S08.E05: Birthday Bashing

[msblossom]

On 5/6/2016 at 8:36 AM, eurekagirl mOo said:

Uh Jules? You were already a bitch when you referred to the others as "elderly", you didn't need to add your "old" money...because your not! Your greasy little husband made his bucks in porn......And your having a bigger house just makes you an idiot, not better. Who the hell wants to live in a mall? I'll take Bethannys house (either one) any day .

This is news to me, a venture capitalist in porn? Do tell.

[breezy424]

The problem with Beth's mention of JonBenet Ramsey was that she was trying to make a joke.   'She hasn't reached JonBenet world'.  It wasn't funny. 

It's one thing to do a series based on Jon Benet's world: Child beauty pageants and the tragic story of what happened to this child.  It's another to use this child who was murdered for joking sarcasm.

[jaync]

Quote

Why does someone need to step up to Bethenny?

Why does Bethenny need to step on everyone?

Quote

When references are made to child beauty pageants is their any other name in the common lexicon other than Jon Benet? 

Honey Boo Boo?

[ElDosEquis]

11 hours ago, msblossom said:

This is news to me, a venture capitalist in porn? Do tell.

Probably invested in the internet part of porn - He's not the actual photographer, merely the guy that invests in the servers/computer part of it.

[Bronzedog]

I'm liking Jules a little more than I did initially, but, I've known some Jewish people for 50 years that have mentioned they're Jewish less than Jules has so far this season.

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, jaync said:

Why does Bethenny need to step on everyone?

Honey Boo Boo?

I never knew the kid was in beauty pageants.  I thought it was a show about her trashy family.  So I would not have gotten a Honey Boo Boo reference.  Is it a show worth watching?  Is it even still on -I thought there was a child molester in the midst and the show cancelled.

[Almost 3000]

44 minutes ago, Bronzedog said:

I'm liking Jules a little more than I did initially, but, I've known some Jewish people for 50 years that have mentioned they're Jewish less than Jules has so far this season.

I like Jules but she's painfully dim and easily flustered by the others behavior. Dorinda was right she's still "hopeful" and I think she's also basically nice and only makes comments after she hears what the others have said. She, to her detriment, also doesn't have a great grasp on the meaning of words. I think she meant mature and said "elderly" and has put her foot in her mouth in other unintentional ways.

[BigMamaThorton]

I can't help but remember Gillian Flynn's description of "The Cool Girl" in her novel Gone Girl when watching Carole of late. 

 

Quote

“Men always say that as the defining compliment, don’t they? She’s a cool girl. Being the Cool Girl means I am a hot, brilliant, funny woman who adores football, poker, dirty jokes, and burping, who plays video games, drinks cheap beer, loves threesomes and anal sex, and jams hot dogs and hamburgers into her mouth like she’s hosting the world’s biggest culinary gang bang while somehow maintaining a size 2, because Cool Girls are above all hot. Hot and understanding. Cool Girls never get angry; they only smile in a chagrined, loving manner and let their men do whatever they want. Go ahead, shit on me, I don’t mind, I’m the Cool Girl."  

I should hasten to add that I'm often left wondering what happened to her identity?  Perhaps the first few season's cool girl was the facade, and who she really is, these years later, is just now surfacing?  Disappointing to find we as women are as susceptible as men these boxed categories and painfully astute cliches, no? 

[Diane Mars]

2 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

I never knew the kid was in beauty pageants.  I thought it was a show about her trashy family.  So I would not have gotten a Honey Boo Boo reference.  Is it a show worth watching?  Is it even still on -I thought there was a child molester in the midst and the show cancelled.

To summarize, Alana (Honey Boo Boo) was in Toddlers and Tiaras and get her spin off, which was "Here comes Honey Boo Boo".

[ghoulina]

On 5/7/2016 at 10:47 AM, zoeysmom said:

Law & Order SVU aired the other day and they referenced the child who was in child pageants as Jon Benet.  I am quite certain they were not trying to be insensitive.  I took Bethenny's reference to mean a child with an overly involved wardrobe.  I don't think she was suggesting anything else or that many cared about the reference.  When references are made to child beauty pageants is their any other name in the common lexicon other than Jon Benet? 

I saw it that way as well. I get offended easily at comments involving children, but that reference didn't really bother me.

Edited May 8, 2016 by ghoulina

[jaync]

Quote

 II thought it was a show about her trashy family. 

Yeah, that's probably how most people view HBB. Just as I imagine most think of JBR foremost as a child who was murdered in her family's home. (Or, maybe that's just me.)

Edited May 9, 2016 by jaync

[RHJunkie]

22 hours ago, jaync said:

Why does Bethenny need to step on everyone?

Honey Boo Boo?

That's Bethenny's personality. Doesn't make it nice but the one thing I can say about Bethenny is that I think we see the real thing on screen - no frills or sugar coating. She seems completely authentic with her behaviour and her opinions (often provided by her own will and not by request) seem organic rather than manufactured for the cameras. Bethenny has the tough cookie image and either she doesn't know or doesn't care to learn how to tone it down when around others for the sake of making them feel more comfortable. Bethenny doesn't seem like the type to do the 'right' thing that's expected but rather stays true to herself even if it is rude - case in point, when John showed up to her birthday party, she wasn't rude enough to ask him to leave, but she didn't bother to fake the pleasantries by greeting him or welcoming him to her home either. Bethenny offending people wouldn't be such a big deal if she were surrounding by women who had the confidence and personality to give it right back to her. Right now, we have women that either kiss her ass or get offended by her commentary. Heather is the closest thing we've gotten on this show that was willing to go toe to toe with Bethenny but even then, Heather took exception and got offended very easily.

[Gaily]

At least Heather was the only one with enough balls to go toe-to-toe with Bethenny -- the others just fawn or cower in fear over her.  I miss "Holla" -- she was smart,outspoken and a take-no-prisoners type of person. I agree with the other posters who liked the friendship between Heather and Carole too -- Carole seemed much nicer and more genuine when she was with Heather.  

