S04.E03: Experimental Prototype City Of Tomorrow

[sistermagpie]

Did Florida secede?  :-)

 

 

LOL! Disneyworld is another country maybe? Oops! Out of state I meant!

 

I don't think it enhances the storytelling to give the audience no reason for Elizabeth's infiltration of Young He's Mary Kay empire.

 

 

I actually do. I mean, there's nothing that makes the story better with us not knowing, but I think they were right to think we don't need to know in order to follow the scenes, so there was no reason to waste screentime on it yet. We know by this point that she's working her for some reason and we'll find out what it is. The important thing here was to just watch the relationship. It kind of fits, actually, since Elizabeth's own main experience of it was of simple fun. She wasn't sneaking off to plant bugs in the house, she was genuinely enjoying her time with the family.

[Tetraneutron]

I was totally laughing at Paige being so indignant about that. "How dare Pastor Tim tell a secret? Only I'm allowed to tell other people's secrets!"

 

Ah, bureaucracy. When Gaad lectured everyone about how six unlogged copies on the Xerox machine jeopardized their entire division, it made me so glad that I don't work somewhere like that. He probably has someone count all the paper clips every night.

Bureaucracy saved Gaad. If the FBI didn't made him keep track of photocopies, no one would have realized that someone made extra ones, which put Stan on Martha's trail again. 

 

Philip and Elizabeth told him that they're just enthusiastic activists, but I don't think he's convinced. His position seems to be that he'll keep Paige's secret only if it turns out her parents are what they say they are - and he's not sure yet if that's the case.

He's still an idiot, of course.

But that's just it - if he thought that Paige were even SORT OF telling the truth, the last thing he'd do would tell her parents. Telling Soviet spies he knows who they are? During the height Reagan-era Cold War paranoia? That would be the absolute last thing he'd do. He put himself and his wife in danger, which he doesn't realize, because he sees this as another confused teenager girl coming to him because she has boy problems. The only reason he's telling them is because he doesn't believe Paige. He thinks she's exaggerating, at best. That they do the normal sign-waving stuff he does, and Paige has blown it out of proportion. 

 

Elizabeth's talking about Russia the way she did, realizing that she couldn't just run and plunk down her American kids there, was really huge.  Like it or not, Elizabeth *is* an American now, not a Russian anymore, and what her kids need has become more important than what she herself might want.  

It's such a huge contrast to the first season, when Elizabeth assumed she could raise her kids to be sympathetic to Russia, to be like her ideologically and culturally. And she was pushing for Paige to be a second-generation spy. Now she realizes that's not going to happen. 

[Blakeston]

But that's just it - if he thought that Paige were even SORT OF telling the truth, the last thing he'd do would tell her parents. Telling Soviet spies he knows who they are? During the height Reagan-era Cold War paranoia? That would be the absolute last thing he'd do. He put himself and his wife in danger, which he doesn't realize, because he sees this as another confused teenager girl coming to him because she has boy problems. The only reason he's telling them is because he doesn't believe Paige. He thinks she's exaggerating, at best. That they do the normal sign-waving stuff he does, and Paige has blown it out of proportion.

But if he doesn't believe her, why tell Elizabeth and Philip that he hasn't made up his mind about whether to keep his mouth shut?

[Chaos Theory]

Now that Elizabeth's mother is dead she really has nowhere else to go. All she has is her family. It's funny I can actually see Young He as someone Elizabeth would really like and want to be friends with. Someone who has not fully assimilated into American culture and yet buys her kids those stupid ugly dolls because she can. That is someone I would think Elizabeth might benefit from knowing. Too bad it's an act but it will be fun to watch anyway because even when it is an act...it isn't.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[sistermagpie]

The only reason he's telling them is because he doesn't believe Paige. He thinks she's exaggerating, at best. That they do the normal sign-waving stuff he does, and Paige has blown it out of proportion.

 

 

He seems to believe her to me. Why else would he be saying "I know what spies do" and saying he has to find out exactly what they do to make sure they weren't hurting anyone? (Not that radical activists can't hurt anyone, of course.) If they were doing sign waving stuff why wouldn't he know about it? And why would they be undercover Americans? It seems like if he really didn't believe Paige he'd have lines that implied that and she'd have picked up on it just like she picked up on his annoyance about her saying he was wrong to tell his wife.

 

Oh, I forgot the other interesting thing--not sure if it means anything but I just noted it--was how Pastor Tim brought up the USSR's record on human rights and said they didn't guard them if people were "religious" and then brought up Jewish dissidents. I thought that was a little off. Anti-antisemitism in the USSR wasn't purely about religion, was it? I would think you could be an atheist in the USSR and still be the target of antisemitism if you were Jewish. Oh, I forgot the other interesting thing--not sure if it means anything but I just noted it--was how Pastor Tim brought up the USSR's record on human rights and said they didn't guard them if people were "religious" and then brought up Jewish dissidents. I thought that was a little off. Anti-antisemitism in the USSR wasn't purely about religion, was it? I would think you could be an atheist in the USSR and still be the target of antisemitism if you were Jewish. It just seemed like it was put in there to maybe lay the groundwork for a religion vs. communism thing, with P&E eventually landing on the Sanctuary Movement to show how they could work together.

Edited March 31, 2016 by sistermagpie

[Uncle Benzene]

I too was wondering "Why in the world would Elizabeth have dreams of moving to Odessa, Texas?!?" I mean, of all places. Heh.

 

Anyway, what am I missing here? Because if they wanted to "work" Pastor Groovyhair, wouldn't the obvious cover story be "We're double-agents"?

 

"Look, we had to tell Paige something. And we were pretty sure she was gonna immediately spill the beans to someone, and we were pretty sure it was probably gonna be you. At least this way, we keep our cover. For the greater good. And we knew you'd come to us, and that we could then tell you the real truth, and you'd be able to handle it. Because you're awesome, Pastor Groovyhair. We know we can trust you. USA! USA! USA! Thing is, surely you understand that there's no way to confirm this. The Feds will just deny our very existence, because that's the way it works, and you'd also be putting yourself, your wife, Paige, and pretty much the whole freakin' nation in danger by pursuing any kind of confirmation. You don't want to give either side any kind of reason to consider you a 'loose end' to be 'taken care of', capisce?"

