S03.E20: Emancipation

[blackwing]

12 hours ago, DeLurker said:

The headline in the paper Coulson had was the obit for Agent Carter. Nice picture too.  Guess with the cancellation that was a subtle goodbye.

I was very interested in the body of the article... what with all the speculation about her husband.  In the article it said something about how "she went on to marry her husband and had two children by him, who survive her".  Didn't say the husband's name of course.  It was widely speculated on this show that Antoine "Trip" Triplett was her grandson.  He said his grandfather was a Howling Commando.  In the comics, the only black member was Gabe Jones, and Gabe Jones went on to marry Peggy Carter.  But they never said.   Also, has the show actually been cancelled?  I heard that Hayley Atwell signed on for another show but I didn't see any official cancellation.

 

I question as to how the Australian guy (is his name Hellfire?  I thought it was James and I've never heard him called otherwise) could kill Lash so easily.  Wasn't his power to charge objects and make them explode, like Gambit?  How is that now he seems to only use a fiery chain?  The chain has a charge but doesn't explode, why not?  In any event, Lash was pretty near-invulnerable the last time we saw him.  He shrugged off electricity from Lincoln like it was nothing.  But now he dies?  Why?  I can only surmise it's because someone needed to be sacrificed at the altar of Daisy.  Ugh.  Lash was apparently the only one who could cure Inhumans of the Hive Sway, and now he is dead.

Of course, this just means that in the season finale, I'm assuming that it is set up for Princess Daisy to kill Hive.  Because she's special!  Gack.

[rab01]

It would have been SO easy to fix this episode and have it end in the exact same place:  Lash cuts a hole through SquidWard and saves Daisy just like he did; he then turns to make sure that SquidWard is dead and while he is bending over him, he gets the same fiery chain through his heart.  Boom, done. No need for special snowflakes, just as bittersweet and surprising, much less frustrating.

As for registration, I agree with Kitlee. The government is doing the exact same thing that SHIELD used to do and that SHIELD was going to do to Afterlife (after SHIELD had already proved to the world that it had been completely penetrated by HYDRA). The only reason they were arguing about it is that they wanted the two sides of Civil War to be represented in the TV show as well. I haven't seen the movie yet but I bet that the good guys in the movie end up being the ones against registration and that's the reason Coulson was against it and Talbot for it.  If the movie went the other way, Coulson and Talbot would have switched sides on the argument.  (It's exactly like the Lincoln-Daisy Debate earlier this season; the screenwriters wanted the argument and picked the sides at random.)

[benteen]

1 hour ago, maraleia said:

If they kill off Mack next week then this show will keep proving the point of this article https://thenerdsofcolor.org/2015/03/31/whats-the-deal-with-the-poc-characters-on-agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d/ when in comes to POC characters which is why I worry about any non-white characters other than May and Daisy at this point.

I'm not usually ones for these discussions but yeah...killing Mack would be bad for a variety of reasons, including the shows tendency to kill people of color.  Considering Bobbi and Hunter are now gone, killing Mack or killing May especially would be a deathblow for this show.  Unless they decide to bring on the Secret Warriors full-time (including boring Lincoln), Shield wouldn't have anyone to handle the action.

I would guess the Secret Warriors will be back in action in the season finale.  Otherwise, the team could really use some non-Inhuman muscle like Deathlok and Crusher Creel.

[xqueenfrostine]

6 hours ago, mrspidey said:

Uhm, you forgot Gemma's quote right after it. "That wasn't Lash."

And I'm strongly inclined to agree with her. When Lash saw Daisy, whatever was left of Andrew took over. Lash wouldn't let himself get killed that easily. 

So, no special snowflake. Just someome saving a friend. 

You're either missing or ignoring the context of Lincoln's quote though.  For half of a season, they've been playing with the idea that all inhumans get their particular powers for a reason.  That some grand design bestows specific powers to fill a specific need among inhumans.  Whether Lash was Lash or Andrew in that moment is a completely irrelevant point for what they're talking about because the point of contention was not why Lash chose to help Daisy.  Up until the moment, Lincoln assumed that Lash was created by the mysterious inhuman design as a tool to kill Hive, but has changed his mind since all Lash accomplished in his mission was to save Daisy and die.  Now, the inhuman myth/theory of intelligent design and fate may be bullshit, but it definitely seems like the show wants us to take it seriously.  And it seems to want us to take it seriously to make the moment where we discover Lash's power to remove Hive's sway from Daisy to pay off.  

[rubyred]

Of COURSE Lash "died to save Daisy." He was the Noble Savage.

So do today's TV writers not understand any one of these things: tropes, optics, stereotypes, TRIPE?!!

And having Lash actually be killed FROM BEHIND by that Aussie spaz we met like 3 episodes ago...really? That moron was able to best Lash, who up until now has been unstoppable? Someone left their cake out in the rain, because that was just weak.

