S08.E11: Invitation Interrupted

[Yours Truly]

On 6/17/2016 at 5:34 PM, zoeysmom said:

Yes, we do and in the past three episodes Bethenny has gone off the rails over Luann writing an etiquette book, and I believe there was a scene this week where it appeared Luann left Bethenny with the check, a re-run of Season 2, I believe.  It is not as if I am talking about RHOBH here.

I was thinking the same thing cause Beth brings up that Lu wrote an etiquette book somewhere in her rant. And actually the bulk of this attack is how Lu contradicts herself and is a hypocrite and to be honest I think the fact that you brought up Season 1 ties into a point that I've been making and it's they are throwing everything and the kitchen sink at Lu and a lot of it is pretty much ancient history for one and second, some of it has actually already been used to lash out at Lu in the past. I was tickled that you referred to so far back cause that's how corny these grievances are. LOL.

[Yours Truly]

On 6/17/2016 at 9:02 PM, ryebread said:

I agree about using a lazy T in these words.  Nobody anywhere except Lisa Vanderpump says, "Kit -ten" or "ManHAT-tan" - making both Ts hard. 

But it's Carole's lack of any T in those words, "KI'en" "WRI'en" - lazy or otherwise - that makes her sound like a 12 year old who's trying to be precious.  Perhaps if she didn't try so hard to be precious in other areas, this wouldn't be such a stand out.  

It's also possible that her extreme overbite makes her unable to form a lazy T sound. I just tried to fake an overbite and say the word, 'kitten'.  For science, yo.   It's hard to do.

LOL.  The show, silly.  I only play for one team.  Although not literally a whole team. 

I said this! I wasn't just trying to be catty (although I did frame it pretty harshly) but it was supposed to be a real observation as well. LOL. Glad someone else pointed that out. I think it's actually a significant cause.

[Yours Truly]

12 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

As I've learned from Captain Lee, from Below Deck, and not from Chef Leon that it's fine to keep pans in the oven provided the pans are clean. I'm assuming that because smoke and flames weren't billowing from Adam's oven, that Adam's pans were clean.

Below deck was about whether extra pans being in the oven could cause an over fire. The point of the pans in this regard is that the pans being in the oven will affect how the heat is distributed and when it comes to baking in particular every detail affects the outcome since chemistry is such a factor.

[zoeysmom]

All I know about muffin pans is my pan manufacturer recommends filling unused cups in the pan with water so as not to degrade the pan.  So if I have a 12 muffin pan and only use 9, I am suppose to fill the empty three half full of water.  I brought up the empty pans way back on Page 2 because as a chef, I was surprised Adam would leave pans in the oven.  Maybe the whole thing was just for show and the oven wasn't even turned on.

[RHJunkie]

3 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

This is interesting to me because I don't see Carole acting particularly "lovelorn" at all. I don't ever see her acting as if she is more vested in the relationship than Adam is. Take the episode when we were first introduced to her kit'en. He walked in and she was happy to see him, but she just kept working on what she was doing. Didn't drop everything to give him all her attention. He made the watermelon deal and spelled out "Carole" on the plate, which seemed sweet and like something you do for a person you care about. From what I've seen, they both seem to be on the same page with their relationship. 

I also don't get the impression that one is more invested than the other. However, when I listen to Carole's TH, I would guess they're an affectionate couple but when I see them, it doesn't always seem to have a natural vibe to it. But they've been together for a while now so I think it's very possible that the presence of the camera has something to do with. I do recall reading that Adam doesn't like the cameras. It could also be a combination of the editing as well  - for example, Carole was talking about how both of them have found a great working flow together but then the camera cuts to footage of her talking about the book intro but Adam's response seems pretty lethargic and uninterested.

[RHJunkie]

14 hours ago, pbutler111 said:

I honestly don't understand what the big deal is.  ALL of these women refer to themselves and each other as "girls" constantly.  So why is it now a big deal this one time Carole did it?  

I'm assuming it's because the term was used to describe herself in a book intro rather than using it informally...at least that's my guess. I don't see it as a big deal either...I think using the term 'girl' for the book intro gives it a more whimsical vibe to it.

[Castina]

Regarding hypocrisy and Luann's etiquette book.  I wonder how Bethenny views herself considering she once wrote a  Naturally Thin book and pushed herself as a natural food chef and today she sells processed food.  Does that make her a hypocrite?  I wish these women would argue intelligently with her BUT I fear the need for a paycheck keeps them in line.  

[sasha206]

When I say "lovelorn" I don't mean that she's walking around like a wounded puppy so in love with Adam she can't see straight.  Lovelorn might have been the wrong word to use.

I just see her as a woman who is in a relationship with a signficant age difference who is doing eveyrthing she can to give it permanency -- by her own words.  She lamented her expiration date (5 summers) and then in a couple of episodes later, she's talking about how everything in her life is temporary...so she wants to have permanency with Adam.   According her own words, she got out of a contract to essentially write a book with Adam.  

With age-appropriate Russ, she seemed blase about the whole relationship.

I'm not saying Adam isn't "smitten" but it wouldn't surprise me if tomorrow, he meets up with a beautiful woman his age, breaks up with Carole, gets engaged 6 months later, gets married and has babies.  Carole seemed to realize that he will likely move on so he can experience the things she can't give him, and then suddenly, the departure of adopted kitten makes her decide she wants more with Adam.

I don't know.  As a 48 year-old woman, I can't imagine how you date an attractive man nearly have your age and expect anything more than a temporary fling, no matter how in love with you he seems at the time.  So I feel like on some level, by tying him to a book, she's subconsciously tying him to her.

[pbutler111]

3 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Bitch eating crackers for sure.

Last season this was a big thing as well. Someone started keeping track of all the other times the others referred to themselves or the group as girls. I think Lu said it as much as anyone else. 

Luann is nuts with the "girl" thing.  I think it always sounds even weirder coming from Luann, as she delivers it in that voice that sounds like she's just about the sing "Old Man River".  I think when most of the ladies use the term "girls" it just sounds like they're being semi-jokey, but when Luann does it, it smacks of that desperation-for-youth vibe I get when some of these women (I'm looking at you, Ramona) make a big deal out of talking about the supposed regularity of their periods, as though trying to convince anyone listening that they're still young and vital because Aunt Flo is making regular visits.  I also think Carole says a lot of things that, to me, at least, are clearly meant to be ironic and/or lighthearted.  But because some people simply don't like her, they'll take those things and treat them as though they were said in deadly earnest, and use them against her.  I mean, come on -- do you honestly think that Carole thinks you can't get cancer from pink cigarettes?  Not likely.

