S04.E21: Monument Point

[SleepDeprived]

This Felicity and Friends show is so awesome. I was on the edge of my seat! Last week and then this week's episodes have been so great! I love it. Great fight scenes with actual fighting and no unnecessary posing. Oliver was actually Green Arrow-ing and not "supervising" on a rooftop or whatever.

This episode is an automatic win because OTA CAPER at PT! With special participation of Noah Kuttler and Quentin Lance. Fantastic! Also, POTUS' implied approval of Team GA and sending in Lyla, badass sniping Director extraordinaire, and her people at A.R.G.U.S. was the best. But, damn, at the show actually nuking one town. Poor people of Havenstown. That's going to hit Felicity hard (no pun intended) and might be a plot point for S5. I'm glad Lyla tried to make Felicity feel better, though.

Thea and Anarky is a pretty good pairing. I like their dynamic. Poor dumb Alex, though. Other than that, I didn't really care for the "Under the Dome" part of this episode. I, also, have no idea what the Quentin/Donna fight was about. It was just weird and also superfluous to the episode. Much like the flashbacks.

I really, really love that Noah Kuttler is an actual gray character who is not purely evil but is only actually evil, occasionally. Unlike Malcolm, who I'm tired of. Noah can come back anytime.

51 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Why did they have to be nukes... Why couldn't they have been something less extreme like regular non-nuclear missiles or something...

Because, Rubicon was a Waller Contingency Special. Remember Waller's Plan A was to nuke Starling City back during Deathstroke's seige in S2, too? Waller/Nukes = OTP

[apinknightmare]

Just now, SleepDeprived said:

Because, Rubicon was a Waller Contingency Special. Remember Waller's Plan A was to nuke Starling City back during Deathstroke's seige in S2, too? Waller/Nukes = OTP

I think Waller was using drones in S2.

[Angel12d]

5 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

People are asking why Team Arrow couldn't have called Barry... IDK He was probably too busy crying to help... 

I'm tired of the double standards where Felicity is whiney for crying (Seriously, I've already seen comments about "here come the waterworks" in regards to Felicity being unable to save 10k+ people) but Barry is applauded for being sensitive... 

But Barry's a special snowflake who can run really fast! He's allowed to cry.

Also, he has a dick.

(I get so frustrated when people say they should just call Barry for help. What's the point if they just call him for help all the time? That would be making it The Flash show instead of Arrow. Ugh logic.)

[Xenith22]

52 minutes ago, benteen said:

AV Club did bring up a good point about the nuke.  If you use it, then you have to treat it as a huge deal afterwards.  With acknowledgement on the other Arrowverse shows.

 

Quote

2. And speaking of consequences, kudos to Arrow for genuinely upping the stakes/death count for this season's finale - and for not holding those stakes back for the season finale. I'm interested to see where the show goes with this.

 

Meh.  A small town we never heard of, with not a single character we ever met was nuked on the other side of the country.   Sure if such an event happened in real life it would be a major deal, I mean in addition to the 10k instantly dead you have the nuclear fallout for miles causing countless more deaths illnesses and rendering the area uninhabitable for at least half a century,  the media would talk about nothing else for months and it would be talked about for years, there would be presidential speeches, there could be major political repercussions over the US/Argus building tech to hijack other countries missiles, there would be a manhunt maybe even a deploying of the national guard,  etc.   But none of that is really relevant to Arrow or the Flash.

At most I think we are looking at Felicity having major guilt issues over the deaths of the people in that town.  (Which I'm not even sure how far down that path they will go). If she still owned Palmertech I could see her maybe trying to divert resources to finding ways to deal with the fallout or tech to help survivors.   Given the whole radiation thing though I can't see her moving there to help as there is not much she could really do in person though as it's not like she has actual medical training/knowledge.   Other than that though Oliver is going to kill Darkh nullifying any kind of extended manhunt, which I guess could/should potentially make Green Arrow a major national figure/hero?  Finally in the future we will probably have a villain or two appear who were mutated/gained powers by the explosion or else lost loved ones because of it because that sort of thing happens a lot in comicbook universes and of course it would serve as an opportunity to revisit Felicity's (and probably Oliver's because issues) guilt over the matter at a later date.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Xenith22

[bijoux]

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I think Waller was using drones in S2.

She was. It was always her go-to tactic. In SC under attack, during the, I think, Markovia business with the Suicide Squad. I always thought she lacked subtletly. Not so much now that I know she had nukes at her disposal.

