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S08.E09: December: Berkshires County


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(edited)

I've thought a lot about not-surprising death of so many of the marriages across the different franchises.  I think some were already on the rocks and some suffered a more sudden death, in large part because of the way it "changed" the women - or maybe just furthered their desire for independence, narcissism, selfishness, hunger for fame....whichever apply.  I'm surprised more marriages haven't ended up in the reality tv graveyard, honestly.  As somebody else said earlier in one of these threads, though - in most cases there's some level of narcissism to begin with in order to sign on for such a thing.  I do think there have been a few rare exceptions, however.

Edited by straightshooter
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1 hour ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Lu said she didn't know, but it sounds like the other gals believe that Lu did know and that this was one of the reasons she eventually hooked up with him.  Dorinda has said she introduced them, but Lu said the timing wasn't right for a while and it took them several months before they actually made contact.  Carole said that she knew Ramona was going out with him because she had seen them out together, so it is hardly a surprise to imagine that Lu would have known about it as well.  

I could be wrong about this, but I get the impression that the others felt at the time that Lu was hooking up with this guy for a storyline. Might be true, might not be, but with her history I can see others thinking this might be the case. It sounds like he might be a bit of a famewhore. Didn't someone else mention that they spotted this guy in an earlier season hitting on Ramona at a bar? He has dated Sonja, Lu and Ramona. 

Of course the others are going to say that Luann knew, because they are mad at her and needed a storyline.  What is the big deal?  Ramona has said she won't tell Luann who she is going out with, so is Luann suppose to question men and find out who they have dated before she dates them?  Sounds pretty teenager. 

Before it becomes a fact on this page, let's just say a couple of posters have said there is a resemblance to a man from Season 1.  It has not been confirmed by Ramona, Tom or Luann or production who would have a signed waiver.  Since the RHNY was not part of the mix when the scene was shot,  would it not be premature to call the guy a famewhore?  So if he was just a random guy in a bar that was part of a group of guys that bought the ladies drinks eight years ago, he has certainly taken his time to get back in the fray.

I am far more curious how Dorinda knows Tom, for how long and if she were the person that introduced him to Ramona.  if she was if it was before or after she introduced him to Ramona.

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I had never seen Season 1 before and was one that was questioning whether Tom was actually in that bar scene.  It was a very quick clip that I saw but I'm not so sure that he was 'hitting on' Ramona.  There were two men there.

I personally find it hard to believe that Sonja 'dated' any man for 10 years without getting a ring out of it especially if the man was wealthy.  We all know what Sonja would do for a black card.  And, the other ladies would have known about it.  As far as Ramona dating him, I find it plausible since it was only a brief time.  If Lu and Tom's relationship is the real deal, then I could see Bravo (and Lu) exploiting the relationship for storyline purposes.  Just my opinion. 

Tom might just be a guy that is up for anything.  Apparently Harry Dubin had enough.  :D

I find it interesting that Season 1 was replayed.  Bravo usually does Season 3 when all the crazy happened.  I could be wrong.  I haven't been overly involved in the HWs for some time.

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6 minutes ago, Ellee said:

I had never seen Season 1 before and was one that was questioning whether Tom was actually in that bar scene.  It was a very quick clip that I saw but I'm not so sure that he was 'hitting on' Ramona.  There were two men there.

I personally find it hard to believe that Sonja 'dated' any man for 10 years without getting a ring out of it especially if the man was wealthy.  We all know what Sonja would do for a black card.  And, the other ladies would have known about it.  As far as Ramona dating him, I find it plausible since it was only a brief time.  If Lu and Tom's relationship is the real deal, then I could see Bravo (and Lu) exploiting the relationship for storyline purposes.  Just my opinion. 

Tom might just be a guy that is up for anything.  Apparently Harry Dubin had enough.  :D

I find it interesting that Season 1 was replayed.  Bravo usually does Season 3 when all the crazy happened.  I could be wrong.  I haven't been overly involved in the HWs for some time.

In regard to the part I bolded, Ramona herself described the exchange as his having hit on her (maybe she even said he was "hitting on them", I don't recall exactly) but of course we'll only be able to guess about his true intent from what we are shown.  In my opinion, though, it looked to me like he was more interested in the other two women - mainly the brunette.  That's just the feeling I got when I watched the marathon on Saturday and when it aired during that season.  

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On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 4:10 PM, Gaily said:

Bravo is now running the very first season of RHNY from 2008 and I am struck by the following:

1.  How natural and organic the show used to be. Don't get me wrong. I still love it but there was far less staged drama, cat fights and slugfests and the families/spouses/kids were shown more often which I really liked.

2. I really like the old Jill Zarin, the one from seasons one and two -- the kind, down-to-earth mensch -- who was pretty great.  Too bad the show turned her into a competitive, bitter socialite because she's a great gal at her core.

3.  Ramona was still nuts but looked so young, pretty and in-shape, good her her.  She looks so much prettier with less makeup and a fresh natural look. Avery was always such a  lovely, poised  young lady.  That makes me like Ramona even more.

4.  Mario was always such a huge flirt.  Ramona, you are well rid of him and you can do better.

5.  Bethenny was always a really pretty, fresh-looking young lady. I always adored the old Bethenny who was so smart, funny and feisty -- the so-called underdog who was actually much better than any of the posers around her.  I loved her boyfriend Jason and was sad they did not end up together. I think he lost his job because of RHNY but found a better one eventually.

6.  Damn was LuAnn gorgeous and her Hamptons home with the Count was lovely. It must have been really hard for her when the Count fell in love with the Ethiopian princess and left her.  But give LuAnn credit --- she went through that trauma, didn't break a sweat or break down in front of others and carried on without skipping a beat. Talk about resilient.  She's a strong Taurus. (Sorry for the astrology -- I just love my fellow earth signs, Taurus and Capricorn.)

7. Alex and Simon are, at once, both adorable and insufferable.  They are so pretentious and obnoxious, plus they let their kids run wild and think that's endearing (NOT).  But they are intelligent, erudite,interesting and, at the end of the day, not mean or unkind. I miss them.

I agree - I was really enjoying the hell out of the season 1 reruns. It's been SO long since I've seen those!  Couple comments about your comments (bolded).

-Ramona did look really great didn't she? Even better when you consider she was still over 50 in that first season! Hair was natural, and her figure was on point.  However, I always felt like there was something "off" with the color of her face? It looked very .... ruddy or something?  I always wondered if that was from getting certain facial treatments like dermabrasion ... or just the wrong color of foundation? 

-Bethenny was prettier than I remember her being.  The jaw though, man, the jaw...  Getting that fixed - no matter how she did it - was on the best decisions she ever made, aesthetically.

-Lu was truly flawless back then - I mean she's still gorgeous today, but back then... wooooooowwww (FF voice). I went on to watch a few episodes of season 2 on Hulu and the scene where she's accepting the award from the American Cancer Society ... and she's wearing that long white dress? Absolutely STUNNING.  But DAMN she was kind of a hosebeast back then too!  She was an asshole to Rosie (love her!), her kids, her fellow housewives.  Did.not.like.

On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 3:23 PM, NewDigs said:

And who knows just how successful SkinnyGirl would have been w/o the Housewives attachment? Jill did her a favor getting her on a "Manhattan Moms" show that morphed into a "Housewives" show w/ Bethy being neither.

I think B would give Jill a run for her money in a meanest girl race. And win.

And, yeah, what was Carole's Asian/board-game/organized comment? Was it maybe a shot at Jules's constant referencing of her ancestry? Odd.

I think I totally misheard that scene. I thought Carole was saying it was very Asian of Jules to bring gifts for everybody, not necessarily games.  But, now that I think of it, IS is "Asian" to bring gifts?  Either way, yeah, it was a very weird thing to say.... and not exactly, um, "PC."  Thought I doubt Jules took offense, others watching the show just might.

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LuAnn also called George (Aviva's dad) a pedophile. And as much as I couldn't stand George, I thought that was unfair. (And there was nothing we saw on the show to suggest that George's lechery extended to preying on children.) Maybe this is LuAnn's go-to insult.

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I don't think Luann is screwing only "men of means" I mean come on now, that pirate with a hotel show gig? 

Ditto. Ramona alluded to a carpenter in a TH, and that 20something she was hanging out with at Beautique was not going to give her the lifestyle she wanted. And it's been established that Harry Dubin has no money. Maybe she only gets serious with men with money, though. Jacques was reportedly pretty well-off.

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(edited)
11 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I don't think Luann is screwing only "men of means" I mean come on now, that pirate with a hotel show gig?  I think she wants to marry a man of a certain amount of means though, since she's not really bringing in income of her own, aside from her pay to play real housewife gig.  I think she has sex for fun, and more power to that!  I think she always has, and that's why the original cast had issues with her white glove, pinky finger raised, look down her nose, "Oh Darrrrrlings, that's just not done!" pretensions.   I love a woman with a healthy sexual appetite, and see nothing at all wrong with that, and while there is no need to share details, at least drop the ladylike dating rules crap.

She's been a piece of work for a long time, but I did really like her last year.  I hope we continue to get the fun Luann, but she has such an air of desperation about her this year.  Maybe now that she's engaged she'll relax and calm down some.

