S04.E21: Monument Point

[Genki]

18 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Yeah, I think that's the plan - to have all of his followers reproduce and live underground until it's safe to go back up again.

Essentially his plan is to become the leader of a bunch of in-bred mole people.

[dtissagirl]

6 hours ago, bijoux said:

I have issues with Donna's scenes with Lance, but this was straight out great.

During the live feed, I didn't pay attention to anything Donna way saying to Quentin because I was mesmerized by Charlotte Ross' perfect hair.

[popgoesculture]

Quote

 And Thea's for that matter? This season she got lied to, drugged, kidnapped and watched her boyfriend die. Thanks, writers.

Which is exactly her same storyline from season 3! And more or less season 2... except mother instead of boyfriend. Sigh.

[tarotx]

A lot of season 4 has been repeated beats from season 3. In many ways, season 4 has been a "We liked the beats of season 3 but not the way they were told so let's retread". And yes Thea isn't her own person yet. Everything is shaped by the adults in her life. It's time for her to be an adult. It's time for her to graduate and start being the person she decides she will be...

Edited May 12, 2016 by tarotx

[Primetimer]

Team Arrow tries to stop billions of deaths. And they're pretty much successful!

View the full article

[bijoux]

Is Darhk radiationproof? Because his plan was obviously to stay under the town hall to juice up once the world went boom. That's not under the dome.

[AyChihuahua]

1 hour ago, bijoux said:

Is Darhk radiationproof? Because his plan was obviously to stay under the town hall to juice up once the world went boom. That's not under the dome.

I'm guessing yes. Reiter was shot a billion times and grenaded while he was less powered up, and he just rubbed dirt on it and walked it off.

Edited May 12, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[Delphi]

Randomly,  I kind of think Anarky is hot,  possibly even hotter with the scars.   I'm a very strange dude. 

Also,  what's with all these recurring guest stars on in the Flarrow universe going off to cabins to chop firewood,  in May.   Is there a need for firewood in late Spring?

Edited May 12, 2016 by Delphi

[Chaser]

You are not that strange. I appreciate a good facial highlight.

Lol. I live in Colorado. Firewood in spring is pretty normal. 

[Delphi]

4 minutes ago, Delphi said:

 

Edited May 12, 2016 by Delphi
ugh posting issues, please delete

[KirkB]

Ideally, wouldn't you want to cut your firewood during the more temperate months, rather than wait until you're knee deep in snow and actually NEED it?

[xaxat]

If Darhk is so committed to creating the perfect society, he needs to start by firing the urban planner he used for that project.

I mean, a low density, car centric suburban layout for a community that apparently has no cars? They would have been much better off with higher density, perhaps townhouses, with community green spaces and a robust pedestrian friendly bicycle/small electric vehicle infrastructure. . . 

Other than that, I really enjoyed the episode.

[Password]

For some reason the first time I watchd the episode it felt draggy until minute 30. Then it was all BOOM BOOM BOOM.

But on rewatch it was intense from the beginning. 

My prayers were answered!!! For about 5 minutes it was Felicity and Friends and it was GLORIOUS. 

I do feel a real sense of upping the stakes in a way I haven't  felt since the Glades fell. It's awesome that the town was nuked but it's  only episode 21 (forgive me). Now I get to see some reaction to it from Felicity,  Oliver and Diggle. Winning. 

Poor Felicity.  This has been a quite horrible few months for her. 

Yes to Oliver's progress with advice to Diggle and understanding that keeping his Star City and Central City lives separate being the root of his breakup (at first I thought it was season 3 stupidity but on rewatch it seemed different). 

Papa Smoak is delightful. I'm very curious to see what they end up doing with him and 

Spoiler

potentially Cooper

this year. 

My only snipes have to do with Donna and Quentin's whatever,  and Thea's story. I kept being irritated when they took me from the A story with OTA. Don't care about Alex,  but thought Lonnie calling her mommy was hilarious.  The dreaded flashbacks aaaaaah! 

Alright show, where's the final 2 installments? 

Why won't they let me forget Laurel? I was doing so well. 

[AyChihuahua]

So, the idea of nuking the Earth to start a new society is totally and completely stupid. A virus would make SO MUCH MORE sense, because the Earth would be all pretty and nice afterwards, without all those pesky humans mucking it up. Is there any chance that getting the power that would come from killing billions would allow DD to become sufficiently godlike that he could basically heal the Earth afterwards? So they would only be mole people for a couple days?