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, Xenith22 said:

At most I think we are looking at Felicity having major guilt issues over the deaths of the people in that town.  (Which I'm not even sure how far down that path they will go).

I agree. Since the whole point of a nuke hitting was so that all those dead souls would power up Damien's Darhk magic by a frillion, I don't thing we're going to see Felicity have HUGE guilt issues that can't be solved by a nice chat with Oliver. I'll be pleasantly surprised if it goes beyond that, though. 

Edited May 12, 2016 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

8 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I agree. Since the whole point of a nuke hitting was so that all those dead souls would power up Damien's Darhk magic by a frillion, I don't thing we're going to see Felicity have HUGE guilt issues that can't be solved by a nice chat with Oliver. I'll be pleasantly surprised if it goes beyond that, though. 

I don't think Damien's magic is going to be affected at all

[bijoux]

I think it still counts since he put the missile in motion. The last scene definitely indicated that it worked.

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, wonderwall said:

I don't think Damien's magic is going to be affected at all

It was affected- we saw it at the end when Diggle and Oliver found his nexus chamber in Star City. 

[wonderwall]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

It was affected- we saw it at the end when Diggle and Oliver found his nexus chamber in Star City. 

Then WTF is Guggenheim talking about

ETA: Not swearing at you. Guggenheim is just... Ugh sometimes.

Edited May 12, 2016 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, bijoux said:

I think it still counts since he put the missile in motion. The last scene definitely indicated that it worked.

Yeah, he set off the nuke- Felicity just redirected it. 

[BkWurm1]

57 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I wouldn't read too much into it. She quit her job to leave town at the end of S3 - she stayed in Ivy Town after Ray died and she took over the company. The pesky job never tied her down to begin with, so I don't think not having it really dictates what she's going to do next. 

It would affect a scenario where she leaves but nobody knows it's not by her choice. Or even if she wanted to just vanish, then she has to not be tied to Star City. 

32 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

But Barry's a special snowflake who can run really fast! He's allowed to cry.

Also, he has a dick.

(I get so frustrated when people say they should just call Barry for help. What's the point if they just call him for help all the time? That would be making it The Flash show instead of Arrow. Ugh logic.)

I'm not sure what Barry could have done in this scenario that TA couldn't do.  It seemed more about hacking than running.  He could have helped out with Ghosts but that's kind of it. 

I do wish the shows would tell us how they synch up.  My best guess says that Laurel had her funeral in The Flash's universe (since Barry JUST got his powers back).  So that would mean Arrow would be ahead of Flash by at least a week (since last week and this week are only a day apart)

[bijoux]

I guess they forgot Malcolm actually got the loft. No way do I see Felicity staying in his place knowingly and without Oliver.

[BkWurm1]

Who called Felicity still living in the loft on this board?  We have hat eating to do. 

[bijoux]

I have issues with Donna's scenes with Lance, but this was straight out great.

Now, if someone finds a gif of the scene in which Felicity's head pops out of the van, be a pal and share it here.

[Chaser]

The break in was my favorite part. Hands down. It was old school, classic Arrow. Loved it.

For the most part I enjoyed the episode. I could have done without the Donna/Lance scenes. I just didn't get the logic and it felt so out of place in an episode with very important happenings. I continue to ignore the flashbacks. I got bored with the Thea/Malcolm so I started fast forwarding the dome scenes. Based on the response to Thea and Anarky, it looks like I need to rewatch.

EBR nailed the scene with the nuke. 

Edited May 12, 2016 by Chaser

[looptab]

1 hour ago, wonderwall said:

Then WTF is Guggenheim talking about

ETA: Not swearing at you. Guggenheim is just... Ugh sometimes.

I'm missing what's wrong with what Guggenheim said.. He clarified how the death thing works for DD's powers.

I loved the episode. Fun, exciting, and holy crap they actually nuked a city! I didn't think they were going to go there, I was impressed. Looking forward to the effects of that on Felicity.

I really liked Noah's scenes, Lyla! The stunt with Diggle on that staircase with the Ghosts. Plus, the caper! I was happy-dancing inside when they first showed Oliver with his cap and during that whole scene. I also liked Thea/Anarky - go and be devious together, you two!

Not really fond of the Donna/Lance scenes - I guess her point was that she didn't like him disavowing Laurel and what she did, but they could have made that a bit more clear - or cut it out completely. Who cares? :D

Oliver, are you really saying something sensible and giving sound advice to the people in your life? Look at you, all grown up! 

