S01.E11: The Magnificent Eight

[elle]

 

H.G. Wells was English.

Thank you!  At least "Warehouse 13" remember that little fact.

 

 

Did they invent some story as to how he ended up in 1871 South Dakota?

Since the real H.G. was at the Thomas Morley's Commercial Academy, in Kent, England, until 1880, according to his biography, maybe a student exchange program?

[tarotx]

I think the show was saying that since HG was dying, his dying wish was to visit the old west. It was just a trip and one that was so unbelievable to believe he didn't share the story with anyone? 

[justjoan]

 

I'm sure the writers are having fun with these "Forrest Gump" moments, but really, H.G. Wells was English.  Did they invent some story as to how he ended up in 1871 South Dakota?

 

"Sarah Neal: He has the consumption, they say.

Martin: Tuberculosis.

Sarah Neal: He's been like this, on and off, for about a year now. He always wanted to see the American West. Our doctor thought a constitutional might do him some good. It hasn't, clearly."

 

So they were there for the dry Western climate, a very popular reason to visit the West, historically speaking, though not one of which HG Wells ever partook (as far as I know). I suppose writers can't always be running to the Doc Holliday well, though.

 

eta- as for his accent, well, not every kid actor is great at accents. You make do. Jonas Hunter was apparently also raised in the part of London knows as "Little Toronto."

 

I'm excited for the next episode and the Pilgrim seems cool and thankfully not much like the comics character, but I'm worried about the timeline (hahahaha! But seriously...). I'm lousy at guessing ages, but if that is Young Mick Rory, he looks way too young in 1990 for his timeline to work with a Snart who was ~14 in 1984/5/6.

Edited April 15, 2016 by justjoan

[Sakura12]

I think HG and his mother were British. They were just visiting the Old West as a last trip for him. They probably could've just said his last name was Wells so we'd think he was an ancestor of Harrison Wells from the Flash.

 

Plus this is H.G. Wells. And she managed to Time Travel being fronzen in bronze in Warehouse 13. 

[twoods]

Kendra's older self also plays Bow's mom on Blackish. Great to see her.

Fun episode. Ray is so adorkable. Loved the team continuing to have each other's back. It was a pleasant surprise seeing Jonah, because I loved Johnathon as the guy in That Thing You Do. Hope to see him again.

[Snorfbat]

I'm sure the writers are having fun with these "Forrest Gump" moments, but really, H.G. Wells was English.  Did they invent some story as to how he ended up in 1871 South Dakota?

IRL, Bertie Wells was hospitalized at the age of eight (for a leg injury that healed badly) and his mother read fantasy books to him, which started him on his path. I think this fictionalized version did a nice job of capturing the spirit of that real-life story while, of course, mangling the details.

 

ETA: In the recap, Jeff said:

 

He's called "Bertie," which does not occur to me to be a possible nickname for a well-known historical figure.

FWIW, Herbert George Wells did go by the nickname "Bertie" as a boy.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Snorfbat

[MissLucas]

I think Time Stumblers would be a more appropriate name for these people than Time Travelers. But at least they are aware of how horribly they tend to mess up things. As usual the characters are great but better not think to hard about the plot. Throughout the episode I wondered why the Time Masters don't simply take out the whole bunch by killing them in their past - the Omega Protocol should have been enacted a long time ago.

 

I had somehow hoped that Kendra falling for Ray would be something new for the character and maybe that Savage's head would explode at the simple fact that she broke the cycle of doomed romance. But apparently she tried that before and it did not work - not because Savage would kill those guys too but because they were not her 'soulmate'. So it looks like we have to deal with Carter's return soon.

 

For anyone with a coat-fetish this was a perfect episode.

Edited April 15, 2016 by MissLucas

[kieyra]

I actually thought Anna Deveare Smith was pretty inspired casting for older/battle-worn Kendra, and I bet the show felt lucky to get her. (Her background is stuff like The West Wing and Nurse Jackie.)

[Starfish35]

Yeah, there was definitely an ex-lovers vibe going on with Rip and Jonah. I have no idea whether it was intentional, since Rip was apparently married to Miranda at the time, but...yeah.

