and his family, John Clare realizes he cannot go back to hiding in the shadows, fearful of rejection.  He's drawn to Victor and the two forgive each other.    After learning of Clare's connection to Vanessa, Malcolm insists he move into the townhouse, and they do a lot of male bonding.  After some time passes, his wife forgives him (she catches him leaving her gifts and money), and they comfort each other as they grieve the loss of their child.  

Lily returns to claim her half of Dorian's estate.  Ethan is shocked but after all he's experienced, he's forgiving of Victor.  Lily has realized that helping to lift women up actually has nothing to do with killing men, and hangs up her homicidal ways.  With Ethan's permission, she converts Dorian's estate into a home for unfortunate women and children.  She feeds and educates them, and finds them gainful employment.   She has feelings for both Ethan and Victor, but there's too much history there.  One day, she meets an exotically handsome man named Lord Hyde. Having reined in her own crazy, she helps him bring it down a notch, and he learns to cure mental illness.  After discovering that he's actually straight, Lord Hyde and Lily become an item. She teaches him to care less about societal acceptance, and together they help the poor. 

Always a sucker for a woman in trouble, Ethan helps out in Lily's charity home.  He meets a woman who's totally not dark, nor in need, and she concentrates on helping him with HIS darkness and HIS torment.  He loves her but when he dies of old age, he finds he's reunited with Vanessa in the after life, and the destiny is finally met.  

Victor meets some sweet young thing, and he joins in with Lily and Hyde to better mankind.

Or something like that. 

[raven]

On 6/24/2016 at 7:23 PM, RedheadZombie said:

If the show got short notice of the cancellation, one would think it's related to splitting up the gang.  They brought out the best in each other, and breaking up that magic was a disaster. 

Having them apart the entire season was not a good move, I agree.  Not sure if that's what brought about cancellation, though I think it's obvious IMO they wouldn't have been apart for so long if the cancellation was known about earlier. 

I was OK with Vanessa giving in to Dracula - it's easier to give in than fight, and she had been fighting for a long time and had no one for support.  I'm not surprised that it appeared she regretted that choice either and may have manipulated the situation to allow Ethan to get to her.  Yes she could have killed herself but I go with she was weakened by what she caused to happen and just wanted to see Ethan again and who can blame her for that, heh.

I also like Ethan though I was disappointed by his backstory resolution.  Though the "Little Scorpion" episode is a favorite, I loved his interactions with Mr. Lyle, sneaking around in the museum and the gentle flirting back and forth.

John Clare ended up being a favorite, with a full story and a sad ending.  Rory Kinnear was so good and that voice!  Very nice.

Really, all the performances were good and generally memorable. Harry Treadaway was another standout for me, the cold, inhuman monster made human. Billie Piper, the potential of Jekyll...I ended up liking Seward very much in the finale.  The actor playing Renfield was also good , but why so much time with him when there were other stories to tell?  Etc, etc.

On 6/24/2016 at 10:23 PM, Bec said:

always give this show points for teaching me vocabulary like "solipsistic self-aggrandizement".

Byzantine dalliances!

On 6/24/2016 at 7:23 PM, RedheadZombie said:

It's just a vampire movie, but his character is so like Ethan.  I always tear up at the end.

"The one who fights".  OK, I may have seen that movie more than once.  I also get a little teary at the end.

On 6/22/2016 at 1:03 PM, RedHackle said:

I just loved that about her - all those calm, civil discussions she'd have with other characters that showed her kindness, and the way other people were drawn to her because of it. It sort of made everyone working towards saving her understandable.

These were actually my fave Vanessa scenes.  "Decolletage" with Victor, talking poetry with John Clare.  Vanessa actually smiling! 

Damn, no Penny Dreaful tonight, unless I crank up the DVR.  Sigh.