 

I mean, isn't that the easiest solution (for as long as Groovyhair must continue to breathe, that is)? The one that pretty much explains everything, while shutting down any motivation to investigate further, and providing great motivation to keep his damn mouth shut? The one that hits all the notes, is perfectly plausible, and virtually eliminates any moral/ethical quandary on Groovyhair's part? The one that further tangles the web least? And on and on and on like that?

 

It seems like such an easy out. And such an obvious one. Why in the world wouldn't P&E have gone that route? What am I missing?

[BW Manilowe]

Maybe I'm a psychopath, or maybe because I really dislike her whiny, self-absorbed teenager self, but it seems obvious to me that the Centre should "take care of" Paige, Pastor Tim and Alice, either by killing them or sending them to the USSR for rendition. Problem solved! Of course, the Centre would have to be prepared for the Philip/Elizabeth fallout (and possible defection), but that's what Margo M. is for. I lost tract of how many episodes are left, but perhaps possible defection could be next season's arc.

William is THE

Eta: sorry, self-absorbed was the wrong word. I was trying to refer to her very narrow, black and white world view, which I see as a result of her youth and naïveté

This week was Ep 403. There are 13 eps per season, so there are 10 more to go.

[Mrs peel]

I don't know why but I thought Nina was seeing her death, all the lilies probably, and the white.

Yeah, her death or someone else's death.  When Anton had that odd look on his face, I wondered if it was his death.

 

I think we're supposed to think that Pastor Tim and Alice haven't already gone to the FBI because it's difficult for people to grasp the idea that P&E are really SPIES.  They speak with no accent (while in reality apparently the people they are based on did have Russian accents), they appear to be "normal" folks with jobs and a family.  You may know - intellectually - that there are people spying on the USA, but the average person doesn't expect to run into one.

 

How often would P&E have talked about the end game?  It can't have been a surprise that going back to the USSR would be a culture shock, if not impossible, for the children.  But heck, Henry can always move in with Stan....

 

If P&E are stuck in Gabriel's apt for 36 hours, how do they contact Claudia to get the hit canceled?  Guess we'll learn next week.

[sistermagpie]

I think we're supposed to think that Pastor Tim and Alice haven't already gone to the FBI because it's difficult for people to grasp the idea that P&E are really SPIES.

 

 

I think it's more about what Pastor Tim keeps hitting on, that he's used to keeping peoples' secrets and so is his wife. He doesn't feel like it's his duty to report them. He'd rather make a personal decision about it. I think he gets something out of having this brought to him. This is the thing Pastor Tim actually says often. He's always encouraged Paige to open up to him and wanted to advise the family. He's not saying he can't believe they're spies, he's more presenting himself as really sophisticated about this stuff, like he deals with similar stuff all the time.

 

If P&E are stuck in Gabriel's apt for 36 hours, how do they contact Claudia to get the hit canceled?  Guess we'll learn next week.

 

 

Pick up the phone?

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode -- now with very important gifs!

 

Paige Wins The Super Bowl Of Treachery On The Americans
And you know what happens when you win the Super Bowl: you're going to Disney World! Specifically, the brand-new just-opened Epcot Center! Yep, that's the plan!

[Ellaria]

But if he doesn't believe her, why tell Elizabeth and Philip that he hasn't made up his mind about whether to keep his mouth shut?

 

I agree that Pastor Tim believes Paige. Its not hard to suspect that something is "off" with Ma and Pa Jennings, especially after Phillip's late-night visit last season. Why he thinks that he is in control of the situation is beyond me. He is either incredibly naive or over-confident in his ability to reason with them. I would love to see him get spooked and report it to the FBI...who then put him in touch with neighborhood agent, Stan.

[beeble]

It's just so fitting that the FBI director would lose his shit over the xerox machine. The copier is always the center of the bureaucratic shit-storm. I work in a school and access to the copier is essentially the ring of power.

Is Glanders airborne? Or transferred via bodily fluids? Does it matter? Nah. It's gross and makes you bleed from gross places. As long as Dylan Baker hangs out I'm fine with the Vague Virus.

Ruthie Ann Miles is awesome. (Watch her sing "Something Wonderful" on YouTube and you'll cry) I hope there is more to her than meets the eye. Surely the show wouldn't hire a Tony-winning actress just to play generic "Korean wife of important dude."

Pastor Tim is certainly thinking that he can save the Jennings from their Soviet ways leading him to attempt a conversion, because Jesus is awesome, yada yada yada. Poor guy has zero clue what he's up against, even when Paige spelled it out for him. Paige may not be stupid (like her dad said) but Tim is.

I'm completely lost on what's going on with Nina. Her life was shit, and now it's worse...so...yeah. She was morally compromised but sympathetic to start with. Now she is less morally compromised I think, but...I don't know.

Edited March 31, 2016 by beeble

[Knuckles]

The Nina storyline confuses me...what is the point? Anton's kidnapping and the deal-making with the Israelis was interesting, as was her initial assignment to work Anton...but the payoff? Is this to remind us that things in the old USSR were truly grim? Arkady and Oleg have been drawn as more fully realized characters, and yes the Soviet woman who is handling the toxins project is scary, since she seems capable of undermining both of them. But do something with Nina...she's been drifting around that Soviet center too long...and Anton himself is just not that compelling.

 

I'm guessing that they don's use the phone to contact Claudia, since that is a direct, traceable link. So, they don't call Paige at home either...or do they make an emergency run to a phone booth and wipe it down afterwards. Leaving Paige alone for 36 hours with no info is an invitation to disaster...who knows what conclusions she'll draw and how she will act. Especially if Tim and Alice are whacked in the interim.