[ZaldamoWilder]

On 5/5/2016 at 4:54 PM, SnarkKitty said:

I have nothing to add to this. In the spirit of RaBethLu, I'm just here to lord my good fortune over others, having experienced said kees in person. Hilarity always ensues.

the South African judge gives this one hip bump and a full curtsy.  ;)

On 5/6/2016 at 7:20 AM, Gaily said:

I apologize if this has been covered before but I am in love with Bethenny's dog, Cookie. The dog is just adorable and I would be happy to see more of her. I am glad that we don't see her daughter, Brin. As Trooper  York pointed out, either Bethenny or Jason are shielding their little girl from the reality show drama and I think that is very healthy.  Oh and Cookie for President!

On another note, what is going on with Sonja's makeup?  Normally I find her very lovely but her face is super shiny, the bronzer looks like it was applied with a cement trowel and her lips look gray.  She is also wearing overly prim clothing from Ralph Lauren's schoolmarm collection from 1984. Not digging it.  While Ramona looks great (she either has a fabulous dermatologist or the fountain of youth has been drained into her Pinot Grigio bottles), her makeup is awfully heavy. Wearing false eyelashes during the daytime only works for Liza Minnelli and Miss Piggy.

I know that there is a big debate about Carole's looks -- I think she's quite good looking in an exotic way.  Loved seeing her badges from ABC News.  And she and Jules have really mastered a soft daytime makeup -- very natural and flattering in the daylight.

Think Bethenny is crushing it in the wardrobe department.  She looks great in every scene. Love her or hate her, girlfriend looks fabulous and this is the best she has ever looked -- especially when you compare it to the flashbacks we see of her in 2010.

LOL!!   There's a day lash and night lash, she just may not wanna be bothered going back and forth.  But girl goo pots aside, I'm convinced Miss Mona is Dorian Gray.  Little sis came in during my rewatch and I said how old do you think that lady is?  Without hesitation she said 55 (in reference to Sonja).  I said not her, the woman she's talking to.  She said a *good* 39, mmmaybe 45 with work.  I said she damb near bout 60.  She froze frame Ramona's TH and studied her neck, turned back to me and goes: she black?   Lol. I said not as far as we know.  She said: Park Ave dermatology? I said that'd be my guess.  She said how old is the one that looks like a vaudeville cigarette girl?  I said you were right the first time I think she is 55, but she partied with John John so she should look like that.

So speaking of speaking ill of the dead....rewatch was the first I'd seen of B's JonBenet comment.   I get what ya'll are saying about how disrespectfully that could be taken.  But when I heard it in context?  I think what she meant was Brynn's wardrobe and all things pink buttons and bows has not reached tiara child beauty pageant proportions.  That and what she's said about Honey Boo Boo was absolutely a dig, sure.  From the condescension she has for sexualizing and parading little girls in ridiculous costumes on a public stage, not from a lemme see how I can insult a baby who was murdered perspective.  It was clear she was using this as a way to describe that Brynn's level of girliness was still at a *reasonable* level.   Beth can be an asshole and I'm not particularly enjoying the biting her sense of humor has taken this season but I didn't see her choice of words the way many of ya'll have interpreted it. 

Luann needs to stop drinking.   It's not that she's a size 8 in a sea of 0s, she looks like she stopped giving a damn and that it has all shown up in her face.  And at our (her/my) age, whatever was fine 20 years before just isn't gonna keep working like it used to.   Say what you want about Ramona's drinking, she don't miss a day at the gym or the face doctor.   Cash flow might be different but I still think she's well above the standard of living, even for NYC.   Child support continues until your youngest is 23 unless they're not enrolled full time in college.  Even if it's stopped, I doubt it would've affected her adversely, Noel and that other one went to some ritzy and expensive private schools in the city, she was using child support to support the children.   I also can't imagine she's blown through whatever lump sum alimony settlement there was. 

[Higgins]

On ‎5‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 9:47 AM, JenFromCincy said:

I don't know anyone who's done testosterone therapy, but your post intrigued me so I googled side effects.  They may include: hair growth on the face or body, hair loss on the scalp, oily skin or acne, hoarseness or deepening of the voice, fluid retention, and diminished breast size.   Seems like you were spot on with why she's looking so bad.  They said it's generally used on women who are experiencing surgical or regular menopause, or sexual drive issues.

I don't know,  smoking will do all that too and we know she smokes.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Higgins

[archer1267]

Quote

I should hasten to add that I'm often left wondering what happened to her identity?  Perhaps the first few season's cool girl was the facade, and who she really is, these years later, is just now surfacing?

Full disclosure: I've always liked Carole but this season she's starting to bug me. Even though I like her, I don't think she's good reality TV material (not a slam as I wouldn't want anything to do with Ramona in real life, but have to admit that she makes for awesome TV). And I admit, it can be hard to reconcile the woman who comes from working-class Italian stock and knows how to bait a hook without squealing with the woman who has a separate life in Beverly Hills (not some hip, or low-key L.A. suburb, but Beverly Hills). I think Carole would be enjoyable to talk to 1:1, and she's had an interesting career outside of What Remains, but the show's not conducive for her to talk about, say, her investigative work around landmines.

[jinjer]

4 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

That's Bethenny's personality. Doesn't make it nice but the one thing I can say about Bethenny is that I think we see the real thing on screen - no frills or sugar coating. She seems completely authentic with her behaviour and her opinions (often provided by her own will and not by request) seem organic rather than manufactured for the cameras. Bethenny has the tough cookie image and either she doesn't know or doesn't care to learn how to tone it down when around others for the sake of making them feel more comfortable. Bethenny doesn't seem like the type to do the 'right' thing that's expected but rather stays true to herself even if it is rude - case in point, when John showed up to her birthday party, she wasn't rude enough to ask him to leave, but she didn't bother to fake the pleasantries by greeting him or welcoming him to her home either. Bethenny offending people wouldn't be such a big deal if she were surrounding by women who had the confidence and personality to give it right back to her. Right now, we have women that either kiss her ass or get offended by her commentary. Heather is the closest thing we've gotten on this show that was willing to go toe to toe with Bethenny but even then, Heather took exception and got offended very easily.

