S04.E04: Chloramphenicol

[magemaud]

2) Martha is SO SMART to come up with that "married man" line. Brilliant. (And more true than she knows!)

Martha wasn't lying when she told Agent Alderholt (why aren't they on a first name basis?) that she was in a relationship with a "married man." As far as she knows Clark IS married--to her!

edited to add: Gabriel's apartment has to be one of the most depressing sets I've ever seen on television.

Edited again to add: I don't think finding a wedding ring in a single woman's apartment should raise any Red Flags (sorry.) I have my mother's rings in my jewelry box. And I don't think it's unusual for a woman to have a prop ring to wear in a situation when she doesn't want male attention.

Edited April 9, 2016 by magemaud

[Hecate7]

For sake of perspective, it should be noted that the Soviet regime murdered, by many estimates on the conservative side, 15-20 million of it's own citizens between 1917 and 1991, with larger estimates running as high a 60 million victims. Yes, after Stalin died in 1953, the murder rate fell dramatically, but make no mistake, the regime that Elizabeth and Phillip were working for really doesn't have an American parallel.

When you say that many million citizens were murdered by the Soviet government, are you counting all capital punishment as murder, or just situations like that of Maxim Gorky, who was murdered? Nina's death was shocking, but it was technically not murder. She would have been put to death in any country, including the US, for her actions. I'm not saying this to minimize the horrors of Stalin's regime, but merely to get a better understanding of the terminology and the numbers.

Edited April 9, 2016 by Hecate7

[dr pepper]

Well, i got double swerved. One minute i'm thinking, "a full pardon? and her buddy gets out too? Oleg's father must have called in all the favors!" And the next i'm thinking "execution? of a main character? yeah, this is another dream!"

[millennium]

Nina. *sniffle* It was honest storytelling, struck me as completely realistic for her to get the ending she got, but my heart ached for her. I really hope Annet Mahendru gets more work on other shows, because she's awesome.

 

Didn't she also get killed on the recent X-Files spoof?

 

Thank goodness they finally did it.   I multi-task while watching and the subtitles were too demanding, especially for a storyline that felt as claustrophobic as Nina's cell.    It's too bad she had to die in a sweatshirt.   She always looked nice at the embassy.

[wendyg]

To put the Soviet execution method in context, it's interesting to compare to the British version of execution as recounted in the memoirs of Albert Pierrepoint, Britain's most famous executioner and one of the last couple before the death penalty was terminated in 1964. Pierrepoint carried out hundreds of hangings and was widely regarded as the most efficient (and therefore the best) executioner Britain had. Based on some of his experiences, he eventually came to believe that the death penalty was not a deterrent and campaigned against it. His memoir is very thoughtful and fascinating to read (though some may quail at his discussion of the calculations involved in ensuring that the weight of the drop was exactly right so that death would be instantaneous).

 

*Anyway*, his account of exactly how hangings were carried out indicates (IIRC) that although prisoners were indeed on death row, from the time he entered their specially constructed cell to their death was less than a minute. He would arrive at the prison the day before and make all his preparations and calculations. Like the Russians quoted above, this method was considered to be the most humane, but I think there's also the reality that a professional executioner really gets no benefit from waiting around - the prisoner has been sentenced, there's no appeal (left), and going slower just creates vastly greater opportunities for things to go wrong (prisoner to try to escape, have to be restrained, damage to all and sundry). In this case, what possible benefit would Nina's Russian captors have derived from keeping her a second longer? They've already extracted all the information they're going to be able to get; the longer she's alive the more she costs in food, space, and general risk - she was reckless enough to make that attempt with the letter (did she *want* her husband dead?). I don't think pros in this area have much use for sentimentality.

[AllyB]

He talked about retiring to Odessa, but whether he admits it to himself or not, I don't believe he has any desire to return to the USSR.

