S07.E22: End

[Ursula Parrott]

The Fug Sisters speak for me in their series finale wrap-up. 

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Indeed, the finale and the weeks preceding it showcased so much of what’s been frustrating and at times alienating about the show’s limp toward oblivion. The plot, rather than a character, got behind the wheel and drove us home; a dredged-up court case from long ago — which no one remembers, prosecuted by a character that just showed up a couple weeks ago — hijacked the whole affair. I love Cush Jumbo, but she shouldn’t have had more screen time than Cary Agos, a beloved regular who received perfunctory epilogue (he’s a teacher, he seems happy). Diane Lockhart, one of the grooviest and most self-assured characters on TV, was stuck with potential cracks in her marriage and in her firm. She felt… relegated, somehow. Knocked down a tier. And for what? So that the parallel ending could happen. Grace deferring Berkeley to stand by her man — her father — was an interesting alarm bell for Alicia, because it represents the shadow Peter has cast over all their lives. But Zach quitting Georgetown at 19, so he could move to Paris with a 23-year old fiance who accepted him because marriage is a tax-friendly, impermanent adventure, was merely an excuse for Alicia to treat her son once more with scorn. The Good Wife was at its worst when it viewed the characters with contempt, and Alicia’s children suffered the most from that.

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The Kings themselves have griped about those handcuffs. “It’s just too demanding,” they whimpered recently of a full season of episodes, and yes, it is difficult. But Grey’s Anatomy is rolling deep into double-digit seasons without any such public bellyaching. Michelle King told Variety they created the show because they needed a job. What a gift this longevity should have been. What a Champagne problem. How torturously golden your handcuffs are. For years, we ate up their work, and The Kings too often seem contemptuous of the loyalties that bred. Nowhere was that more evident in the handling of Kalinda and her curious exit, when they teased viewers with a reunion of two actors who refused to share a scene, then merely faked it with awkward splicing and mocked people for being offended. Robert King even condescendingly pointed out that people are silly for believing what they see on TV, because after all, the death of Will Gardner was not also the death of Josh Charles — one of the most obnoxious showrunner statements in recent memory. This was their inability to manage his actors and his set, and impose professionalism where clearly there was none. And their choice to try and dupe viewers. And their choice to tell us we were stupid for caring so much.

Fug on, sisters, you've nailed it.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Good Wife Deals, Heals, And Reels In Her Season Finale

As Peter's trial comes to an end, we get to find out whether Alicia's learned anything in the past seven years.

[Hanahope]

I was pretty disappointed by these last several episodes, if not most of this entire season.  What I liked about the show was the take on various legal topics and sometimes the absurdity and comeuppance of various characters.  Of course, I hate-watched the butchery of the legal process, but accepted it because they did only have an hour, in most cases, to resolve a complex legal issue, and pretty much all legal shows do the same thing.  I suppose its like many medical shows and the absurdity that a patient will meet their surgeon for the first time the day before some major surgery, or the surgeon last minute finds out some previously undiscovered symptom that completely changes their diagnosis and/or treatment.

But agree that dredging up some long lost criminal case from seasons ago that wasn't that interesting to begin with and that no one really cared about  as the excuse to finally kick Peter out of public office for good was boring at best and insultingly stupid at worst.

I will not miss this show if we'd have to live with this current season in perpetuity.

[Nono Ono]

What a delightful review/commentary, Tara! Way better than the episode. Thank you!

[Nono Ono]

  Quote

And then Ghost Will tries to smooth her ratchet wig one last time, because its shittiness is obvious EVEN TO THE DEAD.

I got more enjoyment from that line in the recap than I did from the episode itself. Although the slap was nice. And as much as I never liked Will, it was nice to see him back and for Alicia to get some closure.

But otherwise, it was...meh. Definitely not a great finale. It wasn't horrible, but it could have been much better. But at least the show is done with. And at the end of the day, we got 5 really good seasons with the show, and 2 mediocre seasons. Not a bad accomplishment overall. Especially in this day and age when the traditional network format isn't doing so well. The first 5 seasons gave us 112 episodes, and how many TV shows today, on network or otherwise, can give us that? Not too many. So while this show did overstay it's welcome, it was still a good top quality show for much of it's run, and as blah as it got in the last few seasons, not gonna lie, I will miss it.

Somewhere, though, Archie Panjabi must be laughing her ass off.

Totally agree to the hilarity of the bad wig being obvious EVEN TO THE DEAD.

