S04.E18: Eleven-Fifty-Nine

[Delphi]

I'm getting the unfortunate impression you thought I was serious...

Why wouldn't you be serious? I wanna see River Song as the Black Canary.

[AudienceofOne]

Why wouldn't you be serious? I wanna see River Song as the Black Canary.

 

The reason why I said that was because, right back in Season 1, they introduced Dinah Lance played by Alex Kingston and I thought she was the Black Canary. I thought Laurel was going to discover her Mum was secretly a vigilante. But unless we discover she has a secret history of leather-clad crime fighting, then it won't work. Which is a shame because I too would have liked to see Kingston's Black Canary.

[millennium]

A lot of people hate Laurel/Katie Cassidy.  

 

I get it.

 

I accept it.

 

Doesn't mean I like or approve of the treatment the Black Canary character received at the hands of the rank amateurs writing this show.  Bozos whose concept of edgy writing is to swipe from Batman comics, friend-zone the canonical love of Oliver Queen's life, and turn a good, hard-edged character into a wishy-washy mush who babbles on and on about "the darkness."

[nksarmi]

I don't understand how anyone watched the pilot and didn't reject the canon pairing of Laurel and Oliver right from the start.  I'm trying not to break the rules of this board or be rude but I sincerely do not understand how the idea of Lauriver even survived the first episode. I would have thought the idea that he banged her sister would have put anyone invested in that couple in a rage and they would have never watched another episode.

 

I know I sure as hell scratched them off my list of "ships" from that moment on.  I mean seriously, I thought Diggle dating his brother's wife was gross in season one as well.  There are just some lines you don't cross and for me - siblings is a big one.

 

So while I too did not like that they never gave Laurel a martial arts background, had her take up the Black Canary mantle by killing off an excellent character and then making her so inept at it, had her join Oliver's team against his wishes, and kind of force feed me the idea that he ever accepted her when it sure as hell seemed to me that he never wanted her around....and then had her die in such a bad way while confessing her love for him - yes it's a major ew.  I can see why people do not like this portrayal of Black Canary.

 

BUT the writing was on the wall in the very first episode that there was not going to be a canonical pairing of GA/BC on this show if that BC was Laurel.

By season two it was also obvious that Laurel as BC was going to be a shadow of Sara's Canary and not resemble the comic book character in any way.

So it hardly seems to me that her death should be the thing that makes people outraged at how they showed BC in the show - they messed that up years ago, perhaps from the moment KC was cast. 

 

Personally, I think the only thing the writers could have done was writer her out better than this - they couldn't fix what they screwed up from the moment of the pilot.

[ketose]

I'm done. I'm wiping the recording from the schedule.

 

So much stupid.

[BkWurm1]

She's the Black Canary.   Long a vital part of the Green Arrow story.   The Black Canary belonged on the show.   IMO, she had a far greater stake in the Green Arrow canon, and more right to be there, than some other characters I could name.

This is my point, the whole argument for why she is important comes down to because the name she was given has a storied history.  Not the character on this show. 

 

I've come to realize that a great many of the complaints over Laurel being killed make up a lot of the reasons why I rejected her as a failed character almost right away.

 

For me, the Black Canary is NOT supposed to be a bitter betrayed love interest that flip flops between loving and hating Ollie Queen, isn't allowed to win at her job without his help, nor should her story shift into one emotional crisis after the other and eventually move to second string to GA, but on this show, they spelled it out in the first episode that she was only going to be in service to Oliver's story.

 

And it sucked and the way they were weakening her as a character (compared to the one I'd known from animated stories) made me very quickly very ready to never think of her as BC again. At least not THE BC. On Arrow she was always going to be there ultimately to prop up Oliver and that's why they never figured out how to write for her "correctly" and why after four years they decided her story had reached a plateau.

 

There is a high level of shock and vitriol for how they've mistreated the character but this, this show and this character...by my standards this is not the Black Canary -- Not the one at least being defended because of her important comic connection to the Green Arrow.  

 

Could Laurel have been written better?

 

At this point, it's a pointless question. She wasn't and while I admire the hope that lived that SOMEDAY she would live up to expectations and the writing would be worthy, I guess for me, it comes down to confusion since this character we got was not the one that the comic legacy of Black Canary deserved and never has been and for me, I refused early on to let the sad coincidence of her sharing a name and some surface traits with the worthy one, result in breaking my heart for one that was not worthy.

