S06.E01: The Red Woman

[SeanC]

To add to the Dorne stupidity, how did Sand Snake 2 and 3 end up on the boat in King's Landing?

They're really, really, really good swimmers. Or fast rowers.

Well, they had the full time of the journey plus however long it took Jaime and Trystane's letter, which they could only have sent after getting to KL, to go back to Dorne.  I guess they could have done it if they caught the next boat to KL immediately after 510.

[mac123x]

Aliser Thorne's speech to the remaining NW guys was well delivered.  Too bad he admitted just how stupid his plan was.  "Jon Snow let the Wildlings through, let them settle on the lands that they'd been raiding.  He was going to destroy the Night's Watch!"  Umm, that ship has already sailed, dumbass.  If you wanted to stop him from letting the Wildlings through, perhaps you should have done that before he let the Wildlings through.  Sometime in the next couple of episodes they're going to kick your asses. 

[benteen]

Aliser Thorne's speech to the remaining NW guys was well delivered.  Too bad he admitted just how stupid his plan was.  "Jon Snow let the Wildlings through, let them settle on the lands that they'd been raiding.  He was going to destroy the Night's Watch!"  Umm, that ship has already sailed, dumbass.  If you wanted to stop him from letting the Wildlings through, perhaps you should have done that before he let the Wildlings through.  Sometime in the next couple of episodes they're going to kick your asses. 

 

In fairness, Thorne's logic was slightly less stupid than Ellaria's.

[Mya Stone]

Aliser Thorne's speech to the remaining NW guys was well delivered. Too bad he admitted just how stupid his plan was. "Jon Snow let the Wildlings through, let them settle on the lands that they'd been raiding. He was going to destroy the Night's Watch!" Umm, that ship has already sailed, dumbass. If you wanted to stop him from letting the Wildlings through, perhaps you should have done that before he let the Wildlings through. Sometime in the next couple of episodes they're going to kick your asses.

I was just waiting for him to say, "Remember when he let the wildings through the gate? Oh, bugger, right...I gave that command to open the gates. But I gave him a look that said, 'Do this and die.' Err...you mean you really can't exchange knowing looks with people when you're 700 feet in the air? Eh, screw it. He had to die. He had perfect hair."

[maraleia]

People magazine said that van Houten did the face make-up, but they had an 80 year old woman body double:  http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,21002250,00.html

Thanks for the clarification.

[nksarmi]

I actually loved this episode - it had that thing that frustrates the hell out of me in every good GoT episode - it felt like it was only on for 10 minutes and then it was over! 

 

I'm going to be the minority and say that other than the total waste that was the casting of the wonderful Alexander S - I'm SO glad they are doing this with the Dorne plot.  Why? Because it's such a miserable representation of the book - I am completely confident than what I'm watching will not spoil the book story for me AT ALL. My S.O. is in the middle of Dance right now and is skipping this season - for the time being at least (he happen to catch Brie's wonderful moment saving Sansa but he doesn't appreciate that yet - the girl SO deserved a win!). And since he just finished Feast for Crows - and I followed shimpy's read along over the summer - I have been reminded of exactly how wonderful Dorne was in the books - the intrigue, the layer of plotting, the queen making plot, Fire and Blood!!!!

 

And in the end - if I'm not going to get that - I'd rather they be SO FAR OFF COURSE that I know I'm getting a completely different story.  And that's clearly what they are doing.  So I'm just curious who the hell this bastard women thinks will rule Dorne now - I mean they can't seriously mean to have her do it, can they?

[Ambrosefolly]

So I guess Doran secret plot (originally having Viserys marry his daughter and heir, then having his younger son go and romance Dany) is being axed? 

[ParadoxLost]

Note to future Lord Commanders.  Order the Night Watch not to assassinate you.  Apparently that makes a difference.

[lmsweb]

While bastards do fare better in Dorne they still aren't in line to inherit unless legitimize. Hell, the reason Ellaria wasn't married to Oberyn is because being a bastard makes her too lowborn to marry a prince.   

 

Ah, ok. Thanks for the clarification. I couldn't remember if bastards were able to inherit if all other legitimate heirs were dead (especially if they're deceased at the hands of said bastards). 