[AudienceofOne]

Besides, just personally, I thought Alicia kicked ass in this episode. I thought she was fucking badass. The FBI guy didn't have a case; it was all just speculation and nudge nudge wink wink, 'Peter's corrupt 'just cause he is'. Peter was clearly being railroaded. So that, coupled with the divorce, just made Alicia look like she was doing the right thing by a man she had history with but had no intention of staying with. It actually made her look ethical and loyal. It was a strange decision to make when we were supposed to feel some catharsis when she got slapped. I just felt bemused.

[wonderwoman]

I had just been discussing the finale with some friends:

"Because the writers never fully developed relationship among the secondary characters (who, much of the time were at least as interesting, if not more so, than Alicia), when Alicia's journey began to pull her away from the center -- in particular, her campaign for state's attorney -- the show became fragmented and disconnected. this happened to some extent on Mad Men, but because their season was so much shorter (MM 13 episodes vs 22 for tgw), viewers didn't have as long to stew about it."

when I came across Matt Stoller Seitz's observation at Vulture:

"If Alicia could time-warp into Mad Men’s universe, Don Draper might propose to her."

Now, that's a show I might watch, but only if it had fascinating supporting characters portrayed by an outstanding ensemble cast:)

http://www.vulture.com/2016/05/the-good-wife-was-a-great-show.html

[shapeshifter]

36 minutes ago, wonderwoman said:

...when Alicia's journey began to pull her away from the center -- in particular, her campaign for state's attorney -- the show became fragmented and disconnected....

Interesting. That's when I stopped watching until the last few episodes.

[bookherder]

A confession: I never liked Alicia Florrick. I only started watching  because friends were watching and wanted to talk about it. I loved Diane, Eli, David Lee. So, Alicia All-Alone at the end suits me fine. I suspect, though, that she won't be alone for long, 'cause Alicia strikes me as the kind who needs a man. Not a life, a man.

FWIW, I don't think Peter is trying to sabotage her theoretical new political career, as chosen by Eli. Peter's making sure that he's in the picture from the beginning. Alicia gets elected to anything, Peter will be sidling back into power, 'helping', 'advising', 'giving Alicia the benefit of his experience'. Playing 'power behind the throne' and 'wink, wink, nudge, nudge, talk to me and I'll see that Alicia gets the message'. Peter is never going to go away. And every time Alicia's attention wanders, there will be some sort of Peter-centric crisis to remind her of what her priorities should be.

I feel sorry for Grace. Sure, she was a sweet, dumb, religious kid, but remember when she was running her mother's home law office? Bluffing for the big-name clients, sounding professional, really pulling it together. At least Alicia got a law degree before putting it all behind her to be Peter's wife. Now, Grace hasn't even started college, and she thinks she should 'be there' for her father in his 'time of need'. It's like she hasn't noticed that Peter Florrick is a paid-up member of the Crisis-of-the-Month-Club. Even the dim Alicia finally noticed that it was always something with him. What was it she said, in response to his 'stick by me, I'm being indicted'? "But you're always being indicted!"

And, the slap? I think it was more than just bringing up her husband's infidelity, or just impugning his honesty. As others have said, lots of other lawyers would have done the same to him. I could see Diane doing it to him, for the right client. I think the straw that broke the camel's back was that his honesty, his work, was impugned for the sake of dirty, crooked Peter Florrick. Alicia threw Diane's husband under the bus to 'save' Alicia's no-good husband. (Personal bias - I firmly believe that Peter Florrick lied, cheated, took payoffs, etc. I think he's guilty as hell.) Diane has put up with Alicia for years, stealing staff, causing dissent among the partners, distracting Will, stealing clients, wandering off into politics, leaving others to cover for her, dragging personal crap into the office.
Not crafty legal sneaky stuff, not scheming like David Lee, just the eternal Alicia golly-gee, personal life and emotional crap. Alicia's chief effect on the firm, aside from causing various reshuffles, was to poison the relationship between the firm and state government. From being investigated because of the ties to Peter, to being shunned because of potential conflict-of-interest, to the lease problems that (surprise!) turned into Alicia-drama,  to losing her chance at a judgeship because of Florrick-drama,  having a Florrick in the office has not done Diane much good.
Now, here's Alicia, screwing over Diane's marriage to get her pweshious Peter out of trouble. Again. I loved that slap. And would have been entirely okay with a line-up of people slapping Alicia. Including her kids, who, I hope, run far and fast.

[Winston Wolfe]

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Diane has put up with Alicia for years, stealing staff, causing dissent among the partners, distracting Will, stealing clients, wandering off into politics, leaving others to cover for her, dragging personal crap into the office.