 

The "because comics" argument is more than half the reason WHY I rejected Laurel and so I have no conflict over seeing that character on Arrow killed.   

Edited April 9, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Midnight Lullaby]

This is Oliver's story. Arrow isn't like LoT. It has one lead and the others fall into the "supportive character" category. Laurel was a supportive character, she currently added nothing to the show because she had nothing to give to further Oliver's journey anymore so it makes sense she was the one to bite the dust. If anyone had different expectations on her role "because comics" it's not on the writers. As they said in old interviews they had issues with writing her because she didn't fit into the main storyline and she would have been gone a long time ago if it wasn't for the CW that pushed them to keep the actress, not even the character, no one cared, the actress.

[dtissagirl]

As they said in old interviews they had issues with writing her because she didn't fit into the main storyline and she would have been gone a long time ago if it wasn't for the CW that pushed them to keep the actress, not even the character, no one cared, the actress.

Didn't Guggenheim once mention on Tumblr he had trouble finding stories for Laurel to put in the digital comics? That tells me they didn't even know how to treat her as a comic book character -- while having the medium available to do so.

[Morrigan2575]

Didn't Guggenheim once mention on Tumblr he had trouble finding stories for Laurel to put in the digital comics? That tells me they didn't even know how to treat her as a comic book character -- while having the medium available to do so.

Yes LL barely appeared in the 2.5 comics and he mentioned that it was difficult to Fit her into the story.

[Sakura12]

I'm wondering if Laurel didn't have the name and was just a character on the show, would anyone care if she died? Is there only an outcry because of well "because comics"? Was her name the only thing that was important? 

 

Because as I said she had nothing in common with the Black Canary from the comics. All she had was the name. I wanted a live action BC and Arrow's Laurel Lance was never it. In fact she ruined the name Black Canary by using it. She's not a master martial artist that could beat Oliver in a fight.  She wasn't a leader. She was a gloried side kick no matter how many times they said "She got better". Black Canary was always better. She didn't chose her name. The name that had actual meaning to Sara. Laurel just took it and added the color of both of their outfits. She didn't become a hero because she had the skills to do it. She became one because she was angry and wanted to feel better about herself. 

 

My live action BC came in the form of Sara. Who I do believe after seeing Sara's upgraded fighting skills on LoT and Oliver downgraded fighting skills on Arrow could definitely take him in a fight. 

Edited April 9, 2016 by Sakura12

[BunsenBurner]

LL was the one who was killed she just happened to be in her BC gear.  It was not a random act.

 

DD even told us that. He reminded her that he had told her father of the consequences of his betrayal to DD would be the death of his daughter. Her death was the promise kept. 

 

This makes her death even better for the team and more devastating for her father. It was her father's fault but it was with OQ/GA's arrow, the love of her life. She was just standing there in the prison while DD was pontificating and then bam unexpectedly he shoves GA's arrow in her stomach. BC is dead, although not really she has to go to the hospital. Then in the hospital they, Team Arrow, are told she'll be fine and then again bam she dies. LL is dead. The writers wanted to make it perfectly clear they were both dead.  The death was mundane but was a repercussion of her father's betrayal to DD and not from anything LL/BC had ever done. She died as she lived with no consequences for her actions.

[ComicFan777]

I wish that DD didn't say that he killed Laurel because of Lance.  It reminds me of the Killing Joke with Barbara getting hurt because the Joker wanted to hurt Commissioner Gordon and Batman.  Without DD saying this, Laurel's death would have been solely based on her own choices/actions, rather than also being a casualty of Lance's actions.

[looptab]

They had to somehow justify why killing just her when Damien had ALL of them, again, at his mercy.

[Sakura12]

I also think DD killing Laurel, meant her death was planned from the beginning. They knew she was in the grave even though they said they didn't know who it was. They probably had back up plans if DC said no to them. But Laurel was always the top choice. She should've been gone in S2 since they never knew what to do with her or where she fit. 

[ComicFan777]

They had to somehow justify why killing just her when Damien had ALL of them, again, at his mercy.

