S06.E05: The Door

[paigow]

30 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

I still want to know where they get the trees to build.

Euron might have an epiphany....I'm the greatest pirate...I'll steal finished wood from the mainland...

[GrailKing]

Just in case, it's about show only but an interview so according to what I understand, Ican put it, but tag it.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/herocomplex/la-et-hc-sansa-stark-sophie-turner-20160523-snap-story.html

[GrailKing]

3 minutes ago, paigow said:

Euron might have an epiphany....I'm the greatest pirate...I'll steal finished wood from the mainland...

Don't forget nails,tar, sheeps for sails ( or whatever they're made from), I didn't see any industry on Pyke.

[paigow]

4 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Don't forget nails,tar, sheeps for sails ( or whatever they're made from), I didn't see any industry on Pyke.

He can order those by raven with fake CitiBraavos accounts...

[Love]

I watched this episode after reading the spoilers from the leak.  I don't think that Sansa meant to be malicious re: Jon vs LF.  I thought she seemed genuine in her talk with Brienne.  She gave Jon the cloak.  I think she trusts him as much as she can trust anyone.  

I want to bring up something that is puzzling me.  I want to know what Davos' motivation is.  He was the one who wanted Mel to bring Jon back in Ep. 2.  Then he acts as Jon's moral guidance once Jon is back.  Then he questions Mel's devotion to Jon, bringing up Stannis.  She explained herself when Jon came back.  Then this week he is the one to bring up Jon's bastard status.  I love Davos, but I can't follow his line of thinking.  

[AnnaMayWong]

A Girl and her face need to leave that Boring Braavos place, and get to hard steppin' posthaste back to Westeros to mete out some truly deserved retribution in this mad mad Game of Thrones race. 

[Subrookie]

So, what happens if Jon Snow conquers Westeros with Melisandre's thinking he was who the Lord of Light sent and Dany comes over from the east with this new Red lady thinking she is who the LoL sent? Then they fight? 

[GrailKing]

59 minutes ago, Love said:

I watched this episode after reading the spoilers from the leak.  I don't think that Sansa meant to be malicious re: Jon vs LF.  I thought she seemed genuine in her talk with Brienne.  She gave Jon the cloak.  I think she trusts him as much as she can trust anyone.  

I want to bring up something that is puzzling me.  I want to know what Davos' motivation is.  He was the one who wanted Mel to bring Jon back in Ep. 2.  Then he acts as Jon's moral guidance once Jon is back.  Then he questions Mel's devotion to Jon, bringing up Stannis.  She explained herself when Jon came back.  Then this week he is the one to bring up Jon's bastard status.  I love Davos, but I can't follow his line of thinking.  

He's a simple man who wants to follow a just leader, Stannis wasn't well liked but for the most part he was fair, he's also blessed with some common sense and changed Stannis mind on a few occasions when he felt his lord going in a wrong direction.

He sees Jon as a potential leader who tries to do the right thing even at the cost of his reputation and in this case his life, one thing Stannis was decent at was knowing others potential.

Knowing what he knows; I think he had to get Melisandre to bring him back despite his less than love for her religion, in desperate times people make desperate choices some work some don't.

He also knows people will only follow a leader who instills confidence; not fear as Ramsey does, he knows the North is screwed as long as Ramsey rules.

[Cthulhudrew]

So Cersei's big plan to get rid of the Tyrells was to invite the Sparrows into the kingdom, and now her big plan to undo the mistake of letting the Sparrows into the city is to invite the Tyrell army to declare martial law? 

No wonder Tywin didn't trust her with anything. Yeesh.

[CeeBeeGee]

On 5/23/2016 at 3:02 PM, LuciaMia said:

Thinking back now to last weeks episode. We all cheered when Dany gave it back, hot, to all those sneering Khals. But now, after the fact….realizing she committed murder, on a pretty huge scale.

Murder? Huh? That Khal stood up and declared that all 20-30 of them (plus their bloodriders, plus their horses) were literally going to rape her to death. This was after she'd asked if they wanted to join her. She gave them a fair choice; they responded by mortally threatening her. Not murder but self-defense.