I generally agree; however, Bethenny hid a lot of her private life last season while playing poor homeless, sexless me. So she's not as candid or real as she proclaims to be.  

Plus this season, she saved a lot of tidbits from the Hamptons and introduced them in a contrived way so that the audience/show would have artificial drama - The Dorinda/John todo in the Hamptons over the summer that may/not have involved John OR Bethenny saying something about Hannah that got Dorinda into a spitting mad state (and we know she was spitting while she was slurring). And bringing up that Luann wanted to be invited to the Kyle dinner even though Bethenny had seen Luann in the mean time and could've hashed out that issue with Luann.  Bethenny claims she hates when HWs bring up topics just to cause drama.  But here are two instances where she did it herself.

[Boofish]

On 5/5/2016 at 11:21 PM, Misslindsey said:

I am right there with you. I find Bethenny amusing and she is one of my favorites too. I do not take every comment she makes seriously and like her sarcasm. I tend to lurk more in this thread, because I thought I was at a table for one with me liking Bethenny. I agree that Carol is not up Bethenny's ass. I think Carol has no problem telling people she does not agree with them. If she is friends with someone she can approach it in a calm manner one on one and not in a group setting. Now if she isn't really friends with a person I do not think she cares that much.

Can everything John related be done with? Please?

I pretty much like all these ladies. They all have their faults, but overall I do kind of like them all.

Yeah, I like Bethenny as well but I tend to give people I find funny a bit more rope. Her representing Jules in the "Jules v Bethenny" argument gave me life! The phrase is old and tired but out of alllll the HW across every franchise Bethanny seriously does OWN HER SHIT!  This show would not be the least bit funny without her

I also agree that Carole is just a loyal friend the same as she was to Heather. I think it looks like butt kissing because people don't like B. Most women could use a friend like Carole. I haven't heard B talk any crap about Carole either so I think it's a real friendship

Edited May 9, 2016 by Boofish

[ryebread]

13 minutes ago, Boofish said:

I also agree that Carole is just a loyal friend the same as she was to Heather. I think it looks like butt kissing because people don't like B.

I think she's a butt kisser. I thought she kissed Heather's butt and people loved Heather. 

Carole has always seemed like she would slip into whatever personality suited whomever she was sidling up next to.  I cannot stand Bethenny's voice or mouth but I would prefer spending a day with her over Carole. I'd pop a Xanax and hope for the best.

With Carole the Xanax would be wasted.  I'd just go to sleep.  Without the antics of Beth and Heather, she is milquetoast that doesn't seem to have any drive to do anything or go anywhere. Her dog is cute though.  I'd take Baby for a walk.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

It so true. Carole was interesting when she came on and Princess outranked the countess. And there is the enigma of being BFFs with JFK Jr & his wife. Lee Radziwill's tiger couch. Yes yes. Then it was a good foil to Luann when she started dating the help- Luann's niece's sloppy seconds.

But up Bethenny's butt and mean girl? No thanks. This is her last season I predict. 

[shoegal]

On ‎5‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 3:47 PM, DelicateDee said:

Why does someone need to step up to Bethenny?  Other than John, has she gotten in someone's face?  (Although in this instance, John got in hers 1st).  I'm reading all these posts about mean, nasty, arrogant , queen been Bethenny, but I just don't see what you all are seeing.  The house comment wasn't nasty, just an observation and a little unsolicited advice about dragging a remodel out for 7 years!  In all likelihood, one would lose money on constant redo's and resale if so much is put into a project, especially if it's not in a prime location.  Unless you plan on never selling the place and from my observations, rich folks are always selling their beautiful homes for more beautiful homes.  Also, her and Carole talking under their breath about Jules not eating was another observation between 2 friends.  They weren't being mean to Jules as their jibes where just between the two of them.  I've enjoyed moments like that with my besties.  It's what close friends sometimes do, right or wrong.  Face it, snarking on people is what spices up a friendship as long as it doesn't go any further to cause hurt.  The same thing about her comments on Jules weight.  Who wouldn't, upon meeting a friend's friend who appears to be abnormally skinny, wouldn't say something to that affect with their close friend.  This is what close friends do sometime.  Unfortunately, as flawed humans, we don't always act in pristine ways.  As it turns out, Beth was right on about that.

I agree with this....it reminds me of the idea that when you hate someone, everything they do can just bug the shit out of you.  You know when you can't stand someone, you hate the way they BREATHE!  It's like 'can you believe that bitch is breathing like that!?!?  It's just like her to be hogging all the oxygen!  Ugh, she's so annoying....'  I think there is a little bit of that going on with Bethenny. 

For better or worse, this is the Real Housewives and RH demand drama.  It needs to have snarky comments and discussions about the other wives and even a little shade thrown around.  I think Bethenny makes great tv, which is her job.  At least they we aren't talking about poop hats and "charity" (I'm still bitter about the shit show that is RHOD).  I enjoy RHNY, and Carole and Bethenny are my favorites!  I'd hang with them any day.

Edited May 9, 2016 by shoegal

[Higgins]

Alright, Jules was wasted on WWHL. Not a good look.

[jinjer]

Bethenny does make good tv. Maybe she will settle down.  She is just going 1000 mph right now. And it is all biting all the time.  The first time I liked her was her alone time with Jules.  Bethenny is better in smaller doses, but she does generate a lot of activity/action! I just am not liking her.  But she is good tv.

[DelicateDee]

8 hours ago, Gaily said:

At least Heather was the only one with enough balls to go toe-to-toe with Bethenny -- the others just fawn or cower in fear over her.  I miss "Holla" -- she was smart,outspoken and a take-no-prisoners type of person. I agree with the other posters who liked the friendship between Heather and Carole too -- Carole seemed much nicer and more genuine when she was with Heather.  

