S02.E09: Je Suis Prest

[nodorothyparker]

I liked this one a lot.  Seeing show Jamie fully merge with book Jamie and the leader that he is was fantastic.  In some ways this had a first half of first season feel to it in that while things happen, it wasn't crammed so full that they couldn't slow things down to show you the how and why a lot of the Highland army was what it was.  The training segments were wonderful as was the musical scoring.  Jamie was weirdly hot coming back from the raid.  This is the Outlander I've been missing for awhile.

Continuing with the season 1 throwbacks we get the return of Dougal, Rupert, and Angus.  Rupert and Angus continue their Heckle and Jeckle routine with not much change but the difference with Dougal is the big story.  I'm unsure how I feel about the change of Dougal showing up with just himself and two men and attaching himself to the Fraser outfit instead of leading his own.  It worked terrifically for this particular episode but it also felt a little disappointing not to see the MacKenzies turn out in full force and I wonder about the larger story implications.  I guess we'll be skipping over the fact that the MacKenzies' involvement in the Rising leads to the destruction of Leoch or their later presence in the Americas.  But I'm probably getting ahead of myself there.  Watching Dougal try and try again to do end runs around Jamie I couldn't help but compare to the premier and those first episodes of last season when Jamie clearly didn't feel he had any choice to obey him.  You could feel Dougal's frustration but also the sense that underneath he was begrudgingly proud of Jamie for the man he'd become in his own right.

I'm fine with the changes to the scene introducing John Grey.  I've always thought Jamie kind of came off as an asshole there in the book, which I know was largely for show but I still don't consider it one of his finer moments, so making it another one of those things where he and Claire are clearly in sync with each other to the bemusement of Murtagh and the rest of the men worked fine for me.  I had a moment I thought the actor playing John Grey was the same one as Young Simon too.  He wasn't terrible, but I do very much hope by the time we see the character again they have a much better suited actor for the role.

Claire's PTSD coming into this world almost straight from World War II I'll admit is something I've never really given much thought to.  It mostly worked but I also think it could have worked equally well had they dialed it back by at least a third.

Edited June 5, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[peacefrog]

I'm so late in watching this one but man, this was fantastic. It was a perfect episode of adaptation. The scenery and music just screamed Scotland. I loved expanding on Claire's flashbacks in the books. It really helps show why her character is the way she is. She rushes into help without thinking because of the one time she didn't/couldn't. Jamie has arrived, in tune with his men AND wife. He also has Dougal's number.

So happy with the way the did LJG scene. So much better than the book. They did not take anything away from Jamie by having Claire start the "act". In fact it shows how connected they are. 

Again I'm so happy with this episode, I rank it with my favorite The Wedding! I generally like the show better than the books so far, with few exceptions(the stones) and feel this episode is the epitome of how to make it better.

[LoquaciousAudacity]

I love seeing Jamie and Claire work so in sync with each other. That started the minute they freed that boy with his ear bolted in season 1. They just make such an awesome team, even when I know they're schemes may not turn out. 

And damn...damn, Sam, damn. He is so handsome and sexy and perfect. I'm so glad they are back in Scotland.

[theschnauzers]

2 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I'm fine with the changes to the scene introducing John Grey.  I've always thought Jamie kind of came off as an asshole there in the book, which I know was largely for show but I still don't consider it one of his finer moments, so making it another one of those things where he and Claire are clearly in sync with each other to the bemusement of Murtagh and the rest of the men worked fine for me.  I had a moment I thought the actor playing John Grey was the same one as Young Simon too.  He wasn't terrible, but I do very much hope by the time we see the character again they have a much better suited actor for the role.

In the books, we don't encounter Lord Gray again for 20 years; and even in the Voyager/Drums of Autumn flashbacks of Jamie post Culloden, Lord John is roughly in his mid-20s when Jamie encounters him again in prison. So I suspect there will be a different actor cast for those story arcs at that point.

Edited June 5, 2016 by theschnauzers

[WatchrTina]

Well, I just listened to Ron's podcast for this episode.  I'm so grateful that he takes the time to do those.  