And no spoilers, but

Spoiler

if you want to actually see authentic characters and relationships, see Civil War. I was amazed at how much better a movie that is jammed FULL of characters managed to balance all of the character's POVs and not stack the deck toward any one "snowflake." Opinions will vary, of course, but I thought the movie was amazingly well-balanced and the conflicts arose organically from character, not plot.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Agents Of SHIELD Deals With Traitors

If there are enough double agents and double-crosses, eventually something has to break SHIELD's way.

[mrspidey]

59 minutes ago, xqueenfrostine said:

You're either missing or ignoring the context of Lincoln's quote though.  For half of a season, they've been playing with the idea that all inhumans get their particular powers for a reason.  That some grand design bestows specific powers to fill a specific need among inhumans.  Whether Lash was Lash or Andrew in that moment is a completely irrelevant point for what they're talking about because the point of contention was not why Lash chose to help Daisy.  Up until the moment, Lincoln assumed that Lash was created by the mysterious inhuman design as a tool to kill Hive, but has changed his mind since all Lash accomplished in his mission was to save Daisy and die.  Now, the inhuman myth/theory of intelligent design and fate may be bullshit, but it definitely seems like the show wants us to take it seriously.  And it seems to want us to take it seriously to make the moment where we discover Lash's power to remove Hive's sway from Daisy to pay off.  

Just because an Inhuman is specifically designed to kill a specific other Inhuman doesn't mean he/she will. This sort of intelligent design is not clairvoyance, it's balance. 

Lash was clearly able to desintegrate the nanoorganisms that Hive is made out of. Thats the intelligent design. That's the hard counter to Hive. 

That Lash chose to use this skill on the nanoorganisms in Daisy's brain was his choice. You will never be able to convince me that the Kree somehow forsaw this situation millenia ago and laid the genetic groundwork for Lash just so he could save Daisy. That's completely ridiculous. 

Andrew making a choice based on his very human connection to Daisy not because she's special but because she was his friend is a much simpler explanation. 

 

. 

[kitlee625]

2 hours ago, xqueenfrostine said:

You're either missing or ignoring the context of Lincoln's quote though.  For half of a season, they've been playing with the idea that all inhumans get their particular powers for a reason.  That some grand design bestows specific powers to fill a specific need among inhumans.  Whether Lash was Lash or Andrew in that moment is a completely irrelevant point for what they're talking about because the point of contention was not why Lash chose to help Daisy.  Up until the moment, Lincoln assumed that Lash was created by the mysterious inhuman design as a tool to kill Hive, but has changed his mind since all Lash accomplished in his mission was to save Daisy and die.  Now, the inhuman myth/theory of intelligent design and fate may be bullshit, but it definitely seems like the show wants us to take it seriously.  And it seems to want us to take it seriously to make the moment where we discover Lash's power to remove Hive's sway from Daisy to pay off.  

I agree that the writers are laying it on heavily this idea of pre-destination and fate. Even back in season 2, they introduced Raina, who could see the future and used that power to see that her destiny was to die so that Daisy would turn back to SHIELD and away from Afterlife. Then we meet Charles, who can transmit visions of the future, and also has the destiny to die to save Daisy. And now Lash. This interview with Jed Whedon and Maurissa Tancharoen discusses the role of fate on the show (warning, it's also a little spoilery). But they do say that the Inhumans each have a purpose that they are powerless to resist.

Edited May 11, 2016 by kitlee625

[marceline]

Hey May, isn't it nice to know that the whole purpose in life of the man you loved was to save Daisy? Certainly that makes everything you and he suffered worth it. Sure, your husband was turned into a murdering mutant against his will and the life you though you might have after coming to terms with becoming the Cavalry went up into a cloud of smoke but Daisy's still here so I'm sure you're fine with that. I bet you'll have no problem working with her in the future.

I cosign what the review said about Mack's nicknames. Tremors, Sparks, whatever...stop it Mack because I'm about ten seconds from calling you "Punching Bag."

Edited May 11, 2016 by marceline

[ChelseaNH]

That was some epic trolling by the writers.  I'm sure there were high-fives when they came up with the idea.  But was there no one in the room who could say, "Okay, seriously?"

Mack makes everybody else better.  I'd like to think they're smart enough not to kill him off, but you never know with this show.  At this point, I no longer care.  Maybe I'll be interested again next week.

[romantic idiot]

6 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It was definitely Andrew who saved Daisy, in my opinion. The way he was caring for her and stroking her cheek before he got killed made it seem like he wasn't Lash in that moment, but a human being. Therefore, I do think Lash's purpose was to kill Hive, while Andrew's purpose was to save Daisy.

This reason makes me feel worse, because apparently, May wasn't enough to jolt Andrew out of Lash, but Daisy is. Seriously?

What is with the writers obsession with Daisy? Has the actress sent her own version of Hive parasites into the brains of the writers?