[AudienceofOne]

Three things:

1. They actually nuked the town. That was awesome. I know this show doesn't shy away from consequences but that was a really brave decision

2. Where was Curtis and why didn't they just get him to get the thingymebob?

3. Was that really Alex's entire role in the text? That's it? And Thea's for that matter? This season she got lied to, drugged, kidnapped and watched her boyfriend die. Thanks, writers.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

Not really fond of the Donna/Lance scenes - I guess her point was that she didn't like him disavowing Laurel and what she did, but they could have made that a bit more clear - or cut it out completely. Who cares? :D

That was how the scene was interpreted elsewhere in Laurel friendly territory, which surprised me since I was expecting a lot of complaints since I personally thought Donna wasn't making a lot of sense. 

I did like that she just flat out owned that yes, she's going to snoop, lol. 

[AudienceofOne]

1 hour ago, wonderwall said:

That idol has a pretty nuanced conception of causality and responsibility #justsaying

[kismet]

Unfiltered opinion before I read the posts - I LOVED that episode! If this is part of their retooling of the show, please Arrow writers carry on.

The action scenes were great. Every character had a purpose or plot. So much espionage and undercover stuff with PT. It felt like when they infiltrated MG in s1 with a little less charm, but still kept the intensity.

The show was so engaging that I actually watched the flashbacks, I just couldn't downshift my mind. Turns out Reiter is not the dude with the bad Southern Accent... who knew? Here I thought we were trying to run from Zombie Hillbilly. I knew about the other dude, but I thought his name was something else. Clearly, I've been paying attention. Since DD is so old, I really wish he had just been on the island in one of the last clips this episode. Because if you are going to do the same exact plot line in PD & FB, at least it might make sense to have DD be so into doing not because he failed to acquire/achieve it the first time.

Don't know where they are going with FS & PapaSmoak, but I love their chemistry & interaction. I honestly am getting Chuck Dad vibes from him (before they made him a regular), where he makes up with his kids but still abandons them again - Chuck's Dad did it for the greater good, I have a feeling PapaSmoak will do it because he can't resist the pull of the Hacking.

Lyla fits in so nicely, I'm glad she gets to come and play now. Glad Dig & OQ had that heart to heart. I could have used less with the whole obsession with lying this episode. Especially with Donna also reciting from the after-school program on lying.

I enjoyed the B plot as well with Anarky & TQ, it was enjoyable and still felt somewhat connected. I feel bad that I didn't feel bad when Alex died. I was like OK. Anarky sorta reminds me of Leo DiCaprio when he was on Growing Pains, it was really distracting. Also glad Anarky is still a little not so right in the head.

All I can say is I didn't want this episode to stop and that is a welcome change from other episodes. Also I was so excited to hear actual Russian and have to read subtitles!!! :)  I hope that means I'm getting my wish of people actually speaking Russian whenever we get "Arrow - The Bratva Chapters".

[BkWurm1]

Just now, AudienceofOne said:

That idol has a pretty nuanced conception of causality and responsibility #justsaying

Lol.  I guess since it's DD's plan and his intent behind it AND he's the only dude that is trying to wield that kind of dark magic standing by the evil idol in the nexus chamber, he gets all the credit. 

I do agree that he was probably more interested in the unlimited power he was going to gain by killing most of the planet than rebuilding the world.  The Dome was probably so his kid can have some playmates as she grows up.  Hopefully to be a fashion designer because that boxy grey uniform was all shades of wrong. 

One thing we haven't talked about is that Noah only pushed back the launch of the rest of the Nukes by 24 hours.  Hopefully he has some thoughts on that. 

[bijoux]

4 minutes ago, kismet said:

Don't know where they are going with FS & PapaSmoak, but I love their chemistry & interaction. I honestly am getting Chuck Dad vibes from him (before they made him a regular), where he makes up with his kids but still abandons them again - Chuck's Dad did it for the greater good, I have a feeling PapaSmoak will do it because he can't resist the pull of the Hacking.

 

 Also glad Anarky is still a little not so right in the head.

You are being vrey generous with Anarky. He was the best part of the dome plot, but he's out of his mind.

Just quoting the Noah bit to send off those vbes. This is what needs to happen

3 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

One thing we haven't talked about is that Noah only pushed back the launch of the rest of the Nukes by 24 hours.  Hopefully he has some thoughts on that. 