One thing that came to light in the podcast is that the actor who played Willie (who's name they deliberately declined to mention) was unavailable for his scenes and that was apparently a pretty big deal and a real disappointment to Ron.  I interpreted that to mean that the character of Wille WAS created in season one with the intention that he be the same Willie who witnesses a key event at the end of season two, and now that storyline cannot come to fruition.  I wonder who they are going to have witness that event instead?  Maybe no one.  Maybe that motivation for Jamie staying and fighting (and planning to die) at Culloden will simply be glossed over.

Matt B. Roberts, the writer, had the same complaint I had.  When Jamie and Dougal have their face-to-face heated discussion following Dougal breaking up the training session with his five-man Highlander-style "raid", the scene is shot on uneven ground and Sam is positioned slightly downhill of Graham, making Jamie look shorter than Dougal.  I (and Matt) would have blocked that so that Sam (who actually is slightly taller than Graham) stood uphill so that Jamie loomed over Dougal.  Maybe that would have made for too much of a height difference for a close-up two-shot like that -- I've noticed many a close-up two-shot of Jamie and Claire where Cait is clearly standing on something to bring her height closer to Sam's.

I liked this episode but I also agree with this line from the New York Times review of the episode in which they noted that: 

Quote

After the immense upheaval of the last few episodes it feels good for the show to slow down and calibrate the emotional dynamics of its characters. Not much happens in this hour and it feels like the show is laying the groundwork for some potentially startling events.

I, too, had acknowledged to myself that "not much happens" in this episode. But Ron made two good points in the pod-cast related to this.

1. Preparing for battle is really important and if you look at movies like "Glory" and "Full Metal Jacket", or TV shows like "Band of Brothers" you'll see that most of the time in those war films is spent on getting the men ready to fight, not on the fighting.
2. Battles are really time-consuming to film.  You have to, literally, choose your battles when filming a war story.

BTW, the New York Time review is quite complimentary (you might not have gotten that from the quote above).  I'll post a link in the media thread.

I knew, from the book, that Highlanders did not go into battle bare-chested and encumbered with kilts.  If they took off anything it would be the kilt.  They either fought in just their long shirts or they fought buck naked.  Both of those would have been problematic to film:  the long shirts might look like nightgowns and five buck-naked men running full-tilt at the camera might have been a bit much even for STARZ (not to mention the actors.)  Ron basically said the same thing so we got that nice shot of bare-chested Graham McTavish in a kilt leading that faux charge.  I'm not complaining.  Bare-chested kilted men is basically a visual theme of this show at this point and that's a good thing in my book.

Ron noted (as did I) that Jamie is wearing his bad-ass leather jacket (his father's jacket -- the one he started wearing in "Lallybroch") in the scene where he explains to the men what it's really like to face red-coats and a disciplined line of musket fire.  A perfect bad-ass costume for that speech.

As much as I love the scenes with William (John) Grey (and I do LOVE the looks Claire gives Jamie when he "enthusiastically" follows her lead with the role-playing) it is important to note that Jamie's men WILL kill the young boy if the information he gave up proves to be false.  Ron acknowledges that in that moment Jamie is being portrayed as "a man of his times."

Ron & Matt thought it was important for Claire & Dougal to revisit the promise she made right before the Wentworth raid -- that if Jamie was dead, she would marry Dougal.  I don't understand why that had to be re-visited.  My take on that earlier scene was:

1. Claire's promise only bound her to marry Dougal if Jamie died at Wentworth -- not that if Jamie EVER died, she was supposed to seek out Dougal and fulfill her promise, and
2. Claire never intended to honor that promise anyway (and I think they both knew it.)

Ron later said that he assumed that Claire HAD told Jamie about the promise, followed by her quickly saying "Of course I would NEVER have married him".  I'm glad he said that because that means his take was the same as mine, but given that, I think the scene in this episode feels a bit weird.  I guess we're supposed to believe that Dougal the narcissist actually believes that, deep down, Claire would have been happy to marry a fine specimen of a man like him and therefore he could use that information to pressure Claire into doing his bidding (influencing Jamie.)  Maybe I'll buy into that on subsequent viewings but on the first pass it didn't work for me.