[nksarmi]

When I think of all of the things that they could have done with Dorne, it really is too bad that this is the best the showrunners can do. I most like nksarmi's suggestion that Trystane was Aegon/Faegon all along.

 

I clung to this for far longer than I should have lol.

[benteen]

I was just waiting for him to say, "Remember when he let the wildings through the gate? Oh, bugger, right...I gave that command to open the gates. But I gave him a look that said, 'Do this and die.' Err...you mean you really can't exchange knowing looks with people when you're 700 feet in the air? Eh, screw it. He had to die. He had perfect hair."

 

LOL.  The only thing funnier would be him standing up and be like **** it and literally fall on the sword.

[Howdyphillip]

I found myself quite enjoying the show tonight, even if it was with a slight pang in my heart from not being able read the story first. Of course,the richness of the story will be truncated, but all in all, I personally think that the show is doing a good job of telling a story. With that said, I wanted to start this thread to discuss ways in which we believe that the show will prove itself different from the books, and ways that will probably be similar.

Obvious differences

1.Sansa/Theon/Brienne

Obviously these characters are no where near each other in the narrative of the books, but as a TV show, I quite like linking the characters together. I was quite exited to see Brienne to ride in to the rescue tonight, and look forward to what will come next.

2. Tyrion/Varys

There roles are quite different in the books, but I suspect that these two will have a similar story line as Barristan the Bold has in the books minus some of the details about the Harpies.

3. Martels

I have to believe that this will be a huge deviation. I just don't see Doran being killed off.

4. Daenerys

I just don't see sending her to a retirement home for widowed Khal's wives being something that could take place. It seems thatis a departure from what we know about Dothraki culture.

Similarities

1. John Snow

He is indeed dead. I'm not too sure that the theory that he has warged into Ghost is out of the realm of possibilities either.

2. Melisandre

I really like the necklace of glamour being removed tonight. This seems like something that is to be expected in the books.

[nksarmi]

Poor Trystane. One of the nicest princes to be arranged in a marriage to, and he winds up stabbed in the back of the head right after his girl gets murdered.

At least things are looking up for Sansa. And Dany is presumably safe from being a sex slave for now, but Drogon better come for her quick.

I want Ghost to start eating people YESTERDAY.

 

Oh holy crap yes!  If Ghost doesn't get to at least kill Ollie and the three "officers" of the Nights Watch - I'll be pissed.

[Raachel2008]

I got the feeling that they were eliminating Melisandre as a candidate to resurrect Jon.  Between Jon's body being secured by Davos, Mel saying she saying she saw him in flames, and the need to burn a body before it rises as a White Walker.  I'm thinking that the theory that they'll have Jon resurrect in fire is probably spot on along with all that implies.

 

But why Melisandre would give up on whatever she was giving up if it was not directly linked to resurrecting Jon one way or another? It can still be among flames, I guess.

[benteen]

 

4. Daenerys

I just don't see sending her to a retirement home for widowed Khal's wives being something that could take place. It seems thatis a departure from what we know about Dothraki culture.

 

 

What happens to the widows of the Khals is from the book.

Edited April 25, 2016 by benteen

[Conan Troutman]

Is that what happens when you don't have GRRM's writing to guide you?  Some of the dialogue was truly horrible in that characters kept repeating what their scene partner would say or just give us a wordy recap of what happened in last year's season finale. 

I'm certainly no book wanker, but I do think the quality of the dialogue wasn't on par with what the previous seasons had offered. The episode had great cinematography and the plot was fine (except that whole Dorne thing, but who knows what Doran will amount to eventually? Maybe he's just another filler), but those lines just weren't up to snuff.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Conan Troutman

[SeanC]

Speaking of Olly, I notice that he's got the full villain look this season.

[lmsweb]

I kept getting distracted in the Dany scene - I swear one of the two men who was riding next to her as she was walking is the twin of one of her now dead Bloodriders (Rakharo, I think?). It was the guy who DIDN'T whip her in tonight's episode. I'll have to look again on re-watch.

[WearyTraveler]

As much as I really disliked the Dorne storyline, I don't think succession would be a problem.  If, as Ellaria said, all of Dorne already despised Doran because he did nothing when Elia, her children and Oberyn were murdered; and considering that in Dorne the oldest child (male or female) gets to be the ruler of the house, then Oberyn's eldest daughter will be the next ruler and she's a Martell.  In the show, Ellaria will probably be the woman behind the woman, but in terms of succession, there shouldn't be a problem there.

