S09.E20: The Big Bear Precipitation

[needschocolate]

All these posts about heartbeats not being heard makes me realize how lucky I have been.  My sympathies to all of you, no one should have to deal with that sort of pain.  

 

As for the money talk - If a cook and a waitress could live in a two bedroom apartment in Manhattan, across the hall from a rarely working actor and his businessman (what did Chandler Bing do?) roommate in their two bedroom apartment, not far away from an archaeologist living by himself (with child support payments and a pet monkey), and there wasn''t constant talk of how they would pay their rent that month, then I suppose we can go the opposite direction and have Caltech scientists complain about how little they make.  TV finances rarely make sense.  

[theatremouse]

That's an unfair comparison because it was established that the cook+waitress were in rent-controlled-grandma's apartment.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

If that's the case then yeah $6,000 in savings is not a lot of money (it's actually a little sad IMO that a couple earning well in excess of $200,000 a year would think that it was a significant amount in savings).

We know that Leonard drops a lot of money on comic books and toys, and we don't know how much of Penny's great new salary she's actually taking home. I'm sure the "guy" she mentioned is a rep for a financial services company and would have talked her into stashing away as much as possible into a 403B, Roth IRA, and any other savings programs they offered. So, from Leonard's POV, it's a lot of savings, and from Penny's POV they've got savings (under her name), and that 6K's a lot of money they could be spending.

[CherryAmes]

TV finances rarely make sense.

 

True.  But at least on Friends when they had an early episode that talked about how some of the friends had money (Chander, Ross and Monica)  and some didn't (Rachel, Joey and Phoebe) it actually made sense in terms of what their jobs were at that time. Anyway I know it's just  a TV show and there are probably lots of inconsistencies that are worse but for me it's not so much that the finances are nutty really it's the almost contemptuous way the writers treat what by the standards of most of their viewers is a damn good salary!

Edited April 11, 2016 by CherryAmes

[yb125]

t really depends how much they teach. I know professors who don't teach and have research positions, and they really have to spend a lot  of time writing  grant  applications; it's the money they raise that pays their salaries.  We haven't seen Leonard or Sheldon do much of that, but  they did do some in early seasons. So they could well have financial ups and downs  based on who's funding what projects and how substantially.

 

 

 

The guys aren't professors. They are full time researchers and at Caltech more funding means more money to "play with" but their salaries are separate from that and very generous for the industry. Also why does Leonard still have student loan debt, his PhD would have been filly funded, the only thing that would make sense if it was from undergrad ( I can see his mom refusing to help pay for school) 

[Hecate7]

All these posts about heartbeats not being heard makes me realize how lucky I have been.  My sympathies to all of you, no one should have to deal with that sort of pain.  

 

As for the money talk - If a cook and a waitress could live in a two bedroom apartment in Manhattan, across the hall from a rarely working actor and his businessman (what did Chandler Bing do?) roommate in their two bedroom apartment, not far away from an archaeologist living by himself (with child support payments and a pet monkey), and there wasn''t constant talk of how they would pay their rent that month, then I suppose we can go the opposite direction and have Caltech scientists complain about how little they make.  TV finances rarely make sense.  

 

 

But cook/waittress were in grandma's rent-controlled apartment, and Chandler was a computer programmer at a time when that was still one of the most lucrative things a human being could do. Joey worked, just not always as an actor at first, and then he got that job on a soap and became a rather successful actor.

 

And these Caltech scientists don't appear to have tenure, so they may not be making that much. Nowadays 70% of professors are adjuncts.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Hecate7

[yb125]

 

And these Caltech scientists don't appear to have tenure, so they may not be making that much. Nowadays 70% of professors are adjuncts.

They are not they are not adjuncts as they are not professors. Sheldon was specifically described as a "Senior Theoretical Physicis" ,  they are research scientists, different position. If they were full tenured professors they would be on track to make upwards of 200K instead of the 100k they would be pulling down now. 

[vibeology]

Every time the show brings up money they just make a mess of it. Penny is suddenly the big earner and has savings but is also crazy in debt and working to pay it off. Leonard has had the same job for ten years but makes so little that $6000 seems like savings to him. It's just crazy. Howard, who has been to space, is so worried about money that he's gone into business with Leonard and Sheldon, who both don't need the money to the point that they were comfortable making the decision to split their own shares without any hesitation. Sheldon has so much money he doesn't cash his paychecks even though he must know that checks can stale date.