Edited May 11, 2016 by romantic idiot
Add more snark

[VCRTracking]

On the Sovokian Accords being somewhat different on AOS then it was in the Civil War, I can buy that there were articles pertaining to the registration of enhanced individuals(including Inhumans) in them, but just weren't dealt with in the movie. They were concerned more about the Avengers team having oversight. I'm sure though what the the world leaders had in mind when they drafted the Accords were the Avengers who had powers than those who are just normal or use equipment like Hawkeye or Rhodey and that extended to super powered people who weren't on the team.

Edited May 11, 2016 by VCRTracking

[SocaShoe]

6 minutes ago, romantic idiot said:

This reason makes me feel worse, because apparently, May wasn't enough to jolt Andrew out of Lash, but Daisy is. Seriously?

What is with the writers obsession with Daisy? Has the actress sent her own version of Hive parasites into the brains of the writers?

I don't get it. I know she was supposed to be one of the show's stars but I feel like there other actors on the show are actually more experienced and bring more to their roles, making me want to see what's going on with them and not her. I also get the allure of taking someone who's at the start of their career and being a part of their journey to a higher level of skill and recognition.  And if interviews are to be believed, I think Clark G. and the showrunners have been mentors to Chloe, giving them a strong personal relationship with her. She seems like a nice person.  But there's just always been something...missing...from her character or her performance. It's just not enough to carry the show for 22 episodes a year. I do blame the writers for trying to beat us over the head that Daisy is GREAT and she has a PURPOSE that's IMPORTANT. That doesn't make me want to watch her. Giving a character a compelling, sophisticated arc that allows he or she to truly develop with earned emotional breakthroughs that are enhanced by an actor's performance makes me want to watch someone. I feel like if they would just step back and let the show be an ensemble it would be better for every character, including Daisy. 

[kitlee625]

7 minutes ago, SocaShoe said:

I don't get it. I know she was supposed to be one of the show's stars but I feel like there other actors on the show are actually more experienced and bring more to their roles, making me want to see what's going on with them and not her. I also get the allure of taking someone who's at the start of their career and being a part of their journey to a higher level of skill and recognition.  And if interviews are to be believed, I think Clark G. and the showrunners have been mentors to Chloe, giving them a strong personal relationship with her. She seems like a nice person.  But there's just always been something...missing...from her character or her performance. It's just not enough to carry the show for 22 episodes a year. I do blame the writers for trying to beat us over the head that Daisy is GREAT and she has a PURPOSE that's IMPORTANT. That doesn't make me want to watch her. Giving a character a compelling, sophisticated arc that allows he or she to truly develop with earned emotional breakthroughs that are enhanced by an actor's performance makes me want to watch someone. I feel like if they would just step back and let the show be an ensemble it would be better for every character, including Daisy. 

Particularly because they have only two ways of beating us over the head that Daisy is GREAT: 1) Have someone (usually Coulson) give a long speech about how Daisy is the most talented person he's ever met, 2) have someone die to save her life because she's just that special (Agent Avery, Trip, Raina, Charles, Andrew). It's very heavy-handed, and IMHO poorly executed.

 

As a side note, does anyone else think it's weird that despite being told how talented she is, she's always being rescued. She rarely does the heroic acts herself. Like in The Team, her success at leading a team is completely undermined by the writers by having her mission fail so spectacularly -- she's infected by Hive, destroys the team's trust, and then destroys the base.

Edited May 11, 2016 by kitlee625

[SocaShoe]

4 minutes ago, kitlee625 said:

 

As a side note, does anyone else think it's weird that despite being told how talented she is, she's always being rescued. She rarely does the heroic acts herself. Like in The Team, her success at leading a team is completely undermined by the writers by having her mission fail so spectacularly -- she's infected by Hive, destroys the team's trust, and then destroys the base.

Yes. This is a really good point. 

[Sandman]

13 hours ago, mrspidey said:

Uhm, you forgot Gemma's quote right after it. "That wasn't Lash."

And I'm strongly inclined to agree with her. When Lash saw Daisy, whatever was left of Andrew took over. Lash wouldn't let himself get killed that easily. 

So, no special snowflake. Just someome saving a friend. 

Gemma's addendum there almost saved that cheesy sequence, but Lincoln's line was far, far too on the nose for me. I would have been mostly okay with the idea that Hive is harder to kill than most things, being a kind of networked or distributed monster. At least Lash seemed to be trying to kill Hive's main host (the Ward-body) and some of the satellites/kids.

8 hours ago, Bishop said:

I also noticed that [SquidWard] was wiling to sacrifice Daisy to get more blood for his primitive inhumans.  So his goal is all about him.

This is the part of the plan that made the least sense to me. If, after two years, Daisy has enough Kree mojo in her blood (still!) to create an army of primitive Inhumans, wouldn't it be in Hive's interest to keep her alive indefinitely to maintain a source of supply, rather than drain her dry at the next, one-time-only opportunity? I guess Evil Overlords don't really do long-term or succession planning all that well.