Hi bookherder!  Truer words were never written.  Alicia represents the proverbial "roll of the dice" that truly blew up in Diane's face, damaging both her personal and professional lives.  Possibly irreparably.  That's the real reason Jason Smirk-meister got the Hell out of Dodge. Took him awhile, but he finally realized that the Florricks poison almost everything they touch.  To quote Johnny Sack from the Sopranos, never enough of a body count for those two.  Anyone who could be thrown under the bus, e.g., Eli, Cary, Lucca, Will, Diane, even Diane's freaking Husband, got tossed.  Over and over again.  And masochists that they are, most kept coming back for more, just for the glory of being in St. Alicia's orbit.  Never made any sense to me, I never got what was so special about her.

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I loved that slap. And would have been entirely okay with a line-up of people slapping Alicia. Including her kids, who, I hope, run far and fast.

A friend and I were saying that just last night.  It would have been really cool if every lead character lined up to slap Alicia at the end, Airplane-style.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Winston Wolfe
Edited cause proper punctuation counts.

[dinkysquid]

Endings I Hated:

Dexter

Seinfeld

Mad Men

The Sopranos 

The Good Wife

I'm sure I'll think of more but those are just the ones that immediately come to mind. There are also shows that started off good (IMO)  but the writing suffered and then they became unwatchable: New Girl, Cougar Town, Lost, Fringe, Friends, The X Files.

[cardigirl]

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Diane has put up with Alicia for years, stealing staff, causing dissent among the partners, distracting Will, stealing clients, wandering off into politics, leaving others to cover for her, dragging personal crap into the office.
Not crafty legal sneaky stuff, not scheming like David Lee, just the eternal Alicia golly-gee, personal life and emotional crap. Alicia's chief effect on the firm, aside from causing various reshuffles, was to poison the relationship between the firm and state government. From being investigated because of the ties to Peter, to being shunned because of potential conflict-of-interest, to the lease problems that (surprise!) turned into Alicia-drama,  to losing her chance at a judgeship because of Florrick-drama,  having a Florrick in the office has not done Diane much good.

I think Diane gave as good as she got, honestly.  While I loved how the character was dressed, for the most part, she also came across as someone who was mostly invested only in herself. She lost the judgeship because she played rotten with Alicia.  If Peter hadn't rescinded it, people would have been criticizing him for not having his wife's back.  And often she wanted Alicia in the firm BECAUSE of her relationship with Peter.  

I'm more upset at the lack of real mentoring that went on.  I think Alicia said it really well when she left the firm to create her own firm.  She learned from the best. Diane and Will (although he was reluctant at first to do so)  chose to rescind Alicia's initial partnership offer.  Then they gave it to her to divide and conquer the group that wanted to leave, not because they felt she would truly serve the firm.  Diane told her to be grateful for the opportunity no matter how it came about. I hated her after that. 

Diane cut Alicia off WHENEVER it suited her needs. While the idea of an all female-partner firm sounded like it would have been affirming for women, however, most of these women were shown NOT supporting each other.  Every time Alicia thought she was on firm ground, some ethical dilemma would come up and she would be forced to make decisions she never thought she would. And Diane was right there telling her to do it. 

I didn't like the slap.  I won't be rooting for a spin off of Diane and Cary. Eli and daughter, yes. 

[pinetastic]

The whole idea of an all female partner firm always seemed like a writer's room joke on how Diane's political ideals contrasted with her behavior towards women.  The show pretty actively discouraged any idea that women inherently worked better together than men.

In the pilot episode there is a double whammy on that point.  Diane tries to demote Alicia after she finds problems with Diane's case, and Will says she does this to all the younger women who challenge her.  And the case of the week is about one woman framing another woman for murder.

Maybe the biggest legacy of the Good Wife is the volume of women lawyers they portrayed on television. And in doing so showed how often women disagree as much as they agree. 

[Tetraneutron]

I don't think that has anything to do with the writers making a statement about women partners. Originally Diane and Cary were conceived as antagonists to Alicia. Diane was supposed to be the feminist who devoted her life to her career and looked down on the opt out mom. Cary was supposed to be the privileged young hotshot who wouldn't take a middle aged housewife seriously. You know how the writers loved to write Alicia against the world. 

 

But as the show developed, they changed the character dynamics so they weren't enemies. 

[Noreaster]

Some interesting information about the filming of the finale.  I'm pasting the stuff about the slap since we have been discussing it so much in this thread, but I think the whole interview is worth a read.  

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/good-wife-creators-alicia-will-891973

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What was it like on set to film that scene?

Michelle: It was difficult because Christine and Julianna are friends and genuinely like each other and no one wants to slap a friend, but they're also such professionals and committed to the show that they both recognized that, OK, if Julianna's to get to that place in her acting, Alicia actually really needs to be slapped.

