S06.E21: Reunion Part 1

[sasha206]

Question:  Do those of you who don't like/can't stand/hate Faye because of the book or because of some other reason?

 

I admit I do like her.  I liked the book.  Yeah, some things would have been better kept out but that book let me get to know Nicole Brown, a woman who was brutally killed by her ex husband.  An ex husband who happened to be OJ Simpson.  Nicole wasn't perfect.  Who is?  Faye made Nicole 'real', not just a horrific picture of a dead person.

 

Yeah, Faye had all sorts of problems when she wrote that book.  And yes, Faye capitalized on the success of the book.  And maybe the publishers also put pressure on her to make the book as 'juicy' as possible.  In the end, she didn't kill someone. She didn't commit a crime.  So, what should her sentence be for 'the book'?  It's been twenty years and I have no idea of anything she has done since then that deserves the vitriol she still gets.

 

(1) Her book delayed the trial.

(2) Her book is the reason prosecution could not call her as a witness where she could have recounted the abusive relationship

(3) Her book allowed Nicole to be slut shamed publicly (she deserved it!) 

(4) She's opportunistic; the book wasn't to help her friend.  It was salacious book she profited on and then she posed for Playboy.  She profited off a dead woman.

 

 

She doesn't have to kill someone in order for her first impression to make a lasting impression and dislike.    

Edited April 25, 2016 by sasha206

[zoeysmom]

I seem to recall LVP saying that she spoke to Brandi about what she did but she didn't turn on her or call her out in front of the group. LVP clearly holds a different standard when it comes to her friends, vs. acquaintances vs. people she doesn't get along with. If you're the latter two, she'll call you out point black if she thinks you did something wrong. If it's a friend, she'll say that she addressed the situation with said friend to express her disapproval but in front of the cameras and with the other women, she doesn't ever pile on but does the opposite of either keeping silent or trying to redirect the onslaught.

 

Maybe she is more honest with her disapproval away from the women and cameras but it still isn't a good look to go from 'quiet and supportive' with a friend like Brandi to constantly criticizing past and present behavior just because they're no longer friends.

LVP gave her stamp of approval to Brandi's actions when she said if you have secrets you should not go on a reality show.   She continually bashed Adrienne and continues to do so every time Adrienne comes on the show with her references to Adrienne "launching a product".   She and Ken also promulgated the nonsense Brandi was being sued by Adrienne and Brandi had gotten a letter from the Maloof/Nassif attorney.  I don't think it bothered LVP one bit that Brandi dropped the surrogacy bomb, she and Ken made total assholes out of themselves that season with their treatment of Kyle, Mauricio, Paul and Adrienne.  LVP has never apologized nor has Ken.  If there was ever a case of LVP's popularity reigning supreme in molding viewer's that was the season.

[ryebread]

I dislike Faye for a lot of reasons.  Past and present.  But mainly because she seems like a dum dum.  And she's mean. 

 

She did a lot of interviews after the trial where she accused OJ of making her life a living hell once he was off the hook. And how people didn't understand what she was going through. It sounded like "Wah wah, I wrote a raunchy expose about my murdered friend and nobody understands how hard this is on meeee."  That rubbed me the wrong way. In the same way Kyle telling Kathryn she didn't understand what Faye had gone through.  It's not all about Faye.  I don't deny that she's probably been harassed a lot.  If that's been so painful on her, does she really think going on a reality show is going to stop that? See?  Dum dum. 

 

She should ask Eileen how that's working out for her.

[zoeysmom]

Interesting way to avoid having to admit to lying:  http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2016/04/24/lisa-rinna-not-writing-for-rhobh-rinna

[RHJunkie]

LVP gave her stamp of approval to Brandi's actions when she said if you have secrets you should not go on a reality show.   She continually bashed Adrienne and continues to do so every time Adrienne comes on the show with her references to Adrienne "launching a product".   She and Ken also promulgated the nonsense Brandi was being sued by Adrienne and Brandi had gotten a letter from the Maloof/Nassif attorney.  I don't think it bothered LVP one bit that Brandi dropped the surrogacy bomb, she and Ken made total assholes out of themselves that season with their treatment of Kyle, Mauricio, Paul and Adrienne.  LVP has never apologized nor has Ken.  If there was ever a case of LVP's popularity reigning supreme in molding viewer's that was the season.

 

Unless she said that Brandi was not wrong or shouldn't have done it, then I don't see that comment along as a stamp of approval. We're breaking down the details here to analyze but there's little difference in one of the cast members speaking common sense and when we viewers do it. Common sense suggests that if there are areas of your life that you don't want the public realm to know about, it's better not to go on a reality show where your life is being documented and up for criticism and speculation. Acknowledging that doesn't diminish or cancel out the fact that what Brandi did was wrong. It wasn't her place to share that information with anyone.  

 

If she claimed that she saw the papers and they were lawsuit papers, then she deserves the criticism. If she was repeating information that was told to her, then I don't see that as a big deal. If she was advocating for information that was told to her rather than what she could verify herself, then she definitely deserves criticism for that.

