S03.E14: Watchdogs

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When a radical group called The Watchdogs emerges with plans to eliminate the Inhumans, Agent Mack and his brother become caught in the crossfire. Meanwhile, Simmons discovers a powerful chemical compound that could alter the future for Inhumans.

 

Promo:

[AimingforYoko]

OK, I may have geeked out about the shotgun-axe a little more than is socially acceptable.

Always nice to see Titus Welliver. Looks like we'll see more of him, now that he's leading the Watchdogs.

[MisterGlass]

I was happy for a Mac episode and getting to see his little brother, and then the shotgun axe appeared.  Kudos, writers, for following through.  The weaponization of the collie statue was also fun.

 

I thought this was a little inconsistent in viewpoint, though - they've located people with hacking before and it's never been a quandry. 

[Jediknight]

That wasn't a shotgun-ax, that was a shotgun-meat cleaver.

 

Loved Daisy breaking out a Chuck reference by calling Fitz and Mack, the Nerd Herd.  So to the writers, I say awesome job for that.  Also awesome job for having Fitz and Mack work together again, and Mack's line about being a mechanic.

 

This whole thing with the Watch Dogs would be better if you knew it would get referenced in Civil War.  But it probably won't which is too bad, cause it does help push everything closer to the Registration Act.

[dkb]

Usually I don't mind Lincoln or the actor playing him, but today was not a good episode for him. 

 

Mac is the best as always. 

Edited March 30, 2016 by dkb

[MisterGlass]

 

That wasn't a shotgun-ax, that was a shotgun-meat cleaver.

 

I'm prepared to accept this as as permissible substitute until such time, if ever, a suitable shotgun-axe appears.

[AimingforYoko]

That wasn't a shotgun-ax, that was a shotgun-meat cleaver.

It's a prototype.

[xqueenfrostine]

I thought this was a little inconsistent in viewpoint, though - they've located people with hacking before and it's never been a quandry. 

 

But have they hacked people based just on internet comments?  I assumed Mack and Fitz's objections were that Daisy was essentially suggesting rounding up the real world equivalent of racist trolls on the internet without first figuring out who is just talk and who is part of the action.  It'd be like if the FBI started bustng in the doors of people who posted on Stormfront without any further investigation.

[miracole]

Mack, Mack, MackMackMack, Mack, Mack and his shotgun-ax.

[Senna]

I legit squealed when Mack christened his contraption a "shotgun axe."  (But I still won't be satisfied until he gets a proper one.)  Also, have we ever learned his full name before?  Is Alfie short for Alfred?!  His little brother was a bit annoying.  What kind of person sees a building with people in it implode and gets excited like a little kid?  I might buy the thoughtlessness if he was a teenager, but on an adult it's pretty disgusting.

 

I really liked the Simmons and May scenes tonight.  Simmons' wanting to become stronger from her guilt, and May's resolve.  Good character moments.

[kitlee625]

I wish the show would focus on more of the stuff with Mack, namely character development and backstory. It was nice to see him grappling with the cost of being a SHIELD agent. The rest of the show was the usual breakneck speed of special effects/fight sequences/self-righteous pontificating. Though I did like that Blake's villain-monologuing was actually him stalling.

Edited March 30, 2016 by kitlee625

[TVSpectator]

I liked this episode more than last week's episode. And I was happily shocked to see an episode that focused on dealing with the fallout from the immediate previous episode. Lately, this show hasn't been doing that (why writers, why?) and I always enjoy seeing Mack on sceen. 

 

 

It's a prototype.

 

Baby steps, baby steps. And I am sure that Mack can just make it himself since the MCU has just now discovered the joys of duck tape. 

[Sandman]

So I'm the only one singing "Knife-Wrench!" at the sight of Mack's prototype weapon?