[GrailKing]

7 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Murder? Huh? That Khal stood up and declared that all 20-30 of them (plus their bloodriders, plus their horses) were literally going to rape her to death. This was after she'd asked if they wanted to join her. She gave them a fair choice; they responded by mortally threatening her. Not murder but self-defense.

I called it a preemptive strike, I think most people if they can't run would strike the attacker first.

[MissLucas]

6 hours ago, Audreythe2nd said:

Lol. YUP. Seriously, she couldn't BE any less pleased with the way Tormund has been ogling her. How are people missing that detail, lol.

We're all Tormund.

[Lady S.]

15 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

Bran did warg out as he was dragged farther from the door.  Hodor's eyes returned to normal (not all white) during the close up at the end of the episode

I wonder if it's possible that was both Bran inside Hodor and young Wylis inhabiting his future self as he experienced his own death. Wylis didn't show any effects when Meera first told Bran to warg into Hodor, but something changed as Meera yelled about holding the door. Hodor did look a lot more aware of what was happening than any of the previous times Bran's done this to him. At Craster's Keep and in that wight attack when they first arrived at the cave, Hodor was more calm, almost machine-like. Here, there was fear and determination on his face by the end.  There's also the weird bit where Wylis seems to see Bran right before freaking out. Younger Ned heard Bran, but when he turned around he couldn't see anyone there. 

ETA: OK, the actor thinks Hodor did make the sacrifice at the end, so I'm choosing to believe he's right for my own peace of mind.
 

Quote

NYT: Did the fact that Bran was responsible for not only his death, but also his simple-mindedness change your idea about the nature of their relationship?
Kristian Nairn: No it doesn’t. Although Bran was responsible for the whole chain of events that killed Hodor, Hodor didn’t have to hold that door. He wasn’t being warged into at that stage. It was Meera who asked him to hold the door, it wasn’t Bran. He wants to protect the little guy. That’s all he’s ever done. He wants to help — this is the ultimate helping hand here. I just think he would be happy they could continue without him.

 

8 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

Did the 3ER ever forbid him to "wander" on his own? I can't recall, but even if he did, Bran was bored and curious..the one two punch of young boys which gets them into all sorts of trouble. Again, he couldn't have predicted the consequences nor did he intend them. Certainly, given the choice he would much rather have Hodor, the 3ER and Summer alive. 

Not that we ever saw. Nor did he say that the Night King could touch him in a vision or that doing so would alert the Night King to their location and undo the cave's magical protection. There's no way any of this would have happened if Bran actually had clear instructions. What was he even supposed to do with the rest of his waking hours when not on vision quests, when the boy can't even move around on his own? Wylis was very definitely a victim but Bran wasn't really in control of events with proper knowledge. He looked pained and horrified as he watched Wylis writhing on the ground, not as if he was making a conscious choice about Hodor's life not being as important as Meera's.

So, yeah, I don't get the idea that Bran is to blame for everything, and the adult in charge was right when the adult could certainly have done more to avoid all this. The 3ER clearly came from cryptic dick mentoring school, but if there's supposed to be any logic there instead of just being cryptic for the sake of being cryptic, then I think he have to have seen flashes of the future as well as knowing all about the past. I don't think he had an exact timeline but knowing his own death was coming would explain why Meera was told Bran wouldn't be in the cave forever and he'd need her help when it was time to leave. He couldn't prevent Bran from making mistakes because those mistakes were always going to happen in the time loop. 

Edited May 25, 2016 by Lady S.

[Isazouzi]

Since my job is to translate TV shows from English into French for French TV, I would like to take a moment and think about the impossible task (not mine, thankfully) of translating "Hold the door... Hodor" into French. "Tiens la porte... Hodor", nope, doesn't work. They'll probably just have Meera yell "Hodor" and the origin of the name will be lost on the viewers (at least, those who don't read the Internet, so not a lot). It's always a heartbreak for us when that happens. No one thinks about the translators! ;-)

[Haiti D]

I'm glad Sansa reminded Baelish of his whore-master past.  He knew must have known of Ramsey's evil.  And in effect, she's saying Baelish whored her out to Ramsey.  Man, would Catelyn Stark be pissed...

