S01.E11: St. Lucifer

[Tara Ariano]

Lucifer seeks to better understand a murdered philanthropist by becoming a benefactor to the man's tony Los Angeles charity.

[gwhh]

One of the reason Bad Detective may be eating in every scene.  Is because according to the bible.  If you try to eat or drink anything in Hell.  It turns to dust before it hits your lips! 

[janeta]

Ok, good, i'm glad Lucifer's not totally turning human.

And i knew it was the wife all along. :-)

[storyskip]

Well well well!!

 

That was a very informative episode, particularly the last half.  I actually enjoyed some of the twists and turns in the procedural aspect as well, for the first time!

 

So now we know.  It's Chloe that causes him to be vulnerable.  On the one hand if handled in a ham fisted "she's a spesh-shul snowflake" manner ... cringe.  But if handled right, it could turn out to be interesting.  One thing it might help stave off (at least for a bit ... maybe?) is Chloe and Luci being more than platonic.  I hope so because this episode really did highlight how much fun they are as platonic friends/partners.

 

Chloe had some wonderful straight lines in this episode and just ... I enjoy that part of their dynamic.

 

Amenadiel and Maze ... well, well, well.  I'm interested to see how that plays out.

 

Dan and Luci as 'friends' (hey offering drinks!) was a bit of fun.

 

Maze and Luci, slowly working their way back.  I think that was written/acted spot on.  For my, personally, I could feel that ... how to put it ... 'old married couple' I suppose, core attachment to each other.  Yes, they're in the middle of a serious disagreement but it doesn't completely negate billions of years of knowing one another.

 

Just, all these characters, no matter the pairings I enjoy their different dynamics.  

 

The previews for the next couple of weeks definitely have my attention!

 

ETA:  Also loved the twist about angels being unable to kill mortals.  It was a quick line but I'm pretty sure that's what I heard?

Edited April 12, 2016 by storyskip

[Actionmage]

The swerve on the hit was fun; I, like Lucifer, was not expecting that. Then again, I wasn't expecting the steamy car and wings, at least not just yet.

 

Dr. Linda needs to have some anonymous donations to her bank account, Lucifer. She is dealing with an immortal's existential crisis. She needs golden time cash.

 

As much as Maze working Lucifer and Amenadiel is narratively interesting, I sort of wished Maze had finished off Amenadude's glass of wine and promptly found Trixie and Linda. Maze showing up to Dr. Linda's place with Trixie would have been hilarious. "What? You two are my friends, right? Let's hang out and drink."

 

Dan, I honestly do hope you survive.  Not a fan, but you worked so hard to save a dude you can't stand, your death would only hurt the folks I'm more invested in. No one needs a sad Trixie or a vengeful Chloe. ( Okay, mayyyybe Vengeful!Chloe for an episode, but not for long.) KA doesn't need to be the TV version of Sean Bean.

 

Need more info on why Malcolm no sell'd Lucifer's real face. I get that he's been to hell.  I would still think that face would be disturbing. Unless Amenadiel's true face is equally fearsome.  (I kind of want Manny from Constantine to drop in and harass the brothers. Tease 'em.  Then just poof away. Because Harold Perrineau should be on TV more often.)

 

So excited for the next two episodes, but  I don't want the season to end. That's good, right?

[LittleRed]

Very good episode.  It finally clarifies the nature of Lucifer's vulnerability.  It's proximity to Chloe otherwise he is his usual invulnerable self.

 

And props to Det. Douche for saving Luci's life.

[gwhh]

How STUPID is Bad detective.  Why would anyone even want them to be on there payroll!   He as dumb as a box of rocks!  Not to get some straight to heaven ticket from angle brother!  I guess Angle Brother run a great scam on him!!

 

Is it "really" true that "Angles" cant drink booze?  That reference is also in the movie Dogma!   

 

 

Black lawyer guy.  Really is full of himself.  Thinking Chloe going to throw himself at her when she shows up all dressed up!  There a guy working on the majority of the 7 deadly sins. 

 

Love it when the devil face did not faze Bad Detective.  The look on Luc face was priceless.

 

Does anyone know if Argentina does not "really" have an extradition treaty with the USA??   

Edited April 12, 2016 by gwhh

[mmccpp]

So: what happened to Malcolm?  Elevator all the way down?

[Maherjunkie]

Couldn't he have shot Luci and taken the coin?  Was Luci going to kill Chloe or were they just teasing us?

[jewel21]

I never got the impression he was going to kill Chloe. Lucifer just cut himself in her presence thereby confirming his theory that he is only mortal when he's around her.

