S04.E18: Eleven-Fifty-Nine

[Sakura12]

That's why I never thought the writers cared about Laurel's character. She was there, then they fired her and decided to give the actress what she wanted instead of writing any meaningful scenes for her characters end.  To the bitter end Laurel was just an afterthought. 

[statsgirl]

I think they cared about her in the beginning and except for the awful sister-swapping backstory, they tried everything they could to make her work. And then the show jelled and they suddenly realized how much fun it was writing for the Oliver/Diggle/Felicity combo, and it became about giving Laurel something to do in the hopes that she would become relevant while writing the rest of the show that they wanted.

[kismet]

I know we like to call Arrow a soap opera but recasting the role of Laurel Lance with another actress would truly make it one, and I think turn off a lot more viewers than killing her will.  (I can't think of any evening show that recast a character with another actor.)  It's hard enough to adapt when Dr. Who regenerates and I'm expecting that.

I think Private Practice recast after the Pilot with Audra McDonald's character, because initially it had Merrin Dungey in the role from my memory from episode 1. Quantico also recast but reshot the new actor in the role. It's not uncommon to recast from the pilot, but the promotion is all the new people. CW/WB went gung ho with KC in the promotion, so there was no way to recast it. At that point it just becomes really awkward when they do recast a role. It's commonly done in daytime soaps, but you're right I have rarely ever seen it on evening shows.

 

They had to recast Sara from the pilot because of actress availability. Which is another common reason.

 

Not that it really matters, but this KC being problematic from the pilot does not surprise me from how they wrote her character in later seasons, but its really an irrelevant issue because the writers room kept her for 4 years despite all of her problematic issues as a character. I'm glad they finally let her go or were able to let her go.

[Genki]

When a character's acceptance/likability improves because they are kept in the background all Season, they should be the logical choice to to "kill-off" when plotting out a death arc.

 

I think Laurel has been the best she has been for a long time in this episode, but a short amount of decentness doesn't make up for 3+ season of failure. I'm glad she was written out since character-wise she didn't gel and lots of things had to be written around her, to make her fit in or even provide screen-time.

 

I don't think it is a sign of sexism or fridging to kill off Laurel, since a character who doesn't fit organically (MG has made this such a dirty word to use) into the narrative  should be written out regardless of gender or race, etc.

[dtissagirl]

Game of Thrones had to recast a dude a couple of seasons ago. The Fosters had to recast a dude this season. It's not common, but it happens. But while the EPs might have wanted to recast KC after the pilot, and weren't allowed to do so, that wasn't true this season -- now they just wanted her out of the show.

 

I wish they had found a better WAY to do it, that didn't involve the dudebro villain monologuing about how her death was all about her father, or her last words being about her lack of a love life in contrast to Oliver's, but recasting wasn't ever an option now.

[Angel12d]

I agree. Laurel was probably the best she's been this season but that's because she was hardly there. And when she did get some focus, I still found her problematic. The whole resurrection of Sara storyline did Laurel no favors, plus the fallout from it when she was all 'I know I didn't tell anyone that Sara was chained in my basement and got free and is now killing people, BUT WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEE!' Like, no Laurel. Just no. 

 

So sadly, I think if Laurel had survived and had been given a bigger arc/storyline, much like she was last season, they still would have written her badly and I still would have hated it.

 

I still hate the way she was killed though. That was just bad.

[AyChihuahua]

When a character's acceptance/likability improves because they are kept in the background all Season, they should be the logical choice to to "kill-off" when plotting out a death arc.

 

I think Laurel has been the best she has been for a long time in this episode, but a short amount of decentness doesn't make up for 3+ season of failure. I'm glad she was written out since character-wise she didn't gel and lots of things had to be written around her, to make her fit in or even provide screen-time.

Especially when the character whose improvement got her all the way to apathy is played by one of the highest-paid actors on the show. It's a poor return on investment. 

Edited April 10, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[statsgirl]

I can't see recasting Laurel after the pilot because it does take some time for shows and actors to hit the sweet spot.  Not to mention that KC brought a sizable CW fanbase with her.  When the pilot was bought and the show went into production, Laurel may have been problematic but not insolvable.