[raven]

In Egypt, Mr. Lyle has a run in with a mummy called Imhotep.  No one believes the mummy has killed several in the expedition except for Mr Lyle and a handsome Egyptian museum curator.  Together they defeat the mummy just as Mr. Lyle gets word of Vanessa's death.  Devastated, he finds comfort with his new lover and they fall in love.   They work together to add to the museum and have many adventures along the way.  Occasionally they are joined by Malcolm and Cat (before she time travels back home).  I see adventures involving the Ark of the Covenant, maybe Noah's ark...they do come back to London to wrap up Mr. Lyle's life there.  He is nearly killed when Dracula and his minions return but everyone finally defeats them and Mr. Lyle has not a hair out of place.

I like the idea of Dr. Seward joining for Ferdinand for adventures.  At this point she goes to Egypt with him and his lover because why not?

Edited June 26, 2016 by raven

[Proclone]

On 6/26/2016 at 0:27 PM, iMonrey said:

Agreed. I don't buy that it was always meant to be a three season show. What I do buy is that Josh Logan always considered the show to be all about Vanessa, and when Showtime told him they weren't renewing the show he probably said "That's OK because I've run out of ideas for Vanessa." Clearly, since her story has basically be rehashed for three seasons. I think maybe he did have a three season arc in mind for Vanessa, but nobody plans to do a show for just three seasons. That really isn't practical from a financial standpoint.

 

Except the show doesn't really make a whole lot of sense without Vanessa as the center.  She is the axis on which the entire show pivoted.  She was the only character who has had scenes with every other major character.  She was the thread that basically tied everything together.  Without Vanessa I don't think the show would have worked at all.  I didn't mind Catriona as a character (I thought she was actually quite fun flirting with Malcolm), but I really don't think she would have worked as a replacement as the center of the show unless the plan was to change genre from dark Gothic horror to dark (but probably considerably lighter in tone then it had been) action adventure.  If that was the plan then it may be for the best that the show has ended.  While I would probably watch the heck out of a Buffy the Vampire Slayer set in Victorian London, that's not what I signed up for with Penny Dreadful.  While she was fun, to be honest even in her limited appearances she felt like she was from a different show.

I don't really mind that the ending was tragic.  I pretty much figured that it would be from the start (Gothic horror novels aren't known for their happy endings). That being said, there's a difference in an ending being sad and tragic, and it being unsatisfying.  And I found this ending deeply unsatisfying.  As others pointed out, Ethan just shooting Vanessa doesn't make much sense since he could have done it two seasons ago when she asked him to and saved a few thousands lives in the process.  To be honest I always pegged Ethan as he one to bite the dust.  He said to Vanessa, "You will not die while I'm here. You will not surrender while I live. If I have one goddamn purpose in my cursed life, it's that."  Now in my book it's poor storytelling to have a character say something like that and not have him follow through.  It's Chekhov's line, Ethan needed to save Vanessa.  It's his purpose in life and in the story.  I wouldn't have been surprised if he sacrificed himself in the process, but he needed to save her.  Even if his death allowed her to shake off Dracula's hold, kill Dracula and die herself (implied to reunite with Ethan in Heaven), I would have been ok with that ending (and would have still made the line true, "You will not die while I'm here."), but the ending we got leaves Vanessa dead but Ethan still alive and apparently a liar.  I could point out several other examples that imply Ethan would be the one to die as well-the line, "Your road may be difficult, but mine is doomed." And the very fact that he's the Wolfman, they generally don't get happy endings (not even addressing that him being the Wolfman-Lupus Dei doesn't even factor in to the ending so what was the point of him being a werewolf?). You don't foreshadow something that hard and not follow through.

Also we didn't see the ultimate destruction of evil.  Sure both Dracula and Lucifer were cheated out of their ultimate prize, but there's nothing to indicate they can't still be doing the same level of evil they were doing before.  Yeah, Armageddon isn't happening,but there's nothing to show that all vampires and evil witches have been wiped from the earth.  If Vanessa was going to die, then it should have been in the service of erasing evil, not just kneecapping it. 