Edited June 5, 2016 by WatchrTina

[morgan]

i just listened to Ron's podcast too and like you am so happy he does this.  They definitely didn't sound happy with the actor who played Willie, which is too bad.  I wonder if they will have a witness at all now or if they will have it be someone we aren't terribly invested in.  I wonder if once Dougal is with the Mackenzie men (assuming he will be), there will be someone who sort of stands out as a possibility.  Or they could play it completely differently.  Either way I am guessing we most likely won't be seeing Willie in NC.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

One thing that came to light in the podcast is that the actor who played Willie (who's name they deliberately declined to mention) was unavailable for his scenes and that was apparently a pretty big deal and a real disappointment to Ron.  I interpreted that to mean that the character of Wille WAS created in season one with the intention that he be the same Willie who witnesses a key event at the end of season two, and now that storyline cannot come to fruition.  I wonder who they are going to have witness that event instead?  Maybe no one.  Maybe that motivation for Jamie staying and fighting (and planning to die) at Culloden will simply be glossed over.

 

Or it might be Angus, a character that was created for the show, who will see this. Or some other Highlander. I do want to see this, and hopes it doesn't get glossed over.

7 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

 

I, too, had acknowledged to myself that "not much happens" in this episode. But Ron made two good points in the pod-cast related to this.

1. Preparing for battle is really important and if you look at movies like "Glory" and "Full Metal Jacket", or TV shows like "Band of Brothers" you'll see that most of the time in those war films is spent on getting the men ready to fight, not on the fighting.
2. Battles are really time-consuming to film.  You have to, literally, choose your battles when film a war story.

 

And

we will see this in the next episode, where the battle of Prestonpas is filmed for eight minutes and will play out in real time, per Brown's interview

8 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Ron & Matt thought it was important to Claire & Dougal to revisit the promise she made right before the Wentworth raid -- that if Jamie was dead, she would marry Dougal.  I don't understand why that had to be re-visited.  My take on that earlier scene was:

1. Claire's promise only bound her to marry Dougal if Jamie died at Wentworth -- not that if Jamie EVER died, she was supposed to seek out Dougal and fulfill her promise, and
2. Claire never intended to honor that promise anyway (and I think they both knew it.)

Ron later said that he assumed that Claire HAD told Jamie about the promise, followed by her quickly saying "Of course I would NEVER" have married him.  I'm glad he said that because that means his take was the same as mine, but given that, I think the scene in this episode feels a bit weird.  I guess we're supposed to believe that Dougal the narcissist actually believes that, deep down, Claire would have been happy to marry a fine specimen of a man like him and therefore he could use that information to pressure Claire into doing his bidding (influencing Jamie.)  Maybe I'll buy into that on subsequent viewings but on the first pass it didn't work for me.

I fully expected Claire to tell Dougal to his face, "I lied." But what she said was just as good, if not better. And I totally believe that Dougal, well, show!Dougal is narcissist enough to actually believe that Claire would be happy to marry him. 

[Summer]

26 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

One thing that came to light in the podcast is that the actor who played Willie (who's name they deliberately declined to mention) was unavailable for his scenes and that was apparently a pretty big deal and a real disappointment to Ron.

You know, I did think it was kind of strange when Claire asked where Willie was they made such a production about him getting married and moving to America.  You could argue that they acted that way because the thought of marriage is unappealing to Rupert and Angus, but then again, it could be a little dig to the actor (Finn, I think his name is) getting the message across that producers were not happy he didn't return.  I've heard that sometimes if a show has bad blood with an actor they will purposely kill them off to send the message that their departure is permanent.  I actually heard that's what happened when they killed off Col. Blake on MASH, the producers were so upset the actor wanted to leave they permanently off'd him.  Just a theory is all.  And, yes, I am old enough to remember MASH, lol!

Did anyone catch the wink Murtaugh gave Claire when they first met up at the camp? Adorable 

I really liked the PTSD with Claire, thought it made sense, but agree with another poster, seemed to go on a bit too long.

And YES, loved the way they changed the William Grey scene.  Much better this way and loved the looks Jamie and Claire were giving each other.  Well done.  

[chocolatetruffle]

O.K. so I know I've said it before, but now THIS is my favorite episode of the season (so far!!) and I can't wait to see what's coming up.  

