Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[WearyTraveler]

I think that leaving the KG behind to protect Lyanna and Jon may be an indication that Rhaegar did marry her (aside from marrying siblings, the Targs were also allowed polygamy, at least as far as the Royal family was concerned).  If that was the case, then they were protecting the second Queen and a Crown Prince, not just some mistress and her bastard.

[Colorful Mess]

Also Rheagar was so obsessed with that damn prophecy, I doubt he would have risked his chance to fulfill it by accidentally siring an illegitimate son. The prophecy doesn't say the "bastard who was promised." He has to be an actual prince. It would be interesting if he had a Septon marry them in a Vegas style wedding - and if that Septon emerges somewhere in the story later on.

[Cyranetta]

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This is one part of the story I am really looking forward to. So much of Jon is tied up in being Ned Starks son that to find out that while he is a Stark, Ned was not his father and concealed this for years will be a lot to take. I think we will see Jon go through a period of questioning his identity.

When you think of it, Jon Snow has been hit with a double-whammy "you know nothing" (or better, "you knew nothing"). He still has to have time to get used to the idea of being alive again (if one can ever have enough time to get used to being resurrected), and layer on top of that getting used to being part of an entirely different family lineage (which, at least, is a more common kind of bouleversement).

[Ambrosefolly]

4 hours ago, arjumand said:

Thing is, I read somewhere (I really can't remember where) that Aerys was right in being suspicious of the Northern lords, among them Rickard Stark, who'd set up a series of dynastic marriages for his kids, along with other lords: you had Lyanna Stark with Robert Baratheon, Brandon Stark with Catelyn Tully, and I'm sure there was something planned for Lysa Tully, except she went and boned Petry Baelish. So there was no way Ned could have talked his dad out of that one.

Also, I think they were starting to get together because after the failed meeting at Harenhal, they had enough of waiting for Rhaegar to pull his finger out and move against his dad, while Rhaegar, while interested in moving against his dad, also wanted his three heads of the dragon. I don't think it was true love on his part, either, but I like Lyanna so much I don't want to think of her as a victim, lol!

I think she was a rather naive teenager in her own way, someone not much older than Sansa and either six or seven year younger than Rhaeger, at an age where the age difference makes a huge difference. Since one of her reasons for not wanting to marry Robert was the real possibility that he would stray, it bothered me she she so willingly did it to another woman (Elia) that the show has often spoken well off.

My own, albeit petty, hope is that Rhaegar eventually revealed that he was basically using her as some broadmare and by that time she was pretty much trapped.

[Clawdette]

While I am disappointed that we're only getting 13-15 more episodes, I actually prefer this strategy to 20 episodes that are grossly padded and infuriatingly slow.  D&D seem to have broken down the remaining content into the necessary number of chunks required to tell the story they want to tell.

To me, it seems like there is plenty of material for 20 "chapters" but I've never written or produced a television series.  But if the treatment of Jon Snow learning of his heritage and dealing with its repercussions is rushed through, I may riot.

[Hecate7]

8 hours ago, arjumand said:

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Thing is, I read somewhere (I really can't remember where) that Aerys was right in being suspicious of the Northern lords, among them Rickard Stark, who'd set up a series of dynastic marriages for his kids, along with other lords: you had Lyanna Stark with Robert Baratheon, Brandon Stark with Catelyn Tully, and I'm sure there was something planned for Lysa Tully, except she went and boned Petry Baelish. So there was no way Ned could have talked his dad out of that one.

Exactly. Lyssa was supposed to marry Jaime Lannister, except he went and joined the King's Guard and she got pregnant by Baelish. Jon Arryn, Lord of the Vale, was actually quite a catch, old as he was. He was still a dynastic marriage, with no heirs to take precedence over Lyssa's children.

 

[Constantinople]

4 hours ago, Colorful Mess said:

Also Rheagar was so obsessed with that damn prophecy, I doubt he would have risked his chance to fulfill it by accidentally siring an illegitimate son. The prophecy doesn't say the "bastard who was promised." He has to be an actual prince. It would be interesting if he had a Septon marry them in a Vegas style wedding...

