S02.E07: Shiva

[HalcyonDays]

Episode synopsis: The family faces their biggest test yet; Nick, Madison, Travis and others try to stay close to each other.

[HalcyonDays]

Here is your discussion thread for S02.E07: Shiva. This thread will open at Sunday May 22th at 10:00 pm

Prior to that, speculate and live-chat here --> S02.E07: Shiva - Pre-Air Speculation and Live Chat.

DO NOT post spoilers and DO NOT discuss the Walking Dead. To discuss the more popular Dead, go HERE.

As always, be civil and be respectful, but always have fun!!

[ottoDbusdriver]

Well that was stupid.  Where did all those walkers come from at the end ?  And why weren't they on fire ?  How did that entire building go up so quickly and no one notice the fumes beforehand ?  Because wine doesn't ignite like that, even if fueled by gasoline.

They didn't show Celia actually die so we know she will be back.

I don't know what the hell is going on with Travis and Chris.   Chris needs his daddy -- no, Chris needs to be locked up.  He pulled a knife on Travis.

Strand, Madison and Alicia (and maybe Ofelia) go back to the boat -- and then what ?

Who wrote this ?  Because it really sucked.

Edited May 23, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[JackONeill]

Lame. I've got nothing else.

[minamurray78]

So everyone went nutty, apparently. Still not ruling out Celia lacing their food with something. Boy, she was real crazy, and I didn't care for one word of her nonsensical lines. Worst of all, her actions indirectly costed us  Daniel, I think. I liked him. Silly show.

Edited May 23, 2016 by minamurray78

[TVFan17]

I'm bummed that we seemingly lost Daniel forever -- he was one of the only truly interesting characters on the show.

[Red Fields]

I hope the boat is still there.

[riverheightsnancy]

The actress who plays Madison couldn't even raise her voice above normal yelling when she's begging Nick to come with them. No tears, nothing. Her acting sucks so hard. 

[mustbekarma]

Why, oh why, did you have to go cray cray, Daniel? You were one of the best things about this show.

This show could be renamed "Fear the Walking Crazy People." Chris, Nick, and Daniel all were missing buttons off their sweaters. Good Grief. What did Celia put in that posole, LSD?

Well, this farm didn't last an entire season. Personally, I think Chris and Nick both need to look at the flowers. Too bad Travis look like he could be a casualty of this. I kind of like him.

I love how Maddie locked Celia in the wine cellar. The beauty of it is, it's technically not murder if Celia doesn't think the Walkers are dead.

I wish the actress playing Maddie was a little more expressive, but I have to say I'd trade Maddie for Lori or Andrea any day. Maddie don't play when it comes to her children's safety. I just she had  cold cocked Nick and dragged him with her.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I can't wait to see Hardwick try to polish this turd on TD -- because this was really terrible.

[Boofish]

I'm really trying to like this show but I will need at least one person to care about whether they live or die. 

[riverheightsnancy]

Is there a TD tonight? Cause that new show Preacher is  on. That is already better than FTWD has been over 2 seasons in it's first 15 minutes. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

Just now, riverheightsnancy said:

Is there a TD tonight? Cause that new show Preacher is  on. That is already better than FTWD has been over 2 seasons in it's first 15 minutes. 

It's on at 11:30pm

[riverheightsnancy]

3 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

It's on at 11:30pm

I feel sorry for Hardwick then. 

[Amelie06]

Why did Daniel set that fire? Why would he? He endangered the life of the daughter he is so obsessed with. And then he just stood there. Like a crazy asshole who doesn't know that fire is hot.

I find it ironic that Nick doesn't fear the walking dead. I wonder what his plan is. He is going to just walk among the zombies forever? Is he going to stay in the burned out husk of the mansion with angry employees who that hate him?

Madison's murder of Celia doesn't seem to have affected her at all. Or it has upset her terribly. I can't tell. It's clear that it was all for naught.

I really wanted them to just hit Nick upside the head and force him into the truck.

[TVFan17]

6 minutes ago, Amelie06 said:

Why did Daniel set that fire? Why would he? He endangered the life of the daughter he is so obsessed with. And then he just stood there. Like a crazy asshole who doesn't know that fire is hot.

