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Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

Minneapple

By Minneapple
in Game Of Thrones

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stagmania

stagmania

2 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

Great interview in Variety with Alan Taylor about "Beyond the Wall". It's good to know the creative team is not afraid of the nitpicking (it's nitpicking in my opinion, maybe I'm wrong) and focuses on one of the important things (if we are talking about how functional is the narrative) : 

"In terms of the emotional experience, ...."

This.

Eh, that's a copout for people too lazy to get their narrative in order. A good story offers both the emotional experience and a plot with character motivations that make sense.

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TxanGoddess
TxanGoddess

First, Rhaegar Targaryen asked Lyanna Stark, love me tender, but Brandon Stark said, little sister don't you.  Lyanna's response was that, she can't help falling in love.  But then Robert Baratheon ha

WearyTraveler
WearyTraveler

I don't get all the competition.  "My character is better than yours".... Don't get it. And I'm sick and tired of people calling EVERYTHING a trope.  I see the word and I cringe. Writing, televis

Minneapple
Minneapple

If that's what they were going for in that scene, I completely misinterpreted it. I saw Sansa smiling when the lords all declared for Jon, then looking worried when she looked at Littlefinger. Worried

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Blonde Gator

Blonde Gator

2 hours ago, nightowl1989 said:

Can someone help me out- I'm looking for the link that led to the spoilers all combined for all episodes - included lads, friki, and one other. I know it was posted here, but can't find it anywhere. It was a site where you could click each link and it led to all spoilers for each episode?

 

Thanks for any help!

Check around page 71 on this thread..  I e-mailed my step daughter with those a while back, and that's what I told her then.

SimoneS

SimoneS

(edited)
15 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Eh, that's a copout for people too lazy to get their narrative in order. A good story offers both the emotional experience and a plot with character motivations that make sense.

Exactly. I love the show and usually am not difficult to please, but this plot device of the wight capture has really rubbed me the wrong way and has lessened my enjoyment of this season.

Edited by SimoneS
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screamin

screamin

34 minutes ago, GraceK said:

I'm actually pretty excited for Dany and Cersei to meet. Hopefully the episode does it justice because finally having these 2 women meet should be pretty epic.

 

i always thought that Dany was the "younger, more beautiful queen" that was in the prophecy, NOT Margery. 

The prophecy has been screwed up completely by the show. Dany cannot be said to have taken all that Cersei loves; certainly Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella cannot be laid at her door.

Blonde Gator

Blonde Gator

34 minutes ago, GraceK said:

I'm actually pretty excited for Dany and Cersei to meet. Hopefully the episode does it justice because finally having these 2 women meet should be pretty epic.

 

i always thought that Dany was the "younger, more beautiful queen" that was in the prophecy, NOT Margery. 

It only matters what Cersei thinks, and on that score Danaerys is really going to blow Cersei's mind.  Old (h/t Olenna) Cersei was jealous of Sansa first, then Maergary, and I can't wait to see the epic fear and terror in Cersei's eyes when she sees the Dragon Queen.  I'm sure we'll here Cersei spit some epic nastiness about foreign whores, etc. 

*Taps Varys on the shoulder*  Who is the Mad Queen now, Spider?

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OhOkayWhat

OhOkayWhat

(edited)
28 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Eh, that's a copout for people too lazy to get their narrative in order. A good story offers both the emotional experience and a plot with character motivations that make sense.

And this season offers plenty of both things. As I wrote in other thread : This episode ("Beyond the Wall") shows one of the reasons why I find this season so interesting: the heart in conflict with itself. The characters struggle with their own doubts, their own feelings. The trauma and consequences. Lots and lots of character building. 

Edited by OhOkayWhat
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Edith

Edith

(edited)
14 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

It only matters what Cersei thinks, and on that score Danaerys is really going to blow Cersei's mind.  Old (h/t Olenna) Cersei was jealous of Sansa first, then Maergary, and I can't wait to see the epic fear and terror in Cersei's eyes when she sees the Dragon Queen.  I'm sure we'll here Cersei spit some epic nastiness about foreign whores, etc. 