Edited March 30, 2016 by Sandman

[kennyab]

I'm really enjoying the main plot, but getting a whole new group (even if the leader is familiar and they ended up working with Malick in the end) was a welcome breath of fresh air. Plus, while I miss Bobbi Hunter, I think we've already started to see the benefits of bringing down the cast size a bit. Yay for Mack getting some love, and double-yay for meeting little brother, who I dug. I'd be absolutely fine with seeing the two of them working together in the hangar.

 

So many little things peppered in through the episode. Nerd Herd and the Shotgun-Axe, as have already been mentioned. Damage Control is now officially part of the universe. And I thought they handled the Watchdogs really well. It feels exactly like the MCU version of a right-wing militant organization should. I haven't read any of the Captain America comics on which they're based (that was an era of Cap I just wasn't interested in), but they fit in well with the show and the current state of the larger universe.

I know some people would like more ties between the movie and TV portions of the MCU (which I get, and yes, in a perfect world that would happen), but I really do enjoy how the show fleshes out the universe. This feels like a warm-up for the main event, which I think is fun in itself.

[Lantern7]

"Watchdogs: Because 'Friends Of Humanity' Is With Another Production Company."

 

Good focus episode on Mack. And nice for Daisy to save Fitz from imploding. Still "meh" on Lincoln. He means well, but I think he's over his head. Without powers, he's just a guy. Without powers, Daisy is a special snowflake hacker.

[justjoan]

 

"Watchdogs: Because 'Friends Of Humanity' Is With Another Production Company."

Partially, but the Watchdogs are a canonical terrorist group. They date to the Greunwald era of Captain America, which may or may not be very convenient timing.

 

eta- I almost forgot- Finally we get confirmation that nitramine is still out there in the current day, because I'd swear that's what was used to implode the building in Ant-Man. The explosive (implosive?) behaved like nitramene, and Howard and Hank knew each other, but if anyone ever used the name I missed it. It would have been a painless way for the movies to acknowledge the shows without forcing anyone to watch them, but we can't have that, I guess.

Edited March 30, 2016 by justjoan

[AlliMo]

I enjoyed the little nod to other parts of the Marvel universe with the chyron proclaiming the gang war in Hell's Kitchen. Well done, writers.

 

This episode felt like mostly filler, though I am interested in watching Daisy's progression to jack booted thug.

[VCRTracking]

Finally we got to see some of Mack's backstory.

 

I miss Bobbi and Hunter but it's great the're still mentioned and not forgotten.

 

So glad they haven't forgotten Jemma freeing Andrew which unintentionally led to Inhuman deaths.

 

Love the continuity from Agent Carter with the use of nitramene.

 

I liked Felix Blake and sad that he turned into a bitter villain and is in a wheelchair.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SMASH! It's always great to see him, even when he's being an annoying little brother. I know someone who was in a similar situation. This person stayed in their hometown to take care of their parents and then later complained about how the other siblings "just left," as if they had taken a rocket ship to an alien planet when what actually happened is that the other siblings asked about hiring a nurse or other home care professional (which they were willing to pay for) and the martyr sibling had insisted on taking care of their parents. Obviously it wasn't exactly the same situation as Ruben/Alfie, but there were definitely shades of the same resentment when, as Mac pointed out, no one held a gun to anyone's head and forced them to stay.

 

Lincoln still bores me. And I agree that as much as I liked watching Bobbi kick ass and hearing Hunter be funny, paring down the cast lets the writers focus on the core characters and the plot, rather than trying to juggle a million different stories. I know we don't need an episode like this every single week, but it's good to see that the agents have family outside of SHIELD and how they deal with keeping their jobs a secret.

[ae2]

I guess it's great that we are seeing Simmons dealing with issues after everything she went through, but golly gee does it feel too late. It feels like three years since she came back from the planet and sixteen since all the Andrew stuff. Had she even had screen time since then? Doesn't she have grandchildren now?

Without powers, he's just a guy. Without powers, Daisy is a special snowflake hacker.