[pbutler111]

8 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

When I say "lovelorn" I don't mean that she's walking around like a wounded puppy so in love with Adam she can't see straight.  Lovelorn might have been the wrong word to use.

I just see her as a woman who is in a relationship with a signficant age difference who is doing eveyrthing she can to give it permanency -- by her own words.  She lamented her expiration date (5 summers) and then in a couple of episodes later, she's talking about how everything in her life is temporary...so she wants to have permanency with Adam.   According her own words, she got out of a contract to essentially write a book with Adam.  

With age-appropriate Russ, she seemed blase about the whole relationship.

I'm not saying Adam isn't "smitten" but it wouldn't surprise me if tomorrow, he meets up with a beautiful woman his age, breaks up with Carole, gets engaged 6 months later, gets married and has babies.  Carole seemed to realize that he will likely move on so he can experience the things she can't give him, and then suddenly, the departure of adopted kitten makes her decide she wants more with Adam.

I don't know.  As a 48 year-old woman, I can't imagine how you date an attractive man nearly have your age and expect anything more than a temporary fling, no matter how in love with you he seems at the time.  So I feel like on some level, by tying him to a book, she's subconsciously tying him to her.

A book isn't a child.  You can write a book with someone and then quite easily walk away and never see or speak to them again in your life.  Maybe I'm misreading things, but I didn't take Carole's conversation with Bethenny to mean that Carole is all of a sudden desperate to get married again and settle down -- after decades of being against remarrying, and even breaking up with a boyfriend she loved because he wanted to get married and she didn't.  What I heard her saying is that she always goes into things with the idea that they will be temporary, and actively puts herself in situations that are, by nature, temporary, but she's now starting to see the importance of at least allowing for permanency in her life.  It's not that she suddenly wants to marry Adam, but that she no longer wants to be someone who focuses on inevitable endings rather than on present happiness.  At least that's the way I heard it.

[Eater of Worlds]

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

I said this! I wasn't just trying to be catty (although I did frame it pretty harshly) but it was supposed to be a real observation as well. LOL. Glad someone else pointed that out. I think it's actually a significant cause.

I've had years and years of speech therapy, 10 years total.  The T sound isn't made by putting the tongue against the back of the top teeth, it's made by putting the tongue against the front of the hard palate.  You have that flat area of your hard palate behind the teeth and further back your hard palate rises before it reaches the soft palate.  Your tongue needs to press against that flat area to produce the T.  Most people do it near their front teeth, but your tongue doesn't have to hit the front teeth to make the proper sound.  The D sound is made in a very similar way.  If Carole has no issues making the D sound, I doubt her mouth structure is why she doesn't say the T sound in certain words.  If her overbite were that bad that she couldn't reach to make a T sound, she wouldn't be able to reach to make a TH sound either because your tongue has to come further forward to make that sound.  Carole only does the glottal stop instead of a T when saying specific words, I believe, because no one has ever said she doesn't say her T sounds in other words.  So she doesn't say it for kitten, mitten, smitten, but says it for T at the front and back ends of words.

 It's just a regional accent.

[Gaily]

The Tipsy Girl battle rages on. Sonja is opening a Tipsy Girl lounge in NYC in July too:

http://pagesix.com/2016/06/19/sonja-morgans-latest-jab-in-booze-battle-with-bethenny-frankel/?_ga=1.50261030.1032332601.1454492440

[Yours Truly]

2 minutes ago, Eater of Worlds said:

I've had years and years of speech therapy, 10 years total.  The T sound isn't made by putting the tongue against the back of the top teeth, it's made by putting the tongue against the front of the hard palate.  You have that flat area of your hard palate behind the teeth and further back your hard palate rises before it reaches the soft palate.  Your tongue needs to press against that flat area to produce the T.  Most people do it near their front teeth, but your tongue doesn't have to hit the front teeth to make the proper sound.  The D sound is made in a very similar way.  If Carole has no issues making the D sound, I doubt her mouth structure is why she doesn't say the T sound in certain words.  If her overbite were that bad that she couldn't reach to make a T sound, she wouldn't be able to reach to make a TH sound either because your tongue has to come further forward to make that sound.  Carole only does the glottal stop instead of a T when saying specific words, I believe, because no one has ever said she doesn't say her T sounds in other words.  So she doesn't say it for kitten, mitten, smitten, but says it for T at the front and back ends of words.

 It's just a regional accent.

Oh I just thought it was her buck gums. <shrug>

[sasha206]

8 minutes ago, pbutler111 said:

A book isn't a child.  You can write a book with someone and then quite easily walk away and never see or speak to them again in your life.  Maybe I'm misreading things, but I didn't take Carole's conversation with Bethenny to mean that Carole is all of a sudden desperate to get married again and settle down -- after decades of being against remarrying, and even breaking up with a boyfriend she loved because he wanted to get married and she didn't.  What I heard her saying is that she always goes into things with the idea that they will be temporary, and actively puts herself in situations that are, by nature, temporary, but she's now starting to see the importance of at least allowing for permanency in her life.  It's not that she suddenly wants to marry Adam, but that she no longer wants to be someone who focuses on inevitable endings rather than on present happiness.  At least that's the way I heard it.

Given that the book is based on their relationship "Vegan Chef Falls for Junk Food Addict..." seemingly, there's an expectation that the relationship is intact at least until published and promoted.  

I don't think permanancy in her view = marriage, nor is it in my world.  Not viewing this relationship as temporary -- like everything else in her life -- suggests that she wants a future with him.  She's gone from thinking of Adam as a cute, temporary fling that is an ego booster to thinking of him as someone she can settle down with despite their ages.  And I think for me, I'm bringing the realism from a 48 year-old perspective that, unless he's using her, the permanancy she's seeking isn't likely from this type of May/December relationship.

Again, I'm not suggesting that she isn't lovable, isn't desirable, isn't a fascinating person to be around.  He may very well be in love with her.  But I do think her perspective on him has changed and I do question her judgment.  Seek someone who has already had the life experience of having a child or the years in life to know that being childless is the only way you want to be.  That's the person you'll have a better chance of having permanence with.  I personally think she's setting herself up for a tremendous fall; she's lost the realism and self-awareness she had before.