 

Money is totally meaningless on this show. It's whatever the writers need it to be to create a plot for the week. And I use the word plot loosely.

[SmithW6079]

Did they say how long Leonard had the account? If it's only been since their marriage, that's just a few months, isn't it? Six thousand dollars is respectable for a few months.

[CherryAmes]

No they said it was a few years.  I am thinking possibly since he and Penny got engaged when, at least theoretically, she'd have more say in where his money goes (although that said it's not like Leonard wasn't already majorly subsidizing Penny) and it is odd that his secret account coincided with her getting a job where she makes more money than he does.  Are the writers telling us that Leonard was happy to share his money with Penny until she didn't need it anymore and then he started hiding it?

[Homily]

Are the writers telling us that Leonard was happy to share his money with Penny until she didn't need it anymore and then he started hiding it?

 

This is a Chuck Lorre show - they are more likely telling us that Leonard is so emasculated by a strong woman that if he doesn't hide some money he will give it all to Penny. 

[vibeology]

Or that the writers just picked dates out of the air not caring at all about the history of the characters because they never care about continuity and next time Leonard and Penny need to have a discussion about money, they'll be dealing with a whole new circumstance that is only barely related to what we saw in this episode.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

They are not they are not adjuncts as they are not professors. Sheldon was specifically described as a "Senior Theoretical Physicis" ,  they are research scientists, different position.

Sheldon became a professor as a condition of being able to choose what he wanted to study (when he decided he didn't want to study string theory any more).

 

 

 

Are the writers telling us that Leonard was happy to share his money with Penny until she didn't need it anymore and then he started hiding it?

Or, was it until she told him he didn't need to do everything she wanted and pay for everything in order to get sex? He wouldn't have wanted to make a big, sudden, change in his spending on her because of what that would say, but Penny wouldn't have noticed him having a few bucks less in his wallet now and then after he had secretly stashed a little away,

[Ina123]

I've always been told the rule of thumb is to have 6 months salary saved at any given time. It would take time to build up but it's a good rule.

[ari333]

The posters here are so compassionate and kind. It's amazing and wonderful

That is all.

[Hecate7]

They are not they are not adjuncts as they are not professors. Sheldon was specifically described as a "Senior Theoretical Physicis" ,  they are research scientists, different position. If they were full tenured professors they would be on track to make upwards of 200K instead of the 100k they would be pulling down now. 

 

Leonard, Sheldon, and Howard have all spoken before of having classes to teach. Sheldon is the only one who was there as a purely research scientist. One season Sheldon was given an ultimatum: remain in his department as the draw he'd always been, or start teaching classes. Howard enrolled in Sheldon's class. But Leonard, Raj, and I think even Howard have mentioned teaching before. Only Leonard has actual value to the university without having to teach. Didn't they all have to go in and reapply for their own jobs once, as adjuncts have to do each year?

That's probably what gave me that impression.

I've always been told the rule of thumb is to have 6 months salary saved at any given time. It would take time to build up but it's a good rule.

 

 

Great rule. It'd take years to do, following the rule of putting 10% of your paycheck away each time, which nobody ever does because most people don't earn enough to have 10% left over. Penny does, though, and she should.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Hecate7

[SmithW6079]

Raj has always been an asshole, but this episode cemented his move into creepy stalker status. Just deport his ass already.

[ari333]

I like Raj. I wish they didnt' write him as creepy.

[CherryAmes]

I think sometimes they confuse Raj with Stuart.   It's like every episode needs to have a guy behaving very inappropriately.

[Driad]

 

It's like every episode needs to have a guy behaving very inappropriately.

 

Remember BBT comes from the reeking 2.5Men factory.   I have never really "put my weight down" with BBT, because every time they do something I really like, they follow it with something disgusting.

 

With less than 20 minutes per episode, it is high time they got rid of the B plots and any characters they can't write well.  That would mean Raj and Stuart would make only rare small appearances when needed.  

 

In a way I would regret losing Raj and Stuart, because I don't like having all the characters paired up, but as the show is now, they nerve no positive function.

[One Tough Cookie]

Forget the money controversy.  I want an answer to the REAL question:  Did Sheldon and Amy share a bedroom?

 

I bet she packed her sexy flannel number just in case {and hopefully Sheldon packed another disclaimer along with condoms}.

