S07.E08: Didn't Mean It

[ReadMeLattice]

50 minutes ago, Tatum said:

With regards to Chuck E Cheese- they stamp the hands of every kid that comes through and give the adult with them a matching stamp. If Nathan tried to leave with the baby, the staff would stop him. Now granted they aren't cops, but they probably WOULD call the cops if Nathan ignored them and ran off with Kaiser. I'm guessing that would probably be embarrassing enough that Nathan would not do it. That likely was Jenelle's sole reason for picking that place, as Kaiser is a little young for most of the things there.

 

At my nieces birthday party there, my sister-in-law brought several kids besides her own when she walked in the building. When the parents came to pick them up and then tried to leave with their own kids the staff stopped them at the door and wouldn't let them pass.

My SIL had to accompany all the kids she'd brought in out of the building. Not sure what would've happened had she already left.

But couldn't he have done that on purpose to get Kaiser back? Cops might be called and then he could show proof of his rights over the child. I mean, it's not like Chuck E. Cheese has actual authority. Maybe I'm wrong? I just feel like he could have taken more drastic measures if he was truly being kept from him, but maybe that's not true. Seems to me like Dave would be the one who could be accused of "kidnapping." 

I'm pretty sure you can have an immediate order issued to see your own child that the other parent cannot refuse. But maybe with all the violent people involved in this poor kid's life and the various criminal records of Jenelle, Nathan, and David, the lawyers avoided that route? 

Edited May 9, 2016 by Lm2162

[TaxNerd]

Exactly!  Chuck E Cheese is the perfect place to raise a scene because they WILL call the cops!  Of course Nathan didn't know how old Kaiser was, so maybe he was afraid if he showed up with a lawyer and the cops, he wouldn't be able to pick Kaiser out of the crowd.

[Tatum]

9 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

But couldn't he have done that on purpose to get Kaiser back? Cops might be called and then he could show proof of his rights over the child. I mean, it's not like Chuck E. Cheese has actual authority. Maybe I'm wrong? I just feel like he could have taken more drastic measures if he was truly being kept from him, but maybe that's not true. Seems to me like Dave would be the one who could be accused of "kidnapping." 

I'm not sure what would happen if the cops were called. It might all get straightened out but I'm not sure how long it would take- the cops just can't take Nathan at his word that he's Kaiser's bio father or that there's no custody order in place- not sure how they'd verify but probably take awhile and would be traumatizing for Kaiser. Not that these two give a shit about what's best for him but I have to assume Nathan's lawyer warned him against any kind of shenanigans like grabbing Kaiser and letting the local cops figure out what to do about it. 

[ReadMeLattice]

Ah-- yes, there are emergency temporary custody orders and emergency orders for visitation rights for fathers. While waiting for the larger custody battle, why hasn't Nathan sought one? Unless he has and was denied, which seems unlikely? I've always thought his earnest "need to see my son" act was at least partially that--an act--for the cameras/gf/his sudden good guy narrative. The fact that he'd go hang out with Dave and see Kaiser for an hour, at reunion shows, etc., instead of forcing the issue with an emergency order makes the whole thing look extremely suspect.

I feel like a birth certificate would easily confirm, right? 

Edited May 9, 2016 by Lm2162

[AdorkableWitch]

Emergency orders can be difficult to obtain, and most law enforcement won't enforce it. He would have to go BACK to court to get another order of contempt, and then maybe get an order of enforcement.

[Tatum]

Well a birth certificate would show that he was the bio dad, but plenty of bio dads don't have custody. In fact, to use my example- let's say my daughter went with my SIL to Chuck E Cheese and then I met them there, and my SIL left. If I tried to leave with my daughter, and the cops got called, how would I explain who I was and that I did have the right to leave with her? I mean, I'm her bio mom and she lives with me and I don't have any custody disputes, but how could I prove that, on the spot, in the Chuck E Cheese building? I am sure it would eventually get sorted out but not how I want to spend my day. Now I'm honestly curious. My SIL was still in the building when her friend tried to leave with his daughter, so she just ran up front and showed them her stamp, but I always wondered what he would have done otherwise.

 

Regardless, if Nathan weren't involved in a custody dispute in real time, I would certainly agree he'd much rather pay lip service to wanting to see his son rather than take actual steps to see him. I wonder if maybe he didn't bother because Jenelle was more agreeable about splitting custody with him before Jessica was involved? Or maybe he was waiting until filming started to give himself a storyline? Who knows with this pack of winners.

