Season 7 Finale Special - Check Up With Dr. Drew, Part 1

[lilmarysunshine]

9 hours ago, CaughtOnTape said:

While David scares me, I don't entirely disagree with his stance on calling the police on Barb.  I suppose I could marginalize it to fit my agenda for not liking him by saying he only did it because she was yelling too loudly...but nope.  She was aggressive, yelling in front of kids and refusing to leave the house.  She was rude, belligerent and insulting even after he asked her to stop.  If she'd have walked into my house doing that, bet your bippy I'd have called the police.  I don't care who you think you are, don't come walking into my house yelling.  I don't believe anyone would allow that type of behavior in their home, regardless of who was doing it.

Barb has no boundaries with Jenelle.  Do I believe she was doing her makeup?  Hell no.  But Jenelle is an adult.  If she wants to lock herself in her room doing drugs with her kid...well ok, that's her deal.  If Barb was afraid for her daughter?  Then why didn't she tell Jenelle that through the door.  She and Jenelle are fantastically antagonistic with each other.  I don't fault one more than the other for it, but Barb is no angel in this situation.  Jenelle just didn't HAPPEN the way she is.  Barb had a hand in it, she needs to take some responsibility for that.  Barb has never shown an ounce of affection towards Jenelle that I've ever seen.  She's either yelling, insulting or telling her how to live her life.  I mean, is it a shock that Jenelle runs into the arms of every male within a 6 mile radius that shows her some love?

I do applaud Barb for recognizing that Jace had something going on that needed to be handled with his ADHD, because it seems she didn't do that where Jenelle is concerned.  

Am I saying to feel bad for Jenelle?  Nope.  Jenelle is terrible at just about everything.  She needs to grow up, shutup, stop blaming everyone else for her problems and do something with herself.  But Barb has culpability in that and it's infuriating that she gets on that stage laughing and joking like she's just so funny.  Hey lady, your daughter is a trainwreck...what's being shown on this show isn't funny in the least.

I see her taking NO ownership in any of the dysfunction. And she does laugh it off. She's a little too fond of the positive attention she gets, I think. I think she loves Jace and works hard but that's pretty much all I can say good about her.

[lilmarysunshine]

23 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I just... David is a stabilizing force.

 

Like Stalin was in the Soviet Union.

Dr. Drew really is a dumbass. Throughout history controlling, dictatorial leadership has been "stabilizing."

[Chicken Wing]

1 hour ago, Lemons said:

The police should only be called in a domestic situation when someone is being threatened or hurt or about to be hurt.  The police aren't on-call to referee family disagreements.  It was obnoxious to get police involved.  What if there was a real emergency going on and they didn't get there on time because David was so distraught about "his" kids hearing such horror.  And we know they have all heard and seen worse.  Barb doesn't have any coping skills but she was reacting to seeing Jace left alone and not being able to reach a his mother to find out what was going on.  Too bad if she yelled and brought up unpleasant things.

No, yelling is not good.   It is bad.  But it's unbelievable that the only thing Drew took a stand on was that Barb yells too much and so does Janelle.  Drew has nothing to say about the drugs, neglect, domestic violence, multiple partners, but damn if he is going to tolerate yelling!

This times ten. Aside from him having no real right to even call the cops on Barbara or demand for her to leave and I still stand by that, it was particularly jarring because he really had nothing to call the police on her about. She's yelling and making a scene and possibly upsetting the young children (75% of which aren't his but whatever)? Fair enough reason to want her to leave, but that's not exactly a complaint warranting police intervention. At best, that was an overreaction; at worst it was obnoxious and a disrespectful waste of the police's time. Don't call the police about stupidness. Especially when you have no right anyway.

And I say that if anything Barbara could have called the police about him, or at least that's what I would threatened if I were her, because of the reasons why I feel her refusal to leave was justifiable -- she doesn't know what's going on with Jenelle that she won't, or can't, come out of the room, won't answer her, David won't let her see her ...she knows how Jenelle's relationships are ... she knows that David specifically has his own history in this area... Complete nonsense to call the police about someone yelling in "your" house in front of your kids, but not at all nonsense to call the police about concerns of a possible domestic issue.

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, lilmarysunshine said:

I see her taking NO ownership in any of the dysfunction. And she does laugh it off. She's a little too fond of the positive attention she gets, I think. I think she loves Jace and works hard but that's pretty much all I can say good about her.

I agree. As much as Barb thinks it's funny the cops know her by name, I don't find it so funny that four small children witnessed a nasty argument that resulted in the cops escorting Barb off the property. All the adults in this situation acted like complete assholes, Barb included.

[ReadMeLattice]

I find it disgusting that Nathan brushed off the accusations of abuse from both Barb and Jenelle so easily. Because it's not a big deal to choke and slap a woman, even a pregnant woman?! I get that Jenelle is just as abusive, but DAMN. He didn't even really defend himself! Yes, he said she cut her wrists (as if that makes it OK to abuse someone...), but a cut on the wrist doesn't explain the choking, slapping, and trespassing. He didn't say anything about that. I wonder how long it'll be before Nathan gets violent with the next one when he's trashed.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Lm2162

[Chicken Wing]

When is Dr. Lazy ever going to confront Jenelle with the fact that every one of her relationships ends up abusive, every one of her partners ends up striking her or choking her or attacking her in some way? There's some kind of pathology to that. Why does she keep ending up with this type of guy?

[Mkay]

3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Adam is a textbook narcissist. The moment you call them out on their lies and bullshit, they immediately go on the attack. 