Particularly if the Septon was an Elvis impersonator.

[TxanGoddess]

First, Rhaegar Targaryen asked Lyanna Stark, love me tender, but Brandon Stark said, little sister don't you.  Lyanna's response was that, she can't help falling in love.  But then Robert Baratheon had to check into the heartbreak hotel.  Next, Rickard Stark went to the Aerys Targaryen and told him we can't go on together with suspicious minds, but Aerys showed Rickard that he was a hunk of, hunk of burning love, while Brandon Stark said, don't be cruel.  Then the realm got all shook up.

[bunnyblue]

10 minutes ago, TxanGoddess said:

but Aerys showed Rickard that he was a hunk of, hunk of burning love, while Brandon Stark said, don't be cruel. 

OMG, this is excellent!! I've literally got tears rolling down my face from laughing so hard. But that last part is so so wrong, LOL!!!

[Jazzy24]

11 hours ago, arjumand said:

 

 

Thing is, I read somewhere (I really can't remember where) that Aerys was right in being suspicious of the Northern lords, among them Rickard Stark, who'd set up a series of dynastic marriages for his kids, along with other lords: you had Lyanna Stark with Robert Baratheon, Brandon Stark with Catelyn Tully, and I'm sure there was something planned for Lysa Tully, except she went and boned Petry Baelish. So there was no way Ned could have talked his dad out of that one.

Also, I think they were starting to get together because after the failed meeting at Harenhal, they had enough of waiting for Rhaegar to pull his finger out and move against his dad, while Rhaegar, while interested in moving against his dad, also wanted his three heads of the dragon. I don't think it was true love on his part, either, but I like Lyanna so much I don't want to think of her as a victim, lol!

Aerys was a paranoid mess. He wasn't right to be suspicious of anything Rickard did. 

Rickard Stark was just strenthining his boards by betrothing his heir Brandon to Catelyn Tully and fostering Ned at the Vale. The marriage agreement of Brandon and Catelyn is the only one actively sought. Robert Baratheon asked for Lyanna's hand and Hoster wanted to marry Lysa to Jaime Lannister. 

I think Rhaegar was the only one planning to dispose of his father but I don't think no one was in on it yet. Rhaegar underestimated Aerys' madness and things got to out of hand by the time Awrys demanded Ned and Robert's heads. 

[FemmyV]

The thought occurred to me that we don't need a group of people teaming up to take The Mountain down.

All it would take is one word from Dany: "dracaris." And he's a pile of molten metal and bones.

[OhOkayWhat]

That is true....but it is not like we need more than two persons to confront him: Sandor and Arya. Sandor is very strong, but not so fast anymore, I suspect. So that is where Arya skills and speed are useful. And above it all, it makes sense within the narrative: it is not him who want to fight Gregor, it is her and it is precisely that the reason that makes him confront his brother, to save Arya from a suicide mission.

[Minneapple]

2 hours ago, FemmyV said:

The thought occurred to me that we don't need a group of people teaming up to take The Mountain down.

All it would take is one word from Dany: "dracaris." And he's a pile of molten metal and bones.

That's part of the issue with the dragons and the fireproof lady, isn't it? Dany doesn't need any help once she gets to Westeros, just dracarys the hell out of anyone who tries to stand in her way and claim the throne by conquest or birthright, whatever she feels like. Or threaten to dracarys them, anyway. So that's why I think something has to happen to Dany and the dragons before she hits land. Euron, a storm, whatever. Otherwise the story is just so boring and un-GRRM like that it would feel fake.

Plus you know those dragons are going to have to fly off to Budget Land for an ep or two. It will be interesting to see how the writers handle them.

[YaddaYadda]

I like that the 2 families that fought to the end on the Targaryens side are also the first ones to pledge allegiance to them. I like that we see the loyalty these families have in the books (the Tyrells aren't there yet, and are questionable at best), but I like how Dorne has just been waiting for that opening, and how the North is not being passive about what happened to their liege lords. 

I love seeing that kind of loyalty. 

This is also why I'm looking forward to a character like LF being put down for good. 