First I must give a shout out to the cinematographer whose lighting brilliantly captured the the expansive vistas of Scotland, making it the third star of the show after J&C.  The light is everything. The lighting of the opening scenes of the march, the scene as Jamie & Claire leave the stone house and meet up w/ Rupert et al, Jamie's speech and training scenes, and the final march to Prince Charlie's camp, was achingly beautiful.  I want to marry the cinematographer and have him follow me around with his camera everyday :-)! Really, though, it went a long way to establish what these men are really fighting for, making it personal and deeply emotional. It reminded me so much of the first season Rent episode which brings me too...

Loved the contrast of the relationship between Jamie and Dougal from that episode.  Jamie, now at the height of his powers as leader and Laird, and Dougal who recognizes and respects the man that Jamie has become. It was very adroitly done by both actors, writer and director and for me, was the central story arch of the episode.  The strapping scene sealed it. Now I get it: Jamie has become the smart, strong but compassionate leader and it's totally believable that his men will follow him anywhere. King of Men, indeed.  

Because the main story in this episode was Jamie's, I actually enjoyed the side story of Claire's PTSD and thought it was well-executed.  It gave her a stronger stake in this battle because we get to see why she is determined to stay at Jamie's side (beyond he's her husband and she loves him) and gives her a practical mission.  

I freaking loved the William Grey scene: it had multiple levels of fun for me.  Again, it allowed Claire to have a role in the story and showed us (as others have said) that J&C are equals and work as one. I also loved the looks on the faces of the extras once they were clued in to what was happening.  And the look on Jamie's face when Claire kicked him (deservedly so after he got a little to "free" with his hands) was priceless!! Sidenote - Jamie awaking a sleeping Claire to tell her of his latest misadventures will never get old for me. (nice Lallybroch reach-back)

Performances:  Graham McT was standout portraying Dougal as passionate patriot, loving (and proud) uncle, and outright weasel in his scene with Claire.  Dougal had to know that idea would never fly with Claire, but he just had to try it anyway.  And then totally sold his love of Scotland.  Cait was believable and heartbreaking throughout the PTSD story.  And the MVP has to go to Sam because JAMMF in this episode was EVERYTHING!  I think my favorite scene of his was at the very end, when he gave Dougal the honor of announcing their arrival at Prince Charlie's camp.  Between the music, the vistas and quiet way he delivered those lines with care and respect, brought tears to these eyes.

[WatchrTina]

I just listened to The Scot and the Sassenach's podcast for this episode and I wanted to share one thing that really struck me.  One of the things I love about that podcast is that Alastair actually is a Scot.  He brings a cultural knowledge to the discussion that I don't have.   Some have wondered why Dougal, war chieftain of the MacKenzies, would be portrayed as being so mistaken in his understanding of what fighting the British will be like.  Alastair shared, in the podcast, that the "Highland Charge" that Dougal thought would be so effective, is exactly what the MacDonald Clan tried at Culloden.  They charged -- and were mowed down in precisely the way that Jamie describes to his troops.  So the characterization of Dougal -- a 50-something War Chieftain who has been staging secret cattle raids and fighting other clans "Highland Style" for over 30 years -- is a realistic portrayal of the naive thinking that led the Highlanders to believe that they could fight the British Army, including British artillery, in the traditional way and win.  This episode does a good job of depicting the thinking that caused the uprising to fail.  If every Highland "general" had taken the time to train his men in ways of modern warfare like Jamie did, things might have turned out differently.  Maybe not -- I don't know that the Jacobites had access to the weapons that they really needed for the fight -- but it's an interesting question to consider.

[morgan]

I loved that point about the end of one style of warfare, and the beginning of a new.  I wandered over to the non bookreaders thread to see what their take was and I know better than to respond but oh how I wanted to!  They have missed a lot of details.  Not many over there so not sure if that is typical of non book readers in general.  I fill my husband in as he has questions so don't really keep track of his nonreader response.

[chocolatetruffle]

I haven't listened to the S&S yet, but wondered if they mentioned anything about Dougal coming without the Mackenzie clan? In the first episode when Claire and Frank are at Culloden moor they mentioned (and showed) Mackenzie graves (mass graves I believe).  Am I remembering that correctly?  So I just thought it curious that no Mackenzies had followed Dougal there, despite Colum's neutrality.   