It's a reach, I know. But seriously, nuking everything when you want to keep your group going is just totally nonsensical. 

Oh, also, Brick (and Murmur) would be such terrible commune members. I'm guessing DD plans to off them both as soon as he's done with them, rather than giving them one of those tidy suburban houses.

[tarotx]

As we know, a virus is what Ra's use and was used in the comic story these episodes seem modeled after. It would be hard to repeat that this season with how they saved the city last season. Though perhaps this year's virus wouldn't have a known cure already. Damien must like Nukes. In 1975, he was trying to buy a nuke from Vandal Savage. 

Damien can heal himself and take life from afar so giving life from afar doesn't seem Farfetched at all. 

[calliope1975]

8 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

The bigger issue is that 'resetting the world' via nuclear destruction is a terrible idea -- it would be hundreds if not thousands of years before they could return to the surface, and once they got to the the surface it would most likely be uninhabitable, still highly radioactive, there'd be no animals to hunt or usable land to plant in and all the water would still be contaminated.  But other than all that, great plan.

So what you're saying is to expect a spin-off like The 100 when their corn air runs out? ;D

[Delphi]

Just now, calliope1975 said:

So what you're saying is to expect a spin-off like The 100 when their corn air runs out? ;D

We better put Curtis and Paul in hiding. 

[kismet]

9 hours ago, Genki said:

I'll give POTUS a pass on calling Felicity an IT girl, because I assume Lyla didn't give away their secret identities just their function in TA.

I also noticed that Noah imply that he has been keeping watch on Felicity's Hacking.This could be how he recognised "Overwatch" as her handy-work. I now wonder about his opinion on Cooper.

Donna over-sharing about Felicity's conception, delightfully awkward. Donna as QL's "moral compass"????? Confusing.

I loved Oliver's absolute faith in Felicity, and the caper was a nice call back to S1, but a little more Olicity please!

I feel bad for Felicity, I hope people at PT get behind her to say she was a great boss, but I can definitely do without PT being mentioned again. Also she is going to carry that guilt of 10,000 people around for a long time. It weird because I could have bought Felicity's emotions in the Limo, being over Dark making her cause so many death, rather than just Laurel's, but alas that scene has passed.

I wonder if they thought they were going to have that limo scene later in the season after the bombing. But then they reshuffled LL's death and decided it wasn't worth refilming the scene. I really think they either planned for the break-up to have more animosity. FS still paralyzed or the bombing to have occurred. Something more tragic was what I think inspired FS's emotions & direction in the limo. There was too much tonal change for it to line up to the events as they actually played out, something had been changed after the fact.

I agree, the IT girl didn't bother me because Lyla is protecting identities.

[tv echo]

When I first heard Lyla say that "IT girl" line, I thought maybe it was a meta reference to WBTV President Peter Roth's comment upon first seeing EBR as Felicity in 1x03.

[fromfeartohope]

12 hours ago, kismet said:

Don't know where they are going with FS & PapaSmoak, but I love their chemistry & interaction. I honestly am getting Chuck Dad vibes from him (before they made him a regular), where he makes up with his kids but still abandons them again - Chuck's Dad did it for the greater good, I have a feeling PapaSmoak will do it because he can't resist the pull of the Hacking.

 

I finally watched, and I'm loving it. I don't need to know where they are going with the relationship, because she and Donna held it down without him. But what's bugging me, is I don't know if he's good or bad. I mean he's sooooo close to grey, I can't figure it out. Which also means that I can't figure out if he's playing her or not.

Spoiler

We've been told that another person from her past will/may pop back up, and I think this is too much of a coinsadince for old Pops not to have anything to do with it.

Spoiler

But if that is the case.....WHY would he do that if he's not looking to profit some kind of way.

"..............you can trust me THIS time" doesn't sit will with me. But then he admits that he's a terrible father, but he still cares if she lives. And then, "on some level I told myself that I just didn't know how to be a father". I just can't figure it out, and I hate it, lol. Yes, I'm Felicity when it comes to this, I hate mysteries and I think they need to be solved especially when it comes to grey tv characters.

I just hope this doesn't hurt Felicity too much if it turns out bad. And I hope that this leads her straight into Olivers already waiting arms. But that's only after he apologizes to her first.