I have a question how many times does she have to drop the ladylike dating rules crap? I think where it truly goes south for me is that because she was sooooooo snobby in her first few seasons and gave her little tid bits about class that, now in the present day, when she has her little escapades, she's being taken to task by connecting current Lu with Lu from seasons past. Quite honestly, it's the way they seem to be chiding her current behavior while siting shit she isn't really doing anymore. The connection that Beth and the others are using in order to try and call Lu out on shit kinda isn't there anymore so to me it makes no sense that this is taken to such an elaborate degree. Hey you wanna list out your grievances and get it off your chest then at the very least express it in the current manner. The manner that would probably make you seem even more petty, childish, immature than the crazy ranting.

This is how I see it. Lu isn't as beat you over the head Countessy anymore so I'm not getting what it is they are yelling her to own? It doesn't feel like the other women are living in present time when they have their little outbursts over the way Lu's living her life now. It's like own it, own it, own it and I feel like this is what they wanted to say to the Lu of season's past. Now that she's more open about certain things it doesn't really make any sense when she's not exactly hiding much. It seems like Lu's very reasonable discretion and or not as crass or vulnerable discussion of certain things equals "oh here's the Countess again" annoyance. It's like they expect her to use the most disrespectful and inappropriate of ways when talking to them in order to prove she's not slipping back into "old habits". It is really bizarre logic.

What's really going on is this:

"You know what Lu it's very annoying to see you a liberal as you've been lately knowing that in the past you were such a hard ass about Class this, Class that, one shouldn't, one should and all that crap and here ya are breaking about 15 of your very own rules a day without a care in the world whereas others were to be chided for it. I gotta tell ya Lu I'm happy with this new freer you but it does rub the wrong way on occasion that you are now doing all these things with no one taking YOU to task so you could see how it feels".

The above is what's going on with the others in a nutshell. They want to stick it to her and when you see it for what it is it's so fucking ridiculous for a number of reasons:

A) Cause basically it's about revenge for something so ridiculously minor that it shouldn't even fester this long to warrant "revenge"

B) Beth told Lu about herself at the time so there's no real "missed opportunity" Beth is making up for and Carole's been hitting back for some time now too so there's that.

C) Lu wasn't that bad (I'm talking in regards to the class stuff). It was annoying and rude at best, with a little bit of catty I'll add.

What I'm really getting annoyed with is that the few truly involved conflicts that Lu had in the past with cast members get lumped into this overall description of Lu's wrongs regarding "The Countess" thing. During Lu's run on the show the ongoing theme is her Class crap which I felt on it's worse day was rather obnoxious and annoying at the most. (Well not to me but I can accept that it was a serious issue with some of the cast). Sort of like pet peeve territory on a bit of a higher scale. Kinda like you and your friend go out to eat and you realize that your friend is a shitty tipper. That sorta thing is important but at the same time you're not dumping your friend for 10 years over it so that's how I see some of Lu's class crap. Ya deal, ya roll your eyes, it's not the nicest thing to do but anyway... Then you have the actual conflicts that had some basis to them. It's like when Lu gets teared into it's all about the Countess thing but then that bleeds into real situations like what happened with her and Alex and I just hate the muddy contexts.

-Her issue with Alex didn't just happen in a vacuum. Alex's desperation and awkwardness set Lu up to be the villain and she the victim and Lu just didn't go down like that. I didn't find anything wrong with the way Lu treated Alex cause Alex herself was pretty snobbish too and was trying to set the stage for Lu being a representative of something that the little person should take down and well it didn't work. Now, of course there are different perspectives of that ordeal but my point is there was some substance there. It wasn't just Lu doing "Class thing" to Alex. It was a more involved issue that Alex can take some responsibility for.

-Same with Carole. Right, Wrong, beat to death whatever. There were details and circumstances surrounding that. Lu didn't just saunter over to Carole wielding Class advice like "Dahling, chapter 34 of my Class with the Countess book pointedly outlines that what you're doing is defined as being a pedophile". The circumstances were more involved than just Lu pulling out a Countess move just cause.

-Jill and Beth. Again Lu was invested in the friendships to a certain degree. And was included BY JILL to be in the mix so to speak with regards to her conflict with Beth. I thought it was a dumb move but it was done based on Jill confiding with her about the situation as well as turning to her a few times about it. By the time Beth and Jill had their sit down Lu felt she had enough insight into the situation based on what information she had and what she's observed up to that point to make a move during the situation. Right or wrong she didn't just barge in and start lecturing about class darhling.

I feel the Class thing and the actual conflicts that have arisen over the seasons involving her don't go hand in hand and I'm tired of them chalking it all up to "she thinks she's above everyone" when in fact there were some very valid reasons behind some of her actions so it's not like she's just this two dimensional cartoon that runs around spouting Class one liners. It's annoying. I mean if there are going to be forced conflicts then at least present the grievances clearly and express something that has some semblance to an actual issue and not just a big ball of pet peeves that Lu sets off in you cause I gotta tell you, all these "issues" all just sound like a bunch of pet peeves to me. We all have 'em, we all live with 'em and we all learn, now this is a very grown up word, TOLERANCE. Unless something is continuously pointed at you and there's a real risk that it's meant to reach an abusive degree then get the fuck over it. Or put a system in place to handle what the biggest trigger is in YOU cause you can't change other people and how they trigger YOUR pet peeves.

I'm not too nice with my system. If I feel there's someone that gives off negative energy that will definitely set off my pet peeves I let them know what it is about them and their behavior that gets under my skin, let 'em know I don't plan on reacting nasty towards them but I will be blunt so please be aware of this detail if you find the need to be around me. Done. I've had shocked reactions in the past but at the same time a lot of times the straight forwardness is received well cause it lets them know that it's not necessarily all about them but my own little issues too and it also lets them know I'm willing to work with them if they are willing to work with me on it and that sort of openness can sometimes start things off rather well cause there's no guessing involved and I've made it clear that I can be honest about things even if it's not so nice but I'm also not going to pretend in your face and then complain about the hour I had to spend with you to someone behind your back or create an unsettling environment by giving off bad vibes that just linger in the air and make things even more uncomfortable which serves no one's purpose.

See, Beth has the abruptness down, and the straightforwardness however she doesn't do anything worth anything with it. It's such a waste. She just chooses to be an asshole instead of re-purposing her gift of "being real" <eyeroll>and "being honest" <eyeroll> into positive interactions. The reason I can't stand Beth is that I can be like Beth and have on occasion but I don't relish the kill and I don't desire the need to inflict pain unnecessarily. I recognized exactly what Beth was about the minute I saw her on day one and wanted to see how she would wield this trait about herself, one that I am very familiar with, and I was spot on. You see I do my very best (but I'm no saint) to harness the ugliness that comes with being overtly honest and blunt or at the very least re-purpose it depending on the circumstances. It's all about proportion. More blunt, less blunt, gloves on gloves off but with Beth it is always without a doubt gloves off and that to me is just all kinds of no bueno. I can't get passed it. Just can't.

Edited by Yours Truly
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"LuAnn claims Ramona only went on one date with Tom, but when she turns to Ms. Singer to confirm, Ramona sheepishly smiles and says they went on seven dates. LuAnn: 'Oh, seven? And I don't care because it was before I met him.'"

This really slayed me. She ranted for MONTHS about Carole dating someone her niece used to date, but when Luann does something similar -- worse, even, as Ramona is a close friend -- she just shrugs it off. Bethenny may not go about it in the right way, but she's not wrong for calling out Luann's hypocrisy.

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(edited)
16 minutes ago, pbutler111 said:

"LuAnn claims Ramona only went on one date with Tom, but when she turns to Ms. Singer to confirm, Ramona sheepishly smiles and says they went on seven dates. LuAnn: 'Oh, seven? And I don't care because it was before I met him.'"

This really slayed me. She ranted for MONTHS about Carole dating someone her niece used to date, but when Luann does something similar -- worse, even, as Ramona is a close friend -- she just shrugs it off. Bethenny may not go about it in the right way, but she's not wrong for calling out Luann's hypocrisy.

I think she shrugged it off cause she was being put on the spot for about 500 things in that moment. I cringed when she did that though and it just goes to show that although Lu can be unflappable at times there is a time limit. Eventually the sweat threatens to show so she ends up pulling out those sort of gems that completely tank and does her no favors. I mean she was being raked over the coals and the reasons were being spit out like darts. I'm not surprised she wasn't maunevering too well towards the end. I mean, she held some footing throughout slipped a bit then regained some again but no she didn't get out of that complete unscathed I have to admit however in the face of that torrential bullshit? She still came out looking a whole lot better than most of that group. At least in my opinion anyway.

Edited by Yours Truly
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56 minutes ago, Duke2801 said:

 

 

8 minutes ago, pbutler111 said:

"LuAnn claims Ramona only went on one date with Tom, but when she turns to Ms. Singer to confirm, Ramona sheepishly smiles and says they went on seven dates. LuAnn: 'Oh, seven? And I don't care because it was before I met him.'"

This really slayed me. She ranted for MONTHS about Carole dating someone her niece used to date, but when Luann does something similar -- worse, even, as Ramona is a close friend -- she just shrugs it off. Bethenny may not go about it in the right way, but she's not wrong for calling out Luann's hypocrisy.