[Eyes High]

YAFTA UK (a Yorkshire talent agency) announced on July 9th that two of their young actresses, Lottie Cheverton and Hannah Waring, would be auditioning for GOT on July 9th. Both actresses are in their teens, blonde, blue-eyed, and short (5'3" and 5'1"), and have native Yorkshire accents. Yorkshire accents in the show would be suited to Northern characters or wildlings (Rose Leslie aped a northern accent for Ygritte). Robert Aramayo and Sean Bean are from Yorkshire and used their native accents for Ned.

Guesses? Likely a show-original minor character (wildling or Northerner). Could be Wylla Manderly, I guess; D&D might be emboldened by Lyanna Mormont's popularity. These actresses are too young for Val, unless Val is reimagined for the show as a younger character. I'm also wondering how specific the casting call for the character was, given how similar the two actresses are (blond hair, blue eyes, short, etc.).

We also heard about the two Northern kid characters for an important scene being cast. WOTW is hearing that several other young performers are being cast. Very interesting.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

48 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Guesses? Likely a show-original minor character (wildling or Northerner). Could be Wylla Manderly, I guess; D&D might be emboldened by Lyanna Mormont's popularity. These actresses are too young for Val, unless Val is reimagined for the show as a younger character. I'm also wondering how specific the casting call for the character was, given how similar the two actresses are (blond hair, blue eyes, short, etc.).

If it is one of the Manderly girls, I guess an obvious story point would be the various Northern lords urging the new King Jon to take a queen.

[screamin]

19 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

My own, albeit petty, hope is that Rhaegar eventually revealed that he was basically using her as some broadmare and by that time she was pretty much trapped.

I think the fact that the Kingsguard at the tower were trying to kill Lyanna's brother in front of her window (something she DEFINITELY wouldn't have wanted them to do) backs up your theory. That's the sort of thing your jailors would do, not your servants.

[Chris24601]

27 minutes ago, SeanC said:

If it is one of the Manderly girls, I guess an obvious story point would be the various Northern lords urging the new King Jon to take a queen.

If so, I definitely foresee a political romance arc as a good chunk of the Northern plotline for s7 while waiting for the Wall to come down. Jon/Sansa vs. Baelish while the other lords are trying to foist their daughters on the new king (which has its own set of perils if he shows favorites... particularly with Baelish there to stir the pot). Throw in revealed identities and efforts to conceal/exploit/get ahead of it and none of these girls being able to relate to Jon's PTSD and trying to integrate the Free Folk and you've got more than enough material to fill up the Northern plot line for seven episodes while organizing for the impending undead invasion in the background.

[YaddaYadda]

46 minutes ago, SeanC said:

If it is one of the Manderly girls, I guess an obvious story point would be the various Northern lords urging the new King Jon to take a queen.

Let's hope Jon learned something from what happened with Robb. 

[SeanC]

Just now, YaddaYadda said:

Let's hope Jon learned something from what happened with Robb. 

Don't break your betrothal?

I think that, if this is going to be a story point, aside from just showing Jon dealing with kingship, the most obvious narrative purpose would be to raise in the audience's mind the question of who Jon will marry.  Particularly if this is heading toward a Jon/Dany pairing (or even just the prospect of one), as arguably was hinted at in 610 by Dany's talking about potential political matches, it makes sense to raise the issue on his end.

[Hecate7]

I'm hoping it's a flashback of some kind, and we're going to find out why there must always be a Stark in Winterfell.

[Minneapple]

6 hours ago, SeanC said:

If it is one of the Manderly girls, I guess an obvious story point would be the various Northern lords urging the new King Jon to take a queen.

They should play it like The Dating Game or the Bachelor. "Soooo Jon Snow, you've just been named the King in the North! Here are three girls for you to choose from as brides!"

Jon: Uhhhh...

I'd be interested in seeing the casting notices that went out for these actresses, if they were specifically looking for blue-eyed blondes.

[FemmyV]

Thinking about the next season, what I want more than anything: More fucking Stark family interactions. The story revolves around them and their struggles, but they all struggle ALONE. To some extent, it's been a highly successful breaking of the rules but it's getting tired. As a viewer, I'm treated to all manner of familial action from Lannisters and Tyrells (no more, that), Boltons. But the Starks? Come on - the show's theme is their family song. Just as Dany will now be far more interesting, tied to the rest of the canvas, so will Arya, Jon, Bran & Sansa.