ETA: I think kitlee's point is very astute: Snowflake Daisy seems to be a classic example not only of telling over showing, but one where the showing actively contradicts the telling. 

ETA, also: Seriously, Mack, your nickname should be "Target."

Edited May 11, 2016 by Sandman

[xqueenfrostine]

12 hours ago, mrspidey said:

Andrew making a choice based on his very human connection to Daisy not because she's special but because she was his friend is a much simpler explanation. 

But not from a narrative perspective.  This isn't in-universe logic we're all talking about.  It's story telling logic.  When people complain about Special Snowflake Skye, we're not complaining about the internal logic of the MCU, we're complaining about writing choices.  You can hand wave about why Andrew's powers weren't all about Daisy, but clearly the reason the writers gave him these new powers that prior to this episode we had no reason to believe he had was so Andrew could sacrifice his life saving Daisy.   The writers telegraphed loud and clear that this was their purpose for Andrew.  And as Kitlee pointed out, Andrew is not the first character whose fate (as the writers explicitly tell us through character dialogue) was to die to save Daisy.  They used Raina in the exact same way last season.  This isn't a coincidence, it's a pattern.  That's what makes her the Specialest Snowflake.  

[thuganomics85]

So, after all the build up, Lash gets taken out with ease thanks to Hellfire/Australian guy, because he was too busy saving Daisy's sorry ass, instead of killing Hive like every one hoped.  Talk about anticlimactic.  And we barely even got a moment of seeing Melinda mourn him/Andrew, because she has no part in it, and it was all about Andrew's "relationship" with Daisy that caused Lash to snap out of his funk.  Again, whatever.  I usually like Daisy fine, but the show definitely has favorites.  I felt like everyone was way more concern over saving her, then Simmons getting stuck on another fucking planet (Fitz being the obvious exception.)  Shouldn't all the team members be treated equally?  Ha!

The tie-in with Civil War was decent enough at getting Talbot back into the picture, and giving the Inhumans side-eyes.  I know he's kind of a prick at times, but I really do love him and the conflict he brings whenever he shows up.

I totally fell for Lincoln's act.  Well done, buddy!

Basically Hive just wants to create a bunch of mindless zombie drones, that will do his bidding.  I love that part of the reason that Dr. Radcliffe is against this is because he believes this makes him look bad.  Way to keep that ego in check, Doctor!

The Peggy Carter obituary was a nice touch.  It's too bad that show is less then likely to comeback.

Mack getting the cross makes me think he is totally a red herring, and someone else is going to be the big death.  I certainly hope it isn't him, but you can never tell with this show.

Two hour finale next week!  Is it too late for them to try and pick up Bobbi and Hunter again, now that their spin-off is currently on shaky ground, too?

[OakGoblinFly]

14 hours ago, romantic idiot said:

This reason makes me feel worse, because apparently, May wasn't enough to jolt Andrew out of Lash, but Daisy is. Seriously?

What is with the writers obsession with Daisy? Has the actress sent her own version of Hive parasites into the brains of the writers?

Pictures, she has to have pictures of someone doing somthing they shouldn't.

I wouldn't mind the "specialness" of Daisy if it didn't come with stupid plot points and at the expense of other characters - really, most of this season it seems like the ONLY reason Mack is around to to prop up Daisy.

On 5/11/2016 at 6:11 AM, mrspidey said:

Uhm, you forgot Gemma's quote right after it. "That wasn't Lash."

And I'm strongly inclined to agree with her. When Lash saw Daisy, whatever was left of Andrew took over. Lash wouldn't let himself get killed that easily. 

So, no special snowflake. Just someome saving a friend. 

If it is true that Daisy being in mortal danger (yet again*) managed to snap Andrew out of his Lash-ness, that makes it so much WORSE because of Daisy's special snowflake-ness was able to “save” Andrew when his WIFE’S love couldn’t.

 

*And how is it that Coulson’s “best and brightest” field agent always manages to get in so much trouble that all these men have to keep rescuing her?

[mac123x]

Mack getting the cross makes me think he is totally a red herring, and someone else is going to be the big death.  I certainly hope it isn't him, but you can never tell with this show.

I thought I glimpsed Fitz holding the cross at one point in the promo for next week.  I'm guessing that they'll play hot potato with it.

[Raja]

Since we have seen Elena, Mack and thanks to the promo monkey Fritz with the cross I figure them as misdirects. May still sits as my death pool choice over Simmons

[romantic idiot]

Yeah, I'm hoping it's Daisy but am deathly afraid it's May. Which would be a shame because they'd lose their biggest name. (Bless him but Clark Gregg is nowhere as big as Ming Na Wen). 