 

I didn't like Jaimie and Cersei passionately vowing to take everything back, mainly because I really want to see the break between them that's in the books.  I want Jaimie to see Cersei for who she truly is and start fighting on the "good" side.

 

I also disliked the immature dialogue in Dorne, between the Dothraki guys taking Dany to their Khal and between Cersei and Jaimie (when Jaimie said fuck this and fuck that, to be precise).  The world in the books is misogynistic, cruel and crass, but the characters never speak like that.  It feels way too modern and takes me out of the scenes completely.

 

Moving on to the better parts of the episode, I absolutely loved the scene of Brienne pledging her service to Sansa.  The acting was top notch there.  I'm okay with Sansa forgetting some of the words; she was always more interested in the fairytale aspect of the songs and the courtesies at court and how to be a proper lady.  She probably didn't witness as many men bend the knee at her father's keep as Catelyn did.  I'm hoping we'll see a more mature Sansa rallying the North against the Boltons and that she'll get to use all the cunning she supposedly learned from LF.

 

Melisandre saying she had seen Jon in the fire fighting at Winterfell is surely the show's "subtle" foreshadowing of Jon's upcoming resurrection.  I just hope that it doesn't involve any harm coming to Ghost.  A Stark needs a direwolf, dammit! Speaking of Ghost, in the books he's silent and never howls, I can't remember if we have heard him howl in the show before.  If not, that was a nice touch.  Ghost howling broke my heart, as well as, his growling when Thorne came knocking.  I hope Ghost gets to kill Thorne, rip his throat out.  That'd be very satisfying to watch.  He can also behead Ollie, while he's at it.  A boy's head should be small enough to fit in his jaws.

 

And Davos.  Davos is made of win.  Asking Thorne for food.... LMAO! That was awesome.

 

Someone posited that Melisandre decided to die to bring Jon back to life.  I hadn't considered that but the way she looked into the fire and then removed her glamour... Maybe.  I don't think it will be that easy, though.  She also saw herself walking the walls of Winterfell, so, I'm expecting something different for Jon's resurrection (and it better not involve anything bad happening to Ghost!)

Edited April 25, 2016 by WearyTraveler

[ParadoxLost]

But why Melisandre would give up on whatever she was giving up if it was not directly linked to resurrecting Jon one way or another? It can still be among flames, I guess.

 

The scene didn't read as Melisandre giving up anything to me.  I didn't take anything more away from it than sleeping without her glamor and being kind of depressed that both potential warriors for the Lord of Light are dead.  It didn't seem like she thought she could do or sacrifice anything to bring him back.  She was just worn down.

Edited April 25, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[Dev F]

It's true.

She didn't wear it there. But she did sprinkle herself with some potion or something. I'm sure they can fanwank it. ;)

 

Unless we learn otherwise, I'm gonna assume she wears the stone around her ankle when she bathes, or something like that. I don't know why they didn't just have her wearing her choker like normal, if they thought they might be pursuing this glamour storyline in the future. (And since the whole scene is about how Melisandre uses tricks and illusions to promote the Lord of Light, it seems likely that they were at least considering it.) If the glamour ended up not coming up in later episodes, it would still be an interesting, creepy character detail that she keeps the gem on even when she's completely naked.

[Howdyphillip]

What happens to the widows of the Khals is from the book.

It appears that I am wrong... It looks as if they are indeed taken to Vaes Dothrak, the only Dothraki city.

[CofCinci]

Melisandre is having a pity party. She'll wake with the solution to all their problems. Perhaps she is stronger when she takes off the glamour necklace.

[Lamima]

I love Ghost and Davos! That is all for now!

Them and Brianne...that is all for now.

[dbell1]

I've been binge watching the first few seasons in prep for tonight. I found that being able to skip over suckage such as Robb/Talisa and Ygritte made life so much better. I'll skip Every.Freaking.Dorne.Part next binge. The only way I'd watch if the dragons did a burn by and roasted some snakes.

I liked Sansa faltering in her speech. She has no hearth, or meat or mead to offer her savior knight. It was a nice callback to Catelyn and Brienne's pledging scene. She's been raped, beaten, and frozen. Hope Brienne and Pod brought some firewood and lemon cakes with them.