[ryebread]

29 minutes ago, pbutler111 said:

But because some people simply don't like her, they'll take those things and treat them as though they were said in deadly earnest, and use them against her.  I mean, come on -- do you honestly think that Carole thinks you can't get cancer from pink cigarettes?  Not likely.

Yeah, that's the nature of snark.  And, no, I don't think Carole really believes that you can't get cancer from pink cigarettes.  But saying it was dumb and smoking cigarettes, of any color, is dumber.  I think even the smokers, here, might agree.

I don't believe she meant that any more than she believes the tea reader. Or that all she eats is M&Ms and pizza or that Luann has a constant parade of men into Sonja's townhouse. I even question if she really ate that laced gummy bear. Carole just says a lot of dumb shit.  And/or lies.

She reminds me of Kelly.  They both sometimes act like 12 year old girls in 50 year old bodies.  Which is fine, I suppose.  But why is Kelly the one that gets the grief for her cartwheelin', gummy bear eatin' ways?  Because she's loonier?  I'd agree. However, she *is* more prolific and doesn't appear to have a problem meeting deadlines. So there's that.

[jaync]

A Beth-hosted, SkinnyGirl-sponsored cast trip...are TPTB trying to render the audience comatose? I'd rather watch Sonja get all her holes resurfaced.

I don't know if Luann was drunk, high, or dickmatized, but she was pretty hilarious at cocktail hour. And, the precise burns she's been launching at Beth have been delicious. 

Don't tell me about the kih'en, SHOW me the kih'en!

What the hell was up with Beth's face at the restaurant? It reminded me of this:

[pbutler111]

2 hours ago, sasha206 said:

Given that the book is based on their relationship "Vegan Chef Falls for Junk Food Addict..." seemingly, there's an expectation that the relationship is intact at least until published and promoted.  

I don't think permanancy in her view = marriage, nor is it in my world.  Not viewing this relationship as temporary -- like everything else in her life -- suggests that she wants a future with him.  She's gone from thinking of Adam as a cute, temporary fling that is an ego booster to thinking of him as someone she can settle down with despite their ages.  And I think for me, I'm bringing the realism from a 48 year-old perspective that, unless he's using her, the permanancy she's seeking isn't likely from this type of May/December relationship.

Again, I'm not suggesting that she isn't lovable, isn't desirable, isn't a fascinating person to be around.  He may very well be in love with her.  But I do think her perspective on him has changed and I do question her judgment.  Seek someone who has already had the life experience of having a child or the years in life to know that being childless is the only way you want to be.  That's the person you'll have a better chance of having permanence with.  I personally think she's setting herself up for a tremendous fall; she's lost the realism and self-awareness she had before.

What if she is setting herself up for a fall?  I don't know what her expectations are, nor do I know his.  But I do know that if you go into any relationship thinking that it's going to end eventually, so why bother, you're going to miss a few heartaches, perhaps, but also lots and lots and lots of joy.  

[Castina]

2 hours ago, Gaily said:

The Tipsy Girl battle rages on. Sonja is opening a Tipsy Girl lounge in NYC in July too:

http://pagesix.com/2016/06/19/sonja-morgans-latest-jab-in-booze-battle-with-bethenny-frankel/?_ga=1.50261030.1032332601.1454492440

I find this whole thing hilarious because, for me at least, if this wasn't a storyline on RHNY and Bethenny wasn't being such a bitch over the whole thing I would have filed Tipsy Girl in my "whatever" file along with all the other products these women try to sell (which includes B's processed food).  But if I ever do actually see a bottle of Tipsy Girl somewhere I'll snatch that up so fast.  Bethenny isn't as clever as she thinks.  

Edited June 20, 2016 by Castina

[Pop Tart]

Quote

I think "got out of her book contract" means she never met her deadline to produce some writing for a book and was dropped by her publisher.

After watching Carole last season and her total inability to get something written for her publisher - which led to them dumping her - I'm becoming even more of a believer in Aviva's gossip that Carole had a ghost writer for What Remains and The Widow's Guide. Not that the stories and emotions aren't hers, but given what she's been showing us, I'm convinced that she had someone else doing the work of writing. She just doesn't seem to have any ability to buckle down to do the really hard part and write the book. Evident last season and very evident this season with her collaboration with Adam.

And the thing is, there's nothing wrong with having a ghost writer, it's just that she's held herself out as the "real" writer of the group and so far I see little evidence of that.

[motorcitymom65]

8 minutes ago, Castina said:

I find this whole thing hilarious because, for me at least, if this wasn't a storyline on RHNY and Bethenny wasn't being such a bitch over the whole thing I would have filed Tipsy Girl in my "whatever" file along with all the other products these women try to sell (which includes B's processed food).  But if I ever do actually see a bottle of Tipsy Girl somewhere I'll snatch that up so fast.  Bethenny isn't as clever as she thinks.  

My bet is you will never see it. 

[Castina]

Most likely.  But if it does, I´ll buy it ;)

[RHJunkie]

2 hours ago, sasha206 said:

Given that the book is based on their relationship "Vegan Chef Falls for Junk Food Addict..." seemingly, there's an expectation that the relationship is intact at least until published and promoted.  

I don't think permanancy in her view = marriage, nor is it in my world.  Not viewing this relationship as temporary -- like everything else in her life -- suggests that she wants a future with him.  She's gone from thinking of Adam as a cute, temporary fling that is an ego booster to thinking of him as someone she can settle down with despite their ages.  And I think for me, I'm bringing the realism from a 48 year-old perspective that, unless he's using her, the permanancy she's seeking isn't likely from this type of May/December relationship.

Again, I'm not suggesting that she isn't lovable, isn't desirable, isn't a fascinating person to be around.  He may very well be in love with her.  But I do think her perspective on him has changed and I do question her judgment.  Seek someone who has already had the life experience of having a child or the years in life to know that being childless is the only way you want to be.  That's the person you'll have a better chance of having permanence with.  I personally think she's setting herself up for a tremendous fall; she's lost the realism and self-awareness she had before.