[Knuckles]

And for what it is worth...I don't think Tim is stupid...if some kid came to me and told me her folks were Russian spies, I would be inclined to think it might be a bizarre story that masked family problems...Tim might be trying to figure if there is some sort of abuse at home.  I think he is trying to sort out what might be going on with the family dynamics, that would lead Paige to make such an outrageous claim. P & E could have easily gone with Paige being imaginative and overwhelmed with school or social pressures and indicated that they are going to seek professional help for her. Therapy was the general cure-all in the 80s too, so it would not be far-fetched.

Maybe, P&E are not that clued in to American culture, to realize there was an easier out for them.

[BW Manilowe]

I do like not knowing what their plans are but I did wonder why Elizabeth got the job selling Mary Kay cosmetics and befriending the nice Korean lady and hanging out with her family. I'm guessing the husband works at the bioweapons lab.

Every girl in my second grade class had a Cabbage Patch Doll. Young Hee's right, they were ugly.

Like the rest of the board Dylan Baker running and Phillip tackling him and spitting on him made me laugh.

Poor guy though, ending up allergic to practically everything. Maybe the anti-Vaxxers could run with that.

I don't know what the solution is to the Pastor Tim mess other than killing him and his wife. I don't expect Phillip and Elizabeth to move to Odessa.

Nina looked pretty in her dream.

Henry has gotten tall now!

This pic, of Holly Taylor & Keidrich Sellati (Henry), was taken yesterday, at an FX network-related event in NY. It appears that they're now basically the same height.

http://www.google.com/search?q=holly+taylor+keidrich+sellati+fx+upfront+2016&biw=480&bih=208&tbm=isch&prmd=niv&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwig1-Gg0uvLAhWiuIMKHSvXBSAQ_AUIBygC&dpr=2#imgrc=3U9G6Dc4Z53KAM%3A

[sistermagpie]

I'm guessing that they don's use the phone to contact Claudia, since that is a direct, traceable link.

 

 

I don't think it is. They can call the guy in the phone center and he relays the message. In this ep they presumably called William to meet with him within minutes, so why couldn't they contact anyone else?

 

Tim might be trying to figure if there is some sort of abuse at home.  I think he is trying to sort out what might be going on with the family dynamics, that would lead Paige to make such an outrageous claim.

 

 

But we see what he's saying to Philip and Elizabeth and to Paige and he's not doing that. 

[Inquisitionist]

Ruthie Ann Miles is awesome. (Watch her sing "Something Wonderful" on YouTube and you'll cry) I hope there is more to her than meets the eye. Surely the show wouldn't hire a Tony-winning actress just to play generic "Korean wife of important dude."

 

Thanks for pointing out who she is as I wasn't familiar with the actress.  But her role doesn't strike me as generic in the least.  I was impressed by how individualized and specific Young Hee came across in the few scenes Elizabeth had with her.

[PinkRibbons]

Contrived? Why? Hasn't Nina been all but sentenced to be executed?

 

I should have been clearer, I meant to say her death in that manner (very Titanic, in her sleep while dreaming happy dreams) would be very contrived, because what's going to kill a healthy young woman in her sleep other than some sudden reveal of a condition we never knew about?

 

Oh, I forgot the other interesting thing--not sure if it means anything but I just noted it--was how Pastor Tim brought up the USSR's record on human rights and said they didn't guard them if people were "religious" and then brought up Jewish dissidents. I thought that was a little off. Anti-antisemitism in the USSR wasn't purely about religion, was it? I would think you could be an atheist in the USSR and still be the target of antisemitism if you were Jewish. It just seemed like it was put in there to maybe lay the groundwork for a religion vs. communism thing, with P&E eventually landing on the Sanctuary Movement to show how they could work together.

 

Oh yeah, Pastor Tim doesn't know shit about the Jewish problems in the USSR. It had little to nothing to do with being religious -- that country made every effort to destroy all religious life to the point that most Russian Jews never saw a menorah before they came to the US. It was all about having a J stamped in your passport and suddenly you couldn't get into a school you wanted, have the career you wanted, your kids couldn't play with the neighbors' kids, etc. And the reason I think Pastor Tim is especially full of shit is because he would apparently have some contact with the Jewish clergy and they would be dealing (as they still are) with a major culture clash as immigrants joined the community. I've been in the middle of it: you have your third-generation American Jews who place their status as Jews far more on religious observance than birth. And then you have your almost completely secular Russian Immigrants who don't know a word of Hebrew, but they're as much Jews as anyone else, and what's more, they took treatment for being Jewish that American Jews can't imagine.

 

In my family my mother found the only way she could get her children an affordable religious education (like she'd wanted for herself) was to put them in an Orthodox school. And there are my sister and I trying to assimilate to this extreme form of religious practice while our father refused to even consider it. My sister would be worrying that we weren't Jewish enough and getting the answer from our father that he has the scars on his ass to prove how much of a Jew he is. Our family alone was a conundrum for the community to work with, and there would be a lot of that kind of problem all through immigration.

[Dowel Jones]

...some of the things he's allergic to...

 

When he named those off, I thought, jeez, I'd kill myself if that happened.

 

The hit is planned for P&E being out of the country.

 

Or Disney World.  Same difference.  Actually, having been there just once, my opinion is that if you wanted to convince your adolescent children of the evils of capitalism, Disney World is the place to go.  Bit o' Trivia:  The official governmental name for Disney World is The Reedy Creek Improvement District.

 

I wonder what the long game is with Elizabeth and Mary Kay.  Was Young He's husband id'ed as another employee of the lab?   I can't see her getting into it just for appearances sake, as they already have the travel agency.  I do have this vision of Elizabeth striking gold with her sales and driving around DC in a gigantorandus pink Cadillac.