Every season he claims he's done with the show and every season he's back on. Adam knows damn well his personal trainer salary isn't going to keep him flush in steroids and douchey muscle cars.

I read it with extra disgust knowing he got a check for season 7 and has signed up for season 8. I'd be thrilled if he was off of the show.  His excuses don't fly.  Jeremy and Cory both didn't have to come.  He could have made up some kind of work excuse if he was so against being there. 

[Mkay]

I took Barbara's comment about the cops knowing her as they know her from tv, not from multiple police calls.  Though I'm sure they know Jenelle and her address by heart.  I got the impression that Barbara was giggly because she may have been a little tipsy.  A Couple of pictures from the reunion Barbara is holding a drink, or two, as Papa Randy pointed out on Twitter.  She was super cheerful and giggly.  Then again I tend to try and find a happier answer for a situation instead of instantly thinking the worst.  

[gotta watch]

1 hour ago, Chicken Wing said:

And I say that if anything Barbara could have called the police about him, or at least that's what I would threatened if I were her, because of the reasons why I feel her refusal to leave was justifiable -- she doesn't know what's going on with Jenelle that she won't, or can't, come out of the room, won't answer her, David won't let her see her ...she knows how Jenelle's relationships are ... she knows that David specifically has his own history in this area... Complete nonsense to call the police about someone yelling in "your" house in front of your kids, but not at all nonsense to call the police about concerns of a possible domestic issue.

Exactly! I was coming here to post this very thing, but you worded it much better than I, Chicken Wing! In a perfect world, Barb would have calmly stated "I need to see my daughter. There are children playing unsupervised out in the street and Jenelle if you won't come out of the bathroom and confirm that you are fine, I will call the police to ask them to come do a welfare check."

[lidarose9]

Even I, a stout Barb defender, was not amused at her making jokes and excuses. Nobody seems to take this shit seriously, or they take the WRONG shit seriously and are BLIND to the VITAL stuff. Sorry for the all caps, but the more this show goes on, the more I feel an impending sense of doom for those children. I honestly don't give a rat's ass what happens to any of these puke-making adults anymore, not one of them. Well, maybe exclude Chelsea. But what matters, what REALLY matters are those little people who may be in actual danger, either from harm or neglect, but are most certainly being truly scarred by the shenanigans these irresponsible assholes get up to for the cameras. For a little bit of money, as Marge Gunderson would say. I very much admire Cory and Miranda for opting out. Sorry. I'm just disgusted.

[Lemons]

you're right, in a perfect world, Barb would handle issues very differently.   But of all the potentially damaging behaviors exhibited by these people, yelling isn't on the top of the list.  

I'm glad Barb kept it lighthearted with Drew (I thought that was his last name).  He didn't deserve the respect of being taken seriously.

[GreatKazu]

I don't know why it is some people are so apprehensive when it comes to giving children much-needed medication for mental disorders or mental disabilities. Would Jenelle deny her child medication if he had a failing kidney or liver? Would she deny Jace insulin if he had diabetes? Surely she would not deny her child any meds for his organs. Hey Jenelle, his brain is an organ too.  Would she deny him pain killers if he was injured and in pain? Well, she'd likely ok the pain pills so she could ingest them. I am just dumbfounded at Jenelle who would deny medication for her child. 

Edited June 15, 2016 by GreatKazu

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

37 minutes ago, Mkay said:

I took Barbara's comment about the cops knowing her as they know her from tv, not from multiple police calls.  Though I'm sure they know Jenelle and her address by heart.  I got the impression that Barbara was giggly because she may have been a little tipsy.  A Couple of pictures from the reunion Barbara is holding a drink, or two, as Papa Randy pointed out on Twitter.  She was super cheerful and giggly.  Then again I tend to try and find a happier answer for a situation instead of instantly thinking the worst.  

God knows if I was about to get on stage with Dr. Drew, I'd have a couple of glasses of wine before, too.

[Christina]

19 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

Would Jenelle deny her child medication if he had a failing kidney or liver? Would she deny Jace insulin if he had diabetes?

It depends on the street value and if she could use it to get high. If the medicine could serve a purpose for her, then yes, she would deny her child the drug after picking it up from the pharmacy. If she can't use for any reason, then she wouldn't deny it, but she would forget to give it to him. It would be just like Ali and the wheelchair.

I know that in real time Adam has signed on again, after tweeting or instagramming how he changed, blah blah blah, but I've decided to live in denial a bit longer about it and image Adam's parts being replaced by Pete the pig. Pete playing with Aubree and Paislee, Pete playing the piano, even Pete riding a motorcycle and lifting weights.  Pete is much better for those girls and doesn't make me roll my eyes in disgust.

[WhosThatGirl]

I don't really like Barb as much as others, sometimes she is quite funny and I do love her reactions to Janelle but yes at times, she isn't the best ever and I don't think I'd want her to have her own show. You know who needs their own show? PETE THE PIG! Pete and Chelsea's super tall dog. I like to think they may be the animal version of Tina Fey and Amy Poehler.

It's 2 hours later but I decided to watch the Adam clip and wow.. really.. I have nothing to say but I kind of feel like this may be a repeat of how he was on the last reunion and the last reunion before that. He says all these things about how Chelsea never gives him a chance to prove himself and yet here we are.

Edited June 15, 2016 by WhosThatGirl
I watched the Adam sneak peak.

[Darknight]

Fuck Dr. Drew dumb ass. Get Dr. Jenn from family therapy or fucking Dr. PHIL. He'll even Dr. OZ. He fucking sucks. These girls behaviors isn't acceptable. Hea an enabler. 