[cambridgeguy]

12 hours ago, Minneapple said:

They should play it like The Dating Game or the Bachelor. "Soooo Jon Snow, you've just been named the King in the North! Here are three girls for you to choose from as brides!"

Jon: Uhhhh...

I'd be interested in seeing the casting notices that went out for these actresses, if they were specifically looking for blue-eyed blondes.

Jon only gets to play that card once so politically the smart thing to do is marry a VIP from the Vale (does Royce have a daughter?) to solidify that alliance unless the North is more shaky than it looks.  If Jon's lucky then all of the traitorous types have already been eliminated.

If Jon does decide he needs to marry some Northerner then it also makes political sense for him to ask Sansa to marry someone important from the Vale if they want to include some of her book plot.  Jon probably wouldn't force the issue but I'm sure Sansa would blow a gasket if she feels like she's being forced to marry someone for a third (fourth if Joffrey counts) time.  It would give her something in common with Cersei.

[Winnief]

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I think that, if this is going to be a story point, aside from just showing Jon dealing with kingship, the most obvious narrative purpose would be to raise in the audience's mind the question of who Jon will marry.  Particularly if this is heading toward a Jon/Dany pairing (or even just the prospect of one), as arguably was hinted at in 610 by Dany's talking about potential political matches, it makes sense to raise the issue on his end.

Quite likely.  Of course all this will be complicated if/when Jon's true parentage is revealed.  It might make Jon/Dany MORE likely (incest aside,) as a way of resolving the Targaryen line of succession issue, but it also might make Sansa/Jon a viable option to hold WF, since by marrying Ned's nephew to his daughter, they could keep the Stark line alive.

 

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I'm hoping it's a flashback of some kind, and we're going to find out why there must always be a Stark in Winterfell.

I'm hoping we learn about that too.  I suspect that Winterfell is set up to be some kind of bastion to fight the White Walkers, but that the magical safeguards only work if the Starks hold the castle...which actually would have been the best argument of all for booting out the Boltons.  Not to mention that adds further urgency to the Stark family tragedy. 

 

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If Jon does decide he needs to marry some Northerner then it also makes political sense for him to ask Sansa to marry someone important from the Vale if they want to include some of her book plot.  Jon probably wouldn't force the issue but I'm sure Sansa would blow a gasket if she feels like she's being forced to marry someone for a third (fourth if Joffrey counts) time.

I suspect there WILL be considerable political pressure on Sansa to marry...but I don't think Jon would ever make her do it.  But yeah, that would be another plotline for next season.

[benteen]

Yeah, I don't think Jon would ever make her marry if she didn't want to.  He might broach the subject but wouldn't impose it on her.

Lord Royce does have a daughter.  In the book, she married Lord Redfort's (I think that was his name) oldest son, breaking Mya Stone's heart.

[Winnief]

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Lord Royce does have a daughter.  In the book, she married Lord Redfort's (I think that was his name) oldest son, breaking Mya Stone's heart.

I suspect Lord Royce has more than ONE daughter.  Not to mention Lady Waynwood and the other Lords Declarent.

[YaddaYadda]

I've been wondering if now that Arya is all skilled as a faceless person if she won't head to Winterfell looking like someone else to help out, and then leave without her siblings ever knowing that she was there because she doesn't know if she wants to stay or can stay (or they find out later that she is there). Maybe that's who the casting call is for. Blonde, blue eyed girl is the opposite of Arya's looks.

[Macbeth]

I like that a lot idea a lot Yadda Yadda. But I really hope she ends up staying because I want a Stark family reunion so bad.  Once Arya sees mopey Jon,  how can she help but give him a hug.