17 hours ago, kitlee625 said:

Particularly because they have only two ways of beating us over the head that Daisy is GREAT: 1) Have someone (usually Coulson) give a long speech about how Daisy is the most talented person he's ever met, 2) have someone die to save her life because she's just that special (Agent Avery, Trip, Raina, Charles, Andrew). It's very heavy-handed, and IMHO poorly executed.

 

As a side note, does anyone else think it's weird that despite being told how talented she is, she's always being rescued. She rarely does the heroic acts herself. Like in The Team, her success at leading a team is completely undermined by the writers by having her mission fail so spectacularly -- she's infected by Hive, destroys the team's trust, and then destroys the base.

I think I somewhat follow the logic of why Daisy keeps being the damsel in distress. They figure that Daisy, being the special snowflake, is the one with the relationships with most of them, that most of them will mourn, so to raise the in-story stakes they keep putting her in danger. But that only works if the character in question is equally beloved of the audience as the characters (e.g. I could get get why Buffy would die for Willow, but not so much for Dawn, except at an intellectual level). Oh well. While i love this show and it is loads better, the character of Daisy still triggers my Smash PTSD. 

[Watcher0363]

The writers do not have an easy job when it comes to the Inhuman story line. They are pulling processes and procedures from the Marvel Universe. Which most people know nothing about. After watching Guardians of the Galaxy, which I did not quite get. I read an overview on the Inhuman universe. All I can say is that it is highly possible that over 10000 years ago some great Kree intelligence either saw the the events of today or through a very sophisticated algorithm got an overall view of where the planet earth would be at certain age points in its history. The Inhuman's could be genetically modified along the lines of the insect world. Where it produces what ever type of workers it needs to sustain itself. It was clear that Daisy's mom was royalty of some kind. Most of the Inhumans changed or not, followed her lead. It is highly possible that Daisy is a pheromone based Queen. In the sci fi world we all know how the bodies pile up, from falling on swords or jumping on grenades, to save the pheromonal Queens.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Watcher0363

[TVSpectator]

13 hours ago, mac123x said:

 

I thought I glimpsed Fitz holding the cross at one point in the promo for next week.  I'm guessing that they'll play hot potato with it.

 

 

 

That is probably how they are going to keep us guessing who is going to die. 

 

On another note, I have a question: If Hive in the comics, is able to control/possess more than person at a time, (or dead body, I am not entirely sure if in the comics Hive can only control the dead or not) then why has this version only has control over Ward's dead corpse and not someone else's corpse at the same time? Can't he do it? 

Edited May 13, 2016 by TVSpectator

[VCRTracking]

It's now clear AOS is Little House on the Prairie, with Daisy as Laura "Halfpint" Ingalls and Coulson as Charles "Pa" Ingalls. Everyone else is going to die, go blind or get raped by a mime but those two are going to be okay.

It was a shame that Lash snapped her out of it because in the moments where Daisy was under HIVE's possession Chloe really was great. She's had her moments before like when she found out Ward was Hydra but these past few episodes impressed me how much fanaticism she had while still retaining her old personality. What I learned from Arrow was to not blame the actress because when it's good she's able to shine and when it's bad she looks worse. Emily Bett Rickards as Felicity for the first two seasons was the best but then the writing for her character went awry with seasons 3 and 4. Whereas the character of Laurel Lance from the beginning was just badly written and the actress Katie Cassidy just looked like the worst casting history. It was only until her final few episodes before she was killed off that she was finally seemed written correctly.

Edited May 13, 2016 by VCRTracking

[kitlee625]

20 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

It was a shame that Lash snapped her out of it because in the moments where Daisy was under HIVE's possession Chloe really was great. She's had her moments before like when she found out Ward was Hydra but these past few episodes impressed me how much fanaticism she had while still retaining her old personality.

Agreed. Hived-Daisy was awesome, and I found her a lot more interesting than regular Daisy. I also thought she was more interesting than most of the antagonists they've had on the show.

[LilJen]

So, not sure I buy that Lash can be felled by one whip from Fiery Whip Guy. He's killed how many people and Inhumans and cured Daisy of the Hive virus?

BTW, if they do NOT harvest something from Lash's dead body to fight the Hive virus SHIELD is very, very stupid.

[Jack Kerouac]

1 hour ago, LilJen said:

So, not sure I buy that Lash can be felled by one whip from Fiery Whip Guy. He's killed how many people and Inhumans and cured Daisy of the Hive virus?

BTW, if they do NOT harvest something from Lash's dead body to fight the Hive virus SHIELD is very, very stupid.

But we know that they are. How many times have they locked someone up without putting a guard or camera there?

[LilJen]

Good point. They have shown over and over that they are monstrously stupid :)

[Bishop]

On 5/12/2016 at 5:43 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I totally fell for Lincoln's act.  Well done, buddy!