While relationships of a significant age difference where the woman is the elder of the two aren't common, it's also not unheard of but there are obvious considerations. Carole had mentioned in the past about Adam will eventually settle down, get married and have kids. Maybe instead of assuming that he wants all of those things and therefore they can't have a future together, perhaps she means that she'll be open to that discussion and possibility. Carole doesn't strike me as someone who allows herself to be emotionally vulnerable and maybe she made a judgment about their relationship without really giving Adam any say on what their future holds. I would think the biggest sticking point is whether Adam would want biological children and whether Carole wants any children at all. But I took her new perspective to mean that she'll simply enjoy the relationship in the present and if it comes to that discussion and desire to possibly want more, she'll deal with it at that point rather than just assume that at some point she HAS to give up the man that she likes and enjoys being with. It may seem like she's setting herself up for heartbreak but just like any relationship, you have be willing to be somewhat vulnerable if there's any real good chance of making something work.

Edited June 20, 2016 by RHJunkie

[Almost 3000]

2 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

My bet is you will never see it. 

I loved the "do-it-yourself" peel and stick round labels on the bottle. So wedding favor quality.

[teapot]

On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 8:54 PM, izabella said:

Midwest here, and after much repetition, I finally figured out that I drop the "e" and pronounce it "kitn"

Boston, same here "kit'n" I  guess.

 

(but I deliberately pronounce my "r's" so maybe you can't go by me??)

[teapot]

On ‎6‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 11:25 AM, ryebread said:

 

But at age 40+, being serious and saying something like: "I'm just a small town girl, living in a lonely world.  I took the midnight train going anywhere..."  or describing myself in the intro of my book as a "junk food eating girl" at age 52 and having my heart stolen by her vegan? - Nah. Imo, sounds dumb.

 

I used to call myself a "girl" and a "princess".  now I have grown into a "Queen" or "Mama."

(people look at me really strangely but whatevs!!)

[teapot]

On ‎6‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 0:58 PM, njbchlover said:

I seriously have no problem with the way Carole, or anyone for that matter,  pronounces "kitten", but I cringe whenever I hear ANY of the housewives say the word "texts"!!  Why do they ALL (over all the franchises) insist on trying to pronounce that word correctly, instead of just simply saying "text messages", which is much easier???  

off topic, sorry!  what is the past tense of "text?"  like, I'd say "oh, mr teapot texted me" but I feel like everyone says "my husband text me yesterday and..."

drives me batshit insane crazy NUTS!!

[zoeysmom]

Oh Ramona wrote a blog.  The dumb bitch can't even absorb a video.   http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-8/blogs/ramona-singer/ramona-singer-why-am-i-even-trying  Luann never said she stole Tom from Ramona.  Luann said, Ramona wanted to go out with Tom. 

Ramona correcting Luann for being "low and demeaning" for how Luann characterized Sonja and Tom's relationship.  Does Ramona watch the show?  Does she remember "squirter" or "brothel" or what she said about Mario and Luan?  Ramona is not trying to help Luann, she is not her friend, she never has been, she was trying to ruin Luann's love high.  Ramona was put off about how Luann acted about being in love, maybe she should reflect back on how she behaves on vacations.  She seems to have a lot of unbridled enthusiasm during vacation. 

Bottom line is Ramona position is she would not go out with someone Sonja went out with.  Those are Ramona standards and it does not make someone wrong if they don't cotton to her notions of love and dating.  It is a sad standard, she may eliminate someone who is her "soulmate". 

[izabella]

I don't know what is wrong with the brains or mouths of the Ho's across the franchises that they are unable to say it correctly, but the rules of grammar and conjugation do apply to the word text!

Text, texts, texted, texting...

[izabella]

2 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Ramona correcting Luann for being "low and demeaning" for how Luann characterized Sonja and Tom's relationship.  Does Ramona watch the show?  Does she remember "squirter" or "brothel" or what she said about Mario and Luan?  Ramona is not trying to help Luann, she is not her friend, she never has been, she was trying to ruin Luann's love high.  Ramona was put off about how Luann acted about being in love, maybe she should reflect back on how she behaves on vacations.  She seems to have a lot of unbridled enthusiasm during vacation.

AND how she acted all sanctimonious and smug about her perfect marriage to Mario.  First, she dissed Lu about marrying an older man, then she smugly smugged when Lu was getting divorced, she proclaimed far and wide how awesome her marriage was, forced us to see that horrific and pathetic seduction scene in their bedroom to show how in luv she and Mario are (which made me want to bleach my eyes!), renewed her vows with the cheater while he was singing songs for another woman, and now, after her divorce, she lays claim to every man she ever had a dinner with, and is all jelly about Lu getting engaged and is seeking to burst Lu's happy bubble by throwing everything she can at Lu.  Sorry, Ramona, you made your shit sandwich and now you have to eat it.

[straightshooter]

On 6/18/2016 at 6:13 AM, mwell345 said:

I still wonder if the alienation of LuAnn and Sonja has anything to do with the fact that they held out for more money. If this is true, Bethenny clearly wasn't happy

http://www.realitytea.com/2015/11/20/bethenny-frankel-says-real-housewives-new-york-easily-replaceable-ramona-singer-luann-de-lesseps-sonja-morgan-officially-back/

Oh, it absolutely does, if you ask me.  Doing that put huge bullseyes on their backs - I think that was definitely the last straw with LuAnn for Bethenny - the fact that she had THE NERVE to think she was worth more money meant that she dared to consider herself an equal, and that shit just wasn't going to fly. Then, once they started filming again, the blatant ass-kissing annoyed her even more.  She finally blew after hearing enough of LuAnn's little comments that implied a general sense of superiority  - such as her "mentoring" of Sonja.

I don't think she felt threatened by Sonja or Ramona,though - even with the Tipsy Girl thing - that just served as a convenient reason to shut Sonja down (and out) completely.  With Ramona, it's different - she drives her nuts, but she's not a threat - she's just that ol' annoying gnat, and Bethenny knows that there's no way Ramona would go head to head with her - The Apologizer will always be submissive when it comes to Bethenny.  She has a healthy fear of her, and both of them know it.

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, Pop Tart said:

After watching Carole last season and her total inability to get something written for her publisher - which led to them dumping her - I'm becoming even more of a believer in Aviva's gossip that Carole had a ghost writer for What Remains and The Widow's Guide. Not that the stories and emotions aren't hers, but given what she's been showing us, I'm convinced that she had someone else doing the work of writing. She just doesn't seem to have any ability to buckle down to do the really hard part and write the book. Evident last season and very evident this season with her collaboration with Adam.

