S04.E21: Monument Point

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

When Team Arrow learns what Damien Darhk's next move is, Felicity realizes she needs to ask her father, Noah Kuttler (aka The Calculator), for help. Noah and Oliver have a heart to heart talk that leaves Oliver rattled.

Promo:

[Angel12d]

Look at all the action scenes Oliver got tonight. YAAAAS!

[nksarmi]

Anarky's "I'm trying to liberate you mommy" might be one of the creepiest lines ever and yet it somehow made me start to like him.

Other than that, I liked the episode but I hate Thea's subplot.

[Delphi]

First and most important thought,  maybe Donna should calm the fuck down about what Lance is doing considering he just buried his damn daughter and I assume still needs to be employed.   Cops have denied working with and condoning vigilantes for years.   I don't see James Gordon going around telling people his daughter led multiple double lives. 

 

Poor Alex.   You know the cw doesn't like guys with facial hair.   Silly mistake. 

On,  how the hell did the board just fire Felicity workout any meetings or discussing it with her or anything,  is it really that easy to do?

 

I love Lonnie,  he should come back,  reform and be Thea's Lil helper or something. 

Edited May 12, 2016 by Delphi
anarky love

[dtissagirl]

I haven't had this much FUN watching Arrow since Russia. Welcome back, delightfulness.

I can't believe Felicity and Friends is approved by POTUS.

Edited May 12, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Morrigan2575]

Holy Crap! That was a fantastic episode. Brought back so many great memories of what i loved about Arrow in S1. The PT break in reminded me of the Merlyn Global job.

Loved the Felicity/Noak scenes. That was so much fun, i really hope to see more of them going forward 

I didn't like the Donna/Lance stuff, i just didn't get her issues.

The flashbacks were boring...stop it show.

The fight sequences. OMG the fights were a thing of beauty. I so missed these fights, see show this is what happens when you dont put 4 fighters in the field and let 2 stand around.

Didn't care about under the dome stuff but everything else was great.

[Angel12d]

Pace wise the episode wasn't as good as last week because there was a lot going on so it felt a bit disjointed but I still enjoyed it. It actually hit its stride from when OTA went on their little mission a la Merlyn Global. LOVE.

Also, undercover Oliver in his leather jacket kicking ass in the stairwell was HOT. Haha.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Angel12d

[EmilyBettFan]

Man that was amazing! Poor Felicity though omg

[KenyaJ]

Wow. That episode felt like it flew by in 10 minutes.  There was so much happening that I definitely need to watch it again, but it feels so great to want to watch the show again immediately two weeks in a row. The flashbacks didn't even bug me this week. (I still ignored them. I just wasn't mad about it.) I really loved the balance of action scenes (that were good!) and the quieter moments that allowed the character moments to breath.

And Oliver gave Diggle actual good advice, having learned from his fuckup with Felicity! Will wonders never cease?

[AyChihuahua]

So unbelievably bored of seeing Thea in danger and being a totally incompetent hero. Ever heard of CPR, dumbass? It's good for electrocution? Frigging dumbass. Also, Ray Palmer gave Felicity the company. The gift tax implications of that are genuinely stunning, but whatevs, that's the show's canon. Please help me understand how a board can fire the OWNER. Even if they did some shenanigans with the bylaws, she would still OWN the damn company, so could just dismiss the board and appoint new members.

LOVE Noah. Tom Amandes is a damn charmer. I was boycotting the show during his last appearance, so thrilled he returned. His big convo with Oliver sure was overstated, though. All the OTA + Noah + Lyla stuff was very entertaining.

[calliope1975]

This is the show I've been missing. The fight and stunt coordinators got their mojo back. Those were really fun, good fights. Papa Smoak is charming and enjoyable; feel free to pop in from time to time. 

I'm glad the nuke hit. It wasn't a total win for Team Arrow but it could have been so, so much worse. Lyla gets that; I doubt we'll see much follow up with Felicity due to story and time constraints, but that's why there's fanfic. 