I seem to have to keep asking questions, but who is cowering in fear over Bethenny?  Most of the ladies, if they have an issue with her, will talk to her about it.  The only one I see not confronting her is Dorinda.  But I just saw Luann having an airing out with her about not being invited to Kyle's shindig.  In previous seasons, we saw Sonja get into it with her and When she first came back, we saw her and Ramoana mix it up.  I find most of these ladies will call out someone right away rather than let things fester, unlike the BH crowd.  Heather might be a take no prisoners type, but in her initial scrap with Bethenny, she inserted herself into a situation that was none of her business which rubbed B the wrong way, thus the set up of their contentious personalities.  

Carol gets along with the type A's, Heather and Bethenny, because she is the counterbalance, IMHO.  I don't think she's up anyone's butt, she's just a more mellow person who jells with Bethenny.  I don't have a strong feeling one way or another about Carole, but feel she is a needed element to the show.  

[RedheadZombie]

3 hours ago, ryebread said:

I think she's a butt kisser. I thought she kissed Heather's butt and people loved Heather. 

Carole has always seemed like she would slip into whatever personality suited whomever she was sidling up next to.  I cannot stand Bethenny's voice or mouth but I would prefer spending a day with her over Carole. I'd pop a Xanax and hope for the best.

With Carole the Xanax would be wasted.  I'd just go to sleep.  Without the antics of Beth and Heather, she is milquetoast that doesn't seem to have any drive to do anything or go anywhere. Her dog is cute though.  I'd take Baby for a walk.

I wonder if Carole's husband would even recognize his wife anymore.  This isn't a dig, I finally started liking her last season.  When Anthony met her, she was pretty successful in her career.  She didn't get there by lacking motivation, sleeping all day, or being negligent about returning calls.  Looking at pictures of her back then, she dressed more conservatively (no ass cheeks hanging out of bathing suits), and she seemed to live a more quiet life.

I think Carole never quite got over the double (or triple) whammy of losing those closest to her in a short period of time.  I didn't read her book, but I think she's mentioned that she just disappeared for a while.  Perhaps even isolated herself and withdrew from everyone she knew.  But it seems to me that she deliberately re-created her persona.  She either smokes a great deal of pot, takes a nice anti-anxiety med, meditates a great deal, or all of those.  She's turned herself more into a sex kitten who likes to flirt with "boys".   She wants to stay up all night, sleep all day, ignore deadlines, be the cool girl.  Even when she hired an assistant, it was all about how zany and laid back she was, and it seemed as if she's never had an employee, and hadn't the faintest idea how to conduct an interview or ask for a resume.  Again, this is not the Carole who reached the top of her profession.

I think maybe Carole needed to do this awhile when she couldn't handle feeling like her life was out of control and filled with doom and gloom.  Maybe she realized it's easier to live like that, and people make fewer expectations.  Maybe she avoided getting close to people.  Wasn't she reluctant to even call Russ a boyfriend and labelled their relationship as open?  It would seem that she's deliberately avoided men who were like Anthony.  And when she went to collect his ashes she finally showed a vulnerability, and it seemed like she was far from getting over this.  But that's what happens when you bury emotions and trauma rather than working through them.

She does seem a little insecure in her relationship with Adam, and who wouldn't be.  She seems to really be in love, which may have taken her by surprise.  She knows she's in a completely different place in her life than Adam.  She knows she can't give him children if that's what he wants, and maybe she feels too old to start with adoption.  The relationship is unsustainable unless Adam compromises on his goals, or Carole changes her own way of life.  Maybe she feels like Adam's "the one", and it would be really bittersweet to know there's really no future for them.

From what little I know of her, she strikes me as someone who was high strung when she was working in her field.  No way was she laying around high all the time, maybe cocaine was her drug of choice as it was with her BFF.  We know she suffers from anxiety because it slipped out when she met with Yo and Brandi that she'd taken a Xanax before meeting up with them.  And for a woman who was cool enough with her looks that she seemed very comfortable in her own skin, she now seems to be willing to have endless amounts of crap pumped into her face, and needle procedures, thong bathing suits, riding on handle bars of bikes, fishing for compliments, nagging her BF to tell her he loves her. 

I may be completely off track, but don't feel I am.  It makes me sad because most of us learn to accept ourselves more and more as we age, to love ourselves, become more comfortable in our own skin, etc.  But Carole is like Benjamin Button, aging (or maturing) backwards.

[Boofish]

I guess I'm Benjamin Button as well. At 20/30 I would dress and act the way people (and I) thought someone my age should. I looked and felt different about myself. As I approach my last year in my 40's (HELLOOOO 50!) my look and attitude has changed. I wear smaller clothes (because I can) higher heels (because I can) I go out, have a ton of friends and an active social life. As I get older it becomes more and more apparent (baring any tragedy or illness) that all of our time is limited. I spent the first 40 years conforming to someone's idea of what "women a certain age" should behave like and now me and my big ass afro really don't care.  

[Yours Truly]

On 5/6/2016 at 6:43 PM, TheFinalRose said:

Has Bethenney apologized on Twitter yet for the JonBenet Ramsey comment? Because as the mother of a young, fair haired little girl herself I would expect her to have some empathy for the horrible, brutal death JonBenet suffered, and not just use her as content for a one-liner.  It was cold and I hope she gets heat for it.

Carole looked the opposite of her cool-hip chick persona in those ABC news id's they showed. I do think she's regressing, but back to what, I do not know.

As a naturally underweight person for a great deal of my life (but not anymore, haha) I avoid commenting on people's body weight. It is unpleasant to have your weight commented on constantly. HOWEVER, I was never on tv so that being said Jules' legs in those jeans scared me as she was walking into the manicure place. I can't imagine how she looks in real life if she scares me on tv.

I actually felt sorry for LuAnne.  Bethenney obviously waited until the cameras were rolling to whine about Lu texting her to come to the BevHills Ho-wives party. You could just see the realization dawning on Lu's face that Bethenney had saved that bit and was sticking it to her on camera for the fun of it.  It surprised me that Lu looked hurt, she must be feeling really vulnerable because usually she's more teflon.  