I assume that's what next week is for. By giving them one immediate threat, they had the sense of urgency in this episode. Pushing back the main threat by 24 hours gives them a ticking time bomb until the finale.

[BkWurm1]

9 minutes ago, kismet said:

I enjoyed the B plot as well with Anarky & TQ, it was enjoyable and still felt somewhat connected. I feel bad that I didn't feel bad when Alex died. I was like OK. Anarky sorta reminds me of Leo DiCaprio when he was on Growing Pains, it was really distracting. Also glad Anarky is still a little not so right in the head.

Every time he calls Thea "Mommy", I get more creeped out.  They used him well in this episode.  I actually thought they used all the bad guys well in this episode.  Malcolm is as Malcolm does but still a fan of the very winning DD, Murmur gets across a lot without saying a word and while i had no use for Brick last year, I enjoyed him this time around.  Bringing back familiar faces, hell just bringing back FACES for them to fight rather than merely the masked Ghosts made me very happy.

 

How much fun Tom Amandes (sp?) must have had making this episode?  In addition to all the lovely snark and bonding and technobabble and heist stuff, he also got to run for his life and duck from bullets and he just made that scene with Brick giving him a "sporting" chance pop.  I'd totally forgotten that quirk but it was the perfect excuse for why Noah wasn't dead yet. 

One of the best written guest spots of the show.  Makes up for "Sins of the Father."  Enjoyed his confusion over why Felicity couldn't just separate the criminal from the father.  Glad Oliver finally gets it at least.  I think the only thing that rattled Oliver was Noah's guess that Oliver was speaking from personal experience.   

Edited May 12, 2016 by BkWurm1

[bijoux]

4 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Bringing back familiar faces, hell just bringing back FACES for them to fight rather than merely the masked Ghosts made me very happy.

Ah, yes. It gives everything much more impact and makes it feel less like a video game.

[kismet]

5 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Stupid question probably but why didn't Felicity just send the nuke to the ocean? Or did it need an actual city as a location to drop? I literally have no idea about these things.

Not stupid... literally the same question I was shouting out to my laptop.... I feel like that's what they do in other shows. If DD still needed dead people for plot purposes maybe it could hit a cruise ship or perhaps aquatic deaths would count for plot purposes.

But as I think about it now, knowing nothing about computer/coding/hacking - perhaps in that short time the only algorithm she could remember to rearrange the GPS only allowed her to change the mileage a certain amount, perhaps she didn't have any other non-land coordinates available.

Either way - feel bad about those people, but understand Lyla's point as well. I think it was a bold move for the show to not have them succeed but also not fail.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Wow this episode was amazing! See what happens when they don't waste time on propping spin offs, background characters and guest stars?? I missed this.

Felicity changing the GPS coordinates was the most emotional moment of the episode, truly gut wrenching. She obviously did the right thing rationally speaking but still from an emotional POV it has to take a toll on her, I can't wait to see if they want to explore that.

The fighting sequences were good. Finally. The only thing that bugged me was Brick waiting for Oliver to hit him with his back turned during the last fighting sequence, but it's just a very minor complaint..I'm happy that they remembered Oliver is the hero of the show and knows how to defeat criminals finally!

Felicity and Noah stealing from PT with Oliver and Dig having their back was probably my favorite moment.

I find Thea and whatever is going on with her boring but since there was Anarky with his awesome creepiness I managed to enjoy those parts as well. Now if someone was so kind to kill MM I'd find a way to send a thank you gift even inside that thing they are trapped into.

[kismet]

4 hours ago, quarks said:

Bad things:

1. We've discussed before the issues with "Why don't they just call Barry?" and wow, was that on tonight, with a bonus of "Why don't they just ALERT Barry and Team Flash that NUCLEAR WEAPONS ARE ABOUT TO GO OFF EVERYWHERE?". I realize that Barry was trapped in the Speed Force this week and also has a huge army of metahumans led by Zoom on the way, so probably couldn't have been all that much help this episode, but given that Felicity just gave them some dwarf star stuff - which may have been an added reason why she was fired, given how much effort Ray went into getting it and how rare it supposedly is, and given that Barry had plenty of time to hang out in graveyards and muse about dinosaurs this week, maybe a little communication between teams would have been great. JUST SAYING, Team Arrow!