[Darknight]

Please excuse me poor grammar too.

[Darknight]

Jenelle is probably jealous Jace can get meds and she can't. She's probably going to steal some from him. 

[shelley1234]

As others said, Jeremy is clearly back on the job....as he was down in SD visiting with Chelsea while working.  It's pretty common for work like that to work on the job and then get laid off until the next job, etc.  Now he might have been one of the first laid off and he could have told Leah that he was laid off first because they were annoyed that he asked for Teen Mom time off or maybe Leah made it up or confused it...as she is known to do.  Even how she told Dr. Drew why Corey wasn't there....well, he coached T ball and has a game, so he just can't go!!  Corey comes on and says....yeah, I can't go cause this show fuckin' sucks.  Peace.  Mic drop.  

I do think when Dr. Drew was giving Dave credit...I think it was his way of giving him credit for not escalating and getting violent, due to his history.  You know, the history that he won't even speak of.  And Barb saying...these are my grandchildren...THEY KNOW I YELL.  That's a probably Barb.  She looked kinda manic at the reunion.  And she definitely is a wee bit of a fame whore and enjoys the fame TM brings her.  It's kinda sad.  Still.  She's the only good thing going on in Jace's life.  

Also, I got super annoyed at Dr. Drew basically frowning and judging Barb and Jenelle that they were going back to court about custody of Jace....because he wanted them to work it out themselves.  Really?  You want two people who scream at each other on the regular to figure out a really complicated situation surrounding a child???  You don't want the calm and unbiased minds of the courts to be the ones to say what is going to happen?  You hack.  I think for those who can do it without court...that is great, but this is not the situation with Jenelle and Barb.  

[sunsheyen]

16 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

And how old is Dawn? 39, 40? Damn...

It is so odd to me whenever I realize that Dawn is basically my age. I have to check the mirror and my hs/college friends' FB pages to see if we look that haggard. 

[charmed1]

I refuse to believe that lady is my age. That's like some Ripley's Believe it or Not shit. She looks closer to Barb's age than mine. 

[MargeGunderson]

16 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Jenelle was against Jace taking medication because it's a controlled substance and she's worried about if "when he gets older if he's still on it, if, like, his friends are like 'oh let me get some of that' or somethin'."  Excellent reason to keep him off it when he's six and having trouble in school.

Jenelle probably has personal experience with this - as the friend trying to scam pills.

[TeeMo]

Only on Teen Mom is a  crazy eyed lunatic who abuses his pregnant girlfriend and calls a one year old "a whiny little bitch" considered a stabilizing force. Sigh. 

[Chicken Wing]

Quote

I took Barbara's comment about the cops knowing her as they know her from tv, not from multiple police calls.  Though I'm sure they know Jenelle and her address by heart.

That's what I thought, too. I thought she meant that they know her because she's a local celebrity because of the show and "everyone" knows her, not that the police are at her house all the time or something.

Jenelle, I'm sure, is on a first-name basis with every sheriff's department in the state. Her name is probably an official code in the dispatch system. "Unit 12, we have a Jenelle in progress."

Quote

I don't know why it is some people are so apprehensive when it comes to giving children much-needed medication for mental disorders or mental disabilities. Would Jenelle deny her child medication if he had a failing kidney or liver? Would she deny Jace insulin if he had diabetes? Surely she would not deny her child any meds for his organs. Hey Jenelle, his brain is an organ too.  Would she deny him pain killers if he was injured and in pain? Well, she'd likely ok the pain pills so she could ingest them. I am just dumbfounded at Jenelle who would deny medication for her child. 

There's still a lot of stigma, I think, about taking medication for mental or psychological issues, child or otherwise. People are still hesitant to think of personality or intelligence or the psyche as something that needs to be "corrected" or "managed" through drugs. But it's about the brain, and the brain is just another organ like all the others, and just as the others sometimes have issues that need medical intervention, so does the brain. I am wary of doctors who turn to psychiatric drugs or behavior modification drugs practically as a first resort for every single issue. ADD and ADHD especially are often overdiagnosed, kids being put on Ritalin or whatever the newer one is when it really isn't needed in their case. A lot of people and children in particular are unnecessarily medicated, for a lot of things but when it's warranted, it's a help and makes a big difference in their lives.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[charmed1]

Jenelle is such a manipulative liar. She claims she told Jace that convoluted story about custody only because Jace asked her why he can't live with her. Um, no Jenelle. We watched the show. Jace says, "I can just stay here." And that's right AFTER Jenelle and Dummy Dave throw tantrums about not wanting to drive Jace home. Jace wasn't begging to stay with Jenelle. He was trying to keep the peace because he was tired of hearing them complain about him being there, which is exactly what he told Barb previously. 

Mr. Drew should've addressed that. If he's going to address Adam not showing up for Aubree, why not address what Jace said about how he's treated when he's at his "mother's" house? That little boy is smart enough to sense  where he's not wanted. That's heartbreaking. Jace and Kaiser's lives read like the beginning of the narratives on My 600 lb Life. "My mom was a drug addict. Always moving different men in and out. Food was my comfort. And now I'm confined to this bed. Frying won tons in the same bed I poop in."

[Brooklynista]

7 minutes ago, charmed1 said:

Jenelle is such a manipulative liar. She claims she told Jace that convoluted story about custody only because Jace asked her why he can't live with her. Um, no Jenelle. We watched the show. Jace says, "I can just stay here." And that's right AFTER Jenelle and Dummy Dave throw tantrums about not wanting to drive Jace home. Jace wasn't begging to stay with Jenelle. He was trying to keep the peace because he was tired of hearing them complain about him being there, which is exactly what he told Barb previously. 