Someday (probably in another decade) they'll remember that he was a doctor and a healer, that he has an incredibly compassionate side to him, and he's more than just a guy obsessed with Daisy.

[kitlee625]

I'm really enjoying the main plot, but getting a whole new group (even if the leader is familiar and they ended up working with Malick in the end) was a welcome breath of fresh air.

 

I liked seeing a new group of antagonists, but having them be yet another arm of Hydra just felt cheap IMHO. The show has had a problem when it tries to make everything too interconnected. It winds up making everything feel really small, and it misses out on the opportunity of having multiple sides in a fight, something that I think is potentially interesting.

[shrewd.buddha]

I suppose I just did not feel that redneck alien-racists  wearing dog masks constituted much of a SHIELD level threat. Certainly not one worthy of the creation of the shotgun-axe. It actually felt pretty extreme when Mack used a meat cleaver on a human - was he chopping off hands? 

 

The pairing of Coulson and Lincoln was pretty inert (ie, boring). Coulson seems to have two opinions of agents : those he admires and begs to stay (SkyeDaisy, May, Bobbi) .... and those he expects to jump through hoops to earn their shiny badges (Lincoln, Ward, everybody else). He comes off like a micro managing snippy boss who's motivational pitches consist of "there are thousands of people eager to take your place if you don't get my A+ approval". (I've endured a few of those types..)

 

The coincidence of Mack visiting his out-of-work brother in the same city were the new Watchdog group is having a meet-up and his brother deciding to join on the same day was pretty weak. It wasn't helped by Mack getting the old "Skye" treatment, ironically, by SkyeDaisy : "I just can say enough good things about how awesome your brother is." 

And was Mack really just a mechanic? I thought he was a spy using his mechanic skills to infiltrate SHIELD along with Bobbi. Even though I like Mack , it seemed out of left field when Coulson just decided one day to give the mechanic a gun and put him in the field because they were shorthanded (too bad Lincoln missed out on that field promotion period). 

 

Finally, the pining over the "loss" of Bobbi and Hunter felt off-base. They are not dead, missing or injured. They were basically forced into early retirement. But all of these people are spies ... so what's keeping them from skyping, sending encrypted photos from Bora Bora, etc? I could  relate to the attitude of Mack's brother : when your work family becomes more important to you than your actual (non-evil) family , maybe your priorities are in need of a tune-up. (mechanical metaphor)

 

The whole episode felt like a B-level story line to me.

Edited March 30, 2016 by shrewd.buddha

[Agent Dark]

So I'm the only one singing "Knife-Wrench!" at the sight of Mack's prototype weapon?

For kids!

[ae2]

I supposed I just did not feel that redneck alien-racists  wearing dog masks constituted much of a SHIELD level threat.

It became a SHIELD level threat when they imploded a large building into an automobile sized ball with four blasts from a gun. That part is easy enough to understand. 

[benteen]

Titus Welliver!  Glad to see him back on the show.  I just finished watching him as the title character on Bosch, a really good show on Amazon Prime that I would recommend.  Blake's arguments actually sounded mostly reasonable and I'm glad that it appears like he'll be back again.

 

Smash Williams!  Also good to see Gaius Charles again.

 

I thought the episode started off slow but picked up as it went on, particularly in the shootout at Mack's house.  The presence of the far more dynamic Hunter and Bobbi is definitely immediately felt on this show.

[Raja]

It became a SHIELD level threat when they imploded a large building into an automobile sized ball with four blasts from a gun. That part is easy enough to understand. 

Yup they have access to Stark Tech thanks to an unknown to them link to Hydra which is secretly advocting for the aliens they are fighting against. Since so far we haven't seen a Superman level Inhuman that weapon their foot soldiers are carrying is as powerful as anything short of The Hulk on earth

[Primetimer]

All this time, Mack's brother was a high-school football star in Texas. Who knew, right?

Read the story

[Raja]

All this time, Mack's brother was a high-school football star in Texas. Who knew, right?