It was a fun episode. Poor Ray, always wanting to be the hero. Snart and Stein were great, and although I think Mick's snapped out of his Chronos brainwashing a little too quickly, I think it's also improved the character.

As a Sara fan, I do wish she'd gotten to stay and fight with the boys instead of tagging along with Kendra (mainly, apparently, so she could dispense advice at the end). I was looking forward to seeing that. But I do also get that other characters need a chance to shine as well. It was funny that she was able to drink Mick under the table though.

it's official - the only character I would let go without much second thought it Kendra. I like her enough, but if they are just going hit the whole fate/destiny thing on the head every episode - just let her go be with Carter in "not currently on a show but can be used as a guest star every now and then" ville.

Same here. It's been eleven episodes. And while I don't dislike Kendra at all - she's far too sweet for that - I also am just not interested in her storyline. I don't care about her soulmate connection with Carter. Not even a tiny little bit. And I was all for throwing destiny out the door and having her be with Ray but apparently it just can't be that simple. And I don't even know what the message is here. Am I supposed to be rooting for Kendra and Ray to beat the odds and defy fate? Or are they supposed to be the Barry/Patty to Kendra/Carter's Barry/Iris? The pairing that is ultimately always doomed because fate/destiny/soulmates/whatever. I don't know, but I'm just not here for that.

I'd love to see her become an awesome warrior and train with Sara and kick ass - but apparently, that is just not what I'm going to get. :(

Yeah I was all for this. Seeing her train, seeing her become this fierce warrior, seeing some of her history. But all her flashbacks have revolved around Carter and/or Savage, and I just don't care.

ETA: For those mentioning Jaime Murray's H.G. Wells, yes, she was awesome. :)

Edited April 16, 2016 by Starfish35

[Sakura12]

Thanks for reminding me about Jonathan Schaech, now I got that stupid song stuck in my head. 

[Jeezaloo]

It's a clever little charm of this show that the less seriously you take it, the better it gets. I have kinda high standards for FLASH and AGENTS OF SHIELD, but for this show the best thing you can do is shift your brain into park, let the motor idle, and just enjoy an hour of silly fun on the tee-vee screen.

[ottoDbusdriver]

It's a clever little charm of this show that the less seriously you take it, the better it gets. I have kinda high standards for FLASH and AGENTS OF SHIELD, but for this show the best thing you can do is shift your brain into park, let the motor idle, and just enjoy an hour of silly fun on the tee-vee screen.

 

If anything this show is a lot of fun.

[FurryFury]

It's interesting that somebody has mentioned Agents of SHIELD, because for me, LoT is the polar opposite; AoS manages to sometimes create OK plots - with different factions and agendas and such - but the characters just feel lifeless and dull. At least here, i care about some of them, while I had to drop AoS because I just couldn't, despite spending like 3 seasons with them.

[romantic idiot]

It's Skye-Daisy, and to some extent Coulson. They just suck the life out of everything. I find the rest of the characters pretty interesting. 

 

I also feel the same for Kendra, and, Jax. Not the least because i do think they are the weakest actors of the lot. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

It's interesting that somebody has mentioned Agents of SHIELD, because for me, LoT is the polar opposite; AoS manages to sometimes create OK plots - with different factions and agendas and such - but the characters just feel lifeless and dull. At least here, i care about some of them, while I had to drop AoS because I just couldn't, despite spending like 3 seasons with them.

 

For me, AoS is no longer even must-listen TV let alone must see TV -- I kind of listen to it in the background while doing laundry, it's just become oh so boring -- whereas I actually enjoy watching this show.

[Aeryn13]

Ray introduced himself as "John Wayne" to the townsfolk - I thought it was somewhat of a nod to Marty introducing himself as "Clint Eastwood" in Back to the Future 3 - and the bad guys so why in the last scene where they going with "this one will draw for Sheriff Palmer" and "Sheriff Palmer is a straight shooter"? The script writer couldn`t even remember what he wrote earlier? Sigh.

 

This was fun and I did like the Jonah Hex character. Definitely slash vibes with him and Rip.

 

I just don`t care about Kendra`s stupid love life. Are there no other facets to explore with her character? The actress is pretty bland to me but at least try something. Her love story angst with Ray bores me out of my mind. 