Phillip doesn't care where they end up, he just wants to live a normal life with his family. Sure he'd like to stay in America with the big house, the music he enjoys and all the stuff but mainly he'd prefer to stay in America so as not to uproot and confuse the kids. But if he had to go back to Russia, or South America, England, France, Poland, wherever, and he didn't have to be a spy, he'd be content. It's Elizabeth who would find it very hard to go back to Russia. I think she knows on some deep, deep level that Russia isn't what she believes it is. And if she had to move back and look at the reality of daily existence for ordinary Russians, it would destroy her.

Though if the Soviets exfiltrated them they would not be retired. They would be set up training spies about the west. Which would probably be ok as I'm assuming that would be a very, very good job in the USSR and would give you a much more comfortable life than your average Russian. (Though still very meager compared to what they've grown used to.) But looking at real life spies like Morris and Lona Cohen, eventually the KGB would want to put them back in the field. I could see an eventual plan of sending them somewhere like London if Paige and Henry could be trusted to fall in line. Of course, the USSR and the KGB will cease to exist in under a decade, but they could well be pressured/forced into working as SVR agents once that happens. It's not as if they cease to be of use to Russia come 1991.

Edited April 9, 2016 by AllyB

[Bannon]

When you say that many million citizens were murdered by the Soviet government, are you counting all capital punishment as murder, or just situations like that of Maxim Gorky, who was murdered? Nina's death was shocking, but it was technically not murder. She would have been put to death in any country, including the US, for her actions. I'm not saying this to minimize the horrors of Stalin's regime, but merely to get a better understanding of the terminology and the numbers.

I wasn't counting Nina's type of death. It should be noted, however, that very, very, few American citizens have been executed as actual traitors, although life in solitary, ala Robert Hanssen, is something just short of execution,if it is short at all. Of course, during Stalin's reign, an offhand remark could get you killed for supposedy traitorous behavior. Millions of the murders, of course, were for the "crime" of being a middle class farmer (kulak), or being a "wrecker", or some such nonsense. Yeah, the political murders greatly tailed off after Stalin's death, but the Soviet State continued to do stuff like call political dissent a mental illness, well into the 1980s, locking dissenters up in mental hospitals, drugging them against their will, for years.

 

The government of the United States has done awful, awful, things, but there is a tendency to imply, perhaps unintentionally, a false equivalency between the nature of the Soviet State, and the government of the United States, during the Cold War period. 

[Bannon]

Phillip doesn't care where they end up, he just wants to live a normal life with his family. Sure he'd like to stay in America with the big house, the music he enjoys and all the stuff but mainly he'd prefer to stay in America so as not to uproot and confuse the kids. But if he had to go back to Russia, or South America, England, France, Poland, wherever, and he didn't have to be a spy, he'd be content. It's Elizabeth who would find it very hard to go back to Russia. I think she knows on some deep, deep level that Russia isn't what she believes it is. And if she had to move back and look at the reality of daily existence for ordinary Russians, it would destroy her.

Though if the Soviets exfiltrated them they would not be retired. They would be set up training spies about the west. Which would probably be ok as I'm assuming that would be a very, very good job in the USSR and would give you a much more comfortable life than your average Russian. (Though still very meager compared to what they've grown used to.) But looking at real life spies like Morris and Lona Cohen, eventually the KGB would want to put them back in the field. I could see an eventual plan of sending them somewhere like London if Paige and Henry could be trusted to fall in line. Of course, the USSR and the KGB will cease to exist in under a decade, but they could well be pressured/forced into working as SVR agents once that happens. It's not as if they cease to be of use to Russia come 1991.

Indeed. It is interesting to note that Robert Hanssen, among the worst traitors in American history, went to work for the Russian government, following a few years interlude when the Soviet State collapsed.

[babyPhat279]

 

I love how the show gives us grim little laughs now and then. Outside the restaurant where Aderholt took Martha there was a fallout shelter sign on the wall. Heh!

 

The funnier (or sadder?) aspect of this is that they may have had nothing to do with it - the show films a lot in Queens and many of our buildings never took down those signs. I always joke that no one told us the Cold War ended. Mostly these are just basements with laundry machines.

[sistermagpie]

She would have been put to death in any country, including the US, for her actions.