 

LVP is no innocent wallflower though I eel that the people who have strong opinions of her either way take details to fit their narrative when not everything is that big of a deal. People do this a lot with Yolanda. Perhaps no coincidence considering that both are considered the most strategic and underhanded of all the women but still, I don't think any of the women are strategic in every little thing they say. But to be clear, I know that LVP isn't one to let a cheap shot opportunity pass her by!

[zoeysmom]

(1) Her book delayed the trial.

(2) Her book is the reason prosecution could not call her as a witness where she could have recounted the abusive relationship

(3) Her book allowed the defense to put forth absurd drug deal theory (they "mistook" Nicole for Faye)

(4) Her book allowed Nicole to be slut shamed publicly (she deserved it!) 

(5) She's opportunistic; the book wasn't to help her friend.  It was salacious book she profited on and then she posed for Playboy.  She profited off a dead woman.

(6) What has she done in the past 20 years to try to rectify airing dirty laundry?  Has she donated substantially to abused women shelters? Created foundations?  If she has, I certainly haven't heard of any.  

 

She doesn't have to kill someone in order for her first impression to make a lasting impression and dislike.    

The trial was delayed for one day.

Neither side called Faye as a witness.  It was trial strategy.  Faye had no control over the prosecution or defense trial strategy.

The mysterious drug dealer theory was never presented as evidence as it was ruled not to have any connection other than conjecture to the case.  Just as the defense could not allude to Jason Simpson (A theory some believe) as the real killer.  You have to have a showing and not just claim the SOD defense.  (Some other dude)

Faye didn't slut shame, readers of Nicole's behavior did and still do.  So if you read the behavior was slutty that is on you the reader.  To me it sounded pretty normal for someone in Nicole's station in life at the time.

Faye has stated repeatedly her goal was to try and get OJ convicted at a time when he was being treated as a hero by many.  She did Playboy three years post trial.

She advocated for the stop of domestic violence and she has donated.

[zoeysmom]

May be interesting, a focus on the alleged Yolanda/LVP feud:  http://decider.com/2016/04/14/real-housewives-of-beverly-hills-yolanda-lisa/

 

Same site acting as Erika's PR agent:    http://decider.com/2016/04/19/whats-next-for-erika-girardi/

 

It is always interesting to me to read what these bloggers think.  I never found Erika to be above the RHOBH, if anything her desperate singing/acting career kind of makes her a joke.  Just because she charges for it doesn't make it any more refined or talent based.  I almost said makes money but something tells me by the time she deducts her maintenance fees, airplane fees, glam squad fees, instructors and the rest it comes in as a loss leader.

[sasha206]

The trial was delayed for one day.

Neither side called Faye as a witness.  It was trial strategy.  Faye had no control over the prosecution or defense trial strategy.

The mysterious drug dealer theory was never presented as evidence as it was ruled not to have any connection other than conjecture to the case.  Just as the defense could not allude to Jason Simpson (A theory some believe) as the real killer.  You have to have a showing and not just claim the SOD defense.  (Some other dude)

Faye didn't slut shame, readers of Nicole's behavior did and still do.  So if you read the behavior was slutty that is on you the reader.  To me it sounded pretty normal for someone in Nicole's station in life at the timat 

Faye has stated repeatedly her goal was to try and get OJ convicted at a time when he was being treated as a hero by many.  She did Playboy three years post trial.

She advocated for the stop of domestic violence and she has donated.

 

Then she's clearly one fabulous person even though she wrote the private details of her dear nearly headless friend's sex life.  And the court of public opinion is what I'm referring to on the slut theory.  We didn't have this shaming of the slut shamers back then.  

 

She didn't have to write a book and publish the details of her sex life -- which couldn't be substantiated mind you -- she could've easily waited until trial to discuss the abuse.  Or she could've given interviews like the Brown sisters did.  There was no need to tell the world private details of NBS's love life -- including a daliance with her.  Do you *really* think that book was the only way to help her friend?  And do you *really* think there wasn't the slightest opportunism on her part?  

 

People asked why we don't like her.  Well, it's because I don't think she is this virtuous person only trying to help her friend.  I think she betrayed her by discussing details of her sexual escapades that is NO ONE'S business, particularly when the woman is dead and the world is so in love with her abuser.  

 

Great that she advocated about violence and has donated,  That makes me view her with a little less disdain.

Edited April 25, 2016 by sasha206

[sasha206]

"But she also asserts that Nicole had six abortions, once performed oral sex on a virtual stranger, and discussed the relative sizes of her sex partners."

 

http://articles.philly.com/1994-10-19/news/25872806_1_nicole-simpson-jury-selection-prospective-jurors

What a great friend!  

[zoeysmom]

"But she also asserts that Nicole had six abortions, once performed oral sex on a virtual stranger, and discussed the relative sizes of her sex partners."

 

http://articles.philly.com/1994-10-19/news/25872806_1_nicole-simpson-jury-selection-prospective-jurors

What a great friend!  