 

I had to have a hearty laugh at Elizabeth's reaction to the pepper.  Having ingested said pepper at an authentic local Korean restaurant one time, I can attest to the accuracy of the scene.  I remember drinking the entire contents of my water glass and then holding another mouthful, just trying to cool off my tongue. 

 

Things are slowly starting to spin around for Martha.  Unless Philip sets up some kind of distraction, I think she'll make some kind of mistake down the road.  I remember an actual case of this nature, back in the 70's, I think.  The West German Chancellor, Willy Brandt, had a personal secretary on his staff who had been seduced by an East German man, and had been passing documents to him for years, if memory serves.  She actually defected before getting caught.

[Penman61]

If anyone would like to take a stab at tying the Nina story arc back to the core story (either/both thematically or plotwise), I know I'd personally appreciate it.  All I see as of this episode is a story thread trailing farther and farther away into irrelevance.  

 I do have this vision of Elizabeth striking gold with her sales and driving around DC in a gigantorandus pink Cadillac.

 

 

OMG I love this.  Lemme add that she then actually does run away to Odessa...Texas, where she acquires a dusty, thick West Texas accent, a taste for chardonnay, and becomes the town's biggest high school football booster.  Cue the music.

[maczero]

I feel like such an idiot.  I never realized that EPCOT was an acronym until I saw this episode's title. lol!

 

I'm sure P & E and the audience all realize telling Paige was a huge mistake!  I know Paige backed them into a corner with her constant questions but these people lie for a living.  What's one more lie to protect their family.  Personally, I wish they would've told Paige they were into the swinger lifestyle.  To a sixteen year old girl, it would be a creepy & disgusting thing to find out about your parents but it isn't illegal.  She'd probably wish she had never asked after finding out their "deep, dark secret".

 

Being stuck at Gabriel's with a deadly virus is inconvenient.  I'd at least call Paige and say that one of them got a serious case of food poisoning and that they're at the hospital.  As for the hit, I'd say it's smart to call it off until they can establish an alibi.  Better yet, I'm with Phil they should've run.  There's no telling whether or not the wife told anyone so if they did and the pastor and his wife suddenly turn up dead then that gives the person they told some reason to believe that the Jennings are spies.

[Inquisitionist]

 Personally, I wish they would've told Paige they were into the swinger lifestyle.  To a sixteen year old girl, it would be a creepy & disgusting thing to find out about your parents but it isn't illegal.  She'd probably wish she had never asked after finding out their "deep, dark secret".

 

LOL!  But that wouldn't necessarily explain why they have no family in the U.S.  I wonder what P&E told the kids about this lack in the past.  That they were both orphaned only children who fell in love at a support group for orphaned only children?

[damalanop]

I do have this vision of Elizabeth striking gold with her sales and driving around DC in a gigantorandus pink Cadillac.

I was thinking the same thing today!!! I actually saw one of those pink Caddies today on the road, thought immediately of Elizabeth and laughed! Crazy how little things pop into your mind based on a TV show.

[J-Man]

As much as I love this show, I'm getting frustrated that they keep adding new characters and storylines (e.g., William, Young-Hee) when there are still unresolved, and presumably still ongoing, interactions with people that seem to have been forgotten, like Kimmie and the aircraft factory worker.

[JennyMominFL]

I feel like such an idiot.  I never realized that EPCOT was an acronym until I saw this episode's title. lol!

 

 

I live in Orlando and go there a lot. Nowadays people claim  EPCOT stands for Every Person Comes Out Tired or Every Pocket Comes Out Thinner

 

I am in a  Cold War Homefronts class at university right now. and I am reading a book called Soviet Baby Boomers. The people profiled are all about the age of our tow main character. They are the class of 67.  Some are Jewish, but they are secular. Most of them said they did not see AntiSemitism in childhood, but it showed up when they began applying to college.  It profiles people in two cities. Moscow and Saratov. The Jewish kids in Moscow had a harder time getting into college than the ones in Saratov. Anyhow, it's a very good book it you want a window into what Elizabeth and Phillip would have experienced as kids. 

   But I don't know how anyone living in the 80's would know about Jewish anti-semitism in the USSR. I was just a kid, but I heard the words refuseniks a lot.

Edited March 31, 2016 by JennyMominFL

[sistermagpie]

As much as I love this show, I'm getting frustrated that they keep adding new characters and storylines (e.g., William, Young-Hee) when there are still unresolved, and presumably still ongoing, interactions with people that seem to have been forgotten, like Kimmie and the aircraft factory worker.

 

 

They're not forgotten. They're still maintaining those relationships. We just don't hear about it unless something out of the ordinary happens in it. I think William and Young Hee are part of the same bio-warfare story (though we don't know yet about Young Hee). They can't really draft the other characters into that. Karen's attached to the Stealth project and Kimmie to Afghanistan, all things still going on.

 

LOL!  But that wouldn't necessarily explain why they have no family in the U.S.  I wonder what P&E told the kids about this lack in the past.  That they were both orphaned only children who fell in love at a support group for orphaned only children?

 

 

Nor really any of the other things, like why they get phone calls and one takes off or go out in the middle of the night. Swingers can plan nights out pretty easily. (Of course the real reason they told was more emotional--if they lied they were deciding to separate themselves definitively from Paige forever in that context. The relationship almost had to move forward and change or start to die.)

 

I actually think the support group type idea would make sense. Not that they actually were in a group, but if they met as young adults and realized they were both alone in the world that would believably be something that would bond them and make them feel like they understood each other. It's funny because in reality Elizabeth seems to have one mother (now dead) and one uncle (now ill) and Philip might for all we know have nobody at all. So Paige's acting like she's entitled to more family actually could be kind of cutting.

 

It would be interesting if Philip had nobody considering Philip was the one who wanted to send Paige to meet her grandmother because she wanted family, giving her something that he didn't have himself. (Pure speculation since we don't know about his family.)