[Minneapple]

15 hours ago, FemmyV said:

Thinking about the next season, what I want more than anything: More fucking Stark family interactions. The story revolves around them and their struggles, but they all struggle ALONE. To some extent, it's been a highly successful breaking of the rules but it's getting tired. As a viewer, I'm treated to all manner of familial action from Lannisters and Tyrells (no more, that), Boltons. But the Starks? Come on - the show's theme is their family song. Just as Dany will now be far more interesting, tied to the rest of the canvas, so will Arya, Jon, Bran & Sansa.

Yes, I really want more Stark family interactions. The reunion of Jon and Sansa was a highlight of last season. I really want to see them reunite with Arya and Bran.  

But this speculation intrigues me as well...

55 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I've been wondering if now that Arya is all skilled as a faceless person if she won't head to Winterfell looking like someone else to help out, and then leave without her siblings ever knowing that she was there because she doesn't know if she wants to stay or can stay (or they find out later that she is there). Maybe that's who the casting call is for. Blonde, blue eyed girl is the opposite of Arya's looks.

Maisie Williams noted that Arya is so different nowadays that she might not fit in with the other Starks anymore (though I'd argue that would make the reunion even better since they're ALL different), and that she'd like to see Arya as like a free-agent assassin or some such storyline. Which would be interesting, and possible. But oh, the idea of all the Stark kids together again. Isaac Hempstead Wright said that they all have these different abilities now, and could team up like the Avengers -- Bran with his visions, Jon with his fighting, Arya the assassin and Sansa the politician. 

[Macbeth]

I am watching earlier seasons.  I really miss Bronn and Tyrion.  Bronn hasn't appeared too happy to be around Jaime.  He clearly liked hanging around Tyrion.  I think Bronn will see that the Lannister reign is ending really soon .  Time to sell his sword back to Tyrion.  I am sure Tyrion has the money now.  Tyrion knows the deal.  He didn't take it to heart when Bronn refused to fight for him.  And given what the Mountain did to Oberyn well.... Bronn was right to avoid that fight.

[Ambrosefolly]

4 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Yes, I really want more Stark family interactions. The reunion of Jon and Sansa was a highlight of last season. I really want to see them reunite with Arya and Bran.  

But this speculation intrigues me as well...

Maisie Williams noted that Arya is so different nowadays that she might not fit in with the other Starks anymore (though I'd argue that would make the reunion even better since they're ALL different), and that she'd like to see Arya as like a free-agent assassin or some such storyline. Which would be interesting, and possible. But oh, the idea of all the Stark kids together again. Isaac Hempstead Wright said that they all have these different abilities now, and could team up like the Avengers -- Bran with his visions, Jon with his fighting, Arya the assassin and Sansa the politician. 

I thought it was funny that Maisie thinks Arya can't return home because if there is one group of people that would totally understand her, it is the remaining Starks. We have Jon, who hanged a boy (however justified it was), Sansa, who fed her husband to his dogs, Bran who not only wiped out the first inhabitants of Westros, also was responsible for turning Hodor simple and getting him killed.

[AGuyToo]

On 7/12/2016 at 9:00 AM, YaddaYadda said:

I like that the 2 families that fought to the end on the Targaryens side are also the first ones to pledge allegiance to them. I like that we see the loyalty these families have in the books (the Tyrells aren't there yet, and are questionable at best), but I like how Dorne has just been waiting for that opening, and how the North is not being passive about what happened to their liege lords. 

I love seeing that kind of loyalty. 

This is also why I'm looking forward to a character like LF being put down for good. 

This idea -- decades-long loyalty -- would be applicable if D&D had stuck with the Dorne plot of the books. There, in GRRM's original vision, it was Prince Doran who plotted "Vengeance. Justice. Fire and Blood" over the course of 20 years. That version was organic and moving and powerful. But in the D&D television version, they instead gave that plot to the cartoon characters Ellaria and the Sand Snakes, who are not Martells. In fact, supposedly to avenge Oberyn Martell and Elia Martell, the cartoon characters basically exterminated House Martell.

I know complaining about the TV Dorne plot is kind of tiresome at this point, but I can't help myself.