 

Since Oliver was able to un-freeze himself, chaos could have ensued and Laurel was killed in the process with the team fighting everyone.  While Oliver shot the arrow at DD, DD loses concentration, Laurel could try to canary cry to break the magic idol, but then DD redirects the Oliver's arrow to kill Laurel and stop the canary cry.  That would have given the same result - death of the Black Canary and raising the stakes of being a hero.

 

It is weird though that DD didn't also kill Oliver since he knew he was both GA/OQ who always foiled his plans.

Edited April 9, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Guest]

I still find it really weird how no one cried out or shouted when Laurel was stabbed. Didn't it just go really quiet? It was so odd. Is that the scene they had to reshoot? Because yeah, I can tell. Just terrible. It had no urgency or anything but then I think it lost it the moment they had Damien explain why he was about to kill her. 

Edited April 9, 2016 by Guest

[Chaser]

It would have worked better if DD had separated LL from the others somehow. Laurel and DD have an actual fight. The others burst in after DD had stabbed her.

 

I loved that DD made good on his word to Lance. That was how I wanted it to go down.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Chaser

[bijoux]

It would have worked better if DD had separated LL from the others somehow. Laurel and DD have an actual fight. The others burst in after DD had stabbed her.

 

I loved that DD made good on his word to Lance. That was how I wanted it to go down.

 

Darhk really needed that as a villain. He started to be far more bark than bite, so it was a shot of energy to him.

 

As for Laurel fighting Darhk, I really would have found that hard to believe. I get what you and so many people are saying in regards to Laurel going down swinging for multiple reasons, but it would just have been too unbelievable. Maybe if she landed a kick before he re-powered or something.

[Sakura12]

I would've been fine with Darkh separating Laurel somehow then Laurel stupidly charging at him and then he stabs her.

Arrows problem is they have to stop killing the women while they are defenseless. I hope Malcolm is killed with very little fanfare. But I know that won't happen. His penis means he'll have a big death.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Sakura12

[ohjoy]

I was so distracted throughout the episode by Oliver's puffy coat vest... sorry, I mean, Green Arrow costume. Seriously, it puffs out at times and looks ridiculous.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Okay, I know that was a while ago, but it took me all week to get though the ever-increasing page count, and that was one of the funniest things I saw.

I tend to be mostly unspoiled (although even I couldn't miss the bts rumors leading up to this episode), so I almost fell for the fake out (I began to think something was going to happen to Quentin on his way to hospital instead)... until that insipid "love of my life" line. I was already scream/cry/laughing over the return of that stupid photo (which happened to be the only part of the flashbacks I actually caught -- I started FF-ing them after the season premiere and have never regretted it), but as soon as I heard that line I knew Laurel had to die. You don't get to say something that ridiculous TO SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT RECIPROCATE without imminent death.

I really wish they hadn't gone there. It would have been more respectful of almost every main character on the show if Laurel's death scenes had focused on the relationships she actually had on the show (i.e. Quentin, Sara, etc.), instead of on the one she'd been head-cannoning for practically its entire existence. Sorry, there's no way you'll get me to believe that Ollie ever treated her in a way that justified her putting up with his lecherous behavior (toward every woman BUT her) and then pining after him when even that came to an end. That's some mad selective-memory skill you got there, Laurel.

Felicity's absence was very noticeable to me, but when she did show up I was glad she hadn't been there until that moment. This ep really needed to slow down and think about what it was doing ('cause it definitely did NOT do whatever it thought it was doing) -- trying to cram Felicity into all that would not have made it better. I just knew the ep's goals were not being sufficiently achieved when I was constantly being distracted by the writing and the editing. Not good. (But maybe their one goal was to just get it over with -- in which case, brava.)

[Chaser]

I kind of picture DD bating Laurel away like a little pest. The reason I think it would have been better to separate them is because viewers wouldn't be asking why he didn't just wipe out the others too.

 

I had commented before that I thought KC was terrible in the stabbing scene, but I found a moment that actually worked for me acting wise. When DD starts walking towards her talking about her Dad, she looks in shock. Like she just realized in that moment what he was going to do. 

[Guest]

For me it was just the whole scene fell flat the moment they were all just standing there frozen, obviously, and Damien turns to Laurel and gets his villain monologue about fulfilling a threat made to Quentin. It was like they stabbed the scene with a pin and all of the air/energy rushed out of it. 