[Blakeston]

I don't know why I'm repeatedly defending the vile Pastor Tim in this thread - but I don't see a problem with what he said about Jews in Russia. He criticized the USSR for not treating religious people equally, and then pointed out how Jews were prevented from practicing Judaism. That all sounds accurate to me. As badly as people of Jewish descent were treated in the USSR, the ones who lived secular lives weren't treated as badly as the ones who tried to practice their religion.

He didn't say, "Your country is fine with Jews, unless they're religious."

LOL!  But that wouldn't necessarily explain why they have no family in the U.S.  I wonder what P&E told the kids about this lack in the past.  That they were both orphaned only children who fell in love at a support group for orphaned only children?

That's what I would have told them - "We met at a group home run by the state for children without parents."

I don't know what Philip and Elizabeth claimed, but Elizabeth claimed to have that "great aunt."

[RedHawk]

As much as I love this show, I'm getting frustrated that they keep adding new characters and storylines (e.g., William, Young-Hee) when there are still unresolved, and presumably still ongoing, interactions with people that seem to have been forgotten, like Kimmie and the aircraft factory worker.

I love the new characters! 

 

I think it's important to understand that Kimmie and Lisa (the aircraft factory worker) have not been "forgotten". The events we are seeing now happen only about one week after the events of the finale of last season. So in our own lives months have passed, but in the Jennings' lives it's only days. Thus, they are still "working" Kimmie and possibly Lisa, we just don't see it right now because the other, emergency events have put those on the back burner. Lisa's story may indeed be done. She and her husband turned over the camera and got the payoff. Maybe that's The End, unless Baklanov needs more photos. Philip still needs to see Kimmie to pick up the tapes in her father's briefcase, so I think we'll see her again at some point. There are 10 more episodes and many things can happen.

[jjj]

I am completely unspoiled, but I have to wonder if Young-Hee will become a moral crisis for Elizabeth, if Young-Hee's family is put in danger?  She is the first person in four seasons who seemed like she could be a friend to Elizabeth.  And the fact that she is a three-dimensional character makes her much more of a loss to us and Elizabeth, if it comes to that. 

 

The airplane factory worker fulfilled her role by getting pictures to Elizabeth, so she is no longer needed.  And Kimmie seemed to be a plot point they just did not need anymore; or her father got a new briefcase for Christmas...

[stagmania]

I think the compressed timeline is part of the struggle of trying to process all of these stories. As RedHawk said above, it's only been a short time in show world since we last saw Phillip with Kimmie, but so much has happened, and several new characters have been introduced. For me, in addition to just trying to keep all the moving pieces straight, I find it hard to believe that Phillip and Elizabeth are keeping track of this many assets simultaneously, and running a legitimate business, and maintaining a relatively normal-seeming family life, and sneaking away to meet with Gabriel multiple times a week. When do they sleep?!

 

And I agree with all who have mentioned their frustrations with Nina's continued presence. I can't see how she's tying into the narrative anymore, and I find myself disengaging every time she's onscreen. In a story that's already this busy, she really feels superfluous.

Edited April 1, 2016 by stagmania

[Ellaria]

As much as I love this show, I'm getting frustrated that they keep adding new characters and storylines (e.g., William, Young-Hee) when there are still unresolved, and presumably still ongoing, interactions with people that seem to have been forgotten, like Kimmie and the aircraft factory worker.

 

I do have to agree, in part, with this comment. I'm not necessarily frustrated. I just have to keep telling myself not to try and make all the pieces fit together because they don't...at least not right now.

 

 

I think it's important to understand that Kimmie and Lisa (the aircraft factory worker) have not been "forgotten". The events we are seeing now happen only about one week after the events of the finale of last season. So in our own lives months have passed, but in the Jennings' lives it's only days. Thus, they are still "working" Kimmie and possibly Lisa, we just don't see it right now...

 

While this is important - and certainly possible that these characters could return - I don't believe that these transitions are always handled smoothly.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Ellaria Sand

[RedHawk]

William's run was the hardest I've laughed all week. Thanks Americans!

 

Love the return of Aderholdt (I assume the Mail Robot picked up that convo?) and and YoungHee and her family are fantastic.

Ah, another good catch, SisterMagpie. The memo was just a (hilarious!) reason for Stan and Aderholdt to have a conversation about tailing Martha within Mail Robot's hearing. So although Oleg won't immediately realize who Martha is, the info that Stan doesn't accept that Gene was the mole and he has suspicions about Martha will be turned over to the Centre and they will know who she is.

 

I chuckled at Aderholdt saying he'd invite her out to dinner, mostly because I remember what happened to the last FBI agent who was dating Martha. Could it be that Aderholdt actually is attracted to Martha? Since his first appearance he seemed to show interest in chatting with her, and I wasn't sure if it was attraction, his way of gaining info and insight into his co-workers and how they tick, or just a friendly co-worker thing because he was the new guy trying to fit in. Her distance could make her seem appealing and mysterious to him, but on the other hand he is keen and observant, so even if he seemed to dismiss Stan's suspicion, he's willing to try to get a read on her by seeing her outside the office. 

 

Stan's basic refusal to imagine her with a boyfriend with whom she might spend a night now and then reminded me about his comments on the doctored cassette that Clark played for Martha, which weren't too far from the truth of how Stan seems to see her. He's such a prick sometimes.

Edited April 1, 2016 by RedHawk

[Chaos Theory]

I am completely unspoiled, but I have to wonder if Young-Hee will become a moral crisis for Elizabeth, if Young-Hee's family is put in danger? She is the first person in four seasons who seemed like she could be a friend to Elizabeth. And the fact that she is a three-dimensional character makes her much more of a loss to us and Elizabeth, if it comes to that.

The airplane factory worker fulfilled her role by getting pictures to Elizabeth, so she is no longer needed. And Kimmie seemed to be a plot point they just did not need anymore; or her father got a new briefcase for Christmas...

I said it up a few posts but if P & E (and everything else being equal) were normal people I could see Young Hee being the type of person Elizabeth would have gravitated to. Someone who isn't fully assimilated but still enjoyed buying their children extravagant gifts because they can.