 

By the time it became apparent  the problems couldn't be solved, they would have been deep into writing s1.  At that point, the only way I could see them viably recasting the character is if KC decided to leave the show because otherwise it would have been too obvious what was going one.

 

The EPs should be thanking their gods that the original Sara actress wasn't available in s2.

[bijoux]

I think back in Season 1 they absolutely wanted to go the route of Oliver/Laurel soulmates. The writing was pushing that. And if some CW exec wouldn`t have said "I like the blond IT girl, more of her", Felicity might not have made it beyond a few appearances so that couple wasn`t a blip on the radar screen back then. 

 

Guggenheim and Kreisberg are both on record saying they loved her when she first appeared.

 

The first season may have started with that plan, but no one can convince me they weren't poisoning that well on purpose by 1x21 at the latest. This is the episode that had Oliver tell Laurel that he just wants her to be happy and that's what he's always wanted, while Ollie is telling Sara to circle around the block until Laurel leaves. It's in the same damn episode, it's not an accident. Also, Ollie was the worst. I wouldn't mind a filler what-if episode with Ollie never becoming Oliver. What a trainwreck that would have been. 

The EPs should be thanking their gods that the original Sara actress wasn't available in s2.

Is it certain that it was just an availability issue? Because I don't really see that Sara becoming the Canary.

[Starfish35]

Just got back from my trip and catching up on everything. I'm sure everything I could have said has been said already, but here's a few thoughts.

I had a few days between when it aired and when I got a chance to watch it to (sort of) deal with my irritation with how it was all handled. I really did want her to go out in a big blaze of glory, not like this. Not helpless, not as punishment for her father. Not fridged. *sigh* I didn't like Laurel at all, but I didn't want another fridging. I wanted her death to be about her.

I think maybe, though, it was done this way because they really really wanted that final Lauriver discussion, and Laurel going out in a big blaze of glory doesn't really allow for that. I don't know. I'm just tired, and annoyed right now.

My biggest question after watching was....why did they put the idol back together in the first place? That seems like an extraordinarily stupid thing to do, even for this crew.

It also reminded me of how irritated I am about how they dealt with Thea's bloodlust storyline. I remember how intrigued I was about Damien's reaction to Thea, and then they just threw that away in service of another Malcolm/LoA storyline.

I'm also irritated that they left it open-ended enough that there's still room to believe she isn't dead. I mean, I believe she's dead, and I'm sure the next episode will resolve that, but....still.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Starfish35

[statsgirl]

It will always be beyond me, unless they explain on-screen, why they put the idol together.  Even if they did hide the magic stone, it must have taken hours and hours to do.  I guess Laurel is the only one who has a day job but it was still an enormous task time-wise for the rest.

 

 

It also reminded me of how irritated I am about how they dealt with Thea's bloodlust storyline. I remember how intrigued I was about Damien's reaction to Thea, and then they just threw that away in service of another Malcolm/LoA storyline.

It's surprising how many stillborn plotlines end up like that.

 

 

Is it certain that it was just an availability issue? Because I don't really see that Sara becoming the Canary.

They said in s2 that the original actress was unavailable and that why CL was hired but who can really believe them.  I do think that when they cast her they never thought they would need a Sara Canary.

[Sakura12]

We know that Sara being the Canary wasn't the original plan. I wonder if seeing what CL could do made them change their minds? Her skills is what made them want to introduce the Canary in Black. 

 

The bloodlust plot for both Thea and Sara seemed interesting, then it was dropped until they were both magically cured. 

Edited April 10, 2016 by Sakura12

[nksarmi]

We know that Sara being the Canary wasn't the original plan. I wonder if seeing what CL could do made them change their minds? Her skills is what made them want to introduce the Canary in Black. 

 

The bloodlust plot for both Thea and Sara seemed interesting, then it was dropped until they were both magically cured. 

 

Well Sara seems to have to deal with it a little still on LoT - I was sort of hoping they'd both end up so bad that ultimately killing Malcolm would cure them both since he drugged Thea to kill Sara thus he was responsible and he took on the mantle of Ra's al Ghul thus Thea's bloodlust really should have been sated with his death.  And you know it would have been fun to watch the two of them kill him together.  But alas....

[Starfish35]

I think CL was probably cast after they changed plans for Sara, probably as a response to how poorly Laurel was received in season one.