In rewatching the episode, I was trying to determine if all of Lincoln's actions were an act regarding the animosity with him, Coulson and May.  He said to the group that he knew Daisy was fully under Hive's sway and that she was lying about being the person who would meet him at the plane.  When Mack said to him that he can't know that Lash won't hurt Daisy, Lincoln said it was a chance they had to take, which implies that he's willing to risk Daisy for the great good, which is a change for Lincoln.  Now it may just be the writers moving to correct some character motivations in Lincoln regarding Daisy (which I am happy about), but I'm trying to determine WHEN Coulson or May approached Lincoln with the plan or vice versa and how long this deception was going on.  Lincoln said that they knew Daisy was watching and listening the whole time.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Bishop

[DeLurker]

I'd be ok if it was May who dies if Ming Na Wen wanted off the show; otherwise I would not be okay with it.

Daisy is like Matt Damon in that he's always being saved/retrieved in the movies.

[romantic idiot]

Not really because I think 'Saving Private Ryan', 'The Martian' and 'Good Will Hunting' all showed amply why Matt's characters needed to be saved. And Chloe Bennett is no Matt Damon. She's more like whatserface from 'Sleepy Hollow'. 

Back to the episode, I haven't made up my mind if I'm shipping Elene and Mac or not. I mean they are so good together. but I don't want them to develop angst. 

[rab01]

41 minutes ago, romantic idiot said:

 Back to the episode, I haven't made up my mind if I'm shipping Elene and Mac or not. I mean they are so good together. but I don't want them to develop angst. 

Those two really are so very good together without much in the way of memorable dialogue to set it up. It's pretty much all in the actors' performances.

On the snowflake question, I don't dislike the Daisy character (I'm not super-impressed by the actress but I don't hate her either) but the show keeps sabotaging her by treating Daisy as the star, rather than a member of the ensemble. Getting Daisy back should be as important to the team as getting back Simmons and when the show makes the characters treat it differently, it throws me out of the show. 

Skye's original function was to be audience surrogate and the recipient of exposition-dumps. They were smart enough to know that she couldn't stay that and changed her role so why aren't they smart enough to realize that the show shouldn't sing the character's praises? We as an audience would side with her more if she was being unfairly criticized in-show,  (Again, Marvel is smart enough to know this; look at what they did in the first season of Agent Carter.)

[Enigma X]

I also don't hate or love Daisy, but I cannot deny that she is treated special in the show.

As far as who dies, Daisy or May are really the only two that I will be ok with losing.

[hello]

Now that ABC has passed on airing the Marvel's Most Wanted spinoff, do you think the person on the exploding Quinjet might be Bobbi or ... Shady English Dude Whose Name Escapes Me Right Now?

[Terrafamilia]

So the ancient Kree took ancient humans and turned them into vessels for the mystical Speed For...I mean Terragen Force? Andrew was Terragened back sometime before "Laws of Nature." How were the crystals to know that Hive was going to soon be making it back to Earth finally after all these millennia?

[xqueenfrostine]

1 hour ago, hello said:

Now that ABC has passed on airing the Marvel's Most Wanted spinoff, do you think the person on the exploding Quinjet might be Bobbi or ... Shady English Dude Whose Name Escapes Me Right Now?

No chance.  I'm sure the finale was shot and finalized before Marvel's Most Wanted was officially cancelled.  

I will be really annoyed if May dies.  Not only has she been one of my favorite characters since the pilot, but Agents of SHIELD already has kind of a reputation for frequently maiming/killing off persons of color.     

2 minutes ago, Terrafamilia said:

So the ancient Kree took ancient humans and turned them into vessels for the mystical Speed For...I mean Terragen Force? Andrew was Terragened back sometime before "Laws of Nature." How were the crystals to know that Hive was going to soon be making it back to Earth finally after all these millennia?

LOL try not to overthink it.  The show's theory of Inhuman Intelligent design is clearly religious nonsense masquerading as science.  I love Marvel, but their trope of "it's not magic, it's science!" has always been one of the weaker parts of their universe.  Occasionally they do it right, but half of the time they're barely trying.

[romantic idiot]

9 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

So the ancient Kree took ancient humans and turned them into vessels for the mystical Speed For...I mean Terragen Force? Andrew was Terragened back sometime before "Laws of Nature." How were the crystals to know that Hive was going to soon be making it back to Earth finally after all these millennia?

I thought that the crystals ensured that there was one of every "type" of Inhuman always available. So one Lash dies and another is born. Now how they make that out, I don't know. 

9 hours ago, xqueenfrostine said:

I will be really annoyed if May dies.  Not only has she been one of my favorite characters since the pilot, but Agents of SHIELD already has kind of a reputation for frequently maiming/killing off persons of color.     

Unfortunately, unless they kill off Simmons, the rest of them are WOC, so this will be a problem whosoever they kill off. So I hope they kill off the one who is everyone's beloved - Daisy - for the maximum effect. 