I don't think I have seen Elizabeth laugh so hard and geniunly enjoy herself so much as during dinner with the Hee family. I don't think all of it was fake.

[sistermagpie]

I don't know why I'm repeatedly defending the vile Pastor Tim in this thread - but I don't see a problem with what he said about Jews in Russia. He criticized the USSR for not treating religious people equally, and then pointed out how Jews were prevented from practicing Judaism.

 

 

My point in bringing it up was not that I thought he was saying the country was fine with Jews unless they were religious. I was noting that he, as a Pastor, said "unless they're religious" in response to human rights and brought up Jewish people and Polish Catholics (who I thought were perhaps also organized as opposition to the Soviets). I thought that was because he, as a Pastor, was focusing on religion, framing things in terms of what was important to him and probably seeing himself as the opposition to them because of that. Of course the Soviets *were* anti-religious but it seemed like he was framing things in a specifically religious way. That seemed significant to me not because I thought he was lying but because it seemed like the writers might have been setting up something with it. Like Philip and Elizabeth hitting on the Sanctuary Movement to "bring them together."

 

That said, I can totally see why putting religious Jews into a special group would anger someone who got out of the country. It seems like PinkRibbons was saying this was a sensitive subject because immigrants to America were often dealing with Jewish people who thought religion was important to their identity and they resented the idea they had to be religious to be considered truly Jewish, or less deserving of sympathy, especially after what they'd experienced compared to those same people. And if Pastor Tim was a real person I can totally see him being a little pushy on the subject because that's his way.

 

I remember, actually, reading a book that was autobiographical and one of the things the author mentioned was how Jewish immigrants would warn each other about weird demands their host groups would make. For instance, they couldn't have trees for New Years because they'd read it as being a sign of secret Christianity even though they were just celebrating New Year's.

 

Could it be that Aderholdt actually is attracted to Martha?

 

 

I've always thought he was. He would be the first really good guy to date Martha, imo. Amador was a jerk and Aderholdt seems like a great guy. He'd also be somebody Martha would be great with because she'd be in his corner like she is for Clark. I can imagine him being able to talk about his struggles at the office etc., and her listening to him.

Edited April 1, 2016 by sistermagpie

[Chaos Theory]

Martha seems to attract a lot of single FBI guys doesn't she? Everyone is someone's type. There is an old country song "In A Different Light". It came in out in the early 90s though but when I hear it it reminds me of Martha.

I am intrigued by her story and have been for awhile now. Everyone is certain that she is going to die but I don't think the show writes that way. It writes against death of its main characters and not towards it. If it did it would have killed off Nina a long time ago. I think the show is more likely going to have Stan catch Martha.

The problem with killing Martha is it ends too many stories too quickly but having her get caught opens up the potential for just as many.

[Umbelina]

I was totally laughing at Paige being so indignant about that. "How dare Pastor Tim tell a secret? Only I'm allowed to tell other people's secrets!"

 

Ah, bureaucracy. When Gaad lectured everyone about how six unlogged copies on the Xerox machine jeopardized their entire division, it made me so glad that I don't work somewhere like that. He probably has someone count all the paper clips every night.

Considering the shit load of trouble that office is in, I'm actually kind of shocked they haven't placed cameras everywhere, especially over the copy machine.  He should, if anything, be MORE concerned that someone coped something not logged in.

 

Who would have called off the hit?  I have no reason to believe that the hit isn't still on.  In fact, I will be shocked if it doesn't happen.  I would have thought for sure that the only person that is in a position to call it off is Claudia.  From what we have seen, Claudia doesn't know about Gabriel's current medical condition.  The Jennings are far too busy cleaning up the mess, and trying to avoid possible exposure to others..

 

We don't know if Gabriel's exposure to the contents of that vial was accidental or criminal.  Gabriel doesn't seem like a stupid man to me.. 

Well, we got a little hint when William said he's been complaining that the threads on the caps have been inferior.  So...

 

It will be interesting to see how they handle this.  Who steps in to care for the kids (and yeah, we got a little glimpse in the preview) and WHAT is their reason?  Not only cancel Disney World, but also disappear for a few days?  Gosh I love this show so much.  Ha.

 

I don't think it's just a "bureaucracy" thing - it has more to do with keeping track of what potentially secure or sensitive items are copied.  If you copy something, you have to record it to ensure some (Martha...) isn't making copies and passing them along to others.

Exactly, and an office that's already been reprimanded. 

 

Contrived? Why? Hasn't Nina been all but sentenced to be executed? I was almost waiting for the guards to come for her at the end of her dream. The writers could very easily write her out this way. Sure, we would probably be saying "They've had her storyline drag for so long and now that's it?", but it would be like life, tragic and senseless, rather than a story arc and a payoff. I think I'd accept that kind of resolution for Nina's plot.

 

I still have hope they tie it all together somehow, even if it's just after her execution or the engineer's.  I don't hate it as much this season as I did last season, and I think showing the world there has possibilities.

 

This week was Ep 403. There are 13 eps per season, so there are 10 more to go.

Can you believe it?  More happens on this show, I love that! 

 

I agree that Pastor Tim believes Paige. Its not hard to suspect that something is "off" with Ma and Pa Jennings, especially after Phillip's late-night visit last season. Why he thinks that he is in control of the situation is beyond me. He is either incredibly naive or over-confident in his ability to reason with them. I would love to see him get spooked and report it to the FBI...who then put him in touch with neighborhood agent, Stan.

After that last meeting, if he doesn't realize he's in serious trouble, he will truly be an idiot.  I think he does though, especially after the whole "wife knows" stuff.  He may have used either his hubris or faith as a reason not to act so far, but after that?  HELLO!