[BkWurm1]

You know the more I think about the episode the more I am confused by it. Like when Laurel came out of the surgery. Why were Team Arrow not happy and relieved she is alive and breathing? Why were they acting all sad like she was going to die? Why was Laurel talking like she was going to die? If felt like we missed some scenes. 

 

See all of this confusion would not have happen if they had made the scene with the doctor a bit longer by having her tell Team Arrow that their friend is still in critical condition and to be careful when talking to her. 

 

The whole hospital scenes was telegraphed weirdly and caused lots of confusion. 

KC has said that she was channeling the very real goodbye that was happening with her and the show into that final scene with everyone (and Oliver) and perhaps the rest of the cast was doing something similar.  We know they said that stuff came out in the goodbyes to CH.  That's the real reason probably but while I watched, I interpreted it as everyone still shaky and scared over the close call she'd had and feeling very emotional. 

 

I think it's turned out to be a mistake to introduce him so early, BUT, it's not a mistake that was obvious ahead of time (I'm looking at YOU, BMD, and YOU, failure to chem test planned romantic lead actors!) so I'm giving them a pass for the moment.

 

Also, if I were a supervillain who could freeze my enemies, I'd definitely reel off a few bon mots, but I'm evil like that.

I think the error was not explaining why he kept disappearing or didn't bother to finish them off.  The best explanation we had was the "truce" after Anahrky but DD not coming after them harder or sooner even before that didn't make sense.  Same thing over why DD didn't seek his revenge over Lance's "betrayal" sooner.  It was like he wasn't interested in them anymore until they came after him again.  Plus we have no clue what's going on with HIVE.  Don't understand what the Ghosts wanted.  Don't really understand what the Ghosts are.  Really, except for DD being evil, having magic and chewing scenery, we don't know much at all about who the Team is fighting let alone why.  I think that is the bigger mistake.   

 

And her death was written weirdly for me. There was backstory there with Darkh making good on his threat but hm. Also, waving a shipping flag for Olicity and bring up the "you are the love of my life but I know I`m not the love of yours" wasn`t a very befitting ending. At least make the death about the character in question and not have her comment on how apparently she was a footnote for the lead. That did make me feel bad for her.  

I think the shipping for Olicity was an accidental by product.   They decided that Laurel could say Oliver is the love of her life but they wanted to make sure that no one thought Laurel was still actually thinking she was his, so she acknowledges that he found Felicity and had they not been broken up, that would have been the end of it, but since oops, they were broken up, she had to explain why she's still referencing his ex in a conversation about loves of a lifetime.  Thus she explains her thinking that Oliver and Felicity would someday find their way back to each other (which was her way of telling Oliver she wants him to be happy).  So basically in order to say the one thing, she had to seemingly promote Olicity. 

[KirkB]

Though I doubt the show will say anything of the sort, if I absolutely have to I could fanwank the idea that they didn't put the idol back together but it's own magic made it reassemble itself and they did the best they could to prevent it from being used again by taking one piece away. That doesn't, however, explain why they were keeping it in an easily accessible glass display case in the lair.

[dtissagirl]

I think post- breakup Oliver has been living in the Arrow bunker, and when everyone else goes out because they have actual lives, he gets really really bored, and so he solves puzzles. One thing led to another.

[doesntworkonwood]

I think post- breakup Oliver has been living in the Arrow bunker, and when everyone else goes out because they have actual lives, he gets really really bored, and so he solves puzzles. One thing led to another.

That and scrolling through Felicity's Facebook page. 

[AyChihuahua]

That and scrolling through Felicity's Facebook page. 

"Please don't change your relationship status; please don't change your relationship status."

[kismet]

Personally in addition to the activities suggested above, I think he is also making mixed tapes while he browses through photo albums.

Edited April 11, 2016 by kismet

[TwistedandBored]

KC has said that she was channeling the very real goodbye that was happening with her and the show into that final scene with everyone (and Oliver) and perhaps the rest of the cast was doing something similar.  We know they said that stuff came out in the goodbyes to CH.  That's the real reason probably but while I watched, I interpreted it as everyone still shaky and scared over the close call she'd had and feeling very emotional. 