[ReadMeLattice]

@Tatum, I've also wondered how much the custody issues were built up for MTV. Of course those two idiots had no custody order ever in place, which is really the main problem. Technically, also, they have both committed parental kidnapping. In NC, that can apply to taking the child out of state without permission (as Nathan and maybe also Jenelle did?) and to keeping the child away from the other parent (Jenelle). But since they had no official custody order, there's no way to prove that, so it would be too ambiguous and dicey to hold up as a charge. So Nathan put himself in a position with zero power, and Jenelle bitched and moaned about Kaiser being taken out of state constituting kidnapping without having any actual custody agreement to back it up. These people never think about what they're doing and then they want to make a big deal out of it when the other one breaks technically nonexistent rules. 

[BitterApple]

The crazy shit always goes down at Chuck E Cheese. I read a newspaper article where a police chief was saying they get more call outs for fights at Chuck E Cheese than they do for the biker bar down the street.

It's the perfect location for a Dave/Jenelle/Nathan pizza throwing, table flipping brawl.

[Mkay]

 

I found this. I had read about it before when looking for other information for myself. 

[NikSac]

5 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

The crazy shit always goes down at Chuck E Cheese. I read a newspaper article where a police chief was saying they get more call outs for fights at Chuck E Cheese than they do for the biker bar down the street.

It's the perfect location for a Dave/Jenelle/Nathan pizza throwing, table flipping brawl.

Well when you combine 800 different loud video games all at once, a giant scary looking rat, beer/wine (at many locations), and really horrible pizza as your best food option, it's not all that surprising. Then add in screaming kids, and emotions running high when people are with their kids. I agree, I can totally see a Dave/Jenelle/Nathan brawl here. Maybe Jessi (is that her name?) will get in on the action too.

[DangerousMinds]

5 hours ago, TaxNerd said:

She may have been informally asked to leave also, since she is on a reality show, or told she would have to choose.

And she chose a reality show??

5 hours ago, smores said:

If she left because she got married and was going to be helping with the kids/having her baby, I don't see that as a step backwards for feminism.  I've always viewed feminism as the ability to make the best choice for you and your situation.  For some women, it's having a career, being a lawyer, maybe, and not apologizing for staying on track with that while also having a family.  But, for other women, that may very well mean being a stay at home mother.  Or, a housewife.  If you are able to pay your bills and it's the situation that works best for your family and it is what you CHOOSE to do, then I don't see it as anti-feminism.  

Now, if Cory was standing there saying, Get in the kitchen, make my dinner, clean up this house, and why are these kids running around screaming? Well, that would be a different story.  But, he was married to Leah, so we can pretty much assume that he's not that guy, otherwise Leah might have some sort of household skills.  LOL!

Or Cory could have stayed home (or worked part time) to take care of his own kids?

[shelley1234]

Feminism is women having all the choices...including the choice to stay home and be with the kids.  It sounds like Miranda made the choice that she wanted to and is best for her, so that's a feminist choice in my book.  

[ReadMeLattice]

I really doubt Miranda would be caught dead describing herself as a feminist. And that's fine with me, it's up to every individual person. 

[GreatKazu]

7 hours ago, TaxNerd said:

Something I keep thinking about: when Kaiser and Nathan were on a playdate at Chuck E Cheese with Jenelle's boyfriend, what was to prevent Nathan from just taking the kid?  

I mean if police got involved, wouldn't they have to let Nathan take the kid home?  If I were Nathan, I would show up to the playdate with his birth certificate, my ID, and my lawyer.  Of course, maybe that's why I have custody of my kids!  

This was all mentioned back when Jenelle mentioned on camera what her lawyer told her about her not being able to charge Nathan with kidnapping.  Without a custody order, Jenelle cannot charge Nathan with kidnapping. Could Nathan take off with his son from any public place he nay be? Likely, yes. 

A birth certificate only means Nathan's name is listed as the bio father. Plenty of bio fathers do not have custody.

Nathan, just like Jenelle, could easily file documents to set a date for a hearing in order to obtain a custody and visitation order. The question is, why are they both sitting on this rather than being proactive? Likely because the control is no longer in Jenelle's hands and Nathan would have to pay child support.