2. Of all the apartments in Star City that she could presumably choose from, naturally, Donna ends up in the loft set. And equally naturally, the temple set from the island just happens to reappear beneath Star City because of course a Nexus would create identical primitive looking temples everywhere - wait, did I say "of course?" I meant to say, Flash, I apologize for saying that deciding to trap Zoom at Jitters was one of the worst attempts to justify these reused sets yet, because this is even worse. Several more points pulled for reusing one of the Legends of Tomorrow sets for the first Anarky/Thea confrontation, not to mention the Flash promo that warned us we're all about to head back to the Arrowverse's favorite outdoor staircase.

Look, Berlanti.  Supposedly, the entire point of filming in industry-friendly Vancouver is that it offers all kinds of relatively inexpensive location shots. Next season, let's celebrate Arrow's fifth year and Flash's continued dominance and Legends of Tomorrow not getting cancelled by, I dunno, EXPLORING VANCOUVER.

That Dinosaur Story Time is CRUCIAL to the story! Plus, after experiencing the Flash writers slowly destroy my desire to see BA on television, I want him and his Speedforce to stay far far away from SC. Unless his tears can counterbalance DD's gold wavebeams, I think we are doing ok without him.

They play a lot of promos when you watch it online and I thought of you when I kept on being able to identify sets... literally I was like there is that staircase. I know money is tight, but is that really the only staircase in all of Vancouver.

[looptab]

52 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

That was how the scene was interpreted elsewhere in Laurel friendly territory, which surprised me since I was expecting a lot of complaints since I personally thought Donna wasn't making a lot of sense. 

I did like that she just flat out owned that yes, she's going to snoop, lol. 

Gasp! How is that possible? Is my mind starting to interpret things like they do? Can it be stopped? I am scared. :D

 

Re: DD and Genesis and how much of his plan is acquiring power and how much is resetting the world, yes, ITA. I mentioned this last week also, but the show hasn't given yet a clear motivation for him to set in motion this plan.

With Macolm Merlyn and the Undertaking, we knew that he was doing it cause after his wife's murder he felt that the Glades and the people leaving there were the worst and all would be better once he eradicated them. With DD all we got was him telling Ruvè that he promised her a new beginning. Ok, cool. But why? What brought this on? If they just leave it at "the world needs a reset" it's pretty lame. Which is what I fear will happen. I don't think they'll go beyond him being a megalomaniac who feesl the world needs to be destroyed and rebuilt, and he has to be the one who does it.

[Midnight Lullaby]

41 minutes ago, kismet said:

Not stupid... literally the same question I was shouting out to my laptop.... I feel like that's what they do in other shows. If DD still needed dead people for plot purposes maybe it could hit a cruise ship or perhaps aquatic deaths would count for plot purposes.

But as I think about it now, knowing nothing about computer/coding/hacking - perhaps in that short time the only algorithm she could remember to rearrange the GPS only allowed her to change the mileage a certain amount, perhaps she didn't have any other non-land coordinates available.

Either way - feel bad about those people, but understand Lyla's point as well. I think it was a bold move for the show to not have them succeed but also not fail.

I should rewatch but I thought they said Felicity could change the GPS coordinates of the city of 20 miles, so I assumed that was the option that would have caused less casualties.

I don't know if sending it into the ocean would have been a good idea though because it could have had indirect consequences on a larger scale and on more people at the end, but they could have directed it to a deserted area if they could choose any location.

[bijoux]

12 minutes ago, looptab said:

Re: DD and Genesis and how much of his plan is acquiring power and how much is resetting the world, yes, ITA. I mentioned this last week also, but the show hasn't given yet a clear motivation for him to set in motion this plan.

With Macolm Merlyn and the Undertaking, we knew that he was doing it cause after his wife's murder he felt that the Glades and the people leaving there were the worst and all would be better once he eradicated them. With DD all we got was him telling Ruvè that he promised her a new beginning. Ok, cool. But why? What brought this on? If they just leave it at "the world needs a reset" it's pretty lame. Which is what I fear will happen. I don't think they'll go beyond him being a megalomaniac who feesl the world needs to be destroyed and rebuilt, and he has to be the one who does it.

I still hypothesize that it has to do with their kid, but I have no idea why they didn't reveal the motivation during the episodes where almost nothing happened.

2 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I should rewatch but I thought they said Felicity could change the GPS coordinates of the city of 20 miles, so I assumed that was the option that would have caused less casualties.