Mr. Drew should've addressed that. If he's going to address Adam not showing up for Aubree, why not address what Jace said about how he's treated when he's at his "mother's" house? That little boy is smart enough to sense  where he's not wanted. That's heartbreaking. Jace and Kaiser's lives read like the beginning of the narratives on My 600 lb Life. "My mom was a drug addict. Always moving different men in and out. Food was my comfort. And now I'm confined to this bed. Frying won tons in the same bed I poop in."

I love it anytime a Penny reference can be tossed in.

Janelle is full of shit saying she doesn't want Jace on a controlled substance because she's worried about his friends down the line.  Janelle has never had a single thought about Jace's future beyond when Barb was coming to pick him up.  She was certainly just parroting back something she heard Uncle Bad Touch say.  A thought about the long term effects of medications would never come into that idiots head.

7 minutes ago, charmed1 said:

Jenelle is such a manipulative liar. She claims she told Jace that convoluted story about custody only because Jace asked her why he can't live with her. Um, no Jenelle. We watched the show. Jace says, "I can just stay here." And that's right AFTER Jenelle and Dummy Dave throw tantrums about not wanting to drive Jace home. Jace wasn't begging to stay with Jenelle. He was trying to keep the peace because he was tired of hearing them complain about him being there, which is exactly what he told Barb previously. 

Mr. Drew should've addressed that. If he's going to address Adam not showing up for Aubree, why not address what Jace said about how he's treated when he's at his "mother's" house? That little boy is smart enough to sense  where he's not wanted. That's heartbreaking. Jace and Kaiser's lives read like the beginning of the narratives on My 600 lb Life. "My mom was a drug addict. Always moving different men in and out. Food was my comfort. And now I'm confined to this bed. Frying won tons in the same bed I poop in."

I love it anytime a Penny reference can be tossed in.

Janelle is full of shit saying she doesn't want Jace on a controlled substance because she's worried about his friends down the line.  Janelle has never had a single thought about Jace's future beyond when Barb was coming to pick him up.  She was certainly just parroting back something she heard Uncle Bad Touch say.  A thought about the long term effects of medications would never come into that idiots head.

[DangerousMinds]

10 hours ago, gotta watch said:

Exactly! I was coming here to post this very thing, but you worded it much better than I, Chicken Wing! In a perfect world, Barb would have calmly stated "I need to see my daughter. There are children playing unsupervised out in the street and Jenelle if you won't come out of the bathroom and confirm that you are fine, I will call the police to ask them to come do a welfare check."

But none of us live in a perfect world. I know I make mistakes every day.

[CaughtOnTape]

19 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

Well, I sympathize more with Barbara's side and with her reaction, arriving at her daughter's house and asking to see her daughter and being physically forbidden from even looking upon her, having the door locked in her face, Boyfriend Guy Whose Opinion No One Asked just telling her to go away ... I'd be quite suspicious, quite freaked out and quite not in no damn mood for Boyfriend Guy Whose Opinion No One Asked to tell me to leave my own daughter's house. Regardless of whatever was really going on (she was putting on her makeup? sure) everything about this scene was very suspect and screamed that something might be wrong, and I can't blame Barb one bit for refusing to leave until she saw or spoke to Jenelle. I don't care if he lives there, too. Jenelle is her daughter, and those are her grandchildren in the house along with his daughter, and if it were me there is no way, no how, no way in hell some punk is going to be all up in MY face telling me get out of MY daughter's house and refusing to let me see MY daughter to at least know she's even okay before I leave when I'm good and ready. I would have called the cops on him. So, I don't blame Barbara for getting all Barbarariffic in his face. Frankly she held back a lot more than I would have. And if, after getting in my face and refusing to let me see my own daughter in her own house, punk boy started threatening to call the police on me if I didn't leave ... girl, it's on.

And this is 100% the reason why things between Barb and Jenelle will never change.  Barb believes she is entitled to whatever Jenelle is doing whenever Barb wants to know about it and if someone gets in her way, then they be damned.

Sorry, but no.  Jenelle is an adult.  Barb didn't give a shit when her daughter was shooting up, having unprotected sex when she was 15 and getting pregnant, why does she feel she's entitled to knowing now?  

It's not MY daughter in MY daughter's house...it's my daughter in her house and I need to respect her wishes when I'm in her house.  Period.  Jenelle didn't come out because Barb was already screaming and yelling and causing a scene.  In that moment, it wasn't about Jenelle and her concern for her daughter, it was about Barb being denied what she felt she was entitled to.

[CaughtOnTape]

14 hours ago, Lemons said:

The police should only be called in a domestic situation when someone is being threatened or hurt or about to be hurt.  The police aren't on-call to referee family disagreements.  It was obnoxious to get police involved.  What if there was a real emergency going on and they didn't get there on time because David was so distraught about "his" kids hearing such horror.  And we know they have all heard and seen worse.  Barb doesn't have any coping skills but she was reacting to seeing Jace left alone and not being able to reach a his mother to find out what was going on.  Too bad if she yelled and brought up unpleasant things.

No, yelling is not good.   It is bad.  But it's unbelievable that the only thing Drew took a stand on was that Barb yells too much and so does Janelle.  Drew has nothing to say about the drugs, neglect, domestic violence, multiple partners, but damn if he is going to tolerate yelling!