[morgan]

Colum is still alive and still clan leader.  Mackenzies will follow his lead...until he is no longer alive that is.  

[WatchrTina]

chocolatetruffle I don't remember if they addressed that specifically or not.  His turning up in this episode with only Rupert and Angus as his entourage is certainly an "off-book" moment but it's one I love it because of the conflict it sets up between Dougal and Jamie -- a conflict that I think helps set the stage for the final conflict between them at the end of this season.  This is the book talk thread so I can acknowledge that when Culloden happens, Dougal will be there, leading the MacKenzies of Leoch -- or what is left of them.  Colum's desire for neutrality will be a moot point by then.

[chocolatetruffle]

Thanks WatchrTina - I have this vivid memory of Mackenzie gravestones so I know the show had set it up for them to be there so was kinda thrown that we didn't see any.  I assume than that at some point (perhaps after Colum dies) they will show up.

[Pallas]

3 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I guess we're supposed to believe that Dougal the narcissist actually believes that, deep down, Claire would have been happy to marry a fine specimen of a man like him and therefore he could use that information to pressure Claire into doing his bidding (influencing Jamie.)  

I think Dougal believed that Claire would prefer that Jamie not know she'd made any such agreement, whether or not she'd intended to honor it. And to Jamie, what would honor dictate about a pledge Claire had made to his uncle, on Jamie's behalf, and where Dougal had fulfilled his role? Rather than get into all that with Red Jamie, Dougal suspected, she'd be willing to counsel her husband to accept Dougal's offer of help.

[toolazy]

Aren't there Mackenzie's other than the Mackenzie's of Leoch?  I'm honestly asking - I have no idea how this all works.

[WatchrTina]

Pallas  I guess the thing I found odd about Dougal's attitude was his hinting that revealing to Jamie the promise that Claire made would reflect poorly on Claire -- that it was something that she would want to keep secret.  He implies that it somehow portrayed her in a bad light -- as if she made that promise out of concern for her own safety and not because she was forced into it.  If so, then Dougal is a fool.  His having pressured Claire into making that promise in order to gain access to his men for a rescue effort reflects poorly on him, Dougal, not on Claire.  So I don't buy the idea that "threatening" to tell Jamie about it makes any sense.  Dougal is a smart guy.  That threat is dumb.

toolazy in real life yes there are multiple MacKenzie clans.  At least, that is what I assume because at one point in the later books Roger introduces himself as a MacKenzie of ___________ (someplace far away) in order to evade some questions from someone who knows the local MacKenzies and finds it suspicious that he's never heard of Roger.

Regarding Lord John (William) Grey:

Quote

I suspect there will be a different actor cast for those story arcs at that point.

I certainly hope so.  With all due respect to the young actor we saw in episode 209, I think they need to cast an actor in his early-to-mid-30s who can, like Sam Heughan, play 10-years younger in his early scenes in Season 3 (at the Prison and at Helwater), then can play his own age in the latter scenes of Season 3, and can believably age into his 40s in later seasons.  

Edited June 5, 2016 by WatchrTina

[Dust Bunny]

1 hour ago, morgan said:

I wandered over to the non bookreaders thread to see what their take was and I know better than to respond but oh how I wanted to!  They have missed a lot of details.  Not many over there so not sure if that is typical of non book readers in general.  I fill my husband in as he has questions so don't really keep track of his nonreader response.

Oh, the power of context! There are so many times I've wanted to respond, as well. We have the benefit of seeing the long-game - not just the end of DiA/Season 2, but knowing how the characters, like Himself and Dr. Claire, grow and adapt throughout all the books.

Part of me wonders which group of viewers are harder for the producers to manage: book readers or non-bookreaders. 

[AheadofStraight]

2 hours ago, morgan said:

I loved that point about the end of one style of warfare, and the beginning of a new.  I wandered over to the non bookreaders thread to see what their take was and I know better than to respond but oh how I wanted to!  They have missed a lot of details.  Not many over there so not sure if that is typical of non book readers in general.  I fill my husband in as he has questions so don't really keep track of his nonreader response.