So I guess well played writers.

[kismet]

1 minute ago, fromfeartohope said:

I finally watched, and I'm loving it. I don't need to know where they are going with the relationship, because she and Donna held it down without him. But what's bugging me, is I don't know if he's good or bad. I mean he's sooooo close to grey, I can't figure it out. Which also means that I can't figure out if he's playing her or not.

  Reveal hidden contents

We've been told that another person from her past will/may pop back up, and I think this is too much of a coinsadince for old Pops not to have anything to do with it.

  Reveal hidden contents

But if that is the case.....WHY would he do that if he's not looking to profit some kind of way.

"..............you can trust me THIS time" doesn't sit will with me. But then he admits that he's a terrible father, but he still cares if she lives. And then, "on some level I told myself that I just didn't know how to be a father". I just can't figure it out, and I hate it, lol. Yes, I'm Felicity when it comes to this, I hate mysteries and I think they need to be solved especially when it comes to grey tv characters.

I just hope this doesn't hurt Felicity too much if it turns out bad. And I hope that this leads her straight into Olivers already waiting arms. But that's only after he apologizes to her first.

So I guess well played writers.

They are walking the line perfectly with PapaSmoak. I like him this shade of grey. My fear is they are succeeding and will overplay their hand and we get MM v2. MM was played perfectly for the first 2.5 seasons, until all the sudden he had to be redeemed.

[wonderwall]

2 minutes ago, fromfeartohope said:

I just hope this doesn't hurt Felicity too much if it turns out bad. And I hope that this leads her straight into Olivers already waiting arms. But that's only after he apologizes to her first.

I actually hope it DOES hurt Felicity. Because no normal person wouldn't not be affected by making such a decision. And Felicity being the empathetic and emotional person she is, it would be weird if we didn't see her have a strong reaction to this.

[way2interested]

7 minutes ago, kismet said:

I wonder if they thought they were going to have that limo scene later in the season after the bombing. But then they reshuffled LL's death and decided it wasn't worth refilming the scene. I really think they either planned for the break-up to have more animosity. FS still paralyzed or the bombing to have occurred. Something more tragic was what I think inspired FS's emotions & direction in the limo. There was too much tonal change for it to line up to the events as they actually played out, something had been changed after the fact.

I think they just wrote the limo scene with the mind space of 414 and 415, since they filmed that during 414, and, to me, the Felicity in the flash forward in 410 matched the Felicity at the end of 415. The writers just weren't quite prepared for what to do with Felicity's character from 415 on (as evidenced by 417 and her different attitude in 419 compared to the final scene), so it felt slightly disconnected by the time we got to it present day. Otherwise, I think that everything still lined up the way that they wanted it to. 

12 minutes ago, tv echo said:

When I first heard Lyla say that "IT girl" line, I thought maybe it was a meta reference to WBTV President Peter Roth's comment upon first seeing EBR as Felicity in 1x03.

Ha, I immediately thought of that too for some reason! But I just think that they were just writing a quotable quote, got to make those quotes of the week and try to make it onto Entertainment Weekly again, you know! 

[AyChihuahua]

9 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I actually hope it DOES hurt Felicity. Because no normal person wouldn't not be affected by making such a decision. And Felicity being the empathetic and emotional person she is, it would be weird if we didn't see her have a strong reaction to this.

I think the first poster meant the dad thing, not the nuke thing (I'm guessing you meant the nuke thing, since the dad thing didn't so much involve a decision by Felicity).

I'd be cool with him caring about her but also wanting to continue hacking and stealing. That's sufficiently far removed from Malcolm's mass murdering whilst claiming to care/be a "misunderstood hero" that I can live with it. If my father was a thief, I could still love him and even want some kind of distant relationship with him...but if my father was a mass murderer who drugged me into killing a friend, nah, son...we're done.

[KirkB]

3 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

So, the idea of nuking the Earth to start a new society is totally and completely stupid. A virus would make SO MUCH MORE sense, because the Earth would be all pretty and nice afterwards, without all those pesky humans mucking it up. Is there any chance that getting the power that would come from killing billions would allow DD to become sufficiently godlike that he could basically heal the Earth afterwards? So they would only be mole people for a couple days?