The huge difference is Carole knew Luann's niece had dated Adam, pursued him at Luann's house, told others she knew Luann would be upset and then sheepishly told Luann who reacted inappropriately.  Adam and Nicole did travel together after he and Carole hooked up.

So now Luann discovers after dating Tom he had dated Ramona, with the emphasis on no sex or romance involved.  In Ramona's own words, "no chemistry".  Ramona goes on to say she won't share who she is dating with Luann.  How is Luann being a hypocrite for not telling Ramona?  Ramona has made it clear her dating life is none of Luann's business, as Bethenny has.  Bethenny is full of it and it is none of her business and promulgating she knows what Luann and Tom said and did, and when they had sex and delivering the news to Ramona first instead of Luann is hypocritical on Bethenny's part. 

Ramona s not a good or close friend of Luann's or Sonja's.  She is a nasty mouther back stabber who has gone out of her way every time she sees Sonja or Luann to insult or humiliate them.  I don't think Luann has ever said an unkind word about her niece. 

Ramona, Carole and Bethenny have set the bar and do not want Luann in their love lives.  So how is it Luann is a hypocrite for not keeping them posted on hers?  I just don't get it.

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15 minutes ago, pbutler111 said:

"LuAnn claims Ramona only went on one date with Tom, but when she turns to Ms. Singer to confirm, Ramona sheepishly smiles and says they went on seven dates. LuAnn: 'Oh, seven? And I don't care because it was before I met him.'"

This really slayed me. She ranted for MONTHS about Carole dating someone her niece used to date, but when Luann does something similar -- worse, even, as Ramona is a close friend -- she just shrugs it off. Bethenny may not go about it in the right way, but she's not wrong for calling out Luann's hypocrisy.

The circumstances are completely different so that doesn't fall into the category of hypocrisy. Now Luann said that she doesn't date people in their 20s because she had children in that age range and it's too weird for him (then she made a horrible dig at Carole not having children so she wouldn't understand that decision). Now Bethenny claimed that Luann complained about Adam's age when Luann has slept with a 25 year old. If this is true (which Bethenny hasn't really said anything other than throw out that the accusation to which Luann has denied), then that would fall into the category of hypocrisy. 

Context is often forgotten when it's convenient. Bethenny wants to ignore context because it would mean that Bethenny has one less insult to hurl all Luann but I bet if Luann flung it in her face that Bethenny is dating and likely has slept with at least one man in the past 4 years despite still being MARRIED, Bethenny would be outraged at that implication and talk about the circumstances of her situation and suggest that Luann is stupid for comparing the two.

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(edited)

Something I've been meaning to bring up in the Carole-Adam-Lu discussion is that somewhere within that hour and the screaming match it was said that LuLu screwed Adam before he started dating Carole.  I've been meaning to rewatch it but haven't.  This to me makes a lot more sense to the Carole-Lu fight than the Adam dated my niece fight. 

Did I really hear this?

LOL, still wish I was part of the storyline meetings.  It's evident that this is the year of the LuLu. She must have drawn the short straw.

ETA:  Will pass on the pedophile comment.  I'd hurt somebody if they said that about me.  I would.  I'd have to. 

Edited by Ellee
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(edited)
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I don't get this.  Maybe it would make sense if Bethenny went to Luann and said, "how can you act like such a prude, you called Carole a pedophile!"

Yeah, or if Luann had called Beth a pedophile. As it is, Beth's issues with Luann and Luann calling Carole a pedophile is apples and spaceships.

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Again, Beth was wrong and that is on her, but certainly after what Lu said she deserves to have every single minute of her private life thrown around for people to mock and judge as they so desire. 

That's like saying Mario was wrong to cheat, but Ramona deserved it because she threw a glass a Kristen.

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I should create a drink called The Slutty Girl and then watch Bethenny lose her bitter-hearted, foul-mouthed "I sound just like Regan from "The Exorcist" mind. 

evileyes.gif

Edited by jaync
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20 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

The huge difference is Carole knew Luann's niece had dated Adam, pursued him at Luann's house, told others she knew Luann would be upset and then sheepishly told Luann who reacted inappropriately.  Adam and Nicole did travel together after he and Carole hooked up.

One of the things I think got lost in translation is that Luann felt protective/motherly about her niece.  This is why she was so upset about Carole dating Adam.  To her, it almost felt like Carole was dating a guy who was her daughter's former boyfriend.  Add on the fact that the niece was hurt about it and the timeline seems messy as far as when he stopped dating one and started with the other.  This is why, Luann lobbed some of the uglier insults at Carole.  I don't agree with how either of them handled this, but it might give some insight on how she feels.  At any rate, they're all big girls and it should be over.  They should be gracious enough to let it go.  Carole doesn't have to be Lu's bestie, but to refuse to toast with her was so immature.  

The whole thing with Tom is totally apples and spaceships to me.  Also, I get really irritated when these women get their noses out of joint over not being asked for permission to date someone.  Do Tom or Adam have any say it the matter??  I think the Adam matter would not have been such an issue if he had been dating Luann instead of her niece.  

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I get really tired of the gals making fun of Luann's voice and physical appearance (i.e. so tall) 
It was funny at first calling her LuMann but this has gotten really old. 
When Carole came into the Berkshires house and said she heard Beth arguing with some man it was definitely a dig.  BTW I can't stand Carole this season and agree with others that she is up B's butt.
Luann can be really passive aggressive and gives as good as she gets but the constant comparison to a man and the slut shaming is tired and old.  And this coming from a viewer that isn't a Luann fan.

Another thing that is bugging me about the whole Beth/Luann fight is that Beth went and talked about Luann (imo trying to get everyone on her side) behind her back but when she heard Lu doing the same thing she jumped right on top of her to continue the conflict.    Then she used the excuse that Lu is coming after her brrrrand.  Baloney. 

I feel Beth wants to be the HBIC and wants to take down anyone who doesn't fawn over her. 

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24 minutes ago, Normades said:

One of the things I think got lost in translation is that Luann felt protective/motherly about her niece.  This is why she was so upset about Carole dating Adam.  To her, it almost felt like Carole was dating a guy who was her daughter's former boyfriend.  Add on the fact that the niece was hurt about it and the timeline seems messy as far as when he stopped dating one and started with the other.  This is why, Luann lobbed some of the uglier insults at Carole.  I don't agree with how either of them handled this, but it might give some insight on how she feels.  At any rate, they're all big girls and it should be over.  They should be gracious enough to let it go.  Carole doesn't have to be Lu's bestie, but to refuse to toast with her was so immature.  

The whole thing with Tom is totally apples and spaceships to me.  Also, I get really irritated when these women get their noses out of joint over not being asked for permission to date someone.  Do Tom or Adam have any say it the matter??  I think the Adam matter would not have been such an issue if he had been dating Luann instead of her niece.  

I don't think Lu was ever mad at Carole for dating Adam because of her niece. I don't even think she was ever mad at Carole for dating him at all. If she had been mad, why didn't she show it at the time? Why did she say things like "we'll work it out", or "it's fine" if she was mad at her? Why did they travel together, laugh with other? Why did Lu still invite Carole to her Hamptons Pad for weekends after she found out about Adam if she was mad at her? Why didn't we ever see her mad at Carole on the show? Because she wasn't mad at her. Was it perhaps a bit uncomfortable? I think that it might have been, but we don't know for sure. She certainly wasn't mad. She wasn't mad at her until the season ended. She wasn't mad until she needed a reason to be mad at Carole because she was afraid she was going to end the season looking bad. I will always believe that if Kristen hadn't uttered the words "Lu's guy was married" that things would have been different. That is when it all changed. Lu didn't seem to mind the girls coming into her room, didn't seem mad at anyone, and seemed to be enjoying the attention of looking completely awesome strutting around in her Yummie Tummie's on camera first thing in the morning. She was having a great time, until Kristen said those words. Suddenly the party was over and she realized that the old Lu - the one who was in a committed relationship with someone - but still fucked a Pirate on vacation and lied about it, even though cameras are all around - is in danger of being outed again. She acted casual about the notion that he was married, but I always thought she looked spooked that this was said on camera. Who wouldn't believe that a gal who cheated on someone she apparently loved greatly would have any big qualms about playing around with someone in a committed relationship? Exactly nobody. I think that is when she decided she needed a reason to be really pissed about things that she wasn't really pissed about, and she was going to need to take some people out. And she did. She couldn't even keep the reason she was mad about Adam straight. Was it about her niece, or was it because he was the "help" (which was what she started saying during the last half of the season in interviews)? Was it because of his age? She said that she had no problem with Carole fucking him, but didn't understand her wanting to be in a relationship with him. She couldn't keep her faux anger straight. 

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1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

 

The huge difference is Carole knew Luann's niece had dated Adam, pursued him at Luann's house, told others she knew Luann would be upset and then sheepishly told Luann who reacted inappropriately.  Adam and Nicole did travel together after he and Carole hooked up.