Look, we can all get up on the morality hill of judgment about when cops should and shouldn't be called.  Barb was refusing to leave the house.  That is called trespassing.  And that is a cause for calling the cops.  Only when he got on the phone did she back down and start telling Jace they were leaving.

If Barb were a male and had walked into that house yelling and screaming and refusing to leave, that would be considered harassment.  Everyone would be up in arms over a man talking to a woman that way and trying to intimidate someone else to get what she wanted.  I see no reason why Barb shouldn't be called on the carpet for that as well.  

It wasn't just because she was yelling.  I wish people would stop saying that.

[StatisticalOutlier]

Timeline question (I know, probably a fool's errand given this show):  Does anybody remember how long they said it had been that Barb and Jenelle hadn't seen each other before they had that dinner where Jenelle had to put Barb in an Uber to get home?  And I think David was at that dinner, too--am I right?

I thought it was six months, but that can't possibly be right.

[Chicken Wing]

Quote

 

And this is 100% the reason why things between Barb and Jenelle will never change.  Barb believes she is entitled to whatever Jenelle is doing whenever Barb wants to know about it and if someone gets in her way, then they be damned.

Sorry, but no.  Jenelle is an adult.  Barb didn't give a shit when her daughter was shooting up, having unprotected sex when she was 15 and getting pregnant, why does she feel she's entitled to knowing now?  

It's not MY daughter in MY daughter's house...it's my daughter in her house and I need to respect her wishes when I'm in her house.  Period.  Jenelle didn't come out because Barb was already screaming and yelling and causing a scene.  In that moment, it wasn't about Jenelle and her concern for her daughter, it was about Barb being denied what she felt she was entitled to.

 

Maybe it's my family and my culture, but grown adult or not, if one of us thinks there is a problem with their son or daughter, both hell and high water better get out of the way. Perhaps this is why Barbara's reaction, even without taking into account Barbara's personality as we know it, is totally understandable to me. It's hard to truly imagine, though, because none of us would (a) ever treat or talk to our parents the way Jenelle treats and talks to Barbara, (b) none of us would ever be with a partner who would dare treat or talk to our parents the way David and every one of Jenelle's boyfriends treats and talks to Barbara, (c) none of us would tolerate being treated or spoken to that way by said child or child's partner. The whole dynamic of Jenelle/Barbara/Whoever Jenelle Is Banging At The Moment is just unfathomable. It's one of the reasons this show both fascinates and nauseates me and I can't. stop. watching.

If Jenelle wants Barbara to go away, then she herself could tell her to leave. Fine. But the scene was suspicious and weird, and David wouldn't let her see Jenelle. David came out and locked the bedroom door so Barbara couldn't see her. David was the one telling her to leave. David was the one claiming that Jenelle didn't want to see her. It's her daughter in her daughter's house and the boyfriend is telling her to leave. Fuck him.

And yes, Barbara did care when Jenelle was shooting up. I believe the other time she had the cops called on her by a Jenelle boyfriend, it was Kieffer calling the cops because she was trespassing that time she came to the house and the two of them were all spazzed out after shooting up or getting high on whatever else they were doing. She tried to get Jenelle into help. She was afraid Jenelle was going to end up dead. So, yes, she did give a shit.

Barbara and Jenelle's relationship is toxic as hell. They would each be better off if they just cut ties and called it a day -- Barbara in particular would be better off if she wrote Jenelle off and didn't bother with her, didn't engage, took Jace and left the state and didn't look back. But the cycle keeps going round and round because she won't cut Jenelle off, and I grudgingly understand that because, well, it's her daughter. She can't help it. They will scream and carry on and threaten each other with legal action every five minutes until their dying days, because they'll never cut each other off even though everyone would be the better for it.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[lilmarysunshine]

15 minutes ago, CaughtOnTape said:

If Barb were a male and had walked into that house yelling and screaming and refusing to leave, that would be considered harassment.  Everyone would be up in arms over a man talking to a woman that way and trying to intimidate someone else to get what she wanted.  I see no reason why Barb shouldn't be called on the carpet for that as well.  

It wasn't just because she was yelling.  I wish people would stop saying that.

I think you are absolutely right on saying if it was a man who was belligerent and refusing to leave, reactions would have been different. I think Barbara tends to get a pass on terrible behavior because she's a middle-aged woman with a crappy daughter and she's raising Jace.

But Barbara is a huge part of the problem and it bugs me to see people laugh off her dysfunction as her being tipsy or enjoying the limelight. As said earlier, if she just would disengage from Jenelle, everyone would be a whole lot better off. She doesn't even have to cut her off completely.  Sure she loves Jace but *she* could do much better by him strictly on working on how she REACTS to Jenelle. (And I believe she stokes the fire all of the time with Jenelle and the boyfriends, anyway.).

I personally am sick.to.death of watching she and Jenelle scream and yell at each other over the phone and in person and in front of kids. . She is not just the poor, haggard grandma working at Walmart trying to raise her grandson.

[DangerousMinds]

34 minutes ago, CaughtOnTape said:

And this is 100% the reason why things between Barb and Jenelle will never change.  Barb believes she is entitled to whatever Jenelle is doing whenever Barb wants to know about it and if someone gets in her way, then they be damned.

Sorry, but no.  Jenelle is an adult.  Barb didn't give a shit when her daughter was shooting up, having unprotected sex when she was 15 and getting pregnant, why does she feel she's entitled to knowing now?  