I hadn't thought about it that way, but if you're right it would make more sense. Getting rid of all the other humans so you can repopulate with your chosen is one I can understand, but nuking the Earth so it's uninhabitable is ludicrous unless you have some way around it. If Dark has either the tech or the mojo to get rid of all the radiation and then restock the plants and stuff then okay, I can see it. But unless I missed it I don't recall anyone in the show saying this. Still, it is a very good headcanon so I am going to run with your idea until I am told otherwise. Thank you.  :)

Edited May 12, 2016 by KirkB

[ComicFan777]

I think Papa Smoak cares about Felicity to some degree, but I think he will probably take off with that tech thing that they stole from PT after they save the world.

[Ceylon5]

Felicity getting fired really tainted this episode for me.  When Oliver, Ray and their predecessors were CEO, they didn't seem to have the board breathing down their necks the whole time - even though they neglected the company (and, in the case of Isabel, deliberately sabotaged it) in a way that Felicity never did.  On her watch, the company has created a battery technology that should make it one of the richest companies in the world.  The board should have been thrilled with Felicity, without whose leadership that would never have happened.  I'm trying to understand why the show somewhat improbably made Felicity CEO in the first place if they were just going to fire her less than a year later, in the most random and unpleasant way, where the first she hears about it is when she's suddenly being escorted out the building.  That left a bad taste in my mouth.  The only thing that would salvage this would be if the entire staff of PT goes on strike until she's reinstated and the board replaced.

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, Ceylon5 said:

Felicity getting fired really tainted this episode for me.  When Oliver, Ray and their predecessors were CEO, they didn't seem to have the board breathing down their necks the whole time - even though they neglected the company (and, in the case of Isabel, deliberately sabotaged it) in a way that Felicity never did.  On her watch, the company has created a battery technology that should make it one of the richest companies in the world.  The board should have been thrilled with Felicity, without whose leadership that would never have happened.  I'm trying to understand why the show somewhat improbably made Felicity CEO in the first place if they were just going to fire her less than a year later, in the most random and unpleasant way, where the first she hears about it is when she's suddenly being escorted out the building.  That left a bad taste in my mouth.  The only thing that would salvage this would be if the entire staff of PT goes on strike until she's reinstated and the board replaced.

I think they're building up for Felicity to create her own company (Smoak Tech) and will be joined by Curtis next season. She's still majority shareholder for PT, which means she'll have the capital... So I'm not too concerned.

[Delphi]

It's the Defense Against the Dark Arts post of the Flarrowverse.  The position is cursed so no CEO can last longer than a year. 

[hogwash]

Smoak Tech with Curtis is the first thing I thought when she got fired. Non-compete clauses are for suckers (and shows that care about financial law)!

I really liked this episode. I hope Merlyn's comment about not giving Thea a weapon is foreshadowing...

[kismet]

FS getting fired doesn't bother me because the board has been looking to oust her since the premiere,  they just finally got a reason. 

My head canon is OQ & RP never got fired because they had FS watching their back and keeping the board happy.  FS did not have that. 

The logics and reality of how Arrow interprets business is always inaccurate to real life. But like their take on medicine and the law,  I feel I just need to let it go. But that is easier said than done some days.

Hopefully she has enough money or profits from her shares to start her own company.  I personally would like the to start a security firm because then Dig could get a job there using his military knowledge. 

[theacostov]

The reason Ray and Oliver never got fired is because they have penises. Men can get away with so much more whilst women are held to much higher standards in so many aspects of life but especially business. 

I agree with kismet that they never wanted Felicity. She was thrust upon them and then she continually did things they didn't approve of like not firing people, trying to make the biostimulant affordable and missing meetings. Her missteps overshadowed her accomplishments for them. 

I am actually glad that she got fired only for the reason that maybe she can start her own empire on her own terms. That's the hope anyway but this is Arrow so they'll probably have her have to go back for some nonsensical reason they pull out of their hat in the eleventh hour. 

[ketose]

4 hours ago, tarotx said:

As we know, a virus is what Ra's use and was used in the comic story these episodes seem modeled after. It would be hard to repeat that this season with how they saved the city last season. Though perhaps this year's virus wouldn't have a known cure already. Damien must like Nukes. In 1975, he was trying to buy a nuke from Vandal Savage. 

Damien can heal himself and take life from afar so giving life from afar doesn't seem Farfetched at all. 

If Damien set off a bunch of nukes, wouldn't Vandal Savage be out of business? Felicity could have saved everyone if she did nothing and the Time Masters would have to step in.