 

When Sara died, I gasped out loud when she fell over the edge and hit that dumpster. It was such a horrible and brutal way to die. I guess some of that reaction could be due to the fact that I wasn't exactly expecting it, contrast to being spoiled for Laurel's death, but the way Damien stabbed her just didn't get any reaction out of me. And that's not because I don't like Laurel, I'm not heartless, I can have reactions to deaths even if I don't like a character. It's just the whole scene was phoned in and meh.

 

So yeah, I do think it would have been better if Laurel had fought him or at least had the chance to try. 

[ComicFan777]

I would've been fine with Darkh separating Laurel somehow then Laurel stupidly charging at him and then he stabs her.

 

Definitely a That's so Laurel! move, reminiscent of Laurel recklessly charging at Malcolm in the past.

[Primal Slayer]

Laurels death made me look back at all the other major deaths and now it isn't surprising how she went out. All the major females practically died the same way while the males got more honorable deaths.

[tennisgurl]

Can I just say, it has been a freaking blood bath on my TV the last few weeks? At least 5 or 6 shows I watch have killed off pretty major characters, most of them female. Some of them were "good" deaths (made sense in the plot, respectful to the character) and some were...not. Its just weird its all kind of happened at once. 

[statsgirl]

The "because comics" argument is more than half the reason WHY I rejected Laurel and so I have no conflict over seeing that character on Arrow killed.   

I would upvote this post 12 times if I could.

 

It seems to me that Berlanti & Co. only had a vague idea of what the show was going to be about when they sold the concept for a pilot.  There was the Green Arrow backstory of being stranded on an island, there were the Nolan Batman movies (I can see the studio being interested because of how popular they had been) and there was the Vampire Diaries love triangle model.  They hired Stephen Amell, Colin Donnell and David Ramsey (promising DR that his role would get bigger later in the series) and the CW pushed KC at them.  Then they started writing the show and seeing which components worked and which didn't. 

 

The Vampire Diaries triangle was dropped in s1 when they decided to kill Tommy. Maybe they decided that Laurel wasn't going to be the Black Canary they thought when they saw what Caity Lotz was doing with Sara in s2.  S3 they took a stab at making Laurel the Black Canary, maybe for the reason that someone who is leaving the marriage goes to marriage counseling, to give it a Hail Mary shot or to show others that it isn't going to work..

 

DD even told us that. He reminded her that he had told her father of the consequences of his betrayal to DD would be the death of his daughter. The death was mundane but was a repercussion of her father's betrayal to DD and not from anything LL/BC had ever done. She died as she lived with no consequences for her actions.

Even in death, they didn't know how to write a story for her.  This was Quentin's story

 

It is weird though that DD didn't also kill Oliver since he knew he was both GA/OQ who always foiled his plans.

That was one of those "you can't kill the hero of the show" moments.  I can try to fanwank it about showing that DD keeps his threats (towards Quentin) and that he was keeping Oliver alive to toy with him later but even that is lame.

 

Why wouldn't you be serious? I wanna see River Song as the Black Canary.

I want to see an E2 Dinah as a retired Black Canary.

[TwistedandBored]

You know the more I think about the episode the more I am confused by it. Like when Laurel came out of the surgery. Why were Team Arrow not happy and relieved she is alive and breathing? Why were they acting all sad like she was going to die? Why was Laurel talking like she was going to die? If felt like we missed some scenes. 

 

See all of this confusion would not have happen if they had made the scene with the doctor a bit longer by having her tell Team Arrow that their friend is still in critical condition and to be careful when talking to her. 

 

The whole hospital scenes was telegraphed weirdly and caused lots of confusion. 

[Lady Calypso]

You know the more I think about the episode the more I am confused by it. Like when Laurel came out of the surgery. Why were Team Arrow not happy and relieved she is alive and breathing? Why were they acting all sad like she was going to die? Why was Laurel talking like she was going to die? If felt like we missed some scenes. 

 

See all of this confusion would not have happen if they had made the scene with the doctor a bit longer by having her tell Team Arrow that their friend is still in critical condition and to be careful when talking to her. 

 

The whole hospital scenes was telegraphed weirdly and caused lots of confusion. 