This is suppose to be about what Faye wrote about Kathryn. . . not Nicole.  Sorry but there are other threads for this discussion and the discussion never ends.

 

I do think Kathryn had to make a fairly strategic decision in her continuing to harp on Faye.  It was very clear Kyle liked Faye and included Kathryn anyway in two events where she was a virtual unknown to the others.  So she told Kyle she was a lovely person during filming and then waited until after the episode aired to make her "grudge" with Faye relevant again.  Kyle could have mean-girled Kathryn from the beginning and just not warmed up to her at all.  Apparently, Kathryn was seeking Kyle's approval/alliance and lied to her about Faye.

 

What made the tactic interesting to me, is Erika did the same thing, bashed LVP on camera and then sought to blame Kathryn for putting a wedge between she and LVP and coming between a potential friendship.  Last time I checked the scorecard, Erika did nothing to further a friendship with LVP.  Maybe it comes down to staying relevant.  Kathryn became Erika's scapegoat from here to eternity if LVP dismisses Erika.

[sasha206]

This is suppose to be about what Faye wrote about Kathryn. . . not Nicole.  Sorry but there are other threads for this discussion and the discussion never ends.

 

I do think Kathryn had to make a fairly strategic decision in her continuing to harp on Faye.  It was very clear Kyle liked Faye and included Kathryn anyway in two events where she was a virtual unknown to the others.  So she told Kyle she was a lovely person during filming and then waited until after the episode aired to make her "grudge" with Faye relevant again.  Kyle could have mean-girled Kathryn from the beginning and just not warmed up to her at all.  Apparently, Kathryn was seeking Kyle's approval/alliance and lied to her about Faye.

 

What made the tactic interesting to me, is Erika did the same thing, bashed LVP on camera and then sought to blame Kathryn for putting a wedge between she and LVP and coming between a potential friendship.  Last time I checked the scorecard, Erika did nothing to further a friendship with LVP.  Maybe it comes down to staying relevant.  Kathryn became Erika's scapegoat from here to eternity if LVP dismisses Erika.

 

Ah sorry.   I thought there was a general question of why people disliked Faye -- and that question didn't put it in the context of Kathryn.  

 

That said, I think Kathryn is well within her rights to dislike Faye based on what she wrote in the book.  Some said her marriage couldn't have been *that* distressed if they stayed together but people often stay together for a while after infidelity.  That doesn't mean their relationships are fabulous.  

Edited April 25, 2016 by sasha206

[beaker73]

Ah sorry.   I thought there was a general question of why people disliked Faye -- and that question didn't put it in the context of Kathryn.  

 

That said, I think Kathryn is well within her rights to dislike Faye based on what she wrote in the book.  Some said her marriage couldn't have been *that* distressed if they stayed together but people often stay together for a while after infidelity.  That doesn't mean their relationships are fabulous.  

There was a general question. The original post asked if those of us who dislike Faye do so because of the book or some other reason(s).

Edited April 25, 2016 by beaker73

[Bronzedog]

Re Faye - I believe people can change to a certain extent, however, in my opinion, ones character remains the same. I also believe the adage " when someone shows you who they really are, believe them." I dislike Faye because of her icy, superior, unapologetic demeanor. Others have described her effect on the trial better than I can, so, I won't repeat their very valid points. We can only speculate on what effect her book had on Nichole's parents, siblings and children. When she asked Kathryn if she felt better, I felt Faye, once again, didn't care how much damage she left in her wake.

[Higgins]

I don't think you can divorce what Faye wrote about Nicole from what Faye wrote about Kathryn. In the business of profiteering off of her best "friend's" murder by dragging her reputation through the mud, revealing her infidelity, promiscuous behavior and party lifestyle, Kathryn became collateral damage.

[Vicky8675309]

nothing wrong with sex between consenting adults...just ask Eileen;-)

[zoeysmom]

Ah sorry.   I thought there was a general question of why people disliked Faye -- and that question didn't put it in the context of Kathryn.  

 

That said, I think Kathryn is well within her rights to dislike Faye based on what she wrote in the book.  Some said her marriage couldn't have been *that* distressed if they stayed together but people often stay together for a while after infidelity.  That doesn't mean their relationships are fabulous.  

It is a discussion about the Reunion.  Specifically, the lack of meeting of the minds between Kathryn and Kyle over Faye.  Kyle claimed that Kathryn said she fine with Faye and called her a lovely person.   Kyle didn't expect Kathryn to continue to accept Kyle's invitations and bad mouth one of her guests.  To me, Kathryn going on to explain how much the book hurt her because her ex-husband was exposed as being a pre-marriage philanderer.  I hate to think what happens when she has time to digest what Eileen said about Marcus. 