[ReadMeLattice]

2 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

This was all mentioned back when Jenelle mentioned on camera what her lawyer told her about her not being able to charge Nathan with kidnapping.  Without a custody order, Jenelle cannot charge Nathan with kidnapping. Could Nathan take off with his son from any public place he nay be? Likely, yes. 

A birth certificate only means Nathan's name is listed as the bio father. Plenty of bio fathers do not have custody.

Nathan, just like Jenelle, could easily file documents to set a date for a hearing in order to obtain a custody and visitation order. The question is, why are they both sitting on this rather than being proactive? Likely because the control is no longer in Jenelle's hands and Nathan would have to pay child support.

I think he has now done this, but he certainly waited until he got a girlfriend and was back on MTV to do so. His motivations are anything but pure. The only thing he needed to do if she kept his son from him for months upon months was file a complaint, MUCH earlier. Instead, he posted about it on Twitter. Did she file when he "kidnapped" Kaiser? Nope. Just bitched. It's clearly a back and forth dick measuring contest with them. That's all. 

[GreatKazu]

Right. I mentioned before how Nathan is shown on camera bitching about not seeing his son and yet, has not taken the legal measures to ensure his rights to see that child are secured. 

Nathan is like Jenelle in that they are more concerned with their next MTV check.  If fighting about seeing Kaiser s all they have going on, then what else will MTV show? 

[ReadMeLattice]

@GreatKazu They could just do a reel of both of them butchering the English language and I'd be set. Dramastically, paranalia, parental ellenation, "That's all he knows what to talk about."

Edited May 10, 2016 by Lm2162

[Brooklynista]

I learned all I needed to know about how much either of these two fuckwits wanted custody of Kaiser when they played Hot Potato with each other trying to pass him off.  I've never seen two more concerned parents dodge their kid so hard.

Each of them driving down the road at warp speed like Super Mario Cart so Nathan could gym and Janelle could chase new dick.

 

eta: because I forgot to add fuckwit

Edited May 10, 2016 by Brooklynista

[StatisticalOutlier]

4 hours ago, NikSac said:

Well when you combine 800 different loud video games all at once, a giant scary looking rat, beer/wine (at many locations), and really horrible pizza as your best food option, it's not all that surprising.

As if that weren't bad enough, the actual/official name of the place is Chuck E. Cheese's, with the apostrophe-S, which annoys me no end for some reason. 

[Christina]

I know in real time the paperwork has been filed, but I can't tell how long after the split it happened because the timelines of this show are so wonky. It's never linear, and what happens in one week in real time looks like it happened over several months on the show, and none of the people are on the same timeline. I doubt Janelle and Nathan are even on the same timeline. It irritates me to no end trying to figure out when things happened. 

[GreatKazu]

5 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

11 minutes ago, Christina said:

 

Or Cory could have stayed home (or worked part time) to take care of his own kids?

And lose his health insurance? In this case I think the whole men and women being equal should not apply since Cory's earnings and health coverage outweighs anything Miranda would have pulled in at her job,not to mention he pays child support and continued to play the same amount veven after Leah's visitation was changed.

[blubld43]

Quote

I learned all I needed to know about how much either of these two fuckwits wanted custody of Kaiser when they played Hot Potato with each other trying to pass him off.  I've never seen two more concerned parents dodge their kid so hard.

This right here.  I remember that as well; it's so sad to me that both of them were too selfish to give Kaiser for adoption.  He's such a cute little chubster; of course, that's because Jenelle keeps him penned up most of the time, and feeds him whatever crap she has around.

[lezlers]

On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 1:04 PM, Lm2162 said:

Ah-- yes, there are emergency temporary custody orders and emergency orders for visitation rights for fathers. While waiting for the larger custody battle, why hasn't Nathan sought one? Unless he has and was denied, which seems unlikely? I've always thought his earnest "need to see my son" act was at least partially that--an act--for the cameras/gf/his sudden good guy narrative. The fact that he'd go hang out with Dave and see Kaiser for an hour, at reunion shows, etc., instead of forcing the issue with an emergency order makes the whole thing look extremely suspect.

I feel like a birth certificate would easily confirm, right? 

This is my biggest problem with Nathan.  Put up or shut up, dude.   You either want visitation/custody or you don't.   You can't bitch and moan about how Jenelle is "keeping" your son from you while not doing the bare minimum to actually get visitation.  It's annoying.   Walk the walk, beefcake.