 

And just like Al Bundy it went downhill from there

[mac123x]

I assumed Mack and Fitz's objections were that Daisy was essentially suggesting rounding up the real world equivalent of racist trolls on the internet without first figuring out who is just talk and who is part of the action.

 

I hope they explore this attitude, and let more of her team-mates call her out on how wrong it is.  I loved that Mac immediately told her off for it, and even Fitz got a "ugh" look on his face when she was interrogating that guy.  (Incidentally, great was to reinforce that poor guy's hatred of Inhumans, Daisy.  Winning hearts and minds by blowing out his windows.)

 

She's basically doing the flip-side of Jemma's 5-minute "round up all Inhumans" attitude.

[KirkB]

It's kind of ironic that Daisy was so eager to do one of the things Skye used to have such a problem with.

[Raja]

I hope they explore this attitude, and let more of her team-mates call her out on how wrong it is. I loved that Mac immediately told her off for it, and even Fitz got a "ugh" look on his face when she was interrogating that guy. (Incidentally, great was to reinforce that poor guy's hatred of Inhumans, Daisy. Winning hearts and minds by blowing out his windows.)

She's basically doing the flip-side of Jemma's 5-minute "round up all Inhumans" attitude.

Right now she is nice Magneto. We will probably be teased with the possibility of her going full scale Inhuman superiority

[Enigma X]

I agree with Mac on the whole roundup issue but would not classify Daisy's reasoning as being that of Magneto's or even Jemma's. The latter hates all non X-men and the former hated all inhumans. These people that Daisy proposed to seek out were actively involved in hate-group activities against inhumans, no matter how small. Again, what Daisy is doing is wrong and will only make others hate inhumans, but these people are not nice people.

[ahisma]

Also, have we ever learned his full name before? Is Alfie short for Alfred?!

It's Alphonso.

And was Mack really just a mechanic? I thought he was a spy using his mechanic skills to infiltrate SHIELD along with Bobbi.

He was the chief engineer on the SHIELD ship Edward James Olmos captained. So when he showed up at Coulson's SHIELD, it was a natural from his SHIELD employment history to make him their mechanic. Adding the agent stuff came later, and he really does hate it even though he's damn good at it. Coulson really was short-handed at the time. (Not as short-handed as Mack made him later! Ba-dum *tish*)

It's good that his brother wasn't too far down the road to Watchdogs cheerleader, so their attack on the house scared him right back to Mack's side. He could have said, "You're on the wrong side! They're trying to protect people and you leading them back here got me caught in the crossfire."

This episode really did feel like a buildup of the fault lines that are going to explode in Civil War. It also felt like the Marvel movies got name-checked more often in this ep than usual. Obviously it's assumed that everyone who watches the show watches the movies, while the movies don't reference the show.

[Tarasme]

Yup they have access to Stark Tech thanks to an unknown to them link to Hydra which is secretly advocting for the aliens they are fighting against. 

 

Yep, a very interesting twist- 

 

Malick is playing both sides... he's garnering international Inhuman sympathy/ advocacy while fueling Inhuman hatred and attacks. It'll be cool to find out how this benefits Hive.

[Sandman]

Is Malick really doing anything to garner sympathy for Inhumans, even as a front? I have trouble counting his collaboration with the Russian delegate to the international conference, because I think their conversation about a "free state" for Inhumans was essentially code for "Help me stockpile living weapons on territory that I choose."

I don't think Malick is advocating for Inhumans so much as he is collecting them.

[SnoGirl]

I'm bummed that Blake is the leader of the Watchdogs. I had a headcanon that Coulson had him under-protection since he had been so badly wounded right before Hydra emerged. I wanted to see more of Blake's one-sided flirting with May. How could Coulson not find him? It's not like he could have ran anywhere...if he's really paralyzed then he could have definitely been out of commission for a long time before he got out.