Robert: The stunt coordinator that kept telling the actors, "No, fake it," and then Julianna went up to Christine and said, "No, you're not faking this. That's the only way I get there emotionally is to do this."

 

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In your letter, you said you knew you wanted someone who had victimized Alicia to be the one to slap her. Who were your other options or other characters that you thought would slap Alicia in the end?

Michelle: I would say every other character who's ever been on the show. I'm almost not exaggerating. The writers spent a lot of time, we all did, talking about what this would look like and what made sense and when we came to Diane, that's the thing that really stood out to us as making sense.

Robert: The two other prominent ones were Jackie, Mary Beth Peil's character, and then Grace, but the only reason we brought them up is it felt like it had to be about generational feminism too, but those both seemed tainted. Jackie, by the sense that there's a slight comic quality. You're not supposed to take her seriously 100 percent as a character. And Grace, it just seemed like it had so many other odd, almost incestuous elements if you brought in someone who was of blood relation doing that. Diane has always been a character that we've thought of almost being co-lead with Alicia so that made sense to us.

Michelle: The slap needed to have credibility if the ending were to make any sense because you did need Alicia to have some recognition of, 'Wait a minute, she was right to slap me. I did help bring this on myself.' And Diane brought that credibility.

[FlyingDuchess]

Thanks for sharing that article, Noreaster. It was a really good read.

I was particularly interested to see them mention that the upswell of music toward the end was a David Buckley original. One of the things that has really driven my love of this show has been its musical scoring. LOST is the only other show I can think of whose score has moved me in the same way. I really like the overlay with Better at the end, and I also thought it was familiar. Does anyone know if the same theme was used previously on the show? Or what it's inspiration piece might have been?

[Showthyme]

On 5/11/2016 at 9:07 AM, cardigirl said:

Eli and daughter, yes. 

Definitely.

[iolanthe95]

I'm very disappointed in the direction the Kings decided to take with this show. When I started it, I thought it was going to be about a political wife who learns to value herself and come into her own, instead it ended up being about a woman who is slowly corrupted Walter White-style. There's a reason I never watched Breaking Bad. I'm glad I stopped watching regularly. Still, I will try to remember the show fondly. It really was a great workplace drama.

[Tetraneutron]

So Noreaster, that article pretty much confirms everything we've been saying. They wanted a slap and turned the characters and plot into knots to get the slap, regardless of whether it made sense on any level. Why did Diane slap Alicia? Because it had to be a woman, due to the gender politics. And there aren't that many regular female characters. Lucca is out of the question, because the creators are trying to show that Alicia has female friends, Jackie's a joke and Grace? You could maybe do it but we were never supposed to take that character seriously either. She's the sweet, naive, trusting one. So it had to be Diane. I think, if the writers were absolutely determined to get that slap in there, they should have had actual balls and wrote Alicia doing something legitimately horrible to Diane, something that deserved a slap. 

The writers always wrote Alicia as an innocent victim and everyone else was horrible to her in ways she completely didn't deserve. And that's fine, if that's how you want to take the character, but it does mean your none of your characters will have any depth. This was a continuation of that: Alicia (and Lucca) were doing their jobs and asking the expert witness a pretty standard question to ruin his credibility, something we've seen them do in nearly all the trials this show has portrayed. There is zero possible way to act like Diane was in the right: that this firm should tank the trial, a huge high-profile event where they're fighting for the freedom of the damn Governor, probably the biggest client they've ever had, just because she was embarrassed publicly over her personal life. So when Diane, competent professional at the top of her competitive, elite, field, acts like a Real Housewife in a catfight, once again, Saint Alicia is the innocent victim who did nothing wrong and all the world dumps on for no reason. 

[Noreaster]

No, the Kings very clearly said in their interviews (maybe not this specific one, but in some of the others) that they intended Alicia to be the victimizer.  They believe that Diane was in the right in this episode and that Alicia, who had her reasons for doing what she did, was wrong to betray Diane or at least was not aware of her consequences until that slap. 

I don't think that we, the viewers, were really meant to see Alicia as the victim over the past few seasons.  I think that Alicia might feel that she is a victim at times, but viewers were meant to see her transforming into the other stronger, less ethical characters on the show.  Perhaps the showrunners intended for us to be rooting for Alicia's transformation, but I don't think they were writing her as a victim. 

Edited May 14, 2016 by Noreaster

[bookherder]

6 hours ago, Noreaster said:

I don't think that we, the viewers, were really meant to see Alicia as the victim over the past few seasons.  I think that Alicia might feel that she is a victim at times, but viewers were meant to see her transforming into the other stronger, less ethical characters on the show.  Perhaps the showrunners intended for us to be rooting for Alicia's transformation, but I don't think they were writing her as a victim. 