 

 

This is why I can't get onboard with theories that Oleg is now on the fast track to defection because of Nina. Whether or not she would have been executed in the US (like I don't see Martha facing execution even if she's caught) Oleg would understand that her crime was really serious. Costa Ronin even said he thought it was difficult for Oleg to help her to begin with because of that. So it's not like he'd feel a big shock of betrayal at the idea of her being executed for her crimes as if she was an innocent person killed for nefarious purposes. Oleg it seems has very strong beliefs of his own about the USSR. He's the son of a powerful family who's been raised to be patriotic. He's not just some guy who'd look around at the US and think it's a much better deal (and his family is wealthy so he's not as vulnerable to the lifestyle--he's been actively conflicted about his relative comfort his whole life). People have also suggested that his brother's death would play into him feeling betrayed by the country. I see the logic in that, but it's just as likely he would respect his brother's commitment to his country and feel all the more need to honor it by being loyal.

 

Basically, Nina was disloyal and was executed. His brother was loyal and killed in battle. Oleg himself is compromised thanks to his deals with Stan. Stan's already focused on his brother as a way to earn his trust. But Stan's also I think got a way to go in understanding exactly how to work that. Especially if Oleg holds Stan responsible for Nina's death as well. I'm not so sure Stan likes Oleg at all--he didn't need to call him as asshole when talking about him to Gaad. Nina was easy for him to love since as far as he knew she was working for him and desperate to be American. She was a victim of the Soviets. Oleg is one of them. Oleg is definitely in a vulnerable state right now, just as Stan was when Oleg was working him. But Nina described them both as choosing their country over her (though I think that really applies more to Stan than Oleg).

[Mindymoo]

Yeah, the political murders greatly tailed off after Stalin's death, but the Soviet State continued to do stuff like call political dissent a mental illness, well into the 1980s, locking dissenters up in mental hospitals, drugging them against their will, for years.

Nearly all of my dad's side of the family still lives in Poland, and that happened to one of my cousins in Communist Poland. She was a dissenter, and she was drugged, given ECT and forced into mental hospitals. She survived it, and lived with us for a short time when I was young as our nanny. It was sad, because she was paranoid of electrical sockets because of the ECT and would sweep the carpet with a broom.

 

Back on-topic: this episode did give me chills. Nina's death was a long time coming, but it still ripped my heart out. I loved and sympathized with her character so much. For such a petty crime, she was turned into a double, then triple agent, and it led to her execution. Even though Stan is on our side, I will never be able to root for him as a character because of what he did to Nina. And it's weird, since I'm a full-blooded Pole, that I feel this way about a Russian character. I'll just say, as a generalization, that a lot of Poles do not think kindly of Russians in any way. But Nina broke my heart.

[Clanstarling]

This was a good episode for the actors. Good stuff all around. (Although casting could've tried just a little bit harder to find an actress who looked more like a young Keri Russell. That girl looked nothing like Felicity.)

My primary complaint was that they could have cast someone whose nose was of a similar shape and size. That's what stood out to me.

I had been semi-spoiled that someone would die during this episode, but I expected Martha (or even Paige -for shock value). Nina's death didn't seem particularly shocking to me.

Of course, I watched The Americans on DVR not long after I'd finished watching another show where one of the leads was killed off - so maybe I spent all my shock and upset over that one.

[shopper73]

Nina wasn't really providing them with much information. Her whole plotline this season was that she was no longer doing what people told her to do. She wasn't working Anton like she was Evi. We saw, in fact, that she was hiding that Anton had hit a wall in his research. Add to that that she was defying them, and she was expendable.

Paige isn't a traitor. Paige is the most important thing to two spies who are providing them with insanely valuable intel. Plus, if they want the second-generation illegals program, she's basically perfect. She's smart, left-leaning, passionate, takes risks and can lie well enough to fool and FBI agent. Plus she has impeccable credentials that would stand up to any background check. It's worth it for them to keep her alive and P and E happy. Honestly, if they do kill Paige, Philip almost certainly defects and Elizabeth might too.