[CheshireCat]

Loved this episode! It had so much which I love about Lucifer - his innocence about certain things which make him so much fun, the bad boys, great clothes and no clothes at all... So relieved it's actually Chloe who makes Lucifer vulnerable. I had my suspicions but with TV guys you can never be sure. But it makes things so much more interesting!

 

Lucifer actually tells Maze he needs to test a theory, so I'm not really sure where the idea comes from that he wanted to kill Chloe?

 

One question though - why was Dan not more disturbed about Lucifer having survived? The bullet holes in the shirt were clearly visible and there was not a speck of blood. And yet he just accepted that Lucifer was alive.

[HalcyonDays]

Loved this episode. Maze and Amenadiel having some preternatural/angelic/demonic sexy times! Hell yeah! But I thought that Angel's are not "equipped" to do that. But since Lucifer is clearly well blessed, then I'm messing this up with/thinking about Dogma (like ghww)

 

Really, really loved the Lucifer making the connection that only in Chloe's presence is he vulnerable. Dying to know why. Also loved that his dear brother tried to assassinate him. What I love about the show, is that the Devil - though shallow, self-absorbed, hedonistic and sometimes lacking empathy - is still a better person than the so-called "pure" Angelic individual.

 

Actually liked to see how Det. Douche Dan was actually a good guy too. It's a nice parallel - Dan hates Lucifer, thinks he's a bad person (yes, he's the Devil but Dan doesn't know this) but Luci is still better than most humans. Lucifer dislikes Dan, thinks he's a douche, yet Dan still fights to save Luci's life. I like this parallel.

 

Tom Ellis has a beautiful singing voice. Wow.

 

Luci's face when Malcolm took the coin - whoo boy, am I hoping for an eternity of misery for this person. Do it, Luci, do it!

 

So if Amenadiel is cruising around LA, having sad dinners alone, who's watching the Gates of Hell?

 

Love love love Maze and love love love Dr. Linda. They nailed the casting with these two.

 

When a viewer roots for the Devil - you have to admit, they did the character well...

[Happy Harpy]

My favorite scene was the last one between Chloe and Lucifer. It gave the beginning of an answer when it comes to Lucifer's vulnerability, I'm sure there's more to it than "because she's the female lead". And it finally allowed Chloe to really put her guard down with him. I like their duo more and more.

 

So Malcolm really kept Dan in a dungeon? Or the modern equivalent.

Malcolm is so terrible and incompetent and worm-like that it makes me jittery, moreso since Amenadiel's plans tend to backfire imo. Very often, morons are more dangerous and can make more damage than evil but smart people.

I did feel that the whole outcome of this storyline (the text message, Dan witnessing Lucifer not die) was postponed simply because there was no time in this episode. It made for a funny scene between Lucifer and Dan, though.

 

The exchange about goodness being a toy made me laugh out loud.

 

I like Amenadiel and Maze, they're fun. IIRC, Amenadiel is the only one who never met Trixie and I really want him to.

[Lion]

I know we all correctly guessed that it was a Chloe specific mortality issue, but I really love how it unfolded.  There was a sort of tension to it.  When Malcolm didn't react to the devil's true face, I groaned a bit because if Lucifer bled, we'd still be wondering if he's only mortal when it's those who have been touched by the supernatural.  Then Malcolm left and I was all 'noooooo, we need answers on this!'.  Then Luci was shot and awoke uninjured and for the last 10-15 minutes I kept expecting him to unbutton his shirt and reveal that he'd actually started wearing kevlar or something.  I don't think I believed he was really running that knife deeply into his skin until the very end, when it was shocked to see the blood at Chloe's.  We have an answer, but also still more questions.  Love it!

 

I laughed so hard when Amenadiel's wings, ahem, 'released'.  It was such a brilliantly, amazingly dirty visual to indicate he achieved orgasm.  

Edited April 12, 2016 by Lion

[Kelda Feegle]

So very glad that Lucifer can still make the devilface.

Amen and Maze? should be interesting, isn't Amen close to being a fallen angel now that he has corrupted a human into attempted murder?

Good to know there will be a season 2 :-)

[Sandman87]

You know you've had some good car sex when you have to replace the rear windshield afterward.

 

Angels don't kill people? A bunch of biblical dead folks would beg to differ.

[Lion]

I actually assumed he was lying, though I completely forgot that Lucifer doesn't do the lying thing.  Is angel decency comic book canon? 