[AnnaMayWong]

I don't believe that Brandon warged into Hodor. However, Brandon was viewing past Wylis' transformation INTO Hodor. I believe Meera's voice reaching and disrupting  Bran's 'viewing' opened a pathway/conduit that allowed past Wylis' consciousness to link and bolster present-day Hodor's mind, thereby enabling Hodor to he❤rtrendingly "hold (that damn❗) door."

[AnnaMayWong]

Bran was NOT the cause of all  the machinations, mayhem, and murders in Kinky King's Landing. He is no more a villainous character than Catelyn with her errs and Sansa with her arrogance. Perhaps, Catelyn should not have pressed Ned to accept The Position. He sure didn't wish to do so just as Ned didn't count on certain persons revealing his plans of escape for his family and himself. Sansa was supposed to keep her mouth shut yet in a spoiled vain selfish snit did not . Cersei sure took advantage of that deliberate 'slip' of the tongue.

[RedHawk]

8 hours ago, GrailKing said:

I still want to know where they get the trees to build.

See, those Kingsmoot voters were too caught up in boasts about cock size and attacks on an opponent who used big words like "gallivanting" to ask the hard questions. And once again the journalists of the Iron Islands failed in their duty. How is it there was not one follow-up question regarding that confession of fratricide?

[RedHawk]

9 hours ago, Audreythe2nd said:

Lol. YUP. Seriously, she couldn't BE any less pleased with the way Tormund has been ogling her. How are people missing that detail, lol.

On the next Game of Thrones: Tormund asks to borrow Jon Snow's deodorant and hair product. 

[Hecate7]

28 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

See, those Kingsmoot voters were too caught up in boasts about cock size and attacks on an opponent who used big words like "gallivanting" to ask the hard questions. And once again the journalists of the Iron Islands failed in their duty. How is it there was not one follow-up question regarding that confession of fratricide?

It didn't come up again because Euron explained that he paid the Iron Price for the throne. Killing the previous owner, paying the Iron Price, is the most honorable way to obtain something in their culture. It is a rather stupid culture.

[Drogo]

2 hours ago, BookElitist said:

Perhaps, Catelyn should not have pressed Ned to accept The Position.

Quite the contrary: Catelyn was very unhappy about Ned accepting Hand of the King.  She wanted him to say no and reminded him of what happened when his family went to KL, but when the letter arrived from the Eyrie saying the Lannisters had killed Jon Arryn Ned was pressured by Luwin to go and protect Robert. 

 

7 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Murder? Huh? That Khal stood up and declared that all 20-30 of them (plus their bloodriders, plus their horses) were literally going to rape her to death. This was after she'd asked if they wanted to join her. She gave them a fair choice; they responded by mortally threatening her. Not murder but self-defense.

I believe Daenerys went into that tent with no intention other than "I'm going to burn the place down with the current Khals inside, and walk out like a G so all the Dothraki will follow me."  Leaving any of the Khals alive would've only lead to challenges. 

The Dothraki follow strength.  Kill all the Khals, become the Undisputed Champion of the World. 

[Popples]

22 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Tormund is gonna be so pissed when he finds out Brienne's heart beats for that one-armed rich ponce Jaime Lannister.

Yeah, but Jaime is still all into Cersei. See that "fuck everyone who isn't us" line from the first episode this season. So Tormund's still in with a chance!

[Daisy]

Tormund totally has a chance!
 

[Audreythe2nd]

Quote

We're all Tormund.

We're all people who leer at women despite their obvious discomfort and convince ourselves they are into us regardless?... Well, I guess that does sum up society, so OK.

Tormund has no chance. Chance percentage is about 0%.

And no offense to the actor who plays Hodor, but I think he's also interpreting the scene wrong. I guess people can see it how they want to see it, however. I prefer the darker interpretation, because I think it makes more sense based on what we've been shown.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Audreythe2nd

[Isazouzi]

13 minutes ago, Audreythe2nd said:

And no offense to the actor who plays Hodor, but I think he's also interpreting the scene wrong. I guess people can see it how they want to see it, however. I prefer the darker interpretation, because I think it makes more sense based on what we've been shown.

