The Star Wars Saga

[absnow54]

But that fits into an idea I have that opening yourself to the Force, as Obi Wan teaches Luke to do, increases your sensitivity, and your potential to wield it. While never doing so, like Leia, stunts your growth.

This is an interesting point, especially since Qui Gon suspected that Anakin was Force sensitive due to his reflexes and intuition, but still needed a test to confirm it. It wasn't as simple as closing your eyes and saying "That guy should be a Jedi." Which is why I think Vader's "The Force is strong in this one" could have been him observing Luke's piloting skills, where he could use the Force to sense the future obstacles and anticipate them. (This leads to my favorite meme Force Sensitive Han.) It was only when he learned the pilot's name was Skywalker that he put two and two together.

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

I'm quite happy to forget all about midichlorians, and the rather weak attempt to explain the Force through pseudo-scientific nonsense. The Force works better when it's an undefined, mystical energy that surrounds everything.

The Force is still a mystical energy field. Nothing said in the prequels contradicts that. If anything it made it more spiritual, when Qui Gon said finding Anakin was the "will of the Force". Midichlorians only explain why some people are more powerful in the Force than others. It's not really more scientific than the "magical blood" explanation in the Harry Potter universe. Wizard powers can be genetic, when born to parents who are either one are  both magical and it can be completely random, when the parents are "muggles"(non-magic).  Similarly in the Star Wars galaxy here's no explanation most of the time on why 1 out of what must be a hundred billion are born with Jedi powers.  The point of the midichlorians is that to show symbiotic lifeforms living together for mutual benefit which is later reflected when the Naboo makes peace with the Gungans to defeat the Trade Federation.

Edited January 10, 2017 by VCRTracking

[benteen]

2 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Obi Wan knew she was pregnant. He said to her earlier "Anakin's the father isn't he?" I don't think he could sense how many were in her womb.

I'm embarrassed to say it was only while watching the Bright Lights documentary that I realized Carrie had been wearing dentures for the past couple of years and that's why she had that slight lisp and why she doesn't grin anymore in pictures(she truly had a beautiful smile) and instead does the duck lips. I didn't notice in TFA because there wasn't much for her to smile about in that movie.

Yes, Obi-Wan knew Padme was pregnant.  I was just pointing out that he didn't know or sense it was with twins.

[Perfect Xero]

5 hours ago, absnow54 said:

 

Yeah, Leia and Vader's interactions in Episode IV make it really difficult to make a case for her Force sensitivity. It's obvious that they've interacted on some political level before the Death Star plans are stolen, and then he's present for her interrogation and destruction of Alderaan. It takes him 0.025 seconds to sense Luke's connection to the Force, and that's during a space dog fight in separate ships. Maybe he'd taken note of Leia's Force presence year's ago when he first met her, but for a character who blathers on about the Force in every scene (seriously one of my favorite scenes is when Vader is like "IT'S THE FORCE!" and Tarkin tightly smiles all "Sure it is, crazy...")

I think that being in the middle of a space dog fight is a situation that would actually make it more likely that Vader would notice Luke. Luke had received at least a little bit of force training and was being guided by Force Ghost Obi Wan, Vader, being in the middle of a pitched battled was likely drawing heavily on the Force himself which would probably make it easier to notice someone else who was using the Force. Luke was probably drawing more heavily on the Force than anyone he'd met in combat outside of Obi Wan in years, certainly much more than a completely untrained Leia would have been in a political situation.

Also once Vader figured out who Luke was his goal became taking him as an apprentice to overthrow the Emperor. Vader might have sensed Leia's force potential and played in close to the vest with Tarkin so word wouldn't get back to Palpy that Vader had a potential apprentice under thumb.

[benteen]

Right.  When Vader says, almost casually, "The Force is strong in this one" it's when Obi-Wan is contacting Luke, which means Luke is tuned into the Force at that point.

[jah1986]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

Right.  When Vader says, almost casually, "The Force is strong in this one" it's when Obi-Wan is contacting Luke, which means Luke is tuned into the Force at that point.