To me, the interesting part of all this is for the first time Elizabeth is putting something above the cause. For most of the show, she tried to have it both ways, assumed she could raise her kids to be loyal to the USSR. Now she's seeing that probably won't happen and this season is about her having to choose one or the other. Look at what she said to Philip - if she dies he has permission to defect. Right now she still thinks it will all work out (she can turn Pastor Tim and the spying is something she can joke with Paige about), but she's going to find out it's not.

Philip is in a way more settled. He knows he wants Elizabeth and his family above his job or his ideology. Elizabeth's struggling with that and it's really her story now.

I'm confused about where they're going with Oleg. I don't think he had this mad, passionate love for Nina that would cause him to be a double agent in her honor. So how will his death affect her?

ETA Umbelina Philip talked about defecting in the early episodes. Elizabeth accused him of getting soft and falling in love with American luxuries. Now I think his goals are more whatever keeps the family together, whether in the US or Russia (his discussion about retiring to Odessa). It would actually be quite doable to defect. Zinadia was treated as a hero and she was just some mid-level bureaucrat. P and E could supply the CIA with enough intel and names to make them extremely valuable.

[shopper73]

The fact that Paige outed her parents to US citizens makes her a traitor to the Soviet cause, even though she didn't have that intent. I agree that P and E are very valuable to the Center, but we have seen that the Center and the FBI are not very protective of their people.

Also I don't think the Center would value left leaning views! They don't want rebels, they want passionate people who follow orders! Now P and E have pushed the envelope in that department, but things could change for them at any moment.

Nina was in prison, but her thoughts were free, and that was her salvation in the end. I think the other characters are also in prison, and I love this show, it is so compelling to see how they will break free.

[DrSpaceman73]

I really don't care about the glanders storyline, but also wanted to note that the reason they all survived exposure was that they all had been vaccinated in advance of coming into contact with the vial, in the first episode.  So, I don't know what William was adding, but supposedly, they had some kind of inoculation in advance. 

 

I suppose. It's playing kind of loose and both sides of the story though by presenting it this way.

they want us to buy into how incredibly dangerous this is and present the story in that fashion. But as it turns out, don't worry, they were vaccinated, so there really wasn't much danger to them as it turns out at any time. I realize they didn't know if the vaccine might work, but still, in retrospect, they weren't facing the danger they thought was there.

[Darren]

Paige was born and raised an American. And she's never sworn allegiance to the Soviet cause. So, technically, she cannot be considered a traitor. The Soviets might see her as a potential threat, and as an enemy, but by definition - not a traitor.

[sistermagpie]

The fact that Paige outed her parents to US citizens makes her a traitor to the Soviet cause, even though she didn't have that intent. I agree that P and E are very valuable to the Center, but we have seen that the Center and the FBI are not very protective of their people.

 

 

By that logic Stan is a traitor to the Soviet cause--along with almost every American. You can't betray a cause that was never your cause.

 

Regarding how protective the Centre is of its people, it depends on what you mean. The Centre is obviously ready to make huge demands of P&E but they sill value them. There's no reason for them to decide to throw them away by murdering their daughter.

 

Also I don't think the Center would value left leaning views!

 

 

I think they just meant that Paige's left-leaning views would make her more open to recruitment than right-leaning views would. What they really value in Paige is her American citizenship. They don't care about her personality beyond that. She could be a total capitalist who thought they should be a democracy and they wouldn't care as long as she was passing them info.

[babyPhat279]

What would make the center drop Paige, for good? What if (and it's extreme) Paige broke the law after she turned 18? With a record it would be impossible to work for the FBI/CIA, right? It would be hard to find a regular job too, but not impossible. Is there anything else she can do to snuff this idea out once she's older and found out exactly what is being planned for her?

[sistermagpie]

What would make the center drop Paige, for good? What if (and it's extreme) Paige broke the law after she turned 18? With a record it would be impossible to work for the FBI/CIA, right? It would be hard to find a regular job too, but not impossible. Is there anything else she can do to snuff this idea out once she's older and found out exactly what is being planned for her?