*Taps Varys on the shoulder*  Who is the Mad Queen now, Spider?

Cersei was never jealous of Sansa. She considered Sansa too stupid to actually be a threat for her.

But yeah Cersei/Dany is going to be great! 

Edited by Edith
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GraceK

GraceK

11 minutes ago, screamin said:

The prophecy has been screwed up completely by the show. Dany cannot be said to have taken all that Cersei loves; certainly Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella cannot be laid at her door.

Cersei: When will I wed the prince?
Maggy: Never. You will wed the king.
Cersei: I will be queen, though?
Maggy: Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear.[3]

 

I always feel that last line applies to Daenarys. A younger, more beautiful to cast her down? She  was literally heading to Wesferos to cast down the  current queen ( cersei) and take the throne. The throne, and the power behind it, is what Cersei really holds dear. The part about her three children dying was separate from the Queen part. She assumed it was Margery cause she married her sons and had influence over them , and was Queen momentarily. But IMO it's always been Dany that has been the real threat to her, especially now that Cersei is The Queen all on her own. Does that make sense? Just my interpretation:)

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OhOkayWhat

OhOkayWhat

(edited)
17 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Exactly. I love the show and usually am not difficult to please, but this plot device of the wight capture has really rubbed me the wrong way and has lessened my enjoyment of this season.

In my case, I think the Wight Hunt is a brilliant narrative decision. And it's tied to the core of the main arc of the show.

Edited by OhOkayWhat
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Blonde Gator

Blonde Gator

18 minutes ago, Edith said:

Cersei was never jealous of Sansa. She considered Sansa too stupid to actually be a threat for her.

But yeah Cersei/Dany is going to be great! 

Cersei was jealous of everyone who was younger and more beautiful and a potential queen.  Sansa was just not an immediate threat to Cersei, as Maergary became, because Miss Tyrell cut her teeth on Southern politics.  But that prophecy looms over Cersei's head at all times.  I expect some super off-the-wall lines and looks and batshit crazy from Cersei this week.   

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Francie

Francie

1 hour ago, GraceK said:

I'm actually pretty excited for Dany and Cersei to meet. Hopefully the episode does it justice because finally having these 2 women meet should be pretty epic.

 

i always thought that Dany was the "younger, more beautiful queen" that was in the prophecy, NOT Margery. 

I don't think Dany or Margaery are "younger, more beautiful."  Mainly because physical beauty is subjective. So it's not about looks. 

There is only one character on this show who is tagged with the name "Beauty."  And someone unwittingly mentioned it in this past episode (episode 6). 

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Meredith Quill

Meredith Quill

1 minute ago, Francie said:

I don't think Dany or Margaery are "younger, more beautiful."  Mainly because physical beauty is subjective. So it's not about looks. 

There is only one character on this show who is tagged with the name "Beauty."  And someone unwittingly mentioned it in this past episode (episode 6). 

Younger is obviously a given. Pretty sure it's from Cersei's pov of who is "more beautiful" than she, I doubt she would rate Brienne as competition in that regard, (although imo, Gwendoline is quite lovely irl).

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GraceK

GraceK

(edited)
7 minutes ago, Francie said:

I don't think Dany or Margaery are "younger, more beautiful."  Mainly because physical beauty is subjective. So it's not about looks. 

There is only one character on this show who is tagged with the name "Beauty."  And someone unwittingly mentioned it in this past episode (episode 6). 

It's definitely subjective I will say that. Cersei's horrible personality, sadism, and altogether repulsive behavior has made her ugly to me for a long time. Credit to Lena Heady for being able to do that :)

Daenarys, to me, is 1000 times more beautiful in spirit.

Edited by GraceK
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Blonde Gator

Blonde Gator

17 minutes ago, Francie said:

I don't think Dany or Margaery are "younger, more beautiful."  Mainly because physical beauty is subjective. So it's not about looks. 