Thea and Anarchy - yeah. I can see some angry, inappropriate flirting in the future. 

I hope Felicity's firing means this is the beginning of Smoak Technologies. I'm sure her contract had some sweet payout. 

[wonderwall]

My face got so red and hot towards the end because it was so tense! This hasn't happened to me in a while. So for that, well done Arrow!

[EmeraldArcher]

Wow!  There were so many different tones to this one--the Felicity and Friends caper through Palmer Tech, Donna and Quentin's heart-to-heart (what a weird addition to this episode), the diversion of the nuke that still killed tens of thousands (poor Felicity!), and the whole Thea/Malcolm/Anarky dynamic.  I feel that the stakes were ratcheted up throughout the episode, with character and family-driven moments starting out the episode until it became unbearably suspenseful toward the end, especially not knowing what's going to happen to #Poppy ;-)

I think they oversold the Noah/Oliver conversation, as it didn't seem to provide any new insight into Oliver.  I thought his conversation with Digg about lying to Lyla provided much better insight into his regret.  That stupid line to Noah about not being able to lead a double-life felt like a stupid S3 retread

I really admired Felicity in this episode, even more than usual.  I love how she can compartmentalize at Oliver-levels of focus regarding losing PT.  She clearly has her priorities straight: saving the world > saving her tenure as CEO.  I still wasn't expecting her to lose PT, though.  Maybe that leads to her own company.

And, wow!  Oliver is back!  The stunts were great, and I loved his extended fight with Brick, although at times I asked "Roy, is that you?" because of all of the gratuitous flipping.

[Angel12d]

Seriously though, those stunts. I think we saw more Oliver stunts in that episode than we have most of the season. And they were good.

I just really loved seeing Diggle and Oliver out in the field again by themselves guys! And so much OTA. 

Edited May 12, 2016 by Angel12d

[Coop33]

Wow, another good episode. I can't believe they actually set off a nuke.

Loved the action in this - it was actually fun to watch! And the Palmer Tech shenanigans brought back nice memories of the Merlyn Global heist in season 1.

Despite moving really quickly, they still managed to fit in some nice character moments. Really enjoyed digging deeper into Felicity and Noah's relationship. I hope Donna and Noah get a scene together at some point.

Oliver and Diggle should do more in their street clothes. What a treat.

Lyla needs to be a regular right now. She is awesome and works so well with the team.

I never really cared about Thea/Alex, but I could ship Thea/Anarky. Loved his little speech to her about being a "Queen".

[Angel12d]

The only real problem I had with this episode was Donna/Quentin. I cannot get to grips with SmoaknLance and it just felt unnecessary in this episode tbh. And I wasn't really sure what Donna was talking about? 

[Soulfire]

Loved seeing Oliver being the one to give Diggle advice.

Seeing the flashbacks back reminds me just how much they disrupt the story flow of the present day narrative. 

Lyla: "The fate of the world lies in the hands on an IT girl, two guys in Halloween costumes & her criminal father." ACES. More Lyla, show. More Lyla always.

Lastly, geez, they have to save Thea again. Must be May.

[AyChihuahua]

1 minute ago, Soulfire said:

Lyla: "The fate of the world lies in the hands on an IT girl, two guys in Halloween costumes & her criminal father." ACES. More Lyla, show. More Lyla always.

Lastly, geez, they have to save Thea again. Must be May.

The best part is that she was quoting POTUS. If Oliver ends up revealing himself, NOW we know how he avoids prosecution. 

I seriously can't stand any of Thea's storylines anymore. You know, all two of them, that they just keep cycling through. I'd really like her to die, TBH, but at least I'd love for her to leave, for good.

[EmeraldArcher]

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Holy Crap! That was a fantastic episode. Brought back so many great memories of what i loved about Arrow in S1. The PT break in reminded me of the Merlyn Global job.