I find it ironic that Nick doesn't fear the walking dead. I wonder what his plan is. He is going to just walk among the zombies forever? Is he going to stay in the burned out husk of the mansion with angry employees who that hate him?

Madison's murder of Celia doesn't seem to have affected her at all. Or it has upset her terribly. I can't tell. It's clear that it was all for naught.

I really wanted them to just hit Nick upside the head and force him into the truck.

My feeling about Daniel is that he was not really in his right mind, but in some abstract way he probably thought he was saving his daughter and the other people by killing those walkers.  More importantly, he had a death wish and wanted to stay with his wife.

[oakville]

25 minutes ago, minamurray78 said:

So everyone went nutty, apparently. Still not ruling out Celia lacing their food with something. Boy, she was real crazy, and I didn't care for one word of her nonsensical lines. Worst of all, her actions indirectly costed us  Daniel, I think. I liked him. Silly show.

Agreed. Celia must have put some drugs into the food. Chris went nuts. Nick went nuts. Daniel is hallucinating. Travis is wandering around with Chris.

[eejm]

So did we see Walker Daniel when Maddie, Alicia, and Ofelia were leaving at the end?  I'm too lazy to go back and check.

[thuganomics85]

Wow, I don't know if I'm just in a bad mood or something, but I thought this was boring as hell and pretty sucky.  Felt like nothing happened and everyone was just being crazy because reasons.

Let's see here: Chris has gotten crazy enough that he even threatened to hurt a child.  Travis has decided then and there that he's been a crap father to him, so he's decided to have them both go on their own, for the safety of the rest of them.  Yeah, good luck there, Travis.  I don't see you two lasting very long without some help.

Meanwhile, Nick has apparently totally bought into Ceila's "Walkers aren't dead!" thing, and he's all pissed over what Maddie and Daniel did, so he's off on his own.  And I kind of liked you, Nick!

Daniel sees visions of his dead wife and decides to repent his past sins by burning down everything and likely killing himself.  Where, there goes one of the better actors on this show.

Maddie locking up Ceila and dooming her, should have been awesome, but it's hard to care when even Maddie seems bored when doing it.  What is Kim Dickens trying to go for here?

Alicia barely does anything, but she at least seems to be concerned over Strand getting booted, so that alone, makes her one of the better ones in this episode.

I might have said more, but this new Preacher show is currently handing this show its ass already, so why put forth the effort?

[oakville]

30 minutes ago, riverheightsnancy said:

The actress who plays Madison couldn't even raise her voice above normal yelling when she's begging Nick to come with them. No tears, nothing. Her acting sucks so hard. 

I really don't understand her behavior. She doesn't seem to care about anything. I am glad she locked up Celia. Where did Daniel find the new walkers when he was locked up?

 

1 minute ago, eejm said:

So did we see Walker Daniel when Maddie, Alicia, and Ofelia were leaving at the end?  I'm too lazy to go back and check.

No. Wouldn't they do a close up of his face? Same thing with Celia. Half the Walkers in the final scene with Daniel didn't look like Walkers. There must have been budget cuts to the make up department.

[mmecorday]

Things I thought about during tonight's episode:

• Did I remember to put a dryer sheet in the dryer?
• Is it time to cut my toenails again?
• Wow, where did this calendar from 1991 come from?
• Damn, I can't believe that "Good Riddance" by Green Day is 20 years old!
• This level of Farm Heroes Saga sure is hard!
• Oh, the show's over.

[Red Fields]

I thought he was imagining them as they looked when alive.

[riverheightsnancy]

4 minutes ago, mmecorday said:

Things I thought about during tonight's episode:

• Did I remember to put a dryer sheet in the dryer?
• Is it time to cut my toenails again?
• Wow, where did this calendar from 1991 come from?
• Damn, I can't believe that "Good Riddance" by Green Day is 20 years old!
• This level of Farm Heroes Saga sure is hard!
• Oh, the show's over.

For me it was, what guys do I need to get past this area on Forge of Empires! lol

[oakville]

1 hour ago, Sherry67 said:

I'm bummed that we seemingly lost Daniel forever -- he was one of the only truly interesting characters on the show.