I won't even go into the other story lines that were left dangling.  If the show was given short notice of it's cancellation I can't entirely blame it for not being able to tie everything up, but I do think Vanessa's death could have been handled better with no extra time needed.  By all means kill her, kill the entire cast off, but have them die in a manner that gives their death meaning.  Otherwise it just feels like a shoot (literally in this case) the shaggy dog story, and I feel like I've wasted my time in watching.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Proclone

[TobinAlbers]

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As for Dracula, he throws our heroes around for a bit, and then just disappears. Buh? No transformation into his true self? No one-on-one fight with the Wolf-Man? No dramatic stake through the heart?

My money is on they had no budget for any kind of massive CGI battle of Dracula v Wolf Man. Especially if they were told mid season they were being cancelled. And shooting out in the West could've eaten into the budget for later shows. Also this show never went big effects for final battles. Just lots of fire and minions to be shot down. 

I think of we had gotten a sense of Vanessa's struggle and final decision on the metaphysical realm while the team was fighting vamps in the physical realm then her final meeting with Ethan wouldn't have felt so rushed. we see her staring at the wall when Ethan comes in but imagine while she was staring at walls she was actually having a battle in her mind palace with a flip of when Dracula and Satan had used the form of John Clare to appeal to her with the light and dark sides of herself still appealing to Vanessa (or dark takes the form of Mina and light takes the form of Dr. Seward or some one else important). Sprinkle a couple of those scenes in the episode  and we see that happening inside Vanessa so that when Ethan finally arrives she's made her choice and we don't know what she will do when she turns around until she finally tells him to kill her.

Damn, Dracula was a dick to Sir Malcolm: 'Yeah, I used your daughter just to get Vanessa. And she was a sweet piece of ass.' I mean yeah I think we knew this but to hear it was cooooold.

Cat definitely was primed to be paired with all the men as she clicked with Ethan, Sir Malcolm, and Victor but given that she's no damsel and saved each of them in the 2 hours (and constantly reminded them of it) the dynamic of the men rallying to save this lady friend would definitely shift. Cat's a character with potential but she's no Vanessa Ives.

[iMonrey]

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Except the show doesn't really make a whole lot of sense without Vanessa as the center.  She is the axis on which the entire show pivoted.

The show didn't have to revolve around Vanessa. It did that by design, because - Eva Green. Sir Malcolm began as (and could have remained) the catalyst for the bulk of the stories. There were other ways to intertwine the various characters. I really thought the show beat "save Vanessa" to death during the first season. I did not enjoy seeing it rehashed in Season 2 and Season 3. 

John Logan was clearly enamored with the idea of Vanessa and/or Eva Green. The stories that were not about Vanessa felt half-baked. We barely scratched the surface of Dr. Jekyll and the actor showed so much potential. There's so much more to tell about John Clare and Victor Frankenstein, both still have so many unresolved issues and will be connected forever. Lily was left as a dangling plot point and there was no closure for Dorian. Don't even get me started on Ethan, or Mr. Lyle.

I know that for many, the show was simply a showcase for Eva Green and she was the main draw. But I would have enjoyed the show a lot more without her and would happily watch a fourth season without Vanessa.

[ganesh]

I'm a little disappointed these weren't two separate episode threads because I couldn't watch both at once. 

I'd have no problem with the show carrying on without Vanessa either. Or have her come back as an angel! There's plenty going on with all the others to hold my interest. We barely saw much of Dorian, and didn't get much on "Lord Hyde." Post-Vanessa, the show could be more anthology with Mr Lyle returning with some old books and such that foretell dark times. 

I would have liked for the main cast to have reunited a little sooner too. 

[Guest]

On 6/25/2016 at 0:14 PM, FurryFury said:

I'm certain something was going behind the screen because you just don't finish a show while giving its main star 5 minutes of screen time. You just don't. Especially after going to such lengths to give her a "showcase" episode each season. 