 

I think this was one directors should have stepped up and done the episode right. The whole thing felt off and made me care less. 

[Password]

Every time I see TA broken up about Laurel dying I keep thinking "agh couldn't we have skipped ahead 3 months where everyone is more emotionally stable so I don't have to sit through more Lance drama?".

Her death was meant to solve this problem. #FeelBadButSeriously

[AyChihuahua]

Every time I see TA broken up about Laurel dying I keep thinking "agh couldn't we have skipped ahead 3 months where everyone is more emotionally stable so I don't have to sit through more Lance drama?".

Her death was meant to solve this problem. #FeelBadButSeriously

I don't even feel bad. Her death did absolutely nothing for me. The episode was so dumb that I wasn't even sad for her loved ones. Just move past it, show. The remaining actors already have.

Edited April 11, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[Password]

It's shocking how little I care that Laurel is dead. I'm pretty much "oh...moving on swiftly."

[wonderwall]

It's shocking how little I care that Laurel is dead. I'm pretty much "oh...moving on swiftly."

For me I always didn't give a crap about LLs death. All I care about is everything that comes afterwards. 

[catrox14]

From the media thread.

Well it was replanted, then stomped to death and never watered.    I know this show makes us paranoid (seriously) but Oliver gave nothing during that scene. I think they're very done.

 

 

I think these writers know exactly what they are doing. I think if they didn't want the audience to think about Lauriver they would never have included that part.  

 

All Laurel had to say when looking at the picture was "Remember when our lives were so simple and love was so simple? I used to be so in love with you....I still love you in many ways. I'm glad you found Felicity..I hope you find her again. I wish I could find Tommy again." It acknowledges their past, their present and lays out the future that Laurel and Oliver are DUNZO and that Laurel no longer sees him as the love of her life.

 

But they didn't. They went the OPPOSITE. They wrote "eternal" kinds of words with ' love of lives".

 

If some viewers think Laurel is only mostly dead and want a GA/BC pairing that gives them hope (it's mean but there it is). Oliver's silence could be interpreted as him just being shocked that Laurel still loves him..when he thought she didn't...and all Oliver ever needed to know was that Laurel never stopped loving him and somehow they can be together again.

[AyChihuahua]

I didn't expect to care, and then somebody here brought up Joyce's death on BtVS. I didn't care for Joyce, but that episode killed me bc of everyone else, so I thought that was a great point. This did nothing for me. Maybe the next episode with the immediate aftermath would have, but I think the wait bw the death and the aftermath will kill even that. At this point I hope everyone, including Lance, is all "Laurel who?" by 4.20.

Edited April 11, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[catrox14]

I didn't expect to care, and then somebody here brought up Joyce's death on BtVS. I didn't care for Joyce, but that episode killed me bc of everyone else, so I thought that was a great point. This did nothing for me. Maybe the next episode with the immediate aftermath would have, but I think the wait bw the death and the aftermath will kill even that. At this point I hope everyone, including Lance, is all "Laurel who?" by 4.20.

 

 

I think Laurel will be thought of more in death than in life. She'll be like Tommy was for Oliver in s1. But instead of it being the no-kill thing...it will be 'For Laurel' that they go after Malcolm and DD with all they have.

[Midnight Lullaby]

From the media thread.

 

 

I think these writers know exactly what they are doing. I think if they didn't want the audience to think about Lauriver they would never have included that part.  

 

All Laurel had to say when looking at the picture was "Remember when our lives were so simple and love was so simple? I used to be so in love with you....I still love you in many ways. I'm glad you found Felicity..I hope you find her again. I wish I could find Tommy again." It acknowledges their past, their present and lays out the future that Laurel and Oliver are DUNZO and that Laurel no longer sees him as the love of her life.

 

But they didn't. They went the OPPOSITE. They wrote "eternal" kinds of words with ' love of lives".

 

If some viewers think Laurel is only mostly dead and want a GA/BC pairing that gives them hope (it's mean but there it is). Oliver's silence could be interpreted as him just being shocked that Laurel still loves him..when he thought she didn't...and all Oliver ever needed to know was that Laurel never stopped loving him and somehow they can be together again.