Edited July 14, 2016 by AGuyToo

[SimoneS]

4 hours ago, AGuyToo said:

This idea -- decades-long loyalty -- would be applicable if D&D had stuck with the Dorne plot of the books. There, in GRRM's original vision, it was Prince Doran who plotted "Vengeance. Justice. Fire and Blood" over the course of 20 years. That version was organic and moving and powerful. But in the D&D television version, they instead gave that plot to the cartoon characters Ellaria and the Sand Snakes, who are not Martells. In fact, supposedly to avenge Oberyn Martell and Elia Martell, the cartoon characters basically exterminated House Martell.

I know complaining about the TV Dorne plot is kind of tiresome at this point, but I can't help myself.

The Sand Snakes are Martells, they are Oberyn's illegitimate daughters. The Dorne story is pretty dumb and a waste of Alexander Siddig.

[YaddaYadda]

6 hours ago, AGuyToo said:

This idea -- decades-long loyalty -- would be applicable if D&D had stuck with the Dorne plot of the books. There, in GRRM's original vision, it was Prince Doran who plotted "Vengeance. Justice. Fire and Blood" over the course of 20 years. That version was organic and moving and powerful. But in the D&D television version, they instead gave that plot to the cartoon characters Ellaria and the Sand Snakes, who are not Martells. In fact, supposedly to avenge Oberyn Martell and Elia Martell, the cartoon characters basically exterminated House Martell.

I know complaining about the TV Dorne plot is kind of tiresome at this point, but I can't help myself.

I don't even like Dorne in the books tbh because it drags (Feast for Crows was just extremely blah to me), but finding out that Doran was playing this long game, that he wasn't some ineffective ruler was great. He had all his ducks in a row, he was smart, a careful planner, everything a ruler should be. 

I don't really understand why they changed the plot this much. I get why they dropped Ariane. They weren't going to do the Aegon story. I even get why they dropped Quentyn since they didn't want a marriage alliance between Dorne and Dany. And since they know how this thing ends, it makes sense, but to kill Doran? Then call him a weak ruler? Because what? He refused to murder an innocent girl?

The only redeeming thing about TV Dorne is how pretty that garden with the pool is, and how I'd love to live there.

[anamika]

15 hours ago, Macbeth said:

I like that a lot idea a lot Yadda Yadda. But I really hope she ends up staying because I want a Stark family reunion so bad.  Once Arya sees mopey Jon,  how can she help but give him a hug.

She won't have to jump so high to hug him now. Besides it will be nice for Jon to reunite with that one sibling who is shorter than him considering that Sansa and Bran are like giants now! But Jon does get all the best hugs (Arya, Robb, Sansa, Sam, Edd). It would be great if he could get one with Bran and finally one again with Arya completing the cycle.

The worst part of season 6 for me was the fact that Jon neglected to even ask about Arya or mention her name. One of the most important relationships in the books, the reason for him to break his NW vows, completely ignored on the show. And with Maisie saying that she wants Arya the wanderer, I am doubtful if they will do justice to the Jon-Arya relationship on the show. I am being bitter but I think the show will prioritize a Sansa-Arya reunion before a Jon-Arya one.

40 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

And since they know how this thing ends, it makes sense, but to kill Doran? Then call him a weak ruler? Because what? He refused to murder an innocent girl?

The show was not even planning on doing Dorne. Dorne was written as a way to give Jaime something to do and they really wanted to have Indira Varma on the show. Which sort of explains the off handed manner in which they disposed off Doran and put Ellaria in charge.

Plus the show's theme this season was that the women are on top. Cersei, Dany, Yara, Queen of Thorns, Arya, Lyanna Mormont, Sansa and Ellaria. Jon is currently odd man out, though the writing did it's best to show that Jon only won because of Sansa and Lyanna.

In the grand scheme of things, Dorne is not that important, all things considered. With Aegon absent in the books and Varys aligned with Dany, I can see why they pushed forward with just Ellaria and the sand snakes.

Edited July 14, 2016 by anamika

[GrailKing]

16 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Maisie Williams noted that Arya is so different nowadays that she might not fit in with the other Starks anymore (though I'd argue that would make the reunion even better since they're ALL different), and that she'd like to see Arya as like a free-agent assassin or some such storyline. Which would be interesting, and possible. But oh, the idea of all the Stark kids together again. Isaac Hempstead Wright said that they all have these different abilities now, and could team up like the Avengers -- Bran with his visions, Jon with his fighting, Arya the assassin and Sansa the politician. 