See I understand that Lu has done her share of unfavorable stuff throughout the seasons but this really stood out to me. I mean it was extra clear that Beth pulled that tid bit off information out for the cameras 4 months LATER for the cameras ala Jill Zarin and her "get a hobby" voicemail. Just because Lu's stuck it to some of the others in the past just like every other HW on this show doesn't mean that when Beth does it's somehow justified. I like Lu because when all is said and done she doesn't overthink every little fucking thing. I mean sometimes she's got a gripe but when is the last time she's ever hung on to something like a dog with a bone? The longest "feud" that I can remember was the whole thing with Adam and that wasn't even something SHE was holding on to. She just wasn't conceding as quickly as she usually does with other things. I'm just over Beth and her pointedly obvious tactics. Lame and not at all subtle. Kinda corny.

[izabella]

Luann was highly critical of Alex and hung onto that until Alex was off the show.  I  give Lu no slack for anything.  Countless has been a beast all along.

[Yours Truly]

On 5/8/2016 at 2:32 PM, BigMamaThorton said:

I can't help but remember Gillian Flynn's description of "The Cool Girl" in her novel Gone Girl when watching Carole of late. 

 

I should hasten to add that I'm often left wondering what happened to her identity?  Perhaps the first few season's cool girl was the facade, and who she really is, these years later, is just now surfacing?  Disappointing to find we as women are as susceptible as men these boxed categories and painfully astute cliches, no? 

A thousand times THIS! Ugggghh I have a friend who was all about being the COOL GIRL and it drove me crazy because it is such an oxymoron. These are the girls who want nothing more than to be adored, lusted after, admired, validated, approved by, MEN all the while claiming indifference or even deny the girly girl label. Those are the worst because I find it completely pathetic. It's like "see, I'm not a girly girl cause I can hang with the guys and not take their sexist behavior personally. Let them sexually harrass me without getting offended" why? Because they WANT to be desired by them! So they make themselves completely accessible to them which I find completely disgusting. It's such a demeaning performance that should never be condoned. Hell I appreciate the Sonja's of the world more cause at least she's being honest about the attention she wants, craves and lobbies for. Carole's version is just way too superior and more importantly cowardly all the while giving off a judgey vibe to anyone who choose to conduct themselves in any other manner than the "cool" chick. Ya know cause Carole's got it all figured out. Blaaaahh!

[WireWrap]

28 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

See I understand that Lu has done her share of unfavorable stuff throughout the seasons but this really stood out to me. I mean it was extra clear that Beth pulled that tid bit off information out for the cameras 4 months LATER for the cameras ala Jill Zarin and her "get a hobby" voicemail. Just because Lu's stuck it to some of the others in the past just like every other HW on this show doesn't mean that when Beth does it's somehow justified. I like Lu because when all is said and done she doesn't overthink every little fucking thing. I mean sometimes she's got a gripe but when is the last time she's ever hung on to something like a dog with a bone? The longest "feud" that I can remember was the whole thing with Adam and that wasn't even something SHE was holding on to. She just wasn't conceding as quickly as she usually does with other things. I'm just over Beth and her pointedly obvious tactics. Lame and not at all subtle. Kinda corny.

Luann held on to the Adam/Carole fight with an iron fist until about a week before the cameras started rolling on SM, then decides to let it go on camera to make Carole look like the petty one. Luann is slick, very slick. LOL

That said, what Bethenny said about Luann/Hamptons party was nasty and petty in its own right as were her comments about Dorinda/John at her house over the summer as well. 

[shoegal]

16 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I wonder if Carole's husband would even recognize his wife anymore.  This isn't a dig, I finally started liking her last season.  When Anthony met her, she was pretty successful in her career.  She didn't get there by lacking motivation, sleeping all day, or being negligent about returning calls.  Looking at pictures of her back then, she dressed more conservatively (no ass cheeks hanging out of bathing suits), and she seemed to live a more quiet life.

I think Carole never quite got over the double (or triple) whammy of losing those closest to her in a short period of time.  I didn't read her book, but I think she's mentioned that she just disappeared for a while.  Perhaps even isolated herself and withdrew from everyone she knew.  But it seems to me that she deliberately re-created her persona.  She either smokes a great deal of pot, takes a nice anti-anxiety med, meditates a great deal, or all of those.  She's turned herself more into a sex kitten who likes to flirt with "boys".   She wants to stay up all night, sleep all day, ignore deadlines, be the cool girl.  Even when she hired an assistant, it was all about how zany and laid back she was, and it seemed as if she's never had an employee, and hadn't the faintest idea how to conduct an interview or ask for a resume.  Again, this is not the Carole who reached the top of her profession.

I think maybe Carole needed to do this awhile when she couldn't handle feeling like her life was out of control and filled with doom and gloom.  Maybe she realized it's easier to live like that, and people make fewer expectations.  Maybe she avoided getting close to people.  Wasn't she reluctant to even call Russ a boyfriend and labelled their relationship as open?  It would seem that she's deliberately avoided men who were like Anthony.  And when she went to collect his ashes she finally showed a vulnerability, and it seemed like she was far from getting over this.  But that's what happens when you bury emotions and trauma rather than working through them.

She does seem a little insecure in her relationship with Adam, and who wouldn't be.  She seems to really be in love, which may have taken her by surprise.  She knows she's in a completely different place in her life than Adam.  She knows she can't give him children if that's what he wants, and maybe she feels too old to start with adoption.  The relationship is unsustainable unless Adam compromises on his goals, or Carole changes her own way of life.  Maybe she feels like Adam's "the one", and it would be really bittersweet to know there's really no future for them.