 

 

She could also say no. I mean, I've no doubt that on this show she'd be pressured to say yes if they could do that (threatening her parents or Henry or whatever), but they've always claimed that she could say no, just as real kids of Illegals could say no. Paige could simply not apply for a job that had any interest to them. They'd be getting onto really shaky grounds trying to force her to dedicate her whole life to this cause unwillingly. The whole point is supposed to be that she'd do it willingly because who her parents are would make her more open to that.

[TimWil]

I liked the young actress who played Nadezhda very much-that scene with her and the mother was quite poignant. However the actress had dark eyes and Keri Russell has striking, light hued blue eyes. I wonder if they asked the young actress if she'd wear contact lenses.

[dr pepper]

Oleg will not defect, or even move away permanently. He has to stay so he can become an Oleg-arch.

[Chaos Theory]

I think this is less about Paige and more about P&E. It's always been about P&E. How they see the world and how the world sees them. I honestly think Elizabeth has shown a great amount of growth and humanity over the last couple seasons. She isn't the same person she was in the pilot or even the first season. A person who follows orders regardless of her own feelings. I think the death of the other spy family in season 2 and the knowledge that their own son killed them hit Elizabeth far more then it showed at first. When told to turn Paige I think her initial reaction was that of a good soldier but now that she sees what the truth has done to Paige I think Elizabeth has changed her opinion on the idea. I thought the scene where she told Philip that if she died to kill Pastor Tim and his wife, blame her and run with the kids is the closest Elizabeth is capable of turning against her own people. She will never directly do it when she is alive but I can see her sacrifice herself to save her family.

[JennyMominFL]

Actually, technically, the USSR would view both children and Soviet citizens based on the fact That the USSR determined citizenship via jus sanguinis’... Citizenship via descent/blood.  While I doubt they would view her as a traitor, they technically could

[shopper73]

Paige was born and raised an American. And she's never sworn allegiance to the Soviet cause. So, technically, she cannot be considered a traitor. The Soviets might see her as a potential threat, and as an enemy, but by definition - not a traitor.

I think the irony is that the Center assumes or sees her as "one of them" and ripe to be groomed as an operative for them, even though she is an American

[Darren]

Actually, technically, the USSR would view both children and Soviet citizens based on the fact That the USSR determined citizenship via jus sanguinis’... Citizenship via descent/blood.  While I doubt they would view her as a traitor, they technically could

Sure. I don't doubt that Paige is a Soviet citizen by birthright. I personally have three citizenships. I'm just saying that based on her personal history, "traitor" is the wrong word. "Enemy", "threat", "potential danger" all work, but not "traitor".

[shopper73]

I think getting caught up in terminology missed the point that Paige could be in danger. She does think and has acted like an American, which does make sense considering her personal history!

It was a big turn in Elizabeth when she yelled at Paige that she was supposed to put her family first, as opposed to her personal moral dilemma. As noted above, Elizabeth is declaring her loyalty to her family now, instead of her "work" for the Center, which is big considering the family was formed just as a cover.

I think it is significant that Phillip tells Martha that he loves her when he and Elizabeth never say it to each other, does he mean it?

I thought it was so funny when Martha said her affair was honest and didn't involve wigs, when it actually did!!

[fastiller]

Oleg will not defect, or even move away permanently. He has to stay so he can become an Oleg-arch.

Marry me.

 

I thought it was so funny when Martha said her affair was honest and didn't involve wigs, when it actually did!!

Not anymore, not since "Clark" took off his wig,

[Dev F]

My primary complaint was that they could have cast someone whose nose was of a similar shape and size. That's what stood out to me.

 

Well, it's the same actress who's played the role since season 1, and nose shape/size is something that can change significantly as a person goes through puberty. It was probably a situation where the showrunners preferred not to recast the role even though the difference in appearance had grown more pronounced -- a decision that was probably based not only on loyalty to the actress and/or a desire to maintain continuity but also on the difficulty of casting a child with sufficient acting chops who also speaks Russian.