And the thing is, there's nothing wrong with having a ghost writer, it's just that she's held herself out as the "real" writer of the group and so far I see little evidence of that.

I 100% believe she had loads of help writing her books. No doubt in my mind. Will I go as far as saying ghostwriter? As much as I can't stand the wench I won't however.... I was never happy with how she tried to downplay the real parts that go into getting a book to print. Aviva's mistake was using the term ghostwriter which I understand because Carole's the one that shot that arrow first however what I think happened was that after Carole started throwing that around and made it her business to deem Aviva's efforts less than true author worthiness Aviva tried to use her own words against her. Aviva's defense was to take the offense and try to determine just how much Carole contributed to the publishing process and whether it was all that different than Aviva's experience. No, maybe a ghostwriter wasn't used but my take is that a lot of hands and eyes and people have a touch in the finished product. I think, especially after Aviva herself went through the process and saw just how many people are involved in getting a finished product out to the public, it wasn't too hard for Aviva to envision multiple parties assisting Carole and that she didn't actually push the book out of her vagina as she originally claimed. That it took, editors and even (I don't know what they are called but not quite ghostwriters but something in between where they help contextualize and map out a good flow of progression) to get that book completed.

Now of course I'm sure the story is hers, the wit and the words and sentiment but then there's the structure, the foundation, the mapping out of the storyline flow. Rearranging, rewording.. Yeah, I think Aviva's approach was to highlight the true process that much like raising a child (using Carole's own comparison) it takes a village so in her mind Carole was a bit preachy about soley holding the title author since she didn't create the book all by her lonesome. I think Aviva should have stuck to the more subtle points that even the most experience authors receive redirection and guidelines and suggestions and don't just come up with a perfect product all on their own so for her to be so condescending while having similar processes go on in her own publications and while having such helpful resources at her disposal just reeks of arrogance and misrepresentation all the while trying to cut someone else down for their same efforts. God how I wish Aviva executed this crusade properly. Such a missed opportunity.

Sorry, I was just in the Carole thread, forgot i came back here so if the mods want to move it, fine by me. I putting this response over there.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Yours Truly]

19 minutes ago, straightshooter said:

Oh, it absolutely does, if you ask me.  Doing that put huge bullseyes on their backs - I think that was definitely the last straw with LuAnn for Bethenny - the fact that she had THE NERVE to think she was worth more money meant that she dared to consider herself an equal, and that shit just wasn't going to fly. Then, once they started filming again, the blatant ass-kissing annoyed her even more.  She finally blew after hearing enough of LuAnn's little comments that implied a general sense of superiority  - such as her "mentoring" of Sonja.

I don't think she felt threatened by Sonja or Ramona,though - even with the Tipsy Girl thing - that just served as a convenient reason to shut Sonja down (and out) completely.  With Ramona, it's different - she drives her nuts, but she's not a threat - she's just that ol' annoying gnat, and Bethenny knows that there's no way Ramona would go head to head with her - The Apologizer will always be submissive when it comes to Bethenny.  She has a healthy fear of her, and both of them know it.

I wonder if during the re-negotiations Lu threw in her participation/presence in the launching of SkinnyGirl???? In order to highlight her veteran status and how she's been there since day one and for it all so of course she should be making as much as Beth?  I always go back to that comment Beth made at the dinner table when she said you were telling everyone (in town?) or something like that and it just didn't seem like she was just talking about that little scene with Heather going on about the inscription. I kept thinking to myself WHO? WHO the fuck is Lu trying to convince? I thought it was regulated to that one moment last season (which I am ready to believe is enough to set these crazy bitches off) but Beth's comment just sounded like it was something that happened recently and in some other setting. That would explain why Beth was extra "brand new" with her annoyance over that stupid little gripe from last season. Cause it wasn't about that scene but about Lu trying to use Skinnygirl as a point while trying to negotiate a higher paycheck...?? I can't believe I just made an argument for the wench Beth but that would make waaaaaaaayyyyyyy more sense.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Yours Truly

[islandgal140]

4 hours ago, sasha206 said:

When I say "lovelorn" I don't mean that she's walking around like a wounded puppy so in love with Adam she can't see straight.  Lovelorn might have been the wrong word to use.

I just see her as a woman who is in a relationship with a signficant age difference who is doing eveyrthing she can to give it permanency -- by her own words.  She lamented her expiration date (5 summers) and then in a couple of episodes later, she's talking about how everything in her life is temporary...so she wants to have permanency with Adam.   According her own words, she got out of a contract to essentially write a book with Adam.  

With age-appropriate Russ, she seemed blase about the whole relationship.

I'm not saying Adam isn't "smitten" but it wouldn't surprise me if tomorrow, he meets up with a beautiful woman his age, breaks up with Carole, gets engaged 6 months later, gets married and has babies.  Carole seemed to realize that he will likely move on so he can experience the things she can't give him, and then suddenly, the departure of adopted kitten makes her decide she wants more with Adam.

I don't know.  As a 48 year-old woman, I can't imagine how you date an attractive man nearly have your age and expect anything more than a temporary fling, no matter how in love with you he seems at the time.  So I feel like on some level, by tying him to a book, she's subconsciously tying him to her.

Earlier this summer Adam was in a plane crash that he luckily survived. I've wondering how that will impact their relationship. I could see it as a bonding experience for one or both (especially Carole as she lost 2 good friends in a plane crash) or a revelation of wanting something different/more.

[Mrs peel]

On June 17, 2016 at 7:51 PM, ichbin said:

Although it might not be your personal experience, it is in fact a recognized thing in some dialects.  I grew surrounded by people who pronounce things like that and still do it myself.  

From an article about New England English:  "This form of t-glottalization (especially the /tən/ form) is found commonly in other parts of the country as well (including General American), like in the word "Britain" (sometimes represented along the lines of Brih'in); however, the characteristic is most prevalent in New England."   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_English (sorry it' isn't a more authoritative link, but I don't have the time or interest in looking up better sources at the moment).  If you note the map in that page, you'll see upstate NY, in the area where Carole's grandparents lived, is included with southwestern New England, which is where I grew up.  