[GaT]

I don't see where they're taking this show. OK, so when Lucifer is with Chloe he's human-ish, & when he's not, he's immortal. So what's the plot going to be? Solving the crime of the week? There has to be more than that to keep this show interesting, at some point his naivete about being human is going to wear thin.

[thuganomics85]

So, as some predicted, Lucifer is still mostly immortal, but he's just vulnerable anytime he is near and around Chloe.  Not surprising, but a decent reveal.  Now that he knows this, I wonder how it will effect his relationship with her going forward.

 

Case of the week was predictable, but it was fun watching Lucifer trying to be nice to everyone in order to feel that rush again, that he felt when he didn't sleep with Chloe.  But it was still good after he came back to life, and got to bring back the Devil again at the end.

 

Malcolm really didn't think things through, did he?  Even if Amendial had kept his word, he wasn't going to live forever, so he was still going to go back to Hell at some point.  But now he's got Lucifer's magical coin that will apparently help him escape if he ever dies again.  I'm pretty sure Lucifer is going to want to have that back.

 

Amendial and Maze hook-up.  That was bound to happen.  Not sure what to make of Maze's loyalty.  Was she telling Lucifer the truth or is she playing him?

 

He may be the Dan the Douche a lot of times, but I do respect his ability to get out of sticky situations and still try to help Lucifer, even if he hates him.

[BW Manilowe]

How STUPID is Bad detective. Why would anyone even want them to be on there payroll! He as dumb as a box of rocks! Not to get some straight to heaven ticket from angle brother! I guess Angle Brother run a great scam on him!!

Is it "really" true that "Angles" cant drink booze? That reference is also in the movie Dogma!

Black lawyer guy. Really is full of himself. Thinking Chloe going to throw himself at her when she shows up all dressed up! There a guy working on the majority of the 7 deadly sins.

Love it when the devil face did not faze Bad Detective. The look on Luc face was priceless.

Does anyone know if Argentina does not "really" have an extradition treaty with the USA??

I Googled. The US & Argentina signed an extradition treaty on June 10, 1997; it went into force on June 15, 2000. Per the List of United States Extradition Treaties page in Wikipedia.

[storyskip]

Some more points, now that I slept on it.

 

1) Luci's devil face not working on Malcolm.  My theory is this is because Luci and Amenadiel are starting to 'switch places' and since Lucifer is no longer the "Lord of Hell" it doesn't carry the same weight.   Second theory, since Malcolm had already been down to Hell it was a case of "been there, done that".

 

2) I forgot to mention above.  How adorkable was it when Amenadiel was trying to be all smooth and sophisticated in front of Maze and then tucked his napkin into his shirt front?  Then realized what he'd done and very discreetly tugged it back out like "You didn't see that..."

 

3) I never had the impression he intended to hurt Chloe, not really sure where that's coming from??  He was obviously contemplating things when Maze found him in the bar and he shows Maze that he can slice his hand with the knife and nothing happens.  So he went to Chloe to test the theory, which is that something about her presence/proximity causes him to be vulnerable. Hence why, when he cuts his palm there, we see him bleed.

Edited April 12, 2016 by storyskip

[Gigi43]

I wasn't too sure for at first whether it was the wife, or the lawyer (or a joint effort) so that was good for the case of the week stuff. I was so disappointed too we didn't get to see Malcolm shoot and have nothing happen, then wham, the "bloody hell" and shots from the wife was pretty entertaining.

 

I thought Lucifer/Tom actually trying to imitate Chloe's/Lauren's voice when he was repeating her drunken complaints was hilarious.

 

Chloe asking Lucifer to do his "desire thing" (I enjoyed they had Chloe go try it on her own!) is, like with last episode asking him if he could "do anything" about the fire, seems to be heading in the direction of her at least admitting/accepting that there is something different about him. In the show's second season budget I do hope there's something for an office set, it's just weird Chloe working out of her house all the time, and now it's one thing for the likes of Lucifer and Malcolm to show up, but would a lawyer really show up at a detectives house?? At this point Chloe should have an address off the grid if she's not going to get an office.

 

Maze and Amenadiel... I'm guessing sleeping with him is her plan, not in the sense that now she plans on getting information from him, but, they were previously working on getting Lucifer to hell, so now Maze is working on corrupting Amenadiel to get him to fall, thus freeing Lucifer and getting Lucifer to forgive her. It seems they went in another direction with the music choices all together this episode. "It's Not Unusual" will always be associated with Carton Banks for me, but, I thought that was a a funny choice.  Obviously Lucifer was joking when he told Chloe they made "Rosemary's Baby" but we still don't know if Lucifer can have kids, now, I hope we don't have to worry about Maze and Amenadiel having some kind of spawn!  Shallow Note: DB Woodside has such an amazing smile.