 

(In some ways it's similar to the situation on Mad Men, where they kept the same actor as Don Draper's young self across the entire series, even though by the end he'd been smacked super hard by puberty and yet was playing scenes that took place before earlier flashbacks he'd portrayed when he was ten.)

[kay1864]

Random question...as usual the show was rated TV-MA, but this ep had not just the usual language and violence, but "sexual situations".  I must have missed it, unless it was Elizabeth being all feverish :P

[jjj]

Random question...as usual the show was rated TV-MA, but this ep had not just the usual language and violence, but "sexual situations".  I must have missed it, unless it was Elizabeth being all feverish :P

Kama Sutra?  (only pictures, but still, perhaps worth a warning?)

[Clanstarling]

Well, it's the same actress who's played the role since season 1, and nose shape/size is something that can change significantly as a person goes through puberty. It was probably a situation where the showrunners preferred not to recast the role even though the difference in appearance had grown more pronounced -- a decision that was probably based not only on loyalty to the actress and/or a desire to maintain continuity but also on the difficulty of casting a child with sufficient acting chops who also speaks Russian.

 

(In some ways it's similar to the situation on Mad Men, where they kept the same actor as Don Draper's young self across the entire series, even though by the end he'd been smacked super hard by puberty and yet was playing scenes that took place before earlier flashbacks he'd portrayed when he was ten.)

I didn't remember the actress from season 1, and you make a good point about the language chops.

 

As for Mad Men, I find it kind of hilarious that they stuck with that actor but went through 4 Bobby Drapers.

[kay1864]

Kama Sutra?  (only pictures, but still, perhaps worth a warning?)

Ah, right, makes sense.  I guess they were kind of explicit--especially if you paused the DVR and turned your head 180 degrees or so I hear anyway...

Edited April 11, 2016 by kay1864

[jjj]

Ah, right, makes sense.  I guess they were kind of explicit--especially if you paused the DVR and turned your head 180 degrees or so I hear anyway...

I do believe that is one of the positions...

[tennisgurl]

You know whats weird? I have posted a few places around here about the massive TV bloodbath that has been on my screen the last few weeks, with a number of characters (mostly female) being offed left and right. But, of all the deaths, Nina's was probably my "favorite" death, in how it was done, and its impact. It was shocking, brutal, but also powerful, memorable, and sad. Which is how a death on TV is supposed to be. Unlike some other shows, that will remain nameless, where female characters are killed to push forward other (mostly male characters), Nina died because of her story, and her actions. Granted, I am sure her death will affect the story (especially with Oleg), but it was her story, and her death felt like a natural conclusion for her. I will miss Nina a lot, and I hope Annet Mahendru finds work again soon, because I think she is wonderful, but I am not angry. Unlike some OTHER recent deaths, I have no desire to tweet to the creators about how much they suck. With all the complaints going around the internet about the crappy way female characters are treated, I am glad that at least Nina got to go out with some dignity.  

[BW Manilowe]

You know whats weird? I have posted a few places around here about the massive TV bloodbath that has been on my screen the last few weeks, with a number of characters (mostly female) being offed left and right. But, of all the deaths, Nina's was probably my "favorite" death, in how it was done, and its impact. It was shocking, brutal, but also powerful, memorable, and sad. Which is how a death on TV is supposed to be. Unlike some other shows, that will remain nameless, where female characters are killed to push forward other (mostly male characters), Nina died because of her story, and her actions. Granted, I am sure her death will affect the story (especially with Oleg), but it was her story, and her death felt like a natural conclusion for her. I will miss Nina a lot, and I hope Annet Mahendru finds work again soon, because I think she is wonderful, but I am not angry. Unlike some OTHER recent deaths, I have no desire to tweet to the creators about how much they suck. With all the complaints going around the internet about the crappy way female characters are treated, I am glad that at least Nina got to go out with some dignity.