I think most people would like this, as far as Sansa, I think they are making it hard for people to see her as a political force for her family; as they really don't seem to be telling the viewers what is actually in her head for her decisions like GRRM does in the books.

[GrailKing]

11 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I thought it was funny that Maisie thinks Arya can't return home because if there is one group of people that would totally understand her, it is the remaining Starks. We have Jon, who hanged a boy (however justified it was), Sansa, who fed her husband to his dogs, Bran who not only wiped out the first inhabitants of Westros, also was responsible for turning Hodor simple and getting him killed.

As far as Jon and Sansa, they where both justifiable, Bran was being a typical little boy with great power and not knowing it's pitfalls and doing a really bad mistake. Being all powerful is froth with dangers and he's going to have to live with those decisions for a very long time.

[Ambrosefolly]

1 minute ago, GrailKing said:

As far as Jon and Sansa, they where both justifiable, Bran was being a typical little boy with great power and not knowing it's pitfalls and doing a really bad mistake. Being all powerful is froth with dangers and he's going to have to live with those decisions for a very long time.

I think everyone Arya killed deserved it.

[GrailKing]

56 minutes ago, anamika said:

The worst part of season 6 for me was the fact that Jon neglected to even ask about Arya or mention her name

May-haps Sansa told him what Brienne told her and he did not need to ask.

Sansa included Arya in her reason for taking back Winterfell.

Edited July 14, 2016 by GrailKing

[GrailKing]

1 minute ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I think everyone Arya killed deserved it.

I'm not disagreeing with you except maybe in book

Derick? the NW singer, not really her call in my opinion.

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, GrailKing said:

I'm not disagreeing with you except maybe in book

  Hide contents

Derick? the NW singer, not really her call in my opinion.

Spoiler

In the legal system Arya has been raised under, he had committed a death penalty offense, and nobody else was going to punish him for it.

[Minneapple]

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I am being bitter but I think the show will prioritize a Sansa-Arya reunion before a Jon-Arya one.

I actually hope so. I love the idea of the Stark sisters reuniting and being friends, forgetting why they didn't get along once upon a time. I loved Sansa's fond little smile when Brienne told her Arya wasn't dressed like a lady.

[screamin]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

Spoiler

the legal system Arya has been raised under, he had committed a death penalty offense, and nobody else was going to punish him for it.

 

Spoiler

In the legal system Arya has been raised under, thieves have their hands cut off, but we don't see her doing that to such acquaintances that she knows who thieve.

Edited July 14, 2016 by screamin

[screamin]

3 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I think everyone Arya killed deserved it.

In the show, maybe. In the books, she killed that insurer who she had no idea what crime he had committed, or indeed if he had committed any crime at all that deserved killing. She made a few enquiries about this, but when she was told it was none of her business, she eventually shrugged and got efficiently along with the job.

[GrailKing]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

In the legal system Arya has been raised under, he had committed a death penalty offense, and nobody else was going to punish him for it.

If she was a Lord of some house I agree with you, but she was not and she isn't, that was a job for either Samwell or an authority in Weswteros.

29 minutes ago, screamin said:

In the show, maybe. In the books, she killed that insurer who she had no idea what crime he had committed, or indeed if he had committed any crime at all that deserved killing. She made a few enquiries about this, but when she was told it was none of her business, she eventually shrugged and got efficiently along with the job.

I think in the show Jaquen quizzes her and she relized the man was cheating people out of their money.

[SeanC]

Just now, GrailKing said:

If she was a Lord of some house I agree with you, but she was not and she isn't, that was a job for either Samwell or an authority in Weswteros.

But like I said, no authority in Westeros was going to do anything about it.  Arya's story has shown her seeing authority break down or refuse to do its job, and take up the task herself.

[GrailKing]

2 hours ago, Minneapple said:

I actually hope so. I love the idea of the Stark sisters reuniting and being friends, forgetting why they didn't get along once upon a time. I loved Sansa's fond little smile when Brienne told her Arya wasn't dressed like a lady.