So now Luann discovers after dating Tom he had dated Ramona, with the emphasis on no sex or romance involved.  In Ramona's own words, "no chemistry".  Ramona goes on to say she won't share who she is dating with Luann.  How is Luann being a hypocrite for not telling Ramona?  Ramona has made it clear her dating life is none of Luann's business, as Bethenny has.  Bethenny is full of it and it is none of her business and promulgating she knows what Luann and Tom said and did, and when they had sex and delivering the news to Ramona first instead of Luann is hypocritical on Bethenny's part. 

Ramona s not a good or close friend of Luann's or Sonja's.  She is a nasty mouther back stabber who has gone out of her way every time she sees Sonja or Luann to insult or humiliate them.  I don't think Luann has ever said an unkind word about her niece. 

Ramona, Carole and Bethenny have set the bar and do not want Luann in their love lives.  So how is it Luann is a hypocrite for not keeping them posted on hers?  I just don't get it.

And it seems that Carole has confirmed via twitter that her and Lu did get to be close friends. That lends weight to how these situations differ. But there is a lot more backstory that proves that without this detail but there ya go.

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8 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I don't think Lu was ever mad at Carole for dating Adam because of her niece. I don't even think she was ever mad at Carole for dating him at all. If she had been mad, why didn't she show it at the time? Why did she say things like "we'll work it out", or "it's fine" if she was mad at her? Why did they travel together, laugh with other? Why did Lu still invite Carole to her Hamptons Pad for weekends after she found out about Adam if she was mad at her? Why didn't we ever see her mad at Carole on the show? Because she wasn't mad at her. Was it perhaps a bit uncomfortable? I think that it might have been, but we don't know for sure. She certainly wasn't mad. She wasn't mad at her until the season ended. She wasn't mad until she needed a reason to be mad at Carole because she was afraid she was going to end the season looking bad. I will always believe that if Kristen hadn't uttered the words "Lu's guy was married" that things would have been different. That is when it all changed. Lu didn't seem to mind the girls coming into her room, didn't seem mad at anyone, and seemed to be enjoying the attention of looking completely awesome strutting around in her Yummie Tummie's on camera first thing in the morning. She was having a great time, until Kristen said those words. Suddenly the party was over and she realized that the old Lu - the one who was in a committed relationship with someone - but still fucked a Pirate on vacation and lied about it, even though cameras are all around - is in danger of being outed again. She acted casual about the notion that he was married, but I always thought she looked spooked that this was said on camera. Who wouldn't believe that a gal who cheated on someone she apparently loved greatly would have any big qualms about playing around with someone in a committed relationship? Exactly nobody. I think that is when she decided she needed a reason to be really pissed about things that she wasn't really pissed about, and she was going to need to take some people out. And she did. She couldn't even keep the reason she was mad about Adam straight. Was it about her niece, or was it because he was the "help" (which was what she started saying during the last half of the season in interviews)? Was it because of his age? She said that she had no problem with Carole fucking him, but didn't understand her wanting to be in a relationship with him. She couldn't keep her faux anger straight. 

I don't think Luann was faux angry, I think she was uncomfortable and disapproving namely because she did make shady comments during the filming. I distinctly remember her acting surprised when Carole told her that she liked him and she tried to downplay the relationship to 'banging buddies' and talking about the age difference. She was throwing subtle jabs to detract Carole from pursuing things further. By the time the season ended, Luann went balls to the wall throwing out any and every example of Carole's inappropriateness in the situation to explain why she was uncomfortable with it but also, she became more desperate to detract the relationship the more she realized that it was seemingly getting serious. I don't think Luann was ever angry per se, but that Carole's actions clearly breached her expectations of what their friendship was. I do think Luann was genuine about her concern for her niece, but I also think Luann felt slighted as well for being involuntarily involved in the conception of their relationship...so I think there's an element of pride there as well.

Luann is not a confrontational person. Asking why she didn't broach the subject on a number of occasions isn't in line with her personality. Luann can throw shade and act blase well, but she can't hold down a verbal back and forth. She's far too flustered for those kind of scenarios. The most damning comments by Luann were made after the season ended as pointed out, but is it all possible that Luann's niece may have had her own opinions about the relationship that fueled Luann's anger?

I know Luann's niece hasn't addressed the matter, but has Adam addressed the timeline of his dating history with Nicole? I can only recall Carole insisting that they were broken up for a year but it would seem like such an easy thing for Adam to at least corroborate Carole's story given that he also makes appearances on the show but I can't recall him doing that which I find strange.

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I, too, have nostalgia for the first season, and I agree with many of the negative comments (for instance, I do think it's problematic that Beth obviously has so much clout on the show and the other cast members for the most part just blow smoke up her ass instead of honestly engaging with her.)  BUT I still think this is the best RHO franchise by far.  To me, it helps that these women seem to have friendships (or at least entanglements) that transcend the boundaries of the show. 

For instance, I loved this episode.  I thought it was a Bethenny-buggin', Countess-offendin', dog-poopin', apology-textin', Sonja-excludin' rollicking good time! 

YMMV.

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47 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I don't think Lu was ever mad at Carole for dating Adam because of her niece. I don't even think she was ever mad at Carole for dating him at all. If she had been mad, why didn't she show it at the time? Why did she say things like "we'll work it out", or "it's fine" if she was mad at her? Why did they travel together, laugh with other? Why did Lu still invite Carole to her Hamptons Pad for weekends after she found out about Adam if she was mad at her? Why didn't we ever see her mad at Carole on the show? Because she wasn't mad at her. Was it perhaps a bit uncomfortable? I think that it might have been, but we don't know for sure. She certainly wasn't mad. She wasn't mad at her until the season ended. She wasn't mad until she needed a reason to be mad at Carole because she was afraid she was going to end the season looking bad. I will always believe that if Kristen hadn't uttered the words "Lu's guy was married" that things would have been different. That is when it all changed. Lu didn't seem to mind the girls coming into her room, didn't seem mad at anyone, and seemed to be enjoying the attention of looking completely awesome strutting around in her Yummie Tummie's on camera first thing in the morning. She was having a great time, until Kristen said those words. Suddenly the party was over and she realized that the old Lu - the one who was in a committed relationship with someone - but still fucked a Pirate on vacation and lied about it, even though cameras are all around - is in danger of being outed again. She acted casual about the notion that he was married, but I always thought she looked spooked that this was said on camera. Who wouldn't believe that a gal who cheated on someone she apparently loved greatly would have any big qualms about playing around with someone in a committed relationship? Exactly nobody. I think that is when she decided she needed a reason to be really pissed about things that she wasn't really pissed about, and she was going to need to take some people out. And she did. She couldn't even keep the reason she was mad about Adam straight. Was it about her niece, or was it because he was the "help" (which was what she started saying during the last half of the season in interviews)? Was it because of his age? She said that she had no problem with Carole fucking him, but didn't understand her wanting to be in a relationship with him. She couldn't keep her faux anger straight. 

I don't think Lu was furious over it and wanted to move passed it and of course they are filming a show together so she's going to suggest making the best of the situation. Also her and Carole had gotten closer so I would expect that Lu had the intention of rolling with it as best as she could. It really does seem to play out during the season where Lu was "getting along" with Carole but I definitely could see that there was a bit of an uneasy undertone to their interactions. Lu's never had to manufacture drama after being "caught" before. Maybe I'm wrong but did she go on a warpath with anyone after getting caught with the pirate? Hell there was more at stake regarding that one cause she was still seeing Jacques when that happened.

And am I wrong but didn't things really start heating up between Carole and Lu once the season started airing? Makes perfect sense to me that after spending the time filming with Carole and dealing with some of the rather sensitive issues surrounding the hook up during filming (some of those moments were rocky) and then seeing all the extra shit Carole included in her TH and with the cast later on she would start reacting more strongly since I doubt the feeling surrounding the issue were ever really resolved. It looked to me that the way they were trying to deal with the uneasiness of it was to sorta like shrug and give off that "whatdayagonnado" vibe until enough time passes and it blows over on its own. I sort think Lu was interested in that approach too cause that's how she usually likes to deal with conflicts but her feelings on the issue were a little more complicated and I'm sure once she started seeing all the bullshit nonchalance and doses of shade that Carole was throwing out over it Lu found it harder to just let it go by. She might have been close to making peace with her feelings over it closer to the end of filming, that is until she started seeing the episodes air. I expect seeing some of that undid whatever progress she was making towards moving passed it. Seems about right to me.

I'm  so confused about why the timeline doesn't seem to jive with some cause it seems so very straight forward to me. I mean, so what she wasn't hopping mad towards Carole all season long. The tension was there and to me it seems like it was festering over time and seeing the footage of Caroles comments was the straw to break the camels back that set off Lu and then the insults started flying on twitter. I mean again I'm not a hundred percent sure on timing but using the fact that Lu and Carol made it to the end of filming without obviously hating each other as a guide doesn't make sense to me cause at the time the twitter wars began the season was airing and I would expect the new information the show was providing absolutely coincides with when Lu became way more aggressive. I find it completely understandable that they finished the season not so bad but entered the reunion not so great cause of all the new footage they were now privy to.  Maybe it's just me. I dunno.

Edited by Yours Truly
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4 hours ago, Ellee said:

 

I personally find it hard to believe that Sonja 'dated' any man for 10 years without getting a ring out of it especially if the man was wealthy.  We all know what Sonja would do for a black card. 