I kind of liked the plot line of El Rey's failed series Matador. Evil corporations fund a mad scientist who creates a life extending formula, then unleashes a virus scare so that everyone gets inoculated with a mind control serum.

[BkWurm1]

14 hours ago, bijoux said:

Felicity did it once in the past. So she probably had that algorythm ready. And the casualty count was definitely much smaller. Tens of thousands opposed to millions according to Lyla. What I found interesting is that Noah knew about Felicity having done this in the past. 

I'm of two minds.  It could be interpreted that he knew about it because he'd been keeping track of her computer talents but that conflicts with what we've been told before. I decided he just immediately understood where she was going with the GPS thing, that once she brought up the idea he was nodding along since he recognized that would work. 

12 hours ago, Genki said:

I'll give POTUS a pass on calling Felicity an IT girl, because I assume Lyla didn't give away their secret identities just their function in TA.

I also noticed that Noah imply that he has been keeping watch on Felicity's Hacking.This could be how he recognised "Overwatch" as her handy-work. I now wonder about his opinion on Cooper.

Donna over-sharing about Felicity's conception, delightfully awkward. Donna as QL's "moral compass"????? Confusing.

I loved Oliver's absolute faith in Felicity, and the caper was a nice call back to S1, but a little more Olicity please!

I feel bad for Felicity, I hope people at PT get behind her to say she was a great boss, but I can definitely do without PT being mentioned again. Also she is going to carry that guilt of 10,000 people around for a long time. It weird because I could have bought Felicity's emotions in the Limo, being over Dark making her cause so many death, rather than just Laurel's, but alas that scene has passed.

I can't give it a pass because why would Lyla tell the president some IT girl was on the job?  She wouldn't, she'd say an expert computer hacker was on it if she was giving generalizations.  Either Felicity's expertise was reduced to IT Girl (thus giving the show it's shoutout) or POTUS had her profile.  Waller knew who all of them were.  Now I can imagine her keeping all of it to herself cause knowledge is power but I'm having a harder time believing that Lyla as the head of Argus would refuse that info to POTUS should he have asked.  Maybe he didn't ask?

I can accept that she'd give out code names for all of them (including Noah as the Calculator who likely had an impressive resume) but again, if they are going just by code names and reps, why is Felicity just some IT girl??  Why is Overwatch even identified as a girl? 

I watch Madame Secretary where it's always one crisis after another so I can't help imagine how the nuke threat was playing out in that world while Team Arrow was on the task.  DC would be working the same problem but failing if they realized all their hopes rested on 4 very specific people in Star City. 

On a different subject, I enjoyed Oliver's blind faith in Felicity's abilities but LOVED in the end when John was questioning if they could trust Noah that Oliver said that he trusted Felicity's judgement and they should just let her do her job.  The faith in her skills is blind - he has not idea what tech skills were needed, but the faith in her judgement, that he absolutely knows why he can trust her.  I liked that. 

11 hours ago, mrspidey said:

Regarding the nuke. That's not how nukes explode. They don't hit the ground but explode many hundreds of feet above their target. A detonation on the ground would send most of the blast's energy into that ground where it simply gets absorbed. 

Now you could say that Felicity did this on purpose but then you'd have to ask why she didn't send the nuke into the stratossphere instead. That would have caused very minimal damage and no long-term radiation effects. 

It's how TV nukes go off, lol. 

7 hours ago, Delphi said:

Randomly,  I kind of think Anarky is hot,  possibly even hotter with the scars.   I'm a very strange dude. 

Also,  what's with all these recurring guest stars on in the Flarrow universe going off to cabins to chop firewood,  in May.   Is there a need for firewood in late Spring?

Was that the same cabin that Barry's dad was hanging out at?

2 hours ago, fromfeartohope said:

I finally watched, and I'm loving it. I don't need to know where they are going with the relationship, because she and Donna held it down without him. But what's bugging me, is I don't know if he's good or bad. I mean he's sooooo close to grey, I can't figure it out. Which also means that I can't figure out if he's playing her or not.

  Hide contents

We've been told that another person from her past will/may pop back up, and I think this is too much of a coinsadince for old Pops not to have anything to do with it.

  Hide contents

But if that is the case.....WHY would he do that if he's not looking to profit some kind of way.