 

Dan really wasn't douchey this episode! I really want Lucifer and Dan to have to work on something together at some point and I don't want it to be "saving Chloe from someone/Malcolm", maybe just tracking down an off the rails Malcolm? Dan can actually put two and two together enough to at least think maybe Lucifer can give insight into Malcolm's Hell "delusion" since Lucifer's mentioned being thrown out of heaven and Dan knows he was 'missing wings' at one point, if they still don't want Dan to yet accept everything, he can at least work off that, and so Dan is looking for him for one reason, could even be revenge for what Malcolm just did to Dan, and Lucifer goes along perhaps to get his coin back or something?

 

What I'm loving is they're letting Lucifer put stuff together quickly. His realization about being hurt around Chloe reminded me of how he put together Amenadiel/Maze's plan's and doesn't sit around wondering if he's right/how he should act on it, he just goes and deals. Especially in his conversation with Maze this week/figuring out the Chloe connection, I got House vibe as he put it together then left, which is good company in my book.  Lucifer's greatest strength in the comics is suppose to be his smarts, right?

[Maherjunkie]

 

Lucifer actually tells Maze he needs to test a theory, so I'm not really sure where the idea comes from that he wanted to kill Chloe?

I just saw something sharp behind his back and thought that might be the case.  I came in midway if there is greater context.

[Bruinsfan]

So: what happened to Malcolm?  Elevator all the way down?

That's what I was thinking. Like ding! and the elevator doors open to a snarling Cerberus.

 

1) Luci's devil face not working on Malcolm.  My theory is this is because Luci and Amenadiel are starting to 'switch places' and since Lucifer is no longer the "Lord of Hell" it doesn't carry the same weight.   Second theory, since Malcolm had already been down to Hell it was a case of "been there, done that".

I hope your theory is right, and that it's Lucifer's resolve to do good deeds that's hampering his fearsomeness. It doesn't make sense that once damned souls have been in Hell a (relatively) brief time they'd be all "Pfft! Whatever" when faced by its lord and master in a state of anger.

 

I'd like to know what the hell the Widow Dunlear's plan was at the end. What did she think she'd accomplish by killing Lucifer? Nevermind giving a false story to a whole roomful of witnesses that would still imply she was the last person to see him before his supposedly dead body was discovered. I'm thinking killing off the people investigating your husband's murder case when you're the suspect with the most ready access to them is a really ineffective way to dodge suspicion.

[CheshireCat]

thuganomics85, on 12 Apr 2016 - 03:22 AM, said:

Malcolm really didn't think things through, did he?  Even if Amendial had kept his word, he wasn't going to live forever, so he was still going to go back to Hell at some point.  But now he's got Lucifer's magical coin that will apparently help him escape if he ever dies again.  I'm pretty sure Lucifer is going to want to have that back.

 

Why? Since he doesn't plan on ever going back to Hell and now that he knows he's still immortal when he's not around Chloe, he can pretty much avoid dying.

 

As for Maze - I'm not sure about her plan either. Maybe she wants to get Amenadiel to Hell and then go with him since she doesn't like being on earth? She'd kill two birds with one stone - she'd get Lucifer revenge/get someone back into Hell and she would probably be back in Lucifer's good graces.

 

And I think Malcolm wasn't afraid because he'd alreadyben to Hell/been touched by divinity.

[Lion]

 

 

Malcolm really didn't think things through, did he?  Even if Amendial had kept his word, he wasn't going to live forever, so he was still going to go back to Hell at some point.  But now he's got Lucifer's magical coin that will apparently help him escape if he ever dies again.  I'm pretty sure Lucifer is going to want to have that back.

I agree, he probably didn't think it through.  But wasn't Lucifer sort of wrong one whether or not Malcolm would really return to Hell?  He doesn't really include the possibility that Malcolm could then join any one of the churches where all he has to do is ask for forgiveness and POOF all the bad things he's done is simply wiped clean and heaven awaits.  

[storyskip]

I agree, he probably didn't think it through.  But wasn't Lucifer sort of wrong one whether or not Malcolm would really return to Hell?  He doesn't really include the possibility that Malcolm could then join any one of the churches where all he has to do is ask for forgiveness and POOF all the bad things he's done is simply wiped clean and heaven awaits.  