Well, It starts off with a yellow card, then a red card and you are taken out of that match and the match that follows?

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(edited)
40 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

I don't think Luann was faux angry, I think she was uncomfortable and disapproving namely because she did make shady comments during the filming. I distinctly remember her acting surprised when Carole told her that she liked him and she tried to downplay the relationship to 'banging buddies' and talking about the age difference. She was throwing subtle jabs to detract Carole from pursuing things further. By the time the season ended, Luann went balls to the wall throwing out any and every example of Carole's inappropriateness in the situation to explain why she was uncomfortable with it but also, she became more desperate to detract the relationship the more she realized that it was seemingly getting serious. I don't think Luann was ever angry per se, but that Carole's actions clearly breached her expectations of what their friendship was. I do think Luann was genuine about her concern for her niece, but I also think Luann felt slighted as well for being involuntarily involved in the conception of their relationship...so I think there's an element of pride there as well.

Luann is not a confrontational person. Asking why she didn't broach the subject on a number of occasions isn't in line with her personality. Luann can throw shade and act blase well, but she can't hold down a verbal back and forth. She's far too flustered for those kind of scenarios. The most damning comments by Luann were made after the season ended as pointed out, but is it all possible that Luann's niece may have had her own opinions about the relationship that fueled Luann's anger?

I know Luann's niece hasn't addressed the matter, but has Adam addressed the timeline of his dating history with Nicole? I can only recall Carole insisting that they were broken up for a year but it would seem like such an easy thing for Adam to at least corroborate Carole's story given that he also makes appearances on the show but I can't recall him doing that which I find strange.

LOVE THIS! Someone else see's the timeline as me. And see's Lu's behavior throughout the season as uncomfortable as well as getting more and agitated as the season progressed. Her discomfort is plain to see so all this Lu wasn't mad stuff confuses me. Sure she wasn't mad but she was far from happy over the situation. I don't think she planned to get into an out and out battle with Carole but I think Carole's very obvious disregard over it truly hindered Lu's ability to take it in stride. I think Lu was willing to, probably begrudgingly, but at the end of the day willing however I think Carole's insensitive approach and callousness made it so that it was pretty impossible for her to concede without comment. I'd be hard pressed too. After seeing how reckless Carole was in the way she treated the situation and practically labelled it all a joke. It just wasn't very nice and I know this viewer was absolutely disgusted with the way Carole treated the situation as whole.

And as for Adam claiming that they were broken up for a year, I hate that this is even taken as fact especially since it's actually heresay coming from Carole. Side note her absolute stance on it really bugged me cause she was just the epitomy of dumb new chick taking everything her new boo says as gospel. Hate it when chicks take this shortcut to "know it all" new girlfriend.  But still, we all know 1)Dude's will run with half truths if they think that's what the current conquest needs to hear. 2) People can "officially" break up and stay friends with benefits and well, that also comes with messiness whether it technically should or shouldn't is besides the point.  I thought that detail was one of the lamest uses of the technicality excuse ever. Just sayin'

Edited by Yours Truly
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15 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I don't think Luann is screwing only "men of means" I mean come on now, that pirate with a hotel show gig?  I think she wants to marry a man of a certain amount of means though, since she's not really bringing in income of her own, aside from her pay to play real housewife gig.  I think she has sex for fun, and more power to that!  I think she always has, and that's why the original cast had issues with her white glove, pinky finger raised, look down her nose, "Oh Darrrrrlings, that's just not done!" pretensions.   I love a woman with a healthy sexual appetite, and see nothing at all wrong with that, and while there is no need to share details, at least drop the ladylike dating rules crap.

She's been a piece of work for a long time, but I did really like her last year.  I hope we continue to get the fun Luann, but she has such an air of desperation about her this year.  Maybe now that she's engaged she'll relax and calm down some.

There is a difference between 'screwing' and 'fucking' - The pirate got fucked. If the Countess had sex for work, then Methenny's accusation of her being a whore would have been right on? I have no problem with a woman who has a healthy sexual appetite, they tend to finish everything on their plate.

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A couple of folks have brought up that LuAnn is a hypocrite -- especially when they compare the Early LuAnn (from Seasons 1-3 -- the Snobby Countess) and the Current LuAnn (from Seasons 4 to Now -- the Sexual Buccaneer).  I feel the need to defend her for the following reasons:

*The Count left her for a much younger woman with a real title -- an Ethiopian Princess -- and that probably knocked her through a loop.  I bet she did NOT want to end her marriage to the Count and feel humiliated, lose status, etc.

*Instead of crying, pouting and carrying on, Lu reinvented herself and her life.  She took her key assets -- beauty, charm and a sense of joie de vivre - and evolved to a sexually liberated,middle-aged woman enjoying life. She dropped the Countess Schtick because she knew she had to. The Count was long gone with his new paramour and LuAnn and to figure out  life on her own. And doing so, even with a generous financial settlement, ain't easy.

Look I agree -- LuAnn was sometimes a huge snob back in the day but that was part of her early Housewife Persona and a key reason why she got the Housewife gig back in 2007/2008. She was just working with what she had and it worked for a while -- until the Count jumped ship.  I still give her huge props for moving on and carrying on despite a huge setback and reinventing herself.  

No I am not LuAnn's publicist but I do feel that she has done some smart things with her life and played the reality TV game pretty well.  

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(edited)
2 hours ago, Ellee said:

Something I've been meaning to bring up in the Carole-Adam-Lu discussion is that somewhere within that hour and the screaming match it was said that LuLu screwed Adam before he started dating Carole.  I've been meaning to rewatch it but haven't.  This to me makes a lot more sense to the Carole-Lu fight than the Adam dated my niece fight. 

Did I really hear this?

LOL, still wish I was part of the storyline meetings.  It's evident that this is the year of the LuLu. She must have drawn the short straw.

ETA:  Will pass on the pedophile comment.  I'd hurt somebody if they said that about me.  I would.  I'd have to. 

Bethenny did say something along those lines, that Luann slept with Adam first. I would not be surprised if she did.

43 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I don't think Lu was furious over it and wanted to move passed it and of course they are filming a show together so she's going to suggest making the best of the situation. Also her and Carole had gotten closer so I would expect that Lu had the intention of rolling with it as best as she could. It really does seem to play out during the season where Lu was "getting along" with Carole but I definitely could see that there was a bit of an uneasy undertone to their interactions. Lu's never had to manufacture drama after being "caught" before. Maybe I'm wrong but did she go on a warpath with anyone after getting caught with the pirate? Hell there was more at stake regarding that one cause she was still seeing Jacques when that happened.

And am I wrong but didn't things really start heating up between Carole and Lu once the season started airing? Makes perfect sense to me that after spending the time filming with Carole and dealing with some of the rather sensitive issues surrounding the hook up during filming (some of those moments were rocky) and then seeing all the extra shit Carole included in her TH and with the cast later on she would start reacting more strongly since I doubt the feeling surrounding the issue were ever really resolved. It looked to me that the way they were trying to deal with the uneasiness of it was to sorta like shrug and give off that "whatdayagonnado" vibe until enough time passes and it blows over on its own. I sort think Lu was interested in that approach too cause that's how she usually likes to deal with conflicts but her feelings on the issue were a little more complicated and I'm sure once she started seeing all the bullshit nonchalance and doses of shade that Carole was throwing out over it Lu found it harder to just let it go by. She might have been close to making peace with her feelings over it closer to the end of filming, that is until she started seeing the episodes air. I expect seeing some of that undid whatever progress she was making towards moving passed it. Seems about right to me.

I'm  so confused about why the timeline doesn't seem to jive with some cause it seems so very straight forward to me. I mean, so what she wasn't hopping mad towards Carole all season long. The tension was there and to me it seems like it was festering over time and seeing the footage of Caroles comments was the straw to break the camels back that set off Lu and then the insults started flying on twitter. I mean again I'm not a hundred percent sure on timing but using the fact that Lu and Carol made it to the end of filming without obviously hating each other as a guide doesn't make sense to me cause at the time the twitter wars began the season was airing and I would expect the new information the show was providing absolutely coincides with when Lu became way more aggressive. I find it completely understandable that they finished the season not so bad but entered the reunion not so great cause of all the new footage they were now privy to.  Maybe it's just me. I dunno.

Although the THs are filmed as the filming progresses, none of the HWs know what the others are saying in them until they get the final edited episode a week before that episode airs and they were filming TH segments (according to Dorinda) for the final few episodes up until the day before they filmed the reunion. So, anything either Carole or Luann said in them would not have been known by the other until the regular season was already done being filmed. Also, the HWs are answering questions asked by a producer that we don't see/hear, then edited, placed where production wants them and they are designed to increase the drama on the episode. Anything said in a TH is suspect because the producers carry tales between the HWs to amp up their responses.

Edited by WireWrap
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2 hours ago, Ellee said:

Something I've been meaning to bring up in the Carole-Adam-Lu discussion is that somewhere within that hour and the screaming match it was said that LuLu screwed Adam before he started dating Carole.  I've been meaning to rewatch it but haven't.  This to me makes a lot more sense to the Carole-Lu fight than the Adam dated my niece fight. 

Did I really hear this?