I LOVED the PT break-in, and kept chanting, "Please let there be an elevator shaft, please let there be an elevator shaft."  Well, there was, but not quite in the way that I was hoping for.

For some reason, seeing that glimpse of Oliver's leather jacket as he followed the PT guards into the lab was heart-stopping.  I kept thinking he was some quiet menace lurking in broad day light (which he was), and that took me right back to S1.  Oh, Oliver, I've MISSED you so much! I freaking loved the stunts, LOVED THEM!

I really love Lyla. She is a legitimate bad ass and awesome in every way.  

I liked Thea and Anarky's scenes, and when he told her to stop being a pawn because she's a Queen, I might have fist pumped!  Yes!  I felt like that was a meta statement and the same thing we've complained about for so long.  However, I am not looking forward to any variation of the same old story line for her.  Next week's trailer is ugh-inducing.

[catrox14]

Man, that was the best episode in forever. I loved just about all of it.

Bad ass actual good fighting.

Great pacing.

[Angel12d]

Thea/Malcolm's story is so overdone at this point I really don't understand what they're doing anymore. I actually roll my eyes whenever they have a talking scene because I know it's the same old, same old. But I did like what Anarky said to Thea, that she doesn't have to be dependent on a man or whatever it was. And that she's not a pawn. Cheesy but effective because yes. Enough with Malcolm trying to save her and Oliver rushing to save her. Just stop.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Angel12d

[GirlvsTV]

Loved all of the Papa Smoak stuff, loved OTA out in the field again and I feel terrible for Felicity - but very interested in seeing how her character handles the aftermath of this episode. 

Thea is reaching LL levels of irritation for me though. I really could not have cared less about her storyline tonight.

I am loving the character stuff we are getting for Felicity, Oliver and Diggle, but the magic stuff is so silly that the whole finale plot has me rolling my eyes. Also, that Green Arrow costume needs to get nuked. I can't take Oliver seriously as a badass when he is fighting in it. All the plain clothes fighting was on point, but the moment those turtle shells went on it was back to lamesville. I could have done without all the silly flippy kicking at the end too. Looked dumb when Roy did it, still looks dumb with Oliver doing it.

[catrox14]

Also, I can't believe they legit nuked a city. HOLY FUCK. Malcolm must be so jealous right now

[Orion]

I can ignore the flashbacks and Thea's storyline.

Everything else was perfect - OTA with Merlyn Global feels. Quentin backing up team Arrow. Oliver fighting and winning in street clothes.  All of the fantastic fight scenes. Plot tension from being to end.   

[EmeraldArcher]

22 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Look at all the action scenes Oliver got tonight. YAAAAS!

 

20 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I haven't had this much FUN watching Arrow since Russia. Welcome back, delightfulness.

 

19 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Holy Crap! That was a fantastic episode. Brought back so many great memories of what i loved about Arrow in S1. The PT break in reminded me of the Merlyn Global

The fight sequences. OMG the fights were a thing of beauty. I so missed these fights, see show this is what happens when you dont put 4 fighters in the field and let 2 stand around.

 

19 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Also, undercover Oliver in his leather jacket kicking ass in the stairwell was HOT. Haha.

 

18 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

 I really loved the balance of action scenes (that were good!) and the quieter moments that allowed the character moments to breath.

 

 

15 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

This is the show I've been missing. The fight and stunt coordinators got their mojo back. Those were really fun, good fights. 

 

15 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

My face got so red and hot towards the end because it was so tense! This hasn't happened to me in a while. So for that, well done Arrow!

 

14 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Seriously though, those stunts. I think we saw more Oliver stunts in that episode than we have most of the season. And they were good.

I just really loved seeing Diggle and Oliver out in the field again by themselves guys! And so much OTA. 

 

13 minutes ago, Coop33 said:

Loved the action in this - it was actually fun to watch! And the Palmer Tech shenanigans brought back nice memories of the Merlyn Global heist in season 1.