There is no proof that Daniel died.

15 minutes ago, riverheightsnancy said:

For me it was, what guys do I need to get past this area on Forge of Empires! lol

[ottoDbusdriver]

25 minutes ago, Red Fields said:

I thought he was imagining them as they looked when alive.

I thought Daniel was imagining all of the people that he had killed in his life -- because none of them looked like walkers.

[candall]

You know, I think I don't really dislike this show, except that the Madison character is KILLING me and she's so central to everything, I'm having trouble getting past it.

Take the scene where Madison slowly backs out of the cell and slowly pulls the doors together, observing Celia for a moment.  She's damn lucky Celia's reaction is to slowly turn around and stand there cranking out the hint of a tear because THEN Madison slowly reaches down and turns the key in the lock.

Slow-mo was also her method acting of choice when the whole place is going up in flames, the zombies are bearing down on them, Strand is revving the getaway truck, her daughter is screaming at her and she sees her missing son is safe, off in the distance.

And I'm not a fan of the "fart smell" comparison point, but Madison does perpetually wear an expression that suggests she's offended by something somewhat. . . distasteful.

Edited May 24, 2016 by candall

[kj4ever]

I was seriously hoping that strand would just go to the boat and the next season would just pick up with him. Kim brought new levels to bad acting tonight. I usually enjoy nick, but even he was god awful. 

So since this place was evil did they have some magic spell that kept all the walkers in place while they did that ridiculous scene with Celia and Madison? Just when I thought this show could not get any worse it goes and proves me wrong.

Edited May 23, 2016 by kj4ever

[TVFan17]

21 minutes ago, oakville said:

There is no proof that Daniel died.

That's why I said we seemingly lost Daniel forever -- there isn't any proof, but it seems like he may have died.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Sherry67

[Straycat80]

Not much on this show made sense to me. I still don't understand why Strand needed Travis and fam, Daniel and Orphelia to come on that boat to Mexico with him. All they did was cause dumb problems. 

Then Chris turns into Lizzie and Travis decides to what? Run around the desert with him until he gets better and abandon Maddie. 

Then you have Nick drenching himself in guts because he'd rather bond with zombies than hang with alive people. 

IDK , this show was not what I was expecting so I think I'm out. 

[truelovekiss]

So before this episode, the only 2 characters I could stand were Nick (mainly due to Frank Dillane's surprisingly good acting) and Daniel (because I enjoyed his unapologetic grit and determination to survive with his daughter). And this episode made me dislike both...and like MADISON. MADISON is currently my favorite character, Jesus help me. 

[Texasmom1970]

Well if the writers goal was to bore the viewers and make us ask what was that hour of crap I just watched, goal achieved. I truly did not even care about anything in the episode, good or bad to even comment.

[truelovekiss]

11 minutes ago, Sherry67 said:

That's why I said we seemingly lost Daniel forever -- there isn't any proof, but it seems like he may have died.

 With the recent trend of fakeout deaths (ie Dumpster Glenn) I wouldn't be surprised if they tried something like that. But after that, and then the Negan cliffhanger, I think people are already massively annoyed at AMC and their cheap tricks. The difference between the dumpster fakeout and the possibility of Daniel escaping the walker inferno is that no one gives a fuck about this show.

[NorthstarATL]

I think what annoyed me most was that Celia, so long on soliloquies throughout the episode, did not take the opportunity to confess to drugging the group before she met her dead friends! And I THINK that was a writing choice, but everyone bizarre behavior was an exaggeration of previously hinted at problems, as well as hallucinations, etc. WHY they couldn't just state that I have no idea, unless they think we're just supposed to instinctively know?

Things I liked, which were stated in the pre-air thread: Nick will NEVER be clean, which may be a metaphor for his addiction? (Heck, he even SHOWERS with clothes on!) Madison's actress's lack of emotional range, at least in terms of facial expression, makes her particularly good at entrapment! Celia NEVER saw that coming! Strand almost "Stranding" them all, though that did not pan out as well as I'd hoped.