Edited April 13, 2016 by One More Time

[DrSpaceman73]

I wouldn't get too caught up in the specifics about how much money any of them should make, the choice of $6000 as the amount, the actual finances of any of them or the specific details about what their jobs at the university.

As someone mentioned, it's a Chuck Lorre show. The details I doubt the writers care about or pay attention to.

Oh and also, Penny doesn't really HAVE TO FLIRT to sell her drugs. She likely reverts to this because its what she knows and what she is good at doing. As a male physician though, I can honestly say, I am not writing a prescription because one rep is sexier or more flirtatious than another. And most reps, or in fact very few reps, don't really act that way.

Again though, a Chuck Lorre show, so the cliche for laughs is used.

Edited April 13, 2016 by DrSpaceman73

[Hecate7]

I wouldn't get too caught up in the specifics about how much money any of them should make, the choice of $6000 as the amount, the actual finances of any of them or the specific details about what their jobs at the university.

As someone mentioned, it's a Chuck Lorre show. The details I doubt the writers care about or pay attention to.

Oh and also, Penny doesn't really HAVE TO FLIRT to sell her drugs. She likely reverts to this because its what she knows and what she is good at doing. As a male physician though, I can honestly say, I am not writing a prescription because one rep is sexier or more flirtatious than another. And most reps, or in fact very few reps, don't really act that way.

Again though, a Chuck Lorre show, so the cliche for laughs is used.

 

 

Are you absolutely sure that you don't buy from one rep over another because of factors you're unaware of? Like, more likely to buy from a pretty woman than an ugly one? To buy from a man than a woman? To buy from a well-dressed attractive young woman, over an overweight, dowdy older woman? I'm not sure I can make that claim myself and I'm a woman. Seriously, I'd do Penny's job myself if I thought you didn't have to be beautiful and young to do it.

 

Studies have shown that men are more likely to make an impulse purchase while looking at a pretty girl's face, whether that's in person or online, so Penny might have noticed that she makes sales more when she does flirt.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Hecate7

[amaranta]

In a way I would regret losing Raj and Stuart

 

What have they done to Raj?  I really liked the character in the early seasons. The guy who was King of the Rabbits, who told Howard he looked like he'd stepped out of Toy Story, and had a desk war with Sheldon.

 

Just because they dumped the selective mutism (yay!) did they have to turn him into such an unaware jerk (boo)?  In this episode it was just ridiculous.  No one is that out of touch with reality, that socially blind.

 

I miss my staring st the desert sky rabbit guy.

 

Stewart I could go either way on.  Sometimes he has good moments and then - whiplash! - they have him be a watch-you-while-you-sleep stalker.  I no longer think of Stewart as a character.  He's just a tool to be used by the writer's now and then,  for what usually turns out to be a lame joke.

[CherryAmes]

Raj could be such an interesting character.  I actually liked that they didn't make him quite as sweet and innocent as he sometimes seemed to be.  His love affair with his phone was probably the highlight though of quirky Raj.  After that it's been all downhill.

[Catlyn]

 

We know that Leonard drops a lot of money on comic books and toys, and we don't know how much of Penny's great new salary she's actually taking home. I'm sure the "guy" she mentioned is a rep for a financial services company and would have talked her into stashing away as much as possible into a 403B, Roth IRA, and any other savings programs they offered. So, from Leonard's POV, it's a lot of savings, and from Penny's POV they've got savings (under her name), and that 6K's a lot of money they could be spending.

This is what I was thinking. At my work, we have a financial rep who works with us for our IRA's. They are on call and we can schedule one on ones with them. Penny may have one at her job and is matching her talk with what she hears others say about their financial planners.  Penny does spend, there was even one scene in one of the early seasons where one credit card got cancelled the same time she received another one. As an actress, she may have racked up debt with classes, headshots, etc. Promising them to pay later and now later has caught up with her. She may now be trying to act responsible and pay all her back debts from credit cards to loans. Also, while her salary sounds big, she may have a lot taken out in benefits which can take a huge chunk out of your weekly/bi-weekly check.  You can say you make good money, but if you are paying for benefits, Iras, loans, etc. you may not be bringing home good money.

[anna0852]

For all that they've been inconstant about Penny's financials, I'm glad to see that they are at least landing on 'responsible'. As in she's referring to investments and savings, there is effort to pay off her bills and accepting that she's going to have to stay in this job for awhile to get caught up from all those years of acting.