"..............you can trust me THIS time" doesn't sit will with me. But then he admits that he's a terrible father, but he still cares if she lives. And then, "on some level I told myself that I just didn't know how to be a father". I just can't figure it out, and I hate it, lol. Yes, I'm Felicity when it comes to this, I hate mysteries and I think they need to be solved especially when it comes to grey tv characters.

I just hope this doesn't hurt Felicity too much if it turns out bad. And I hope that this leads her straight into Olivers already waiting arms. But that's only after he apologizes to her first.

So I guess well played writers.

I think Noah as is works great.  He's not trying to reform but he would like a relationship with his daughter.  I think he'd love if she'd partner with him and see things his way but I don't get the impression he overly cares if she does as long as she starts to let him in more.  They might try to change his motives but I don't think they need to.  He can be just a very compartmentalized dude who doesn't think she should judge him so harshly because that other stuff is just work. 

Edited May 12, 2016 by BkWurm1

[AyChihuahua]

Rewatching, and I just realized something: Anarky was just going to blow the air scrubbers, he wasn't going to blow up the dome or anything. By stopping him, Thea didn't save the people in the dome from immediate doom, she made it possible for DD to go forward with his plan. Had the scrubbers been blown, DD would have had to wait to blow up the world until he'd called in a good CO2 scrubbers guy. 

So, she's kind of a bad guy already. 

[morakot]

18 hours ago, Xenith22 said:

Sure if such an event happened in real life it would be a major deal, I mean in addition to the 10k instantly dead you have the nuclear fallout for miles causing countless more deaths illnesses and rendering the area uninhabitable for at least half a century,  the media would talk about nothing else for months and it would be talked about for years, there would be presidential speeches, there could be major political repercussions over the US/Argus building tech to hijack other countries missiles, there would be a manhunt maybe even a deploying of the national guard,  etc.

Of course, you have to remember that the show now includes a dome and people living "under the dome." According to what I have seen on TV, even if you fire the mother of all bombs near or in the same story as a dome, it only darkens a small area and is forgotten and dealt with in a few days. [end reference to unscientific show]

[fromfeartohope]

54 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm of two minds.  It could be interpreted that he knew about it because he'd been keeping track of her computer talents but that conflicts with what we've been told before. I decided he just immediately understood where she was going with the GPS thing, that once she brought up the idea he was nodding along since he recognized that would work. 

I can't give it a pass because why would Lyla tell the president some IT girl was on the job?  She wouldn't, she'd say an expert computer hacker was on it if she was giving generalizations.  Either Felicity's expertise was reduced to IT Girl (thus giving the show it's shoutout) or POTUS had her profile.  Waller knew who all of them were.  Now I can imagine her keeping all of it to herself cause knowledge is power but I'm having a harder time believing that Lyla as the head of Argus would refuse that info to POTUS should he have asked.  Maybe he didn't ask?

I can accept that she'd give out code names for all of them (including Noah as the Calculator who likely had an impressive resume) but again, if they are going just by code names and reps, why is Felicity just some IT girl??  Why is Overwatch even identified as a girl? 

I watch Madame Secretary where it's always one crisis after another so I can't help imagine how the nuke threat was playing out in that world while Team Arrow was on the task.  DC would be working the same problem but failing if they realized all their hopes rested on 4 very specific people in Star City. 

On a different subject, I enjoyed Oliver's blind faith in Felicity's abilities but LOVED in the end when John was questioning if they could trust Noah that Oliver said that he trusted Felicity's judgement and they should just let her do her job.  The faith in her skills is blind - he has not idea what tech skills were needed, but the faith in her judgement, that he absolutely knows why he can trust her.  I liked that. 

It's how TV nukes go off, lol. 

Was that the same cabin that Barry's dad was hanging out at?

I think Noah as is works great.  He's not trying to reform but he would like a relationship with his daughter.  I think he'd love if she'd partner with him and see things his way but I don't get the impression he overly cares if she does as long as she starts to let him in more.  They might try to change his motives but I don't think they need to.  He can be just a very compartmentalized dude who doesn't think she should judge him so harshly because that other stuff is just work. 

I think he's great and I would be ok if he stays as is. But if he goes in the direction of Merlin or Mora, that's when we get into the bad stuff. If he leaves Felicity alone and don't try and talk her into joining whatever plan he's cooking up, I will be perfectly fine. But if he goes in the direction of MM or MQ and he's playing her, than she would be hurt and it would be a repeat of The Bad Parent Club. And figuring out which way they will take this is what's got me anxious.  