I wish I had a direwolf as a pet, Ghost is super loyal and got Davos' attention pretty quick. That room must be ripe. Just how much does a dead Lord Commander smell? I give him 2 episodes before Mel makes him undead. But, does that mean he leaves Castle Black? His watch is pretty much ended.

Dany is more tolerable when she's got her back up against a wall. But my eyes rolled when Ser Jorah found that ring in a sea of grass. Really? Guess greyscale gives you mad tracking skills.

ETA to say I love Arya. I got callbacks to her stick training with Syrio when the waif attacked her. And knowing Arya, it won't be long before she's holding her own.

ETA 2, Jorah isn't a woman named Norah...

Edited April 25, 2016 by dbell1

[Shanna Marie]

I didn't take anything more away from it than sleeping without her glamor and being kind of depressed that both potential warriors for the Lord of Light are dead.  It didn't seem like she thought she could do or sacrifice anything to bring him back.  She was just worn down.

That was my read, as well. I was struck by how lost and vulnerable she looked. It must seem to her like everything she'd believed in had turned out to be wrong, so she was giving up. But I'm not sure this means she's off the board as a way of reviving Jon. She may get her faith restored.

 

Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but wasn't the point of the Dorne plot in the books the fact that Doran seemed passive but was actually playing a very long game and was working on his revenge? It seems a shame to lose that. Maybe I'll reread the books and picture Alexander Siddig because it's a waste that he didn't get to play that material.

 

I love Davos, and I love that he thought of Ghost. I used to have a white German shepherd who looked a lot like Ghost (though much smaller -- "puppy" Ghost was basically like my dog), and that makes me rather partial to Ghost.

[Dev F]

But my eyes rolled when Ser Norah found that ring in a sea of grass. Really? Guess greyscale gives you mad tracking skills.

 

That didn't seem implausible to me. He found the ring in a small, distinct patch of green in the middle of a huge area of trampled grass -- because that's exactly where Dany was standing when the Dothraki rode up and surrounded her.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Dev F

[Artsda]

That was a great episode. It flew by so fast. Loved how they showed some of everyone's story, I wasn't expecting that. 

 

I loved Ghost being there by Jon the entire time. I kept wanting someone to do something, he's on the table, do something to bring him back.  

 

That ending was something, 

[apollonia666]

I got the feeling that they were eliminating Melisandre as a candidate to resurrect Jon.  Between Jon's body being secured by Davos, Mel saying she saying she saw him in flames, and the need to burn a body before it rises as a White Walker.  I'm thinking that the theory that they'll have Jon resurrect in fire is probably spot on along with all that implies.

Hmm... Daenerys survived a night in a fire with her dragon eggs.  Maybe resurrecting Jon in a fire would prove or at least give some more credence to the idea that they're siblings? (Edited: Folks have pointed out they would actually be aunt and nephew -- thank you!  My bad.)

Edited April 25, 2016 by apollonia666

[areca]

I don't think the glamor is in the necklace.  I think it's just a spell she keeps up and being naked and unadorned was symbolic.

[WearyTraveler]

I'm getting a vision of Jon resurrecting from his own funeral pyre while Mel recites the prophesy from the books.  He would be the only other character to avoid being burnt by fire, like Dany, hinting his Targ heritage, which will then be revealed via

Bran's vision flashback to the TOJ

Hmm... Daenerys survived a night in a fire with her dragon eggs.  Maybe resurrecting Jon in a fire would prove or at least point to their being siblings?

 

We had the same thought about Jon's resurrection, but he's not Dany's brother, he's Dany's nephew.  Rhaegar, Jon's father, was Dany's eldest brother

[RedheadZombie]

I know the point seemed to be made that it was Melisandre's necklace that gave her youth, but I wonder if being with Stannis helped her as well. She had sex with Gendry and attempted to seduce Jon, and each time it seemed more to do with a spell than desire. I'm wondering if she leeches off powerful men and needs to find another to rebuild her strength.

[Cherpumple]

It's true.