Lucifer actually kind of addressed the idea of 'man's religion' vs 'divine reality' particularly in "Priest Walks into a Bar"

 

It was a quick quip but when in the confessional with the MILF he sarcastically said something to the effect of "isn't that what your religion says?" when talking about confession/wiping the slate clean.

 

In fact a lot of his 'issue' with Father Frank in beginning was the perceived hypocrisy of the Church, saying one thing and doing another.  It wasn't until Lucifer recognized that Frank truly followed the rules and believed in his faith, that he opened up to being friends.

 

So in this instance, Lucifer knows that Malcolm can pay all the lip service he wants.  Unless Malcolm truly changed (which given how Malcolm snatched the coin, good guess that's not on his agenda) he could join all the churches he wants, say all the right words but unless it's actually in his heart, he's heading down south.

[Primetimer]

Ol' Scratch gets a temporary hankering to do good, but he doesn't let it cramp his style. Instead, he uses his philanthropic urges as an excuse to add more names to the 'naughty' list for punishment.

Read the story

[tennisgurl]

I would love this for nothing else other than the Amendial and Maze stuff. I know she probably just got with him to get back in Lucifers good graces, and he is trying to kill her boss/friend, but...I think I ship it. Just a tad. What can I say, the actors have chemistry. 

 

So what is the deal with Chloe being the vulnerable component to Lucifer? Does she have devine heritage or something? Is she magic? Special some how? 

 

Dr. Linda needs a raise. She is becoming the shrink of choice to the immortal scorges of hell, that has got to be at least worth a few good references. 

[jewel21]

I laughed so hard when Amenadiel's wings, ahem, 'released'.  It was such a brilliantly, amazingly dirty visual to indicate he achieved orgasm.  

My cockatiel did something similar the other day after "playing" with one of his toys. Amendude's scene reminded me of that and cracked me up.

[jewel21]

I just saw something sharp behind his back and thought that might be the case.  I came in midway if there is greater context.

He had a knife behind his back to test out his theory that he was only mortal around Chloe. He cut his palm and there was blood confirming his suspicions.

 

In an earlier scene, he was at Lux and cut his palm in front of Maze and he didn't bleed.

[dargosmydaddy]

 

So what is the deal with Chloe being the vulnerable component to Lucifer? Does she have devine heritage or something? Is she magic? Special some how?

 

It didn't develop immediately, though, right? Didn't he get shot in the pilot after she got shot, and he was fine? So either it has something to do with him keeping her from dying later in that scene, or it's the development of their partnership.

 

Unless I'm  not remembering the pilot correctly...

[sinkwriter]

 

I thought Lucifer/Tom actually trying to imitate Chloe's/Lauren's voice when he was repeating her drunken complaints was hilarious.

 

I laughed so hard at that, probably more than necessary. In fact, I had to rewind and listen to him do it again, it was so funny. "It's too hooooooooot in this 5-star hell hole!" LOL. The way he said it was just priceless. Major kudos to Tom.

 

So either it has something to do with him keeping her from dying later in that scene, or it's the development of their partnership.

 

I'm thinking the "mortality sitch" has developed as the intimacy of their relationship has developed.

 

Though it makes me wonder if it's just intimacy with her, or with anyone. For example, Amenadiel made him bleed when they fought on the beach after Lucifer burned his wings, didn't he? His mouth was bleeding and later he had a really nasty black eye. And Lucifer has also developed an unusual relationship with Dr. Linda, not via sex with her (which wasn't really intimacy for him) but because of the ways they've been talking about his personal feelings. I wonder if he'd be mortal around her as well. 

Edited April 13, 2016 by sinkwriter

[storyskip]

I laughed so hard at that, probably more than necessary. In fact, I had to rewind and listen to him do it again, it was so funny. "I's too hooooooooot in this 5-star hell hole!" LOL. The way he said it was just priceless. Major kudos to Tom.

 

For example, Amenadiel made him bleed when they fought on the beach after Lucifer burned his wings, didn't he? His mouth was bleeding and later he had a really nasty black eye. 

 

 

Tom's voice impersonations are a riot when he does them!  That and the fact that I could imagine Chloe actually saying those words as she stripped down, complete with Lucifer's bemused reaction to it all, had me laughing.

 

I think we're best served to put angel on angel violence in it's own category.  Back at the original Fall, Amenadiel/Michael and Gabriel laid the all mighty smack down on Lucifer, so it stands to reason that angels have been giving each other 'bloody noses' since the beginning.

 

It's 'mortal' threats (guns, knives, mortal violence) that Lucifer (and I'm assuming Amenadiel) should be immune too.  The fact that being around Chloe renders him vulnerable to these sorts of threats is the big question.