I read yesterday (Monday) Annet has landed a (recurring, I think it is) role in a series called Tyrant, which is or will be on FX.

http://deadline.com/2016/04/fx-tyrant-cast-annet-mahendru-sebastian-roche-amazon-man-in-the-high-castle-1201735557/

[JennyMominFL]

I read yesterday (Monday) Annet has landed a (recurring, I think it is) role in a series called Tyrant, which is or will be on FX.

http://deadline.com/2016/04/fx-tyrant-cast-annet-mahendru-sebastian-roche-amazon-man-in-the-high-castle-1201735557/

 

OH.... So excited. I love Tyrant. Season 3 starts soon. The show is about a family who rules a fiction middle eastern country. The main character is the son of the king, who left his country and became an American Doctor. 20 years later he returns home and stuff happens.. The second season ocusus on an ISIS type uprising. Season 2 is better than season one, but I think Americans fans might like it. It's not as good as the Americans, but it's good

Edited April 12, 2016 by JennyMominFL

[sistermagpie]

I thought it was so funny when Martha said her affair was honest and didn't involve wigs, when it actually did!!

 

 

Not anymore, not since "Clark" took off his wig,

 

 

 

Actually I think he does still wear the wig. He just takes it off when he gets inside. So she mostly sees him with wig hair.

[tennisgurl]

 

I read yesterday (Monday) Annet has landed a (recurring, I think it is) role in a series called Tyrant, which is or will be on FX.

If Annet is going to be on it, I might have to check it out! I watched the first couple of episodes, and I wasn't too impressed, but if its gotten better, maybe Ill give it another look! 

[shopper73]

Far from honest too

[misstwpherecool]

Nina-RIP sniff sniff

 

I'm wondering if Oleg's father expedited or pushed for Nina's execution to distance himself/family from a traitor and/or he lied to Oleg full well knowing Nina would be executed in order for him to stay home for a while anyway. In his mind this also gets rid of a distraction for Oleg so he can pursue his career.

 

And yes this looking like the last season Martha will be in civilian clothing if she's lucky.

[Tetraneutron]

I wonder what will happen to Martha. I don't want her to go to jail because that means the end of her story, and while this show has amazing full-fleshed characters, it doesn't have a deep bench. Also, I don't see how she goes down and Philip doesn't. I think the tension with her is going to come from questioning what Philip does, asking herself why she married him. (Side note, why DID she? The show tried to say she was a lonely spinster desperate for anyone, but we've seen two FBI agents attracted to her). 

 

It was a big turn in Elizabeth when she yelled at Paige that she was supposed to put her family first, as opposed to her personal moral dilemma. As noted above, Elizabeth is declaring her loyalty to her family now, instead of her "work" for the Center, which is big considering the family was formed just as a cover.

As soon as they told Paige the truth, both P and E emphasised that Paige should stay loyal to them as their daughter, not because of ideology. They said "If anyone finds out, we'll go to jail," not "Don't you want to work for the glory of communism?" How much Elizabeth truly means that is the central issue for her character. I thinks she hopes she can ease Paige into it without anyone getting hurt, but Philip and Gabriel know that's not realistic. 

[sistermagpie]

Side note, why DID she? The show tried to say she was a lonely spinster desperate for anyone, but we've seen two FBI agents attracted to her.

 

 

I don't think the show quite tries to say that since as you say, they've showed other people attracted to her. I think she was lonely, and she has insecurities about her looks etc., but she wasn't alone just because she could never get a date, exactly. It was more that the guys she'd been with screwed her over. Clark was a brilliant creation on Philip's part. He's not just the only guy who's attracted to Martha. He's a guy who's created to be perfect for Martha. He's nerdy and upstanding, which corrects the problems she had with guys like Amador, but he's also an animal in bed and offering her a forbidden romance which plays to that wild side. With Clark the excitement was--she thought--contained and under her control. She was the one who encouraged him to bend the rules just as now I think she sees herself as sometimes trying to protect him. 

 

As soon as they told Paige the truth, both P and E emphasised that Paige should stay loyal to them as their daughter, not because of ideology.