I don't know if sending it into the ocean would have been a good idea though because it could have had indirect consequences on a larger scale and on more people at the end, but they could have directed it to a deserted area if they could choose any location.

Felicity did it once in the past. So she probably had that algorythm ready. And the casualty count was definitely much smaller. Tens of thousands opposed to millions according to Lyla. What I found interesting is that Noah knew about Felicity having done this in the past. 

[kismet]

2 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I should rewatch but I thought they said Felicity could change the GPS coordinates of the city of 20 miles, so I assumed that was the option that would have caused less casualties.

I don't know if sending it into the ocean would have been a good idea though because it could have had indirect consequences on a larger scale and on more people at the end, but they could have directed it to a deserted area if they could choose any location.

Yea, the ocean probably not a good option as you and others have pointed out. But I do feel like I've seen it happen on other movie & TV shows, but maybe they were not nuclear weapons, just average missiles & bombs. Either way, I think it was a bold choice for the show to have the bomb actually hit & cause casualties.

[thuganomics85]

Brick!  And Noah!  Loved how the show brought back some familiar faces for this one.  Brick continues to be a solid antagonist on a physical level, and Noah is really becoming a blast now.  Tom Amandes is always awesome, and I really enjoy how he and Emily Bett Rickards play off one another. I don't want him here all the time (risk getting into Malcolm territory), but I hope Noah keeps playing a part in these final episodes and next season as well.

I don't know what it is, but it really does feel like they stepped-up the fight and action scenes in these past few episodes.  What has been holding them back for the majority of the season?  Because the Oliver vs. Brick scene, Thea vs. Anarky, stairwell corridor, and Oliver and Diggle taking on the Ghosts, all easily outclassed pretty much everything else this season has brought.  Have the directors/stunt team been change?  Budget gotten better now that it is near the end?

So.... the show just totally nuked 10,000 people, huh?  Well, it was either that or millions, but that is still pretty fucking dark.  Poor Felicity.

Lyla continues to be awesome.  Better tell her the truth, Diggle, and not have her find out someway else, or your ass is grassed, and I'm going to be pissed at you if this means Lyla goes away.

The heist scene was great.

The flashbacks are still lame and silly, but whatever.  Poppy is now possessed, so that's a barrel of laughs at least.

Thea under the dome is dull, but Anarky crashing the party was kind of fun.  Although I still can't take him seriously, because I think of the time where he actually held his own against both Oliver and Thea, and I keep wondering why hasn't he just beaten everyone down by now, since he's apparently the best fighter on this show.

Fare thee well, Alex, I guess.

Usually enjoy Donna, but what in the hell were they trying to do with her and Quentin.  She just came off kind of mean and harsh to a man whose daughter just died, what, months ago?  Try and be a little more understanding, Donna.

Damien Dahrk's just continuing to get his Shang Tsung on and acquire more souls, thanks to that nuke.  Uh oh!

[Genki]

I'll give POTUS a pass on calling Felicity an IT girl, because I assume Lyla didn't give away their secret identities just their function in TA.

I also noticed that Noah imply that he has been keeping watch on Felicity's Hacking.This could be how he recognised "Overwatch" as her handy-work. I now wonder about his opinion on Cooper.

Donna over-sharing about Felicity's conception, delightfully awkward. Donna as QL's "moral compass"????? Confusing.

I loved Oliver's absolute faith in Felicity, and the caper was a nice call back to S1, but a little more Olicity please!

I feel bad for Felicity, I hope people at PT get behind her to say she was a great boss, but I can definitely do without PT being mentioned again. Also she is going to carry that guilt of 10,000 people around for a long time. It weird because I could have bought Felicity's emotions in the Limo, being over Dark making her cause so many death, rather than just Laurel's, but alas that scene has passed.

[ottoDbusdriver]

9 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

I wonder what's the bigger news in the Arrowverse these days - the evil speedster who controls Central City or the Russian nuclear missile that wiped out tens of thousands of innocent people.  That should have started World War III since there's no way in hell the public would buy that some evil mastermind orchestrated all of this just so he could get a power boost. 

 

6 hours ago, Angel12d said:

I wonder if Damien even truly believes in his 'world needs a reset' plan, but just wanted all the power from the deaths the nukes would have caused. Hmm.

The bigger issue is that 'resetting the world' via nuclear destruction is a terrible idea -- it would be hundreds if not thousands of years before they could return to the surface, and once they got to the the surface it would most likely be uninhabitable, still highly radioactive, there'd be no animals to hunt or usable land to plant in and all the water would still be contaminated.  But other than all that, great plan.