 

It also goes to what kind of friend is Kathryn?  We have seen Kyle, ad nauseam defend Faye as her friend, what we didn't get a clear picture of is how Kathryn is as a friend.  She has talked repeated about Erika, said pretty crappy things about LVP, Kyle, let's see what she does with Eileen and Rinna.  We have seen Kyle defend until it becomes indefensible

 

It begs the question why did Kathryn misrepresent to Kyle her present feelings with Faye during filming?  She was sitting right across from her when Faye asked if she felt better.   It was like Brandi buddying up to LVP knowing she employed that "fucking whore" Scheana.  When it worked for Brandi she was fine with Scheana, when she needed a reason to be mad at LVP she cited Scheana. 

 

So it seems in the off season, which may be the last season for Kathryn holding on pretty tight to LVP and Kyle.  It will be interesting to see if she offers anything else up at the Reunion.

[kokapetl]

Publishing a hearsay penis description of Kathryn's husband (at the time) alone justifies Kathryn's dislike of Faye.

[Umbelina]

I think Kathryn was simply telling the truth.  Kyle rudely interrupted her, with her insane ranting about how hard poor Faye had it.

[zoeysmom]

Publishing a hearsay penis description of Kathryn's husband (at the time) alone justifies Kathryn's dislike of Faye.

Again it is not about disliking Faye what wrote, it is about talking out of both sides of your mouth.  Don't try and get in with one of the leads by lying to her face.  Kathryn can hate Faye all she wants, but don't tell Kyle privately, you find her lovely.  Had Kyle stepped away from her, who would she have been left with?  Not Rinna, not Erika, I can only imagine she wasn't really okay with Eileen dating her boyfriend at the same time she did.  She sided against LVP.  She becomes kind of an island.

I think Kathryn was simply telling the truth.  Kyle rudely interrupted her, with her insane ranting about how hard poor Faye had it.

Which truth?  The one she told Kyle privately or the one she put in her blog?

 

I think it was important that Kyle let the others and the world know that Kathryn was being a bit two-faced about the whole thing.

[Umbelina]

I have no idea if Kyle is lying or exaggerating what Kathryn supposedly told her off camera and in private about Faye.  Even if it did happen as Kyle says, that has nothing to do with taking away the pain Faye caused, or the turmoil, gossip, and embarrassment.

 

For example, Kathryn (if she even said it) could have been being sarcastic, but dumbo Kyle didn't get it.  "She's a LOVELY person." 

 

Or, Kathryn could have had other things on her mind and Kyle could have been badgering her about accepting Faye or agreeing with her about Faye, so Kathryn could have said it to shut Kyle up.

 

It wasn't on camera.  We have no idea about the truth or circumstances of that interaction.  Except Kyle's version of it.  Obviously you believe whatever Kyle says is gospel, and Faye is a wonderful gal.  I believe neither.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Umbelina

[sasha206]

Again it is not about disliking Faye what wrote, it is about talking out of both sides of your mouth.  Don't try and get in with one of the leads by lying to her face.  Kathryn can hate Faye all she wants, but don't tell Kyle privately, you find her lovely.  Had Kyle stepped away from her, who would she have been left with?  Not Rinna, not Erika, I can only imagine she wasn't really okay with Eileen dating her boyfriend at the same time she did.  She sided against LVP.  She becomes kind of an island.

Which truth?  The one she told Kyle privately or the one she put in her blog?

 

I think it was important that Kyle let the others and the world know that Kathryn was being a bit two-faced about the whole thing.

 

I'm not a fan of Kathyrn, but I took her dislike of Faye as reemerging after a rewatch of that dinner scene and seeing Faye's reaction over again.  Maybe in the sober light of day, she didn't think Faye seemed sincere.

 

I know you want to defend Faye but at least in my eyes, the lesser of two evils is decidedly Kathryn.

Edited April 25, 2016 by sasha206

[zoeysmom]

I have no idea if Kyle is lying or exaggerating what Kathryn supposedly told her off camera and in private about Faye.  Even if it did happen as Kyle says, that has nothing to do with taking away the pain Faye caused, or the turmoil, gossip, and embarrassment.

 

For example, Kathryn (if she even said it) could have been being sarcastic, but dumbo Kyle didn't get it.  "She's a LOVELY person." 

 

Or, Kathryn could have had other things on her mind and Kyle could have been badgering her about accepting Faye or agreeing with her about Faye, so Kathryn could have said it to shut Kyle up.

 

It wasn't on camera.  We have no idea about the truth or circumstances of that interaction.  Except Kyle's version of it.  Obviously you believe whatever Kyle says is gospel, and Faye is a wonderful gal.  I believe neither.

No real mystery-Kathryn agreed she had said it.  So it is about paying attention and not discounting when there is an agreement.  Is there perhaps a flaw in Kathryn that she says one thing and then says another.

The entire cast can't suffer from Lyme Disease brain or being manipulated.

I'm not a fan of Kathyrn, but I took her dislike of Faye as reemerging after a rewatch of that dinner scene and seeing Faye's reaction over again.  Maybe in the sober light of day, she didn't think Faye seemed sincere.

 

I know you want to defend Faye but at least in my eyes, the lesser of two evils is decidedly Kathryn.