 

As far as her comment about Leonard's savings account I didn't necessarily take that as 'I could have spent that money.' What if she meant 'I could have invested that money well'?

[MissLucas]

As far as her comment about Leonard's savings account I didn't necessarily take that as 'I could have spent that money.' What if she meant 'I could have invested that money well'?

But that was hardly what she meant. This is how the dialogue went down:

 

'My God, Leonard, do you know what I could do with that kind of money?' (I think we wouldn't have this discussion if the line was: 'My God, Leonard, do you know we could do with that money?)

'No, I do, and that's why I hid it.' (This is also problematic - apparently Leonard still isn't trusting her.)

'What good is it if you don't use it?' (Yeah, she could have meant investing it but I doubt it - the issue was then dropped.)

 

In short: those two should have a serious talk about their finances. We don't have to see it because this is a sitcom. But spare us more forced conflicts about their finances that make little to no sense the closer one looks at their financial, professional and legal situation.

[DrSpaceman73]

Are you absolutely sure that you don't buy from one rep over another because of factors you're unaware of? Like, more likely to buy from a pretty woman than an ugly one? To buy from a man than a woman? To buy from a well-dressed attractive young woman, over an overweight, dowdy older woman? I'm not sure I can make that claim myself and I'm a woman. Seriously, I'd do Penny's job myself if I thought you didn't have to be beautiful and young to do it.

 

Studies have shown that men are more likely to make an impulse purchase while looking at a pretty girl's face, whether that's in person or online, so Penny might have noticed that she makes sales more when she does flirt.

I can tell you it doesn't influence me. It's not that I don't recognize who the attractive reps are. But if the product isn't useful or is too expensive, I am still not using it.

The most attractive rep I see, a sweet young girl, doesn't flirt but is very nice. I don't prescribe much of what she sells. Probably frustrates her. It not personal though

You don't have to be young and beautiful to do it. You have to be personable and likeable. Helps to be attractive but not a requirement.

In addition I have reps I see that have two products , I will prescribe one and not the other use because one if helpful and one isn't.

Most reps I see are average looking. Or male former college athletes.

[needschocolate]

Are you absolutely sure that you don't buy from one rep over another because of factors you're unaware of? Like, more likely to buy from a pretty woman than an ugly one? To buy from a man than a woman? To buy from a well-dressed attractive young woman, over an overweight, dowdy older woman? I'm not sure I can make that claim myself and I'm a woman. Seriously, I'd do Penny's job myself if I thought you didn't have to be beautiful and young to do it.

 

This reminded me of a recent news item -

 

A lady in San Francisco crashed her vehicle into a man’s car in a fit of anger after arguing over a desired parking spot.

 

The woman was wearing a cleavage bearing dress at the time of the incident and was able to drive away from the scene after damaging the male victim’s car.

 

When police arrived, the victim could not offer a plate number for the hit and run lady. He also could not provide what type of vehicle she was driving.

 

The man did however give officers one clue. According to police, the victim “was able to give a detailed description of the suspect’s cleavage”.

 

[Mom x 3]

Oh and also, Penny doesn't really HAVE TO FLIRT to sell her drugs. She likely reverts to this because its what she knows and what she is good at doing. As a male physician though, I can honestly say, I am not writing a prescription because one rep is sexier or more flirtatious than another. And most reps, or in fact very few reps, don't really act that way.

I'm with DrSpaceman73.  As a female physician, I am not swayed by the appearance of a rep.  The only factor that may affect my prescribing habits is if they have coupons I can give to my patients to make the medications more affordable.

[CherryAmes]

I think if your sales reps touched your arm for "two Mississippi's" you might feel differently :).

[shapeshifter]

I think if your sales reps touched your arm for "two Mississippi's" you might feel differently :).

Meaning showing them the door?

[ProfCrash]

I was worried about the heart beat as well. It is actually a bit nerve wracking when you go to the Doctors office and they are looking for the heart beat, especially in the early stages. It can be hard to find. I wonder how many of the people on the writing staff have any experience with losing a pregnancy or a particularly hard pregnancy.