The episode was made to lead to Laurel's death, to give her and her story on the show closure. At the end they or KC, who knows, decided to humiliate her enough to present her disastrous and now one sided love story with Oliver as the most significant thing for her.

She told him he is the love of her life but she isn't the love of his. It takes two people to be in a relationship and one of them is in love with someone else who is presented as "the love of his life". When she told him her piece Oliver's answer was asking her why she was telling him this with a slightly terrified face. I don't see how that can be seen as promising.

She didn't talk about Tommy because she never really cared about him, not that I doubted that seeing the way she treated him in S1.

Most of all they didn't end the episode with Laurel mostly dead. She is dead. They called time of death. So the person who was never able to move on is dead and the other will keep trying to get back together with the love of his life as he was doing before Laurel's death. He didn't care about Laurel when she was available and alive, why would he care about her now that she is dead?

[looptab]

Reflecting back on the idol being put back together, the utter stupidity of it, and of Diggle going around with a sign saying "I have the missing piece". What was Andy going to do, assuming Dig had kept his mouth shut? 

[catrox14]

The episode was made to lead to Laurel's death, to give her and her story on the show closure. At the end they or KC, who knows, decided to humiliate her enough to present her disastrous and now one sided love story with Oliver as the most significant thing for her.

She told him he is the love of her life but she isn't the love of his. It takes two people to be in a relationship and one of them is in love with someone else who is presented as "the love of his life". When she told him her piece Oliver's answer was asking her why she was telling him this with a slightly terrified face. I don't see how that can be seen as promising.

She didn't talk about Tommy because she never really cared about him, not that I doubted that seeing the way she treated him in S1.

Most of all they didn't end the episode with Laurel mostly dead. She is dead. They called time of death. So the person who was never able to move on is dead and the other will keep trying to get back together with the love of his life as he was doing before Laurel's death. He didn't care about Laurel when she was available and alive, why would he care about her now that she is dead?

 

Oliver didn't have to reciprocate anything for a seed to be planted for those that ship Lauriver and think she is not really most sincerely dead, and who want a GA/BC relationship because comics.

[ComicFan777]

It's funny how clearly it was one-sided.  The only way the writers could have made it more obvious is, instead of Oliver's silence:
Felicity: We love you.
Thea: We love you.
Diggle: We love you.
Oliver: They love you.

[AyChihuahua]

Reflecting back on the idol being put back together, the utter stupidity of it, and of Diggle going around with a sign saying "I have the missing piece". What was Andy going to do, assuming Dig had kept his mouth shut? 

Threaten his loved ones, maybe? Use an evil idol detector?

 

In-show, I really wish there was SOMETHING, even something dumb, about reassembling it. Here's a really easy fix...they still had the pieces, minus one that was separated out, and MM took the PIECES and did the jigsaw puzzle work himself. Same outcome without making all of TA, minus Felicity, look like morons.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Oliver didn't have to reciprocate anything for a seed to be planted for those that ship Lauriver and think she is not really most sincerely dead, and who want a GA/BC relationship because comics.

If such people do exist then there's really nothing to be done to help them, LOL. It defies any logic that a declared dead character and the man who has never told her "I love you" will end up together. Maybe they'll believe it when the show will end without her appearing again. Or not. I doubt anyone cares anyway.

[AyChihuahua]

It's funny how clearly it was one-sided.  The only way the writers could have made it more obvious is, instead of Oliver's silence:

Felicity: We love you.

Thea: We love you.

Diggle: We love you.

Oliver: They love you.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I guess the spec about that scene leading back towards L/O is wrapped up with spec about her not being really dead, and I'm just not going there. I'm still exhausted by the spec over the last few months re whether Laurel was in the grave or not, and some people will never believe she's not coming back, and I just can't do that again. I personally am convinced she's really gone, for good, in any possible iteration of the character beyond AT MOST a flashback or other one-off, and I personally don't think it would matter if she did return bc L/O is dead and buried and more rotten than Sara was, but either way, I cannot engage in that discussion again.

[catrox14]

If such people do exist then there's really nothing to be done to help them, LOL. It defies any logic that a declared dead character and the man who has never told her "I love you" will end up together. Maybe they'll believe it when the show will end without her appearing again. Or not. I doubt anyone cares anyway.