There is only one character on this show who is tagged with the name "Beauty."  And someone unwittingly mentioned it in this past episode (episode 6). 

Hmmmmm.  Who do you think Euron believes is more beautiful? 

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SimoneS

SimoneS

(edited)
41 minutes ago, Francie said:

I don't think Dany or Margaery are "younger, more beautiful."  Mainly because physical beauty is subjective. So it's not about looks. 

It is about what Cersei thinks, not anyone in the audience. The prophecy is going to be seared in Cersei's mind when she sees Daenerys on Sunday.

Edited by SimoneS
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Francie

Francie

18 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

Younger is obviously a given. Pretty sure it's from Cersei's pov of who is "more beautiful" than she, I doubt she would rate Brienne as competition in that regard, (although imo, Gwendoline is quite lovely irl).

From Cersei's POV neither Margaery nor Daenerys would be more beautiful either. 

It's not from Cerei's, in any case. It's from Maggy's. And it's not going to be something up for debate. It's going to be a non-physical answer. It's not even going to be a "rate their soul" answer. It's going to be an "I told you so; the answer was right there under your nose" answer. 

7 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

Hmmmmm.  Who do you think Euron believes is more beautiful? 

Himself. 

Inquiry

Inquiry

(edited)

So, I read something on another board that I found interesting: what if Rhaegar was Azor Ahai? So, a lot of people assume AA/the Prince that Was Promised are the same people, but what if they're not? What if Jon himself is Lightbringer? Jon is the third child of Rhaegar and it took 3 attempts to create Lightbringer last time with the last attempt killing Nissa Nissa (in this case, Lyanna). In that case, maybe it's Dany who is the PtwP? I don't know, I just thought it was intriguing. 

Edited by Inquiry
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Meredith Quill

Meredith Quill

2 minutes ago, Francie said:

From Cersei's POV neither Margaery nor Daenerys would be more beautiful either. 

It's not from Cerei's, in any case. It's from Maggy's. And it's not going to be something up for debate. It's going to be a non-physical answer. It's not even going to be a "rate their soul" answer. It's going to be an "I told you so; the answer was right there under your nose" answer. 

It makes most sense from Cersei's POV. Maggy only prophesied what Cersei would experience, aka what Cersei would believe when the time comes. Otherwise, the prophecy would totally miss its mark as per the following scenario:

Cersei <prophecy running through her mind sees Daenerys or whoever > "Wait, she may be younger but she isn't more beautiful than me; screw you and your prophecy Maggy ha!"

I highly doubt Cersei is going to notice anything beyond the physical, she isn't that philosophical but much more literal and for the prophecy to work, it must align with Cersei's opinion.

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Francie

Francie

(edited)
7 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

It makes most sense from Cersei's POV. Maggy only prophesied what Cersei would experience, aka what Cersei would believe when the time comes. Otherwise, the prophecy would totally miss its mark as per the following scenario:

Cersei <prophecy running through her mind sees Daenerys or whoever > "Wait, she may be younger but she isn't more beautiful than me; screw you and your prophecy Maggy ha!"

I highly doubt Cersei is going to notice anything beyond the physical, she isn't that philosophical but much more literal and for the prophecy to work, it must align with Cersei's opinion.

I agree wholly that Cersei will concentrate on physical looks. But Cersei is positively incapable of seeing any other woman as physically more beautiful than she is. 

Edited by Francie
anamika

anamika

There's been some debate on the English here - queen you will be, until there comes another

The 'another' seems to imply that the person who takes down Cersei should be another queen. And the only queen left is Dany. Unless Sansa rebels against Jon and declares herself Queen in the North.

I don't see how it can be Brienne, Arya or anyone else unless they are a queen.

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Francie

Francie

That's the thing about prophecies. They are like a half-trained mule. The minute you think they can be useful, the moment you trust in them, they kick you in the head. 

We'll see. 

Cersei's pregnant. So she already thinks she's beaten the prophecy. 