2 hours ago, kismet said:

FS getting fired doesn't bother me because the board has been looking to oust her since the premiere,  they just finally got a reason. 

My head canon is OQ & RP never got fired because they had FS watching their back and keeping the board happy.  FS did not have that. 

The logics and reality of how Arrow interprets business is always inaccurate to real life. But like their take on medicine and the law,  I feel I just need to let it go. But that is easier said than done some days.

Hopefully she has enough money or profits from her shares to start her own company.  I personally would like the to start a security firm because then Dig could get a job there using his military knowledge. 

Can I share this head canon with you. Also 85% of the time Arrow journey to the destination is complete crap, but the destination is satisfying. It was crap how this went down, but if we get a company that's started by her or one that she puts Queen on the side of the building...I would be just fine with it. 

3 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

I think the first poster meant the dad thing, not the nuke thing (I'm guessing you meant the nuke thing, since the dad thing didn't so much involve a decision by Felicity).

I'd be cool with him caring about her but also wanting to continue hacking and stealing. That's sufficiently far removed from Malcolm's mass murdering whilst claiming to care/be a "misunderstood hero" that I can live with it. If my father was a thief, I could still love him and even want some kind of distant relationship with him...but if my father was a mass murderer who drugged me into killing a friend, nah, son...we're done.

This is exactly what I meant, but I agree with this whole post

[looptab]

8 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I decided he just immediately understood where she was going with the GPS thing, that once she brought up the idea he was nodding along since he recognized that would work. 

Yeah, that's how I interpreted it, rather than  him following her previous "jobs". Though I wouldn't mind if it turns out that way. 

Edited May 13, 2016 by looptab

[SmallScreenDiva]

On 5/12/2016 at 2:15 AM, BkWurm1 said:

Who called Felicity still living in the loft on this board?  We have hat eating to do. 

But no hat-eating necessary, LOL! Judging from the Twitter reaction, it confused a lot of folks.

So much to love about this episode. All the OTA stuff, including the PT caper, with special participation by Noah Kuttler. And I totally giggled at the end when Quentin turned out to be the getaway driver. 

A lot of you have already mentioned the fights. I particularly love the stairwell sequence. Oliver was quick, brutal and efficient. He even looked more comfortable in his suit in his fight with Brick. He looked agile, mobile and hostile :P ("Remember the Titans" is on TV). Although the flips had me rolling my eyes just a tiny bit. Channeling Roy there, Oliver?

Bye, bye Palmer Technologies, hello Smoak Technologies? I do hope this is the beginning of Felicity starting her own company. Where she's the boss and she answers to no one. That's really the only way she can juggle Team Arrow work and a "real" job. I hope she has a healthy severance package, though.

I'm loving Tom Amandes and he and Emily have a nice rapport going so I want to see him again in Season 5.

Spoiler

But Noah is not in the finale, right? I wonder what happens that takes him out of the picture. I can't imagine him leaving if the fate of the world still hangs in the balance.

The scenes with Donna and Quentin were odd because of the arguments they were making, but on its most basic level it seems Donna is against all lying, especially one that involves essentially disavowing your daughter. I think she also understood that even if Quentin agrees to it now, it would be something that would eat at him later. Also, it was yet another illustration of one of the show's theme this season: Lying is (generally) a bad idea. 

Edited May 13, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva
Put some spoilerish stuff under tag

[Adira]

On 5/12/2016 at 8:48 AM, apinknightmare said:

I'm 99% sure the magical juju keeps him forever young. He was in the League with Ra's, but I don't remember how old he was. Hundreds of years, maybe?

Actually, pretty sure it's the water from the Lazarus Pit that he stole that's keeping him young.  Also, Ra's al Ghul, was only about ~160 when he died, so I don't think Damien is much older than that since they were part of the League of Assassins together before Ra's became Ra's al Ghul.

[apinknightmare]

23 minutes ago, Adira said:

Actually, pretty sure it's the water from the Lazarus Pit that he stole that's keeping him young.  

Maybe, although the writers seem to have forgotten about this since everyone on the show is operating as if Nyssa destroyed the only Lazarus Pit there was - including Oliver, who knows that Darhk stole that water. If magic can make him all-powerful and unstoppable, I also figure it can keep him from aging, since the LP water he stole hasn't been brought up again, apart from that weird effect Thea had on him that was never followed up on. I figured that could be attributed to him using it at one point, and moving on to something else. 