[lezlers]

22 hours ago, shelley1005 said:

Feminism is women having all the choices...including the choice to stay home and be with the kids.  It sounds like Miranda made the choice that she wanted to and is best for her, so that's a feminist choice in my book.  

I agree with you on that.  My only issue with Miranda (assuming she quit immediately after locking Corey down and for no other reason) is the specific career she chose (a male dominated field), with all of the work and requirements going into it, then to just walk away, almost immediately, as soon as she gets a ring on her finger.  That's the kind of thing that makes it so much harder for the rest of us in male dominated professions to be taken seriously. It perpetuates the myth that a woman can't manage to have a career and a family at the same time (isn't it funny how no one says that about a man?)

But like you said, feminism is all about choices and the ability to choose.  That's why my issue is more about the timing of her choice than anything else.  It's not like she had Remi, went out on maternity leave and didn't come back.  She left the second she got a ring, which makes it look like she was only biding her time until she found a good man to "take care of her."  If that was the case, why a cop?  Shit man, just get a job at the damn mall.

[Tatum]

57 minutes ago, lezlers said:

This is my biggest problem with Nathan.  Put up or shut up, dude.   You either want visitation/custody or you don't.   You can't bitch and moan about how Jenelle is "keeping" your son from you while not doing the bare minimum to actually get visitation.  It's annoying.   Walk the walk, beefcake.

I used to wait tables at this corner bar that lots of single blue collar workers in their 20s and 30s flocked to (basically Leah's personal version of heaven) and a lot of these guys had kids with former partners. To hear them (well most of them) tell it, it was same story over and over. His bitch of an ex was a spiteful, scorned woman who withheld custody in retaliation for the guy breaking up with her or refusing to take her back after she cheated on him (in every version she either cheated or was a psycho). And while at first you're thinking wow what a bitch, here's a guy who wants to be a dad and she's blocking him, then you start to listen a little more carefully. 

 

What quickly becomes apparent is the guy doesn't actually want custody or even regular visitation. What he wants is for his ex to do all the heavy lifting both parenting and financially, and when he decides (generally very last minute) that he'd like to spend some time with his kid, he expects Ex to be entirely flexible to this whim and also retrieve the kid the instant he gets bored or wants to do something else. And he generally wants to do something fun and impractical and is pretty unconcerned with returning kid to his ex hopped up on sugar or caffeine or adrenaline. And if she balks, either because she already had plans or objects to last minute requests on principle, well then SHE'S the bitch who is keeping the kid away. And if he only gets this whim once every 6 months and is a year behind on child support- well that's irrelevant.

That whole spiel is just to say that's how I see Nathan. And Adam. And Jenelle (with Jace).

[ReadMeLattice]

19 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I used to wait tables at this corner bar that lots of single blue collar workers in their 20s and 30s flocked to (basically Leah's personal version of heaven) and a lot of these guys had kids with former partners. To hear them (well most of them) tell it, it was same story over and over. His bitch of an ex was a spiteful, scorned woman who withheld custody in retaliation for the guy breaking up with her or refusing to take her back after she cheated on him (in every version she either cheated or was a psycho). And while at first you're thinking wow what a bitch, here's a guy who wants to be a dad and she's blocking him, then you start to listen a little more carefully. 

 

What quickly becomes apparent is the guy doesn't actually want custody or even regular visitation. What he wants is for his ex to do all the heavy lifting both parenting and financially, and when he decides (generally very last minute) that he'd like to spend some time with his kid, he expects Ex to be entirely flexible to this whim and also retrieve the kid the instant he gets bored or wants to do something else. And he generally wants to do something fun and impractical and is pretty unconcerned with returning kid to his ex hopped up on sugar or caffeine or adrenaline. And if she balks, either because she already had plans or objects to last minute requests on principle, well then SHE'S the bitch who is keeping the kid away. And if he only gets this whim once every 6 months and is a year behind on child support- well that's irrelevant.

That whole spiel is just to say that's how I see Nathan. And Adam. And Jenelle (with Jace).

Remember the "gym time" Kaiser fight last season? 

Dead on. 