So, as much as I would love to think she's just being Carole Cutesy, I think she just has a regional dialect, just like most of us do no matter where we live in the world or whatever language we may speak.
 

I don't want to continue an argument, but two things....Carole is not from "upstate" NY, and the NYC tri-state area is not considered to be part of New England.  Rockland County, where she and I grew up, is just north of NYC, on the western side of the Hudson River.  Six hours south of the NY border with Quebec.

[ryebread]

1 hour ago, Castina said:

I find this whole thing hilarious because, for me at least, if this wasn't a storyline on RHNY and Bethenny wasn't being such a bitch over the whole thing I would have filed Tipsy Girl in my "whatever" file along with all the other products these women try to sell (which includes B's processed food).  But if I ever do actually see a bottle of Tipsy Girl somewhere I'll snatch that up so fast.  Bethenny isn't as clever as she thinks.  

Wow.  The awning is up and it's going to open in July???  I kind of love the logo. 

When I lived in NYC there was a bar/restaurant/lounge called "Nell's"  It was like the less famous cousin of Elaine's.  Anyway, there was an actual woman that was the hostess and owner and her name was Nell.  She wafted all around making sure the patrons were happy. There was nightly entertainment - comedy, caberet. etc.  The décor was like a dark, Upper East Side townhouse.  That's the kind of establishment I see for Sonja.  She makes for a good madam/proprietor. It would be a good way to keep her off the streets and make some money. I think she would be very good at something like that. She should have spared herself the grief and just called it, "Sonja's"

[DelicateDee]

On June 17, 2016 at 4:35 PM, ElDosEquis said:

Men don't shave their pits. When you cook, you are always reaching over open pots of food - that and he should tie his hair back.

 You are not necessarily ALWAYS reaching over open pots of food when cooking.  It would depend on how many burners you got going and if you do have several going at once, maybe they have covers on them.  But he was only baking one cake - I think - which wouldn't require any "reaching over".  Plus, he was only preparing food for himself and Carol AT HOME, not for the public or other guests, so he could cook in the nude if he so desired.

[zoeysmom]

44 minutes ago, izabella said:

AND how she acted all sanctimonious and smug about her perfect marriage to Mario.  First, she dissed Lu about marrying an older man, then she smugly smugged when Lu was getting divorced, she proclaimed far and wide how awesome her marriage was, forced us to see that horrific and pathetic seduction scene in their bedroom to show how in luv she and Mario are (which made me want to bleach my eyes!), renewed her vows with the cheater while he was singing songs for another woman, and now, after her divorce, she lays claim to every man she ever had a dinner with, and is all jelly about Lu getting engaged and is seeking to burst Lu's happy bubble by throwing everything she can at Lu.  Sorry, Ramona, you made your shit sandwich and now you have to eat it.

Remember when Ramona was "dating" Peter and he had been with Mario's squeeze Casey Dexter. The other women were delighting in reading about it in the bedroom and I think Heather brought it up at dinner.   If you are going to have a standard I would think one might "vet" a date/business partner about Casey. Ramona seems to have a lot of dates that go nowhere. 

The other thing that bugs me is Ramona has 50 girlfriends over for her birthday, I would find it unique if Ramona has not dated someone that one of her 50 friends has dated.  Of course to me, it is ridiculous for the 40-80 year old crowd to have to do a rundown of one night stands and casual dates.   Of course ex-wives, live-ins, long term relationships may be relevant, but why?  Luann is friends with Corte, the Count, Jacques and maybe she is that woman that remains friends with old loves.  More importantly isn't the purpose of dating finding out about someone?  If in the few dates Ramona had with Tom went nowhere, why even bring up who he dated.  Maybe Ramona talked throughout the dates and Tom never got a word in edgewise.  Or maybe 50 year old Tom had no desire to go further with 60 year old Ramona.

Neither Bethenny or Ramona were being "helpful" to Luann, they simply wanted to hurt her because try as they might they can't figure out why Luann continues to have a successful love life.  Most people consider it a major gaff to comment on someone's significant other only because in the event they marry and the friend who makes the comments may be exiled from the couple's life forever.  It is kind of an icky feeling be it Sonja having to mark her territory or Ramona (whose own daughter was appalled) to comment when someone is crazy in love.  It would be one thing off camera but Ramona is stating she made mention of the former girlfriend and the gold bracelet on camera, and Luann was not suppose to ask Tom about it.   Ramona needs a reality check-no one is buying that malarky.   

[Yours Truly]

Okay I just realized that there's a new blog from Carole. I thought I read it already but didnt and boy oh boy.

Can we just say that Carole NEVER misses an opportunity to remind everyone that everything is all just for laughs. That it ain't that serious. Is anyone else seeing the anvil in all of her blogs? Her undertone of smugness over being in on the joke as opposed to everyone else dumb enough to think the joke is rooted in any reality? Her need for disclaimers that point out the zero fucks she gives about anyone who isn't taking her blogs in the manner as it's intended which in all actuality isn't really clear. It's like she wants to get shit off her chest but she wants everyone to pretend that she's just having a good ole time and pretend that her comments and observations aren't rooted in some real life chip on her shoulder-itis. That's the part that really grates about her. She wants to play in the mud and call it something else AND she wants everyone to go along with this delusional charade or else you're the ridiculous one that doesn't get that she's just in RH's land and not actually living in her real world with gripes and behaviors that belong on the playground. I get that the reality show part of her life is her job and it's her intent to try to keep the experiences throughout filming in perspective but SHE FAILS MISERABLY in maintaining that balance so I really wish she would stop trying to sell the audience on how NOT invested she is in all of it. How little she cares about viewer reaction or how she comes across and I really need her to stop trying to tell the viewers how ridiculous WE are because we take what we see and form our opinions. Bitch, you're not fooling anyone so stop trying and just write the damn blogs without all the bytheby crapola. 

Next: Now to prove the above. Is anyone noticing how EVERY BLOG has to address Lu in length? It's one thing if Carole were to address all the housewives and make such in depth observations as well as form personal opinions about each and every situation but it seems she saves that play by play for only Lu... In what seems to be ALL of her blogs so far... Hmmmmmmm. This is the total opposite of zero fucks. I get that her issue with Lu isn't really resolved but having a blog dedicated to outlining everything Lu is doing in each episode and then tying it back to her issue with her seems to be a tad bit extreme... I mean it can't be just me who sees how obsessed Carole seems to be over our dear Countess. I mean, it's getting rather psychotic if you ask me.