 

Speaking of Ray, I get that being an optimistic, good-hearted goofball is supposed to be his character but it borders on just being a comedy shtick. The character needs some balance.

 

Jax is barely getting anything to do.

 

This show really, really struggles to keep characters relevant. Snart and Stein have the snark and Sara the badassery to make an impression, Rip kinda does it through sheer, mindblowing incompetence but the others are a problem. Though I like that Mick is now well-versed in the time stuff and him and Rip talk above everyone`s heads. Hee.  

[diebartdie]

So, my takeaway from this episode was... Rip and Jonah were lovers.

 

 

 

OK. I was wondering if it was just in my head that Rip and Jonah came off as slashy. With no flashbacks of Rip's time in Calvert, every phrase seemed like it was loaded with pregnant pauses that hinted at some great love affair between the two of them. "I fell in love with... this time period with...the chance to be a hero." You can't start off their interactions together with Jonah complimenting Rip on how Rip looks in Jonah's jacket, follow up with the reveal that Rip named his son after Jonah, and have viewers wonder if there was something more between them.

 

 

Plus Rip's all, "Excuse me, I need to have a... word... with Jonah" and proceeds to disappear for a while with him, and with no reference to what their "word" was about.

 

I can't imagine that the writers were really trying to go that route- or that they would ever follow through with it, at any rate- but if they did, I would give them major props for one of the most daring things this show has done so far. It would almost make up for so much of the misfires they otherwise do for me.

 

In any case, it absolutely had those overtones, intended or not.

 

(EDIT: Come to think of it, given how hokey so much of the writing has been this season in my view, I wouldn't be surprised if they had written this without regard to how it played, and the actors took it upon themselves to add the subtext. That would be even better.)

 

 

I definitely figured Jonah and Rip had been a couple.  I'm going to be really annoyed if it turns out they weren't.  I thought it was excellent to introduce another LGBT character.  

Thanks yall, I saw it too and Im so glad not to be alone! As usual, I really enjoyed this episode, warts and all :)

[Delphi]

Yeah, there was definitely an ex-lovers vibe going on with Rip and Jonah. I have no idea whether it was intentional, since Rip was apparently married to Miranda at the time, but...yeah.

I think they were just seeing each other at the time. He said he had to tear himself away to return to his "then future wife". Edited April 16, 2016 by Delphi

[Starfish35]

Oh I didn't catch the "then future" part.

Not to take this thread too far off topic, but I agree with what seems to be the general sentiments on AoS. I think it's a far better written show, but Coulsen in particular is terribly bland, and I feel like if we lost him, SkyeDaisy, and Lincoln, and brought back Bobbi and Hunter it'd be a better show.

so why in the last scene where they going with "this one will draw for Sheriff Palmer" and "Sheriff Palmer is a straight shooter"? The script writer couldn`t even remember what he wrote earlier? Sigh.

Lol wow that's bad. I have to admit I didn't even catch that. But hahahahaha that's terrible.

Though I like that Mick is now well-versed in the time stuff and him and Rip talk above everyone`s heads. Hee.

Yes, I liked that part too. :)

Edited April 16, 2016 by Starfish35

[nksarmi]

Yea I didn't catch Sheriff Palmer either because I was distracted with Rip in dueling position. This episode made me simultaneously attracted to Rip and convinced he had a relationship with Jonah.  Odd.

 

Anyway, regarding Mick breaking his brainwashing - it kind of works for me after his line to the Hunter guy "I was never on your side.  I was on mine" or something to that effect. He wasn't taking orders from the Time Masters - it's just that what they wanted him to do fit with the fact that he was pissed at the gang and wanted to hurt them. Like he told Snart, they barely had to ask.

 

Now he knows the Time Masters will be hunting him too so he's switching sides again.  He's all about protecting his own butt.  That doesn't mean he likes any of them - he's just going to go with the people who will help him stay alive.  Actually I think he does like Sara and getting to hit Snart seems to have helped him feel better as well.