[TVSpectator]

2 hours ago, romantic idiot said:

Unfortunately, unless they kill off Simmons, the rest of them are WOC, so this will be a problem whosoever they kill off. So I hope they kill off the one who is everyone's beloved - Daisy - for the maximum effect. 

 

 

 

1

I really hoping that May makes it out alive. She is literally the only character that I like on this show and would keep watching. I can live without Fitz, Coulson, Mack, Daisy, Joey, Lincoln, SquidWard, and Elena. Although, I do think that it would be a great idea to see how Simmons deals with losing Fitz. Lately, we have been watching Fitz's pain but I would like to see some of Simmon's pain just to see how the character deals with loss and grief (and no, IMO, Will wasn't a really great example because she was like over his death in like 3-4 months). Also, I am not really buying that Simmons all of a sudden loves Fitz. It's just, IMO, weird and too obvious for a Whedon to do and I wonder if she is being controlled and/or was taken over by something?

Edited May 14, 2016 by TVSpectator

[xqueenfrostine]

3 hours ago, romantic idiot said:

Unfortunately, unless they kill off Simmons, the rest of them are WOC, so this will be a problem whosoever they kill off. So I hope they kill off the one who is everyone's beloved - Daisy - for the maximum effect. 

Did I miss something?  I didn't think it was established that the person set to die is female.  I would cry zero tears if it was Daisy who died, but my personal vote is for Lincoln.  I know his death wouldn't be as meaningful as one of the original cast, but I don't care.  I hate this trope of killing off a popular character for shock value anyway.

As for the possibility of it being either Fitz or Simmons who dies, that would make this the third finale in a row that ended with one of them in serious peril so I hope they don't go in that direction.  It's someone else's turn.

[TVSpectator]

1 hour ago, xqueenfrostine said:

Did I miss something?  I didn't think it was established that the person set to die is female.  I would cry zero tears if it was Daisy who died, but my personal vote is for Lincoln.  I know his death wouldn't be as meaningful as one of the original cast, but I don't care.  I hate this trope of killing off a popular character for shock value anyway.

As for the possibility of it being either Fitz or Simmons who dies, that would make this the third finale in a row that ended with one of them in serious peril so I hope they don't go in that direction.  It's someone else's turn.

 

Yeah, I would rather have Fitz dying and/or becoming the new human host for Hive. I doubt that it will happen but I won't shed any tears if it is Daisy. 

[hello]

LOL just realized that Lash was killed with a ... lash. And right through the same part of the chest where Lash used to kill others! Ah, sweet irony.

I wonder if that was on purpose though? I doubt it, because the writers do this...

Quote

I hate this trope of killing off a popular character for shock value anyway.

Yeah, its become the laziest story-telling fall back I've ever seen. Wrath Of Khan did killing a main character right; so did Psycho. But its only a valuable plot point if used sparingly, and with greater story purpose in mind.

This shit's just lazy, lazy, lazy. It's link-bait in televised form.

Edited May 15, 2016 by hello

[maczero]

If someone has to die, then I vote for Lincoln.  I don't hate the character but I'm invested in him the least.  His power is kinda boring and he hasn't contributed much to the story other than being Daisy's love interest.

If we have to lose an original cast member then I'd prefer it's May.  I really like Ming Na Wen but May's character has been so one note that I found the character boring.

[Raja]

On 5/13/2016 at 6:34 PM, kitlee625 said:

Agreed. Hived-Daisy was awesome, and I found her a lot more interesting than regular Daisy. I also thought she was more interesting than most of the antagonists they've had on the show.

I remember the same was said about Ward after the Hydra reveal. Speaking of which Brett did give his only flash of fear as Hive when he saw Lash coming out of the quinjet. They made sure not to use the superhero three point landing when Lash jumped from the hanger deck to attack

[AKA...CJ86]

Loved the episode...loved the zombie Inhumans, again loved everything.  Almost everything, The episode was going so well...until Lash was the chosen one to save Daisy...

[HawaiiTVGuy]

On 5/11/2016 at 6:11 AM, rab01 said:

It would have been SO easy to fix this episode and have it end in the exact same place:  Lash cuts a hole through SquidWard and saves Daisy just like he did; he then turns to make sure that SquidWard is dead and while he is bending over him, he gets the same fiery chain through his heart.  Boom, done. No need for special snowflakes, just as bittersweet and surprising, much less frustrating.

As for registration, I agree with Kitlee. The government is doing the exact same thing that SHIELD used to do and that SHIELD was going to do to Afterlife (after SHIELD had already proved to the world that it had been completely penetrated by HYDRA). The only reason they were arguing about it is that they wanted the two sides of Civil War to be represented in the TV show as well. I haven't seen the movie yet but I bet that the good guys in the movie end up being the ones against registration and that's the reason Coulson was against it and Talbot for it.  If the movie went the other way, Coulson and Talbot would have switched sides on the argument.  (It's exactly like the Lincoln-Daisy Debate earlier this season; the screenwriters wanted the argument and picked the sides at random.)