LOL, still wish I was part of the storyline meetings.  It's evident that this is the year of the LuLu. She must have drawn the short straw.

ETA:  Will pass on the pedophile comment.  I'd hurt somebody if they said that about me.  I would.  I'd have to. 

NO!!  Don't make things worse. Bethenny said a lot of things but she never said  Luann screwed Adam.. She said Luann had screwed a 25 year old guy and given her friend shit about (Adam).  Adam is now 30 on the show. :-)  Adam ages two years annually.

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Just now, zoeysmom said:

NO!!  Don't make things worse. Bethenny said a lot of things but she never said  Luann screwed Adam.. She said Luann had screwed a 25 year old guy and given her friend shit about (Adam).  Adam is now 30 on the show. :-)  Adam ages two years annually.

Ok, but the way she said it, she ran it together IMO, made it sound like she was accusing Luann of sleeping with Adam first. LOL

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1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

Bethenny did say something along those lines, that Luann slept with Adam first. I would not be surprised if she did.

Although the THs are filmed as the filming progresses, none of the HWs know what the others are saying in them until they get the final edited episode a week before that episode airs and they were filming TH segments (according to Dorinda) for the final few episodes up until the day before they filmed the reunion. So, anything either Carole or Luann said in them would not have been known by the other until the regular season was already done being filmed. Also, the HWs are answering questions asked by a producer that we don't see/hear, then edited, placed where production wants them and they are designed to increase the drama on the episode. Anything said in a TH is suspect because the producers carry tales between the HWs to amp up their responses.

Okay and this is where it always gets muddy for me on the forum. Am I not making my point correctly or am I missing or messing up a part of the equation?  Honest question.

This is what I'm saying:

-Season is being filmed, they are dealing with issues in real time and without all the other information we see with regards to all the cast interactions as opposed to what each HW is privy to.

-Issues arise, pieces of information are revealed at different times, places, audiences among the cast and drama arises, is discussed, feelings vary etc. etc.

-Season starts airing before the reunion is filmed.

-Carol and Lu aren't exactly at each others throats at the end of the season however they are far from kumbayaing. I think it can be agreed that they fell somewhere in the middle when the season wrapped.

Now this is where I can be wrong because I don't follow twitter like that:

-The season starts to air and now we've got more information spilling out, including opinions from the other cast members, reactions from Carole on the matter, how she presented it to the others and her demeanor in her TH, Lu's TH's etc. etc.

Doesn't this start marking the point of the twitter war starting between Lu and Carole? Wouldn't it make sense that after seeing the new information play out, feelings over the matter escalated on both sides and what was an amicable working relationship/salvagable friendship at the end of the season and during promos leading up to the season it turned into the all out feud we saw take place after the first few episodes starting airing? I mean am I getting something wrong with the timing?

-Then of course by the reunion the battle lines are seriously different than when they wrapped the season. No?

Edited by Yours Truly
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36 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Okay and this is where it always gets muddy for me on the forum. Am I not making my point correctly or am I missing or messing up a part of the equation?  Honest question.

This is what I'm saying:

-Season is being filmed, they are dealing with issues in real time and without all the other information we see with regards to all the cast interactions as opposed to what each HW is privy to.

-Issues arise, pieces of information are revealed at different times, places, audiences among the cast and drama arises, is discussed, feelings vary etc. etc.

-Season starts airing before the reunion is filmed.

-Carol and Lu aren't exactly at each others throats at the end of the season however they are far from kumbayaing. I think it can be agreed that they fell somewhere in the middle when the season wrapped.

Now this is where I can be wrong because I don't follow twitter like that:

-The season starts to air and now we've got more information spilling out, including opinions from the other cast members, reactions from Carole on the matter, how she presented it to the others and her demeanor in her TH, Lu's TH's etc. etc.

Doesn't this start marking the point of the twitter war starting between Lu and Carole? Wouldn't it make sense that after seeing the new information play out, feelings over the matter escalated on both sides and what was an amicable working relationship/salvagable friendship at the end of the season and during promos for season it turned into the all out feud we saw take place after the first few episodes starting airing? I mean am I getting something wrong with the timing?

-Then of course by the reunion the battle lines are seriously different than when they wrapped the season. No?

I get what you are saying, that Luann went off the rails because of what she saw Carole say in her THs once the season started to air but all of the women know how the THs work, all of them. They all know that production plays runtelldat with all of them, Luann more so than say Carole and Carole/Luann more so than Dorinda. If you go back and re-watch some of the nastier THs made by both Luann and Carole, they look like they were filmed at a much later date than the more gentle/understanding THs earlier in the season. IMO, production redid a lot of Luann's/Carole's THs about Adamgate and edited them in on the earlier episodes. Both women seemed to be played by production in that storyline and both of them, more so Luann, should have been wiser to that fact.

As for why Luann went off the rails, just a guess but I suspect that she knew she needed to bring something more to the show than what she did (fear of being demoted again, especially with as many full time HWs as they had last season) and she wanted to be on Bethenny's good side this season, hence her going after Heather and Carole via twitter. Little did she know that Heather would quit on her own and that Bethenny/Carole would become frick and frack this season. I suspect that Luann counted on being on Bethenny's team going up against Heather/Carole's team this season and she got a big, BIG, surprise instead.

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1 hour ago, Gaily said:

Look I agree -- LuAnn was sometimes a huge snob back in the day but that was part of her early Housewife Persona and a key reason why she got the Housewife gig back in 2007/2008. She was just working with what she had and it worked for a while -- until the Count jumped ship.  I still give her huge props for moving on and carrying on despite a huge setback and reinventing herself.  

She's gotten easier to be around since 2007 while Bethy, Ramona and others have only gotten much, much worse. Lu is happier than they are, too.  I'd much rather have the Luann of today on this show than the Bethy of today, that's for sure.

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(edited)
43 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I get what you are saying, that Luann went off the rails because of what she saw Carole say in her THs once the season started to air but all of the women know how the THs work, all of them. They all know that production plays runtelldat with all of them, Luann more so than say Carole and Carole/Luann more so than Dorinda. If you go back and re-watch some of the nastier THs made by both Luann and Carole, they look like they were filmed at a much later date than the more gentle/understanding THs earlier in the season. IMO, production redid a lot of Luann's/Carole's THs about Adamgate and edited them in on the earlier episodes. Both women seemed to be played by production in that storyline and both of them, more so Luann, should have been wiser to that fact.

As for why Luann went off the rails, just a guess but I suspect that she knew she needed to bring something more to the show than what she did (fear of being demoted again, especially with as many full time HWs as they had last season) and she wanted to be on Bethenny's good side this season, hence her going after Heather and Carole via twitter. Little did she know that Heather would quit on her own and that Bethenny/Carole would become frick and frack this season. I suspect that Luann counted on being on Bethenny's team going up against Heather/Carole's team this season and she got a big, BIG, surprise instead.

No I'm not saying just the TH's... There was a good amount of footage that was pissing me off not just the talking heads. Also, as much as those TH's are a trap they also DON'T feed you a response. Look, I'm not asking about the opinions of how this or that should have been taken. All I'm clarifying is the timing.

So it's correct to conclude that the twitter war was kicking off more aggressively after the season starting airing episodes. We can't deny that the footage didn't or should I say couldn't have contributed to escalating feelings just by assigning producer shenanigans with the interview questions in the TH....  How much of an impact we chose to believe watching the episodes has on cast emotions, well that's where individual perceptions come in. But the logic is solid.

I believe there's also the deep sense of annoyance to know that in real time you were trying to work with the situation all the while the other party was not being as sensitive about it during interactions with the other cast mates as she was in your presence. Seeing how one was talking to another vs. how they presented themselves to you and the complete level difference of respect from one exchange to another can be a hard pill to swallow. It's not all about the TH's for me. It's about seeing all the different attitudes and feeling like it contradicts the interaction initially had between the two parties during filming. I mean all that is super relevant. I don't see how it can't be. And this observation can be applied to Lu as well as Carole.

Ok so I've established that ending the season one way vs. being at odds with each other when the season starts airing is in line with the fact that watching the episodes unfold can absolutely contribute to the live tweeting debacles were are now subjected to and also affect how hot or cold emotions are running during the reunion. I'm always wondering why this detail is ignored when trying to determine the authenticity of a HW's bad vibes with one another while filming the reunion. I mean it would seem obvious that watching more shit unfold ON TOP of the drama you've experience first hand during filming would affect their emotions between the season finale and the reunion. And even affect truces that were made towards the end of the season. Seems like a no brainer to me and yet across the franchises these foggy timeline theories are so far fetched while painting the logic surrounding the actual time line of events as the most suspect of them all. That's why I was genuinely confused about whether my take was off somewhere.

Edited by Yours Truly
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11 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

No I'm not saying just the TH's... There was a good amount of footage that was pissing me off not just the talking heads. Also, as much as those TH's are a trap they also DON'T feed you a response. Look, I'm not asking about the opinions of how this or that should have been taken. All I'm clarifying is the timing.

So it's correct to conclude that the twitter war was kicking off more aggressively after the season starting airing episodes. We can't deny that the footage didn't contribute to escalated feelings just by assigning producer shenanigans to the TH.... At the very least it can't be deny that the possibility is there. How much of an impact we chose to see it as having on the cast, well that's where individual perceptions come in.