I always want to respond too - and sometimes I forget where I am and do respond and have to delete my post! I'm disappointed they want to see more Frank! (ugh)

[cryptaknight]

Loved the episode for all the reasons everyone has already covered, and I agree with those who liked the changes to the LJG scene.

Also loved the genuine smile Murtaugh bestowed on Jamie and Claire when they arrived and the warm interaction between Claire and Fergus.

[Jodithgrace]

I have to laugh when they complain about not seeing more Frank also. The thing is the early books are mostly told in first person from Claire's POV. You can't tell that from the show except for Claire's voiceovers. But of course it means that we don't see Frank unless she does. Now the show does takes some liberties with this and shows us some scenes without Claire, but they really can't show extensive scenes of Frank without widely diverging from the books. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Outlander's Dougal Is Back And Balder Than Ever

While ramping up for war, the Frasers continue to catch up with old friends.

[satrunrose]

I really liked this episode too. I will say this for Ron Moore and co, I think they generally do a good job when they go off text, with the notable exception of "The Search". It stayed true to the spirit of the books and ditched a lot of the meandering back and forth from battle to battle to that argh I hate it so much Randal episode (although I'm sure that's coming). 

I was fine with the changes to our first meeting with Lord John (aka William). I never bought that it was in character for J- to rip Claire's dress off in front of his men and the "ha-ha fooled ya we're married" reveal seemed a little mean spirited to a kid who thought he was saving someone. I guess Jamie looses an opportunity to be cunning and merciful but it's not like it's the only time he'll show those traits. The thing I really liked about the way it showed on screen was all the non-verbal or semi-verbal stuff while they were fake struggling. They made it really clear that they got close to pushing it too far then pulled it back with a knee to the groin from Claire and the "Sasenach" from Jamie which felt so in character. 

Last but not least. Sam H. you are frikken' incredible! Grown up Jamie was completely amazing without sacrificing for a second the way he feels about Claire. I got all giggly and squee-y whenever Sam knocked a King of Men moment out of the park so I was a big pile o' goo for most of the hour. 

 

PS. Sam/Jamie is welcome to stage a commando raid of my camp any old time he wants to... providing there are kilts and war paint involved. Day-um.

Edited June 7, 2016 by satrunrose

[ElsieH]

I liked this episode much more than the previous one (I hated the fake vision and witchy stuff). But I was wondering about Claire's uniform in the flashbacks. She appears to be wearing full military fatigues with a regular tie that men wear. However, in episode 1 in season 1, she's got some kind of dress on with an apron. Are those both accurate with respect to what nurses would have worn in WWII? I'm not sure where she was supposed to have been at the end of the war, and perhaps the dress was different if she was in a battlefield situation. Was just curious if anyone knows about that.

[whoknowswho]

19 hours ago, AheadofStraight said:

I always want to respond too - and sometimes I forget where I am and do respond and have to delete my post! I'm disappointed they want to see more Frank! (ugh)

I'm never sure where I fit--in book or non book. I never finished the series and only read the first 3 books, and I think the fourth  because I have some recollection of things people have said about book 4. I forget so much, loved the first 3 so much, but I hated Frank--hate watching him now. I detached my retina and it's been virtually impossible to read "regular" books for a long time. 

Because it is a series I never finished, and really don't know much about the latter books, I like coming over here to try to catch some of what I missed. (But that's a huge amount!) So for me--the cast work, the storyline works--except last week's White Lady/Witch part and Laoghaire. After being tried as a witch, I don't think she would pretend to be one again, and the Laoghaire part--just confused me.  

So thanks for discussing everything!

[bearcatfan]

They never confirmed on the show that Alex is actually Frank's ancestor and not BJR if I'm not mistaken. That's a huge thing that the nonbookreaders have missed. Many of them still think that BJR is his ancestor. I wish they had shown that Murtaugh relieved the Duke of his head, but I can live with that.

[Petunia846]

Doesn't that happen later? I thought those things were still coming up, but my memory of the sequence of events in the book is shaky.