Edited April 16, 2016 by nksarmi

[KirkB]

Not surprisingly, this episode shows that the Time Masters are even bigger screw ups than Rip himself. They took the most unhinged, uncontrollable member of the team, calmed him down, gave him advanced training and weapons, and then let him loose. He was never in their control, he wasn't brainwashed or anything, he was a psychopath who was presented with a way to use that to his advantage. And at the end of the day what's best for Mick Rory is the only thing that Mick Rory actually cares about. Good job, guys.

[kismet]

I actually thought Anna Deveare Smith was pretty inspired casting for older/battle-worn Kendra, and I bet the show felt lucky to get her. (Her background is stuff like The West Wing and Nurse Jackie.)

I'm just real bummed they didn't use her more. I felt it was a missed opportunity. Maybe they can just go back and hang out with her more. It definitely was the first time I thought the Kendra character had any potential. I think her acting opposite of ADS made her a little bit more tolerable.

[tarotx]

I'm hoping we can see more ADS when we potentially visit Hex again next season. I would love to lose Kendra but visit these two again. 

[jhlipton]

I want this! I can imagine Sara wanting to dress like a knight and being the tiniest Knight that ever existed. 

 

You obviously have not met Sir Trudy Lacklandia:

 

(I wish I could find a better picture...)

 

What I took from this episode is that when Kendra and Carter regenerate, um I mean reincarnate, they get new bodies.  So that'd give the show the ability to recast Carter if they didn't like his wooden acting.

 

The flashback in the second part of the 60's trip had the same actor I think.  If so, they're stuck.

[spaulding]

This episode is full of fluffy fun. 

 

Cold looks hot as the Man in Black. 

 

Ray's passion to be a hero is sweet but someone needs to remind him that movies&TV are not the go to when heroing.

 

I like Ray, but he's a needy Boy Scout.  I question why it's so important for him to be a hero.  It's not going to fill that empty void.

 

I do hope Ray and Kendra get pushed back into the background soon. I don't care about their love. It's doomed and basic.

 

It is basic! 

 

I really liked the actress who played Older Kendra.  Anna Deavere Smith was amazing.  Loved her speech.  Past generations of Kendras have watched Carter die.  Past generations have genuinely loved other men.  Each generation dies at the hand of Savage. 

 

She accepts her destiny.  She sounds sad but doesn't feel sorry for herself.  She lives by herself to spare the mutual pain of another non-Carter coupling.  Heartbreak and death are the only two choices in her life. 

 

Replace Young Kendra with her.
 

Young Kendra is officially a Mary Sue.  Her relationship with Ray is meh, but because she's special, she and Ray will last.  Their relationship won't be anything like the ones that Older Kendra experienced.

 

Anyway, regarding Mick breaking his brainwashing - it kind of works for me after his line to the Hunter guy "I was never on your side.  I was on mine" or something to that effect. He wasn't taking orders from the Time Masters - it's just that what they wanted him to do fit with the fact that he was pissed at the gang and wanted to hurt them. Like he told Snart, they barely had to ask.

 

I liked that Mick went along with the Time Council because he benefited from it.  Everybody except Sarah had a self-inerested reason to join.   Mick was just being honest.  I will be disappointed if he and Cold stop stealing and looting.

 

Pilgrim from Jim Lee's Wildstorm imprint?  Now, if DC could revitalize my beloved Grifter without making him a douche...

 

I hate to say it, but Rip was kinda hot at the dual.  When he pushed his coat aside to pull out his gun...

 

If Rip's backstory didn't include a dead family, he would be so much better.  He stayed on the ship to sulk and to plot the next move.

 

Forget about the Time Council and the dead, boring family.  This show should be about helping people, having fun, and screwing the timelines.  If Rip's purpose is to middle-mange a bunch of likeable monkeys with blowtorches...well, that's your premise right there. 

 

Anti-heroes who inadvertently do some good.  Or at least don't make it worst.  [That's your tag, Berlanti.  You're welcome.]

Edited April 17, 2016 by spaulding

[Starfish35]

The problem I had is that older Kendra says that it always ends in tragedy and heartbreak if the man is anyone but Carter. Well that's conveniently leaving out that her life with Carter always ends in tragedy and heartbreak as well. So what do you do?