I'm on board with the "something going on behind the scene" theory. That's the only way I can explain the inexplicable Catriona whose character seemed like she wandered on set fresh from filming cut scenes from Final Fantasy 74 looking for some pick-up work. The producers didn't even care enough to figure out some period wardrobe for her -- just some 21st Century sci-fi shit that would look at home in a 21st-Century sci fi movie filmed in 1996.

I still have no idea what Brona and Dorian were trying to achieve by creating an army of ladies with murder on their minds. That idea fell apart quicker than a hut made of Kleenex in a rainstorm.

This idea of this show was so much better than its execution. What a waste of time.

[placate]

Piss off, show!  I was waiting for the Lily and Ethan reunion.  I was also waiting for the "What the Hell, Frankenstein?  You used my dead girlfriend as a science experiment!" confrontation.    Did we even get to see Dorian's portrait?  I know we've seen him staring at it but I can't recall if we've actually seen it.

[RedheadZombie]

On July 7, 2016 at 1:26 AM, placate said:

Piss off, show!  I was waiting for the Lily and Ethan reunion.  I was also waiting for the "What the Hell, Frankenstein?  You used my dead girlfriend as a science experiment!" confrontation.    Did we even get to see Dorian's portrait?  I know we've seen him staring at it but I can't recall if we've actually seen it.

We saw it.  It was disappointing. 

[Guest]

 We saw it.  It was disappointing.

This sentiment also serves as an apt epitaph for the series. 

Edited July 12, 2016 by Guest
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[millennium]

The final five minutes were heartbreaking but the real sadness flows from the tragedy of wasted potential.

This season was a hodgepodge of plots that went nowhere or served little purpose other than to rob the show of its characteristic cohesiveness.   Didn't Logan feel it all going sideways?

Of the entire season, only Vanessa's funeral scene and the death of John Clare's son truly felt like Penny Dreadful.

In my mind, the show ended with Season Two.  

This show provided "roles of a lifetime" for several actors: Eva Green, Timothy Dalton, Josh Hartnett and Rory Kinnear ... even Patti Lupone (as the Cut Wife, not Seward).

It was a privilege to watch.

[Captanne]

From the very moment he appeared on my television screen, Rory Kinnear stole the show. In a good way, not in an upstaging way. 

[Hanahope]

Just finished watching the series. I don't get Showtime, so I binged in Netflix.

 I have to agree that the third season felt the weakest, primarily because the characters were all separated.  Plus, Ethan's story line was really useless.  If we had gotten some better information of his backstory, it might have been better.

I knew Vanessa died ahead of time, so knowing that was coming I concentrated on some of the other stories.  

I kept wanting Ethan to meet Lily, I guess that was being saved for a future season that didn't happen (and was another reason he had to be out of London for a while).  Her story was pretty good, but it seemed that Dorian got bored a bit too fast.  He knew what she was doing, he was helping her and seemed quite on board.  I kept wondering when we'd hear about the 'crime wave' of 'hand robbing whores', but nothing came about that.  I was dissapointed that Justine was dispatched so quickly and with so little fan faire. 

I was a bit surprised that John Clare didn't actually consider resurrection for his son through Victor.  After all, he saw both Proteus and Lily be resurrected, and saw that the process kept improving.  Lily was significantly better than John was, she wasn't in any of the pain that he went through.  She looked much more normal, and no one would treat her like they treated John.  Since Victor would have done similar 'prep' surgery on the boy, if John participated, John could have eased the resurrection 'pain', if any, and help him regain his memory.  Both Proteus and Lily regained theirs much quicker and fuller, so John's son may have as well.

I agree that the Cat character didn't seem to belong.  Maybe she had an interesting back story, but her current story didn't seem very compelling, and she seemed to be even more of an anachronism than Vanessa.  It only seemed that she was put into the story to be the new 'young female' since Vanessa was going to die.