Then they didn't do that good of a job. I always saw her as one of 'those' women, who would do anything for her man. Maybe not a 'victim', except of her own failings, but if she became 'stronger, less ethical', it was only with regard to defending Peter. She didn't toss Diane's marriage under the bus for some random killer, not even that one who was so fond of her - no, she did it in a frantic attempt to save Peter.
It would have shown change or growth if she had either a) hidden evidence that would exonerate Peter, thus getting revenge and saving the State from having to keep indicting that crook or b) had a witness killed to keep Peter out of prison.
Either go good or go bad, but go big or go home. But, instead, Alicia stands there, wringing her hands. In the beginning, her life was all about Peter, and her reactions to his actions, and, in the end, much the same.

[Noreaster]

I didn't think the show's way of portraying Alicia as the victimizer in the finale worked particularly well either.  But I think there were plenty of instances over the seasons.  Her betrayal of Will and Diane when she split off from the firm with Cary, using her husband's influence to win clients (like Chum Hum), the somewhat shady things she did during the SA election (especially contrasted against the unrealistically good David Hyde Pierce character), taking Diane's offer to become name partner and lying to Cary about it.  Most of this had nothing to do with Peter.  

[Tetraneutron]

14 hours ago, Noreaster said:

I didn't think the show's way of portraying Alicia as the victimizer in the finale worked particularly well either.  But I think there were plenty of instances over the seasons.  Her betrayal of Will and Diane when she split off from the firm with Cary, using her husband's influence to win clients (like Chum Hum), the somewhat shady things she did during the SA election (especially contrasted against the unrealistically good David Hyde Pierce character), taking Diane's offer to become name partner and lying to Cary about it.  Most of this had nothing to do with Peter.  

I don't see that as Alicia being the victimizer, though. Any more than Canning or Patty Nyholm were supposed to be evil when they were trying to trick L/G/whoever into making a mistake. Is Cary also a bad guy because he started the new firm with Alicia? And didn't Cary use his Harvard connections to land clients? Or Will and Diane using their old friends? 

16 hours ago, bookherder said:

Then they didn't do that good of a job. I always saw her as one of 'those' women, who would do anything for her man. Maybe not a 'victim', except of her own failings, but if she became 'stronger, less ethical', it was only with regard to defending Peter. She didn't toss Diane's marriage under the bus for some random killer, not even that one who was so fond of her - no, she did it in a frantic attempt to save Peter.

I disagree. I don't think she "tossed Diane's marriage under the bus" because Kurt was cheating on Diane regardless of what happened in that courtroom. If anything, if Diane is putting her pride over doing her job, Diane is the one at fault. When I said the show makes Alicia the victim against the big bad world that underestimates her because she's Saint Alicia, I meant how Eli commissioned a memoir and then tried to put recipes in it. Or how Ruth tried to have her do a cooking show. Or how Shakowsky refused to give her any cases in bond court out of spite, even though they were massively understaffed. Or how in the two final episodes, both Canning and Connor referred to Peter's cheating and then were shocked she didn't burst into tears on the spot. And that's just in the last season. Over and over, the idea that everyone underestimates Alicia and sees her as a weak stupid woman, but then she shows them all. We see it as a character beat over and over and (while I don't hate Alicia the way plenty of people do here) I think it's dumb. 

Besides, it was Alicia's job to save Peter. He was her client. That's what lawyers are supposed to do. 

[needschocolate]

I am not so sure Alicia ends up all alone (well, she will always have Grace, and since Grace is going to delay her first year of college and she can't live with her father in prison, she will probably have Grace living with her - not that Alicia will notice that she is there).  She may still have Jason. There have been many times Jason doesn't return her call/text right away - he seems to like to play hard to get.  Sure, she chased after a guy who ended up not being Jason, but Jason not being there is not the same as Jason being gone (unless there was something that I missed). 

I am going to miss making fun of the silliness that is The Good Wife at times and reading everyone else's funny comments about the episodes. 

[Noreaster]

12 hours ago, Tetraneutron said:

I don't see that as Alicia being the victimizer, though. Any more than Canning or Patty Nyholm were supposed to be evil when they were trying to trick L/G/whoever into making a mistake. Is Cary also a bad guy because he started the new firm with Alicia? And didn't Cary use his Harvard connections to land clients? Or Will and Diane using their old friends? 