This version of events is more confusing than, say, Chelsea and Adam, because Nathan and Jenelle are evenly matched in terms of manipulative and dishonest nature. And if Nathan gets Kaiser, he will parade him around on social media and make some people believe he's a good person, like Jenelle does now. But neither of them can fool me. Case in point, Nathan is to his daughter what Jenelle is to Jace, or even LESS involved. Why should we believe either of them care about the roll when their older kids are essentially their siblings or baby cousins?

Edited May 10, 2016 by Lm2162

[neatoburrito]

12 hours ago, lezlers said:

I agree with you on that.  My only issue with Miranda (assuming she quit immediately after locking Corey down and for no other reason) is the specific career she chose (a male dominated field), with all of the work and requirements going into it, then to just walk away, almost immediately, as soon as she gets a ring on her finger.  That's the kind of thing that makes it so much harder for the rest of us in male dominated professions to be taken seriously. It perpetuates the myth that a woman can't manage to have a career and a family at the same time (isn't it funny how no one says that about a man?)

But like you said, feminism is all about choices and the ability to choose.  That's why my issue is more about the timing of her choice than anything else.  It's not like she had Remi, went out on maternity leave and didn't come back.  She left the second she got a ring, which makes it look like she was only biding her time until she found a good man to "take care of her."  If that was the case, why a cop?  Shit man, just get a job at the damn mall.

That still doesn't mean that women who make the same choices as Miranda are to blame for how women in male-dominated professions are viewed. Are you saying that women should shoulder the responsibility of representing their gender, rather than making decisions that are in their own interests? I agree with you that women in male-dominated professions are more than often treated unfairly, but it's not any woman's responsibility to try to right that by going against any stereotypes, that's a problem with society. 

[Tatum]

Of course everyone should do what's right for them, but it does seem strange to me to pick a field that has SO many hoops to jump through (my friend is trying to get on one of 7 counties within our metro area- she applied to all county and city police departments and it is insane the amount of interviews, background checks, physical tests she has to pass) if you have no intention of working after marriage. Particularly in an area where marrying young is the norm. 

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

17 hours ago, Tatum said:

I used to wait tables at this corner bar that lots of single blue collar workers in their 20s and 30s flocked to (basically Leah's personal version of heaven) and a lot of these guys had kids with former partners. To hear them (well most of them) tell it, it was same story over and over. His bitch of an ex was a spiteful, scorned woman who withheld custody in retaliation for the guy breaking up with her or refusing to take her back after she cheated on him (in every version she either cheated or was a psycho). And while at first you're thinking wow what a bitch, here's a guy who wants to be a dad and she's blocking him, then you start to listen a little more carefully. 

 

What quickly becomes apparent is the guy doesn't actually want custody or even regular visitation. What he wants is for his ex to do all the heavy lifting both parenting and financially, and when he decides (generally very last minute) that he'd like to spend some time with his kid, he expects Ex to be entirely flexible to this whim and also retrieve the kid the instant he gets bored or wants to do something else. And he generally wants to do something fun and impractical and is pretty unconcerned with returning kid to his ex hopped up on sugar or caffeine or adrenaline. And if she balks, either because she already had plans or objects to last minute requests on principle, well then SHE'S the bitch who is keeping the kid away. And if he only gets this whim once every 6 months and is a year behind on child support- well that's irrelevant.

That whole spiel is just to say that's how I see Nathan. And Adam. And Jenelle (with Jace).

Yep. I live in an area populated with guys who work in well-paying blue-collar jobs like working for the railroad or the chemical plant (here those are really good jobs) and yes, almost all of the ones who are divorced from or broken up with a baby mama tell this SAME EXACT STORY. She cheated, she's crazy, she keeps the kids from me, blah blah....

Granted, most of these women are NOT like Jenelle and are doing all of the heavy lifting of parenting themselves and are not crazy at all.

Edited May 11, 2016 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[lezlers]

6 hours ago, neatoburrito said:

That still doesn't mean that women who make the same choices as Miranda are to blame for how women in male-dominated professions are viewed. Are you saying that women should shoulder the responsibility of representing their gender, rather than making decisions that are in their own interests? I agree with you that women in male-dominated professions are more than often treated unfairly, but it's not any woman's responsibility to try to right that by going against any stereotypes, that's a problem with society. 