And that is some pretty shitty planning if there is exactly ONE CO2 scrubber in the entire dome complex -- for the duration of time they would be down there they should have had military level triple and quadruple redundancies.

While most of the fight sequences were pretty decent, the fight scene between Lonnie and Thea came off as particularly choreographed and fake.

And what was with all the flying spin kicks by Ollie this episode ?  Has he been saving them up to use all at once ?

5 hours ago, Xenith22 said:

Meh.  A small town we never heard of, with not a single character we ever met was nuked on the other side of the country.   Sure if such an event happened in real life it would be a major deal, I mean in addition to the 10k instantly dead you have the nuclear fallout for miles causing countless more deaths illnesses and rendering the area uninhabitable for at least half a century,  the media would talk about nothing else for months and it would be talked about for years, there would be presidential speeches, there could be major political repercussions over the US/Argus building tech to hijack other countries missiles, there would be a manhunt maybe even a deploying of the national guard,  etc.   But none of that is really relevant to Arrow or the Flash.

Wasn't the small town called Havenbrook -- it sounded like one of the towns with monorails from the Simpsons (oh, that was North Haverbrook).

An unprovoked nuclear missile attack from Russia that wiped out a small town and would create radioactive fallout problems downwind for years would have triggered an immediate response from the US.  And Damien Darke would have been the least of anyone's problem.

My bigger problem is that everyone kept mentioning that the nuke was headed for Monument Point, and Monument Point was too important, and Monument Point being nuked would cause millions of deaths -- and my question was "where the fuck is Monument Point ?" until they finally showed it on the map and it looked like Washington, D.C. or thereabouts.  Because I don't recall Monument Point ever being mentioned before this episode.

I figured Monument Point was just down the coast from Monument Beach from Futurama
http://futurama.wikia.com/wiki/Monument_Beach

[cambridgeguy]

Quote

(I get so frustrated when people say they should just call Barry for help. What's the point if they just call him for help all the time? That would be making it The Flash show instead of Arrow. Ugh logic.)

They shouldn't succeed in reaching Barry (he's powerless, he's trapped in the speed force, he's having a good cry, etc.) but it makes Team Arrow look ridiculous for not even trying.  Constantine isn't popping up anytime soon but at least Oliver tried to reach him for help in previous episodes.  Billions of lives were potentially on the line so not even trying to call their superpowered friend and his crack team of geniuses is inconceivable. 

[looptab]

All the unnecessary flips by Oliver and Anarky made me miss Roy.

[Jediknight]

9 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Just taking a wild guess here, but nuking the ocean is probably a really bad idea, haha.

It would probably just cause a massive tidal wave, and make the water and wildlife radioactive.  That's nothing to worry about.

[mrspidey]

Why is everyone praising the fighting? Sure, there was a lot of it, but Olli just kept spamming that same salto-spinning-kick over and over. A bit more variety and mix-ups please?

[looptab]

3 minutes ago, mrspidey said:

Why is everyone praising the fighting? Sure, there was a lot of it, but Olli just kept spamming that same salto-spinning-kick over and over. A bit more variety and mix-ups please?

Because it had purpose, and wasn't there just because. Also because Oliver's been getting his ass kicked all season or barely showed fighting, and this episode was the opposite of that. :)

Edited May 12, 2016 by looptab

[mrspidey]

Sure but why make it boring to watch by repeating the same move over and over? And it doesn't help that pretty much everyone on TV and in movies seems to be using that move nowadays. 

[ComicFan777]

If the nuke went into the water, it would dilute the radioactive contamination because of the large body of water.  The radioactive contamination would end up with some on the ocean floor and some swept up by the current and be absorbed by marine life and seaweed.  Local marine life would die.  The biggest concern for people would be the food sources coming from sea life and high concentrations of radioactive particles washing to the nearby shore.  In the short term, it would have been safer to move the nuke to the ocean.  However, in the long term, there may be more people dying from cancer due to accumulation from consuming the radioactivity from food or water that may be linked to that ocean...so you are looking at the possibility of slow deaths over a long period of time versus definite immediate deaths.  Similarly in IRL, we will be seeing the effects of the Fukishima nuclear leak into the Pacific Ocean for years to come.