Oliver and Diggle should do more in their street clothes. What a treat.

 

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Man, that was the best episode in forever. I loved just about all of it.

Bad ass actual good fighting.

Hey, world!  This is what Arrow fan girls love! ;-)

[EmilyBettFan]

I think the fight scenes were lacking before because they had to accommodate LL (KC) and that those fights weren't even intricate or memorable because they know she couldn't do any of them. So they had to make them simple to what they knew people would believe LL "could do." Now they have room to let those scenes breathe and become memorable.

[Angel12d]

Also yes I did notice and appreciate my little Delicity scene where Diggle rushed in and asked Felicity frantically if she'd been hit. YES. 

I actually loved everything they did with Felicity tonight. I've found some of their choices for her this season (post 415) a bit...eh...but I thought she was great tonight. I loved her face when she found out she was probably conceived to Lionel Richie music (yikes TMI TMI!) and I was genuinely surprised that they fired her from PT. It shouldn't be surprising really but I didn't think they'd go there. Smoak Tech here we come maybe? But I really like the potential of the fallout to her changing the GPS for the nuke. It's not her fault and she saved more lives in the long run but you could tell it's going to affect her a lot. There's a lot of potential there. 

Edited May 12, 2016 by Angel12d

[wonderwall]

Y'all are missing the best part. 

NO MORE PALMER TECH. WE ARE FREE FROM HIM IN ALL MANNERS.

BRING IN SMOAK TECH.

[HunterHunted]

15 minutes ago, nksarmi said:

Anarky's "I'm trying to liberate you mommy" might be one of the creepiest lines ever and yet it somehow made me start to like him.

Other than that, I liked the episode but I hate Thea's subplot.

Soooooo creepy, but so good.

I don't really understand what Donna's objections were.

I really need this show to understand how corporations and stocks and shares work. Ray gifted Felicity his controlling interest in the company. The board could fire her as president, but not straight up ban her from the company where she is a majority stockholder.

I have worked for politicians. There is almost no situation I could imagine where I would take pills that my member gave me. Literally nearly every word out of my bosses' mouths were scripted by the legislative staff. We did all of the research. We were the experts on most things. If my boss had come in telling us to take these supplements, that would be a clear sign for me to throw them in the trash because they are probably poison. Even the really smart reps, there are just some things that they so damn dumb about. All of this is the long way off saying that if Alex had really worked in politics as long as he said, he would have known to take Ruve's pills, smile, and chuck them into the trash when she's out of eyesight. I feel badish for Thea that he's dead, but clearly he didn't have the brains that God gave a hamster.

[Soulfire]

 

 

 

Finishing with best line of the night --

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Y'all are missing the best part. 

NO MORE PALMER TECH. WE ARE FREE FROM HIM IN ALL MANNERS.

BRING IN SMOAK TECH.

If her storyline for S5 is starting up a small tech company with Cutis by her side I'd be cool with that. I'd be happier with Felicity and Lyla working together at Argus.

[Angel12d]

I just realized that Oliver outright admitted to lying. Maybe he could tell that to Felicity next time, hmm?

Also, where exactly is the scene where Noah and Oliver have a talk that leaves Oliver rattled, per the episode description? I did not get that impression from their scene AT ALL. CW PR fail. 

[apinknightmare]

Just now, Angel12d said:

I just realized that Oliver outright admitted to lying. Maybe he could tell that to Felicity next time, hmm?

He already admitted that to Digg in Broken Hearts. ;)

[Angel12d]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

He already admitted that to Digg in Broken Hearts. ;)

Haha, I forgot about that. Still not to Felicity though. Sigh.

On that note, I do miss the Olicity closeness. 

[benteen]

Wow, they actually nuked a town in this episode!

I thought it was great.  A lot of action and a lot of fun, moving at a quick pace and in multiple locations.