Of course they are.   I work in a male dominated profession.  I have to work twice as hard to gain the respect of others in my field because I'm a woman.  Why is that?  Because society is still stuck in the outdated notion that a woman's primary place is in the home.  We're "allowed" to work, so long as our primary obligations: taking care of a man and our babies, are met.  If a woman works while married or with kids it's only because she "has" to, not because she actually wants to.  Women like Miranda perpetuate that stereotype.   If you want to be a stay at home wife and/or mom, great.   That's awesome and I'm glad we live in a society where you're free to make that choice.  But to bust your butt to break into a male dominated profession (likely taking a spot away from someone else who has dreamt of being an officer) only to turn around and leave 5 minutes later once you have a man makes it more difficult for the rest of us to fight the stereotype.  Is it your right?  Absolutely.  Are you free to choose?  You betcha.  Does it hurt other women trying to be taken seriously in the workplace?  Yeah, it does.  

That's just my opinion.   I'm guessing West Virginia isn't exactly a hotbed of progressiveness anyway. 

[ReadMeLattice]

@lezlers, I think that's true, but I don't think Miranda or anyone she is around (as you say) is a feminist in any sense of the word. She probably just got what she felt was a reliable, respectable job and promptly left when she found a man. That would seem, in her cultural context, to make sense, I guess? And the reality show $ probably helps, as it's not like she NEEDS to work. I think the politics of what you're saying are dead-on though.

What is Corey's job? Coal miner? Or is that just a stereotype I made up?

Edited May 11, 2016 by Lm2162

[CofCinci]

6 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

@lezlers, I think that's true, but I don't think Miranda or anyone she is around (as you say) is a feminist in any sense of the word. She probably just got what she felt was a reliable, respectable job and promptly left when she found a man. That would seem, in her cultural context, to make sense, I guess? And the reality show $ probably helps, as it's not like she NEEDS to work. I think the politics of what you're saying are dead-on though.

What is Corey's job? Coal miner? Or is that just a stereotype I made up?

He works for the public water utility in WV. 

[ReadMeLattice]

He was a coal miner at one time though, right? I really hope I'm not just making that up, lol.

Speaking of Mama Dawn, I'd pay to see her reaction to T.R. Dues. 

[neatoburrito]

35 minutes ago, lezlers said:

Of course they are.   I work in a male dominated profession.  I have to work twice as hard to gain the respect of others in my field because I'm a woman.  Why is that?  Because society is still stuck in the outdated notion that a woman's primary place is in the home.  We're "allowed" to work, so long as our primary obligations: taking care of a man and our babies, are met.  If a woman works while married or with kids it's only because she "has" to, not because she actually wants to.  Women like Miranda perpetuate that stereotype.   If you want to be a stay at home wife and/or mom, great.   That's awesome and I'm glad we live in a society where you're free to make that choice.  But to bust your butt to break into a male dominated profession (likely taking a spot away from someone else who has dreamt of being an officer) only to turn around and leave 5 minutes later once you have a man makes it more difficult for the rest of us to fight the stereotype.  Is it your right?  Absolutely.  Are you free to choose?  You betcha.  Does it hurt other women trying to be taken seriously in the workplace?  Yeah, it does.  

That's just my opinion.   I'm guessing West Virginia isn't exactly a hotbed of progressiveness anyway. 

I think the people who don't take women seriously in the workplace are the only people who hurt women trying to progress in male-dominated fields. Not the other women who are just doing what's right for them and their lives at any given time. JMO. 

[DNR]

I find myself getting extremely pissed off when I watch Janelles segments ; to the point where I have to FF.  ( Leah is next on my " I wanna throw things at my TV when you're on " list ).  

At least the Girlses have Corey , poor Jace & the Roll are flying solo ( Babs won't be around forever) 

?????

[dabronx]

1 hour ago, lezlers said:

Of course they are.   I work in a male dominated profession.  I have to work twice as hard to gain the respect of others in my field because I'm a woman.  Why is that?  Because society is still stuck in the outdated notion that a woman's primary place is in the home.  We're "allowed" to work, so long as our primary obligations: taking care of a man and our babies, are met.  If a woman works while married or with kids it's only because she "has" to, not because she actually wants to.  Women like Miranda perpetuate that stereotype.   If you want to be a stay at home wife and/or mom, great.   That's awesome and I'm glad we live in a society where you're free to make that choice.  But to bust your butt to break into a male dominated profession (likely taking a spot away from someone else who has dreamt of being an officer) only to turn around and leave 5 minutes later once you have a man makes it more difficult for the rest of us to fight the stereotype.  Is it your right?  Absolutely.  Are you free to choose?  You betcha.  Does it hurt other women trying to be taken seriously in the workplace?  Yeah, it does.  