Since Felicity could only move it a small distance away from its original destination, I don't think she had the option to move it to the ocean.  She made the right choice in moving the nuke to a less-populated area, but it wasn't an easy choice - I feel so bad for her. 

Edited May 12, 2016 by ComicFan777

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Man, Alex was really drinking the Kool-Aid. When he said he knew exactly what was happening under the dome and followed it up with "Isn't it fantastic?" I thought that Thea might punch him in hopes of knocking some sense into him.

Loved Oliver skulking around Palmer Technologies.

I love that Charlotte Ross looks good for her age but real (meaning not overly botoxed). I still remember her as Evie on Days of Our Lives so I like that she looks like an older version of Evie (as opposed to looking like her skin's been stretched within an inch of its life).

[mrspidey]

Regarding the nuke. That's not how nukes explode. They don't hit the ground but explode many hundreds of feet above their target. A detonation on the ground would send most of the blast's energy into that ground where it simply gets absorbed. 

Now you could say that Felicity did this on purpose but then you'd have to ask why she didn't send the nuke into the stratossphere instead. That would have caused very minimal damage and no long-term radiation effects. 

[benteen]

7 hours ago, wonderwall said:

People are asking why Team Arrow couldn't have called Barry... IDK He was probably too busy crying to help... 

I'm tired of the double standards where Felicity is whiney for crying (Seriously, I've already seen comments about "here come the waterworks" in regards to Felicity being unable to save 10k+ people) but Barry is applauded for being sensitive... 

There's been complaints about Felicity crying?  I've never considered it excessive on her part and it was certainly justified tonight.  Barry though...all her ever does on The Flash is cry (in between getting 7,000 pep talks from his 80 father figures).  I used to joke that John Wesley Shipp gets paid by the tear for The Flash but that applies to Grant Gustin too.

[ComicFan777]

I think putting radiation in the atmosphere would cause more widespread radiation because it gives the radiation the opportunity to drift with even less predictability and fallout anywhere in the world.  Radiation contamination would still drop out of the atmosphere anywhere in the world through rain no matter how high you inject it into the atmosphere - it would still make it way down to the earth's surface, may just take longer with less predictability.  Fallout over an ocean is more contained to that particular body of water because say, cesium (which has the longest half-life is the most concerning element) is heavy, would fall faster onto water, and be absorbed by marine life or fall to the ocean bottom. 

Felicity only had GPS control not altitude control, so sending it into the atmosphere wouldn't be an option.  I don't think it would be a smart action either because of its unpredictability. 

Edited May 12, 2016 by ComicFan777

[KirkB]

Even the Flash couldn't stop a nuclear missile. The only thing Barry theoretically could have done is evacuate Havenbrooke (sp?). But since Felicity didn't know until the last minute that was where the bomb was going to hit (she redirected the GPS and only then knew it would be another town) I'm not sure even Barry would have had time to do anything.

I too was a bit distracted by the flipping kick thing Oliver was doing a lot of, but before I began to notice it I was just impressed Oliver was actually fighting. It has been a while since the show remembered he is supposed to be a good fighter. And it occurs to me he was doing some more athletic, parkour type moves before Roy came along, then they went to him.

Dark's plan confused me. Had he succeeded most of the world would be ruined, billions dead, and he would have gotten a major power boost, right? So what? He'd be the god of a very small underground kingdom. Everyone in the dome was already either loyal to him or under his control. And by the time anyone was able to go back to the surface even he would probably be dead of old age.

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, KirkB said:

And by the time anyone was able to go back to the surface even he would probably be dead of old age.

I'm 99% sure the magical juju keeps him forever young. He was in the League with Ra's, but I don't remember how old he was. Hundreds of years, maybe?

Edited May 12, 2016 by apinknightmare

[KirkB]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

 

6 minutes ago, KirkB said:

And by the time anyone was able to go back to the surface even he would probably be dead of old age.

I'm 99% sure the magical juju keeps him forever young?

 

You're right. I forgot about that. Still, Dark might be able to wait out the planet, but all the rest of his followers would be dead. I suppose, if he has enough, he could eventually lead their childrens childrens children back to the surface?

Edited May 12, 2016 by KirkB

[apinknightmare]

6 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

It would affect a scenario where she leaves but nobody knows it's not by her choice. Or even if she wanted to just vanish, then she has to not be tied to Star City. 

Yeah, I think that's the plan - to have all of his followers reproduce and live underground until it's safe to go back up again.