 I have no idea where they are headed, but I'll follow Strand anywhere. Unfortunately, as with the Mothership, separate groups might mean separate storylines, and entire episodes without Strand!

[truelovekiss]

1 hour ago, riverheightsnancy said:

I feel sorry for Hardwick then. 

I'm sure he feels sorry for himself. I don't know how he's going to act like this show doesn't suck. I don't  especially care, either.

[MoodyGirl]

27 minutes ago, truelovekiss said:

So before this episode, the only 2 characters I could stand were Nick (mainly due to Frank Dillane's surprisingly good acting) and Daniel (because I enjoyed his unapologetic grit and determination to survive with his daughter). And this episode made me dislike both...and like MADISON. MADISON is currently my favorite character, Jesus help me. 

Yes Nick had been my favorite because he seemed to get it early on...how to survive in this world...so how did he get so crazy and backward in one episode. Same with Daniel, he was also a smart survivor that turned crazy...hallucinating...maybe killing himself. As much as I don't care for Madison, her locking Celia in with the walkers was awesome. 

[placate]

2 hours ago, Boofish said:

I'm really trying to like this show but I will need at least one person to care about whether they live or die. 

I'm still rooting for the black dog eating corpses last episode. Still mourning the white one that was used to feed the zombies.  I might actually have feelings about this show if they kill off black dog.  The rest of the cast can get eaten.  They should make a new walking dead spin-off, it's just a pack of dogs and their struggles during the zombie apocalypse. 

[mightysparrow]

I can't believe Celia was able to buffalo so many people.  Thomas wasn't her son.  She's the fucking housekeeper; the hired help.  Instead of filling the basement with walkers, she should have been making sure everyone had clean towels.  Strand showed amazing self-control in his moment of grief for not slapping that crazy bitch into another timezone.  Why poor Strand has to get saddled with these crazy women is beyond me.  Now he's stuck with Ofelia, Alicia AND Maddie.  I think Strand will find out that it is possible to be bored to death.

[rab01]

We really are following the villains on this show.  They all could have just left with Strand and instead they had to murder Celia and burn down the house. I mean, yes, she was nuts but who cares? just walk away next time

[mmecorday]

Quote

They should make a new walking dead spin-off, it's just a pack of dogs and their struggles during the zombie apocalypse. 

I would watch that! The one-eyed dog who shows up at the door of the funeral home in TWD could be the leader.

[RedheadZombie]

56 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

I can't believe Celia was able to buffalo so many people.  Thomas wasn't her son.  She's the fucking housekeeper; the hired help.  Instead of filling the basement with walkers, she should have been making sure everyone had clean towels.  Strand showed amazing self-control in his moment of grief for not slapping that crazy bitch into another timezone.  Why poor Strand has to get saddled with these crazy women is beyond me.  Now he's stuck with Ofelia, Alicia AND Maddie.  I think Strand will find out that it is possible to be bored to death.

It's like poor Tyreese getting saddled with the three little white girls.  But I like the mutual respect between Strand and Maddie. And Alecia cared for him too.  I like that sorta thing. 

[candall]

2 hours ago, truelovekiss said:

I'm sure he feels sorry for himself. I don't know how he's going to act like this show doesn't suck. I don't  especially care, either.

Opposite here.  So far, I've passed on Hardwick working himself into a faux FTWD lather, but this time I want to see him try.  I expect to spot little bottles of five hour energy drink littering the set.

1 hour ago, mightysparrow said:

I can't believe Celia was able to buffalo so many people.  Thomas wasn't her son.  She's the fucking housekeeper; the hired help.  Instead of filling the basement with walkers, she should have been making sure everyone had clean towels.

ROTFL

Edited May 23, 2016 by candall
site not cooperating with me tonight

[candall]

1 hour ago, mmecorday said:

I would watch that! The one-eyed dog who shows up at the door of the funeral home in TWD could be the leader.

I liked that dog and wanted him to stick around in the story.  He was a playa.

Edited May 23, 2016 by candall
See?