[Melisandre] didn't wear it there. But she did sprinkle herself with some potion or something. I'm sure they can fanwank it. ;)

 

I think her power was stronger then as well, making her able to keep the glamour more firmly in place (so to speak), whereas ever since she returned to Castle Black she's looked frail and weak, like she's coming down with the flu, which probably caused her glamour to disappear more quickly. Also, seeing her climb into bed under the fur covers indicates that she now feels cold and/or fatigue, which I don't think she ever did before. Will she get her strength back? I can't wait to see!

 

I loved the scene with Sansa and Brienne (and Theon and Pod). I really hope that Sansa can blossom a bit, now that she's with someone who genuinely has her best interests at heart and who isn't a jealous aunt, a lecherous creep, or a violent psychopath. Huzzah for Brienne!

[Howdyphillip]

I've been binge watching the first few seasons in prep for tonight. I found that being able to skip over suckage such as Robb/Talisa and Ygritte made life so much better. I'll skip Every.Freaking.Dorne.Part next binge. The only way I'd watch if the dragons did a burn by and roasted some snakes.

I liked Sansa faltering in her speech. She has no hearth, or meat or mead to offer her savior knight. It was a nice callback to Catelyn and Brienne's pledging scene. She's been raped, beaten, and frozen. Hope Brienne and Pod brought some firewood and lemon cakes with them.

I wish I had a direwolf as a pet, Ghost is super loyal and got Davos' attention pretty quick. That room must be ripe. Just how much does a dead Lord Commander smell? I give him 2 episodes before Mel makes him undead. But, does that mean he leaves Castle Black? His watch is pretty much ended.

Dany is more tolerable when she's got her back up against a wall. But my eyes rolled when Ser Jorah found that ring in a sea of grass. Really? Guess greyscale gives you mad tracking skills.

ETA to say I love Arya. I got callbacks to her stick training with Syrio when the waif attacked her. And knowing Arya, it won't be long before she's holding her own.

ETA 2, Jorah isn't a woman named Norah...

 I actually think they did a really good job explaining visually how Jorah found the ring. The Dothraki had surrounded her, and the tracks of the horses left a clear circle where she would have been standing. It was something that I thought was going to be rubbish last year explained nicely.

[lmsweb]

Only problem with Jon resurrecting from fire is that we've seen that he can, indeed, be hurt by fire - his hand was badly burnt during his fight against the undead when he grabbed the lantern to save Lord Mormont. Not sure how they're going to make that work, although in theory I agree it is the most plausible way to go about it (unless they teleport Thoros of Myr there in the next episode).

[Pogojoco]

I sort of enjoyed Thorne talking about how the Wildlings raped on the land they were given, when supposedly a good portion of these jerks are rapists. That's why they are banished to the Night's Watch. What a tremendously stupid and small minded bunch. The guy who plays Thorne is great, though. Always has been.

 

Edd touching Jon's face was really lovely. And Ser Davos is also great.

 

I don't quite know what the stuff with Melisandre means- it's established in the book that she's very old, though, so that fits. Maybe she's given up because Stannis is dead or maybe she's somehow sacrificing herself for Jon. It was spooky, whatever it was. 

 

I was very glad to see Brienne catch up with Sansa and Theon. More Sansa and Theon, please. Ramsey's scene with Myranda was perfect. 

 

I have never cared about Dorne except for Oberyn Martell- he's been dead for two books and for more than a season. I still don't care. I can't believe they keep spending time with them at all. 

 

Dany was kind of old school Dany- pretending to not understand the language until it's useful for her to do so was very Season 2 and hanging out with Dothraki is obviously very Season 1. Did the dragon just fly away? 

Hmm... Daenerys survived a night in a fire with her dragon eggs.  Maybe resurrecting Jon in a fire would prove or at least give some more credence to the idea that they're siblings?

They aren't siblings. They are aunt and nephew. (If the theory is true) ETA (sorry to double correct you.) 

Edited April 25, 2016 by Pogojoco

[WatchrTina]

 

Just how much does a dead Lord Commander smell?

John's only been dead for a few hours and it's COLD up north.  If you want to wonder about dead bodies and smells, think about Mycelia's dead body on that ship in the heat for how many days?  It's really disgusting if you think about it.  Which is why it makes no sense that Trystanne would remain on the ship, which must still reek of death. Unless that ship is like an embassy in a foreign land -- sovereign territory where he feels safe.  And that WOULD explain how the Sand Snakes got on board -- they'd be recognized by the Dornish guards, who I presume are still on board.  But I do still wonder why Trystanne decided to accompany the dead body of his fiancee back to King's Landing.  It just makes no sense.