 

And for what it is worth...I don't think Tim is stupid...if some kid came to me and told me her folks were Russian spies, I would be inclined to think it might be a bizarre story that masked family problems...Tim might be trying to figure if there is some sort of abuse at home.  I think he is trying to sort out what might be going on with the family dynamics, that would lead Paige to make such an outrageous claim. P & E could have easily gone with Paige being imaginative and overwhelmed with school or social pressures and indicated that they are going to seek professional help for her. Therapy was the general cure-all in the 80s too, so it would not be far-fetched.

Maybe, P&E are not that clued in to American culture, to realize there was an easier out for them.

Yeah, but they are in Virginia, spy central area, so that should have made him think, or at least, take this seriously on more than a spiritual level.  I think he really blew it talking with Philip and Elizabeth, and as I said above, if he didn't know how much danger he was in, he certainly should know now.

 

I can't wait to see what happens. 

Edited April 1, 2016 by Umbelina

[PinkRibbons]

What sistermagpie said. Perfectly put.

 

I've been thinking of the sleep question since season 1 actually, and I've come to the conclusion that Philip and Elizabeth have simply physically adapted to living on very little sleep. Some people can function on four hours a night, or so I read.

[izabella]

I said it up a few posts but if P & E (and everything else being equal) were normal people I could see Young Hee being the type of person Elizabeth would have gravitated to. Someone who isn't fully assimilated but still enjoyed buying their children extravagant gifts because they can.

I don't think I have seen Elizabeth laugh so hard and geniunly enjoy herself so much as during dinner with the Hee family. I don't think all of it was fake.

 

You can't fake the hot pepper dance!

[Tetraneutron]

The dumbest part about Nina's plot is it's the only thing on this whole show that's typical TV. The best-looking man and the best-looking woman are redeemed by their love for each other.

 

Now that I think about it, P and E had a few ways they could neutralize Pastor Tim without killing him. (Which does seem to be their solution to everything, so I get why they went there). They could have, like someone here said, planted child porn or stolen money on him. They could have made it seem like his involvement in lefty causes was more serious than it was and gotten him tied up with law enforcement. They could have acted like Paige is a crazy liar. (What Philip is trying with Sandra). They could have convinced him that they were doing good work for causes he believed in and they needed his silence as a fellow activist. 

[Umbelina]

You can't fake the hot pepper dance!

Notice how perfectly they hid her pregnancy with that!  Ha.  There's a gif in the recap, very well done, ditto sitting behind lots and lots of makeup.

 

The dumbest part about Nina's plot is it's the only thing on this whole show that's typical TV. The best-looking man and the best-looking woman are redeemed by their love for each other.

 

Now that I think about it, P and E had a few ways they could neutralize Pastor Tim without killing him. (Which does seem to be their solution to everything, so I get why they went there). They could have, like someone here said, planted child porn or stolen money on him. They could have made it seem like his involvement in lefty causes was more serious than it was and gotten him tied up with law enforcement. They could have acted like Paige is a crazy liar. (What Philip is trying with Sandra). They could have convinced him that they were doing good work for causes he believed in and they needed his silence as a fellow activist. 

Child porn or money or anything else like that wouldn't stop the FBI from investigating them though, and frankly, with all the cases they are running, if anyone followed Philip and Elizabeth for even two days?  They'd be nailed.

 

They shouldn't have admitted Paige was truthful, that's for sure, but they did, and here we are.

[magemaud]

I think that Elizabeth has become "Patty" the Mary Kay newbie in order to gain access to Young-Hee's family, specifically her brother, Don, (wine guy.) Don could be the key to get to Level 4 of the Bio Lab and Elizabeth will take advantage of him being more "Americanized" than most of his family and start a relationship with him. And we all know how irresistible Elizabeth is when she turns on the charm! 

[Moose135]

 When do they sleep?!

 

You can sleep when you're dead...which in the spy business, may be sooner than you expect!

[Tetraneutron]

Child porn or money or anything else like that wouldn't stop the FBI from investigating them though, and frankly, with all the cases they are running, if anyone followed Philip and Elizabeth for even two days?  They'd be nailed.

 

They shouldn't have admitted Paige was truthful, that's for sure, but they did, and here we are.

It would make it so the FBI was less inclined to believe him if he said anything about that nice, normal travel agent couple. It would make him lose all credibility. And the FBI doesn't start investigating anyone who some random citizen accuses of criminal activity. If they did, they'd have no time to do their actual jobs. More to the point, if Pastor Tim is a pedophile, I'm pretty sure Paige no longer feels a need to confide in him or see him as a role model. 

[sistermagpie]

The dumbest part about Nina's plot is it's the only thing on this whole show that's typical TV. The best-looking man and the best-looking woman are redeemed by their love for each other.

I may be missing the obvious here but...who's the best-looking man?

They shouldn't have admitted Paige was truthful, that's for sure, but they did, and here we are.

To be fair, I don't know if they'd have had much of a chance of trying that. Paige has been a favorite of Pastor Tim's for a while now and he knows she's truthful and not hysterical or prone to plays for attention. I can easily buy him taking her word over her parents.

It would make it so the FBI was less inclined to believe him if he said anything about that nice, normal travel agent couple. It would make him lose all credibility. And the FBI doesn't start investigating anyone who some random citizen accuses of criminal activity

I don't know how many tips like that they get, but I can't imagine why they wouldn't check it out. It's really not such a strange story at all. The FBI counterintelligence group would be the last people to dismiss a couple of travel agents because they look too normal. I think travel agents might be even a popular cover business for spies.

From Philip and Elizabeth's pov, too, even one tip is too much. Even if the FBI didn't dig deep enough this time, their names have now been passed on as potential spies. Pastor Tim also has concrete info from Paige about things like her parents going out at night and Philip being gone 2 nights a week.

Basically, once you accept that *somebody* is the actual spy (and the FBI must) there's absolutely nothing that makes Philip and Elizabeth less likely than anyone else. If they look into their backgrounds specifically for proof they're not actual Americans but Russian Illegals? That would be there.

ETA: Oh, and I just realized the biggest danger...Stan Beeman works there. So he'd be having Paige's youth pastor tell him the Jennings are Illegals as per Paige. That's game over.