[Italian Ice]

I would love this for nothing else other than the Amendial and Maze stuff. I know she probably just got with him to get back in Lucifers good graces, and he is trying to kill her boss/friend, but...I think I ship it. Just a tad. What can I say, the actors have chemistry. 

 

So what is the deal with Chloe being the vulnerable component to Lucifer? Does she have devine heritage or something? Is she magic? Special some how? 

 

Dr. Linda needs a raise. She is becoming the shrink of choice to the immortal scorges of hell, that has got to be at least worth a few good references. 

 

He loves her, whether or not he even realizes it. The opposite of evil is love. 

Edited April 13, 2016 by Italian Ice

[LittleRed]

I agree with the theory that his physical vulnerability when in her proximity is a reflection of his emotional vulnerability to her.  This would also explain his invulnerability in the pilot when Jimmy starts shooting up the recording studio.  He hadn't really invested too much in her at that point.  But now, as he continues to get to know her and like her more and more, he's developing a "human" connection with her.

[Bruinsfan]

Though it makes me wonder if it's just intimacy with her, or with anyone. For example, Amenadiel made him bleed when they fought on the beach after Lucifer burned his wings, didn't he? His mouth was bleeding and later he had a really nasty black eye. And Lucifer has also developed an unusual relationship with Dr. Linda, not via sex with her (which wasn't really intimacy for him) but because of the ways they've been talking about his personal feelings. I wonder if he'd be mortal around her as well. 

He put his fist through her wall without so much as a skinned knuckle, so I assume not.

[placate]

I Googled. The US & Argentina signed an extradition treaty on June 10, 1997; it went into force on June 15, 2000. Per the List of United States Extradition Treaties page in Wikipedia.

The US was not the extracting party in these crimes.  It was the new nation of Israel trying to try war criminals.  Many nazi officers fled to South America because within Operation Paperclip, many Nazi doctors and scientists were allowed to relocate to the US and other countries.  SS officers that fled prosecution migrated to South America so they could escape prosecution, even still they were sought out by nazi hunters and brought to trial.

[Zipper]

Parts of this episode I liked a lot.  One thing rang false for me, and I can't tell if it's my poor memory about past episodes or something else.

 

Luci mocking Chloe for her drunkipants strip:  spot on and hilarious

Malcolm being a terrible Bad Guy:  good (it means his role in this plot should be done soon, so we can get to the Luci/Amenadude fallout)

Splitting Luci and Chloe up for the CotW:  shows her being an actual cop instead of relying on his "voodoo" (poor form for her to pout about his "not having her back"-- it's her JOB, it's mostly a hobby for him-- and an outlet for his punishment jones)

Luci serenading the Donor Ladies Luncheon:  so fun

Luci not dying when shot by Widow/Killer:  awesome (I like my supernaturals powerful)

Maze w/ Amenadude:  awesome (both in terms of this episode's scenes and how this could bring angel politics up front a bit more)

Luci's revelation about the cause of his vulnerability = good

 

I think Lauren German is doing a pretty good job with this role (for the love of Luci, make-up people, ease up on her daytime eyebrows). When Chloe lightened up a bit in 'Manly Whatnots,' I bought into her character a little more, and went back to watch the pilot-- she  had a pretty good vibe going there as well (now that I understand the premise and framing a little better). 

 

The wrong note from last night for me was her "vulnerability" statement to Luci. Sure, she showed up at Luci's place drunk for Dan-dumped-me sexual healing, but other than that-- I don't see much difference between her vulnerability with Dan or Trixie, and Luci.  She resents his involvement in her cases for more than the first 2-3 episodes (she calls him a partner around Ep. 5); repeatedly acts exasperated with him and his antics during investigations; kicks him out of her house several times; is irritated that he accepted an invite to family dinner with her mom, etc.  Yes, there are a few moments where they seem to connect on a deeper level-- when she woke from her bullet injuries in the hospital; when she saw his wing scars (great moment); when he covers for her after she shot him, and she seems genuinely appreciative (but later pissy that those events lead to his quasi-official status with the police department); when she shows up at Lux after the Wings Thing to express friendship and support (not necessarily vulnerability, but maybe).  So where is her developing vulnerability with regard to him?

 

If they have been trying to "show not tell" then I think the actor's choices aren't selling this for me.  Maybe it's just that Luci has undergone a more radical change, so I'm not seeing the Chloe vulnerability as something new.  Am I missing something?  I hope so, because if this is going to be some kind of parallel journey for them, I would like to buy in on her half of that. 