"Who, who me? What? Countess who? Oh, pish posh I barely even know she's on TV whenever she's in a scene.. but did you see? did you see? She skipped out of the room and didn't pay... I thumbed through her book, (it's pretty worn and weathered you see, I've referenced it numerous times)  and didn't see, I didn't see where she put it in her GODDAMN BOOK! She didn't include it! Nowhere in the book. Nowhere! HYYYPPPPOOOOCCRRIIITTTTT!!!"  "What do you mean if I'm all right?... Did you not see the disclaimer?? Tongue. In. Cheek. People.... TONGUE. IN. CHEEEEEEKKKKKK!"

Carole's a loon. LOL

Edited June 20, 2016 by Yours Truly

[quaintirene]

Ramona also needs to hold her stomach in.  That awful short pink/red caftan-y thing she wore in the Berkshires looked real well-filled round the middle.

I'm seriously not sure why Bethenny took off after Sonja. But I think she is Mean-Girling Luann to curry favor with her pal Princess Radzi.  Maybe Andy Cohen has told her that ratings are down and they needed to really ramp this season up.  Whatever the reason it's unattractive and hard to watch for me.

[DelicateDee]

On June 17, 2016 at 6:48 PM, HumblePi said:

Right, 'Brit (glottall) ne'. By jove, now you've go'it

She probably does pronounce it 'Bri'ne', as do many.  I have friends with relatives with that have this name and they say Bri'ne, or maybe with an ever so soft pronunciation of the T.  In any case, it comes off as a 2 syllable name instead of the 3 syllable word that it really is.  And these are folks from the Midwest, west coast, south and not just N.E. where I am originally from.  I don't understand the desire to have to be right about this and to make snark about it when it's already been determined that it's a regional thing or maybe it's just the Correct way to pronounce some words.  If you take a word with 2 Ts and actually pronounce both Ts hard, it comes off as sounding like two words, i.e. kiT Ten, coT Ten, etc.. as you actually have to pause to hear the 2 Ts.  I don't hear anybody saying those words like that.  And I was taught the phonics way also, albeit in a public, non-denominational neighborhood schools in Massachusetts.

[NewDigs]

Maybe we need a poll! I vote glottal.

LuLu was faboo this episode! Loved how she swept in and took over the B-meet. And her Armani looked fine. imho

Hey Bethy. When you invite someone out, you pay! 

Enough about your, or anyone else's, private parts. I'm tired of your frat-boy "humor". And you can take your zero fucks and...

[Yours Truly]

3 minutes ago, NewDigs said:

Maybe we need a poll! I vote glottal.

LuLu was faboo this episode! Loved how she swept in and took over the B-meet. And her Armani looked fine. imho

Hey Bethy. When you invite someone out, you pay! 

Enough about your, or anyone else's, private parts. I'm tired of your frat-boy "humor". And you can take your zero fucks and...

..... Give them back to Carole cause she is definitely full of more fucks than Lu the squirter....if you go by her blogs for each episode.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Yours Truly

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, ryebread said:

Wow.  The awning is up and it's going to open in July???  I kind of love the logo. 

When I lived in NYC there was a bar/restaurant/lounge called "Nell's"  It was like the less famous cousin of Elaine's.  Anyway, there was an actual woman that was the hostess and owner and her name was Nell.  She wafted all around making sure the patrons were happy. There was nightly entertainment - comedy, caberet. etc.  The décor was like a dark, Upper East Side townhouse.  That's the kind of establishment I see for Sonja.  She makes for a good madam/proprietor. It would be a good way to keep her off the streets and make some money. I think she would be very good at something like that. She should have spared herself the grief and just called it, "Sonja's"

It isn't "Sonja's" restaurant or even her drink, she is only the face of it. Peter has real partners for both and tried to get Ramona as the face initially but rumor has it that she declined out of fear of incurring Bethenny's wrath over it. LOL

I do think Sonja would be a great hostess at a restaurant but she is too lazy to be the owner of one. LOL

[Umbelina]

6 hours ago, pbutler111 said:

A book isn't a child.  You can write a book with someone and then quite easily walk away and never see or speak to them again in your life.  Maybe I'm misreading things, but I didn't take Carole's conversation with Bethenny to mean that Carole is all of a sudden desperate to get married again and settle down -- after decades of being against remarrying, and even breaking up with a boyfriend she loved because he wanted to get married and she didn't.  What I heard her saying is that she always goes into things with the idea that they will be temporary, and actively puts herself in situations that are, by nature, temporary, but she's now starting to see the importance of at least allowing for permanency in her life.  It's not that she suddenly wants to marry Adam, but that she no longer wants to be someone who focuses on inevitable endings rather than on present happiness.  At least that's the way I heard it.

Exactly. 

6 hours ago, Gaily said:

The Tipsy Girl battle rages on. Sonja is opening a Tipsy Girl lounge in NYC in July too:

http://pagesix.com/2016/06/19/sonja-morgans-latest-jab-in-booze-battle-with-bethenny-frankel/?_ga=1.50261030.1032332601.1454492440

Sonja isn't opening squat.  It's not her wine, it's not her bar, she's simply the shill.  That bar was supposed to open several times already.  We shall see!  I kind of hope it does open sometime, but he still has no chef?  Ha!

3 hours ago, pbutler111 said:

What if she is setting herself up for a fall?  I don't know what her expectations are, nor do I know his.  But I do know that if you go into any relationship thinking that it's going to end eventually, so why bother, you're going to miss a few heartaches, perhaps, but also lots and lots and lots of joy.  

Yeah, I agree.  I think there are commitment people who are always looking for permanence in relationships, and frankly, they are the majority.  Other kinds of relationships exist though, and other types of people.  I thought it was huge that she realized she was specifically setting up impermanence.  That doesn't necessarily mean she will change, but it is a significant self realization.

1 hour ago, ryebread said:

Wow.  The awning is up and it's going to open in July???  I kind of love the logo. 