 

The only answer I can come up with is that they wanted to have this 'twist', this fakeout of Laurel being fine and then dying. The hospital scenes were written for plot reasons, rather than character reasons, which is why it failed spectacularly for me. Imagine if the doctor had said that Laurel didn't have much time. Besides a few line changes, it would have worked a lot better. But because we had Laurel be fine, all the sadness and confessions didn't work. We didn't have Felicity say all these things, I assume, when she got out of her first surgery. It's because they wanted to go for shock factor that made the hospital scenes so awkward and badly written. 

 

And honestly, I would have been much more emotionally invested IF there was no fakeout. It would have made more sense, and I would have been sad for Laurel more, because she would have been aware of her dying, we could have had Oliver in denial, and her goodbye would have been more poignant for me. 

[nksarmi]

Laurels death made me look back at all the other major deaths and now it isn't surprising how she went out. All the major females practically died the same way while the males got more honorable deaths.

I think the best female death so far was Moira and she was bound when she died.  What makes her death the best was that even though her hands were tied, she stood up and choose her death, saving her daughter in the process.  She died a hero.

 

Shado, Sara, and now Laurel didn't even get that much respect.

[nksarmi]

You know what would have really made Laurel's death resonate?  If somehow they had filmed a moment where Constantine had taken her off to the side to talk to her about something without telling us what it was.  Then once they told KC she was being written off - they could have written in Laurel telling Oliver that Constantine told her there would be a price to pay for brining Sara back and that price would be her own life.  She should have told Oliver she had come to think maybe Constantine was wrong but now she knew he was right and she was going to die even though the doctors told them she would be fine. Then have her last words be "She's my little sister - I'd do it all again."  Then Laurel's death could have been related to a heroic (crazy and reckless) act and tell us again that cheating death has consequences.

[Primal Slayer]

I think the best female death so far was Moira and she was bound when she died.  What makes her death the best was that even though her hands were tied, she stood up and choose her death, saving her daughter in the process.  She died a hero.

 

Shado, Sara, and now Laurel didn't even get that much respect.

Her death definitely made more sense and was the most emotional but they really need to look at themselves and how they have all these women dying, especially when 4/5 are fighters and should've gone down in blazes of glory instead of basically just serving the same function. 

 

Tommy got to make a decision to run into a building and save Laurel which he was successful at. Deadshot got to help an entire building of people get to safety and chose to stay back and sacrifice himself. Ra's was fighting Oliver and lost and the same with Maseo w/ Katana who even basically ended with him "being free". If I were great at writing I would totally write an article about it with hopes that it would make it to MG/WM face. I would be very interested in seeing how they respond.

[AudienceofOne]

This show kills of female characters only to propel male character's arcs. It's the one thing about which I've always been irritated. This was no different. The first time they did it with Shado it really pissed me off. Now I'm just tired of it.

[apinknightmare]

Tommy got to make a decision to run into a building and save Laurel which he was successful at. Deadshot got to help an entire building of people get to safety and chose to stay back and sacrifice himself. Ra's was fighting Oliver and lost and the same with Maseo w/ Katana who even basically ended with him "being free". If I were great at writing I would totally write an article about it with hopes that it would make it to MG/WM face. I would be very interested in seeing how they respond.

 

If I had to guess, they'd respond with either:

 

1. There is no heroic way to die from an embolism 

 

or 

 

2. Knowing the threat DD made to Quentin regarding her, Laurel encouraged Quentin to testify against DD anyway, and put the importance of justice over her own personal safety, knowing that DD most likely intended to make good on his threat. 

 

I imagine there's some kind of really, really twisted logic arguing for her choice in her own death going on inside those brains. 

Edited April 9, 2016 by apinknightmare

[netlyon2]

This is Oliver's story. Arrow isn't like LoT. It has one lead and the others fall into the "supportive character" category. Laurel was a supportive character, she currently added nothing to the show because she had nothing to give to further Oliver's journey anymore so it makes sense she was the one to bite the dust. If anyone had different expectations on her role "because comics" it's not on the writers. As they said in old interviews they had issues with writing her because she didn't fit into the main storyline and she would have been gone a long time ago if it wasn't for the CW that pushed them to keep the actress, not even the character, no one cared, the actress.

Hmmm, I was going to pop out of lurkdom and drop this in the media thread, but it's so relevant to the current conversation:

BGN - Why We Don’t Need Black Canary: Arrow’s Reality vs Comic Book Mythos

I think I agree with about 90% of her points.