[Athena]

Those things are still coming up. Alex, Mary, and BJR come back. Alex dies and forces his brother to marry Mary on his death bed since he knows Mary is pregnant. Around this time, Murtagh brings Mary the head of the Duke since he filled his debt to her, Claire, and Jamie.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Athena
content correction

[bearcatfan]

7 minutes ago, Athena said:

Those things are still coming up. Alex, Mary, and BJR come back. Alex dies and forces his brother to marry BJR on his death bed since he knows Mary is pregnant. Around this time, Murtagh brings Mary the head of the Duke since he filled his debt to her, Claire, and Jamie.

Great! My memory of the sequence of events is obviously not the best but I was told that we were done with Paris until Voyager so I thought I'd missed it..

[Clawdette]

We are done with France but these things take place in Scotland.

[theschnauzers]

In the books, the forced marriage of Black Jack and Mary Hawkins with Claire and Jamie as witnesses for the wedding (at Alex's request) takes places in Edinburgh, after several victories by the forces of BPC, and they occupy the city. It comes before Culloden. I expect the show will get there around episode 11 or 12 (and 11 was the episode whose script was written by Diana.

[abbey]

Episode 11 is titled "vengance is mine" and I am guessing from that title that it will be the episode in which the Duke loses his head courtesy of Murtagh.

[Nidratime]

Episode 11 is Diana's episode. I saw a video of an appearance she made some weeks ago, which was really great. She talked all about her experiences being on set as they were shooting what I guess was her episode of the show. Someone asked her about writing the script and she said the one critique they had for her was that the characters sounded too much like "her voice," or I thought she meant "the book voice" as opposed to the TV show voice. I'm curious about this and can't wait to see that episode and whether I can pick up any difference, i.e., if the characters suddenly sound even more like Gabaldon than "the writing team." 

[morgan]

Did she have to alter it a bit or did they let it stand?  Definitely interested to see what her episode is like.  I could see it going either way.  

[Nidratime]

I think she worked on it to try to make it sound less like her. LOL! (I really wish I could find that video. It looked like it was shot at some tea party where the ladies wear hats and eat scones.)

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, Athena said:

Those things are still coming up. Alex, Mary, and BJR come back. Alex dies and forces his brother to marry BJR on his death bed since he knows Mary is pregnant. Around this time, Murtagh brings Mary the head of the Duke since he filled his debt to her, Claire, and Jamie.

Eh? Alex forces Rapist Black Jack to marry...himself?

Murtaugh shows Mary the Dewk's decapitated heid??????

[toolazy]

3 hours ago, Athena said:

Those things are still coming up. Alex, Mary, and BJR come back. Alex dies and forces his brother to marry BJR on his death bed since he knows Mary is pregnant. Around this time, Murtagh brings Mary the head of the Duke since he filled his debt to her, Claire, and Jamie.

Murtaugh gives the Duke's head to Munro's widow because the Duke's people had just killed Munro. 

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Eh? Alex forces Rapist Black Jack to marry...himself?

Murtaugh shows Mary the Dewk's decapitated heid??????

Yes.  Mary was pregnant (with Alex's baby) and Alex didn't want her to be disgraced.  I'm not sure that Alex understood the depth of his brother's depravity. 

Edited June 7, 2016 by toolazy

[Athena]

I forgot Mrs Munro was there, but Murtagh does bow to Mary and Claire about it. Munro is the one who opens the bag.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, toolazy said:

Murtaugh gives the Duke's head to Munro's widow because the Duke's people had just killed Munro. 

Yes.  Mary was pregnant (with Alex's baby) and Alex didn't want her to be disgraced.  I'm not sure that Alex understood the depth of his brother's depravity. 

You misunderstood-Athena's original post made it sound like Akex was forcing Black Jack to marry Black Jack: like, coercing him to marry himself. I think she meant forcing him to wed Mary.

[lianau]

2 hours ago, toolazy said:

Murtaugh gives the Duke's head to Munro's widow because the Duke's people had just killed Munro. 

Yes.  Mary was pregnant (with Alex's baby) and Alex didn't want her to be disgraced.  I'm not sure that Alex understood the depth of his brother's depravity. 

He also wanted his baby to have his name .

[toolazy]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

You misunderstood-Athena's original post made it sound like Akex was forcing Black Jack to marry Black Jack: like, coercing him to marry himself. I think she meant forcing him to wed Mary.

Doh!. Reading is fundamental fail, I guess. 

Edited June 8, 2016 by toolazy