I liked the Papa Smoak stuff a lot and it was actually logical to bring him in on this one.

I enjoyed Diggle joking with Felicity that her father technically wasn't stealing from her anymore.

I didn't care for Thea's bizarre storyline but was glad when she beat up that boy band reject.

I totally didn't like Donna throwing such a fuss over Quentin's statement.  Talk about ridiculous.

The flashbacks are just a waste.

A few issues aside, this was a really good and fun episode.

[dtissagirl]

3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'd be happier with Felicity and Lyla working together at Argus.

That would lead to total world domination by like, February Sweeps.

[cambridgeguy]

I wonder what's the bigger news in the Arrowverse these days - the evil speedster who controls Central City or the Russian nuclear missile that wiped out tens of thousands of innocent people.  That should have started World War III since there's no way in hell the public would buy that some evil mastermind orchestrated all of this just so he could get a power boost. 

[johntfs]

I admit I kind of ship Thea/Arkady in a Buffy Season 6 hatefucking kind of way.  They'd be hot and nasty, like a creepy, sexy car wreck.

[Morrigan2575]

8 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

That would lead to total world domination by like, February Sweeps.

I'm bow before our new overlords :-)

Edited May 12, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[statsgirl]

Did Felicity just cause the death of tens of thousands of people?  Does that make her the biggest badass on the show?

18 minutes ago, Soulfire said:

 

Felicity And Friends ... guest starring Noah Kuttler.

[Lantern7]

Damn. They nuked a town. If he end up with a finale where Barry runs to the past carrying Oliver, I'll understand. I'll be miffed, but I'll understand.

Noah is cool, though I'm pretty certain I wouldn't want him on the show all the time. Still waiting for him and Donna to reunite, so she can kick him in the nuts. Why let Quentin beat her to it?

"Whatever" to the flashbacks. Also found my mind wandering with Thea. I'm guessing the people moving into the protective dome were cult members by the look of their clothes.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Did Felicity just cause the death of tens of thousands of people?  Does that make her the biggest badass on the show?

Felicity And Friends ... guest starring Noah Kuttler.

I think it's more like Felicity saved millions of people. She had to make a choice. That was the badassery. This is gonna mess her up but good. :( IMO

[popgoesculture]

That was a packed episode, but while I totally enjoyed it, I'm irritated that it took this long to get to it. Like the brief mention that Noah escaped when DD did; did we know that? There have been so many terrible pacing/storyline decisions that while I appreciate this ep and the last, I'm still annoyed that it took us this long to get to it.

Also, show, when you have the bad guy point out the problems with Thea's storylines/characterizations, that's going beyond meta. Just FIX it. The whole cycle with her and Malcolm is beyond belief. I will say that I admired the contrast to Felicity/Noah, since Noah agreed to help because he is invested in his daughter continuing to live. I'm intrigued by him, and I hope he sticks around off and on for a while. 

I also thought Donna's scene was odd, but kind of telling that she has this rigid inflexibility about lying (and really, what was the point of the scene?), which sits in sharp contrast to Noah's criminal side... and Felicity is the odd combo of them, with the ability to lie but for the greater good.

ALSO, who is living in the loft? I thought Felicity and Oliver moved out?!? Is Donna just living there? What happened to Vegas? 

[HighHopes]

3 minutes ago, popgoesculture said:

ALSO, who is living in the loft? I thought Felicity and Oliver moved out?!? Is Donna just living there? What happened to Vegas? 

I wonder how far away Vegas is from Star City. Apparently Noah has a cabin in Ravenspur (?) that Noah and Donna used to go to from Vegas, but Team Arrow could also get there in one night from Star City (in their van I think?). 

I think the loft is now empty, and maybe Donna stays there? Where will Thea live now that Laurel is dead, since I assume she won't be crashing on her couch anymore?

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, popgoesculture said:

ALSO, who is living in the loft? I thought Felicity and Oliver moved out?!? Is Donna just living there? What happened to Vegas? 