Edited April 13, 2016 by Zipper

[heisenberg]

Long live to Lucifer!

 

My friend asked me how was this serie.  Back in the days we watched Monk with Tony Shalhoub together...  Well that's it. 

 

Same sens of humour, the story and characters are different but not the format.

 

I was craving since Monk left for that kind of tv-show and now Lucifer fills it up.

 

I wonder if Chloe and Lucifer could have a baby in the future...

Edited April 13, 2016 by heisenberg

[Sonja]

Loved this episode. Maze and Amenadiel having some preternatural/angelic/demonic sexy times! Hell yeah! But I thought that Angel's are not "equipped" to do that. But since Lucifer is clearly well blessed, then I'm messing this up with/thinking about Dogma (like ghww)

I was surprised about that because of something that happened in an earlier episode when Maze and Amenadude fought at Lux. I can't remember what it was exactly she said, but she followed it up with a pointed downwards-look. On the other hand, technically Lucifer shouldn't have been 'equipped' either if the angels in this universe were Dogma-Metadrons.

I like Amenadiel and Maze, they're fun. IIRC, Amenadiel is the only one who never met Trixie and I really want him to.

As funny and charming as he can be, Amenadude already showed that he would do a lot to get out of hell-duty. He's not a good 'person', so I really don't want him to meet Trixie. He seems to regard humans as dispensible after all.

 

2) I forgot to mention above.  How adorkable was it when Amenadiel was trying to be all smooth and sophisticated in front of Maze and then tucked his napkin into his shirt front?  Then realized what he'd done and very discreetly tugged it back out like "You didn't see that..."

That was hilarious.

 

Obviously Lucifer was joking when he told Chloe they made "Rosemary's Baby" but we still don't know if Lucifer can have kids, now, I hope we don't have to worry about Maze and Amenadiel having some kind of spawn! 

Lines like that one are what makes this show so much fun.

[dragonsbite]

It didn't develop immediately, though, right? Didn't he get shot in the pilot after she got shot, and he was fine? So either it has something to do with him keeping her from dying later in that scene, or it's the development of their partnership.

 

Unless I'm  not remembering the pilot correctly...

 

My guess is that Lucifer's vulnerability around Chloe has nothing to do with her "specialness." Rather, it's his emotional vulnerability to her. This episode made that very clear. She states that she's vulnerable to him. And he makes that same realization. It's not a physical vulnerability, it's mental. If he could put a mental/emotional wall between them, then he probably wouldn't get shot or burned or cut.

[CoyoteBlue]

So I wonder how this vulnerability will play out. It seems that Lucifer might be pushing her away either to keep from being mortally vulnerable OR to keep Amenadiel from realizing the Chloe-mortality connection. Is it just Chloe (among mortals) that can hurt him, or is it her presence? If so, will he be able to shield her from bullets in the future or not? He got burned rescuing her from fire (which, really, is total bullshit - fire is his element, ffs!) - was it because he was near her? Touching her? If it's a psychosomatic thing, can he drop the physical vulnerability around her when she's at risk to protect the emotional vulnerability?

 

I really like how they seem to keep everything rolling. Like, there's not some giant secret that they spend all season talking around without advancing, but likewise there's not new things popping up and getting completely resolved every episode. Everything seems to have time to breathe and develop without stagnating.

[CheshireCat]

I'm looking forward to seeing how it'll all pan out with Amenadiel. Malcolm didn't shoot Lucifer, but even if he had, Lucifer wouldn't have been dead. Malcolm can't know that, of course, but neither can Amenadiel, and that means that there are so many questions that need to be answered! Especially since we also learned that Amenadiel can't punish Malcolm, so now Amenadiel has a brother who's still alive and kicking and for the most part immortal and unwilling to return to Hell and he has a hired killer he can't punish. Guess his plan was an epic fail. (Maybe it's best angels don't scheme to kill others, seems like they suck at it ;-) )

 

And that's definitely an interesting angle, that the vulnerability is due to emotions/menality rather than a physical thing. That would be cool! I'd still prefer if Lucifer were completely immortal (since he spends the majority of his time with Chloe, he kind of still is mortal for the majority of the show and I think it's more fun if he weren't because most everyone else on every other show already is mortal, too) but if he can find a way to circumvent it then that would be okay, too.

[Zipper]

 Is it just Chloe (among mortals) that can hurt him, or is it her presence?

 

 

I think it must be her presence-- he cut himself while standing in her house, she didn't wield the knife.  Totally agree with the pacing of the show, it's been a good first season. 