 

Could you extrapolate on that? Sorry if you've already done so, but the conversation is all over the place, and I'm struggling to remember which interpretation is the darkest (no snark intended).

[Audreythe2nd]

Sure. Darker interpretation (in my view) is that it was Bran warging into Hodor the whole time he was holding the door. Therefore, it was against Hodor's will.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Audreythe2nd

[Drogo]

17 minutes ago, Audreythe2nd said:

Quote

We're all Tormund.

We're all people who leer at women despite their obvious discomfort and convince ourselves they are into us regardless?... Well, I guess that does sum up society, so OK.

I believe the OP was saying many of us would like to see these two find happiness with each other. 

[Audreythe2nd]

I know that, which is fine. I was just pointing out a counter-interpretation of the current state of that relationship, in which Brienne doesn't seem very receptive to those affections, therefore not "happy." But I've already overthought what was obviously just supposed to be a joke by the writers enough. Just trying to say that I don't think she's going to be into that redbeard, sorry. :)

[MrWhyt]

On 5/23/2016 at 4:37 PM, dramachick said:

I hated that Sansa believed that lie about her uncle retaking his castle, but maybe she'll finally kill him when she learns the truth. As far as we know, her mother's brother Edmund is still alive and married to a Frey. Even if he was free, he wouldn't send any army north.  Brienne will probably get captured by the Freys and thrown in the dungeon when she goes to the Riverland

According to Littlefinger it was The Black Fish, Cat's uncle Brynden, who has retaken Riverrun. Cat's brother Edmure is still presumably a prisoner of the Freys.

[paigow]

Brienne: [internal monologue] This barbarian is disgusting....but.... he never tried to kill me, which led to being captured and tortured...Probably would not dump me for his sister...ok..maybe one date..

Edited May 25, 2016 by paigow

[Calamity Jane]

12 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

So Cersei's big plan to get rid of the Tyrells was to invite the Sparrows into the kingdom, and now her big plan to undo the mistake of letting the Sparrows into the city is to invite the Tyrell army to declare martial law? 

No wonder Tywin didn't trust her with anything. Yeesh.

Her plans arrive direct from ACME.  

[DarkRaichu]

1 hour ago, Audreythe2nd said:

I know that, which is fine. I was just pointing out a counter-interpretation of the current state of that relationship, in which Brienne doesn't seem very receptive to those affections, therefore not "happy." But I've already overthought what was obviously just supposed to be a joke by the writers enough. Just trying to say that I don't think she's going to be into that redbeard, sorry. :)

I would concur that based on what we've seen so far Brienne was more into the pretty boys archtype (ie. Renly & Jaime), BUT she has not met any "bear" type that gives her attention either.  So you never know... :P

[dramachick]

2 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

According to Littlefinger it was The Black Fish, Cat's uncle Brynden, who has retaken Riverrun. Cat's brother Edmure is still presumably a prisoner of the Freys.

I might believe that the Black Fish holds his castle, but if he can't rescue Edmure from Walder Frey, then he doesn't have enough soldiers to send north and help Sansa.  Littlefinger is a lying liar who lies.

[NoWillToResist]

On 5/23/2016 at 3:47 PM, Daisy said:

I think we need more happy:



Brienne. the man loves you. just go with it. 

Jesus. He looks DERANGED. I'm dying with laughter over here. :D  He has all the subtlety of a brick. Bless him.

 

On 5/24/2016 at 10:43 AM, RedHawk said:

Tormund is gonna be so pissed when he finds out Brienne's heart beats for that one-armed rich ponce Jaime Lannister.

...right? I don't know...if she gave him a chance, I think they'd get along.

 

2 hours ago, paigow said:

Brienne: [internal monologue] This barbarian is disgusting....but.... he never tried to kill me, which led to being captured and tortured...Probably would not dump me for his sister...ok..maybe one date..