I will say it one more time-it is about Kathryn saying one thing to Kyle and writing another thing.  I personally cannot see how the face to face with Faye was any different than the filmed version.  The filmed version doesn't even show Faye's face when she makes the comment.  Maybe it would have been more honest just to say, "I guess I will never get over it."

[b2H]

Kyle is never going to NOT defend Faye - to Kathryn, to you, to me, or anyone else.

 

Kyle may believe that Faye is a wonderful person, through and through.  And Kyle may also believe that to cross Faye is a dangerous takt to take. 

 

None of us will know.  However Kathryn, with all due respect and knowing the history, has every right and reason to avoid all contact with Faye.  And Kyle needs to be responsible for not putting those two in close proximity ona a casual basis (like, 'oh, this could be fun!!!').

[sasha206]

No real mystery-Kathryn agreed she had said it.  So it is about paying attention and not discounting when there is an agreement.  Is there perhaps a flaw in Kathryn that she says one thing and then says another.

The entire cast can't suffer from Lyme Disease brain or being manipulated.

I will say it one more time-it is about Kathryn saying one thing to Kyle and writing another thing.  I personally cannot see how the face to face with Faye was any different than the filmed version.  The filmed version doesn't even show Faye's face when she makes the comment.  Maybe it would have been more honest just to say, "I guess I will never get over it."

 

Yes, that would've been much more honest.  

 

But whatever the case, Faye in my mind deserves whatever wrath she gets from the people she victimized by writing a tell-all book.  She made the choice to write about salicious things.  Now she has to live with it.

[zoeysmom]

Kyle is never going to NOT defend Faye - to Kathryn, to you, to me, or anyone else.

 

Kyle may believe that Faye is a wonderful person, through and through.  And Kyle may also believe that to cross Faye is a dangerous takt to take. 

 

None of us will know.  However Kathryn, with all due respect and knowing the history, has every right and reason to avoid all contact with Faye.  And Kyle needs to be responsible for not putting those two in close proximity ona a casual basis (like, 'oh, this could be fun!!!').

Kyle didn't hold a gun to Kathryn's head to have her attend the two events where Faye was present.

 

I like Kathryn but it makes me wonder, first there was Erika and the question of betrayal there (I was on Kathryn side and then Kathryn wrote a blog saying she was in the wrong), then there was the discussion on the yacht and Kathryn said negative things about Kyle and defending LVP.  So apparently it doesn't really matter who the friend is, Kathryn doesn't think defense of a friend is an attribute.  Oh wait, she defended Kim, who she had never met because she was an addict just like her daddy.

[Umbelina]

The PRODUCERS of the show expect Kathryn to be at "Kyle's events" which are really filming jobs, not parties. 

 

Come on now...

[zoeysmom]

The PRODUCERS of the show expect Kathryn to be at "Kyle's events" which are really filming jobs, not parties. 

 

Come on now...

I was responding to the notion that Kathryn should stay clear of Faye.  It was a response not an original idea.

 

Watching the Reunion it seemed to me like the producers wanted a big ole' chunk of Faye served up by Kathryn, perhaps Kathryn promised to deliver.  Kathryn failed to deliver, whether is what do to some soul searching and realizing it wasn't worth the fight or the fact Faye wasn't going to get into a debate with her is unknown.

 

Kathryn seemed for no particular reason to want to mix it up at Erika's.  I am guessing she showed some promise that just didn't materialize.  Once again, I like Kathryn but nothing sinks a RH faster than being contradictory. 

[lunastartron]

Picayune point but Bravo's website notes that Donnie and Kathryn were married in 2003 in their January primer on her showdown with Faye. I almost certain as well that Kathryn mentioned that she and the husband had been legal for "12 years" in an on-camera conversation . . . The ramifications of Faye's book have been deconstructed ad nauseum in the thread specifically devoted to the OJ saga but if we're talking about duplicity, disingenuousness, and dishonesty, I'll just add that Kyle and Faye are up to their necks in it every bit as much as the co-star formerly known as Kathy Allen. Kathryn contradicted herself when she framed Nicole's murder as the second most traumatic event of her life but simultaneously contended she hadn't spent significant time with either Nicole or OJ in the approximate year between the Allen wedding and the murders; "our names weren't in it" until Faye released her tell-all is also an exaggeration. But Kyle needs to stop crying about how Faye "didn't sign up for this" because homegirl did just that when she consented to film. And, likewise, Faye needs to stop sighing about how "she's not ready to have a conversation about Nicole" when a) she certainly had a lot to say in A Private Diary and b) she sure showed up to set equipped with full knowledge that Kathryn was going to be in attendance. Other arguable hypocrisies: Kathryn (and I give some slack on this) is horrified that Faye profiteered off of the murders but is profiting herself in a specific context by virtue of her connection to the slayings and is demonstrably intelligent enough to realize that her tangential affiliation with the tragedy and Faye would function as a significant plot point (the reason I extend some mitigation on this aspect is that Faye's actions set up the dynamic for her casting, so why should she deny herself an opportunity just because of TMCFR?); Kyle oh so innocently wondering aloud who at her barbecue had spread for Playboy and then clutching her pearls at Kathryn's subsequent expressions of antipathy for Faye; Kyle shivering about how "creepy" just talking about the killings in a talking head is after, you know, befriending Faye *in 1994*.