That's how I remember it too. It's been a while since I've seen the original trilogy but I thought it was after Obi Wan started talking to Luke that Vader kind of senses "this pilot is a bit different". Also, although they had no meaningful contact in any films I always thought Vader had almost a soft spot for Leia (not the right words) but he never seemed to hurt her physically and if I remember correctly he was the one that postponed her execution.  And I never saw his holding back during the destruction of Alderaan as menacing (maybe I need to watch these movies again).

[anna0852]

Vader was the one bringing the interrogation  (torture) droid into Leia's cell. I don't think that indicates a soft spot.

[absnow54]

Also, although they had no meaningful contact in any films I always thought Vader had almost a soft spot for Leia (not the right words) but he never seemed to hurt her physically and if I remember correctly he was the one that postponed her execution.

The scene where he brings the mind probe droid to interrogate her is pretty menacing, but it all happens off screen. I think he mostly postpones Leia's execution because she's the key to recovering the Death Star plans, even though all of their previous attempts to get them from her were futile. In the end, her rescue led them directly to the rebel base, so his intuition was a good one.

On the other hand, I think the trilogy still works with Vader subconsciously having a soft spot for Leia due to her similarities to Padme. The films then come off as a frustrated father trying to reel in his rebelling daughter before his boss gets too mad. A New Hope has him stalling and coming up with excuses for her while they try to extract information from her. He takes away her planet as punishment, and she protests as if her were taking away her car. Then in Empire, although he's obsessing over Luke, he spends two thirds of the movie chasing her boyfriend's ship across the galaxy to intercept her before she reaches the rebellion, and when he finally catcher her in Bespin, decides that he's going to hold her hostage even though Luke's already fallen into his trap. (I know he's probably holding onto her as an insurance policy in case Luke gets away, he'll be able to use her as bait to lure him back...) It makes his statement in Return of the Jedi almost comical, "If you will not turn, then perhaps she will..." when he's spent a good portion of the trilogy trying to get her under control.

[jah1986]

Yes, that's what I meant, not exactly a soft spot (obviously) but something there that kept him from just killing her.

[VCRTracking]

Leia's ability to resist the mind probe(which puzzled Vader) could be seen as her somehow tapping her latent Force powers without her knowing it.

[Kel Varnsen]

On ‎2017‎-‎01‎-‎10 at 3:43 PM, benteen said:

Yes, Obi-Wan knew Padme was pregnant.  I was just pointing out that he didn't know or sense it was with twins.

Which, as an article I read a week or two ago pointed out, in a galaxy far far way they have light speed travel but apparently they don't have OB/GYN's.

[Danny Franks]

22 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Which, as an article I read a week or two ago pointed out, in a galaxy far far way they have light speed travel but apparently they don't have OB/GYN's.

But they do have whimsical, poetic robot doctors, who are programmed to diagnose 'losing the will to live' as a valid medical condition.

[Skyline]

On 1/10/2017 at 0:58 PM, VCRTracking said:

 

Star Wars Episode 8 will explore Kylo Ren's "humanity", says Adam Driver

 

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/star-wars/news/a818409/star-wars-episode-8-will-explore-kylo-rens-humanity-says-adam-driver/

Edited January 14, 2017 by Skyline

[VCRTracking]

In spite of recent rumors about Disney in negotiations with Carrie Fisher's estate,

Star Wars: Lucasfilm Has “No Plans” To Digitally Recreate Carrie Fisher as Leia

Official statement from Lucasfilm at Star Wars.com :
 

Quote

 

We don’t normally respond to fan or press speculation, but there is a rumor circulating that we would like to address. We want to assure our fans that Lucasfilm has no plans to digitally recreate Carrie Fisher’s performance as Princess or General Leia Organa.

Carrie Fisher was, is, and always will be a part of the Lucasfilm family. She was our princess, our general, and more importantly, our friend. We are still hurting from her loss. We cherish her memory and legacy as Princess Leia, and will always strive to honor everything she gave to Star Wars.

 

[CofCinci]

On 1/14/2017 at 1:00 PM, Skyline said:

Star Wars Episode 8 will explore Kylo Ren's "humanity", says Adam Driver

 

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/star-wars/news/a818409/star-wars-episode-8-will-explore-kylo-rens-humanity-says-adam-driver/

How predictable.