I believe there's also the deep sense of annoyance to know that in real time you were trying to work with the situation all the while the other party was not being as sensitive about it during interactions with the other cast mates as she was in your presence. Seeing how one was talking to another vs. how they presented themselves to you and the complete level difference of respect from one exchange to another can be a hard pill to swallow. It's not all about the TH's for me. It's about seeing all the different attitudes and feeling like it contradicts the interaction initial had between the two parties during filming. I mean all that is super relevant. I don't see how it can't be. And this observation can apply to Lu as well as Carole.

Ok so I've established that ending the season one way vs. being at odds with each other when the season starts airing is in line with the fact that watching the episodes unfold can absolutely contribute to the live tweeting debacles were are now subjected to and also affect how hot or cold emotions are running during the reunion. I'm always wondering why this detail is ignored when trying to determine the authenticity of a HW's bad vibes with one another while filming the reunion. I mean it would seem obvious that watching more shit unfold ON TOP of the drama you've experience first hand during filming would affect their emotions between the season finale and the reunion. And even affect truces that were made towards the end of the season. Seems like a no brainer to me and yet across the franchises these foggy timeline theories are so far fetched while painting the logic surrounding the actual time line of events as the most suspect of them all. That's why I was genuinely confused about whether my take was off somewhere.

Yes, the twitter war happened after the season started to air, not during filming but after. I still go back to production editing footage to tell the story they want to tell, not necessarily what the HWs want to tell and not just the TH segments, which is something they all know about. The question is, why did Luann, who was fine with Carole all season, suddenly go nuts on twitter? If she was that taken aback by something Carole said in a TH or to another HW on film, wouldn't it make sense to call her up and ask her about it (something she didn't do), why just go nuts on twitter? I go back to the fact that Luann was worried about being demoted again and this was a way to bring herself to the forefront of the show even after filming was done, it helped her secure her contract for this season. And.....Yes, I do think Luann puts being on the show ahead of any "friendship/relationship" with any of the other HWs, most of them do. The only one that I think put her relationships/friendships first, before her contract, was Heather and that was why she quit the show directly after the reunion last year.

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3 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Yes, the twitter war happened after the season started to air, not during filming but after. I still go back to production editing footage to tell the story they want to tell, not necessarily what the HWs want to tell and not just the TH segments, which is something they all know about. The question is, why did Luann, who was fine with Carole all season, suddenly go nuts on twitter? If she was that taken aback by something Carole said in a TH or to another HW on film, wouldn't it make sense to call her up and ask her about it (something she didn't do), why just go nuts on twitter? I go back to the fact that Luann was worried about being demoted again and this was a way to bring herself to the forefront of the show even after filming was done, it helped her secure her contract for this season. And.....Yes, I do think Luann puts being on the show ahead of any "friendship/relationship" with any of the other HWs, most of them do. The only one that I think put her relationships/friendships first, before her contract, was Heather and that was why she quit the show directly after the reunion last year.

Because Lu already lived through the complete season of filming. Her emotions aren't the same while watching than they were when the episode was being filmed. You have Lu with a seasons worth of drama and kerfluffles and trying to make nice, not trying to make nice, this confrontation, that sit down all these things transpiring throughout the season they recently wrapped trying to keep certain emotions in check while the cameras are rolling and then start seeing such an ugly prelude to what she thought was a somewhat humble first interaction about Adam. I mean that was awkward and tense to begin with. I would guess that as rocky as that first interaction was Lu was still trying to make the best of it for a variety of reasons one of which is that Caroles her friend. She wasn't flawless in how she received it but I do believe she genuinely wanted to get through it and took Caroles revelation in stride believing she too wanted to avoid any disruption to their relationship and therefore I truly believe Lu was making a conscious effort for everything it be okay in that moment. Then to see how Carole was referring to the whole ordeal in such a practically mocking manner while she's seeing herself struggling a bit with the news.... I mean I get it... It makes absolute sense to me especially since I do believe there was a lot of emotions running through Lu based on the connections involved. That's not really small potatoes or an easy situation to have to manuever through. One side being her friend then also being work then it also being something that's very real to someone in her family and not just about the show... I can totally see how Lu could've lost it by then cause she's also sitting on emotions about stuff that had transpired during the season as a whole. Totally makes sense to me. Glaringly obvious.

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On 6/5/2016 at 9:37 AM, escape said:

BRAVO ran a marathon of Season 1.  And lo and behold, there's Tom - Luann's finance - at a bar, hitting on Ramona on a girls night out.  Fast forward 8 yrs later and Luann is engaged to this guy.  I can see this being so juicy at the Reunion.

ETA:  The big difference between the show Then and Now.  Then it was really more about the women's everyday lives with their families, work, NY society.  It help that they had known each other prior to the show.  Now it has basically turned into a cage match of who can create the most drama, catfights, friction.

I thought that was him!  Thank you!

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2 hours ago, Gaily said:

 

 

2 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

I thought that was him!  Thank you!

So far there is no confirmation but my guess is the gossip tabs will pick it up and run with it.   If true an interesting side note. 

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22 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

You know, I was actually kinda eager to see Bethenny get on Lu's case for her endless phoniness & hypocrisy.  But I didn't care for her slut-shaming Lu.  And despite Bethenny's direct denial of it in her TH, that is EXACTLY what she was doing.  It was vicious & ugly & nasty & exceptionally cruel.

Ah, but that is who Bethenny is now.  Hey, maybe some like Bethenny because of her now horrible nature.  Not me.  I can't stand it.  She's just so freakin' relentlessly cruel now.  I mean, why is she being so unnecessarily horrible & cruel?  For our entertainment?  Is this what Satan Andy thinks is entertaining?  Ugh.

Does Lu deserve to be outed for her indiscreet behavior?  Why is Bethenny doing this so gleefully?  She kinda admitted in her TH, this was revenge & that when people in the past have gone against her, it hasn't gone well for them -- or something like that.  

OK, so does this mean we should think she's awesome & wonderful for being tough & standing up for herself?  I'm not seeing her that way.  She just seems cold, heartless, vicious & cruel.  Worlds away from how she was in season 1, eh?

Hey, Idk if I'm the only one, but I'm endlessly fascinated by Dorinda's house.  Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely no use for her, but that joint reminds me of one those crazy places Steed & Mrs. Peel would always end up in, in The Avengers.

Calling someone a slut is "vicious & ugly & nasty & exceptionally cruel" - yet .......

22 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Carole got exactly zero sympathy from me with her whining about Lu calling her a pedophile.  First off, stop fucking whining about harmless teasing, Carole.  You may think your shit doesn't stink & you're above everyone & that your being up Bethenny's asshole protects you from anyone saying anything about you, but guess what, hun?  It doesn't.  

Get.  The.  Fuck.  Over.  Yourself.  Carole.  Nobody thinks you're a pedophile for dating a 29 year old man.  Hun, STFU & stop whining about Lu teasing you.  God, I do hope her palsy walsy Satan Andy picks back up on the ghostwriter shit again.  

I'd so like to see Carole in the hot seat again.  C'mon Satan Andy, get your scriptwriters to sic Bethenny on Carole.  Now that I can get into -- watching Bethenny rip Carole to shreds.  But nah, all we got comin' is a probably blown ouuta proportion health scare -- for Bethenny only?  Well, of course.  Who else would it be?  Snore.

Calling someone a pedophile is "harmless teasing". 

Okay.

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Does anyone know if Luann said pedophile to Carole's face or if someone is repeating a conversation they had with Luann?  I guess I am wondering what kid party were they at and when it happened in relation to last year's show.

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3 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Bethenny did say something along those lines, that Luann slept with Adam first. I would not be surprised if she did.

IF this is true - and none of us knows - then it's absolutely disgusting the way Luann went on about her niece, whom she loves like a daughter, being heartbroken that a casual acquaintance was seeing her ex.  How would that even compare to mother figure Aunt Lu fucking your ex?  Hm.  It would also put Carole in a difficult position.  If Adam doesn't want that out there, Carole can't bring it up.  Which would make her own counter attacks on Luann less than effective.  And would surely add to Carole's anger.

On second thought, that would mean Lu is fucking her help, which is surely more horrific than fucking your friend's help. 

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41 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Because Lu already lived through the complete season of filming. Her emotions aren't the same while watching than they were when the episode was being filmed. You have Lu with a seasons worth of drama and kerfluffles and trying to make nice, not trying to make nice, this confrontation, that sit down all these things transpiring throughout the season they recently wrapped trying to keep certain emotions in check while the cameras are rolling and then start seeing such an ugly prelude to what she thought was a somewhat humble first interaction about Adam. I mean that was awkward and tense to begin with. I would guess that as rocky as that first interaction was Lu was still trying to make the best of it for a variety of reasons one of which is that Caroles her friend. She wasn't flawless in how she received it but I do believe she genuinely wanted to get through it and took Caroles revelation in stride believing she too wanted to avoid any disruption to their relationship and therefore I truly believe Lu was making a conscious effort for everything it be okay in that moment. Then to see how Carole was referring to the whole ordeal in such a practically mocking manner while she's seeing herself struggling a bit with the news.... I mean I get it... It makes absolute sense to me especially since I do believe there was a lot of emotions running through Lu based on the connections involved. That's not really small potatoes or an easy situation to have to manuever through. One side being her friend then also being work then it also being something that's very real to someone in her family and not just about the show... I can totally see how Lu could've lost it by then cause she's also sitting on emotions about stuff that had transpired during the season as a whole. Totally makes sense to me. Glaringly obvious.