When I lived in NYC there was a bar/restaurant/lounge called "Nell's"  It was like the less famous cousin of Elaine's.  Anyway, there was an actual woman that was the hostess and owner and her name was Nell.  She wafted all around making sure the patrons were happy. There was nightly entertainment - comedy, caberet. etc.  The décor was like a dark, Upper East Side townhouse.  That's the kind of establishment I see for Sonja.  She makes for a good madam/proprietor. It would be a good way to keep her off the streets and make some money. I think she would be very good at something like that. She should have spared herself the grief and just called it, "Sonja's"

When RHNY premiered this year the Shyster had a Facebook page about the bar/restaurant, and it was going to open then.  I'll be shocked if he ever gets it open, still no chef?  Guess he can't find a chef to work for a percentage?  If it really was Sonja's project, I agree, that would be a great name, or even "Sexy J."  She devalued herself by hooking up with this loser.  Basically, she is simply the face of the project, and she's only that because he could get free publicity on RHNY by choosing a name that would, he hoped, piss off Bethenny and thus give him lots of show time.

Bethenny check mated him.  She had one scene with Sonja and spelled it out for her.  That's it, she's not filming with her again, which I think was a great move.  The only scenes they would have would be about the Shyster.  Bravo is still giving Sonja plenty of scenes about Tipsy Girl, just not with Bethenny.

---

As far as "ghost writer" or "editor" I think we saw a great example of that with To Kill A Mockingbird, one of my favorite books.  Harper Lee wrote a quite different book, which her "estate" just cashed in on releasing.  Go Set A Watchman was apparently the original submission.  I actually like both books, but there is no question that the editor instructing her to go back and write it from Scout's point of view made a good novel great.  Editors are not ghost writers though, and I believe Carole wrote her first book, and when she said she went over every suggested change word by word with her editor I believe her.

 

From Ramona's blog:  http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-8/blogs/ramona-singer/ramona-singer-why-am-i-even-trying

Quote

I could not believe Tom did not tell me that he was lovers with Sonja. I never would've gone out with him had I known that information. Sonja never told me until after the fact. I had no clue that he was one of her lovers. Before Luann even went out with Tom, Sonja and I went to lunch at Barneys. She asked me if I was dating anyone in particular. I shared with her I was dating a nice man from Conneticut ironically enough also named Tom. I told her I also went on dates with Tom, but it never went anywhere and we were just friends.Sonja then revealed to me she had been lovers with Tom. I asked Sonja why she never shared this information with me. Sonja said, "Well I read in the press that you were dating him, and I thought maybe you liked him and he liked you, and I didn't want to get involved and ruin anything for you and him." I told Sonja that she should have told me as soon as she knew we were dating. I told sonja I would never get involved with someone that she was with.

S.T.D.

Honestly, that's exactly where my mind went when I read this.  Anyone else?

Edited June 20, 2016 by Umbelina

[HumblePi]

7 minutes ago, NewDigs said:

Maybe we need a poll! I vote glottal.

LuLu was faboo this episode! Loved how she swept in and took over the B-meet. And her Armani looked fine. imho

Hey Bethy. When you invite someone out, you pay! 

Enough about your, or anyone else's, private parts. I'm tired of your frat-boy "humor". And you can take your zero fucks and...

'glot'el' me in then.

[ElDosEquis]

6 hours ago, pbutler111 said:

, as though trying to convince anyone listening that they're still young and vital because Aunt Flo is making regular visits.

I never get tired of her in the "Progressive Insurance" commercials, how she wears white all the time IS pretty funny......

[sasha206]

4 hours ago, pbutler111 said:

What if she is setting herself up for a fall?  I don't know what her expectations are, nor do I know his.  But I do know that if you go into any relationship thinking that it's going to end eventually, so why bother, you're going to miss a few heartaches, perhaps, but also lots and lots and lots of joy.  

Yes, 25 year age gaps always work out well!

Maybe you're a hopeless romantic, but I wouldn't go into a relationship in which I knew there was a huge black mark against it from the outset.  I wouldn't go into a relationship in which I had to worry every time I saw a wrinkle on my aging face and compare that to my youthful mate.  Or had to plump my face full of fillers to keep aging at bay.   Maybe you're optimistic, but I don't think a guy who will reach his prime in his mid-30s is going to be as enthralled with her when she hits 60.

Yes, she's brilliant, exciting, adorable, secure in herself (maybe).  But you can't fence time.  She wistfully admitted that a few episodes ago with her "5 summers" comment (which seems generous at best in terms of her relationship).  If you date someone closer to your age, you don't wistfully talk about 5 summers left.  

I think she started this relationship with him thinking it was just a fun fling.  And now she's looking at it being more permanent.  Therefore, I think she will set herself up for a fall when he suddently meets the 30 year-old beauty who saddles up to him and offers him just about everything Carole does.  

Edited June 20, 2016 by sasha206

[ElDosEquis]

4 minutes ago, pbutler111 said:

If the character's name was Aunt Flo, then, yes, I guess it would be funny.  But, since it's not...

 

I laughed.

[sasha206]

3 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

While relationships of a significant age difference where the woman is the elder of the two aren't common, it's also not unheard of but there are obvious considerations. Carole had mentioned in the past about Adam will eventually settle down, get married and have kids. Maybe instead of assuming that he wants all of those things and therefore they can't have a future together, perhaps she means that she'll be open to that discussion and possibility. Carole doesn't strike me as someone who allows herself to be emotionally vulnerable and maybe she made a judgment about their relationship without really giving Adam any say on what their future holds. I would think the biggest sticking point is whether Adam would want biological children and whether Carole wants any children at all. But I took her new perspective to mean that she'll simply enjoy the relationship in the present and if it comes to that discussion and desire to possibly want more, she'll deal with it at that point rather than just assume that at some point she HAS to give up the man that she likes and enjoys being with. It may seem like she's setting herself up for heartbreak but just like any relationship, you have be willing to be somewhat vulnerable if there's any real good chance of making something work.

That's a good analysis.

However, because she's so blase about relationships, to me, I think that's her publicly admitting she wants that with him.

[ElDosEquis]

I 'dated' a woman who was 17 years older that I was.

We were together for 13 years and we spoke about getting married. I wanted kids, she was past her expiration date, so when the story of marriage, kids and other grown up shit came up, we decided against marriage (Another reason was her daughter hated me because I was tall, had dark hair and was schtupping her mom).

Age is just a number and in NO way determines how a relationship will work. THAT is something you can't put a number on.