From what little I know of her, she strikes me as someone who was high strung when she was working in her field.  No way was she laying around high all the time, maybe cocaine was her drug of choice as it was with her BFF.  We know she suffers from anxiety because it slipped out when she met with Yo and Brandi that she'd taken a Xanax before meeting up with them.  And for a woman who was cool enough with her looks that she seemed very comfortable in her own skin, she now seems to be willing to have endless amounts of crap pumped into her face, and needle procedures, thong bathing suits, riding on handle bars of bikes, fishing for compliments, nagging her BF to tell her he loves her. 

I may be completely off track, but don't feel I am.  It makes me sad because most of us learn to accept ourselves more and more as we age, to love ourselves, become more comfortable in our own skin, etc.  But Carole is like Benjamin Button, aging (or maturing) backwards.

I think the reason Carole is "aging" or "maturing" backwards is because she spent her thirties taking care of her dying husband and mourning his death, things that are typically experienced when you are in your fifties or sixties.  I don't fault Carole one single bit for wanting to get back a little bit of her carefree 'youth' now that she has been through hell and come out on the other side.  I don't think Anthony would recognize Carole now because his death made her a different person.  If Anthony had lived, Carole would no doubt bear little resemblance to the Carole we 'know' today.  

I hope Carole rides on handlebars, I hope she puts her feet up on the dash, I hope she wears pigtails and slipdresses and bikinis and flirts with younger men.  I hope she lives the hell out of her five good summers left (and many more than that!).  She has earned it IMO. 

[Boofish]

7 minutes ago, shoegal said:

I think the reason Carole is "aging" or "maturing" backwards is because she spent her thirties taking care of her dying husband and mourning his death, things that are typically experienced when you are in your fifties or sixties.  I don't fault Carole one single bit for wanting to get back a little bit of her carefree 'youth' now that she has been through hell and come out on the other side.  I don't think Anthony would recognize Carole now because his death made her a different person.  If Anthony had lived, Carole would no doubt bear little resemblance to the Carole we 'know' today.  

I hope Carole rides on handlebars, I hope she puts her feet up on the dash, I hope she wears pigtails and slipdresses and bikinis and flirts with younger men.  I hope she lives the hell out of her five good summers left (and many more than that!).  She has earned it IMO. 

Wish I could give you 1000 likes

[ZaldamoWilder]

25 minutes ago, shoegal said:

I think the reason Carole is "aging" or "maturing" backwards is because she spent her thirties taking care of her dying husband and mourning his death, things that are typically experienced when you are in your fifties or sixties.  I don't fault Carole one single bit for wanting to get back a little bit of her carefree 'youth' now that she has been through hell and come out on the other side.  I don't think Anthony would recognize Carole now because his death made her a different person.  If Anthony had lived, Carole would no doubt bear little resemblance to the Carole we 'know' today.  

I hope Carole rides on handlebars, I hope she puts her feet up on the dash, I hope she wears pigtails and slipdresses and bikinis and flirts with younger men.  I hope she lives the hell out of her five good summers left (and many more than that!).  She has earned it IMO. 

Love all this.  And I hope she gets to do all of those things too.  But it has the unfortunate visual effect of a try hard.  I liked Carole when she first came aboard and specifically for all the things you mentioned.  She was free and easy and organic and whatever.   Making sure to point your chin downward before you FaceTime your boyfriend and comparing your ass to a 25 year old's is too *conscious* of it all.   Look Janet Jackson, Michele Obama, Angela Bassett,
Ramona Singer, Christie Brinkley, Tina Turner - 50, 51, 57, 59, 61 and 76 all slayage, all the time.  Madonna is 57.  Last week she showed up to the met gala in booty cutout leather pants.   What we're talking about isn't a matter of taste or the way you dress or staying in your lane with it, it's about looking like you're trying.  That's the day you stop winning.

[Higgins]

1 hour ago, shoegal said:

I think the reason Carole is "aging" or "maturing" backwards is because she spent her thirties taking care of her dying husband and mourning his death, things that are typically experienced when you are in your fifties or sixties.  I don't fault Carole one single bit for wanting to get back a little bit of her carefree 'youth' now that she has been through hell and come out on the other side.  I don't think Anthony would recognize Carole now because his death made her a different person.  If Anthony had lived, Carole would no doubt bear little resemblance to the Carole we 'know' today.  

I hope Carole rides on handlebars, I hope she puts her feet up on the dash, I hope she wears pigtails and slipdresses and bikinis and flirts with younger men.  I hope she lives the hell out of her five good summers left (and many more than that!).  She has earned it IMO. 

I spent my 30s raising children, one child with cancer, not exactly a care free youth  (is third decade really considered part of adolescence?)  and I am not wearing pigtails so I think something else is at play here.

[shoegal]

2 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Love all this.  And I hope she gets to do all of those things too.  But it has the unfortunate visual effect of a try hard.  I liked Carole when she first came aboard and specifically for all the things you mentioned.  She was free and easy and organic and whatever.   Making sure to point your chin downward before you FaceTime your boyfriend and comparing your ass to a 25 year old's is too *conscious* of it all.   Look Janet Jackson, Michele Obama, Angela Bassett,
Ramona Singer, Christie Brinkley, Tina Turner - 50, 51, 57, 59, 61 and 76 all slayage, all the time.  Madonna is 57.  Last week she showed up to the met gala in booty cutout leather pants.   What we're talking about isn't a matter of taste or the way you dress or staying in your lane with it, it's about looking like you're trying.  That's the day you stop winning.

I don't know about winning, I think this is a case of just can't win.  If Carole thinks highly of herself physically, like thinking she has a nice ass (which IMO is totally justified) then she's a try hard, fake 'cool girl' who is too ugly to think highly of herself, but if she shows a little vulnerability and asks for reassurance from her boyfriend that he thinks she's pretty or tries to look cute for him when they facetime, she's pathetic and desperate and again, trying too hard.  How exhausting. 

...and am I supposed to believe that Christie Brinkley doesn't tilt her chin downward before she facetimes? Or that Janet Jackson doesn't compare her ass to a 25 year olds?  'cause I'm not buying it.