I disagree. I don't think she "tossed Diane's marriage under the bus" because Kurt was cheating on Diane regardless of what happened in that courtroom. If anything, if Diane is putting her pride over doing her job, Diane is the one at fault. When I said the show makes Alicia the victim against the big bad world that underestimates her because she's Saint Alicia, I meant how Eli commissioned a memoir and then tried to put recipes in it. Or how Ruth tried to have her do a cooking show. Or how Shakowsky refused to give her any cases in bond court out of spite, even though they were massively understaffed. Or how in the two final episodes, both Canning and Connor referred to Peter's cheating and then were shocked she didn't burst into tears on the spot. And that's just in the last season. Over and over, the idea that everyone underestimates Alicia and sees her as a weak stupid woman, but then she shows them all. We see it as a character beat over and over and (while I don't hate Alicia the way plenty of people do here) I think it's dumb. 

Besides, it was Alicia's job to save Peter. He was her client. That's what lawyers are supposed to do. 

Oh I agree with you.  I don't find Alicia to be any worse than the other characters. Saying she is a victimizer (I don't know if I like that word but it's what the Kings use) to me just means she does things that help her get ahead but also end up hurting others.  Of course, the writers have had to create obstacles for the character.  But the way she deals with them has changed over the course of the series. 

Edited May 16, 2016 by Noreaster

[ratgirlagogo]

I did not like the ending because it felt like it was done on the fly.  One of the interesting things about the show over the years for me was that Alicia was one of the least likeable characters, so that aspect of it bothered me not at all.

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I wasn't a big fan of the character of Jason, and he and Alicia had about as much chem as water and a cardboard box but damn do I like looking at Jeffrey Dean Morgan. I even watched that gawd awful Halle Berry show for him.

Seconded..  I'd add that Sex Wolf, Private Eye (thanks, Ms. Nussbaum) would be an equally apt description of Kalinda as a character.  I always loved looking at her too.

[albaniantv]

Not sure why the Kings thought it was important for anybody to be slapped, since they were writing mostly about lawyers, not the Three Stooges. I always wanted to ask them why, except for Alicia, nobody much was married on The Good Wife. The only ones I can remember were Kalinda and then Diane. So, as there were 3 wives left (I just can't count Jackie since for the 7 season run, she wasn't married). Kalinda was banished forever more; and, on her way out the door Diane slapped Alicia.

[Day2Day]

6 hours ago, albaniantv said:

Not sure why the Kings thought it was important for anybody to be slapped, since they were writing mostly about lawyers, not the Three Stooges.

   But.... I did laugh after the Diane slap, because it was soooooo lame !!!

[zxy556575]

What did I miss? Didn't Peter take Connor's final offer for a year's probation? If so, there was no reason for Grace to defer college.

[needschocolate]

10 hours ago, albaniantv said:

Not sure why the Kings thought it was important for anybody to be slapped, since they were writing mostly about lawyers, not the Three Stooges. I always wanted to ask them why, except for Alicia, nobody much was married on The Good Wife. The only ones I can remember were Kalinda and then Diane. So, as there were 3 wives left (I just can't count Jackie since for the 7 season run, she wasn't married). Kalinda was banished forever more; and, on her way out the door Diane slapped Alicia.

Are you sure they weren't trying to write for the Three Stooges?  Remember the hilarious antics over the years - the too small office, the eavesdropping through vents, the mix up with apartment numbers, the employee who telecommuted by being a screen on a segway, Elsbeth's crazy mind, the wacky judges, etc...?

As for the marriage thing -  they couldn't have people be married because everyone had to fall in love with Alicia, even though being married didn't stop Alicia and Peter from having sex with other people.  

[Noreaster]

4 hours ago, lordonia said:

What did I miss? Didn't Peter take Connor's final offer for a year's probation? If so, there was no reason for Grace to defer college.

I think that was part of the reason why Alicia worked so hard to keep Peter out of prison. She saw that Grace was putting her life on hold.  Also, Alicia might have felt obligated to stay by Peter's side if he were to go to prison (the show had other characters say this outright in case it wasn't obvious to viewers).  I think Alicia's actions in the finale were less about "standing by her man" and more about trying to rid herself of the marriage.  

[Driad]

I was surprised that Grace was planning to go to a college in California (and one I had heard of, Stanford or Berkeley).  Maybe she was already nervous about going so far away, and seized on her father's situation as an excuse to stay home.  She might be better off going to a (religious?) college near Chicago and near where Peter would be if he were sent to prison.  Was he being tried on state or federal charges?

[pennben]

I find it disappointing that when this show had years of wonderfully complicated characters they decided the ultimate story was about Alicia going from a victim to a victimizer. So I guess, at the very end, they saw her as the least interesting character of them all.  