I feel like we're going through a slow build-up again while waiting for Captain America (I think its sort of funny that it's Cap who has such an influence on the show considering Coulson's obsession). I wonder what's going to set it off on the show. Ward/Hive?

Loved Fitz and Daisy together and May and Simmons together. I hope we do see May train Simmons a bit, we know that Fitz can somewhat handle himself from what we saw during his hunt to find Simmons. I really hope Simmons saves Fitz during the Season Finale.

[rab01]

I can sympathize with everyone who's cheering pairing down the cast to its core to focus more on the main characters but .... how about we pair down the boring characters and bad actors and change our definition of core characters instead? 

 

Also, Monty's recap is exactly right about this: "I feel like I watch this show pretty closely, and I'm not sure what that mission is."  What the hell is SHIELD's purpose and who elected them to do it?  Specifically, why was it their job to prevent a coup in Russia? Were they right to do so? Was that in the U.S.'s best interest? Russia's? The world's somehow? Is it just because Malick was for it?  Seriously, why the hell were they threatening US/Russian relations to run in to take sides in an internal political struggle?  Maybe they were on the side of the angels but I can't remember the show telling me why. Back around to this episode, what the hell is Lincoln supposedly pledging loyalty to? Why does he have to fight for Coulson's fatherly approval when Daisy is begged to stay after she spies on SHIELD?

 

Back to the cast - Yeah it's a little big but they should use that to make the characters really at risk and force the exit of above the line stars whose characters aren't entertaining -- I am still not feeling Daisy and I'm getting tired of Coulson too. I've rarely thought that his character really worked except for a brief period immediately after the fall of Hydra. And, of course, Lincoln is boring blank slate. With Daisy, I think it's the actress; with Coulson, I think its the writing but I think the show would be stronger without all three (and with Bobby and Hunter back).

[kitlee625]

Also, Monty's recap is exactly right about this: "I feel like I watch this show pretty closely, and I'm not sure what that mission is."  What the hell is SHIELD's purpose and who elected them to do it?  Specifically, why was it their job to prevent a coup in Russia? Were they right to do so? Was that in the U.S.'s best interest? Russia's? The world's somehow? Is it just because Malick was for it?  Seriously, why the hell were they threatening US/Russian relations to run in to take sides in an internal political struggle?  Maybe they were on the side of the angels but I can't remember the show telling me why. Back around to this episode, what the hell is Lincoln supposedly pledging loyalty to? Why does he have to fight for Coulson's fatherly approval when Daisy is begged to stay after she spies on SHIELD?

 

Back to the cast - Yeah it's a little big but they should use that to make the characters really at risk and force the exit of above the line stars whose characters aren't entertaining -- I am still not feeling Daisy and I'm getting tired of Coulson too. I've rarely thought that his character really worked except for a brief period immediately after the fall of Hydra. And, of course, Lincoln is boring blank slate. With Daisy, I think it's the actress; with Coulson, I think its the writing but I think the show would be stronger without all three (and with Bobby and Hunter back).

Definitely agree with the first part. I really don't get what their mission is, and it's particularly funny because most of what they do is clean up their own mistakes. They fight Hydra (which SHIELD let grow hidden), they fight Jiaying (who only wanted to go to war because SHIELD insisted on rounding up Inhumans and Indexing them), and now they're dealing with this outbreak of Inhumans (which only exists because Daisy/Skye spilled terrigen crystals into the ocean). If they just retired and sat around, most of these problems wouldn't even exist.

 

I also am not feeling Daisy or Lincoln, and Coulson is annoying me more and more. I used to like him, but since he has become the head of SHIELD, I just find him to be a terrible leader/boss. His decisions rarely seem to make any sense, and instead are based on how much he likes the individual. I'm not sure if this is on purpose, or if this is just another case of bad writing, where the writers can't decide whether he should be a cold, detached secret agent, or an overly indulgent, soft-hearted father.

 

It's kind of ironic that Daisy was so eager to do one of the things Skye used to have such a problem with.