 

 

Rhaegar, Jon's father, was Dany's eldest brother

Only if you believe that R + L = J, which is a pretty common theory but still not confirmed.

Edited April 25, 2016 by WatchrTina

[Oscirus]

I'm actually intrigued by the Dorne storyline. At least something is finally happening there and now that  they have a blood thirsty leader,  I think Dorne vs King's landing could be fun.

  I found the Trystanne murder scene to be tense. Why did the writers feel the need to kill the tension by inserting humor at the end ?

Also why did Ellaria wait a week to kill Doran?  Was there really a strong need for Doran to know that they killed Myrcella?

I think Obara and Nymeria are on what amounts to a suicide mission as Strong is probably going to destroy them.

 

So Kings Landing was mighty quiet. I guess they're saving bloodthirsty Cersei for later episodes.

 

Bravos, eh, whatever.  Wake me up when they're done training.

 

Mereen felt like one big data dump. It's always fun to watch Tyrion and Varys and I'm always happy to see Tyrion in good spirits, but other then the destruction of Dany's ships, not much happened.

 

I liked the wall.  The Mellisandra reveal was alright and it setup the oncoming fight over Snow's body quite nicely.

 

The North was great. We got Stannis death confirmation for those still in doubt, Brienne finally keeping her promise to lady stark was great. I also love that Ramsey isn't sentimental. enough to waste good meat. Also does anybody else feel sorry for poor Walda? Ramsey's going to wreck her so bad.

 

All in all a good setup episode. Hopefully the pace picks up.

[ParadoxLost]

That was my read, as well. I was struck by how lost and vulnerable she looked. It must seem to her like everything she'd believed in had turned out to be wrong, so she was giving up. But I'm not sure this means she's off the board as a way of reviving Jon. She may get her faith restored.

 

I think Melisandre is off the board for reviving Jon for the simple reason that his own people assassinated him.  They can't really afford to have Melisandre practicing dark arts or whatever to revive Jon and making Jon somewhat lesser or beholden to Melisandre for it.  I think they are going to have to go for an epic moment that rivals Dany's Mother of Dragons moment.  They have to do this to make him a contender for the Throne or capable of beating the White Walkers.

 

This is why I'm leaning more and more towards Jon rising from a funeral pyre without interference from anyone;  but because he's been chosen for a purpose by some higher being or something intrinsic to who Jon is and no person will be able to claim responsibility for his resurrection. 

[MadMouse]

I hate the character of Ramsay with the fire of a thousand suns and I don't like the super!Ramsay stuff but I don't have a problem with the Boltons being 'humanized' if that's what's going on. It only makes them more complex instead of being one note villains. 

 

My problem with the Boltons is the lack of consistency. Like, why is Roose giving Ramsay the lecture about treating Sansa terribly now? Why didn't he tell him on the day of their wedding that he couldn't play his sick and twisted games with her? It's like Roose woke up all of a sudden when he would have had these opinions from the very beginning.

 

Ramsay's conversation with Myranda's body sounded very in character for me and I feel that Myranda deserved her fate so I didn't have any problems with that scene. She was awful from an early age just as Cersei was. 

 

 

I have to disagree what makes Ramsay a great villain is his lack of humanity. He's a sadistic brute that enjoys being cruel. While on the other end of the spectrum is Roose who is just as big of a monster who toys with people. It also doesn't help that both actors are likable in general. Its the same thing they did with Tywin and his kindly grandfather scenes with Arya,

 

As for the lack of consistency that's because the North's storyline is like a Frankenstein monster. Characters removed or replaced leads to this.

[Lamima]

Felt is was a really disappointing premier. Dorn was dumb. The walk with Tyrian and Varys was dumb-the threat on the wall silly. The Dany stuff with the Dothraki was dumb. The running through the river with Sansa and Theon was unbelievable as they would go into hypothermia. I liked the Jamie and Cersei scene until he dropped the F bomb a few times. Hate when they sound too modern. 