[Morrigan2575]

11 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

How predictable.

Hmm, I don't have a problem with them "exploring" his humanity as long as it's part of his travels down the darkside. Like what led to Ben being corrupted or Luke trying to reach Ben and bring him.back, while Kylo goes further Darkside.  I'm probably in major denial but, I just don't want him redeemed, not after Han Solo. Plus, I kind of just want a total evil badass, like we got with Vader in Rogue One, ANH and Empire.

[VCRTracking]

If they wanted Kylo to be a two dimensional villain they wouldn't have made him Han and Leia's son.

I just hope there's still going to be a lot more petty moments between him and General Hux. I enjoyed it between Tarkin and Krennic in Rogue One. The absolute bitchiest moment in all  the Star Wars movies though?  In Episode I when Sabe the handmaiden(Keira Knightley) disguised as Queen Amidala makes the real queen, Padme clean up Artoo Detoo!

Edited January 16, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Joe]

Just now, VCRTracking said:

The absolute bitchiest moment in all  the Star Wars movies though?  In Episode I when Sabe the handmaiden(Keira Knightley) disguised as Queen Amidala makes the real queen, Padme clean up Artoo Detoo!

I have a theory about that. Beforehand, she said to her decoy, "I need a bit of manual labour to help me think, and I want to sound out that Gungan." It's better than the decoy just abusing her power.

[VCRTracking]

I think Padme feels guilty about another person risking their life for her so she's willing to let herself be bossed around without complaining.

[Morrigan2575]

35 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

If they wanted Kylo to be a two dimensional villain they wouldn't have made him Han and Leia's son.

I don't want a 2 dimensional villain I just want a freaking Sith Lord (Knight of Ren) to pick the Darkside and stick with it. No redemption, no 'there's still good inside Him'. 

We can explore his humanity, just don't freaking redeem him. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

We can explore [Kylo's] humanity, just don't freaking redeem him. 

Seconded.

Even putting aside that Kylo murdered Han in cold blood, any redemption would mean we don't get the "real" Vader, the one we saw in Rogue One. I would honestly rather see him as unapologetically evil instead of trying to walk him back from what he did. Let him grow beyond the whiny man-child, sure, but don't do the predictable thing.

[Jediknight]

7 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

I think Padme feels guilty about another person risking their life for her so she's willing to let herself be bossed around without complaining.

And she knows it absolutely is a great way to show gratitude.  R2 was being cleaned by the Queen.

[VCRTracking]

On 1/15/2017 at 7:58 PM, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I would honestly rather see him as unapologetically evil instead of trying to walk him back from what he did. Let him grow beyond the whiny man-child, sure, but don't do the predictable thing.

I want him to at least be as snarky and entertaining as his parents were albeit in an evil way. You see the first Star Wars and how fun both Han and Leia are individually and with each other, making off-the-cuff wisecracks Han: "What kept you?" Leia: "We ran into some old friends!". It's like on The Golden Girls whenever one of their kids visits and you think "How could such vivacious, interesting women have such boring children?"

Edited January 17, 2017 by VCRTracking

[BetterButter]

[Danny Franks]

58 minutes ago, BetterButter said:

Not bad, as names go. It sounds potentially ominous, of course. I would think that this movie will be darker than The Force Awakens. Luke is still, even twenty years later, the only Jedi around, and is now faced with trying again to resurrect the order. Or at least to train Rey.

[Constantinople]

9 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Luke is still, even twenty years later, the only Jedi around, and is now faced with trying again to resurrect the order. Or at least to train Rey.

Speaking of, training Luke should consider updating it.  Of course stories like these will emphasize the bad eggs, but even so, the Jedi selection process and training seems a little buggy.

[ulkis]

Was the original trilogy aired at all lately? I would have thought someone would have aired it in honor of CF but unless I missed it, it doesn't seem like anyone has.

On 1/16/2017 at 2:07 PM, VCRTracking said:

I want him to at least be as snarky and entertaining as his parents were albeit in an evil way. You see the first Star Wars and how fun both Han and Leia are individually and with each other, making off-the-cuff wisecracks Han: "What kept you?" Leia: "We ran into some old friends!". It's like on The Golden Girls whenever one of their kids visits and you think "How could such vivacious, interesting women have such boring children?"