[Noreaster]

1 hour ago, pennben said:

I find it disappointing that when this show had years of wonderfully complicated characters they decided the ultimate story was about Alicia going from a victim to a victimizer. So I guess, at the very end, they saw her as the least interesting character of them all.  

If I understand the Kings' interviews correctly, it sounds like they decided on Alicia's ending back in season 1. Personally, I would have preferred the slap to come in season 5 when Alicia was lacking self-awareness and betraying Will and Diane. What was that line from Will..."you're awful and you don't even know how awful you are"?  I think Alicia became a victimizer in earnest during that season, and then the show has treaded water in seasons 6 and 7 just so they could write their planned ending.  

[romantic idiot]

Yeah pretty much. I was over Alicia mid Season 3, and the snow really should have ended in Season 5 with her deciding to run for office. 

[KaveDweller]

On 5/16/2016 at 1:10 PM, Driad said:

I was surprised that Grace was planning to go to a college in California (and one I had heard of, Stanford or Berkeley).  Maybe she was already nervous about going so far away, and seized on her father's situation as an excuse to stay home.  She might be better off going to a (religious?) college near Chicago and near where Peter would be if he were sent to prison.  Was he being tried on state or federal charges?

I think the lawyer going after him was a federal prosecutor.

[cardigirl]

On 5/14/2016 at 5:35 PM, Noreaster said:

I didn't think the show's way of portraying Alicia as the victimizer in the finale worked particularly well either.  But I think there were plenty of instances over the seasons.  Her betrayal of Will and Diane when she split off from the firm with Cary, using her husband's influence to win clients (like Chum Hum), the somewhat shady things she did during the SA election (especially contrasted against the unrealistically good David Hyde Pierce character), taking Diane's offer to become name partner and lying to Cary about it.  Most of this had nothing to do with Peter.  

If Will and Diane had treated her fairly about the partnership, I could go along with the thought that she was becoming a victimizer after being treated SO WELL by them, but holy crap, those two used her just as much if not more.  Will gave her a chance because he had leftover feelings for her, and was being particularly chivalrous on that day she came to the offices.  But then he saw her work and began to realize she was a good lawyer.  And decided to start an affair with her.  One that Diane told him to end, and he neglected to tell Diane that Alicia had ended it already.  Hell, Diane was ready to let go of Will at one point in order to hang on to her firm. (When he was facing charges for stealing that money)  

I really got tired of all of the plotlines to start new firms or ice out some partner or another.  For me, the show worked best when they were tackling a thorny problem and the law got argued on both sides.  

And maybe I wasn't Diane's biggest fan, although I love Christine Baranski. 

[AudienceofOne]

I didn't see Alicia do anything particularly bad myself. Yes, she became more self-assured and was more likely to put her own interests first in later seasons. But what's wrong with that really? Was she supposed to spend the rest of her life being made a fool of by the asshole she married? I know this is post-mortem quarterbacking (that's the phrase, right?) but I don't know why they didn't go with her being State's Attorney. If anything was going to show her turning slowly into the victimizer, that was it. As it is, she lost that position because of Peter's corruption, corruption that she knew nothing about. And the show ended with her still knowing nothing about it.

[ktwo]

Quote

I didn't see Alicia do anything particularly bad myself.

The one thing I found completely unforgivable was that she founded her own firm with Cary and then IMMEDATELY started running for office. Running for an office that would necessitate her leaving that business if she won the election. Starting a business is a hell of a lot of work and she completely bailed. There were major decisions being made about the firm, employees, clients, cases that she wasn't there for because she was meeting with Eli or party bosses or donors about running. 

[renatae]

I have not been on the Good Wife forum much, and I definitely did not realize how much viewers hated Alicia. I also think I have not been paying close enough attention since, except for the ridiculous musical partnerships/firms, I can't really remember how Alicia has let Cary down. Although, of course, that was enough, but my memories of who did what to whom during those shakeups are pretty dim. (I have to confess to a declining memory overall.) I felt she did her best to help him, or at least was definitely on his side, during that awful mess about the drug charges/jail. The same for Kalinda. Although I felt she held a ridiculous grudge for an extended amount of time over Kalinda's affair with Mr. Big, I had felt she had finally put that to rest, and was also on Kalinda's side and trying to help, insofar as Kalinda allowed her, during her problems with the drug kingpin. And then again, maybe I was either not paying close enough attention, or I have just forgotten.

I didn't see her as victimizer as much as someone who was often in situations where she acted expediently more than carelessly. I felt she paid a personal price each time she compromised.