 

I can't tell if this is being done deliberately to show how immature and extreme she is (swinging quickly from one extreme to another), or if this is just another case of bad writing.

 

Right now she is nice Magneto. We will probably be teased with the possibility of her going full scale Inhuman superiority

 

God I hope so, because at this point I honestly don't know if the writers want me to be cheering as she violates civil liberties and talks about how "chosen" she is or not. I hope it's not the former because her pontificating about how special she is just makes me want to quit the show.

Edited March 30, 2016 by kitlee625

[benteen]

 

I also am not feeling Daisy or Lincoln, and Coulson is annoying me more and more. I used to like him, but since he has become the head of SHIELD, I just find him to be a terrible leader/boss. His decisions rarely seem to make any sense, and instead are based on how much he likes the individual. I'm not sure if this is on purpose, or if this is just another case of bad writing, where the writers can't decide whether he should be a cold, detached secret agent, or an overly indulgent, soft-hearted father.

 

THIS.  Coulson was a good middle-manager who is a lousy CEO and I can't stand his sanctimonious nature.  I'm not a Lincoln fan but was annoyed when he got on his case in the plane.  Coulson is the same guy who murdered two security guards because of his special snowflake.  The show has done its best to downplay that but I haven't forgotten.

 

He constantly lets his emotions get in the way of his job.

[kennyab]

Also, Monty's recap is exactly right about this: "I feel like I watch this show pretty closely, and I'm not sure what that mission is."  What the hell is SHIELD's purpose and who elected them to do it?  Specifically, why was it their job to prevent a coup in Russia? Were they right to do so? Was that in the U.S.'s best interest? Russia's? The world's somehow? Is it just because Malick was for it?  Seriously, why the hell were they threatening US/Russian relations to run in to take sides in an internal political struggle?  Maybe they were on the side of the angels but I can't remember the show telling me why. Back around to this episode, what the hell is Lincoln supposedly pledging loyalty to? Why does he have to fight for Coulson's fatherly approval when Daisy is begged to stay after she spies on SHIELD?

 

Just after SHIELD fell, Coulson and Co still had to deal with Garrett, who was still an immediate threat that only Coulson's group knew about. And he had to figure out what was up with TAHITI. After taking care of Garrett, I'm not sure Coulson's group would have kept going after season 1 if Fury hadn't given Coulson the keys to the kingdom. At that point Coulson was tasked with getting the Helicarrier ready in case of a global emergency. He also used those resources to try to take out Hydra, which he (I think kind of rightly) considered their responsibility, as well as figure out what was going on with the alien messages in his head. And again, his group were the only ones who even knew about the alien writing to be able to do anything about it. And luckily they did go down that road, as no one else was pursuing Whitehall.

 

Basically, it started out dealing with threats only they knew about from before the fall, threats they knew more about than anyone else, and instead of just calling it a day, they decided to do something about it. They've continually been propelled by specific objectives that have led to scope creep.

 

And by the time Russia happened, SHIELD actually was working, off the books, for the US. They were pursuing Malick with the blessing of the President and unintentionally got caught up in a coup that would have destabilized Russia and made it a centralized point for Malick to consolidate his Inhuman power, which would have been bad for everyone.

[teenj12]

I thought this was a great episode. For the first time, Mack got front-burner focus, which has been so sorely needed for him. I loved that his shotgun-axe thing finally became a reality XD. I cheered so hard when he made it in the kitchen. Also, I thought this week actually did well to flesh out Lincoln's position on the team at last. I'm not a huge Lincoln fan. He's always just 'there', for me, but I thought the writing for him was better this week. 

 

I also liked the set-up for Civil War, along with the name-drops of other MCU properties/events. I also agree with others, the name-dropping was wayyy more frequent in this episode than it has been before, or at least in a while.  