I'm looking forward to seeing Lena playing the meet up, though.  

bunnyblue

bunnyblue

6 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I don't know why she would be invited since Jon is going to be there, it just seems like some contrived plot to get rid of Brienne.

Ding, ding, ding!! When the leak leaked, I was so confused as to why Sansa would be summoned to KL and WHO would summon her. Seriously, what purpose does the Lady of Winterfell serve in going? Why not invite other Northern lords then? A few weeks ago, I read speculation that it was Jon and Dany who extended the invite to her (and they got raked over the coals for being insensitive in summoning her to KL), but now we know they sure as hell did not since they've been too busy AND Sansa explicitly said she hasn't heard from Jon in weeks. Sansa receiving the raven is yet another nonsensical plot by D&D to include her in the major storyline, their disregard for simple logic, and, as you said, the need to get Brienne out of Winterfell AND to give her another scene with Jaime.

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anamika

anamika

25 minutes ago, bunnyblue said:

 Sansa receiving the raven is yet another nonsensical plot by D&D to include her in the major storyline, their disregard for simple logic, and, as you said, the need to get Brienne out of Winterfell AND to give her another scene with Jaime.

To add to this, according to spoilers, apparently Jon does not even ask Brienne why she is there. But Brienne and the Hound discuss Arya and Tyrion and Pod reminisce about their time together.

Speaking of Brienne, Gwendoline Christie said the following about her character for this season:

Quote

“[W]hat’s recurrent in Brienne’s life is forming relationships with people that start with an opposing force, then a begrudging mutual respect and, out of that, a deep respect and pure love,” she said. “That happens again this season. Brienne will realize a deep alliance.”

Quote

Brienne starts to question those preconceived ideas…of how her life should be, how she should live her life, what loyalty truly means. Does loyal mean adhering blindly to someone who perhaps is making poor decisions, or does it mean trying to steer them towards the better way?”

Did we see any of this?

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screamin

screamin

(edited)
9 minutes ago, anamika said:

To add to this, according to spoilers, apparently Jon does not even ask Brienne why she is there. But Brienne and the Hound discuss Arya and Tyrion and Pod reminisce about their time together.

Speaking of Brienne, Gwendoline Christie said the following about her character for this season:

Did we see any of this?

It certainly describes her fidelity to Renly, who made some godawful poor decisions. And doesn't she say to Jaime in the next episode, 'fuck loyalty', or something? I take it to mean she will fight the White Walkers rather than return straight to WF...and Jaime will come along for the ride...which is who she presumably means by starting out as an opposing force to him, then begrudging mutual respect and so forth.

Edited by screamin
Stephanie1216

Stephanie1216

15 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I think Arya's hair makes the most sense, because if she's not bathing frequently and isn't concerning herself about "girly" things, it probably would look lank and greasy. I was worried Sansa's wig was going to look super fake, but it's not too bad. Cersei's is just ridiculous. It looks like a cap sitting on top of her head. I'm going to have rewatch Jon's scenes. I never knew they used a wig on him. Interesting. 

 

No one has said it was a wig just me. I re watched after typing this. Everything looks ok until the ice rock island. I noticed in the scene when Thoros died. Lots of snow in his hair but it was so poofy and perfect it made me look closer. When your hair is wet it gets flat and heavy not poofy and then the hairline is different. 

When he comes out of the water I think it's his hair, too many baby hairs around his face. But in the Bed/Dany scene it's too perfect again. He's never going to say he wore a wig. He is too proud of his hair. He does have great hair.

LadyChaos

LadyChaos

8 minutes ago, Stephanie1216 said:

 

No one has said it was a wig just me. I re watched after typing this. Everything looks ok until the ice rock island. I noticed in the scene when Thoros died. Lots of snow in his hair but it was so poofy and perfect it made me look closer. When your hair is wet it gets flat and heavy not poofy and then the hairline is different. 

When he comes out of the water I think it's his hair, too many baby hairs around his face. But in the Bed/Dany scene it's too perfect again. He's never going to say he wore a wig. He is too proud of his hair. He does have great hair.