Oliver put it up on Air B-n-B.

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

Oliver put it up on Air B-n-B.

That's fucking awesome! You win!

[AyChihuahua]

27 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Haha, I forgot about that. Still not to Felicity though. Sigh.

On that note, I do miss the Olicity closeness. 

He told Felicity "No more lying," in 16, when he was trying to convince her to marry him. I was pretty surprised the writers actually had him, more or less, admit he lied.

[Lady Calypso]

I may not like Thea's storyline, but damn if I didn't laugh at Anarky's Queen pun. I ship Anarky/Thea. I probably shouldn't, but I do. So, Alex is dead and Thea doesn't bother doing CPR on him. Well, bye Alex. You never got interesting, and that's no fault to your actor. Parker Young is incredibly capable of acting, but they mishandled Alex throughout the entire season. Oh well.

Malcolm can die at any time now. Maybe Thea can shove him up to the surface before the world goes if Damien would be successful, which we know he isn't. 

The fight scenes! Oh, the glorious fight scenes!

The only moment of the flashbacks I didn't fast forward through was #Poppy turning into the yellow eyed demon. Ok, but serious question: is her name actually Poppy? Because I'm pretty sure it isn't, but I have absolutely no idea what it is. 

Lyla! It's great to see you! I love her in a recurring status, and love when she teams up with TA. 

Honestly, I kind of liked Noah Cuttler. His relationship with Felicity is so distant, but they really work well together. I would not mind seeing him a bit more. I am almost convinced that Noah knows that GA is Oliver, or he's on the path to figure it out.

The Donna/Lance subplot confused me. So....Donna doesn't want Quentin to lie because??  It just made no sense to me. I wasn't sure why Donna was so concerned with Quentin not lying about knowing Laurel was BC. I can't imagine she would feel betrayed over Quentin not telling her about Laurel, because that would be ridiculous. 

13 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Did Felicity just cause the death of tens of thousands of people?  Does that make her the biggest badass on the show?

I wouldn't put it like this. I mean, she saved millions of lives, but had to sacrifice tens of thousands in order to do that. Personally, I wouldn't call her causing the death of innocents as badass (I mean, Malcolm would have done it with The Glades, and we wouldn't call him badass). However, managing to redirect the missle and saving millions of lives is kind of badass...just should have been under better circumstances. 

5 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

I think the loft is now empty, and maybe Donna stays there? Where will Thea live now that Laurel is dead, since I assume she won't be crashing on her couch anymore?

I think the loft is still Felicity's, judging by the computer equipment, and Donna might also live there. At the very least, it is still owned by either Oliver or Felicity, so they use it as a secondary base/hang out. As for Thea, she might inherit Laurel's apartment. I mean, she'll get her own bed this time. 

Oh yeah! New set! I was actually very impressed by the Star City Data Center set. At least the inside/stair scenes. Very visually appealing for me.

Also loved Team Arrow breaking into Palmer Tech. I don't love that she was forced out of ownership (can the board even do that?) but if that means no more Palmer Tech, then I'm all for it.

[BkWurm1]

Currently rewatching since I know I missed stuff while I raged over the show once again trying to make CEO and owner the same thing.  It's not.  It's really not.  Also JUST yesterday I delivered an epic smack down about why Felicity actually had been portrayed as a more attentive CEO than either Ray who cared so little that he gave his company or Oliver who managed to lose it and of course there was just no time for anything like that to happen to Felicity this year.   Arghh!!!! At least they fired her because she didn't want to gouge the world's population of paralyzed people.  If you have to get canned, might as well be for noble reasons.   

[Morrigan2575]

Quote

The only moment of the flashbacks I didn't fast forward through was #Poppy turning into the yellow eyed demon. Ok, but serious question: is her name actually Poppy? Because I'm pretty sure it isn't, but I have absolutely no idea what it is. 

It's Tiana or something like that.