It seems to me it's always very hard to write the next generation of beloved characters imo. You want them to have recognizable traits from the parents but at the same time be their own character (or in the case of the Star Wars prequels, show the traits of the children in the parents) , and it's hard to do that a lot of the time.

[Browncoat]

The original trilogy (along with the Trilogy That Shall Not Be Named) were all played quite a lot right around Christmas and New Year's.

[ulkis]

I didn't realize this - did Force Awakens have the same segues to the next scene that the other movies had, based on old action movies? I don't think it did, but I may be remembering wrong.

[Joe]

3 hours ago, ulkis said:

I didn't realize this - did Force Awakens have the same segues to the next scene that the other movies had, based on old action movies? I don't think it did, but I may be remembering wrong.

You mean those wipes from one scene to another? Yeah, neither Abrams or Edwards used the Lucas style that I could see.

[ulkis]

1 minute ago, Joe said:

You mean those wipes from one scene to another? Yeah, neither Abrams or Edwards used the Lucas style that I could see.

Yes, that's what I meant. Too bad, because I thought it was a nice detail.

[Danny Franks]

On 16/01/2017 at 7:07 PM, VCRTracking said:

I want him to at least be as snarky and entertaining as his parents were albeit in an evil way. You see the first Star Wars and how fun both Han and Leia are individually and with each other, making off-the-cuff wisecracks Han: "What kept you?" Leia: "We ran into some old friends!". It's like on The Golden Girls whenever one of their kids visits and you think "How could such vivacious, interesting women have such boring children?"

I don't think it's as simple as just inheriting the traits of your parents. Everyone's personality is different, and for some kids, having outgoing, vivacious, snarky parents could actually end up repressing their personality. We've already said that Kylo Ren fits the school shooter stereotype, and I don't think it's a stretch to say that he may have been an introverted, quiet and 'weird' kid. So when you pair that with the way his parents dominate a room, it's not hard to see how resentment could build and build.

He's just a dud. In personality and moral character. It happens. Of course, if they do go in the direction of making Rey a Solo, then they can at least give Han and Leia a child worthy of them. Because Rey has all the qualities of the two of them. Smart, resourceful, tough, loyal, snarky. 

[Mabinogia]

Yeah, Kylo is totally a kid who grew up in the shadow of his awesome parents with no chance in hell of living up to them, so he gave that up and went in the total opposite direction and turned into a tantrum throwing emo brat. I will give him credit, he is excelling at that.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Mabinogia

[Skyline]

On 1/29/2017 at 6:48 AM, Danny Franks said:

I don't think it's as simple as just inheriting the traits of your parents. Everyone's personality is different, and for some kids, having outgoing, vivacious, snarky parents could actually end up repressing their personality. We've already said that Kylo Ren fits the school shooter stereotype, and I don't think it's a stretch to say that he may have been an introverted, quiet and 'weird' kid. So when you pair that with the way his parents dominate a room, it's not hard to see how resentment could build and build.

He's just a dud. In personality and moral character. It happens. Of course, if they do go in the direction of making Rey a Solo, then they can at least give Han and Leia a child worthy of them. Because Rey has all the qualities of the two of them. Smart, resourceful, tough, loyal, snarky. 

Daisy debunked Rey Solo last year. 

Quote

Anyways in an interview with Entertainment Tonight Daisy Ridley, in response to a question of what the hardest secret to keep was replied: "What I found funny is that I was the child. and I'm like people were so presumptuous and like your Han Solo's daughter and I'm like; How do you know? Have you seen the film? Clearly not, because I wasn't. That was a funny one."

link

[VCRTracking]

[Morrigan2575]

So what does everyone make of that internet thing about the titles being connected?

The Force Awakens...The Last Jedi....??

Edited January 30, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[anna0852]

4 hours ago, Skyline said:

Daisy debunked Rey Solo last year. 

link

I'll believe that when the movie is actually released. I'm pretty sure that the studio wants to make Rey's parentage a Thing and they aren't going to let one of the very plausible options be debunked that early and casually. Daisy might have been *told* one thing but we all know now that Mark Hamill was told one thing in the Empire script and got *very* different instructions on the day.