I'm not sure Kendra and Ray are going to get a happy ending though. I'm still thinking that Kendra will end up dying killing off Savage at the end of the season, and then Ray will run into her in her next life, happy with Carter, without any VS chasing them anymore.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Starfish35

[Lady Calypso]

Yeah, I had issues with the Kendra subplot because I have a feeling I know where it'll end up. Kendra will fight against her older self's prediction but by the end of the season, her and Ray will have broken up and her and Carter will somehow be reunited before the big VS fight. It'll basically make Kendra's subplot this episode become pointless, because her older self would be right. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Of course her and Ray won't last, because of this 'epic' love between her and Carter. Even though older Kendra just spent years alone in a cabin and isolated....I just think she became bitter, but that's my opinion. 

 

Personally, I would have been fine with no romance storyline. 

 

As for the episode, it was good. I loved the Jonah Hex character. I also thought him and Rip might have had a love affair before Rip married his wife, and that we would actually have a secondary LGBT character in the main cast. Now THAT would actually be interesting. They kept it mostly implied, which means this really could be the case. 

 

It was good to see Mick be on his own side, but fight the Time Masters. Him and Sara's bonding is always good to see.

[Krazykate58]

I loved this episode alot.  It was a fun ride. True Rip is not a leader as leaders go, but he did choose people that would be at home at Delta House and St Trinian's.

I loved seeing Sara drink Mick under the table, and how Ray never gives his real name but the name of some famous person. I like the way the team is going from a non working team but a family more akin to the Adams family, but still a family of sorts. 

Kendra meeting her older self was bound to happen sooner or later , I'm glade they got it out of the way. Marten meeting H.G. Wells was priceless. I wish they would do something on Mick and Lens relationship. I know Mick is back with the others even if it is for his own resins , they need to touch on where he and Len stand with each other. Those two had been friends and partners off and on for years. Something like that just doesn't go away over night.  They all ready did the put them in a room together and see what happens . That is something I hope they touch on latter. 

[Trini]

Fun fact: Anna Deavere Smith also in The Human Stain with Wentworth Miller, playing his mother.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

A Hex Is Cast Upon The Legends Of Tomorrow
The Legends deliver a town called Salvation, with an assist from an old friend of Rip's.

[Ceindreadh]

On 16 April 2016 at 11:22 PM, kismet said:

I'm just real bummed they didn't use her more. I felt it was a missed opportunity. Maybe they can just go back and hang out with her more. It definitely was the first time I thought the Kendra character had any potential. I think her acting opposite of ADS made her a little bit more tolerable.

If Kendra looks the same in all her incarnations then any time they run into an older version of her they'll have to get ADS back. 

[Sakura12]

Our first trip back to the old west and meeting Jonah Hex. I've always liked the old west episodes because the cast always looks like they are having fun playing cowboys. It makes me want to watch the Season 2 old west episode.

I loved new Mick being the one that had the info on the hunters and the time travel knowledge. Being Chronos for however many years really made him grow as a person. And of course I loved that Sara drank him under the table and he missed the bar fight. 

Seeing Kendra meet an older version of herself could've been more interesting if it wasn't just about her love live. That Kendra obviously survived longer without Hawkman being around. Makes me wonder if it's really destiny or Hawkman drilling it into her head that she has to wait around for him forever and that causes her to never move on and sabotage her own relationships. 

[Starfish35]

Yeah, this show is just so much better without Savage.  

A fun episode.  Mick showing off his Chronos knowledge- I wish they showed more of that in later episodes.  First meeting with Jonah Hex - I still think, intentional or not, there’s a definite exes vibe between him and Rip.  Sara outdrinking Mick and of course the whole team gets involved in a bar fight.  Mick saying they could have used Sara on the trip to arrest Stillwater - even when they were at odds, he’s always been one of her biggest fans.  Jonah being appalled by the idea of a lady fighting - that will come into play in their next visit.  And on a shallow note, Snart looks especially good in cowboy gear.  😄

What wasn’t so good....Kendra’s storyline, again. (And unfortunately it was Sara’s turn to be pulled into it.)  This was never the greatest thing in the world, but at this point in the season, it’s really starting to get old.  You can see, on one hand, the show showing signs of what it would eventually evolve into, in the main storyline.  And on the other hand, you have this other storyline that just.....drags the show down.