It's not MY daughter in MY daughter's house...it's my daughter in her house and I need to respect her wishes when I'm in her house.  Period.  Jenelle didn't come out because Barb was already screaming and yelling and causing a scene.  In that moment, it wasn't about Jenelle and her concern for her daughter, it was about Barb being denied what she felt she was entitled to.

The difference is Jace is involved now, and Barbara is responsible for him. And I think Barbara WAS very concerned for Jenelle when she was a teen, but wasn't able to do much because she was working so much  in order to put a roof over Jenelle's head and food on her table.

[Chicken Wing]

I really wish we could get more insight into Jenelle's childhood and upbringing, what the household was like when her parents were together but fighting all the time, and I also wonder what Barbara's home life was like even before marriage. Because for both of them, I really feel like they react to each other this way because they literally don't know any other way to engage with someone. They don't know how to communicate or express any thought, any idea, or deal with any conflict without screaming. Some people are just like that. Barbara doesn't seem to know how to react to or engage with Jenelle without going on the offensive, no matter what it is Jenelle is talking about sometimes, but Jenelle does the same thing. I remember the episode earlier this season when Jenelle was at the house with Tori all stressed out about Kaiser's fussing, and Barbara came up the driveway and she barely even said anything at all when Jenelle started lashing out at her and berating her about telling her how to parent her child. They can't even say hello without fighting.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[DangerousMinds]

36 minutes ago, CaughtOnTape said:

And this is 100% the reason why things between Barb and Jenelle will never change.  Barb believes she is entitled to whatever Jenelle is doing whenever Barb wants to know about it and if someone gets in her way, then they be damned.

Sorry, but no.  Jenelle is an adult.  Barb didn't give a shit when her daughter was shooting up, having unprotected sex when she was 15 and getting pregnant, why does she feel she's entitled to knowing now?  

It's not MY daughter in MY daughter's house...it's my daughter in her house and I need to respect her wishes when I'm in her house.  Period.  Jenelle didn't come out because Barb was already screaming and yelling and causing a scene.  In that moment, it wasn't about Jenelle and her concern for her daughter, it was about Barb being denied what she felt she was entitled to.

I don't think that's the reason at all. Jenelle should and could have simply stuck her head out the door and told her mom she was on her way. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

28 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

Barbara and Jenelle's relationship is toxic as hell. They would each be better off if they just cut ties and called it a day -- Barbara in particular would be better off if she wrote Jenelle off and didn't bother with her, didn't engage, took Jace and left the state and didn't look back. But the cycle keeps going round and round because she won't cut Jenelle off, and I grudgingly understand that because, well, it's her daughter. She can't help it. They will scream and carry on and threaten each other with legal action every five minutes until their dying days, because they'll never cut each other off even though everyone would be the better for it.

That's why I'm wondering how long it was that they didn't see each other before having that dinner.  I have a sinking feeling that they're going to be taping the show again, and that's why they were reconnecting, at least enough to start fighting again with Jace in the middle.

[lilmarysunshine]

And another thing about Barbara and her toxicity -- if she felt comfortable enough grilling Jace about Jenelle and how quickly she picks up boyfriends to do it on camera, what does she say to him when there are no cameras?  Jace knew exactly what she was up to with that passive-aggressive conversation. He knew Meme was looking for Jace to throw his mother under the bus by saying she picks up boyfriends quickly. She was playing a sick game with him the same way Jenelle was with the conversation about the custody fight. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

And I think there are times when grilling a kid is appropriate. "Jace, you were wearing a lifejacket on the boat, right?"  Or "Aubree, your dad put a helmet on you when you were on the dirt bike, right?"  But what Barbara was doing?  All she was doing was making sure Jace was aware that his mother is a crappy person.

[Chicken Wing]

Quote

And another thing about Barbara and her toxicity -- if she felt comfortable enough grilling Jace about Jenelle and how quickly she picks up boyfriends to do it on camera, what does she say to him when there are no cameras?  Jace knew exactly what she was up to with that passive-aggressive conversation. He knew Meme was looking for Jace to throw his mother under the bus by saying she picks up boyfriends quickly. 

Jace and Aubree are in the same boat with being grilled about their non-custodial parent. Both of them are so over these passive aggressive fishing expeditions.

[CaughtOnTape]

46 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

Maybe it's my family and my culture, but grown adult or not, if one of us thinks there is a problem with their son or daughter, both hell and high water better get out of the way. Perhaps this is why Barbara's reaction, even without taking into account Barbara's personality as we know it, is totally understandable to me. It's hard to truly imagine, though, because none of us would (a) ever treat or talk to our parents the way Jenelle treats and talks to Barbara, (b) none of us would ever be with a partner who would dare treat or talk to our parents the way David and every one of Jenelle's boyfriends treats and talks to Barbara, (c) none of us would tolerate being treated or spoken to that way by said child or child's partner. The whole dynamic of Jenelle/Barbara/Whoever Jenelle Is Banging At The Moment is just unfathomable. It's one of the reasons this show both fascinates and nauseates me and I can't. stop. watching.

If Jenelle wants Barbara to go away, then she herself could tell her to leave. Fine. But the scene was suspicious and weird, and David wouldn't let her see Jenelle. David came out and locked the bedroom door so Barbara couldn't see her. David was the one telling her to leave. David was the one claiming that Jenelle didn't want to see her. It's her daughter in her daughter's house and the boyfriend is telling her to leave. Fuck him.

And yes, Barbara did care when Jenelle was shooting up. I believe the other time she had the cops called on her by a Jenelle boyfriend, it was Kieffer calling the cops because she was trespassing that time she came to the house and the two of them were all spazzed out after shooting up or getting high on whatever else they were doing. She tried to get Jenelle into help. She was afraid Jenelle was going to end up dead. So, yes, she did give a shit.