 

I liked the Wall stuff and I liked that Brianne and Pod saved the day. I liked some of the Lanister stuff. Looking forward to Cersei unleashing her wrath. Liked the scene with the evil father and son (what's their names...the Sansa husband). Liked that he told his son that he was hoping his wife was preggers with a new son/heir.

 

2 questions: what is the Mel Crone supposed to be about? Just that she's an old women? Is she the wrong basket for Davos to put all his eggs in?

And 2- why did the snakes have access to Trystane? wasn't he on the boat to KL with Jamie? And wouldn't Jamie have killed him out of vengeance or locked him up tight in KL?

[WearyTraveler]

Only problem with Jon resurrecting from fire is that we've seen that he can, indeed, be hurt by fire - his hand was badly burnt during his fight against the undead when he grabbed the lantern to save Lord Mormont. Not sure how they're going to make that work, although in theory I agree it is the most plausible way to go about it (unless they teleport Thoros of Myr there in the next episode).

 

Did that happen before the dragons were born? Because if it did, that could be a plausible explanation.

[Pogojoco]

Jon surviving the funeral pyre would be a good way to introduce to non-book readers the idea that Jon is a Targaryen. It calls back to Dany's pyre, which is one of the most memorable visual moments of Season 1. 

[benteen]

I kept expecting Bronn to show up and kill the Sand Snakes.  I guess he decided to get out of town once Cersei saw her daughter's body.

[Mya Stone]

what is the Mel Crone supposed to be about? Just that she's an old women? Is she the wrong basket for Davos to put all his eggs in?

I believe it not only actually shows her dropping her guard (in this instance, her glamour), because her faith has been shaken to the core, but also serves to illustrate just how broken she is, and that she only believes herself to be an illusionist now. In every other season, she's been all bluster about how the Lord of Light is everything and he shows her so much - but she couldn't even see Stannis's death coming, and she believes that her seeing Jon at Winterfell in the flames is also a lie.

I still think she'll be involved in his resurrection, but this is the VERY lowest point she's ever been - and now that's she's hit her rock bottom, she'll start to rise again. (As will Jon. See what I did there?)

Or her faith will rise again when Jon rises from his pyre. Either way is satisfying to me.

[WatchrTina]

 

I kept expecting Bronn to show up and kill the Sand Snakes.

This episode did suffer from a profound lack of Bronn.  But I guess he got off that smelly boat and hot-footed it back to Lolly's castle because shit is getting REAL in King's Landing.

[polyhymnia]

And honestly, I got a little teared up when Brienne swore to Sansa...that was a powerful, fantastic bit.

[lmsweb]

Did that happen before the dragons were born? Because if it did, that could be a plausible explanation.

 

Hmmm...I'd have to go back and recheck on the episodes. I know they made a point of showing Dany couldn't be hurt by fire or heat even before the dragons were born and that this is because she is the blood of the dragon (or however it was worded).

 

Someone made a comment about the word fuck being too modern and wrecking scenes but that word has been used consistently throughout the history of the show, along with the words cunt, tits, ass, pussy, shit and cum and probably a bunch more that I'm sure Tyrion could fill in.

[WearyTraveler]

I think Melisandre is off the board for reviving Jon for the simple reason that his own people assassinated him.  They can't really afford to have Melisandre practicing dark arts or whatever to revive Jon and making Jon somewhat lesser or beholden to Melisandre for it.  I think they are going to have to go for an epic moment that rivals Dany's Mother of Dragons moment.  They have to do this to make him a contender for the Throne or capable of beating the White Walkers.

 

This is why I'm leaning more and more towards Jon rising from a funeral pyre without interference from anyone;  but because he's been chosen for a purpose by some higher being or something intrinsic to who Jon is and no person will be able to claim responsibility for his resurrection. 

 

This is the way I hope it happens in the books and on the show.  I think the books heavily point to R+L=J= Azor Ahai= Ice and Fire (the title of the series).  And I feel Azor Ahai's rebirth has to be something huge, given the very real, scary threat that is the WW army just beyond the Wall.

[polyhymnia]

(Quoted Mya about getting choked up about Sansa and Brienne but it isn't showing on my phone)

I did too, enough that Dorne pissed me off but not as much as it probably would have. Brienne getting a win (two, I guess, as she killed Stannis) was lovely.

Edited April 25, 2016 by polyhymnia