The guys aren't professors. They are full time researchers and at Caltech more funding means more money to "play with" but their salaries are separate from that and very generous for the industry. Also why does Leonard still have student loan debt, his PhD would have been filly funded, the only thing that would make sense if it was from undergrad ( I can see his mom refusing to help pay for school) 

I completed my PhD in Political Science a while back. Everyone I went to school with was took student loans at some point in time. I took out loans my first two years of graduate school. If you have a teaching or research assistantship, the school will pay a stipend and cover the cost of classes (my school covered three classes a semester.) The stipend may or may not cover all of your expenses, if you are on a 1/4 time the stipend probably would not cover your living expenses. I was fine when I was at 1/2 time. You also have to consider the cost of traveling for conferences and research. Many times these costs are not covered by the University but such travel is pretty much mandatory. Conference presentations are an important part of a students socialization and were many people will start the interview process for jobs.

 

Also, the guys might have needed to take out loans in order to cover their undergraduate expenses. Yes, they had great grades in high school but that does not guarantee a large enough scholarship or collection of scholarships to cover all of their expenses. I suspect that Leonard did not have the same scholarship and graduate school opportunities as Sheldon and would have incurred some debt. 

 

I know when I finished I had all government loans and was able to refinance them so that the interest was low enough that it made a lot more sense to pay off credit card debt. The rate of return for money I was investing was far higher then my interest payments (3%) so it made sense to invest money rather then pay off the loans. That said, I paid four times my minimum payment and paid my loans off long before they were due but not until I had paid off credit card debt and I made sure to maximize my 401 K plan.

 

So yeah, Grad school can lead to debt. I attended a school in the Mid West were the cost of living was low. My friends in NY and LA had a similar stipend and had to take out a lot more then I did.

 

They are not they are not adjuncts as they are not professors. Sheldon was specifically described as a "Senior Theoretical Physicis" ,  they are research scientists, different position. If they were full tenured professors they would be on track to make upwards of 200K instead of the 100k they would be pulling down now. 

The guys might be tenured but there is no way they are full professors. It takes a while to get to the point that they would be considered for full professorships. The only exception would be an amazing publication track record. They don't discuss their pubs all that often so it is hard to say if they are wonderkins or average academics. I assume that they are very good at what they do, otherwise they would not be where they are, but the tenure requirements for places like Cal Tech are far greater then the requirements at other schools. I know a good number of folks who were hired at Harvard for their first position and they all pretty much knew that there was no way in hell they were going to be tenured. The bar was far to high for most people to reach but being hired by Harvard and publishing meant that they could land at an amazing location for their second job, probably with tenure, a few years early.

[OtterMommy]

Also, the guys might have needed to take out loans in order to cover their undergraduate expenses. Yes, they had great grades in high school but that does not guarantee a large enough scholarship or collection of scholarships to cover all of their expenses. I suspect that Leonard did not have the same scholarship and graduate school opportunities as Sheldon and would have incurred some debt. 

 

Except it seems that Leonard came from a family that, while they might not value him, does value education--and is fairly well off.  I don't think it is unreasonable to consider that he might have made it out without student loans.  As for Sheldon, I think it is also a safe assumption that he had scholarships thrown at him like water balloons.  Raj, being a foreign student, would have had to have his education paid for by his rich parents.  In fact, the only one of the four that I would expect to have any debt would have been Howard.

 

Also, these guys are all in the sciences.  I worked in a science department of a university where part of my job was dealing with grants and it is very common for students, especially at the PhD level, to have their education paid for by grants for projects they are working on.

[CherryAmes]

Also while it's never actually said as far as I can remember it's a pretty safe bet that one or both of Leonard's parents work at Princeton which is where he went to school.  I would be surprised to learn that there aren't some perks available to the children of faculty members.  Perhaps not a tuition free ride but I'm sure there would be some assistance available, especially for gifted students who are as advanced in their chosen field as Leonard.

[Squirrely]

I used to work in a large hospital as a phlebotomist and was often stationed in the ER. Drug reps came in occasionally, and what I remember most is all the free shit. :) Obviously I wasn't writing prescriptions, so I can't say if anything swayed the docs, but I don't recall much flirting going on. The reps were always well-dressed and professional looking and acting. The best days were when they brought food. Any hard-working, exhausted doctor is going to appreciate a box of bagles or sandwiches over spilling cleavage, I'm sure. At least in a hospital that isn't cast and scripted by sitcom writers or Shonda Rhimes.