Barbara and Jenelle's relationship is toxic as hell. They would each be better off if they just cut ties and called it a day -- Barbara in particular would be better off if she wrote Jenelle off and didn't bother with her, didn't engage, took Jace and left the state and didn't look back. But the cycle keeps going round and round because she won't cut Jenelle off, and I grudgingly understand that because, well, it's her daughter. She can't help it. They will scream and carry on and threaten each other with legal action every five minutes until their dying days, because they'll never cut each other off even though everyone would be the better for it.

There are a whole lot of assumptions in this post.

I never saw anything where Barb tried to get her help.  I never read anything about Barb putting her house up as collateral, or talking to community programs, or discussing intervention tactics, or talking to different specialists to figure out how to get her kid into rehab.  I mean, you're all up in arms over someone getting in YOUR way when your kid is locked in a room because you're "worried for her safety" but from where I sat, Barb did very little other than cry, whine and complain when Jenelle was shooting up and acting crazy.  Look, I'm sure Barb was scared for Jenelle and concerned, but standing around talking to a camera about that does what exactly?  From what I understand, Jenelle either put herself in rehab or was thrown in jail and court ordered to do it...either way Barb had squat to do with getting her kid help.  Now, where I come from, you either put up or shutup.  Barb can't suddenly claim concern for her daughter when she wasn't there when it really counted.  And in the end, I think that is where Jenelle feels resentment towards her mother.

That's my last post on the subject.  I don't support the whole "Barb is so funny.  Look how cute she is.  She deserves a medal because of putting up with Jenelle." idea rolling around.  She is partially to blame for how Jenelle turned out and she's not cute or funny in the least.  She was a terrible mother to Jenelle and also apparently to her other siblings.  (I'm sorry but working to put food on the table is not an excuse)  If Barb would like forgiveness for that, she could maybe try taking a little bit of responsibility for it.  She's constantly screaming and yelling at Jenelle for her avoidance of owning her shit...hm, wonder where she learned it.

[lilmarysunshine]

3 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

Jace and Aubree are in the same boat with being grilled about their non-custodial parent. Both of them are so over these passive aggressive fishing expeditions.

I think it is close to emotionally abusive. It is so wrong to do to these kids. We all know that Jenelle and Adam are terrible parents. But these kids love them because....well....they're their parents. And to basically force a reluctant kid to say something bad about their parent is just mean. I'm thinking of Mary grilling Aubree getting her to basically admit that Cole is a much better father to her than Adam because that's what Chelsea and Mary want to hear, even if it pains Aubree to admit it in a roundabout way. (And Aubree gives major hints to stop it. She says her "real dad" is Adam. But they don't listen to her at all.)

[lilmarysunshine]

6 minutes ago, CaughtOnTape said:

She is partially to blame for how Jenelle turned out and she's not cute or funny in the least.  She was a terrible mother to Jenelle and also apparently to her other siblings.  (I'm sorry but working to put food on the table is not an excuse)  If Barb would like forgiveness for that, she could maybe try taking a little bit of responsibility for it.  She's constantly screaming and yelling at Jenelle for her avoidance of owning her shit...hm, wonder where she learned it.

Agreed. And not only that, to me it seems like she's always blaming Jenelle's boyfriends for all of the problems. Now David is the worst one of the bunch.  Uh....I'm thinking of Keifer and Jenelle passed out on some kind of heroine binge. Seriously?  No doubt Jenelle picks shitty boyfriends but that's because it is who she is! 

There have been rumors for years that Barbara is an alcoholic (also mentioned by that cameraman a couple of years ago) and I can believe it.

[ReadMeLattice]

2 minutes ago, lilmarysunshine said:

Agreed. And not only that, to me it seems like she's always blaming Jenelle's boyfriends for all of the problems. Now David is the worst one of the bunch.  Uh....I'm thinking of Keifer and Jenelle passed out on some kind of heroine binge. Seriously?  No doubt Jenelle picks shitty boyfriends but that's because it is who she is! 

There have been rumors for years that Barbara is an alcoholic (also mentioned by that cameraman a couple of years ago) and I can believe it.

I can too, actually. Being an alcoholic is as dangerous and serious as being any other kind of drug addict, as we've seen with Nathan. 

[Chicken Wing]

Quote

I never saw anything where Barb tried to get her help.  I never read anything about Barb putting her house up as collateral, or talking to community programs, or discussing intervention tactics, or talking to different specialists to figure out how to get her kid into rehab.  I mean, you're all up in arms over someone getting in YOUR way when your kid is locked in a room because you're "worried for her safety" but from where I sat, Barb did very little other than cry, whine and complain when Jenelle was shooting up and acting crazy.  Look, I'm sure Barb was scared for Jenelle and concerned, but standing around talking to a camera about that does what exactly?  From what I understand, Jenelle either put herself in rehab or was thrown in jail and court ordered to do it...either way Barb had squat to do with getting her kid help. 

That season was a million years ago so my memory is a little fuzzy on the details, but I think it was Barbara who tried to get Jenelle committed to the hospital or rehab place or whatever. She checked herself out.