That's just my opinion.   I'm guessing West Virginia isn't exactly a hotbed of progressiveness anyway. 

Women leaving the workforce are to blame for the misogyny that women face in the workforce? Because men aren't capable of rational thought? A woman chooses to leave a position and a man points to it as an example of how useless women are at work and that's the woman's fault? Because the man didn't happen to have that misogyny embedded in his brain until the women gave him an example to point to? Where have I heard that thinking before.... oh yes in almost every other instance where women's actions are blamed for the thought patterns and behavior of the misogynist around us. How very progressive of you indeed.

[Tatum]

I don't think it's unprogressive to point out that people don't break unfair stereotypes by perpetuating them. In Miranda's area, it probably is quite normal to quit working after marriage for women, and perhaps her coworkers expected it of her, and then she does it. That does not mean Miranda is personally responsible for her female successor not being taken seriously in the workplace by her male coworkers. It just means it's disappointing that Miranda would jump through all those hoops to join the police force and then completely revert to type after marriage. For her to make that kind of commitment in the first place, it must have been something important to her. I hope it was her own choice to defer her career and not pressure from her family or Corey.

[neatoburrito]

55 minutes ago, dabronx said:

Women leaving the workforce are to blame for the misogyny that women face in the workforce? Because men aren't capable of rational thought? A woman chooses to leave a position and a man points to it as an example of how useless women are at work and that's the woman's fault? Because the man didn't happen to have that misogyny embedded in his brain until the women gave him an example to point to? Where have I heard that thinking before.... oh yes in almost every other instance where women's actions are blamed for the thought patterns and behavior of the misogynist around us. How very progressive of you indeed.

This a thousand times over. There's something wrong with your politics if you think misogyny in the workplace is somehow still women's fault *eye roll*

Edited May 11, 2016 by neatoburrito

[ghoulina]

The fact is, we have no idea why Miranda quit working. Maybe it was because after getting into her career, she realized it wasn't for her. It happens every day. Maybe it was because the commute was too much. Maybe she genuinely WANTED to be more available for Corey's kids. Whatever it was, given what we've seen of Miranda, it seems to have been HER choice, and that's all that really matters to me. I don't think she has a responsibility to anyone other than herself and her family. 

[CofCinci]

Just now, ghoulina said:

The fact is, we have no idea why Miranda quit working. Maybe it was because after getting into her career, she realized it wasn't for her. It happens every day. Maybe it was because the commute was too much. Maybe she genuinely WANTED to be more available for Corey's kids. Whatever it was, given what we've seen of Miranda, it seems to have been HER choice, and that's all that really matters to me. I don't think she has a responsibility to anyone other than herself and her family. 

Praise! 

Regardless of why Miranda left the police career, she's a great caregiver to Leah's children. Too bad Leah doesn't appreciate Miranda's role and presence in the Twinses' lives. 

[lezlers]

1 hour ago, dabronx said:

Women leaving the workforce are to blame for the misogyny that women face in the workforce? Because men aren't capable of rational thought? A woman chooses to leave a position and a man points to it as an example of how useless women are at work and that's the woman's fault? Because the man didn't happen to have that misogyny embedded in his brain until the women gave him an example to point to? Where have I heard that thinking before.... oh yes in almost every other instance where women's actions are blamed for the thought patterns and behavior of the misogynist around us. How very progressive of you indeed.

Nowhere in my post did I blame misogyny in the workplace solely on women.  As I very carefully laid out, my opinion is based solely on the timing of Miranda leaving, coupled with the type of job she left.  That's all.  If you disagree, great.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  Let's try to stay respectful, though. 

25 minutes ago, neatoburrito said:

This a thousand times over. There's something wrong with your politics if you think misogyny in the workplace is somehow still women's fault *eye roll*

Eyeroll indeed.  As stated above, I said nothing of the sort.