 

I guess the spec about that scene leading back towards L/O is wrapped up with spec about her not being really dead, and I'm just not going there. I'm still exhausted by the spec over the last few months re whether Laurel was in the grave or not, and some people will never believe she's not coming back, and I just can't do that again. I personally am convinced she's really gone, for good, in any possible iteration of the character beyond AT MOST a flashback or other one-off, and I personally don't think it would matter if she did return bc L/O is dead and buried and more rotten than Sara was, but either way, I cannot engage in that discussion again.

 

 

Laurel being declared dead by Katie Cassidy, the showrunners and every one else in no way precludes the show from bringing her back. Remember Malcolm Merlyn was declared dead too as was Sara.  

 

I'm not saying I endorse this school of thought but I acknowledge it exists.

Edited April 11, 2016 by catrox14

[kismet]

It's funny how clearly it was one-sided.  The only way the writers could have made it more obvious is, instead of Oliver's silence:

Felicity: We love you.

Thea: We love you.

Diggle: We love you.

Oliver: They love you.

Deleted Dialogue Tease :)

 

The show made it pretty clear where they stood on the reality of the romantic situation.

 

Oliver loves Felicity.

Felicity loves Oliver.

Laurel loves Oliver.

Oliver remains adamant about never declaring anything remotely close to love for LL even when she just nearly died.

 

O/F get shout outs from just about every character & villain on the show.

O/F will most likely get back together when TV edict & tradition allows it.

LL will get a lovely funeral & a handful of flashbacks during her last episode.

 

People are permitted to watch a show anyway they want to. Some people may hold out hope for the impossible, but its their right to do that. The show has made it pretty clear which horse they chose. I think they threw some crumbs to the LL side in the last few weeks in closing up her story. But I don't think they ever switched horses, just wanted to have their cake & eat it too, by playing up LL. The show's truth & Oliver's truth in these relationships are pretty much the same.

 

I don't understand the hows or whys LL still loved OQ, but the fact is that she did, that was her truth. OQ did not reciprocate and that is a known fact & his truth. But LL will not be the first or last character to die with a broken heart from an unrequited love. And people who loved her character will probably always support her truth even if it doesn't match up with the reality of the situation. Literature, TV/film, music & plays are filled with these characters who love someone long after that person has stopped loving them or never loved them at all. And to some audience members this garners the character sympathy & support. LL just joins a long line of broken hearted characters.

Edited April 11, 2016 by kismet

[Midnight Lullaby]

Laurel being declared dead by Katie Cassidy, the showrunners and every one else in no way precludes the show from bringing her back. Remember Malcolm Merlyn was declared dead too as was Sara.  

 

I'm not saying I endorse this school of thought but I acknowledge it exists.

What about her getting fired? LOL. Sorry but this conversation is just going in circles. If people believed she was coming back and they'll have their BC/GA couple there wouldn't be so much hate around. Then sure, someone will always doubt it but as I said w/e, I don't care and I doubt the EPs care either.

[that one guy]

I don't understand how anyone watched the pilot and didn't reject the canon pairing of Laurel and Oliver right from the start.  I'm trying not to break the rules of this board or be rude but I sincerely do not understand how the idea of Lauriver even survived the first episode. I would have thought the idea that he banged her sister would have put anyone invested in that couple in a rage and they would have never watched another episode.

 

I know I sure as hell scratched them off my list of "ships" from that moment on.  I mean seriously, I thought Diggle dating his brother's wife was gross in season one as well.  There are just some lines you don't cross and for me - siblings is a big one.

 

So while I too did not like that they never gave Laurel a martial arts background, had her take up the Black Canary mantle by killing off an excellent character and then making her so inept at it, had her join Oliver's team against his wishes, and kind of force feed me the idea that he ever accepted her when it sure as hell seemed to me that he never wanted her around....and then had her die in such a bad way while confessing her love for him - yes it's a major ew.  I can see why people do not like this portrayal of Black Canary.

 

BUT the writing was on the wall in the very first episode that there was not going to be a canonical pairing of GA/BC on this show if that BC was Laurel.

By season two it was also obvious that Laurel as BC was going to be a shadow of Sara's Canary and not resemble the comic book character in any way.