[Advance35]

I think I agree with about 90% of her points.

 

 

As do I.  

 

That's what makes me shrug this whole thing off.   Laurel didn't work in Season 1, She didn't work in Season 2.   When they moved her into the Arrow Cave she didn't fit and kind of threw off the chemistry in pretty much every Team Arrow scene she was shoehorned into.   

[Genki]

This show kills of female characters only to propel male character's arcs. It's the one thing about which I've always been irritated. This was no different. The first time they did it with Shado it really pissed me off. Now I'm just tired of it.

 

I disagree, Sara was killed to propel Laurel into the BC role, as poorly and shoehorned as it was to see Laurel's "Journey to being the Black Canary" it would have been 100 times worse if Sara was around as a viable alternate Black Canary for Laurel to be compared against. Sara's training, character beats and relationship  with Oliver fits much better with the "cannon" BC story IMO, so in order to make Laurel more viable as the BC Sarah had to Die so she was the only option with the name.

 

If it had been said in show that, while Laurel full name was "Dinah Laurel Lance", if Sarah's full name was "Sarah Dinah Lance", so much of the "because comics" arguments would be gone, IMO.

[millennium]

Felicity's absence was very noticeable to me, but when she did show up I was glad she hadn't been there until that moment.

 

Felicity's absence was probably the highlight of this episode.    Up until Laurel was murdered, the episode felt nostalgic, reminiscent of earlier seasons when Felicity hadn't yet become the main character.

[Chaser]

Honestly, that doesn't even make sense to me because there was nothing in that episode that resembled the S1

Setting.

Too me it showed what the show could have been without Felicity (fan service for Laurels last episode IMO) and I personally NOPE that show hard core.

[Sakura12]

If that was what the show was going to be like I would've given it up a long time ago. This episode was so boring until Laurel died. 

Edited April 10, 2016 by Sakura12

[ohjoy]

I will say that one scene in which I unexpectedly really enjoyed Laurel was when she was overseeing the prison inspection. When she told DD about the "anonymous tip" that resulted in his cell being searched, sarcastically mimicked his response with her own "Hmph!", and didn't back down from his threats -- I coulda used more of that Laurel, not the leather-, buckles-, and Ollie-lovin' Laurel. C'est la vie.

[La Dee Da]

It is weird though that DD didn't also kill Oliver since he knew he was both GA/OQ who always foiled his plans.

If they want Laurel's death to mean something - that the threats superheroes face are real - Darhk needs to stop playing with his food, as it were. As great as Neil McDonough is, there are no stakes going forward if he continues to just freeze people and reel off bon mot after bon mot, especially now that he knows who everyone is. I'm not advocating for more death, just a greater sense of urgency.

[AyChihuahua]

If they want Laurel's death to mean something - that the threats superheroes face are real - Darhk needs to stop playing with his food, as it were. As great as Neil McDonough is, there are no stakes going forward if he continues to just freeze people and reel off bon mot after bon mot, especially now that he knows who everyone is. I'm not advocating for more death, just a greater sense of urgency.

I think it's turned out to be a mistake to introduce him so early, BUT, it's not a mistake that was obvious ahead of time (I'm looking at YOU, BMD, and YOU, failure to chem test planned romantic lead actors!) so I'm giving them a pass for the moment.

 

Also, if I were a supervillain who could freeze my enemies, I'd definitely reel off a few bon mots, but I'm evil like that.

[bettername2come]

If they want Laurel's death to mean something - that the threats superheroes face are real - Darhk needs to stop playing with his food, as it were. As great as Neil McDonough is, there are no stakes going forward if he continues to just freeze people and reel off bon mot after bon mot, especially now that he knows who everyone is. I'm not advocating for more death, just a greater sense of urgency.

As lame as Laurel's death was, I am glad that Damien Darhk was able to kill off someone with his freeze trick. He almost killed Green Arrow months ago, and only didn't because Barry ran him away. Since then he hasn't tried a basic death by magic. I do think they need to play up the mortals vs. magic aspect some more now that Laurel's died. They need to show the characters realistically fighting those odds.

[EmilyBettFan]

I would've been fine with Darkh separating Laurel somehow then Laurel stupidly charging at him and then he stabs her.