[shrewd.buddha]

The site tvbythenumbers.com reported that AoS had 3.23 million viewers -- 3rd place for the hour -- behind a repeat of NCIS: NO

Someone in the comments section tallied these numbers :

SUPERHERO/COMIC SHOWS THIS WEEK

1. Supergirl (CBS) - 1.7

2. The Flash (CW) - 1.3

2. Gotham (FOX) - 1.3

4. Lucifer (FOX) - 1.2

5. Agents of SHIELD (ABC) - 1.0

6. iZombie (CW) - 0.5

Considering that AoS is in its third season, it doesn't appear as if anything is going to jump-start live audience interest. It hasn't really been boosted by the four or five very successful Marvel movies that have come out during that time.

It probably doesn't help that the Marvel movie universe treats AoS like the island of unwanted toys...

(But just wait until that Marvel Inhumans movie comes out in 2029 !! ... in which they will probably completely ignore the existence of AoS..) (just kidding about the date)

Edited March 30, 2016 by shrewd.buddha

[rab01]

Kennyab - I agree that's what the show wants to tell us; hey, they are the heroes after all.  But, you have to admit that Kitlee's list of destruction caused by SHIELD and its assets is pretty large and you could add another dozen items to that list. To go back to Russia, however, an armed raid on a military base on Russian soil is a HUGE deal. Any government agency, no matter how off the books, should need approval before acting, not forgiveness afterwards. It ends with the President in a room with the head of Russia because of the involvement of two SHIELD agents -- in other words an international incident approaching the level of the Cuban Missile Crisis except entirely secret and this was the "good" outcome of the intervention. What if SHIELD had failed? (Also, Coulson was willing to damage US/Russian relations over those two agents ... what mission did that serve again?)  Malick's inhuman sanctuary can still happen; it just won't be announced in a formal meeting between world leaders. He'll just set up deals with each government that wants to let him help.  A single compound, even under his control, that is formally "known" to the US is actually probably safer to the US than will be the real situation going forward. ...

 

Anyway, that's all just fanwankery on my part as to which option was safer or better.  It doesn't change the real issue -- what is SHIELD's mission? And what part of that mission is Lincoln supposed to place above his personal safety and the interests of of his family friends and those he loves? What or who is the sacrifice for?

[benteen]

The site tvbythenumbers.com reported that AoS  had 3.23 million viewers -- 3rd place for the hour -- behind a repeat of NCIS: NO 

 

 

Someone the comments section tallied these numbers : 

SUPERHERO/COMIC SHOWS THIS WEEK

1. Supergirl (CBS) - 1.7

2. The Flash (CW) - 1.3

2. Gotham (FOX) - 1.3

4. Lucifer (FOX) - 1.2

5. Agents of SHIELD (ABC) - 1.0

6. iZombie (CW) - 0.5

 

Considering that AoS is in its third season, it doesn't appear as if anything is going to jump-start live audience interest. It hasn't really been boosted by the four or five very successful Marvel movies that have come out during that time. 

It probably doesn't help that the Marvel movie universe treats AoS like the island of unwanted toys... 

(But just wait until that Marvel Inhumans movie comes out in 2029 !! ... in which they will probably completely ignore the existence of AoS..) (just kidding about the date)

 

The show's rating was better before the three-month hiatus (I remember is being around 1.5) but I agree, nothing is going to jump-start the interest of the live audience at this point.  Once a show absolutely sheds viewers the way that AOS did, they never get them back. 

 

The Island of Unwanted Toys is sadly a great description of the show.  I think the days of any kind of real crossover with the Marvel Cinematic Universe are long over.

[kennyab]

Well, their mission at this point is to deal with alien/Inhuman crises. That's the understanding that Coulson and the President seem to be under. Just like any other enforcement/investigative organization, those are fuzzy boundaries (which is why jurisdictional battles are such a common trope). The Watchdogs are specifically about combatting Inhumans, and their use of nitramine shows that they are clearly a real danger, so that would fit within Coulson's purview. Plus they actually destroyed an ATCU facility.