So it hardly seems to me that her death should be the thing that makes people outraged at how they showed BC in the show - they messed that up years ago, perhaps from the moment KC was cast. 

 

Personally, I think the only thing the writers could have done was writer her out better than this - they couldn't fix what they screwed up from the moment of the pilot.

I had forgotten about Diggle dating his brother's wife. The subsequent discovery that his brother was not dead certainly puts a different spin on things. 

 

As for BC - the casting was bad, the history of Oliver cheating on her with her sister was bad, the whole thing was a disaster. I still hold out a bit of hope for Sara returning to the BC role, but honestly I don't hold out much hope for the show anymore, I think the whole thing is just silly. It's the granddaddy of the DCTV verse, but it's not nearly as entertaining as the Flash or Supergirl at this point. Speaking of Supergirl, the other week when they showed Chyler Leigh in jail with long hair in a flashback, I realized that she would have been a much better Black Canary than KC. I want to stop watching this show, but I can't. With the return of baseball season, Orphan Black, Game of Thrones and 12 Monkeys I question whether I should lose any more sleep trying to stay caught up with Oliver Queen.

[NumberCruncher]

Agreed. I doubt we'll ever get an official confirmation that yes, KC was fired, but unlike the situation with Roy/Colton, we have both the EPs and the actor confirming she's gone. I don't think they're trying to be deceptive in this case.

[catrox14]

Agreed. I doubt we'll ever get an official confirmation that yes, KC was fired, but unlike the situation with Roy/Colton, we have both the EPs and the actor confirming she's gone. I don't think they're trying to be deceptive in this case.

 

True enough

[Bort]

Hey all, the conversation has gone circular. Please agree to disagree and move on.

[statsgirl]

Though I doubt the show will say anything of the sort, if I absolutely have to I could fanwank the idea that they didn't put the idol back together but it's own magic made it reassemble itself and they did the best they could to prevent it from being used again by taking one piece away. That doesn't, however, explain why they were keeping it in an easily accessible glass display case in the lair.

He has named it 'Wilson' and he's using it to work through his issues.  That's why it deserves its own glass case.

[BkWurm1]

He has named it 'Wilson' and he's using it to work through his issues.  That's why it deserves its own glass case.

If they look under his mattress they will find a pair of glasses and a blond wig. 

 

Quentin has learned to announce when he's coming into the bunker VERY loudly. 

[catrox14]

Quentin Lance: The Bald Canary

[La Dee Da]

I think post- breakup Oliver has been living in the Arrow bunker, and when everyone else goes out because they have actual lives, he gets really really bored, and so he solves puzzles. One thing led to another.

He would be way more patient than I am - if a puzzle doesn't have a border to start from, I'm all "forget this!" Or possibly mashing things into place.

I am sad though that, because Oliver is reverting to past coping mechanisms, we're not getting him mastercheffing his way through a Julia Child cookbook in order to sublimate his feelings. He could have made a fancy cake for each time the team showed up for training. :'(

[kismet]

He has named it 'Wilson' and he's using it to work through his issues.  That's why it deserves its own glass case.

I'm not even joking, there is a part of me that expects a Volleyball to come up in the flashbacks as OQ's friend/ frenemy before the series is done. I know SA's con reference to a  Wilson was probably for his LoT episode. But still OQ alone on an island with a ball as his only friend it just too easy an image to pass up. You know he'll probably have to start talking to some inanimate object by the time this whole thing is over.

 

Quentin Lance: The Bald Canary

I wouldn't mind seeing PB in some leathers fighting crime in the streets. Plus he looks good on a bike.

[BkWurm1]

I'm not even joking, there is a part of me that expects a Volleyball to come up in the flashbacks as OQ's friend/ frenemy before the series is done. I know SA's con reference to a  Wilson was probably for his LoT episode. But still OQ alone on an island with a ball as his only friend it just too easy an image to pass up. You know he'll probably have to start talking to some inanimate object by the time this whole thing is over.

 

Isn't that what Poppy has been?

[calliope1975]

Isn't that what Poppy has been?

 

If you told me #Poppy was 100% a figment of Oliver's imagination, I would totally believe you. 

[Password]

If you told me #Poppy was 100% a figment of Oliver's imagination, I would totally believe you.

I need this.