I think Sansa and Arya will have some tension to it; last time Arya saw Sansa she was standing by Cersei ( and smiling )as her father lost his head.

In book GRRM said both girls have issue's to resolve with each other.

The actors made Sansa and Ned as foolish clowns and Sandor did give Arya some info on Sansa being mistreated and almost raped so those may mitigate some tension.

[GrailKing]

12 minutes ago, SeanC said:

But like I said, no authority in Westeros was going to do anything about it.  Arya's story has shown her seeing authority break down or refuse to do its job, and take up the task herself.

First no one knew but Sam, second authority hasn't broken down this is a case of Arya taking (wrongfully )the law into her own hands.

Thirdly this is probably one of the few times I go against Arya or any Stark for that matter on a decision that was made.

[Chris24601]

5 hours ago, anamika said:

The worst part of season 6 for me was the fact that Jon neglected to even ask about Arya or mention her name. One of the most important relationships in the books, the reason for him to break his NW vows, completely ignored on the show. And with Maisie saying that she wants Arya the wanderer, I am doubtful if they will do justice to the Jon-Arya relationship on the show. I am being bitter but I think the show will prioritize a Sansa-Arya reunion before a Jon-Arya one.

One thing to consider though is that perhaps the reason they're ignoring it on the show is because, in the end, it doesn't matter nearly as much as its expected to. The worst case scenario of this being the "won't find your body until spring with a needle frozen in your fingers" scenario where Arya dies before ever reuniting with her family and they only find out about it after the fact as part of the bittersweet ending package.

That's actually one of the most interesting things to me. How many of the seemingly odd adaptational choices they made (such as making SanSan non-existent or doing away with most of Sansa's Vale plotline or Jaime STILL not breaking from Cersei or excising fAegon entirely) are just them playing fast and loose because of their own story interests and how much is due to their knowledge of how the story ends and not wanting to waste limited screen time on things that don't go anywhere?

By the same token, were certain things accelerated because differences in the respective mediums required more time for certain characters to interact and build relationships on the show than the books would need (ex. Tyrion reaching Dany and Sansa reaching Jon well ahead of where they are in the books)?

Obviously we won't know for sure until the books are out or someone official tells us (the latter if author existence failure occurs before the books are complete), but its an interesting avenue to ponder, particularly if you look at the choices in terms of what they teach you in screenwriting classes.

For example, based on traditional screenwriting setups of who is interacting with who for extended periods of time I'd fully expect Dany/Tyrion and Jon/Sansa to be the endgame couples because Storytelling 101 is that if a character is pursuing a hypothetical or distant perfect match; ex. Dany's best political match or Jon's queen; while they've got someone who could fulfill that role perfectly if not for X, then 9 times out of 10 something will happen that overcomes X at practically the last minute so the character can choose the real person they've been sharing the story with over the hypothetical perfect match.

It's used so much because it conveys a fundamental truth of life... that we often ignore what's right in front of us for often stupid reasons and, unlike what happens all too often in real life, the protagonist gets to figure it out before its too late and get their hard won happy ending.

The reason I don't hear much beyond resignation to the inevitable with regards to Jon/Dany is precisely because it doesn't feel earned; they've had struggles to overcome, but they're not struggling with each other (in both senses of the term) and it plays against most people's fundamental life experiences... that perfect things/easy answers just fall into our laps without having to fight for them* at all (the same reason Lord Rickon of Winterfell was never going to happen because it was the easy answer to resolving the struggle for power in the North).

* i.e. Fighting existential threats like the Army of the Dead do not count... the struggle has to relate to what is being fought for. So Tyrion would have to fight to get Dany to see him as worthy of a marriage while Dany would have to fight her own perceptions of what would make an ideal husband. Jon would have to fight his own inclination to see Sansa as someone to be protected instead a partner whose advise is to be valued while Sansa would have to fight her trust issues so she can open up to Jon. Jon and Dany meeting up, having the hots for each other and then going and blowing the crap out of Ice Zombies with dragons like some Battle Couple is NOT having to fight for their relationship.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Chris24601