[SCS]

 

 Should she hide under a rock for the rest of her life?  

 

 

Snakes...lizards...just words.

 

[SCS]

Ah sorry.   I thought there was a general question of why people disliked Faye -- and that question didn't put it in the context of Kathryn.  

 

  

 

 

You definitely shouldn't be sorry -- this was the original question -- 

 

Question:  Do those of you who don't like/can't stand/hate Faye because of the book or because of some other reason? 

 

 

 

-- and IMO you're spot on in your comments. 

[walnutqueen]

I should post this in Do buy thread.  But its important to see it.

 

The show VICE on HBO, did a show on the construction slave labor in Do buy. Its disgusting. there is a Trump golf club being built by the same slave laborers.   

 

I saw that one, and it was a real eye-opener.  Viceland also did an expose of domestic workers in the UAR, and how they are exempt from any of the recent "worker's rights" (and I use that term loosely) regulations. 

 

 

I think Faye has come back because she is a close friend of Kyle's and Kyle continues have a rough time with both her sisters.  She is a good friend.  She has remarried and is living in Portland (?).  She could be more of a famewhore if she wanted but from what I've seen, she's not.

 

Lisa's remark was totally uncalled for.  Lisa got away with it because she is 'LVP'  and she said it about 'Faye Resnick'.   In other circumstances, there would have been a lot more outrage.  Heck, has anyone called Donald Trump an orangutan?  OK.  He's been called a lot of things, deservingly.  But when you compare someone to an ape....that's just not cool.  Whether is was racist or rude.  Heck, others have been called out on much more 'innocent observations'.  JMO.

 

After Trump's whole Obama birther debacle, Bill Maher offered $5 mil if Trump would show his birth certificate proving his father wasn't an orangutan.  Trump tried to sue him.   Personally, I think the orangutans should've been the ones suing!   :-)

[RedheadZombie]

 None of us will know.  However Kathryn, with all due respect and knowing the history, has every right and reason to avoid all contact with Faye.  And Kyle needs to be responsible for not putting those two in close proximity ona a casual basis (like, 'oh, this could be fun!!!').

Well that may be difficult considering she was hired onto a show where Faye periodically appears, and during the OJ mini-series. Kathryn is a sharp cookie. She knows what she was hired for, and that's her tangential OJ connection. She has every right to feel however she feels, but it's a little disingenuous to be outraged at having to be around Faye.

[Bluedog100]

My apologies for the delayed gratitude.  I have been taking care of my elderly, sick mother and mothers always come first.  But many thanks to each of you who answered my question about what "breaking the fourth wall" means.  The answers were basically what I thought it meant, but am not articulate enough to explain it to myself!  Thanks so much for your explanation and clarification!  I appreciate you all.

[Umbelina]

Well that may be difficult considering she was hired onto a show where Faye periodically appears, and during the OJ mini-series. Kathryn is a sharp cookie. She knows what she was hired for, and that's her tangential OJ connection. She has every right to feel however she feels, but it's a little disingenuous to be outraged at having to be around Faye.

She's never said she's outraged.  She's said she was deeply hurt and isn't over it.

 

Or did I miss her saying "outraged?" At any of it, including Kyle's "parties" which are basically her call sheets or work schedule.

[film noire]

On 4/25/2016 at 7:02 PM, steelcitysister said:

You definitely shouldn't be sorry -- this was the original question --

-- and IMO you're spot on in your comments. 

Absolutely spot on. 

Here's the thing for me with the deeply despicable and morally corrupt Faye Resnick -- the thing I can never shake -- I always imagine the moment Nicole revealed these things to her "friend".  Perhaps a bit drunk and having fun, talking about giving a blow job to a stranger; perhaps needing a real friend to unburden herself to about her abortions and marriage and all the rest of her messy, fucked up life. All those moments -- over drinks and coffee and dinners and shopping and phone calls  -- the fabric of what Nicole thought was a friendship being woven, over time, only to be revealed in a tell-all book written by a spiritual pimp when Nicole's near headless body turned up, hacked to death.

I'm not big on gender codes (I think they're most often regressive and controlling) but I do believe when a girlfriend turns to you and says "I want to tell you something", you treat it as a trust, not a bankroll. Because as women we've spent centuries being marginalized and shamed and harmed, and when that happens to a woman you actually know -- to someone you called friend--you  don't publish just because she perished. 

(Bluedog100, hope your Mom is doing okay. And isn't handling da Lyme : ) 

Edited May 2, 2016 by film noire

[sasha206]

10 hours ago, film noire said:

Absolutely spot on. 