 

 

Interesting given that this is basically how they're loyal to her. All of Elizabeth's relationships are with people who are loyal to the cause--except when it comes to her children. Those are the first people she had to love despite them being loyal Americans and she'd continue to love them even if they rejected her cause. She still would prefer them to be with her on this and I think last year saw that as the way to connect with her, but she seems to be seeing things another way.

 

Unlike some other shows, that will remain nameless, where female characters are killed to push forward other (mostly male characters), Nina died because of her story, and her actions.

 

 

The show is really great the way it takes everyone's personal beliefs so seriously and seems to see everyone as ultimately in charge of their own fate through those things. This was something that really struck me about Gregory back in S3. On one hand he was mostly important for being part of a love triangle with Philip. Hew as Elizabeth's ex and he mattered to her. But his death was all about himself and his own decisions--he decided not to go to Moscow and we understood why, he chose to go out the way he did and we understood why. We saw, I think, how he saw his relationship with Elizabeth in ways that weren't completely true but were important to him. In the end he totally had his own story and whenever he's invoked by any of the Jennings (usually Elizabeth or Paige) I'm reminded of how he's not completely captured by those references. He's not just the guy Elizabeth was with before Philip.

 

And I think Nina is the same way, despite all she means to Oleg and Stan (and Anton and Boris and Vasiliy and even Arkady). I think pretty much all the other men saw her more for what she was than Stan, but only Nina truly understood Nina and she was alone in her death.

 

Btw, I saw a review that had an interesting view of Stan--it was more negative than I tend to see him, but there was something to it. It talked about how they thought Stan had been rewarded for thinking of himself and so continued to do so and now really bought into the idea that he was a big hero.

[Haleth]

Poor, poor Nina. That was the saddest thing I've seen on tv in a long time. Annet is so lovely, so delicate looking. I suppose Nina's death will send Oleg back to the US rather than stranding him at home with mom and dad.

I'm kind of ready to have Stan start putting 2 + 2 together.

[shopper73]

Poor, poor Nina. That was the saddest thing I've seen on tv in a long time. Annet is so lovely, so delicate looking. I suppose Nina's death will send Oleg back to the US rather than stranding him at home with mom and dad.

I'm kind of ready to have Stan start putting 2 + 2 together.

I thought Nina looked so child-like at the end with her little sneakers.

[Darren]

I'll tell you one thing, from a story-telling perspective, I doubt they're going to kill off pastor and his wife this week after killing off Nina last week. I think they'll string this out a little longer.

[GreenScreenFX]

From a story telling prospective,.. They should be killing off a character a week.

I love this show... But it's not long for the graveyard... Wrap it up and kill everyone.

[GreenScreenFX]

well.. Filming for the season is wrapped...the show has not been canceled.... Yet. So we know Kerri and Mathew are in for at least another season.

I have a question, even though the season is not over....why did Nina even have a storyline? Why are we supposed to care about ANY of the Jailed Russians? It doesn't seem to mesh with anything.... Other than fbi guy misses her.

[GreenScreenFX]

I can understand if there is a story line ( carefully planned out thesis), but I see it more as a Ret Con ( creating a back story, when a writer realized s/he fucked up).

[Umbelina]

No, I see a possible story, and an important one.  I think it's either spoiler tagged here or in media, or in speculation.

 

The story tying in with Oleg and with Nina's job there could easily be tied in with the

author who told them how Nina would be killed.http://www.amazon.com/Farewell-Greatest-Story-Twentieth-Century-ebook/dp/B004GKNIWM?ie=UTF8&refRID=Q0DHV0SN666Q3HQXQ9BD&ref_=pd_ybh_a_8is the book and Vetrov is the spy that betrayed the division Oleg works for, technology.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Vetrov

Edited April 13, 2016 by Umbelina

[Milburn Stone]

Irlandesa: "I hate seeing people throw up on TV without warning"  

I was having dinner at that moment, so I could have done without it, as well. Last night it was Robert Kardashian, tonight, Elizabeth. Do we really need to see stuff coming out of their mouths to know they are vomiting? Just the noise is good enough for me, thank you.

 

Can we form a lobbying group or something? BARF--Band Against RolFing? There is never a need to show it.