I could be mistaken, but after Lash removed the nano-parasites from Skye, I don't think Hive was among the bodies on the ground, I think he had regained enough strength to make it out of the room, so Lash didn't have a chance to immediately finish him off. 

 

On 5/11/2016 at 11:17 AM, romantic idiot said:

This reason makes me feel worse, because apparently, May wasn't enough to jolt Andrew out of Lash, but Daisy is. Seriously?

What is with the writers obsession with Daisy? Has the actress sent her own version of Hive parasites into the brains of the writers?

I don't think Lash was really all Lash in spite of his appearance.  Would a normal Lash (not talked down by May) have just been calmly sitting in the cell?  And May was the one that was able to bring Lash to the quinjet for the mission.

On 5/11/2016 at 11:01 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

My main takeaway from this episode was, "Peggy Carter is dead? Nooooooooo!" I mean, I know the article said she was 95 but still!

I know that Hive is the bad guy in all of this, but I had to laugh when he specifically targeted the fanatical inhuman haters to turn into inhumans.

As soon as Lash turned to help Daisy, I was yelling, "Don't turn your back on Hive!" I expected Lash to get decapitated, electrocuted, shot, or otherwise killed while he was kneeling down next to her.

I am fine with people believing that they have a purpose, but to project that kind of fatalistic crap onto someone else? I can't believe that Andrew's sole purpose in life was to save Daisy. Give me a fucking break!

Kind of typical of network TV that isn't named Criminal Minds, have something horrible happen to people that you show that are bad, thus easier for audiences to stomach.

 

Anyone else confused why Talbot keeps thinking that a registration would prevent Hive from brain-washing all the Inhumans?  Seriously, how does that help at all?

And I know there are people frustrated by Skye's "specialness" on the show, but from I have researched (not being a big comic book guy myself), Skye is actually a big part of the MCU, so if you have complaints about Skye's "specialness" you should take it up with Marvel in general, and not the show.

On 5/13/2016 at 3:39 PM, LilJen said:

So, not sure I buy that Lash can be felled by one whip from Fiery Whip Guy. He's killed how many people and Inhumans and cured Daisy of the Hive virus?

BTW, if they do NOT harvest something from Lash's dead body to fight the Hive virus SHIELD is very, very stupid.

Did they actually show what happened to Lash's body.  I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to figure something out, considering they were hopeful that Creel, the true "Anti-Inhuman" or whatever would provide the vaccine to cure Inhumans.  It would be very unlike FitzSimmons not to be doing some sort of biopsy/autopsy of Lash to see what he has that other Inhumans do not have.

[rab01]

23 minutes ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

I could be mistaken, but after Lash removed the nano-parasites from Skye, I don't think Hive was among the bodies on the ground, I think he had regained enough strength to make it out of the room, so Lash didn't have a chance to immediately finish him off.

That would've been fine too -- Lash goes in pursuit of Hive and when he catches up to Hive and is facing him, Lash still gets the chain through the heart. All I'm saying is that you can get the same exact result without setting it up to look like Lash was overly focused on a non-combatant (Daisy).

[John Potts]

I'm worried the show is being a bit too subtle for me - couldn't we have the anti-Inhuman group dress their hideout with Swastikas and throw out a few Racist/Sexist/Homophobic slurs so we're sure they're bad guys? And maybe we could have May comforting Daisy by telling her that although the love of her life just died, it was worth it because he saved her? I mean, if the show doesn't pound in with a sledgehammer what THE RIGHT THING TO DO is, how will us poor viewers know? As for the Sokovia Accords,

I get that the MCU wants to say the Pro-Regs are "wrong" - ironically, the opposite of the comic book storyline! - but I can't see that a group going "We shouldn't be bound by any rules" are automatically correct, because

that's usually a villain stance and the only way it seems even vaguely heroic is because the government response is both utterly incompetent and totally fascistic (like General Talbot here)

(it's not really that much of a spoiler, but it's partly based on Civil War).

Quote

mac123x "Lash's purpose wasn't to kill Hive... It was to save Daisy" oh FUCK OFF show.  Special Snowflake status: Confirmed.

It wasn't even necessary - they could have had Coulson say that he'd sent Lash to kill Hive with rescuing Daisy as a secondary objective, but that maybe with Daisy they've discovered a means to "cure" Inhumans of the Hive infection.

Quote

 

thuganomics85 Basically Hive just wants to create a bunch of mindless zombie drones, that will do his bidding.  I love that part of the reason that Dr. Radcliffe is against this is because he believes this makes him look bad.  Way to keep that ego in check, Doctor!

 

I did like that while Dr Radcliffe is working for Hive, he's upset not that his work is killing people but that it is so sloppy!