Here's the thing for me with the deeply despicable and morally corrupt Faye Resnick -- the thing I can never shake -- I always imagine the moment Nicole revealed these things to her "friend".  Perhaps a bit drunk and having fun, talking about giving a blow job to a stranger; perhaps needing a real friend to unburden herself to about her abortions and marriage and all the rest of her messy, fucked up life. All those moments -- over drinks and coffee and dinners and shopping and phone calls  -- the fabric of what Nicole thought was a friendship being woven, over time, only to be revealed in a tell-all book written by a spiritual pimp when Nicole's near headless body turned up, hacked to death.

I'm not big on gender codes (I think they're most often regressive and controlling) but I do believe when a girlfriend turns to you and says "I want to tell you something", you treat it as a trust, not a bankroll. Because as women we've spent centuries being marginalized and shamed and harmed, and when that happens to a woman you actually know -- to someone you called friend--you  don't publish just because she perished. 

(Bluedog100, hope your Mom is doing okay. And isn't handling da Lyme : ) 

This is exactly right.  There were so many salacious details in the book that never needed to be revealed and it really added to the public perception that she was some slut that deserved what she got.  And while some here don't seem to recall that time period, that was the flavor amongst many who cheered on OJ.  If she was *truly* trying to help her departed friend by shedding light on OJ's abuse, she could have just worked with the prosecution and did all that during trial.  Instead, she decided to capitalize on her friendship and make a quick buck.    To me, that's absolutely indefensible.  Kathryn has every right to feel the way she does about Faye Resnick.  

[zoeysmom]

3 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

This is exactly right.  There were so many salacious details in the book that never needed to be revealed and it really added to the public perception that she was some slut that deserved what she got.  And while some here don't seem to recall that time period, that was the flavor amongst many who cheered on OJ.  If she was *truly* trying to help her departed friend by shedding light on OJ's abuse, she could have just worked with the prosecution and did all that during trial.  Instead, she decided to capitalize on her friendship and make a quick buck.    To me, that's absolutely indefensible.  Kathryn has every right to feel the way she does about Faye Resnick.  

I don't know of one mentally competent person that ever said Nicole deserved it. Or any public perception. You are leaving out Ron Goldman, did he deserve it as well?  I would love to see one quote where someone said Nicole deserved what she got because of the behavior described in Faye Resnick's book.  Do you have a link?  You putting it out there doesn't make it so.  The jurors when surveyed never mentioned, Faye Resnick's book or put the blame on Nicole's lifestyle.  They did however discount mark Furhman's testimony.  A conscience choice of the prosecution to put him on the stand.

[sasha206]

Well, here's one article for your reading pleasure.

Slut, gold digger

And read this comment:

Football Slut!

"I don’t really feel too sorry for Nicole Brown Simpson, the football slut who got around (and also was, um, “dating”–euphemism–Marcus Allen, another Heisman winner). True, she divorced O.J., but still maintained a sexual relationship with him. In the end, we choose who we choose, and she chose a batterer with whom she chose to stay and continue to hang out because she enjoyed the glamor and trappings of the good life, just as her friend Kris Jenner does now."

Gee, wonder where that "Marcus Allen" reference comes from?

Most people that don't seem to be hell bent on defending Resnick remember that time Nicole Brown Simpson's sex life was played up as though she could've been murdered by ANYONE because she was a drugged out slut.   Ron Goldman was portrayed as the victim he was by association.  But of course, thanks to FAYE RESNICK, the public was led to believe that she liked Ron Goldman and was about to ensnare him.

[Satchels of gold]

The author of the football slut article is a damn lunatic. 

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, sasha206 said:

Well, here's one article for your reading pleasure.

Slut, gold digger

And read this comment:

Football Slut!

"I don’t really feel too sorry for Nicole Brown Simpson, the football slut who got around (and also was, um, “dating”–euphemism–Marcus Allen, another Heisman winner). True, she divorced O.J., but still maintained a sexual relationship with him. In the end, we choose who we choose, and she chose a batterer with whom she chose to stay and continue to hang out because she enjoyed the glamor and trappings of the good life, just as her friend Kris Jenner does now."

Gee, wonder where that "Marcus Allen" reference comes from?

Most people that don't seem to be hell bent on defending Resnick remember that time Nicole Brown Simpson's sex life was played up as though she could've been murdered by ANYONE because she was a drugged out slut.   Ron Goldman was portrayed as the victim he was by association.  But of course, thanks to FAYE RESNICK, the public was led to believe that she liked Ron Goldman and was about to ensnare him.

Neither of these guttural pieces claim Nicole deserved what she got.  Faye never called Nicole a slut or gold digger.  That is on the authors of these pieces.  Nor did Faye claim anyone but abuser OJ committed the crimes.  So whoever read the books and states otherwise is not comprehending the written word.

Edited May 2, 2016 by zoeysmom

[sasha206]

33 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Neither of these guttural pieces claim Nicole deserved what she got.  Faye never called Nicole a slut or gold digger.  That is on the authors of these pieces.  Nor did Faye claim anyone but abuser OJ committed the crimes.  So whoever read the books and states otherwise is not comprehending the written word.