It goes both ways though. Luann made nasty/snarky comments about Carole as well but Carole didn't go off on Luann on twitter at first. She kept asking Luann what had changed and Luann refused to answer her. As I said, production edits conversations to fit the storyline they determine, not what the HWs determine and both Luann and Carole are well aware of that fact so there is no reason for Luann to not pick up her phone and call Carole to ask what she said/meant or to see if something was edited or out of context. The simple fact is that Luann went to war on twitter without giving Carole a chance to explain anything, Luann started the war big time, then they both kept it going.

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6 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

IF this is true - and none of us knows - then it's absolutely disgusting the way Luann went on about her niece, whom she loves like a daughter, being heartbroken that a casual acquaintance was seeing her ex.  How would that even compare to mother figure Aunt Lu fucking your ex?  Hm.  It would also put Carole in a difficult position.  If Adam doesn't want that out there, Carole can't bring it up.  Which would make her own counter attacks on Luann less than effective.  And would surely add to Carole's anger.

On second thought, that would mean Lu is fucking her help, which is surely more horrific than fucking your friend's help. 

I think ZM said that it was a different young guy that Luann slept with, not Adam but it was worded to make it sound like it was Adam IMO. I still don't believe/buy into the idea that Luann was upset because of her niece/Adam, my gut says it was all an act to keep her full time HW contract this season.

15 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Does anyone know if Luann said pedophile to Carole's face or if someone is repeating a conversation they had with Luann?  I guess I am wondering what kid party were they at and when it happened in relation to last year's show.

I wonder the same thing because no one has given any details about it. Maybe we will get the facts later on this season.

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And I continue to be astonished by how many feel the need to share every burpfartcough in 140 characters or less. 

Not to mention IG and FB ad nauseum.

I hope alcohol is involved.

LuLu can be a real lulu. Partly why I like her. Warts and all.

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You really think Carole would hold back on the information that Adam banged Luann? She would be waving that around like Brandy Glanvilles bloody tampon. 

I think this is the least interesting part of the whole episode is the pile on Luann. The thing that was most interesting to me was the fact that Bethenny is unhinged and everyone just enables her. From Dorinda to Ramona to the production staff they just let her run wild. So far this season she has viciously attacked John, Sonja and Luann. She has just been casually snotty to Jules and Ramona and Carole are her flying monkeys. Enough already! I hope someone throw a bucket of water on her soon so my ears can get some relief!

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8 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

Ramona did look really great didn't she? Even better when you consider she was still over 50 in that first season! Hair was natural, and her figure was on point.  However, I always felt like there was something "off" with the color of her face? It looked very .... ruddy or something?  I always wondered if that was from getting certain facial treatments like dermabrasion ... or just the wrong color of foundation? 

I always thought she had that burned off by laser look that Rene Zellweger and Nicole Kidman had years ago. The mouth sort of blends into the face because the skin tone is redder, I think.  Anyway, I'm glad that practice has become outdated because it ruined several lovely faces for a few years and seemed like it took years for them to heal and look right again.

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Quote

You really think Carole would hold back on the information that Adam banged Luann?

Absolutely, because I think the last thing Carole would want to admit is that Adam is one of Luann's "leftovers", so to speak.

If Adam and Luann did get it on, I can see both of them wanting to keep it on the down low.

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32 minutes ago, Trooper York said:

You really think Carole would hold back on the information that Adam banged Luann? She would be waving that around like Brandy Glanvilles bloody tampon. 

I think this is the least interesting part of the whole episode is the pile on Luann. The thing that was most interesting to me was the fact that Bethenny is unhinged and everyone just enables her. From Dorinda to Ramona to the production staff they just let her run wild. So far this season she has viciously attacked John, Sonja and Luann. She has just been casually snotty to Jules and Ramona and Carole are her flying monkeys. Enough already! I hope someone throw a bucket of water on her soon so my ears can get some relief!

I don't Carole would say anything herself IF Luann did sleep with Adam but I wouldn't put it past her to tell Bethenny this info. IF it happened that is.

I am not a fan of Luann's, well I really don't like anyone this season, and even I think Bethenny was OTT nutso when she went off on her. No one, and I do mean no one, deserves that kind of treatment...........although at this point I would love for Bethenny to get a real taste of her own medicine!

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13 minutes ago, Almost 3000 said:

I always thought she had that burned off by laser look that Rene Zellweger and Nicole Kidman had years ago. The mouth sort of blends into the face because the skin tone is redder, I think.  Anyway, I'm glad that practice has become outdated because it ruined several lovely faces for a few years and seemed like it took years for them to heal and look right again.

Oh yea I do remember Rene Z having that same look!  Yes - there was certainly a marked difference between Ramona's complexion in season 1 and season 2 - season 2 she looked awesome.

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1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

Calling someone a slut is "vicious & ugly & nasty & exceptionally cruel" - yet .......

Calling someone a pedophile is "harmless teasing". 

Okay.

Um, no  I said it was a lowball thing to say, but you chose not to quote that. While I would never say that & I do think it was extremely nasty of Lu to say in the first place, as I said before, it's a completely baseless accusation.  It's simply untrue & based on nothing.  To me, it's a juvenile, thoughtless & ridiculous put-down and not anymore than that.

Now, the slut-shaming OTOH is based on actual behavior of Lu's.  Is it any more or less nasty than calling Carole a pedophile?  They're both nasty as hell to say.  My point is, Carole's hands are not clean here.  She's trying to act high & mighty and above it all.  She's not.  She got in the mud just like Lu -- by continuing to slut-shame Lu & probably even encouraging Bethenny to do the same.  

I think this endless slut-shaming of Lu is very, very ugly.  To me, Carole is every bit as nasty & lowball as Lu.  And Carole is just as much of a phony & hypocrit as Lu is, despite her insistence that she isn't & her whining about being a victim or target of Lu.  Carole attacks just as much as she has been attacked.  I still have zero sympathy for her whining about Lu attacking her.

That said, Lu does owe Carole a real apology for calling her a pedophile.  Not a Moaner "I'm-sorry-you-were-offended" apology.  But a real apology.  And you know something, Carole?  You ain't above it all, hun.  You need to stop with this freakin' non-stop slut-shaming of Lu, Carole.  And tell your palsy walsy, whose butthole you're living in right now, to cut it the fuck out too.

Sheesh, bring on Bethenny's health scare already.  Maybe that'll give us a break from this non-stop onslaught of nastiness?  Maybe?  Please, Satan Andy, please?

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1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

IF this is true - and none of us knows - then it's absolutely disgusting the way Luann went on about her niece, whom she loves like a daughter, being heartbroken that a casual acquaintance was seeing her ex.  How would that even compare to mother figure Aunt Lu fucking your ex?  Hm.  It would also put Carole in a difficult position.  If Adam doesn't want that out there, Carole can't bring it up.  Which would make her own counter attacks on Luann less than effective.  And would surely add to Carole's anger.

On second thought, that would mean Lu is fucking her help, which is surely more horrific than fucking your friend's help. 

It didn't happen.  Bethenny was talking about Luann being with a 25 year old-not Adam. Adam's name never came up.

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On June 3, 2016 at 4:08 PM, lunastartron said:

August: Osage County. The play by Tracey Letts adapted into the film starring Meryl Streep and Julia Roberts about a family gathering-turned-blowup.

HA here I thought that's how Law & Order eps started out, had no inkling to this thank you !

On June 3, 2016 at 4:41 PM, notnowimbusy said:

If anyone dared mention some rumor they heard about Bethenney's sex life, she would go completely ballistic - screaming at the top of her lungs that her personal life is off-limits because she's in the middle of a custody battle. . . . Unless it's a compliment, same is true for her business.   But, that has never stopped B from commenting on every detail of everyone elses life, loves and homes.  She hold herself above every one of the women.   Remember she can't stand BS - well, unless it's her BS.  

Doesn't have parents....Lost at sea..... Jeep (it's a Ford sweetie)...You sleep with everybody. Bethenny is disgusting and all BS. Countess, get in touch with Alonzo Mosely FBI for a fee I'll coach you on how to slay the BF dragon at Reunion! Imagine if e could coach the HW lol 

It is very Asian of you to bring games. IT IS VERY -ASIAN- OF YOU TO BRING GAMES ? Whatttttt? What a  stinky BO pot head  Pettifile comment. 

I would bet a cool mill that Bethenny and Jason just had a knockdown dragout about Christmas w Bryn or the child swap didn't go well right before Bethenny got to Dorinda's . 

Cue twilight zone music. Bethenny groans at Dorindas hostess gift. Just like Kelly did on Scary Island. Bethenny collapses on the bed in near hysteria. Just like Kelly did on Scary Island. Uncanny ! Go to sleep Bethenny ! 

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