[Sonja]

I'm looking forward to seeing how it'll all pan out with Amenadiel. Malcolm didn't shoot Lucifer, but even if he had, Lucifer wouldn't have been dead. Malcolm can't know that, of course, but neither can Amenadiel, and that means that there are so many questions that need to be answered! Especially since we also learned that Amenadiel can't punish Malcolm, so now Amenadiel has a brother who's still alive and kicking and for the most part immortal and unwilling to return to Hell and he has a hired killer he can't punish. Guess his plan was an epic fail. (Maybe it's best angels don't scheme to kill others, seems like they suck at it ;-) )

They could explore the concept of regret (Lucifer) and culpability (Amenadude) via Lucifer killing Malcolm. Sorry, wishful thinking...

 

I think it must be her presence-- he cut himself while standing in her house, she didn't wield the knife.  Totally agree with the pacing of the show, it's been a good first season. 

I agree. So how do you think they are going to handle this new knowledge of Lucifer's? 'Detective, could you please leave the premises so I can talk to this armed gentleman without getting killed'?

[Happy Harpy]

As funny and charming as he can be, Amenadude already showed that he would do a lot to get out of hell-duty. He's not a good 'person', so I really don't want him to meet Trixie. He seems to regard humans as dispensible after all.

I agree about Amenadiel, but Trixie isn't human. She's the avatar of cuteness and the kryptonite of every supernatural being :D

[storyskip]

Something I've learned to pay attention to in this show is language and there is a little something niggling at me.

 

SPECULATION ONLY!!!

 

When Lucifer tells Malcolm that he was duped and that Amenadiel couldn't kill him (or keep the other promises he made) I just can't help thinking ...

 

Luci says "angels aren't allowed to take a mortal life; Dad's rules".

 

So does that mean angels physically can't kill a mortal?  Like if they tried to stab a mortal the blade would bounce off?  OR does he mean that it's against the rules and to "break" that rule and kill a mortal would result in the angel falling?

 

I'm wondering if it's the latter and when Amenadiel learns that Malcolm failed to kill Lucifer, that in his anger he kills Malcolm and that is the last act he has to take in order to officially "Fall".

[Sonja]

Something I've learned to pay attention to in this show is language and there is a little something niggling at me.

 

SPECULATION ONLY!!!

 

When Lucifer tells Malcolm that he was duped and that Amenadiel couldn't kill him (or keep the other promises he made) I just can't help thinking ...

 

Luci says "angels aren't allowed to take a mortal life; Dad's rules".

 

So does that mean angels physically can't kill a mortal?  Like if they tried to stab a mortal the blade would bounce off?  OR does he mean that it's against the rules and to "break" that rule and kill a mortal would result in the angel falling?

 

I'm wondering if it's the latter and when Amenadiel learns that Malcolm failed to kill Lucifer, that in his anger he kills Malcolm and that is the last act he has to take in order to officially "Fall".

I had an inkling towards Amenadiel not being able to contain himself one of these days as well. I definitely think they could physically kill humans, especially if he said 'allowed' not 'unable' or 'can't'.

 

That line actually raised another question for me: is Lucifer technically still an angel and therefore not allowed to kill humans either or did becoming the devil void that clause? And what would his punishment be considering he considers his pre-vacation job the worst already? He could be forced to wear shorts and brightly patterned t-shirts for eternity, but other than that...

[Zipper]

I agree. So how do you think they are going to handle this new knowledge of Lucifer's? 'Detective, could you please leave the premises so I can talk to this armed gentleman without getting killed'?

 

I don't have any sense of how, but it sure provides some interesting possibilities.  If they decide Chloe will not be acknowledging he's The Devil, it's going to be hard-- all of the protection has to be on Lucifer (and maybe Maze-- could be a cool way to get her in on the team more often).  With Chloe's head in the sand, he could explore the boundaries of her influence over his vulnerability outside of her knowledge.  If they decide Chloe will accept that he is Satan on Vacation, that's a much bigger realm of options.  Then they work together to maximize his effectiveness, while trying to provide some degree of safety.  Or maybe she accepts he's Ol' Scratch and concludes:  cops all over the world take their risks with death every day, now you will too.  That would deprive us of a lot of fun, but it might be the most Chloe-like response.

 

OR...maybe this is the path out of the procedural-- less crime related, more angel business.  I think iZombie set itself up with the recent season finale to move away from the crime procedural as primary plot vehicle (to it's benefit), and I would like Lucifer to get that chance at some point.