And nowhere did I say Faye called her a slut or a gold digger or claim that anyone but OJ committed the crimes.   What I've said over and over was HER BOOK and the SALACIOUS details of her sex life fed into the "slut, gold digger" view of public opinion that surrounded the trial.  Her very UNNECESSARY discussions of her sex life in HER BOOK contributed to that.   Understand? 

I can understand you debating on the effect her book had on the trial.  Taking that out of the equation and just focusing on her book:  do you not think that the book was damaging to Nicole's reputation?  Her parents called it TRASH.  Do you not have sympathy for those who lost their loved one and then had the very personal details of their loved one's sex lives out for all to read?  

I find it bizarre that you strongly defend Faye Resnick but you easily criticize one of the victims (yes victim) of her book -- Kathryn.  I don't like Kathryn personally but I'm sure if YOUR loved one were mentioned as being a fuckmate and you were characterized as someone who allowed it and turned a blind eye, you would probably not like the person who wrote that book.  

The bottom line is the reason so many of us dislike Faye Resnick is SHE WROTE ABOUT HER DEAD FRIEND AND HER DEAD FRIEND'S SEX LIFE.  That's appalling enough on its own without it affecting a trial, affecting public opinion.  That is, indeed morally corrupt.

Edited May 2, 2016 by sasha206

[sasha206]

49 minutes ago, Satchels of gold said:

The author of the football slut article is a damn lunatic. 

Absolutely. 

[kassa]

On 4/25/2016 at 6:27 PM, lunastartron said:

Kathryn contradicted herself when she framed Nicole's murder as the second most traumatic event of her life but simultaneously contended she hadn't spent significant time with either Nicole or OJ in the approximate year between the Allen wedding and the murders

I don't care if it's been 5 years or 10 years since I've seen somebody.  If I thought they were a nice person and got married at their house and learned that they had been brutally murdered, practically decapitated, you can be damn sure that I would consider it a traumatic event in my life.  And that's before the aftermath, which was a traumatic event in the country's life, which is why we're still talking about it all these years later.

As for people taking Faye's book and drawing conclusions that she didn't mean for them to draw... she's not a stupid person.  Her revelations about her friend were lurid and shocking and completely unnecessary for any purpose except selling books.  Had she just wanted us to know the "real" Nicole, as she claimed, she could have stopped far, far, far short of where she went.  You don't tell secrets about your living friend without the expectation that it will come back to bite you.  You don't tell secrets about your dead friend without the expectation that it will come back to bite you.  Selling your murdered friend's secrets to a national audience that is salivating over her grisly death ... there was almost universal revulsion to that act, which is why Camille nailed it with "morally corrupt."  

Even today, the kind of revelations she made about Nicole would be expected to bring down a world of scorn on Nicole in the media and at the water cooler.  Might not be the world we want to live in, but it's not one any of us would be unaware of now.  She was not unaware of it then.  She did it anyway.  

[Vicky8675309]

1 hour ago, sasha206 said:

Well, here's one article for your reading pleasure.

Slut, gold digger

And read this comment:

Football Slut!

"I don’t really feel too sorry for Nicole Brown Simpson, the football slut who got around (and also was, um, “dating”–euphemism–Marcus Allen, another Heisman winner). True, she divorced O.J., but still maintained a sexual relationship with him. In the end, we choose who we choose, and she chose a batterer with whom she chose to stay and continue to hang out because she enjoyed the glamor and trappings of the good life, just as her friend Kris Jenner does now."

Gee, wonder where that "Marcus Allen" reference comes from?

Most people that don't seem to be hell bent on defending Resnick remember that time Nicole Brown Simpson's sex life was played up as though she could've been murdered by ANYONE because she was a drugged out slut.   Ron Goldman was portrayed as the victim he was by association.  But of course, thanks to FAYE RESNICK, the public was led to believe that she liked Ron Goldman and was about to ensnare him.

It sounds like that moron is blaming the victim for choosing to maintain a relationship with her batterer who was rich and famous (and the father of their children). The author is saying (wrong imo) that Nicole's poor choices led to her death. That is my interpretation of the crap written in that quote. I do not see any blame on Faye is that trashy quote. Even if Nicole never had sex again, the author would say (imo) it was her fault for maintaining a relationship with a known batterer.

[film noire]

1 hour ago, kassa said:

Even today, the kind of revelations she made about Nicole would be expected to bring down a world of scorn on Nicole in the media and at the water cooler.  Might not be the world we want to live in, but it's not one any of us would be unaware of now.  She was not unaware of it then.  She did it anyway.  

I think we're only beginning to get a handle on rape culture/violence against women as a cultural given (so perhaps it's hard for people to grasp that Resnick helped create a climate that degraded Nicole Brown Simpson) but that said -- if only from a trust perspective, it's clear Resnick betrayed Nicole in every way possible. She betryed Nicole's faith in her, and then profited from that betrayal. She never owned that betrayal, or apologized to those who loved Nicole as a person, who were dismayed by someone presenting her  as a slutty, abortion-ridden moral whore. That's enough for me to see Resnick as corrupt beyond measure.

Edited May 2, 2016 by film noire