Heh. Also, Tormund gets a bonus point for belonging to a society which would actually value Brienne's strength, rather than mock her for it. Be honest, folks: he is so turned on by Brienne that he's struck dumb and can only stare at her in disbelief and wonder. :D

[Daisy]

1 minute ago, NoWillToResist said:

Jesus. He looks DERANGED. I'm dying with laughter over here. :D  He has all the subtlety of a brick. Bless him.

...right? I don't know...if she gave him a chance, I think they'd get along.

Heh. Also, Tormund gets a bonus point for belonging to a society which would actually value Brienne's strength, rather than mock her for it. Be honest, folks: he is so turned on by Brienne that he's struck dumb and can only stare at her in disbelief and wonder. :D

Right? Like to me - maybe it's supposed to be meant as a joke (the actress who plays Brienne loves it, for what it's worth, she's like it's so great). but honestly, I think this is going to be good for Brienne. He finds her beautiful. He respects her strength. She'd always have a voice. And goodness knows she'll give as good as she'll get with him. It's just that he's so awkward about it Brienne can't handle it. I guess I am team Tormund about this because i have a sinking suspicion I'm the Tormund in a lot of my crushes LOL)

[LeLalique]

13 hours ago, Subrookie said:

So, what happens if Jon Snow conquers Westeros with Melisandre's thinking he was who the Lord of Light sent and Dany comes over from the east with this new Red lady thinking she is who the LoL sent? Then they fight? 

Perhaps the two shall become one ... Fire and Ice

[dangwoodchucks]

How is it that Bran's clothes still fit him?

[NoWillToResist]

14 hours ago, Subrookie said:

So, what happens if Jon Snow conquers Westeros with Melisandre's thinking he was who the Lord of Light sent and Dany comes over from the east with this new Red lady thinking she is who the LoL sent? Then they fight? 

I think Jon and Dany would actually be very compatible co-rulers (not that Jon has any interest in ruling). He'd probably be fine to help her get the throne, trusting that she'll be a decent ruler once she got there.

 

23 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Right? Like to me - maybe it's supposed to be meant as a joke (the actress who plays Brienne loves it, for what it's worth, she's like it's so great). but honestly, I think this is going to be good for Brienne. He finds her beautiful. He respects her strength. She'd always have a voice. And goodness knows she'll give as good as she'll get with him. It's just that he's so awkward about it Brienne can't handle it. I guess I am team Tormund about this because i have a sinking suspicion I'm the Tormund in a lot of my crushes LOL)

As much as I loved Brienne's good influence on Jaime and their gradual warming to each other, there is something to be said for a character who just immediately appreciates Brienne's assets. Jaime took months to view her as worthwhile and his initial reaction to her was so insulting and hurtful. Whereas Tormund seemed to be all "holy shit, look at the size of that woman! That's fucking awesome! I think I'm a little in love. Play it cool, Tormund. Play it cool" and has proceeded to gaze like a dim-witted calf at her.

I just find it inexplicably endearing. :D

Edited May 25, 2016 by NoWillToResist

[Drogo]

Jaime's first impression of Brienne:

 

Tormund's first impression of Brienne:

[RedHawk]

24 minutes ago, dangwoodchucks said:

How is it that Bran's clothes still fit him?

Seamstress extraordinaire Sansa was sending care packages? 

To: Bran Stark
c/o Three-Eyed Raven
Hole Deep in the Tree Roots
Cave Somewhere North of The Wall
Westeros

Edited May 25, 2016 by RedHawk

[NoWillToResist]

55 minutes ago, Drogo said:

Jaime's first impression of Brienne:

 

Tormund's first impression of Brienne:

Actually, Jaime's first impression of Brienne happened back when he was in that cage on Robb's battlefield. I think it was "Good God, is that beast a woman?" or something to that effect.