Edited April 1, 2016 by sistermagpie

[Umbelina]

Yeah, their covers aren't tight enough to stand up to even a slightly deep look.  After all, both of them died long ago.  It wouldn't be instant, like it is today, but paper records certainly did exist.

 

But as I said before, even following them for a few days would blow them, and Gabe since they are casually traipsing to his house on the reg now, all to hell. 

[micat]

I thought they dropped a few anvils in this episode, anvils that made me think Paige is going to die. First, in P & E's conversation about what would happen if they ran, Philip ends up saying that no matter what happens, Paige will suffer. Second, the scene with the Russian-accented travel agency employee telling Philip about the Epcot trip. He says that they have four seats together on the way there but only three together on the way back, and Philip dismisses that saying, it doesn't matter. Third, the scene with Paige looking at Henry was shot very much like a sentimental goodbye. Fourth, the scene where Philip says to Gabriel that of course they couldn't ever think of continuing to recruit Paige if they kill Pastor Tim and wife Bigmouth, and Gabriel waves it off like recruiting Paige doesn't matter any more. Of course, all of these things have other interpretations as well and make sense in the show, but especially the four seats there, three seats back, doesn't matter part jumped right out at me and Mr. Micat.

Edited April 1, 2016 by micat

[Umbelina]

Wow, if that's true!

 

I love these writers so much I think anything could happen. 

 

I admit I was pretty shocked when by "leaving" Philip meant "back to Russia."  I thought he was pretty much over Russia, he didn't seem to have the romantic attachment that Elizabeth does.  Then again, without cover, how would they expect to be able to stay in the USA?  Or even another country, with probably the FBI and the KGB looking for them? 

 

They are "in trouble."  What an understatement. 

[AGuyToo]

I thought they dropped a few anvils in this episode, anvils that made me think Paige is going to die. First, in P & E's conversation about what would happen if they ran, Philip ends up saying that no matter what happens, Paige will suffer. Second, the scene with the Russian-accented travel agency employee telling Philip about the Epcot trip. He says that they have four seats together on the way there but only three together on the way back, and Philip dismisses that saying, it doesn't matter. Third, the scene with Paige looking at Henry was shot very much like a sentimental goodbye. Fourth, the scene where Philip says to Gabriel that of course they couldn't ever think of continuing to recruit Paige if they kill Pastor Tim and wife Bigmouth, and Gabriel waves it off like recruiting Paige doesn't matter any more. Of course, all of these things have other interpretations as well and make sense in the show, but especially the four seats there, three seats back, doesn't matter part jumped right out at me and Mr. Micat.

If Paige dies, then the show is over. No way Philip and Elizabeth continue on as KGB officers in that case. They will burn everything to the ground – not just Philip but Elizabeth too. They will kill Gabriel, Claudia, Arkady, Oleg, Tatiana, and any other KGB person they can get their hands on.

 

The showrunners have been clear that they think of The Americans as more than just a spy show. In season one, it was mostly about a marriage. Now, it’s mostly – obviously not entirely, but in its important aspects – about a family. It’s about parents and children, mothers and daughters. They can’t kill Paige. That would betray the show’s central vision. It would be horrible storytelling.

 

No way that happens.

Edited April 1, 2016 by AGuyToo

[SlackerInc]

The bizarre thing about the official atheism and repression of religion in the USSR is that now that Putin's in charge of Mother Russia, people are getting sent to prison just for expressing their atheism online (like it's Saudi Arabia or something).  This despite the fact that Putin has made no secret of his feeling that the collapse of the USSR was a tragedy!

 

I'm guessing that they don's use the phone to contact Claudia, since that is a direct, traceable link. 

 

No, handlers are hooked in to the phone network the KGB connects through that basement deal.  Which is how Larrick found and killed their former handler--but as long as a superman like him isn't involved, it can convincingly spoof various origins including the vice president's office as seen in S1 (I believe).

 

As much as I love this show, I'm getting frustrated that they keep adding new characters and storylines (e.g., William, Young-Hee) when there are still unresolved, and presumably still ongoing, interactions with people that seem to have been forgotten, like Kimmie and the aircraft factory worker.

 

I don't agree.  Why do those need to be "resolved"?  What does that even mean?  Those are just sources they either used or are still using.

 

I don't know how many tips like that they get, but I can't imagine why they wouldn't check it out. It's really not such a strange story at all. The FBI counterintelligence group would be the last people to dismiss a couple of travel agents because they look too normal. 

 

I agree with you in principle.  But the illegal they had on last week's podcast said he had been discovered due to the Mitrokhin Archive, a vast resource of information from KGB files that the UK got from a defector in 1992 (and presumably shared with the U.S., at least to some degree).  But check out the story (per Wikipedia) of how it ended up in British rather than American hands:
 

After the dissolution of the Soviet Union (in 1992) he traveled to Latvia with copies of material from the archive and walked into the American embassy in Riga. Central Intelligence Agency officers there did not consider him to be credible, concluding that the copied documents could be faked. He then went to the British embassy and a young diplomat there saw his potential and after a further appointment one month later with representatives of the Secret Intelligence Service (MI6) operations followed to retrieve the 25,000 pages of files hidden in his house, covering operations from as far back as the 1930s.

 

Oh, man, would I love to know what happened to those CIA officers who sent him away.  Oops.

[Helena Dax]

If Paige died by accident (I mean a real accident, even if it happens because her parents weren't around), Philip and Elizabeth wouldn't revolt against the KGB and it would solve the problem with Pastor Tim and his wife, who would be killed five minutes later. So it could work. But it'd be too dark and a complete change of conversation, so I don't know if the show will go there. 

 

Is Pastor Tim for real? Does he really think the KGB is going to wait for his decision?

 

So Stan thinks Martha could be hiding something... And he's completely right, of course. I can't see things ending well for her. Her best outcome is a trip to Cuba.