[kat165]

Speaking of finances I've always wondered how Mary Cooper could afford to

live in a house without wheels and what did Mrs. Wolowitz live on? Her husband

left them and I never got the impression that he left them with any money or

that Mrs. W had a job.

[CherryAmes]

I wondered that too.  It's obvious that Mary Cooper has been left fairly well off, she can afford to cruise for instance and to fly to California to see Sheldon whenever she gets a call.  Yet when we first meet her she's a 50ish widow without a job (or certainly no job is ever mentioned).  Are we supposed to believe her massively overweight, alcoholic husband had enough life insurance that she was set for life when he died?  I guess we are :).  Same of course for Mrs Wolowitz.  Has she been living on alimony all these years?  I know Lorre et al always wants us to believe that in divorce situations women always clean up and men are on the hook for life but even so I don't recall them ever saying that she was living on alimony payments all these years. 

 

Both women remind me of  Marie and Frank on Everybody Loves Raymond.  Remarkably comfortably off as if they have a private income that never gets mentioned - we are supposed to assume they are living off Frank's pension and old age security but given the way they live that must be one hell of a pension!

[CherryAmes]

Quote

I wouldn't get too caught up in the specifics about how much money any of them should make, the choice of $6000 as the amount, the actual finances of any of them or the specific details about what their jobs at the university.

I just saw the episode again where Penny talks about her investments and we find out Leonard has student debt and what you're saying here is absolutely true.  The writers have zero consistency with the finances and don't give a damn what they say from episode to episode.

It's clear in that earlier episode that they are deliberately portraying Penny as now being the financially responsible wealthy part of the team and Leonard as being in debt and poor by comparison.  Fast forward to the next season and we're back to Penny being the screw up with money and Leonard prudently socking away his pennies.  As my husband constantly reminds me "it's a sitcom, relax."  But I don't care this kind of stuff bugs the hell out of me!! 

Edited May 23, 2016 by CherryAmes

[readster]

18 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

I just saw the episode again where Penny talks about her investments and we find out Leonard has student debt and what you're saying here is absolutely true.  The writers have zero consistency with the finances and don't give a damn what they say from episode to episode.

It's clear in that earlier episode that they are deliberately portraying Penny as now being the financially responsible wealthy part of the team and Leonard as being in debt and poor by comparison.  Fast forward to the next season and we're back to Penny being the screw up with money and Leonard prudently socking away his pennies.  As my husband constantly reminds me "it's a sitcom, relax."  But I don't care this kind of stuff bugs the hell out of me!! 

I completely agree and considering everything, I have no doubt any of the group didn't at least get a some grants or scholarships while finishing their advance degrees. The student loan debt only works if the said character wasn't doing well job wise and couldn't live within their means and had other things come us such as: house, family, car payments, ect. Yet, the show likes to jump around from zero debt to apparently having huge spending habits. Kind of like how in season 3 on Mike and Molly when Molly had enormous loan debt because she spent it all the time despite living at home, paying minor rent unlike her sister who paid "zero" rent and was making over 35K a year but blowing it on pot and so forth. I remember at one point they tried to have it where Sheldon was spending all his money on collectibles, which would make sense, but then turned around and him go: "I know the difference when I need a comic book and paying my rent." 

   Chuck Lorre and all the writers at CBS just don't know how debt works in the education world and don't know it differs from state to state depending on where they working or what their degree is in. Having Penny now being the irresponsible one with money and Leonard now the smart one when it comes to money is as stupid as how Raj was socking money away while his parents paid for everything and then magically having massive debt when his parents stopped. Where the rest of his money go? Its beyond tired now.

[Homily]

The only thing Lorre et al are consistent about is their belief that people who work as scientists in universities are making a pittance.  Major league irritant.  Anyway with regard to that earlier episode I think the main reason they were stressing Penny being financially successful was to make her wondering about restarting her acting career seem even dumber than it was. In other words (contrary to all the foregoing seasons)  Penny can't depend on Leonard's income if she wants to go back to acting.  This year they have Penny talk about how she hates her job and magically Leonard has a savings account -- makes me wonder if they are going to have Penny try her luck at acting again after all and want us to know that Leonard could carry them both financially after all.

[doodlebug]

On ‎4‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 0:43 AM, Hecate7 said:

Studies have shown that men are more likely to make an impulse purchase while looking at a pretty girl's face, whether that's in person or online, so Penny might have noticed that she makes sales more when she does flirt.