So yeah, either way, Tormund is coming up roses. ;)

I suppose one could argue that Tormund's gobsmacked expression (shown above) is one of horror but I can't interpret it that way. Wildlings, IMO, would not be shy in their opinions so if he thought she was some hideous freak, he'd have said something by now. His staring in silence makes me think the poor fucker is smitten and it utterly ignorant how to approach her. :D

Maybe he should try to butter up Sansa to put in a good word for him. ;)

Brienne's impatient yet mystified reaction to Tormund's behaviour is the icing on this wonderfully unexpected cake.

 

To take a step away from the Brienne/Tormund appreciation for a moment, I have to ask: what's Bran's plan? The zombies move hella fast so there isn't any point in that chick dragging his sorry ass off; she can't hope to outrun the walkers. Now that Bran has presumably got Tree Dude's skills, can he just morph into a raven and fly the hell outta there?

Edited May 25, 2016 by NoWillToResist

[Audreythe2nd]

Just saying, you can analyze Tormund's facial expression, you can act like Brienne's going to come around to him  (in spite of her, "Seriously, this guy is creeping me out" reaction not once, not twice, but three times), you can rationalize it by saying Jaime was mean to her or called her ugly... she's in love with the one-handed ponce (heh) regardless, and that's not going to be an insignificant piece of information to the plot. Sorry, just a feeling I have. :)

The T/B stuff is making me laugh though. So much devotion based on a few moments of comic relief.

[RedHawk]

Hey, this is a pretty dark world we're visiting here. A little love and laughter goes a LONG way.

[NoWillToResist]

5 minutes ago, Audreythe2nd said:

Just saying, you can analyze Tormund's facial expression, you can act like Brienne's going to come around to him  (in spite of her, "Seriously, this guy is creeping me out" reaction not once, not twice, but three times), you can rationalize it by saying Jaime was mean to her or called her ugly... she's in love with the one-handed ponce (heh) regardless, and that's not going to be an insignificant piece of information to the plot. Sorry, just a feeling I have. :)

The T/B stuff is making me laugh though. So much devotion based on a few moments of comic relief.

Much like the old "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" saying, I subscribe to the lesser known "an admirer of my fave becomes a fave too" ;)

I think it's nice that a man seems to be attracted to Brienne, and not in a "I'm going to try to rape her so that this big bitch knows who's boss" kind of way. Her reactions to the "attention" are wonderful and I think speak to the fact that this is new ground for her...

Edited May 25, 2016 by NoWillToResist

[greyhorse]

I must be the only idiot that really doesn't understand the ending, judging by reading posts here.  Bran warged into Hodor, but the image he saw of Wylis was the younger functioning Wylis.  How does the young healthy Wylis all of a sudden start saying Hold the Door and essentially predicting his future death?  So confused, despite however many recaps of the episode I read....

Not sure what the point of showing the Joffrey actor's rather funny looking curved penis was.  But not complaining about the Sansa actress and her complaining about only getting two lines.

[greyhorse]

I must be the only idiot that really doesn't understand the ending, judging by reading posts here.  Bran warged into Hodor, but the image he saw of Wylis was the younger functioning Wylis.  How does the young healthy Wylis all of a sudden start saying Hold the Door and essentially predicting his future death?  So confused, despite however many recaps of the episode I read....

Not sure what the point of showing the Joffrey actor's rather funny looking curved penis was.  But not complaining about the Sansa actress and her complaining about only getting two lines.

[mojoween]

David and DB "apologize" for Sunday's episode.

[fellini]

I think every time a character on Game of Thrones is killed we should say rest in peace. Rest in Peace Hodor. =0)

[Harald Hardrada]

17 hours ago, paigow said:

Euron might have an epiphany....I'm the greatest pirate...I'll steal finished wood from the mainland...

He should start by stealing a better crown then. Even horseshoe is better than that crap he wear on his head.

[meep.meep]

2 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Seamstress extraordinaire Sansa was sending care packages? 

To: Bran Stark
c/o Three-Eyed Raven
Hole Deep in the Tree Roots
Cave Somewhere North of The Wall
Westeros

Don't leave by the back door, 

Children of Forest will sign at cave entrance.

 

I thought Tormund was married/in a committed relationship.  Didn't he say something about his daughters?  I don't think Brienne is the type for casual romance.