KH admitted in an interview that his hair was too short in s1, so they put a wig on him in s1.  However after that he grew it out and it is his real hair, he actually doesn't like it this long and said he will cut it all off after he is done filming the last season.

YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

11 hours ago, Francie said:

That's the thing about prophecies. They are like a half-trained mule. The minute you think they can be useful, the moment you trust in them, they kick you in the head. 

We'll see. 

Cersei's pregnant. So she already thinks she's beaten the prophecy. 

I cannot wait to see Cersei get kicked in the head. Hopefully she doesn't get back up.

I do have to say that the overcoat she's wearing in the trailer for the next episode looks kind of great.

11 hours ago, bunnyblue said:

Ding, ding, ding!! When the leak leaked, I was so confused as to why Sansa would be summoned to KL and WHO would summon her. Seriously, what purpose does the Lady of Winterfell serve in going? Why not invite other Northern lords then? A few weeks ago, I read speculation that it was Jon and Dany who extended the invite to her (and they got raked over the coals for being insensitive in summoning her to KL), but now we know they sure as hell did not since they've been too busy AND Sansa explicitly said she hasn't heard from Jon in weeks. Sansa receiving the raven is yet another nonsensical plot by D&D to include her in the major storyline, their disregard for simple logic, and, as you said, the need to get Brienne out of Winterfell AND to give her another scene with Jaime.

D&D are lazy writers. I think they've moved past trying to make things make sense and straight into who gives a rat's ass, let's just get to the finish line.

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domina89

domina89

58 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

KH admitted in an interview that his hair was too short in s1, so they put a wig on him in s1.  However after that he grew it out and it is his real hair, he actually doesn't like it this long and said he will cut it all off after he is done filming the last season.

That's a crime against humanity.  I am hoping we will see it out of the man bun at least once more before the end of the series.  I needs it!!!!!!!!!! (TM Gollum)

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MissLucas

MissLucas

12 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

so... I don't know if he was being for real or not,  but when KH was on Jimmy Kimmel in July....he had said that GOT shot some extra scenes that were fake to through off paparazzi 

I saw that interview too, he claimed there were three fake scenes. Part of me is cruel enough to wish one of this was boatsex - the internet would crash and burn.

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SeanC

SeanC

13 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

so... I don't know if he was being for real or not,  but when KH was on Jimmy Kimmel in July....he had said that GOT shot some extra scenes that were fake to through off paparazzi 

Definitely lying and trying to do some damage control over the extensive leaks on the Spain location shooting.

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BitterApple

BitterApple

13 hours ago, anamika said:

 

Did we see any of this?

I'm scratching my head as well. When did all this happen? She's barely had any scenes this season and I can't imagine her two-minute conversation with the Hound is so deep and meaningful it causes an about-face in the way her character views relationships. I guess this will be another "inside the episode" subject where D&D tell us all this stuff is occurring offscreen as a way to compensate for the crappy writing.

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

(edited)

Haven't seen any of it either, but there's still one more episode and she's supposed to have scenes with the Hound, so that should cover one thing in her response. 

Also, one of the things I really hate from any show is how there are characters in the same room and they never interact. Brienne and Jon have not exchanged a single word. Ever.

Edited by YaddaYadda
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SimoneS

SimoneS

16 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Also, one of the things I really hate from any show is how there are characters in the same room and they never interact. Brienne and Jon have not exchanged a single word. Ever.

I hadn't realized this. It is amazing since Brienne saved Sansa's life. I know we that have to recognize that there are conversations and activities that occur off screen, but it would have been good to see Jon acknowledge Brienne's heroism on screen.

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LadyChaos

LadyChaos

(edited)

Anyone read the article where supposedly one of TPTB implied that one of the sisters might die?

To me it is clear that Sansa sent Brienne to KL to get her out of the way for whatever she thinks will happen or she needs to do.  However I am on the fence as to Little gave his little speech in hopes that she would try to make Brienne leave, or if he was just trying to appear supportive and bipartisan. 

Edited by LadyChaos
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