I am also a physician and the pharmaceutical companies have done plenty of research for their marketing programs and it has been shown that young physically attractive drug reps get a bigger share of the market than older, less conventionally attractive sales reps.  Interestingly, it has also been show that, even when doctors claim their prescribing practices are not affected by visits from drug reps; evaluation of the prescriptive habits of various docs when correlated to visits from reps shows that they very clearly do.  It's also been shown that small gifts from drug companies like pens, scratch pads, coffee mugs are far more likely to result in increased sales than are larger gifts like theater tickets, fancy dinners in restaurants, etc.  Probably its because docs who get expensive perks go out of their way not to appear influenced while a guy drinking out of a coffee mug with the name of the latest blood pressure med doesn't feel like he is beholden to the company and their not so subliminal message even if he is.

 

This is why the AMA and other organizations advise doctors not to take any freebies from drug reps.  I work for a huge hospital system and we are not allowed to accept anything, not a fridge magnet, not a paper clip.  Neither are the other office employees.  When the managers come through the office, they have a fit and immediately toss anything with branding from a drug or medical supply company.

Edited May 23, 2016 by doodlebug

[LoneHaranguer]

1 hour ago, Homily said:

This year they have Penny talk about how she hates her job and magically Leonard has a savings account

I don't see why Leonard couldn't have decided to start putting some money away after he found out Penny was doing the same. However he may rationalize it, how could he let himself feel less responsible than a person who treats a financial windfall as an opportunity to go shopping?

[Homily]

The point is they felt no need to talk about Leonard saving money until Penny talked about hating her job and having debt.  It's like they can never have both Leonard and Penny be in good places financially at the same time.  And there's no real reason for it.  The only thing that's changed in their lives is Penny is no longer a waitress/actress but instead has a job where she's outearning Leonard.  It's just lazy writing and no concern at all for consistency.  And I fearlessly predict it's a harbinger of things to come - I am betting Penny will quit her job next season.

[readster]

17 hours ago, Homily said:

The point is they felt no need to talk about Leonard saving money until Penny talked about hating her job and having debt.  It's like they can never have both Leonard and Penny be in good places financially at the same time.  And there's no real reason for it.  The only thing that's changed in their lives is Penny is no longer a waitress/actress but instead has a job where she's outearning Leonard.  It's just lazy writing and no concern at all for consistency.  And I fearlessly predict it's a harbinger of things to come - I am betting Penny will quit her job next season.

The only thing I can believe is how you can fall on old habits when something like money is involved. My wife and I have done it, but we do get the picture. I mean I can get something I want, but also know when its something small because I rather pay out debt down. I remember about 2 years ago when her old job was getting ready to close up. We had months to know about it, and I said that since we had the extra money, let's pay off the outstanding bills so we won't be looking for money later on. She was in a complete: "No, we don't need to do that." "This other job will happen and we'll be fine." She also made the comment about giving money that I had just made to her parents to buy their old car and were charging us an even $4K for it when the dealership and KBB said it was only worth 1K and not to mention had over 140K miles on it. I told her that was not right and her opinion was: "Don't be stingy and just make my dad happy." Well, guess what? She never got the new job. We had our dishwasher break, needed to replace our refrigerator and a cleaning company talked her into purchasing an $800 unit we didn't really need for our furnace. Then not only that but the van we bought from her parents needed new brakes not even a month later. New shocks and then new tires because they were balding. We spent $3,600K for the van before that and we ended up almost maxing out our cards and my job cut our pay. 

   So, now I just work small jobs on the side to pay off things and when her parents say we need to buy something I tell them to buy it for us. Because now they want us to buy a new car because their old one is on its last legs. Verses if I would have used the 4K I had, we could have paid things off, gotten a new car and be in a lot better situation.

 Ok Rant over and back on topic. BBT, they have to write it so that Penny and Leonard can't learn from their mistakes and then go into hard earn saving or hard spending because they have money. I wish they had it where someone else was making them think they need to spend it but instead they come off as two people that never learn. Especially Penny, stop going shopping and maybe worry about getting a house, brownstone or paying things off. Instead they come across as two people who have to hide things from each other or one of them is going to blow their money on something stupid that they both can live without. Even more, the fact that Leonard isn't earning closer to 100K at this point in time and also would have loan payoff from the university at this point. 