[catrox14]

OHHHH sure. A bunch of Southern Californians manage to survive ALL the firestorms that destroy SoCal yearly, a zombie sharknado (shhh IT TOTALLY HAPPENED. You will NOT take that from me), a strafing run by the gov't, the worst cabin crew EVER, only to be burned out of a place of refuge by arson.  As a SoCal resident this amuses me greatly. 

This episode should have ended with Travis leaving with Chris and Carrie!Nick standing there...looking confused.

Why do I watch this stupid show?

[LocimusPrime]

Good lord I'm trying to like this show, but they make it so difficult to. Ok I have some questions and comments. 

• How did the other buildings catch on fire so quickly?  Wasn't the wine warehouse a seperate building?  Also Daniel poured the gasoline directly onto the brick floor, the walls would take a while to catch on fire - if at all. The accelerant would most likely just burn up since it was poured on a noncombustible surface. Think about pouring some gasoline on the highway, it would just burn out after awhile 
• How did Celia command do much power? She was the freaking maid/nanny. 
• Chris - I want to punch his punk face every time I see it. What is wrong with him? It makes no sense. Nick- what's wrong with him as well. He doesn't want to stick around to protect his mother and sister? Comeon, that's terrible 
• Why leave if Celia is dead, strand should just assume control. 
• Why didn't Travis gave shoes on? And what was his plan after finding Chris?
• Everywhere this group goes, they make it worse for the people already there. The family on the island and this group in Mexico. 
• Why is Nick having a hard time realizing that the zombies are dead/ infected.

Ricks group would tear these guys apart  

[Irritable]

The fact that Mr. Green and I both fell hard asleep about halfway through the season finale tells me everything I need to know about this terrible show.  We are done and won't be looking back, but I'm very sorry that this opportunity to tell the beginning of the story in an interesting way was completely wasted.  A good idea was put into the wrong hands, and the viewers paid the price by losing so many hours of their lives hoping it would get better.

[Lii]

Who the hell goes out traipsing around the fields in a hacienda in Mexico in just their socks? It's not like he couldn't take thirty seconds to put shoes on, seriously. 

Alicia looked super pissed that she was going to possibly be without power for her curling iron for awhile.

I have no idea what Maddie felt about anything that happened. As usual.

Did Celia even die in the walker cage? I didn't see her there when Daniel went to start the fire. You'd think they'd have showed her.

Literally zero people on this show fear the walking dead AT ALL. What terrible garbage. I skipped a few episodes this season, but my husband is still watching because why not, and he says he plans to continue watching in the fall, so, I assume I'll absorb more of it by association. Not looking forward to it.

[placate]

2 hours ago, candall said:

I liked that dog and wanted him to stick around in the story.  He was a playa.

See this is what I'm talking about.  The dogs that they eat on TWD are part of this pack with one eyed wonder leading it up.  There's a narrator, I'd like Morgan Freeman and it's basically Meerkat Manor 2.0 with dogs and zombies.

[spiderpig]

Once again these characters make Lucy and Ricky Ricardo look like MIT professors. Keeping my fingers crossed for Preacher.

[Muffyn]

They are turning into CDB 2.  Every place they go, they destroy. 

Okay, Daniel goes off the deep end, hearing voices and seeing his dead wife.  One of the people who seemed to best be adapting completely loses it and burns himself along with many an "infected." Way to create crispy critters!

Nick has decided he  would rather stay covered in blood and hang with the Zs.  Given the often comatose nature of his family, he may have made the more interesting choice.   

Chris has decided nobody loves him, everybody hates him but instead of eating worms he roams away to end up in random houses and threaten children.   Travis finally has an epiphany that maybe his son is really hurting.  Hmm.   His mom is dead and the world is crumbling around him.  Yeah, he may need a little break. 

At least for once we did see some of the action rather than just hearing about it. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

35 minutes ago, Muffyn said:

Chris has decided nobody loves him, everybody hates him but instead of eating worms he roams away to end up in random houses and threaten children.

So, 'Everybody Hates Chris' -- it's already been done.  

And Chris definitely needs a timeout.  It made zero sense that Chris decides to hold a child hostage -- why ?

For the all the drastic changes in character behavior, it's like there's a missing episode between the last one and this one.