Edited May 10, 2016 by shoegal

[ZaldamoWilder]

1 minute ago, shoegal said:

I don't know about winning, I think this is a case of just can't win.  If Carole thinks highly of herself physically, like thinking she has a nice ass (which IMO is totally justified) then she's a try hard, fake 'cool girl' who is too ugly to think highly of herself, but if she shows a little vulnerability and asks for reassurance from her boyfriend that he thinks she's pretty or tries to look cute for him when they facetime, she's pathetic and desperate and again, trying too hard.  How exhausting. 

It's not mutually exclusive for me, she can have high self esteem and be vulnerable.  And she does have a nice ass lol.  I just don't think that's for someone to say about themselves.   Mileage I suppose.  What's exhausting is being that conscious of how you're aging and simultaneously handlebar "carefree".   Gummy bear tabs of acid and botox treatments probably cancel each other out.

[shoegal]

8 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

It's not mutually exclusive for me, she can have high self esteem and be vulnerable.  And she does have a nice ass lol.  I just don't think that's for someone to say about themselves.   Mileage I suppose.  What's exhausting is being that conscious of how you're aging and simultaneously handlebar "carefree".   Gummy bear tabs of acid and botox treatments probably cancel each other out.

I don't see aging and being carefree as mutually exclusive.  Carole is certainly aware she is aging, aren't we all?  Is anyone on the north side of 40 not aware? 

As far as botox and gummy bear acid hits, maybe we should ask the Vanderpump rules crowd...they're all on the southside of 40 and pretty familiar with both.  What's the saying?  Age is just a number.

 

ETA:  When I'm 53, if my ass looks like Carole's....I'm putting it on a billboard.  Just sayin'.

Edited May 10, 2016 by shoegal

[ZaldamoWilder]

7 minutes ago, shoegal said:

I don't see aging and being carefree as mutually exclusive.  Carole is certainly aware she is aging, aren't we all?  Is anyone on the north side of 40 not aware? 

As far as botox and gummy bear acid hits, maybe we should ask the Vanderpump rules crowd...they're all on the southside of 40 and pretty familiar with both.  What's the saying?  Age is just a number.

 

ETA:  When I'm 53, if my ass looks like Carole's....I'm putting it on a billboard.  Just sayin'.

They aren't.  But more accurately what I said was that being so conscious of aging while maintaining a carefree image looks try hardish.    I'm 47 and 3/4, I am not the one to tell a veteran doll to stand down.  I'm saying (generally not just in relation to Carole) trying to be sexy isn't sexy.

[ZaldamoWilder]

26 minutes ago, shoegal said:

...and am I supposed to believe that Christie Brinkley doesn't tilt her chin downward before she facetimes? Or that Janet Jackson doesn't compare her ass to a 25 year olds?  'cause I'm not buyin

Lol! sorry if the point already landed. I just saw this.  They might but you're referring to the action, I'm referring to the effort.  

[shoegal]

2 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

They aren't.  But more accurately what I said was that being so conscious of aging while maintaining a carefree image looks try hardish.    I'm 47 and 3/4, I am not the one to tell a veteran doll to stand down.  I'm saying (generally not just in relation to Carole) trying to be sexy isn't sexy.

I guess I just don't agree.  Am I supposed to believe that sexy women aren't trying to be sexy?  Is Beyoncé not trying to be sexy?  Is 57 year old Madonna in her leather ass baring Met gala outfit not try hardish?  I feel like pretty much everyone who is sexy, is trying.  That's kinda how you get there.  IMO.  MMV.

[ZaldamoWilder]

Just now, shoegal said:

I guess I just don't agree.  Am I supposed to believe that sexy women aren't trying to be sexy?  Is Beyoncé not trying to be sexy?  Is 57 year old Madonna in her leather ass baring Met gala outfit not try hardish?  I feel like pretty much everyone who is sexy, is trying.  That's kinda how you get there.  IMO.  MMV.

Girl that's up to you but the point I'm making is that youthful nymphs (of any age) and their growing concern with aging are incongruent.  

This is literally, what I just said above.

We may be discussing two different concepts entirely, in which case I can cheerfully agree to disagree :)

[WireWrap]

27 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

It's not mutually exclusive for me, she can have high self esteem and be vulnerable.  And she does have a nice ass lol.  I just don't think that's for someone to say about themselves.   Mileage I suppose.  What's exhausting is being that conscious of how you're aging and simultaneously handlebar "carefree".   Gummy bear tabs of acid and botox treatments probably cancel each other out.

Just a point of reference, are you referring to the "gummy bear" Carole was given when she and Adam were on 1 of their first dates? She did not take/eat it knowing it was laced with acid/drugs, she thought it was just a gummy bear from what she told Heather last season. I don't think she does drugs like acid, pot yes, acid...no, at least from what she has said on the show. As for her getting botox, I remember viewers slamming her for not getting any or having her teeth/overbite corrected and now she is getting slammed for doing it, the woman can't win. LOL

[shoegal]

2 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Girl that's up to you but the point I'm making is that youthful nymphs (of any age) and their growing concern with aging are incongruent.  

This is literally, what I just said above.

We may be discussing two different concepts entirely, in which case I can cheerfully agree to disagree :)

I think we are discussing two different things, cause I don't see a world where Madonna doesn't have a face full of botox while wearing leather hotpants.  If that isn't incongruent, then I'm not sure what to make of this whole discussion.

[ZaldamoWilder]

15 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Just a point of reference, are you referring to the "gummy bear" Carole was given when she and Adam were on 1 of their first dates? She did not take/eat it knowing it was laced with acid/drugs, she thought it was just a gummy bear from what she told Heather last season. I don't think she does drugs like acid, pot yes, acid...no, at least from what she has said on the show. As for her getting botox, I remember viewers slamming her for not getting any or having her teeth/overbite corrected and now she is getting slammed for doing it, the woman can't win. LOL

lol, yes the acid gummy bear.   fair enough, she had no idea.   just to be clear I'm not slamming her for any age delaying tactic.  I'm saying you can't be worried and carefree simultaneously.