[slf]

On 1/29/2017 at 0:50 AM, ulkis said:

Yes, that's what I meant. Too bad, because I thought it was a nice detail.

They did use it, I watched TFA just a few days ago.

[starri]

Hmmm...

Han suggests to Rey and Finn that Luke may have gone in search of the first Jedi Temple when he disappeared.

It would seem overwhelmingly likely that it would be on Jedha.  

I wonder.

[SnoGirl]

1 hour ago, starri said:

Hmmm...

Han suggests to Rey and Finn that Luke may have gone in search of the first Jedi Temple when he disappeared.

It would seem overwhelmingly likely that it would be on Jedha.  

I wonder.

When I was watching Rogue One, I had that exact same thought. It would be a fun tie-in to Rogue One if they do end up on Jedha. Plus, we would get to see the aftermath of the destruction of the Death Star when it does't detroy a planet.

I don't have any background knowledge when it comes to novels and Star Wars, so I don't know if the location of the Jedi Temple is something that is common knowledge. My only Star Wars knowledge comes from the movies.

[Joe]

4 hours ago, starri said:

Hmmm...

Han suggests to Rey and Finn that Luke may have gone in search of the first Jedi Temple when he disappeared.

It would seem overwhelmingly likely that it would be on Jedha.  

I wonder.

It's one of the contenders. In Legends, it was Tython.

[Silver Raven]

When the title The Last Jedi came out, Lucas people pointed out that "Jedi" can be both plural or single.  Now the foreign language titles are showing that it is plural.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fans-are-freaking-out-because-the-last-jedi-is-plural-on-foreign-language-posters_us_58a73881e4b07602ad544f47?ir=Entertainment&

[Joe]

In depressing news, the next Aftermath book has a look at Jar Jar. Why is this depressing? Because I'm going link to Bryan Young's explanation of why Binks is a hero whose actions brought down the empire he accidentally helped create. (And let's be honest. If it wasn't him, it would have been the senator in the next pod over.)

Here we go, minutes 7 - 12. When I first heard this, I was surprised. But it does make a lot of sense. I'll put it in text if anyone can't listen.

So he deserves better than that fate. Maybe there will be another look at him when his life picks up.

[starri]

I know we all hate Jar Jar, but that's a little too dark.

[VCRTracking]

Daaaaamn. Thanks for that second link! That's a really great and thoughtful explanation by Bryan Young. I never hated Jar Jar. He wasn't my favorite character but I never out and out hated him. I thought the fans hostile reaction was so because being so despite being very clumsy and annoying, the nicest character ever in the movies. Even R2 D2 has his dickish side. I thought it was sad he was another pawn of the Sith and that his good intentions were manipulated by Palpatine.

Edited February 18, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Danny Franks]

I think much of the reaction to Jar Jar was because he was a sorely out-of-place character, aimed at nothing but getting kids to laugh, in a franchise that had a devoted and passionate following of 30-somethings.

He became an easy scapegoat for a movie that had a million other, far more serious, things wrong with it. Having said that, Jar Jar Binks was terrible.

I can't get into all those Star Wars novels at all. Most of them seem to be really badly written. The only one I was tempted to read was by Chuck Wendig, because I knew he was actually an acclaimed author. But then I found out that his schtick is awful present tense narrative, so no need to spend any money there.

[Captain Carrot]

I gave up on the books because the vast majority were fairly horrible. However, I do have to say that the ones written by Zahn and Stackpole are worth reading. (There's probably a few other decent authors, but gave up fairly early on).

[starri]

31 minutes ago, Captain Carrot said:

However, I do have to say that the ones written by Zahn and Stackpole are worth reading

That's kind of a low bar.

[Captain Carrot]

True, but both authors wrote enjoyable stories that expanded the mythology. (Zahn's Admiral Thrawn being one of the few characters to make it into the new canon). It's not a coincidence that both authors have published their own novels.

[VCRTracking]

Disney Unveils First-Look at Han Solo Movie In Cast Photo