45 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I don't think it's unprogressive to point out that people don't break unfair stereotypes by perpetuating them. In Miranda's area, it probably is quite normal to quit working after marriage for women, and perhaps her coworkers expected it of her, and then she does it. That does not mean Miranda is personally responsible for her female successor not being taken seriously in the workplace by her male coworkers. It just means it's disappointing that Miranda would jump through all those hoops to join the police force and then completely revert to type after marriage. For her to make that kind of commitment in the first place, it must have been something important to her. I hope it was her own choice to defer her career and not pressure from her family or Corey.

THANK YOU.  This is exactly what I was trying to say.  Everyone needs to take a breath and put the pitchforks down.  Yeesh.

Edited May 11, 2016 by lezlers

[dabronx]

8 minutes ago, lezlers said:

As I very carefully laid out, my opinion is based solely on the timing of Miranda leaving, coupled with the type of job she left. 

I'm curious to understand from others viewpoint - under what circumstances would it have been less damaging for Miranda to leave? Men and Women alike leave jobs, professions, or the workforce in general typically for exactly the reasons Miranda may have - commute too long, work too stressful, strain of familial commitments vs time requirements at work, costs of daycare vs. pay when children arrive, safety concerns, etc. Often these choices present themselves exactly because of live changing events such as marriage or children. I come from a family of law enforcement at every level (local, state, federal) and all of them have made changes in their jobs for exactly these types of reasons and either in the time period leading up to, or directly after life changing events. Most of them were men, a few are women. In all cases co-workers were very understanding - mostly because they were all making the same choices in their careers too.  They tend to shake their head more if someone seems to leave or change things up for no apparent "reason". 

[DangerousMinds]

How many men have left their jobs because of the cost of childcare? 

[lezlers]

49 minutes ago, dabronx said:

I'm curious to understand from others viewpoint - under what circumstances would it have been less damaging for Miranda to leave? Men and Women alike leave jobs, professions, or the workforce in general typically for exactly the reasons Miranda may have - commute too long, work too stressful, strain of familial commitments vs time requirements at work, costs of daycare vs. pay when children arrive, safety concerns, etc. Often these choices present themselves exactly because of live changing events such as marriage or children. I come from a family of law enforcement at every level (local, state, federal) and all of them have made changes in their jobs for exactly these types of reasons and either in the time period leading up to, or directly after life changing events. Most of them were men, a few are women. In all cases co-workers were very understanding - mostly because they were all making the same choices in their careers too.  They tend to shake their head more if someone seems to leave or change things up for no apparent "reason". 

That's why I've mentioned numerous times in my posts that I have no idea why Miranda left so my opinions are based on the assumption that she left because she was only there until she found herself a man.  Everything I've posted has been made with that assumption in mind.  Of course there are many valid reasons to leave your job.  That's indisputable.  It's getting a little frustrating to have blanket opinions attributed to me when I've been so careful to say that I'm referring to one particular situation. 

[Christina]

I cannot seem to quote without receiving a debug error from my virus software. It's driving me nuts. To the person who asked if Corey was ever a coal miner, the answer is no. He has worked the same job the entire time he has filmed. However, I think his dad may have been at one time, unless I'm making that up in my head.

I know it's been said several times now throughout several threads, but I'm from not to far away from Leah, and have worked in Charleston. It isn't this backwards, racist area that people keep mentioning. Sure, there are some racists, I have them in my own family (African American and Native American), but it isn't a pervasive frozen in time area. No one would bat an eyelash at Leah walking down the road holding hands with Dues because of his race. I know someone here was originally from Leah's area, and still has family there and has told us info about her partying in the past, way before it was shown on MTV. If that person has a different opinion about this particular family, I'll concede to her(?) but otherwise, just feel the need to defend the area a bit. 

When Dues first came on the scene, someone posted the newspaper clipping about his arrest in a stolen car ring, but those charges against him seemed to be down charged to something minor where he received probation instead of jail time. I would look, but if I leave this box and flip to another tab, my virus software decides there is something wrong with this page. The rumor was that MTV hired him as a trainer for Leah, which makes absolutely no sense. I suspect if MTV was involved at all, they hired him as a sober coach. The comments about the stolen car probation suggested that he gave up info about a drug dealer in exchange for his reduced charges. If they were seen together, I think the backlash would be about his past, since the locals all seemed to know and discuss her using drugs before the MTV viewers did.

I brought that up to make a point that has since escaped me, since my virus software decided to be a jerk, again. This happened before, now I must go and try to remember what I did to fix it last time. hmmpt