15 minutes ago, shoegal said:

I think we are discussing two different things, cause I don't see a world where Madonna doesn't have a face full of botox while wearing leather hotpants.  If that isn't incongruent, then I'm not sure what to make of this whole discussion.

it may not have been clear from my post but this was my exact point.  all the women I listed before Madge, both younger and older than she, are aging barely perceptibly, meanwhile this coconut shows up ass cheeks out thinking she looks hot when it's the very thing reminding us that she's 57.

[Higgins]

Pathetic and cringe worthy. I suffer second hand embarrassment when I see things like that.

[Yours Truly]

4 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Luann held on to the Adam/Carole fight with an iron fist until about a week before the cameras started rolling on SM, then decides to let it go on camera to make Carole look like the petty one. Luann is slick, very slick. LOL

That said, what Bethenny said about Luann/Hamptons party was nasty and petty in its own right as were her comments about Dorinda/John at her house over the summer as well. 

She didn't hold on to it or harp on it. She may have kept RESPONDING to the stupidity but Lu doesn't go all Spartan and any topic which is my point. Carole is the one letting her bitterness over it all continue to give it life that it's spilled over into this season. Like seriously? All over a dude ur fucking? A relationship u KNOW has a shelf live that's quickly approaching its expiration date? It's ridiculous. It's also not that scandalous of HW scandal so I just can't be all that mad at it. But regardless I will take Lu's distaste over the whole thing over Carole's callous disregard and attitude. Add that this little fling is really coming across just as ridiculous and desperate as Lu somewhat described it as and I'm tickled pink. 

[shoegal]

1 hour ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

it may not have been clear from my post but this was my exact point.  all the women I listed before Madge, both younger and older than she, are aging barely perceptibly, meanwhile this coconut shows up ass cheeks out thinking she looks hot when it's the very thing reminding us that she's 57.

Thanks for the clarification.  So we seem to be back to the idea that Carole is too old to act/look/be a certain way.  I think Carole looks fabulous.  I think Madonna looks fabulous.  I heard Janet Jackson is pregnant, she's about to turn 50.  Tina Turner is touring again, and I doubt she's doing it in a moomoo.  You know what I say?  Fuck it and work it, ladies!

[breezy424]

IMO, there's a difference between a woman who knows she has a great ass and a woman, no matter what her age, who puts her ass out on display at a very elegant gala.  I don't care if Madonna was 18 or 25.  It was tacky.  Just like Kanye was tacky.  It's a lack of respect.  The invitation specifically stated it was a 'black tie' event. 

I don't have a problem with Carole's mindset about who she is when it comes to her age.  I do have a problem with Carole and the Bethenny  mindset that she has presented this season.  It's not likable.

[Yours Truly]

16 hours ago, shoegal said:

Thanks for the clarification.  So we seem to be back to the idea that Carole is too old to act/look/be a certain way.  I think Carole looks fabulous.  I think Madonna looks fabulous.  I heard Janet Jackson is pregnant, she's about to turn 50.  Tina Turner is touring again, and I doubt she's doing it in a moomoo.  You know what I say?  Fuck it and work it, ladies!

I think the point is that its not a good look when the trying so hard is obvious. Yes it's obvious that women who are wearing daring outfits or glamorous styles or oozing sex appeal are putting in an effort considering the outcome of their appearance but the difference is that it comes across as effortLESS as well as hitting the mark. These women do it with ease and even if there is noticable "work" done to achieve that end look or persona or if it's done right and the person pulls of the look without LOOKING like their trying then that's when they are winning. Simply noticing that an effort has obviously been made to look a certain way on stage, for an event, or even being fabulous walking down the street isn't the same as seeing someone struggle to deliver STYLE. You present style you don't just slap stuff on based on a dELiA*s catalog, giggle, suck on a lollipop (or gummy bear), put your hair in pigtails and viola sexy, vixen in her 50's giving twenty years olds a run for their money. Hey if that's what people want to do and it makes them as happy as a pig in shit GO FOR IT but its comical and it always will be.

I've known people who march to the beat of their own drum when it comes to fashion and God Bless 'Em they are being true to themselves. Problem with Carole it seems like a role she is trying to shoehorn herself into using the most obvious, lame and corny device. Clothes. Cliche after cliche after cliche. I think she could rock whatever sexy she wants but she seems to be borrowing her ideas VER BATIM which in itself is a fashion faux paux. True fashion and style comes from mixing trends and coming up with a look that's unique to you using what's out there as a GUIDELINE. It's painfully obvious that she has no idea so she resorts to "go to" fashion which a lot people do and that's fine but her go to is Forever21 which is pretty ridiculous. I'm forty and I LOVE Forever 21. I get PIECES from there NOT complete wardrobes. Now again if that's what floats her boat whatever but from a fashion perspective? She's corny and lame and looks like she's trying too hard. Period. When it turns into trying TOO HARD and it shows that negates the whole point..  Even more sad she's got the body, the looks (according to some), the money to hit it out of the park if only she wasn't so stupid to be trying to pull of an AGE instead of fashion and style. That's not what fashion is all about. It's not a time machine.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Yours Truly

[ZaldamoWilder]

16 hours ago, shoegal said:

Thanks for the clarification.  So we seem to be back to the idea that Carole is too old to act/look/be a certain way.  I think Carole looks fabulous.  I think Madonna looks fabulous.  I heard Janet Jackson is pregnant, she's about to turn 50.  Tina Turner is touring again, and I doubt she's doing it in a moomoo.  You know what I say?  Fuck it and work it, ladies!

Nope.  Because we were never at this idea (at least I wasn't).   Last time for the cheap seats - the idea is: looking like you're trying not to age, ages you.  And my objection, in Carole's case, is attempting to pair that with the diametric trait of being blithe about aging.   That's it.  It's not about how I think she should behave or that I consider her too old to act like anything, it's exactly what I said above - either she's concerned with not looking older or she doesn't give a damb but it can't be both.