** Had a flashback at lunch and looked for episode recaps to confirm: Yes, Barbara was the one who tried to get Jenelle committed over the heroin addiction. It was the season 4 finale. After the whole nonsense with Kieffer calling the cops on Barbara and Mike (I miss Mike) and realizing how bad things were over there, Barbara decided her last resort was to go to the sheriff's office about Jenelle and report her as being a danger to herself so they could put her on a hold and hopefully commit her and if Jenelle never speaks to her again over it so be it but she has to try before it's too late. So she did, and the sheriff picked Jenelle up and took her in. They evaluated her but they couldn't find just cause to commit her so when they were done Jenelle signed herself out and went home. But Barbara tried. She tried to get her help. She did in fact give a shit.

Quote

Barb can't suddenly claim concern for her daughter when she wasn't there when it really counted.  And in the end, I think that is where Jenelle feels resentment towards her mother.

Like stepping in to assume guardianship of Jenelle's infant son before the authorities came and took him away against Jenelle's will for neglect or God knows what else might have happened, and has been raising him ever since? Is that when Barbara wasn't there when it counted?

Frankly, I think Jenelle is just spoiled and she resents Barbara for "stealing" Jace and not giving him back, as well as likely a number of other things, because she's a spoiled brat who was never taught any respect for anyone or anything. And Barbara shoulders some of the blame for that. She raised her.

Quote

That's my last post on the subject.  I don't support the whole "Barb is so funny.  Look how cute she is.  She deserves a medal because of putting up with Jenelle." idea rolling around.

I happen to find Barbara funny, too, but for me at least that has nothing to do with this, or anything else. She's a hoot and a half ... as well as a harsh, abrasive disaster of a woman who is, I agree, at least partly to blame for Jenelle turning out the way she has. The two sides are mutually exclusive.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[Chicken Wing]

Quote

 I'm thinking of Mary grilling Aubree getting her to basically admit that Cole is a much better father to her than Adam because that's what Chelsea and Mary want to hear, even if it pains Aubree to admit it in a roundabout way. (And Aubree gives major hints to stop it. She says her "real dad" is Adam. But they don't listen to her at all.)

That scene was sooooo uncomfortable. I felt so bad for Aubree. She loves Cole, but she loves her real dad, too, and it makes her feel bad to have to say things about him that she knows make him look bad.

Like when she came back from visiting with Adam after he missed the dance, and Chelsea asked her what he said was the reason he didn't go to the dance. Aubree claimed she didn't remember just what he said. Of course she remembers. But she also knows what her mother is doing.

[BitterApple]

41 minutes ago, lilmarysunshine said:

 

There have been rumors for years that Barbara is an alcoholic (also mentioned by that cameraman a couple of years ago) and I can believe it.

I believe it as well. One of the things that didn't make sense was her refusal to meet Jenelle halfway to pick up Jace during the Gone Fishing episode. I think Barb was pretty deep into her wine and didn't want to drive.

[lilmarysunshine]

Just now, BitterApple said:

I believe it as well. One of the things that didn't make sense was her refusal to meet Jenelle halfway to pick up Jace during the Gone Fishing episode. I think Barb was pretty deep into her wine and didn't want to drive.

Poor Jace.

[Brooklynista]

17 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I believe it as well. One of the things that didn't make sense was her refusal to meet Jenelle halfway to pick up Jace during the Gone Fishing episode. I think Barb was pretty deep into her wine and didn't want to drive.

But that really wasn't fair to Barb.  If the original agreement was Janelle was going to drive Jace back to Barb, Barb was within her right to knock back a glass or three.  She wasn't going to be driving, she really didn't need to be worried about driving tipsy.  Janelle rewrote the rules and expected Barb to skip to her lou.  What if Barb had picked up an extra shift at Walmart or had taken a day trip?  Would Janelle have just left Jace at the rest stop?

[Lemons]

2 hours ago, CaughtOnTape said:

Look, we can all get up on the morality hill of judgment about when cops should and shouldn't be called.  Barb was refusing to leave the house.  That is called trespassing.  And that is a cause for calling the cops.  Only when he got on the phone did she back down and start telling Jace they were leaving.

If Barb were a male and had walked into that house yelling and screaming and refusing to leave, that would be considered harassment.  Everyone would be up in arms over a man talking to a woman that way and trying to intimidate someone else to get what she wanted.  I see no reason why Barb shouldn't be called on the carpet for that as well.  

It wasn't just because she was yelling.  I wish people would stop saying that.

Barb has had many inappropriate conversations before but I don't remember this being one of them.  She demanded to know where Jenelle was and why wasn't anyone watching the kids.  The kids told her that Jenelle is always "sleeping" in  her room.  Her daughter's current boyfriend came out of the bedroom, quickly shut the door and told her that Jenelle didn't want to see her.  Still no explanation of why no one was watching the kids.  Would you leave at this point?  I wouldn't.   

I picture a man coming in concerned about the kids and Jenelle and I don't see the scene any differently.  And it's not trespassing because a guest in the house asks you to leave.  It's not David's house, he is not on the lease, he doesn't get to say who stays and leaves.  I would have gone one step further and asks them to do a well being check on Jenelle because I was concerned about her new boyfriend and his history of violence.

[ReadMeLattice]

The crux of my feelings on Barb/Jenelle is this: I generally agree with all of Barb's impulses and sentiments about the disturbing and abusive things happening around her, but the way she expresses them isn't just unpleasant, but abusive and disturbing in and of itself. She doesn't just exacerbate, she causes a whole new problem. 

[Chicken Wing]

There's always two problems going on with Barbara and Jenelle at the same time: Whatever it is they're arguing about, and the fact that they're actually talking to each other about it. No good ever comes of that. Barbara will say something or raise her voice and Jenelle would go off and then they're both off.