Arrows problem is they have to stop killing the women while they are defenseless. I hope Malcolm is killed with very little fanfare. But I know that won't happen. His penis means he'll have a big death.

omg I know I'm not supposed to laugh at that ending but I did and I let out a big snort too! Edited April 10, 2016 by EmilyBettFan

[Duke Silver]

Screw this show.  Stupid ass me decided to binge watch this season after swearing it off last summer.  I despised LL/BC as a character, but even her death couldn't be done well.  MG & his gang are awful; I am shocked this show still gets the ratings that it does.  I blame myself for wasting the time.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Br0ken

[EmilyBettFan]

I don't know. Just because they made her semi-likeable doesn't mean she'll of a sudden became important to Oliver's storyline. Because no matter what fans want this is Oliver's story. If you can't somehow connect each character to Oliver then what's the point?

[Aeryn13]

I think back in Season 1 they absolutely wanted to go the route of Oliver/Laurel soulmates. The writing was pushing that. And if some CW exec wouldn`t have said "I like the blond IT girl, more of her", Felicity might not have made it beyond a few appearances so that couple wasn`t a blip on the radar screen back then. 

 

Now I had my problems with the writing for the character. The "Oliver`s true love"/love triangle with Tommy in Season 1 didn`t work, the addiction story in Season kinda made it worse, handing her the canary mantle after killing off Sara, whom I liked, was majorly iffy to me. But this Season I didn`t have much of a problem with Laurel. Granted, the sudden "raise Sara from the dead" plot was pretty ill-advised but that seemed more like a necessary step for Legends of Tomorrow so I couldn`t hold it against the character too much.

 

What Laurel mainly was this Season, was in the background though. I found her inoffensive but she didn`t have anything going on storywise either. They fixed a lot in writing for her personally but not plotwise. That could have been fixed and they didn`t need to kill her off.

 

And her death was written weirdly for me. There was backstory there with Darkh making good on his threat but hm. Also, waving a shipping flag for Olicity and bring up the "you are the love of my life but I know I`m not the love of yours" wasn`t a very befitting ending. At least make the death about the character in question and not have her comment on how apparently she was a footnote for the lead. That did make me feel bad for her.  

[tv echo]

Not to be nitpicky, but it was Warner Bros. TV President Peter Roth, who said that he liked the blonde IT girl.  So, higher up than a CW exec.  ;)

 

(The CW is a joint venture between Warner Bros. Entertainment and CBS.)

Edited April 10, 2016 by tv echo

[kismet]

In all seriousness, from the way it was edited from Ollie and Laurel talking without us hearing anything and then cutting to her flatlining even though the doctor seemed very sure she was going to be fine, I think Ollie faked her death.

They probably showed him faking Poppy's death in the flashback just for this. 

Have a lot of pages to catch up on... people have been busy.... :) SO perhaps other people have always addressed this theory.

 

I do think the editing allows wishful people to think that LL's death is being faked if they want to... however, I do not believe that is what they were going for. As medically inaccurate as her death scene was, I believe that was just crappy writing. The intention of the scene was to state that LL is physiologically dead. And even if they faked her death LL/KC will not be making another appearance on this show anytime soon. For all purposes & from every perspective KC/LL is off the show.

 

I do not generally trust the writers to keep to their interview promises, but they did promise that this death would stick - and I do trust that they are done with LL. Now could they wiggle around it by faking her death, sure. But I do believe and trust them that they are done writing her story on Arrow. She may be sitting on a beach somewhere, but she is never coming back to Arrow. The Arrow Writers have systematically stopped writing LL's story since they gave her the mask. Even in her final episode they could barely make her death story be about her.

 

If conspiracy theories and some people's wishful thinking is true and LL did not die, then all the best to them. But the truth is that LL/BC is dead to Arrow, regardless of whether she is actually dead or not that is irrelevant.

[kismet]

She definitely needed a better ending for her character, totally agree. I think we all agree on that. Her death was underwhelming and lacking and the whole deathbed scene was bad. Still maintain it should have been with her dad. They wrote her in death like they did in life - like they just didn't care tbh. 

Agree... I wonder now if they had managed to get a LL/QL scene in there after the OQ/LL scene would that have removed some of the ugly from having her last verbal scene be all about Oliver & not about her. But I do think the writers tended to send her off the way they wrote her for most of the series a vessel to write their own plots with no care or thoughts about her actual character & character's journey.