[Traveller519]

When Mack grabbed his Dad's Shotgun, I thought, "There's the Shotgun!" When he buried the cleaver in the Watchdog's skull, I knew what was coming next. Hahaha, excellent.

 

Mack's been the steadying force for so long, it was nice to see him drive the plot this go around. I really hope when he gets out of the hospital the team plays "Return of the Mack!" for him, and dancing, lots of dancing.

[rab01]

I should mention that I liked this episode and I generally have enjoyed the show since they stopped treading water waiting for Winter Soldier.

 

kennyab --- OK, cool it's "to deal with alien/inhuman crises." I agree with that.   But ...

 

What does that mean? Protect inhumans from being persecuted? Protect people from inhumans? Protect the U.S.'s interest in using inhumans as a military resource? Prevent other countries from doing the same? Prevent the U.S. from using inhumans as a military resource? Horde alien technology? Make alien technology available to the world for industrial development? Make it available only to the U.S. military? Act "ethically" in each crisis as it comes up?

 

Back when SHIELD was a big government agency on par with the CIA and NSA, it made sense because SHIELD acted within the government structure and you could have some faith that you were working for the U.S. government and its policy as set by the elected civilians. It became unmoored from that while fighting Hydra. During that fight, it's actions still made sense. Now, when SHIELD is working as a semi-recognized government agency without structures around it? It needs to figure out what they are trying to accomplish and why. 

 

That would also help the writers and the plots -- what are SHIELD's goals?  Not "beat Hydra" or "capture Malick" or "stop the watchdogs." What does SHIELD want to happen with inhumans?  (assuming that inhumans are SHIELD's primary jurisdiction)  And are those goals also our government's goals?  I bet that some of the main characters would disagree about those goals - no matter what they were.   

 

I'm not saying that I have a problem with SHIELD as the heroes of the story or with most of their actions. I also agree that when an organization targets and destroys one of your facilities, it would certainly move them up the most wanted list.  But, the show is giving us too many "complete the mission" speeches without telling us what that overarching mission is and without allowing the characters to question it either.  --- and I think that's because the writers don't know.

[KirkB]

I'll ask the same questions a different way. Let's say they beat Malick and Ward (which we know they will) and Hydra is completely, finally obliterated (which is sadly unlikely). Then what? What purpose does SHIELD serve then? The Inhumans? Finding good ones to train and stopping the bad ones? That only works so long as they are conveniently only dealing with low powered people. Since they publicly don't exist any more and can't even call on the Avengers for help in case things get really bad, there is a limit to what Sparky and Tremors can do.

 

Coulson as a middle manager thrust into a position of power is a good description. He makes mistakes because he's not as good as he thinks he is but he is also too stubborn to admit when he's made a mistake. I think it's only Clark Gregg himself that keeps me from actively disliking the character, considering some of the decisions he has made.

[ChelseaNH]

Back when SHIELD was a big government agency on par with the CIA and NSA, it made sense because SHIELD acted within the government structure and you could have some faith that you were working for the U.S. government and its policy as set by the elected civilians

 

SHIELD had the oversight of a world council; why (other than the general parochial tendencies of TV viewers) is it considered an American agency?  Okay, now it's operating under the cover of the ATCU, which is an American initiative, but that's a recent development.

[rab01]

Because in the TV show, as opposed to the movies, it is shown as being an American operation that appeared to interact with foreign agencies on an "ad-hoc friendly cooperation basis" rather than on an "official this is our turf basis." Also, the war with hydra in the TV show appeared to have them being raked over the coals by the American Government and treated as an American problem.

But you are right that the movies had a world counsel, at least with respect to the Avengers initiative. I didn't get from the movies that, if the world counsel and the US disagreed, SHIELD would answer to the counsel but that might have been the case. In any event, my issue is still their. Beforehand, it's a respected organization with a specific place in society; now what is it?