 

Fire away!

Edited May 20, 2016 by renatae

[legaleagle53]

On 5/18/2016 at 1:57 PM, AudienceofOne said:

 I know this is post-mortem quarterbacking (that's the phrase, right?)

You mixed your metaphors a little.  The phrase is "Monday-morning quarterbacking."  It refers to the practice of second-guessing the way teams played and the coaching decisions that were made during the previous day's football games.

Edited May 22, 2016 by legaleagle53

[TigerLynx]

On 5/18/2016 at 3:57 PM, AudienceofOne said:

I didn't see Alicia do anything particularly bad myself. Yes, she became more self-assured and was more likely to put her own interests first in later seasons. But what's wrong with that really? Was she supposed to spend the rest of her life being made a fool of by the asshole she married? I know this is post-mortem quarterbacking (that's the phrase, right?) but I don't know why they didn't go with her being State's Attorney. If anything was going to show her turning slowly into the victimizer, that was it. As it is, she lost that position because of Peter's corruption, corruption that she knew nothing about. And the show ended with her still knowing nothing about it.

 

On 5/20/2016 at 6:10 AM, renatae said:

I have not been on the Good Wife forum much, and I definitely did not realize how much viewers hated Alicia. I also think I have not been paying close enough attention since, except for the ridiculous musical partnerships/firms, I can't really remember how Alicia has let Cary down. Although, of course, that was enough, but my memories of who did what to whom during those shakeups are pretty dim. (I have to confess to a declining memory overall.) I felt she did her best to help him, or at least was definitely on his side, during that awful mess about the drug charges/jail. The same for Kalinda. Although I felt she held a ridiculous grudge for an extended amount of time over Kalinda's affair with Mr. Big, I had felt she had finally put that to rest, and was also on Kalinda's side and trying to help, insofar as Kalinda allowed her, during her problems with the drug kingpin. And then again, maybe I was either not paying close enough attention, or I have just forgotten.

I didn't see her as victimizer as much as someone who was often in situations where she acted expediently more than carelessly. I felt she paid a personal price each time she compromised.

 

Fire away!

I didn't think Alicia did anything that horrible either.  I kept waiting for Alicia to become her own person, live her own life, and get the hell away from Peter.  That never happened.  Alicia kept getting sucked back in.  If the writers' plan was to turn Alicia into Peter or make her as corrupt as he was, they failed.  As other posters have said either commit and go big, or go home.  Diane slapping Alicia was lame.  I'm so glad Josh Charles showed up for the final episode.  Will and Alicia's scenes were the only ones I enjoyed.

[Noreaster]

I still suspect that the show originally intended Alicia to be the SA.  There was a definite trajectory for the character to become more morally corrupt.  But then the show backtracked for whatever reason and her "growth" just stalled.  

[Catznip]

10 minutes ago, Noreaster said:

I still suspect that the show originally intended Alicia to be the SA.  There was a definite trajectory for the character to become more morally corrupt.  But then the show backtracked for whatever reason and her "growth" just stalled.  

I love the character as well as JM performance. I also think there was too much drama backstage that the Kings just didn't push the development or SL for Alicia. I do hope the show gets picked up by Netflix or some other network as I always enjoy watching  JM kick azz and those eyes!

[halkatla]

I haven´t been paying attention to the show for the last 2 seasons, and I found this episode lacking. Can anyone explain to me why Diane slapped Alicia? Was it because of the infidelity issue only? And are we supposed to wonder if Jason was gonna still be her boyfriend or what? I´m confused. At least they didn´t ruin Cary.

[needschocolate]

On 5/31/2016 at 8:47 AM, halkatla said:

I haven´t been paying attention to the show for the last 2 seasons, and I found this episode lacking. Can anyone explain to me why Diane slapped Alicia? Was it because of the infidelity issue only? And are we supposed to wonder if Jason was gonna still be her boyfriend or what? I´m confused. At least they didn´t ruin Cary.

Diane slapped Alicia because the writers/producers decided long, long ago that they wanted to the series to end with Alicia getting slapped, and it probably didn't seem right to have it be a man, so it had to be either Lucca or Diane.  As for the reasoning as it pertains to the plot, the infidelity issue was the only one they offered, as far as I could tell. Diane and Alicia were going to start a firm together and seemed to be getting along better than in prior years when no one slapped anyone else.  

I think we are supposed to come to our own conclusions as to whether Jason is gone for good, or just didn't happen to be there when Alicia thought he was but he is waiting in his boxers in her apartment when she gets home from the face-slapping. I think those in charge thought that viewers were more interested in the Jason-Alicia relationship than most actually were.