[CherryAmes]

That's a good point.  Why is it that we have Penny being shown as being a spendthrift who can't manage money even when she's earing la Big Bucks but she's only been earning those big bucks for a year or two.  Leonard has had a professional level job for years. has to be making good money even if not Big Bucks and yet when they decide to try and convince us that he has no money it's because he has student debt?  Not very convincing.   Sure he's paid Penny's way a lot of the time when she was an actress but there was never once at any time in those years any indication that this was a financial hardship for him.  Because it wasn't!  He was earning a professional salary, sharing the rent on an apartment that can't be costing all that much considering Penny could afford to live across the hall from them and as far as we know has no obligations to anyone other than himself (no child support or alimony type thing).

If Leonard really has so little money at this stage of his life it's because of his own spending habits but the writers don't address that.  Penny spends too much on shoes but Leonard can spend what he wants on comics and collectibles?  Arrgh.

[shapeshifter]

39 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

If Leonard really has so little money at this stage of his life it's because of his own spending habits but the writers don't address that.  Penny spends too much on shoes but Leonard can spend what he wants on comics and collectibles?  Arrgh.

Wasn't Leonard prepared to spend a princely sum on the time machine replica?
Regardless, if he and Sheldon are splitting rent, then his housing should cost the same as Penny's, who had a waitress's salary. IDK. I had some friends who waitressed and who Penny is at least as attractive as, and my friends got $50 tips back in the 70s. But I think my friends were at swankier restaurants.

[readster]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Wasn't Leonard prepared to spend a princely sum on the time machine replica?
Regardless, if he and Sheldon are splitting rent, then his housing should cost the same as Penny's, who had a waitress's salary. IDK. I had some friends who waitressed and who Penny is at least as attractive as, and my friends got $50 tips back in the 70s. But I think my friends were at swankier restaurants.

Its such a huge plot hole for years on what is being spent on the rent between two professionals making at least 70K a year (140K total) before taxes and someone who has been in and out of jobs for several years (Penny). I get that Lenoard and even Sheldon have gone overboard on spendings (Sheldon's trains). However, when you throw out the constant "student debt" its very stupid at this point in time. Leonard would have had something paid off by now. Even before the series began, we know that Leonard was keeping money stashed and then buying big things with it when he had enough, but kept plenty of back up for things. Then just like Raj, the student loan debt just magically became a thing again because his parents cut him off when he would have had international grants and so forth. Its just a tired plot of how Chuck Lorre and the writing staff don't know how much people in their positions make or that eventually people learn from their mistakes and don't have other family members influencing their financial spending. Its just Penny going: "Hey money! "Spend, Spend, Spend!" Like how Alan on TAHM was constantly: "I have to pay out money to someone again, because a chiropractor who is divorce can't make $2." 

[OtterMommy]

On 5/24/2016 at 9:21 AM, shapeshifter said:

Wasn't Leonard prepared to spend a princely sum on the time machine replica?

Not exactly.  He had made a large bid to up the price of it, but then no one outbid him and he was stuck with the time machine.

Quote

Regardless, if he and Sheldon are splitting rent, then his housing should cost the same as Penny's, who had a waitress's salary. IDK. I had some friends who waitressed and who Penny is at least as attractive as, and my friends got $50 tips back in the 70s. But I think my friends were at swankier restaurants.

That is an interesting point about housing.  Sheldon and Leonard's 2 bedroom apartment would be more expensive than Penny's one bedroom, but not so much so that Leonard's share of the rent would be more than Penny's.  In fact, it would be markedly less.  When I was an apartment dweller, one bedrooms were about $600 in my area, whereas 2 bedrooms were about $750.  If we are to apply that to this show (which is not at all accurate as the cost of living in SoCal is significantly higher than my area and this was several years ago), Leonard would be paying $375 to Penny's $600.

And Penny probably couldn't make big bucks in tips at the Cheesecake factory.  My guess is that dinner for 4 there would be $60-80, which would make a 20% tip (which is higher than many would tip) would only be $12-$16.  She may be able to pull in a couple hundred dollars an night--possibly $1000 if it were a really good night, but her wage would be so low and her taxes on her tips so high that she would only keep a couple hundred  of that.

I guess I can say that I can believe Sheldon and Leonard's salaries supporting their lifestyle, but there is no way that waitress Penny's would ever come close to her life on the show.