Edited May 13, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Adira]

56 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Maybe, although the writers seem to have forgotten about this since everyone on the show is operating as if Nyssa destroyed the only Lazarus Pit there was - including Oliver, who knows that Darhk stole that water. If magic can make him all-powerful and unstoppable, I also figure it can keep him from aging, since the LP water he stole hasn't been brought up again, apart from that weird effect Thea had on him that was never followed up on. I figured that could be attributed to him using it at one point, and moving on to something else. 

I don't know about that.  We saw him in LoT in 1975, well before the magic totem was found and presumably before Darhk got his hands on it.  Since he looked the same age in 1975 as he does now, it's can't be to totem keeping him young.

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, Adira said:

I don't know about that.  We saw him in LoT in 1975, well before the magic totem was found and presumably before Darhk got his hands on it.  Since he looked the same age in 1975 as he does now, it's can't be to totem keeping him young.

Could be we've got a twist coming and there's a reason it hasn't been brought up, but Ra's told Oliver that Darhk had Pit water. Oliver has situational memory issues, but it seems to me that he'd tell people, "Hey, Darhk has Pit water so, even if we manage to kill him he might not stay dead, and btw we could use that for Laurel." 

Like I wrote above, I figured he could've used the Pit at some point, and then moved onto some magical mess to keep him young. 

Edited May 13, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Delphi]

I think it is,  or was originally intended,  for it to be the waters from the Lazarus Pit keeping Darhk young, but then they killed Laurel.   They don't want Laurel back.   But mentioning the pit water would lead to the,  why don't we use it on Laurel question. And rather then find a reason why it wouldn't work they are just avoiding the whole conversation of his very long lived live.  

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, Delphi said:

I think it is,  or was originally intended,  for it to be the waters from the Lazarus Pit keeping Darhk young, but then they killed Laurel.   They don't want Laurel back.   But mentioning the pit water would lead to the,  why don't we use it on Laurel question. And rather then find a reason why it wouldn't work they are just avoiding the whole conversation of his very long lived live.  

I agree. I think it was initially intended to be more than it was when Ra's first mentioned it last year, but then this death came into the fold and they needed to eliminate the LP option, so they just dropped it. I'd like it if they brought it up in-show to clarify, but I doubt they will at this point, unless it's a plot swerve or something, and after he gets killed in the finale (which is what I'm assuming will happen) we'll find out that he isn't really dead or something. No thanks to that, though.

Edited May 13, 2016 by apinknightmare

[bijoux]

Wrong thread. Sorry.

Edited May 13, 2016 by bijoux

[blackwing]

I'm really confused by exactly why "Monument Point" was being targeted.  For a while I thought it was some kind of landmark in Star City.  Isn't that why Ruve and her team evacuated the mayor's office and headed underground for Pleasantville.  But then there was a map onscreen, and it appears that "Monument Point" is in Virginia, somewhere southeast of Washington DC.  Does this mean that Star City is in Virginia, or are Star City and Monument Point completely separate cities?

Also, why did Felicity divert the nuke to Havensbrook?  Why didn't she divert it to the ocean?  On the map it looked like she diverted it from Monument Point to a town that was 30 miles west.  Wouldn't the fallout from the nuclear radiation still blow over this all-important Monument Point?

[AyChihuahua]

Monument Point was one of hundreds of cities targeted by, basically, every launchable nuke in the world. That just happened to be the one that slipped through.

She had seconds to input something (you can watch the tracked missile on the episode) and they were too far from the ocean. Additionally, it was implied that she could only redirect the GPS coordinates 20 miles, aka not all the way to the ocean.

[apinknightmare]

10 minutes ago, blackwing said:

But then there was a map onscreen, and it appears that "Monument Point" is in Virginia, somewhere southeast of Washington DC.  Does this mean that Star City is in Virginia, or are Star City and Monument Point completely separate cities?

Star City is on the west coast, like DC's version of Seattle. Monument Point looks like it's in VA. 

[Delphi]

Also as we've discussed further back in the thread, a nuke directly into water could be far more devastating for the earth in terms of long range consequences.   

Good luck finding anywhere rural twenty miles from Northern Virginia.